Hang in there Simon! Just remember, Bill led the party to a vote share of 20.93% yet he went on to become Prime Munster. Helen had 6 years of lousy polling and one lost election before she succeeded. You can do it, Simon. Have faith and tough it out!
One immediate potential application that comes to mind is precision application of agrichemicals. Instead of spraying massive amounts of fertilizer or pesticide or weedkillers indiscriminately, send a bunch of robospots out to just do spot applications wherever needed.
and crowd control (there they can spray the nasty chemicals), or maybe replace wardens and turn keys in prisons, oh my gosh the applications for spotty the robot dog are endless and we don't even need to walk him or feed him.
As an introvert, I'm finding the new social acceptability of distancing to be the best thing ever. So I'm struggling to come up with any objection to what's happening in your two links.
Yeah. When they take over, I'm really going to miss the dulcet tones of small petrol engines and large diesels. All lacking effective mufflers on their exhausts.
Another aspect is that these could improve productivity in tropical agriculture which has traditionally been limited by the intensive labour needed for the crops grown in these climates.
That could conceivably change the prospects for chronically poor nations like the Phillipines.
I think it would be difficult to replace humans in agriculture, without inviting a world of trouble .
We already reap the bitter rewards of factory farming
There's a true stewardship of the soil thats not just about inputs and outputs , spraying for pests and diseases etc , as if the earth is a mechanical being
Regenerative agriculture depends on acute observation over time ,and an intuitive "learning" of each complex environment
Only humans can have the serendipitous moments necessary
I totally understand what you are saying; it makes sense and I've no argument. I wasn't imagining humans being replaced. As an automation engineer I've had the chance to see the impact up close and personal’ and everything I’ve seen is that automation works to amplify and assist human capacity. It has no independent existence.
In my view no automation or AI system will ever replace human consciousness. Superhuman AI will turn out to be one of what Vernor Vinge called 'the failed dreams'.
Where machines shine is being able to do the simple routine tasks that are able to be condensed into an algorithm. Thereby freeing up time for humans to be able to do more observing, learning, and synthesis of new and different ways of doing things.
I really don't get the whole automation ideology. Let's use that where appropriate, but there's nothing wrong with people doing things. Lots of people love growing food (and I assume love working on ships), so why not take advantage of that and design systems that are good for people and are functional.
In reality they haven't even developed controls and machinery, that can get reliably through a day, without human intervention.
I once got a major water treatment plant to run autonomously for 9 days without operator intervention … it was quite an accomplishment!
But in general you are right, and it's my view that the prime role of automation is to reliably control the routine, predictable tasks and free up the humans involved so that they can focus their much more flexible and creative energies on higher value add.
Autopilots are a good example you will familiar with, no-one hand steers any more than they have to or enjoy doing these days. And the modern versions do a better job of holding track than a human anyway. On the other hand deciding where the track should be plotted still remains a task better suited to people. Usually.
RL Now that's a point. The temp is said to be going beyond what humans can cope with working in the fields growing food, and can’t do enough with new tech or have enough covers, already is in India etc. So robots to do that would make sense. Unfortunately, the way our 'civilisation' is configured these days, the good of robotising will be compromised by the attack/defence capabilities. But what can't be cured must be endured perhaps.
What about thoughts of having city lawn clippings as base for silage for farmers? Ever pursued that idea gsays, it would have to be planned, done carefully, a range of weeds kept out and no spraying, and people take responsibility but it could mean free lawn mowing for them.
Rather than silage, I investigated and proposed composting of grass clippings, leaf mulch, tree trimmings and the kitchen scraps.
The compost would be returned to the sub standard soil that is found in most new housing developments.
Long story short (too late!), the residents had concerns about appearances, smell and rats. The management didn't see the benefits…. I have walked this earth long enough to try and convince folk against their will.
Every time I tip another catcher full of clippings into the skip bin, a little part of me dies. Then the last two frosty mornings the bin has been toasty warm with the decomposition starting up.
I read a while back that the DCC had bought a remote control lawnmower – still needed a remote control unit run by an operator, but it was intended to make mowing slopes safer. Ah, here we are.
The fun question is "if the drone controls the mowers, what controls how the drone controls the mowers?"
Not sure I like the idea of autonomous mowers – we don't need to give our robots-gone-berserk edged weapons. Very sci-fi peasant revolt, that.
Ha. Reminds me of my Dad telling us, about the self propelled mower that got away from him, and ended up drowned in the Avon. Briggs and Stratton petrol reel mower, of course.
More recently the automated straddle carrier, that made a bid for freedom in a Dutch port. Through the gate and down the street.
My own favourite machinery with a life of their own, are Lister and Gardener diesels, that have to be thoroughly suffocated to get them to stop. Unlike modern ones, where one dud chip on an electronics board can kill them
Easier to train as long as your willing to lose a bunch of fingers getting there.
The SawStop works by running a small electric current through the saw blade and detecting when its interrupted by an electrically conductive body part.
There are 10 table saw amputations a day in the US.
" After numerous tests using a hot dog as a finger-analog, in spring 2000, Gass conducted the first test with a real human finger: he applied Novocain to his left ring finger, and after two false starts, he placed his finger into the teeth of a whirring saw blade. The blade stopped as designed, and although it "hurt like the dickens and bled a lot," his finger remained intact."
sends a shudder down the spine.
I have gone to a mates workshop to find doors open, blood spattered table saw outside and no-one around.
Metalheads, my first thought too, brilliant episode, brilliant series. Check out Black Mirrors creator Charlie Brookers Anti Viral Wipe (about UKs response to pandemic) on YouTube for a good laugh and also quite insightful.
I've been a fan of Charlie Brooker's since he wrote for nerdy games mag, PC Zone during the '90s. He's viciously hilarious and his books are great. They should really make him PM.
Might not be age-appropriate for the TS audience, but after having and reading the Harry Potter series to four children – (should have bought Stephen Fry's audiobooks when they came out) your Grim reference immediately struck me as appropriate.
" The Grim is an omen of death, which is reputed to bring about the demise of the person who encounters it. The Grim takes the shape of a large, black, menaching, spectral dog. "
(BTW: Still trying to keep the offspring reading. Just bought two Terry Pratchett novels for the nineteen year old's birthday next week. It's a shared enjoyment.)
Pratchett is wonderful; he's the only other author I still keep a full collection of every published novel I could buy. (The other is of course Vernor Vinge.)
My first read was the Peace War trilogy which I'd imagine would appeal to a young adult. Then there is the Zone of Thought series starting with A Fire Upon the Deepthat I regard as absolute scifi masterpieces, but are longer reads.
Can't go wrong by reading Pratchett Red. I like the Big Bang Theory in one of his Disc world novels. Mort I think. I have it somewhere, will have to have a read of it again.
The wonderful Bob Clarkson (former MP) was just on the radio nationale. Said Todd is the equal of Simon, and would definitely be better than the "communist" currently in charge.
Thank you Bob, for capturing the mood of the nation…
Last time I looked, there was no nationalisation of businesses without compensation, collectivisation of land and agriculture or even purges of those seen as enemies of the state, unless you count Mike Hosking leaving 7 Sharp.
People need to start calling the likes of Clarkson out.
A quick Google of 'Bob Clarkson MP' found that he had been called out by quite a few people in the media.
Issues with Bob the Builder involved anti-gay and anti Muslim comments, stoushes with family over money, blaming people who lived near industrial sites for complaining about heath problems from dust.
Now we find he doesn't like our "Communist" PM even though he does call by her first name. I presume that local National people called him out because he only had one term as Tauranga MP. Later news said he was leaving to join ACT.
After all these years, a one term wonder is called back to comment on Bridges and Muller on RNZ. I listened to the interview. It's an interesting interview from the point of view of personal values and political support.
RNZ did neither Muller or Bridges a favour by allying such support to them from this man.
"Our rights are being violated. That is all actually real," Stokes said. "But this is one of the few times that's ok. Pandemics – these call for a collectivist response. They don't work without one." An American gun rights activist gets it, the people calling Labour communist don't.
I remember it was a trap lefties got into when National/Key were flying high, disparaging their supporters as stupid etc, I see it with the righties now, didn't work for us and shouldn't for them either.
Also, I watched the One News last night, first time in years, and I waited to see what the Muller guy was gonna be like, and they had no footage, just some friends saying he wss a good "bugger" & that "maoris stole his flash sandwiches at school", or something.
One last thing, to me the Labour numbers proves no one is listening to Hosking, Garner etc or reading the Herald.
Who thought it was a good idea to put him up to give public comment and use airtime? He's a has been of the worst sort and his opinion as irrelevant as most of the public. It smacks of irresponsible journalists. What is national radio's guidelines for selecting commentators?
A Danish bank has launched the world’s first negative interest rate mortgage – handing out loans to homeowners where the charge is minus 0.5% a year.
Negative interest rates effectively mean that a bank pays a borrower to take money off their hands, so they pay back less than they have been loaned.
Jyske Bank, Denmark’s third largest, has begun offering borrowers a 10-year deal at -0.5%, while another Danish bank, Nordea, says it will begin offering 20-year fixed-rate deals at 0% and a 30-year mortgage at 0.5%.
