Open mike 21/12/2010

36 comments on “Open mike 21/12/2010 ”

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1. Pascal's bookie 1

   21 December 2010 at 8:22 am

   Exciting times onthe streets of ye olde london towne;

   http://leninology.blogspot.com/2010/12/edl-turns-on-students.html

   Wannabee brownshirts reckon they’ll take on black bloccers and assorted bods. I’m predicting anarcho clowns FTW.
   • Bored 1.1

     21 December 2010 at 11:25 am

     When I talk about trouble in the streets as the resource and finance crunches become evident this kind of event / noise is exactly what I mean. The stakes are going up, the returns are getting critical.
2. Marty G 2

   21 December 2010 at 8:35 am

   I moved the Hobbit comments to the new post (http://thestandard.org.nz/nats-jackson-played-us-for-fools/) so there’s not conversations in two threads to make it easier.
3. Logie97 3

   21 December 2010 at 8:48 am

   Nice to see New Zealand rugby exiles confirming stereotypes in UK rugby.
   http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/9290037.stm
   Paul Tito, Xavier Rush
   • Descendant Of Smith 3.1

     21 December 2010 at 10:33 am

     You forgot to mention the other 10 or so players involved who aren’t NZer’s – including incidents in the game where no NZer’s were involved.

     You also forgot to mention the hundreds of games where NZ players are involved with no incidents whatsoever.

     In general the stereotype of a NZ rugby player is not that they are thugs but that they are highly skilled, highly competitive, good quality rugby players. Some individuals in all countries have been a but thuggish but the typical NZ rugby player is not.

     Given the number of NZ rugby players playing overseas – at one count a few years back it was over 400 – incidents are actually few and far between.
     • Logie97 3.1.1

       21 December 2010 at 11:46 am

       @DOS. Who used the word thug? Tch tch.
       You have just confirmed another stereotype – New Zealand rugby fraternity very sensitive to comment…
       I remember being told in the 60’s, never criticise Rugby, Racing, or Beer,
       and never discuss religion, rugby or politics.

       Yesterday the RWNJ’s were defending the DB add, and now we get some sort of excuse for foul play.
       • Descendant Of Smith 3.1.1.1

         21 December 2010 at 12:39 pm

         You didn’t need to use the word thug – you highlighted foul play and said it was a stereotype – and no I’m not excusing foul play.

         What I’m pointing out is that your reference to foul play – or thuggery in my words – is not a stereotypical rugby player – however you might like your anti rugby sentiment to make it so.

         I played soccer for thirteen years and rugby for six or seven and I can assure you I saw more foul play and more abuse of referees and players – particularly racial slurs – in soccer than I ever did in rugby. That experience doesn’t make me stereotype soccer players as thugs and racists though.

         That would simply make be a idiot.
         • Logie97 3.1.1.1.1

           21 December 2010 at 3:25 pm

           Wow, more stereotyping?
           Anti-rugby? Where did that come from?
           And therefore a lover of soccer?
           Surprised you haven’t jumped to the next conclusion that I am an Aussie winding you up.

           Merry Xmas
   • Bored 3.2

     21 December 2010 at 11:32 am

     Jeez Logie, some ageing pansy Aucklander and a Taranaki ginga mashing a few Poms, they need to harden the f**k up. ‘magine what a real Red’n Black forward might do to the lilly white softies. Give ’em hell, ruck, ruck, ruck….
     PS What does stereotype mean? Im running out of syllab…syll … wot’eva!
     • Logie97 3.2.1

       21 December 2010 at 3:42 pm

       @Bored
       “Football is a gentleman’s game played by hooligans, and rugby is a hooligans’ game played by gentlemen”, or “Football – a game for gentlemen played by hooligans. Rugby – a game for hooligans played by gentlemen.” How’s that for starters…?
       • Bored 3.2.1.1

         21 December 2010 at 5:06 pm

         Well, sport is really just a form of stylised violence with the intention of destroying your opponent….rugby just happens to be bloody violent, in fact if you ever played you would know that you cant hide from the impact. Cant judge it any other way, and it may reflect our society that we are rather violent in our approach to the game (not that any body else is a shrinking violet). Spose we could be real gentlemen and throw a half kilo spherical solid object at 120 kms per hour towards a man defending himself with a thin peice of wood……..
         • Descendant Of Smith 3.2.1.1.1

           21 December 2010 at 5:49 pm

           No surprise I love cricket as well – that fine balance between individual performance and team performance – it’s well said that cricket builds character.

           I don’t get individual sports though – the idea of running or swimming for hours on end doesn’t enthuse me at all. My wife who is a swimmer doesn’t get team sports.