Under its negative mortgage, Jyske said borrowers will make a monthly repayment as usual – but the amount still outstanding will be reduced each month by more than the borrower has paid.
“We don’t give you money directly in your hand, but every month your debt is reduced by more than the amount you pay,” said Jyske’s housing economist, Mikkel Høegh.
In recognition of how puzzling the new mortgage is for customers, the bank’s FAQ is littered with questions and statements such as Hvordan kan det lade sig gøre? (How is that possible?) and Ja, du læste rigtigt (Yes, you read that right).
The mortgage is possible because Denmark, as well as Sweden and Switzerland, has seen rates in money markets drop to levels that turn banking upside-down.
Høegh said Jyske Bank is able to go into money markets and borrow from institutional investors at a negative rate, and is simply passing this on to its customers.
But the flipside is that savers will see nothing paid in interest on their deposits – and may also suffer as they go negative."
I'm thinking there may be benefits for this happening in New Zealand.
1. Palatable or not, those best able to weather the financial implications of Covid will most often be those who have the excess income, and ability to amass savings. They will not gain interest but they will also retain equity on their savings, unless the savings are more than a specified amount, such as in Sweden:
Those implications may mean that those with money may choose to invest in businesses or spend it which will circulate that money and improve the economy recovery.
2. For mortgage holders, this will allow a practical relief from the financial commitment of a mortgage, while still maintaining a payment relationship with their bank. It may be able – in many cases – to offset financial hardship resulting from reduced pay or unemployment.
3. A further benefit is, that if housing prices fall significantly (which would be a huge benefit to society) those who have entered the market lately, when it is most inflated, will have a reduced payment for the rest of the mortgage, offsetting a larger amount of equity loss than those who are at the end of their mortgages.
That is, if a mortgage has been taken out for $500,000 today and goes for twenty years at 4.0% paid weekly, the interest paid over that time is $226,569 accounting for just over 31% If of payments during that time. (NB: I used the stuff mortgage calculator for these calculations)
If that mortgage is transferred to what the Jyse bank offers there are two options:
a. Keep the 20 year term and reduce the weekly payment to $481
b: Retain your existing weekly payment of $699 and reduce your term to 14 years.
c: A combination of either above.
This is a reduction of around 30% of current mortgage commitments on offer. This provides a cushion for house prices to fall – 20-25% or more without causing excessive financial harm for home owners and tenants.
For me, the elegance of this proposal is that those who are at the end of their mortgages – and will not gain as much benefit as those at the beginning – will have, during their mortgage term have already accumulated untaxed, and inflated capital gains so their direct investment will still be higher than what they have contributed. In fact, any mortgage transferring over will have built into it a proportional cost/benefit that relates to the loss of equity if house prices fall vs the reduction in interest payable on that property.
I am coming from the perspective that house prices and rental costs need to fall significantly – and have needed to for a while. I also understand that many NZers have all their financial wealth and security in their homes, and need to be considered.
I would like to see our government administer or legislate for such a solution.
Ideally, it would be a government agency, such as the State Advances Corporation that provided home loans to ex-servicemen.
To facilitate rollout it may be necessary to provide in tranches depending on owner/occupier and citizenship status. I'd personally delay offering to family trusts or LLC's or overseas residents because their choice of vehicle provides them with some insulation from taxes, expense and financial shocks already.
I'd be interested to hear from others about problems they can see with this proposal, to see if there are any kinks that needed to be worked out if it was to be a practical and possible option.
(Quick correction: Just noticed the -0.5% bank rate only applies to 10 years and I used it for the whole 20 yr term, which is only offered at 0%. Will update on next comment)
Hi Molly, it's a trend to watch for sure. When I grew up & got a savings account the bank paid me 3% interest to deposit money in it. Banking then had a structural incentive to get more custom. We may be returning to it!
John Campbell interviewed a young asian guy who spoke our lingo like a kiwi a few days ago, about quantitative easing. He was representing the Reserve Bank on the TVNZ breakfast show. They've recently doubled their qe. He said the new money gets created as electronic credit (which I knew), which would have confounded many viewers but he was refreshingly forthright and sensible in not spooking them by calling those dollars imaginary. They become real when digitally invented.
So the way to keep the economy going now is to invent money. Farmers could use this thinking in times of drought, eh? Invent rain. How? Well, easiest way is to catch and store it when it falls. They could call that process water conservation. Conservatives ought to conserve, eh? You'd think. The reason farmers don't is because they believe rain always falls eventually. As Tom Petty once sang "the waiting is the hardest part"…
Catching and storing rain is fine for targeted irrigation but the dam needs to be half the size of the farm for an effective grazing regime. And it does rain most of the time.
The numbers around volume and weight for just 20mm on a thousand hectare farm are astronomical. Clever farming is a better option.
I think the most important thing to understand about all this stuff was highlighted to me simply by the US economist Randell Wray (and recently I heard this idea repeated by the US Fed chairman in a public interview where he encouraged the US treasury to spend more).
The statement (miss-quoted) is "the central bank lends and the treasury spends". Treasury spending gets spending moving including when facilitated by central QE programs to lower the government interest rates, but all the monetary policy stuff done by the central bank is about changing the interest rates and so all depends on the amount of interest in taking on loans.
Using that analogy, I would say that would require the government to direct the rain to fall more equitably, instead of providing torrential downpours on dams and giving the control to commercial banks and saying turn the taps on as you wish. (Or don't.)
A post about many of the incorrect things you will hear said about government spending and its impacts on the economy. In this case highlighting that the Bank of England is presently falsifying many of these ideas.
That's a very interesting thing to observe, seeing this in practice doesn't make much sense to me however.
Negative interest rates (which I believe Sweden's central bank is running) mean that the banks deposits with the central bank lose money. Collectively there is no way for the financial sector to rid itself of these excess deposits (other than lending them to the government) as any payments they make then go to another large financial institution. The upshot of this is that government debt often ends up lending at negative interest rates which are however lower than what the central bank is offering.
This is what is going on with the charges banks are setting for holding onto large deposits.
What makes little sense to me however is public loans at negative interest rates, and I suspect there is some missing piece such as a small number of these loans are made as an advertising ploy by the bank. The reason I understand things this way is because the interest component paid on a loan is basically the income part of the arrangement for the bank. If there is negative income to the arrangement then it makes little sense to enter into the loan agreement. Maybe Jyske bank is simply leading the pack in this case, but if all the banks are doing this then collectively it seems to make more sense to get out of the banking game.
Your concerns are already covered in the comment, Nic. This is about ensuring everyone gets through intact. No interest on deposits does not remove equity, just encourages direct investment and spending.
" Maybe Jyske bank is simply leading the pack in this case, but if all the banks are doing this then collectively it seems to make more sense to get out of the banking game. "
Banks still can charge fees, as I believe Jyske does, but not excessively. Long-time the banks will be able to survive, and their chance of survival improves if the majority of their customers are financially secure. But we have businesses – banks included – that are not used to long-term thinking.
And why can't the government play the game to benefit all NZers?
Molly, I'm not saying it would be a bad thing if this happened. I just think its unlikely to be something which can be setup as a widespread part of the financial system, as your expecting banks to engage in widespread unprofitable lending. The long term thinking on that game is to stop being in the business of banking.
I did consider that this can be a way to shrink the financial system which might be a good thing to do to some extent. I do think this aligns with something which seems to be not widely understood, but low (or even negative) interest rates are actually less favorable to banks than the high interest rates, which are supposed to be restraining their lending.
I understand. But I'm not worried about the banks incentives. So, far the banks are not offering anything that doesn't improve their income substantially in the long term – which the mortgage holidays do. What the rent holidays don't necessarily do – is improve the financial security and well being of their clients.
So, I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of the people of NZ, taking into account the inflated cost of housing that has continued not to be addressed, AND the NZ cultural attachment to housing as financial security. That is the problem I'm talking about and trying to address – not how to retain the bank as a commercial entity.
The facts became somewhat more clear when I read the guardian article in full. First its a Danish bank (which I was calling Swedish) and second the banks still make profit on the loans due to the associated fees.
I suspect that in their banking system these fees are much higher than in New Zealand which has a much higher rate difference between the central bank (and money market interest rates) and commercial bank interest rates. In New Zealand the fees component is typically very small and often waived. This structure makes the New Zealand banks profitability much more opaque.
I would suggest that to gain the social benefits the overall cost of lending is what is relevant rather than the specifics of only some of interest rates and costs involved in the lending.
"I would suggest that to gain the social benefits the overall cost of lending is what is relevant rather than the specifics of only some of interest rates and costs involved in the lending. "
I agree, and we need to start quantifying those benefits by some means in order to know where to rebuild the economy and support NZers. SROI (Social Return on Investment) has been around for a while now, but is not often referred to in policy statements or media articles while expected returns from events such as the America's Cup are calculated and accepted without much scrutiny.
I guess – without going into the role of the central bank – any single bank would make money by taking a deposit of $10k and then repaying $9500. It loans the $10k on mortgage but receives repayments of say $9700. So it would still have a $200 margin. I made the figures up for the above.
Absolutely. As I highlighted in other comments in Denmark they pay a lot more in fees (including an annual percentage of the loan, as a fee), in New Zealand all the payments are rolled into interest rates, so by focusing on just the interest rates this is a bit miss leading when compared to New Zealand.
Yes, I understand that as well. Which is why I have suggested a Government run system that reduces those costs as much as possible.
The banks have been very profitable and have no incentive to reduce their income from clients or reducing the inflated housing costs. They are financially better off when these are as high as possible.
A government agency – however – can consider SROI when calculating cost/benefit and a create a system that does not need mortgage brokers and refixing every two-three years. A young relative working for one of the big four banks in the mortgage lending department receives quarterly bonuses in the tens of thousands for the process of refixing existing loans or signing up new ones. There's a lot of extraneous extras that are lost when a constant long-term loan at a fixed rate is entered into.
"Swiss banks are to start charging their super-rich clients to look after their piles of cash.
UBS, the world’s largest wealth manager, told its ultra-wealthy clients on Tuesday that it would introduce an annual 0.6% charge on cash savings of more than €500,000 (£461,000). The fee, to be introduced in November, rises to 0.75% on savings of more than 2m Swiss francs (£1.7m).
The minimum fee is €3,000 a year. Savings of 2m francs would attract an annual charge of 15,000 francs."
In terms of addressing the mechanisms that produce inequality, this may also go some way to improve it. At a certain point when you have met all your financial requirements to live, and have saved enough to be secure, the current financial environment allows wealth to multiply and accumulate.
Note: The Jyske bank also charges fees that cover admin and employment costs, but they are not excessive.
Following the discussion with RedLogix above the following thoughts from the character of Samuel Vines seem appropriate:
“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet."
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.” – Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play
Already thought of a possible improvement while AFK:
IF landlords on a property take this option, they have to take the same term and the reduced payment amount and pass on at least 80% of that saving to the tenants. That would reduce financial rental pressure immediately.
I would expect quite a lot of turmoil for both homeowners, landlords and tenants that are financially stressed, and this mechanism might be a way of providing security in terms of housing without a lot of changes in ownership. (As well as providing a needed downwards pressure on housing and rental prices)
“Negative rates are a very slow way of unwinding the effects of QE…. especially at -0.5%.”
And why is slow considered a negative? This does allow a downward movement in housing prices and rentals – at -0.5% a 31% neutral position compared to maintaining the same mortgage at the current 4%.
Given the love affair and financial security many NZers have with property, we need a plan to allow many to still feel and be financially secure while creating a more affordable housing environment for all.
Any other ideas on how to do that would be great… because many have been waiting quite a while to access housing that is affordable and healthy without needing to overcrowd…
Thousands of under-utilised Air BnB properties, high and increasing unemployment, increasing State housing provision will drive it…..the same forces that will drive down property prices.
Slow is considered negative because the need is now….the tenants and mortgagees cannot wait years or decades for the ratios to begin to become aligned with the real economy again.
The RBNZ backstopping the banks is (I expect) designed to support that deflation while enabling bank viability….it would not surprise to see them take on the bad loan books of the banks and administer those mortgages in the near term to remove them from the private balance sheets. Hopefully they will have a mechanism to support owner occupied to continue and foreclose investment properties.
The mechanism you state, which is left to circumstance and commercial entities, will disrupt a lot of homeowners, landlords and tenants. The disruption may also continue for some time, and will result in NZers losing out – not banks who have benefitted from increasing debt levels for many years now. It just depends on where priorities lie.
There will also be a fast response time to reduced mortgages – for financially strapped owners and tenants.
If your housing costs are reduced immediately by 20-30% to offset the financial downturn and resulting constricting household incomes, then there is less likely to be disruption by the need to move or sell – AND find somewhere else to live. (Although, I think there still will be disruption and devastation, just perhaps reduced)
I do agree that the state has to be more involved to direct the fallout, and ensure long-term benefits to NZers.
negative rates won't create that scale or speed of reduction (immediate)…and as stated the reduction is going to occur anyway, negative rates or not.
And negative rates create other problems that make the whole regime problematic.
The mechanism I outlined is hardly left to commercial entities and circumstance (market forces) for it involves market intervention by the state…..and its not as if it hasn't been done before.
Back in the 80s high interest rate environment the government offered Housing Corp mortgages at considerably below market rate to distressed mortgages for owner occupiers….the mechanism may be different this time but the result will be the same.
P.S. disruption is not going to be avoided no matter what is done.
" Back in the 80s high interest rate environment the government offered Housing Corp mortgages at considerably below market rate to distressed mortgages for owner occupiers….the mechanism may be different this time but the result will be the same. "
What was the result from your perspective? Because the government also offered low rates to returned servicemen, and increased home ownership and security was also a result.
And, without rancour.. do you have any ideas about reducing the fallout without just allowing the market to crash? Another concern I have about that passive method is that on top of financial and housing disruption, it also reduces the likelihood of investment in improving housing stock standards, and our housing stock is still often disgracefully low in this regard.
(Already conceded disruption will occur, just looking to reduce the impact, while supporting NZ people – not entities)
"What was the result from your perspective? Because the government also offered low rates to returned servicemen, and increased home ownership and security was also a result."
When the mortgage we had taken out at 8% hit 19% we applied for a housing corp refinance and from memory the rate was 11%…and the term extended to 24 years (greater than available in the market)…the result was we didn't lose our home.
"And, without rancour.. do you have any ideas about reducing the fallout without just allowing the market to crash?"
The market is going to crash whether we like it or not…the only question is by how much. I have outlined how I believe the RBNZ will reduce the fallout….remember they are required by statute to ensure the stability of the banking system but they have also stated the property ratios are unsustainable and create instability so really their options are very limited.
And if they bail out investors (in both residential and commercial) they create the same problem for themselves that the Fed did with their QE programme….they become captured by the underwrite and cannot withdraw it….which ultimately runs counter to their charter.
"another concern I have about that passive method is that on top of financial and housing disruption, it also reduces the likelihood of investment in improving housing stock standards, and our housing stock is still often disgracefully low in this regard."
Gov is partially addressing this with increased social housing build and the improving standards can be covered by increased trades training though its not a given….there is room for much more particularly in regard to CC and density as Susan Krumdieck promotes.
I'm someone who thinks the inflated housing prices do need to come down – both for purchase and for rent.
The question is: Can this be equity adjustment occur WHILE still allowing people to live in and retain their current housing? You seem prepared to let the market which has failed us in terms of providing homes, crash AND then provide them.
You also seem to suggest you would support govt loans only for homeowners, but I don't think that would deflate the housing market substantially. Significantly, tenants would be delayed in receiving any benefit.
I would have landlords who don't use alternative entity vehicles such as trusts, or LLC's to be the next in line for government mortgages after owner occupiers.
Only if there was a capacity left, would you include commercial entities that trade in housing and rentals. I would also not offer the facility to overseas investors or non NZ citizens.
The current social housing programme is going to take a while to come online, and is inadequate unless you are counting on a vast load of properties to come on the market at diminished prices. Which while beneficial in terms of stock numbers, will have an ignored human cost to it, that might be avoided if some direct action is taken.
As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants.
"The question is: Can this be equity adjustment occur WHILE still allowing people to live in and retain their current housing? You seem prepared to let the market which has failed us in terms of providing homes, crash AND then provide them."
You appear to misunderstand …the equity adjustment is going to occur….and as it does we can (and I suspect will) provision home owners to remain in their homes.
"You also seem to suggest you would support govt loans only for homeowners, but I don't think that would deflate the housing market substantially. Significantly, tenants would be delayed in receiving any benefit."
Support for homeowners is correct….if you include provision for investors you are placing the floor under the market and encourage the lending…the deflation will occur because homeowners do not require a return…it is somewhere to live…whereas investors require the return to justify the investment.
Serviceability is the key
"I would have landlords who don't use alternative entity vehicles such as trusts, or LLC's to be the next in line for government mortgages after owner occupiers."
They can be next in line…but if the gov says sorry nothing for you then the deflation occurs….there is a disincentive for banks to provide finance.
"Only if there was a capacity left, would you include commercial entities that trade in housing and rentals. I would also not offer the facility to overseas investors or non NZ citizens. "
It is not a question of capacity…the Govs ability to finance is unlimited (if we ignore future impact) …it is what is the desired outcome…commercial property is also overvalued and over leveraged…..it cannot be subsidised as that creates disconnects and disconnects from the real economy are the problem.
"the current social housing programme is going to take a while to come online, and is inadequate unless you are counting on a vast load of properties to come on the market at diminished prices. Which while beneficial in terms of stock numbers, will have an ignored human cost to it, that might be avoided if some direct action is take"
Yes the social housing will take time and in one respect I think the gov foolish to build when they could buy cheaply existing properties (there was no shortage of houses, only a shortage of affordable housing) But there are positives to building social housing including training, employment and new technology (or systems)
"As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants."
And why would an investor do that?…the incentives are to quit as they are now.
Social housing opposed to state housing helps to maintain inflated housing prices.
Supporting landlords while requiring them to pass on the savings to their tenants, will still allow the market to deflate while allowing the high proportion of tenanted NZers to stay in their current housing if it is still the most appropriate for them.