           I much rather see people playing than simply being spectators and fans though.
           • Bored 3.2.1.1.1.1

             21 December 2010 at 7:27 pm

             I am going to get Logie as a gentleman to umpire and adjudicate on a game of tiddliwinks between us, you are not to use Umaga tactics…its not cricket. Merry Christmas gents, may the best man win no holds barred…..

             Capcha “dubious”
             • Descendant Of Smith …

               21 December 2010 at 11:00 pm

               Something less violent please – might take an eye out!

               Merry Christmas to you all as well.
               • Logie97 …

                 22 December 2010 at 7:21 am

                 You’re up for it then.
                 Tired of flies on the wall.
                 Let’s make it escargot.

                 Time for a beer in the process. Cheers
4. Randle 4

   21 December 2010 at 10:09 am

   WikiLeaks: Pfizer Opposed New Zealand Trade Deal

   In other WikiLeaks news, newly released cables have shed more light on the pharmaceutical giant Pfizer. Last week on Democracy Now! we reported how Pfizer hired investigators to find evidence of corruption against the Nigerian attorney general to pressure him to drop legal action over fatal drug tests on Nigerian children. Now Pfizer’s actions in New Zealand have been exposed by WikiLeaks. Newly released cables show the pharmaceutical company lobbied against New Zealand getting a free trade agreement with the United States because it objected to New Zealand’s restrictive drug buying rules. In addition, cables show drug companies tried to get rid of New Zealand’s former health minister.

   http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/20/headlines#8
   • Bill 4.1

     21 December 2010 at 12:34 pm

     Randal.

     Transcripts of the cables are linked to below. On a quick first pass it makes for somewhat ironic reading. The drugs companies ranting and railing against pharmac through the connivances of the Researched Medicines Industry (RMI) merely bolster my estimation of pharmac.

     Meanwhile, he tactics of RMI are interesting.
     Remember the stramash over hercepton? And the ‘patient’ pressure group that grew up around that?

     RMI were also worried about any joint regulatory agency with Australia because direct advertising might have been banned. (They reckon it is the only way they can circumvent pharmac).

     Of a worry is the apparent stagnation of pharmac funding. Another instance of ‘starvation funding’ to precipitate a crisis that can only be rectified through allowing unfettered access for private business interests?

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10695113
5. joe90 5

   21 December 2010 at 11:29 am

   Rove Suspected In Swedish-U.S. Political Prosecution of WikiLeaks

   Karl Rove’s help for Sweden as it assists the Obama administration’s prosecution against WikiLeaks could be the latest example of the adage, “Politics makes strange bedfellows.”

   Rove has advised Swedish Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt for the past two years after resigning as Bush White House political advisor in mid-2007. Rove’s resignation followed the scandalous Bush mid-term political purge of nine of the nation’s 93 powerful U.S. attorneys.

   These days, Sweden and the United States are apparently undertaking a political prosecution as audacious and important as those by the notorious “loyal Bushies” earlier this decade against U.S. Democrats.

   More here on Rove’s association with the Swedish PM.
6. Logie97 6

   21 December 2010 at 11:50 am

   Fran O’Sullivan on Nine to Noon today. Loving the tittle-tattle of Wikileaks and looking forward to so much more coming out.

   Watch this space because, if true to form, she will soon be parroting Fox and denouncing Wikileaks and calling for prosecutions.

   Run with hares, hunt with the hounds Fran.
   • Sanctuary 6.1

     22 December 2010 at 7:45 am

     Wikileaks has shown us how the US spy network works in countries like New Zealand. O’Sullivan was busy pouring scorn on the naming of her mate Finny as an American informant, yet I now would almost guarantee she acts as a low-level informant as well and tittle-tattles to the Americans at every embassy soiree invite.

     Incidentially, what light does the fact we clearly have an informal network of US spies infesting our government and opinion makers cast on David Farrar’s constant trips to the USA, where he is hosted by hard-right Republicans?

     Wikileaks has shown that all loyal New Zealanders should have real cause to question where the loyalties of many on the right in this country really lie, and puts into context the purges required by the likes of a Chavez and Morales and others who seek to challenge the American hegemon and forge a truly independent national story.
7. Draco T Bastard 7

   21 December 2010 at 2:27 pm

   Over at NRT is More privatisation

   he government is planning to privatise ACC by opening the workforce market to competition from foreign insurance companies.

   That’s $200 million in pure wealth transfer, in the form of higher premiums, denied claims and worse service, that we will pay for the benefit of John Key’s rich mates.