You seem to expect the market which has failed, to crash, and then as it recovers – somehow do what it has failed to do in the past. Our housing situation requires a stronger government intervention to solve. Social housing programmes won't be the solution.
"As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants."
And why would an investor do that?…the incentives are to quit as they are now.
Well, aren't all landlords in it for the business of providing housing at a profit and not capital gains? (/sarc) In essence, their profits won't be adversely affected – their income would reduce, but so would their expenses. The return should be equitable with pre-Covid.
I'm advocating a bottom-up approach. What do the NZ people need. We need to be housed, fed and supported – then employed. The current social housing plan is not going to cut it, it was ineffective to address the real housing issues before, and it will not deliver now.
"Social housing opposed to state housing helps to maintain inflated housing prices"
.Not sure your definition of social housing is the norm…social housing INCLUDES state housing, community and emergency housing.
"Supporting landlords while requiring them to pass on the savings to their tenants, will still allow the market to deflate while allowing the high proportion of tenanted NZers to stay in their current housing if it is still the most appropriate for them"
Supporting them how?…..and tenants can remain in their current housing (if they so desire) if the landlord changes…the property remains.
"You seem to expect the market which has failed, to crash, and then as it recovers – somehow do what it has failed to do in the past. Our housing situation requires a stronger government intervention to solve. Social housing programmes won't be the solution."
You continue misunderstand what I am outlining….'the market will do what the market does , and currently it is in a deflationary environment….the state intervention (or not) is crucial to the desired outcome…as it always was, its just that in the recent past the intervention was considered undesired
"The World Bank also says this ratio is "possibly the most important summary measure of housing market performance, indicating not only the degree to which housing is affordable by the population, but also the presence of market distortions".
Based on this official work, it seems to have become accepted that a median multiple of 3.0 times or less is a very good marker for housing affordability. Much of the work in support of the 3x standard is based on US research on the US housing market"
Sweden now has the highest coronavirus death rate in the world per capita over the last week after continuing to shun lockdown.
The government has insisted that its softer approach to dealing with the pandemic will pay off in the long run as restaurants, bars and businesses remain open.
But over the last seven days, Sweden had an average of 6.08 deaths per million inhabitants – more than any other country in the world.
This is in comparison to 5.57 in the UK, 4.28 in Belgium, 4.11 in the US, 2.62 in Spain, 2.29 in Italy, and 2.26 in France.
Many of these other countries saw far more virus deaths earlier in the pandemic, but managed to bring down the numbers with strict lockdown measures.
There's some kind of mental disconnect going on between an expected 25% antibody rate, or even a 7% antibody rate, and a reported population case rate of 0.3%.
Evidently they are putting a lot of hope into the asymptomatic infection and transmission rate being orders of magnitude higher than detected case rate. But that hope isn't supported by data from places where extensive testing of contacts is carried out (such as New Zealand), which shows that true asymptomatic cases are a small fraction of the number of symptomatic cases.
Given that most reports of antibody tests highlight the fact that most tests have a very high false positive rate, the likeliest explanation is that even the 7% at the end of April is a gross overestimate of how many have actually been exposed. Which in turn suggests that the voluntary physical distancing the Swedes have done has successfully flattened the curve, but they are just somewhere near the start of a very long broad peak of the curve.
Which in turn suggests that the voluntary physical distancing the Swedes have done has successfully flattened the curve, but they are just somewhere near the start of a very long broad peak of the curve.
That was my reading of it this morning as well. Covid-19 simply isn’t as infectious as originally anticipated, or it doesn’t cause the immune system to generate antibodies unless symptoms are severe or ….
But as was obvious from the start – this isn’t a standard disease
Covid-19 simply isn’t as infectious as originally anticipated
My sense is that infection spreading is mainly due to large groups getting close together and making loud noises at each other. Choir practice, bars, weddings, noisy restaurants etc. Those appear to have been the superspreading events. Then once those events stopped, and very basic precautions against spreading started, it took a lot of close personal contact for most new infections.
It kind of makes a mockery of the idea of an R0 number when most infection spread is due to a few discrete superspreading events, each resulting in a large but random number of transmissions. Rather than the picture implied by an R0 number, which suggests each infection likely passes it on to two or three other people .(or twenty in the case of measles in an unprotected population).
I looked into typical infection models of the kind being used to discuss policy (the SIR form) and was astounded by how unrealistically simplistic they are. While its possible to understand they are modelling a process like viral spread its always going to be questionable if they are making a reasonable forecast, specifically as the outbreak occurs people will and have been naturally socially distance themselves from others (people automatically out less and take more precautions), but the assumption seems to be a static R0 throughout any forecast which doesn't respond to the outbreak.
I vaguely recall talk about a review into the Covid 19 responses by DHBs after complaints about lack of surgical equipment and PPEs in some parts of the country. I can't remember the actual specifics.
That was annoying. Software security update reboot. It found a configuration issue from the operating system update earlier in the week. Set the IP incorrectly.
One interesting aspect of the lockdown,and spending constraints is that NZ has reduced both its use of credit cards,and paid off over the last 2 months 1.5 billion of interest bearing credit card debt.
It sucks to be visa . Wonder what the impact is on the balance of payments and how much less is going to overseas as profit and fees. I'm assuming the local banks provide the capital circulated but I don't really know how it works in the background.
Another random thought – so far banks and credit card companies seem to have made up the fraud losses. that happen but with the changing banking enviroment will security become a higher profile activity?
How many times has James moved on since then? More recently (January 2020) our very own leader of the opposition Simon Bridges had reacquired James' favour.
"i (as stated prev) stopped my regular donations to national telling the office that I would not restart while Bridges was leader.
but he’s won me over and I have started donating again."
But I suspect that’s not how James rolls. Perhaps Todd Muller's looking pretty charismatic to James "at the moment". Ah James, ever the fair-weather admirer.
look at you – searching back and spending time searching for old comments. Good on you.
In reply to the first item – who is the worlds most charismatic leader – I answered. why for the moment? simply because this is not an absolute. Ardern may be polling the highest "for the moment" dosnt mean she will for all eternity (despite the wishes of some on here).
And yep – I stopped donating, and then I started once I thought he was doing a better job. Still am – every month – wont stop with the new leader.
James, look at you – donating to the National party every month. Good on you.
You're quite right re the ephemeral nature of political popularity – for a recent local example we need look no further than the ‘leadership’ of the Honourable Simon Bridges (endorsed by Sir John Key, no less.) Were I a betting man, I'd put money on PM Ardern out-lasting at least two National party leaders.
"But first, the latest update records +2.4 mln more people claiming unemployment benefits in the US, taking the total since early March to more than 38 mln. We may be getting used to such large numbers and this latest week is lower than last week, but this still represents a building social disaster, the scale of which vastly exceeds the Great Depression. In 1932, twelve million Americans were unemployed and one out of every four families no longer had an income. In 2020 the social safety net is helping with the income stress in the short term, but the level of real jobless level is also now approaching 25%. US jobless benefits typically last only 26 weeks"
I don't envy the state governors who seem to be the last stand of sensible politicians in many parts of the US. No money, no food and widespread gun ownership is a recipe for civil unrest. Those billionaire communities maybe don't look so secure anymore and the overseas boltholes are closed
Social and racial stresses arose from widely differing interpretations of the Treaty, the article said, which led to 135 years of conflict and grievance until the document was enshrined in law in 1975 and a truth and reconciliation commission formed.
"Today, the nation has shamefully unequal rates of Māori health, educational and judicial outcomes, and youth suicide statistics are tragically high."
Because of these disparities, many contemporary local commenters viewed the country's progressive label with scepticism, the article said.
Many social advances previously occurred because of the nation's values of fairness and equality, but now some of the motivation was to be seen as a world leader.
"If you look at the right of women to vote, in the 1890s, no one was saying, 'We want to be the first…'," historian Professor Paul Moon told the BBC.
"The concern was, 'This is an important right because it will enfranchise women or be more representative, more democratic and so on'. "
But then Granny reverts to form and tries to link 35 years of neoliberal crap to the current Labour led govt.
I feel like hell has frozen over. Firstly my dad has been saying nice things about Winston Peters… And I agree with them (my dad's a labour/alliance kinda guy)
Then all the older blokes I know who have benefited enormously from neoliberal policies and absolutely hated Labour and adored key and haven't voted Labour since Lange, many of them are praising the PM, talking about nationals lack of compassion and saying they may vote labour or NZ f.
Obviously not a poll or anything but … It's so weird to hear so many people who traditionally spit bike at me for being a lefty even entertain the idea of Labour. Perhaps covid 19 has changed how a lot of people value things. Time will tell.
In a moment we explore the question: What is Andrew Bayly wanting to tell ACC, and will it involve enjoying a small wine tasting and then telling someone to fuck off? But first, for context, a broader one: What do we look for in a government?Imagine for a moment, you ...
As expected, Donald Trump just threw Ukraine under the bus, demanding that it accept Russia's illegal theft of land, while ruling out any future membership of NATO. Its a colossal betrayal, which effectively legitimises Russia's invasion, while laying the groundwork for the next one. But Trump is apparently fine with ...
This is a guest post by George Weeks, reviewing a book called ‘How to Fly a Horse’ by Kevin AshtonBook review: ‘How to Fly a Horse’ by Kevin Ashton (2015) – and what it means for Auckland. The title of this article might unnerve any Greater Auckland ...
This story was originally published by Capital & Main and is part of Covering Climate Now, a global journalism collaboration strengthening coverage of the climate story. Within just a week, the sheer devastation of the Los Angeles wildfires has pushed to the fore fundamental questions about the impact of the climate crisis that have been ...
In this world, it's just usYou know it's not the same as it wasSongwriters: Harry Edward Styles / Thomas Edward Percy Hull / Tyler Sam JohnsonYesterday, I received a lovely message from Caty, a reader of Nick’s Kōrero, that got me thinking. So I thought I’d share it with you, ...
In past times a person was considered “unserious” or “not a serious” person if they failed to grasp, behave and speak according to the solemnity of the context in which they were located. For example a serious person does not audibly pass gas at Church, or yell “gun” at a ...
Long stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, February 13 are:The coalition Government’s early 2024 ‘fiscal emergency’ freeze on funding, planning and building houses, schools, local roads and hospitals helped extend and deepen the economic and jobs recession through calendar ...
For obvious reasons, people feel uneasy when the right to be a citizen is sold off to wealthy foreigners. Even selling the right to residency seems a bit dubious, when so many migrants who are not millionaires get turned away or are made to jump through innumerable hoops – simply ...
A new season of White Lotus is nearly upon us: more murder mystery, more sumptuous surroundings, more rich people behaving badly.Once more we get to identify with the experience of the pampered tourist or perhaps the poorly paid help; there's something in White Lotus for all New Zealanders.And unlike the ...
In 2016, Aotearoa shockingly plunged to fourth place in the Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index. Nine years later, and we're back there again: New Zealand has seen a further slip in its global ranking in the latest Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI). [...] In the latest CPI New Zealand's score ...
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Transforming New Zealand: Brian EastonBrian Easton will discuss the above topic at 2/57 Willis Street, Wellington at 5:30pm on Tuesday 26 February at 2/57 Willis Street, WellingtonThe sub-title to the above is "Why is the Left failing?" Brian Easton's analysis is based on his view that while the ...
Salvation Army’s State of the Nation 2025 report highlights falling living standards, the highest unemployment rates since the 1990s and half of all Pacific children going without food. There are reports of hundreds if not thousands of people are applying for the same jobs in the wake of last year’s ...
Mountain Tui is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Correction: On the article The Condundrum of David Seymour, Luke Malpass conducted joint reviews with Bryce Wilkinson, the architect of the Regulatory Standards Bill - not Bryce Edwards. The article ...
Tomorrow the council’s Transport, Resilience and Infrastructure Committee meet and agenda has a few interesting papers. Council’s Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport Every year the council provide a Letter of Expectation to Auckland Transport which is part of the process for informing AT of the council’s priorities and ...
All around in my home townThey're trying to track me down, yeahThey say they want to bring me in guiltyFor the killing of a deputyFor the life of a deputySongwriter: Robert Nesta Marley.Support Nick’s Kōrero today with a 20% discount on a paid subscription to receive all my newsletters directly ...
Hi,I think all of us have probably experienced the power of music — that strange, transformative thing that gets under our skin and helps us experience this whole life thing with some kind of sanity.Listening and experiencing music has always been such a huge part of my life, and has ...
Business frustration over the stalled economy is growing, and only 34% of voters are confidentNicola Willis can deliver. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, February 12 are:Business frustration is growing about a ...
I have now lived long enough to see a cabinet minister go both barrels on their Prime Minister and not get sacked.It used to be that the PM would have a drawer full of resignations signed by ministers on the day of their appointment, ready for such an occasion. But ...
This session will feature Simon McCallum, Senior Lecturer in Engineering and Computer Science (VUW) and recent Labour Party candidate in the Southland Electorate talking about some of the issues around AI and how this should inform Labour Party policy. Simon is an excellent speaker with a comprehensive command of AI ...
The proposed Waimate garbage incinerator is dead: The company behind a highly-controversial proposal to build a waste-to-energy plant in the Waimate District no longer has the land. [...] However, SIRRL director Paul Taylor said the sales and purchase agreement to purchase land from Murphy Farms, near Glenavy, lapsed at ...
The US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act has been a vital tool in combatting international corruption. It forbids US companies and citizens from bribing foreign public officials anywhere in the world. And its actually enforced: some of the world's biggest companies - Siemens, Hewlett Packard, and Bristol Myers Squibb - have ...
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A Tai Rāwhiti mill that ran for 30 years before it was shut down in late 2023 is set to re-open in the coming months, which will eventually see nearly 300 new jobs in the region. A new report from Massey University shows that pensioners are struggling with rising costs. ...
As support continues to fall, Luxon also now faces his biggest internal ructions within the coalition since the election, with David Seymour reacting badly to being criticised by the PM. File photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate ...
Not since 1988 when Richard Prebble openly criticised David Lange have we seen such a challenge to a Prime Minister as that of David Seymour to Christopher Luxon last night. Prebble suggested Lange had mental health issues during a TV interview and was almost immediately fired. Seymour hasn’t gone quite ...
Three weeks in, and the 24/7 news cycle is not helping anyone feel calm and informed about the second Trump presidency. One day, the US is threatening 25% trade tariffs on its friends and neighbours. The reasons offered by the White House are absurd, such as stopping fentanyl coming in ...
This video includes personal musings and conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Wherever you look, you'll hear headlines claiming we've passed 1.5 degrees of global warming. And while 2024 saw ...
Photo by Heather M. Edwards on UnsplashHere’s the key news, commentary, reports and debate around Aotearoa’s politics and economy in the week to Feb 10 below. That’s ahead of live chats on the Substack App and The Kākā’s front page on Substack at 5pm with: on his column in The ...
Is there anyone in the world the National Party loves more than a campaign donor? Why yes, there is! They will always have the warmest hello and would you like to slip into something more comfortable for that great god of our age, the High Net Worth Individual.The words the ...
Waste and fraud certainly exist in foreign aid programs, but rightwing celebration of USAID’s dismantling shows profound ignorance of the value of soft power (as opposed to hard power) in projecting US influence and interests abroad by non-military/coercive means (think of “hearts and minds,” “hugs, not bullets,” “honey versus vinegar,” ...
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Let us not dance daintily around the elephant in the room. Our politicians who serve us in the present are not honest, certainly not as honest as they should be, and while the right are taking out most of the trophies for warping narratives and literally redefining “facts”, the kiwi ...
A few weeks ago I took a look at public transport ridership in 2024. In today’s post I’m going to be looking a bit deeper at bus ridership. Buses make up the vast majority of ridership in Auckland with 70 million boardings last year out of a total of 89.4 ...
Oh, you know I did itIt's over and I feel fineNothing you could say is gonna change my mindWaited and I waited the longest nightNothing like the taste of sweet declineSongwriters: Chris Shiflett / David Eric Grohl / Nate Mendel / Taylor Hawkins.Hindsight is good, eh?The clarity when the pieces ...
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A listing of 23 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, February 2, 2025 thru Sat, February 8, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
Today, I stumbled across a Twitter Meme: the ending of The Lord of the Rings as a Chess scenario: https://x.com/mellon_heads/status/1887983845917564991 It gets across the basic gist. Aragorn and Gandalf offering up ‘material’ at the Morannon allows Frodo and Samwise to catch Sauron unawares – fair enough. But there are a ...
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The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report is a bleak indictment on the failure of Government to take steps to end poverty, with those on benefits, including their children, hit hardest. ...
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Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. The intention was to establish a colony with the cession of sovereignty to the Crown, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
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Waitangi 2025: Waitangi Day must be community and not politically driven - Shane Jones Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. ...
Despite being confronted every day with people in genuine need being stopped from accessing emergency housing – National still won’t commit to building more public houses. ...
The Green Party says the Government is giving up on growing the country’s public housing stock, despite overwhelming evidence that we need more affordable houses to solve the housing crisis. ...
Before any thoughts of the New Year and what lies ahead could even be contemplated, New Zealand reeled with the tragedy of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming losing her life. For over 38 years she had faithfully served as a front-line Police officer. Working alongside her was Senior Sergeant Adam Ramsay ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson will return to politics at Waitangi on Monday the 3rd of February where she will hold a stand up with fellow co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick. ...
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Green Party MP Steve Abel this morning joined Coromandel locals in Waihi to condemn new mining plans announced by Shane Jones in the pit of the town’s Australian-owned Gold mine. ...
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Today marks a historic moment for Taranaki iwi with the passing of the Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill in Parliament. "Today, we stand together as descendants of Taranaki, and our tūpuna, Taranaki Maunga, is now formally acknowledged by the law as a living tūpuna. ...
Labour is relieved to see Children’s Minister Karen Chhour has woken up to reality and reversed her government’s terrible decisions to cut funding from frontline service providers – temporarily. ...
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The Green Party says that with no-cause evictions returning from today, the move to allow landlords to end tenancies without reason plunges renters, and particularly families who rent, into insecurity and stress. ...