   So, NACT are punishing us even more for voting for them and rewarding the rich people for being rich.
8. bobo 8

   21 December 2010 at 2:43 pm

   Paula Bennett summer plans.

   1. What are your plans for this summer?

   In between catching up on work, I plan on catching the most, and the biggest, snapper, beating all my male relatives and friends and then reminding them about it daily. I’d also like to eat so much crayfish that I’m sick of it by the end of summer.

   (like a kiwi version of “let them eat cake” )
9. Draco T Bastard 9

   21 December 2010 at 2:48 pm

   That snow outside is what global warming looks like

   There is now strong evidence to suggest that the unusually cold winters of the last two years in the UK are the result of heating elsewhere.

   So, the extreme cold spell in the UK is evidence of Anthropogenic Climate Change.
   • oscar 9.1

     21 December 2010 at 4:20 pm

     Yes… Just like AGW caused the cold spell in the 1800’s…
     • lprent 9.1.1

       21 December 2010 at 5:08 pm

       Not AGW in that time frame for the early 1800’s at the latter stages of the northern European chill down. More likely something to do with fluctuations in the flow of the gulf stream, and therefore the amount of heat flowing northwards. The natural causes of the cooler periods in the North Atlantic seem to largely be associated with that. The reasons for variations in that ocean current heat being delivered north are pretty disputed ranging from the effect of solar weather in the earlier century’s solar minima to dilution of the gulf stream with fresh water in the even earlier solar maxima. The gulf stream is normally pretty slow moving and to changing its flow rate. Read a nice simple breakdown..

       However in the current time frame there hasn’t been any reports of changes in the gulf streams flow rate or heat transport northwards to account for the current warmth in the arctic (the heat pulse from recent AGW is still flowing up the coast).

       So whilst it is a nice denier slogan for the mindless like yourself, there doesn’t appear to be much evidence that the known natural causes are causing the current Arctic warmth (and European shivering). We’ll probably find out over the next 5 years as weather patterns become statistically significant climate.
       • Oscar 9.1.1.1

         21 December 2010 at 10:27 pm

         I no longer take anything from wikipedia with any credibility since an article relating to climate change tried to use ice cores over 800,000 years. Right.

         So it’s not AGW then, it’s AGW now. Just like AGW is the cause of a decreasing antarctic ozone hole, and an increasing arctic hole?

         Absolutely nothing to do with the cyclical nature of our atmospheric conditions then. Nope, absolutely not at all.

         Never mind the fact that we’ve only just been looking at this for the last 30 years. How can we possibly know everything there is to know in our limited world view about atmospheric conditions.
         30 years is nothing more than a blink of the eye to Nature.

         The believers are becoming quite hysterical lately. Do your lynchmobs use pitchforks?
         • lprent 9.1.1.1.1

           21 December 2010 at 10:53 pm

           Do you mean this core. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070705-antarctica-ice.html

           Or the results of the paper looking at both of the cores (ummm looking for it)
           http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7193/full/nature06949.html

           Enlighten me about why you think that these cores are invalid. I haven’t had a good laugh today, at least not since redlogix pointed out the page on thermal expansion coefficients.

           But generally wikipedia is pretty accurate as an overview, which is why it is worth pointing to.

           Can’t be bothered looking at your obsession with ozone. It will be as crap as ALL of your other observations I have seen to date.

           The reason that noone can really be bothered much with you is because it is pretty clear that you don’t understand virtually anything about either the process of science, or the very materials you’re talking about. You don’t even bother to link much which makes you worse than useless.

           Some of the other ‘skeptics’ at least have enough of a basis in science that they’re fun to argue with. You on the other hand are almost a parody of a skeptic. I would guess you’d make most of the more interesting ‘skeptics’ avoid the discussions for fear of contamination.
         • Pascal's bookie 9.1.1.1.2

           21 December 2010 at 10:59 pm

           Do your lynchmobs use pitchforks?

           Mine used to. And tumbrils.

           “It’s not a proper mob unless it got a tumbril”, that’s what I always say, and “fuck”.
     • Draco T Bastard 9.1.2

       21 December 2010 at 5:45 pm

       Another one of the insane deniers (denying reality has just got to be a sign of insanity).
10. Colonial Viper 10

    21 December 2010 at 4:32 pm

    While we argue the role of Govt in economic development, Asia just does it

    The project, EduCity@Iskandar, is part of the Iskandar Malaysia development zone, a large government undertaking announced in 2006 to increase investment in the country. The entire development zone is scheduled to be completed in 2025 and will include a large manufacturing area, new financial and civic districts, a medical village, amusement parks and residential housing.