The Government’s move to increase speed limits substantially on dozens of stretches of rural and often undivided highways will result in more serious harm. ...
In her first announcement as Economic Growth Minister, Nicola Willis chose to loosen restrictions for digital nomads from other countries, rather than focus on everyday Kiwis. ...
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Firstly I want to thank OceanaGold for hosting our event today. Your operation at Waihi is impressive. I want to acknowledge local MP Scott Simpson, local government dignitaries, community stakeholders and all of you who have gathered here today. It’s a privilege to welcome you to the launch of the ...
Racing Minister, Winston Peters has announced the Government is preparing public consultation on GST policy proposals which would make the New Zealand racing industry more competitive. “The racing industry makes an important economic contribution. New Zealand thoroughbreds are in demand overseas as racehorses and for breeding. The domestic thoroughbred industry ...
Business confidence remains very high and shows the economy is on track to improve, Economic Growth Minister Nicola Willis says. “The latest ANZ Business Outlook survey, released yesterday, shows business confidence and expected own activity are ‘still both very high’.” The survey reports business confidence fell eight points to +54 ...
Enabling works have begun this week on an expanded radiology unit at Hawke’s Bay Fallen Soldiers’ Memorial Hospital which will double CT scanning capacity in Hawke’s Bay to ensure more locals can benefit from access to timely, quality healthcare, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. This investment of $29.3m in the ...
The Government has today announced New Zealand’s second international climate target under the Paris Agreement, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand will reduce emissions by 51 to 55 per cent compared to 2005 levels, by 2035. “We have worked hard to set a target that is both ambitious ...
Nine years of negotiations between the Crown and iwi of Taranaki have concluded following Te Pire Whakatupua mō Te Kāhui Tupua/the Taranaki Maunga Collective Redress Bill passing its third reading in Parliament today, Treaty Negotiations Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “This Bill addresses the historical grievances endured by the eight iwi ...
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Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today visited Otahuhu College where the new school lunch programme has served up healthy lunches to students in the first days of the school year. “As schools open in 2025, the programme will deliver nutritious meals to around 242,000 students, every school day. On ...
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A bill to make revenue collection on imported and exported goods fairer and more effective had its first reading in Parliament, Customs Minister Casey Costello said today. “The Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill modernises the way in which Customs can recover the costs of services that are needed ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says the Department of Internal Affairs [the Department] has achieved significant progress in completing applications for New Zealand citizenship. “December 2024 saw the Department complete 5,661 citizenship applications, the most for any month in 2024. This is a 54 per cent increase compared ...
Reversals to Labour’s blanket speed limit reductions begin tonight and will be in place by 1 July, says Minister of Transport Chris Bishop. “The previous government was obsessed with slowing New Zealanders down by imposing illogical and untargeted speed limit reductions on state highways and local roads. “National campaigned on ...
Finance Minister Nicola Willis has announced Budget 2025 – the Growth Budget - will be delivered on Thursday 22 May. “This year’s Budget will drive forward the Government’s plan to grow our economy to improve the incomes of New Zealanders now and in the years ahead. “Budget 2025 will build ...
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Associate Education Minister David Seymour welcomes students back to school with a call to raise attendance from last year. “The Government encourages all students to attend school every day because there is a clear connection between being present at school and setting yourself up for a bright future,” says Mr ...
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Hang in there Simon! Just remember, Bill led the party to a vote share of 20.93% yet he went on to become Prime Munster. Helen had 6 years of lousy polling and one lost election before she succeeded. You can do it, Simon. Have faith and tough it out!
It can't open and close gates or do fencing. Yet. But it’s got rolling in something nasty sorted.
https://www.sciencealert.com/spot-the-robot-dog-is-now-herding-sheep-in-new-zealand
That was interesting and kind of creepy.
One immediate potential application that comes to mind is precision application of agrichemicals. Instead of spraying massive amounts of fertilizer or pesticide or weedkillers indiscriminately, send a bunch of robospots out to just do spot applications wherever needed.
and crowd control (there they can spray the nasty chemicals), or maybe replace wardens and turn keys in prisons, oh my gosh the applications for spotty the robot dog are endless and we don't even need to walk him or feed him.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-52619568/coronavirus-robot-dog-enforces-social-distancing-in-singapore-park
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/world/meet-robot-dog-enforcing-social-distancing-singapore
mind shepherding truly is an activitie where lots of people mingle and get infected, right? So many people all working soooo close together. 🙂
As an introvert, I'm finding the new social acceptability of distancing to be the best thing ever. So I'm struggling to come up with any objection to what's happening in your two links.
I'm angling for wangling a way to extend the social distancing for ever
I'm sorry I'm compromised I'll say for any invitation more than 10 , which is my upper comfort limit
Or just save us all time and energy and switch to RegenAg instead.
How bucolic.
Yeah. When they take over, I'm really going to miss the dulcet tones of small petrol engines and large diesels. All lacking effective mufflers on their exhausts.
Another aspect is that these could improve productivity in tropical agriculture which has traditionally been limited by the intensive labour needed for the crops grown in these climates.
That could conceivably change the prospects for chronically poor nations like the Phillipines.
I think it would be difficult to replace humans in agriculture, without inviting a world of trouble .
We already reap the bitter rewards of factory farming
There's a true stewardship of the soil thats not just about inputs and outputs , spraying for pests and diseases etc , as if the earth is a mechanical being
Regenerative agriculture depends on acute observation over time ,and an intuitive "learning" of each complex environment
Only humans can have the serendipitous moments necessary
I totally understand what you are saying; it makes sense and I've no argument. I wasn't imagining humans being replaced. As an automation engineer I've had the chance to see the impact up close and personal’ and everything I’ve seen is that automation works to amplify and assist human capacity. It has no independent existence.
In my view no automation or AI system will ever replace human consciousness. Superhuman AI will turn out to be one of what Vernor Vinge called 'the failed dreams'.
The reason is that consciousness is not computational. (And if Roger Penrose says so that's good enough for me.)
Where machines shine is being able to do the simple routine tasks that are able to be condensed into an algorithm. Thereby freeing up time for humans to be able to do more observing, learning, and synthesis of new and different ways of doing things.
which is good in a factory, not so much in nature.
Shocking to some I know, but farms are nature not factories.
W've been hearing about autonomous ships for decades, now.
In reality they haven't even developed controls and machinery, that can get reliably through a day, without human intervention.
I really don't get the whole automation ideology. Let's use that where appropriate, but there's nothing wrong with people doing things. Lots of people love growing food (and I assume love working on ships), so why not take advantage of that and design systems that are good for people and are functional.
Yup. And that's the general pattern, automation is best thought of as a tool to extend human capacity, not to replace it.
In reality they haven't even developed controls and machinery, that can get reliably through a day, without human intervention.
I once got a major water treatment plant to run autonomously for 9 days without operator intervention … it was quite an accomplishment!
But in general you are right, and it's my view that the prime role of automation is to reliably control the routine, predictable tasks and free up the humans involved so that they can focus their much more flexible and creative energies on higher value add.
Autopilots are a good example you will familiar with, no-one hand steers any more than they have to or enjoy doing these days. And the modern versions do a better job of holding track than a human anyway. On the other hand deciding where the track should be plotted still remains a task better suited to people. Usually.
RL Now that's a point. The temp is said to be going beyond what humans can cope with working in the fields growing food, and can’t do enough with new tech or have enough covers, already is in India etc. So robots to do that would make sense. Unfortunately, the way our 'civilisation' is configured these days, the good of robotising will be compromised by the attack/defence capabilities. But what can't be cured must be endured perhaps.
Funny. Yesty, the boss was talking about her teen son's idea.
Getting 2 or 3 lawnmower robots. We have about 60 lawns ranging from about 2 square metres up to around 50 square metres.
I smiled enthusiastically when mention of a drone to control them came up.
What about thoughts of having city lawn clippings as base for silage for farmers? Ever pursued that idea gsays, it would have to be planned, done carefully, a range of weeds kept out and no spraying, and people take responsibility but it could mean free lawn mowing for them.
I work in a senior lifestyle village.
Rather than silage, I investigated and proposed composting of grass clippings, leaf mulch, tree trimmings and the kitchen scraps.
The compost would be returned to the sub standard soil that is found in most new housing developments.
Long story short (too late!), the residents had concerns about appearances, smell and rats. The management didn't see the benefits…. I have walked this earth long enough to try and convince folk against their will.
Every time I tip another catcher full of clippings into the skip bin, a little part of me dies. Then the last two frosty mornings the bin has been toasty warm with the decomposition starting up.
I read a while back that the DCC had bought a remote control lawnmower – still needed a remote control unit run by an operator, but it was intended to make mowing slopes safer. Ah, here we are.
The fun question is "if the drone controls the mowers, what controls how the drone controls the mowers?"
Not sure I like the idea of autonomous mowers – we don't need to give our robots-gone-berserk edged weapons. Very sci-fi peasant revolt, that.
Ha. Reminds me of my Dad telling us, about the self propelled mower that got away from him, and ended up drowned in the Avon. Briggs and Stratton petrol reel mower, of course.
More recently the automated straddle carrier, that made a bid for freedom in a Dutch port. Through the gate and down the street.
My own favourite machinery with a life of their own, are Lister and Gardener diesels, that have to be thoroughly suffocated to get them to stop. Unlike modern ones, where one dud chip on an electronics board can kill them
On an unrelated subject, I was on University Tube looking to upgrade my drill press with a DC permanent magnet motor from a treadmill…
Anyhow, one of the videos talked about fancy saw benches have 'flesh detectors', that shut down the motor when your fingers get too close.
I figure these lawn automatons would have a similar tech involved.
I suspect it's easier to train a computer to distinguish between wood and a finger than it is between fresh mulch or dog turds and a finger.
Easier to train as long as your willing to lose a bunch of fingers getting there.
The SawStop works by running a small electric current through the saw blade and detecting when its interrupted by an electrically conductive body part.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SawStop
Thanks for the reading.
There are 10 table saw amputations a day in the US.
" After numerous tests using a hot dog as a finger-analog, in spring 2000, Gass conducted the first test with a real human finger: he applied Novocain to his left ring finger, and after two false starts, he placed his finger into the teeth of a whirring saw blade. The blade stopped as designed, and although it "hurt like the dickens and bled a lot," his finger remained intact."
sends a shudder down the spine.
I have gone to a mates workshop to find doors open, blood spattered table saw outside and no-one around.
He lost his right index finger-tip.
Ever seen the Black Mirror series?
There's an episode with post-apocalyptic survivors being hunted by super wired dog robots.Horrifying
Metalheads, my first thought too, brilliant episode, brilliant series. Check out Black Mirrors creator Charlie Brookers Anti Viral Wipe (about UKs response to pandemic) on YouTube for a good laugh and also quite insightful.
I've been a fan of Charlie Brooker's since he wrote for nerdy games mag, PC Zone during the '90s. He's viciously hilarious and his books are great. They should really make him PM.
Yes and it will happen too. All tools get misused, the problem is always the workman.
a bad tool blames the workman!
thats a T shirt!
No. But I can imagine.
I also think that the military in many countries will already be/or looking into weaponising these.
Yup. Absolutely and we will live to see the horror. Sorry if that comes across as grim.
Might not be age-appropriate for the TS audience, but after having and reading the Harry Potter series to four children – (should have bought Stephen Fry's audiobooks when they came out) your Grim reference immediately struck me as appropriate.
" The Grim is an omen of death, which is reputed to bring about the demise of the person who encounters it. The Grim takes the shape of a large, black, menaching, spectral dog. "
(BTW: Still trying to keep the offspring reading. Just bought two Terry Pratchett novels for the nineteen year old's birthday next week. It's a shared enjoyment.)
Pratchett is wonderful; he's the only other author I still keep a full collection of every published novel I could buy. (The other is of course Vernor Vinge.)
Going Postal was pure genius.
Thanks, will check out Vernor Vinge for him. He's still likes collections…
He has the book for Going Postal, and we all enjoyed the miniseries. Even the youngest.
Was delighted to find four pristine Pratchett hardcover books in our local charity shop last year – 25c each.
I absolutely HATE shopping, but I was embarrassingly overjoyed to make that purchase.
My first read was the Peace War trilogy which I'd imagine would appeal to a young adult. Then there is the Zone of Thought series starting with A Fire Upon the Deep that I regard as absolute scifi masterpieces, but are longer reads.
Vinge was a computer scientist and mathematician and brings a similar veritas to his work that Asimov did.
Can't go wrong by reading Pratchett Red. I like the Big Bang Theory in one of his Disc world novels. Mort I think. I have it somewhere, will have to have a read of it again.
… In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
The wonderful Bob Clarkson (former MP) was just on the radio nationale. Said Todd is the equal of Simon, and would definitely be better than the "communist" currently in charge.
Thank you Bob, for capturing the mood of the nation…
Bob who?
Worth repeating (from Colmar Brunton thread):
28% of National voters disapprove of the "communist". That's 28% out of 29% which is … *counts fingers* … single digits.
They don't even understand their own voters, never mind the rest of the country.
haha was that Bob the Builder , who briefly ousted Winnie?
And then replaced by Bridges. The rising star.
It'll be quite the twist of fate if Bridges leaves Parliament before Peters. He already knows he won't rise as high in government. Ouch.
Wonder if he's willing to bet his left testicle?
This is all getting a little incestuous:
Peters = former MP for Tauranga
Clarkson = former MP for Tauranga
Bridges = current MP for Tauranga
Muller = current MP for a Seat that is basically Tauranga Suburbs
"Communist", really?
Last time I looked, there was no nationalisation of businesses without compensation, collectivisation of land and agriculture or even purges of those seen as enemies of the state, unless you count Mike Hosking leaving 7 Sharp.
People need to start calling the likes of Clarkson out.
You are calling him out.
Why argue with someone who is so thick he thinks Ardern is a communist?
"Mr Clarkson, the Prime Minister's critics say she has focused too much on keeping you alive, are you one of them?"
A quick Google of 'Bob Clarkson MP' found that he had been called out by quite a few people in the media.
Issues with Bob the Builder involved anti-gay and anti Muslim comments, stoushes with family over money, blaming people who lived near industrial sites for complaining about heath problems from dust.
Now we find he doesn't like our "Communist" PM even though he does call by her first name. I presume that local National people called him out because he only had one term as Tauranga MP. Later news said he was leaving to join ACT.
After all these years, a one term wonder is called back to comment on Bridges and Muller on RNZ. I listened to the interview. It's an interesting interview from the point of view of personal values and political support.
RNZ did neither Muller or Bridges a favour by allying such support to them from this man.
"Our rights are being violated. That is all actually real," Stokes said. "But this is one of the few times that's ok. Pandemics – these call for a collectivist response. They don't work without one." An American gun rights activist gets it, the people calling Labour communist don't.
I remember it was a trap lefties got into when National/Key were flying high, disparaging their supporters as stupid etc, I see it with the righties now, didn't work for us and shouldn't for them either.
Also, I watched the One News last night, first time in years, and I waited to see what the Muller guy was gonna be like, and they had no footage, just some friends saying he wss a good "bugger" & that "maoris stole his flash sandwiches at school", or something.
One last thing, to me the Labour numbers proves no one is listening to Hosking, Garner etc or reading the Herald.
Who thought it was a good idea to put him up to give public comment and use airtime? He's a has been of the worst sort and his opinion as irrelevant as most of the public. It smacks of irresponsible journalists. What is national radio's guidelines for selecting commentators?
Interesting Guardian article yesterday about negative interest rates coming up in the UK.
It refers to the Danish Jyske Bank which launched it's first negative interest mortgage rate last year:
I'm thinking there may be benefits for this happening in New Zealand.
1. Palatable or not, those best able to weather the financial implications of Covid will most often be those who have the excess income, and ability to amass savings. They will not gain interest but they will also retain equity on their savings, unless the savings are more than a specified amount, such as in Sweden:
Those implications may mean that those with money may choose to invest in businesses or spend it which will circulate that money and improve the economy recovery.
2. For mortgage holders, this will allow a practical relief from the financial commitment of a mortgage, while still maintaining a payment relationship with their bank. It may be able – in many cases – to offset financial hardship resulting from reduced pay or unemployment.
3. A further benefit is, that if housing prices fall significantly (which would be a huge benefit to society) those who have entered the market lately, when it is most inflated, will have a reduced payment for the rest of the mortgage, offsetting a larger amount of equity loss than those who are at the end of their mortgages.
That is, if a mortgage has been taken out for $500,000 today and goes for twenty years at 4.0% paid weekly, the interest paid over that time is $226,569 accounting for just over 31% If of payments during that time. (NB: I used the stuff mortgage calculator for these calculations)
If that mortgage is transferred to what the Jyse bank offers there are two options:
a. Keep the 20 year term and reduce the weekly payment to $481
b: Retain your existing weekly payment of $699 and reduce your term to 14 years.
c: A combination of either above.
This is a reduction of around 30% of current mortgage commitments on offer. This provides a cushion for house prices to fall – 20-25% or more without causing excessive financial harm for home owners and tenants.
For me, the elegance of this proposal is that those who are at the end of their mortgages – and will not gain as much benefit as those at the beginning – will have, during their mortgage term have already accumulated untaxed, and inflated capital gains so their direct investment will still be higher than what they have contributed. In fact, any mortgage transferring over will have built into it a proportional cost/benefit that relates to the loss of equity if house prices fall vs the reduction in interest payable on that property.
This is kind of a follow up comment to the article I posted from the NEF last week.
I am coming from the perspective that house prices and rental costs need to fall significantly – and have needed to for a while. I also understand that many NZers have all their financial wealth and security in their homes, and need to be considered.
I would like to see our government administer or legislate for such a solution.
Ideally, it would be a government agency, such as the State Advances Corporation that provided home loans to ex-servicemen.
To facilitate rollout it may be necessary to provide in tranches depending on owner/occupier and citizenship status. I'd personally delay offering to family trusts or LLC's or overseas residents because their choice of vehicle provides them with some insulation from taxes, expense and financial shocks already.
I'd be interested to hear from others about problems they can see with this proposal, to see if there are any kinks that needed to be worked out if it was to be a practical and possible option.