    EduCity is spread over 123 hectares, or 305 acres. It will be the base for at least seven institutions of higher learning. The purpose of EduCity is to offer world-class universities. The plan includes a sports complex with a stadium, as well as an international students village that will offer housing to 4,000 students. The entire development zone covers about 222,000 hectares.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/world/asia/20iht-educSide.html?ref=global-home
11. Deadly_NZ 11

    21 December 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Here’s somethiing to make you sick!!

    Nice to see someone can afford the cray’s

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/twelve-days-of-christmas/kiwi-celebs-christmas/4480518/All-Paula-Bennett-wants-for-Christmas-is-SBW
    • Logie97 11.1

      21 December 2010 at 7:20 pm

      I wonder who will be checking that she and her brothers keep to the daily quota regarding the snapper.

      Pigging out on crayfish has its health hazards as well.
12. Deadly_NZ 12

    21 December 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Anyone seen this place???

    http://rightwingnews.com/

    looks like Sarah Palin’s fav place they were calling for assange’s execution so some radical right reading for your pleasure
13. Pascal's bookie 13

    22 December 2010 at 12:22 am

    Couple of quotes from some right wing rags.

    Quote the first; about touted presidential candidate Haley Barbour talkin bout growin up in Mississippi during the civil rights era:

    Both Mr. Mott and Mr. Kelly had told me that Yazoo City was perhaps the only municipality in Mississippi that managed to integrate the schools without violence. I asked Haley Barbour why he thought that was so.

    “Because the business community wouldn’t stand for it,” he said. “You heard of the Citizens Councils? Up north they think it was like the KKK. Where I come from it was an organization of town leaders. In Yazoo City they passed a resolution that said anybody who started a chapter of the Klan would get their ass run out of town. If you had a job, you’d lose it. If you had a store, they’d see nobody shopped there. We didn’t have a problem with the Klan in Yazoo City.”

    In interviews Barbour doesn’t have much to say about growing up in the midst of the civil rights revolution. “I just don’t remember it as being that bad,” he said. “I remember Martin Luther King came to town, in ’62. He spoke out at the old fairground and it was full of people, black and white.”

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/boy-yazoo-city_523551.html?page=3

    Don’t it sound civil. Them ‘Citizens Councils’. They’d be ‘White Citizens Councils’ (WCC), as it happens.

    Quote the second; from a commentary article written by a Mr David Halberstam a way back in 1956

    Since its formation, the Clifford Council has met regularly once a month, with speakers drawn from a pool maintained by the state WCC. Among its accomplishments was the spreading of rumors to the effect that two of Clifford’s most prosperous Negroes, a chicken farmer and a bricklayer, were members of NAACP. A full-scale boycott never developed, although the amount of business done by the chicken farmer and the bricklayer fell off about 40 per cent. But that was precisely the original purpose of the rumors.

    Apart from this, the Council placed two men with the circuit clerk to test the eligibility of voters when an election was held in February for a vacant city council post. Earlier the word had been passed along —for the first time in years—that Negroes would not be welcome and only about nine showed up. I asked the clerk if they voted.

    “Well no, we tested them pretty hard on the Constitution,” he said. “We suggested first that they didn’t really want to vote this time, but if they insisted, we gave them the usual test and asked a few questions. We asked them who fired first at Lexington, the British or the Americans. If a nigger said British,” he grinned, “we told him it was the Americans. If he said Americans, we told him it was the British.”

    I asked him who did shoot first.

    “Hell, I don’t know, but it worked. You should have seen those niggers shuffle off.”

    But the main and most effective weapon of the WCC has been economic pressure. For a militant organization which sees itself as law-abiding and which is fearful of using violence, this is an ideal solution, for it permits aggressive action without disturbing the peace.

    “Look,” said Nick Roberts of the Yazoo City Citizens Council, explaining why 51 of 53 Negroes who had signed an integration petition withdrew their names, “if a man works for you, and you believe in something, and that man is working against it and undermining it, why you don’t want him working for you—of course you don’t.”

    In Yazoo City, in August 1955, the Council members fired signers of the integration petition, or prevailed upon other white employers to get them fired. But the WCC continues to deny that it uses economic force: all the Council did in Yazoo City was to provide information (a full-page ad in the local weekly listing the “offenders”); spontaneous public feeling did the rest.

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/the-white-citizens-councils-br-respectable-means-for-unrespectable-ends-2460

    He’s just a good ol’ boy.
    • lprent 13.1

      22 December 2010 at 7:04 am

      Classic..

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