(Quick correction: Just noticed the -0.5% bank rate only applies to 10 years and I used it for the whole 20 yr term, which is only offered at 0%. Will update on next comment)
… still a term reduction of 6 years according to stuff at $699/wk.
Hi Molly, it's a trend to watch for sure. When I grew up & got a savings account the bank paid me 3% interest to deposit money in it. Banking then had a structural incentive to get more custom. We may be returning to it!
John Campbell interviewed a young asian guy who spoke our lingo like a kiwi a few days ago, about quantitative easing. He was representing the Reserve Bank on the TVNZ breakfast show. They've recently doubled their qe. He said the new money gets created as electronic credit (which I knew), which would have confounded many viewers but he was refreshingly forthright and sensible in not spooking them by calling those dollars imaginary. They become real when digitally invented.
So the way to keep the economy going now is to invent money. Farmers could use this thinking in times of drought, eh? Invent rain. How? Well, easiest way is to catch and store it when it falls. They could call that process water conservation. Conservatives ought to conserve, eh? You'd think. The reason farmers don't is because they believe rain always falls eventually. As Tom Petty once sang "the waiting is the hardest part"…
Catching and storing rain is fine for targeted irrigation but the dam needs to be half the size of the farm for an effective grazing regime. And it does rain most of the time.
The numbers around volume and weight for just 20mm on a thousand hectare farm are astronomical. Clever farming is a better option.
That's utter nonsense.
And even if it were true (it's total crap) aquaculture is more productive than farming, because gravity.
I think the most important thing to understand about all this stuff was highlighted to me simply by the US economist Randell Wray (and recently I heard this idea repeated by the US Fed chairman in a public interview where he encouraged the US treasury to spend more).
The statement (miss-quoted) is "the central bank lends and the treasury spends". Treasury spending gets spending moving including when facilitated by central QE programs to lower the government interest rates, but all the monetary policy stuff done by the central bank is about changing the interest rates and so all depends on the amount of interest in taking on loans.
Hi Dennis, good analogy.
Using that analogy, I would say that would require the government to direct the rain to fall more equitably, instead of providing torrential downpours on dams and giving the control to commercial banks and saying turn the taps on as you wish. (Or don't.)
You mean a Chinese New Zealander or suchlike?
This fine gentleman?
https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/about-us/senior-management/yuong-ha
Yeah, that's him. Came across well, I thought.
A post about many of the incorrect things you will hear said about government spending and its impacts on the economy. In this case highlighting that the Bank of England is presently falsifying many of these ideas.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=45026
That's a very interesting thing to observe, seeing this in practice doesn't make much sense to me however.
Negative interest rates (which I believe Sweden's central bank is running) mean that the banks deposits with the central bank lose money. Collectively there is no way for the financial sector to rid itself of these excess deposits (other than lending them to the government) as any payments they make then go to another large financial institution. The upshot of this is that government debt often ends up lending at negative interest rates which are however lower than what the central bank is offering.
This is what is going on with the charges banks are setting for holding onto large deposits.
What makes little sense to me however is public loans at negative interest rates, and I suspect there is some missing piece such as a small number of these loans are made as an advertising ploy by the bank. The reason I understand things this way is because the interest component paid on a loan is basically the income part of the arrangement for the bank. If there is negative income to the arrangement then it makes little sense to enter into the loan agreement. Maybe Jyske bank is simply leading the pack in this case, but if all the banks are doing this then collectively it seems to make more sense to get out of the banking game.
Your concerns are already covered in the comment, Nic. This is about ensuring everyone gets through intact. No interest on deposits does not remove equity, just encourages direct investment and spending.
" Maybe Jyske bank is simply leading the pack in this case, but if all the banks are doing this then collectively it seems to make more sense to get out of the banking game. "
Banks still can charge fees, as I believe Jyske does, but not excessively. Long-time the banks will be able to survive, and their chance of survival improves if the majority of their customers are financially secure. But we have businesses – banks included – that are not used to long-term thinking.
And why can't the government play the game to benefit all NZers?
Molly, I'm not saying it would be a bad thing if this happened. I just think its unlikely to be something which can be setup as a widespread part of the financial system, as your expecting banks to engage in widespread unprofitable lending. The long term thinking on that game is to stop being in the business of banking.
I did consider that this can be a way to shrink the financial system which might be a good thing to do to some extent. I do think this aligns with something which seems to be not widely understood, but low (or even negative) interest rates are actually less favorable to banks than the high interest rates, which are supposed to be restraining their lending.
I understand. But I'm not worried about the banks incentives. So, far the banks are not offering anything that doesn't improve their income substantially in the long term – which the mortgage holidays do. What the rent holidays don't necessarily do – is improve the financial security and well being of their clients.
So, I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of the people of NZ, taking into account the inflated cost of housing that has continued not to be addressed, AND the NZ cultural attachment to housing as financial security. That is the problem I'm talking about and trying to address – not how to retain the bank as a commercial entity.
The facts became somewhat more clear when I read the guardian article in full. First its a Danish bank (which I was calling Swedish) and second the banks still make profit on the loans due to the associated fees.
I suspect that in their banking system these fees are much higher than in New Zealand which has a much higher rate difference between the central bank (and money market interest rates) and commercial bank interest rates. In New Zealand the fees component is typically very small and often waived. This structure makes the New Zealand banks profitability much more opaque.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_industry_of_Denmark
I would suggest that to gain the social benefits the overall cost of lending is what is relevant rather than the specifics of only some of interest rates and costs involved in the lending.
"I would suggest that to gain the social benefits the overall cost of lending is what is relevant rather than the specifics of only some of interest rates and costs involved in the lending. "
I agree, and we need to start quantifying those benefits by some means in order to know where to rebuild the economy and support NZers. SROI (Social Return on Investment) has been around for a while now, but is not often referred to in policy statements or media articles while expected returns from events such as the America's Cup are calculated and accepted without much scrutiny.
I guess – without going into the role of the central bank – any single bank would make money by taking a deposit of $10k and then repaying $9500. It loans the $10k on mortgage but receives repayments of say $9700. So it would still have a $200 margin. I made the figures up for the above.
Its a question of how far $200 goes to paying the banks employees though, and also why you do if the borrower defaults (e.g stops making repayments).
Same as banking now I expect – the margin plus any fees need to cover the banks expenses plus profit.
Absolutely. As I highlighted in other comments in Denmark they pay a lot more in fees (including an annual percentage of the loan, as a fee), in New Zealand all the payments are rolled into interest rates, so by focusing on just the interest rates this is a bit miss leading when compared to New Zealand.
Yes, I understand that as well. Which is why I have suggested a Government run system that reduces those costs as much as possible.
The banks have been very profitable and have no incentive to reduce their income from clients or reducing the inflated housing costs. They are financially better off when these are as high as possible.
A government agency – however – can consider SROI when calculating cost/benefit and a create a system that does not need mortgage brokers and refixing every two-three years. A young relative working for one of the big four banks in the mortgage lending department receives quarterly bonuses in the tens of thousands for the process of refixing existing loans or signing up new ones. There's a lot of extraneous extras that are lost when a constant long-term loan at a fixed rate is entered into.
A bank in Switzerland is already doing that – charging clients for deposits over a certain amount.
"Swiss banks are to start charging their super-rich clients to look after their piles of cash.
UBS, the world’s largest wealth manager, told its ultra-wealthy clients on Tuesday that it would introduce an annual 0.6% charge on cash savings of more than €500,000 (£461,000). The fee, to be introduced in November, rises to 0.75% on savings of more than 2m Swiss francs (£1.7m).
The minimum fee is €3,000 a year. Savings of 2m francs would attract an annual charge of 15,000 francs."
In terms of addressing the mechanisms that produce inequality, this may also go some way to improve it. At a certain point when you have met all your financial requirements to live, and have saved enough to be secure, the current financial environment allows wealth to multiply and accumulate.
Note: The Jyske bank also charges fees that cover admin and employment costs, but they are not excessive.
Following the discussion with RedLogix above the following thoughts from the character of Samuel Vines seem appropriate:
“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet."
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness.” – Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play
Terry Pratchett, economist.
Already thought of a possible improvement while AFK:
IF landlords on a property take this option, they have to take the same term and the reduced payment amount and pass on at least 80% of that saving to the tenants. That would reduce financial rental pressure immediately.
That will happen anyway in current situation …and considerably faster.
Negative rates are a very slow way of unwinding the effects of QE…. especially at -0.5%.
Why and how do you think that will happen?
I would expect quite a lot of turmoil for both homeowners, landlords and tenants that are financially stressed, and this mechanism might be a way of providing security in terms of housing without a lot of changes in ownership. (As well as providing a needed downwards pressure on housing and rental prices)
“Negative rates are a very slow way of unwinding the effects of QE…. especially at -0.5%.”
And why is slow considered a negative? This does allow a downward movement in housing prices and rentals – at -0.5% a 31% neutral position compared to maintaining the same mortgage at the current 4%.
Given the love affair and financial security many NZers have with property, we need a plan to allow many to still feel and be financially secure while creating a more affordable housing environment for all.
Any other ideas on how to do that would be great… because many have been waiting quite a while to access housing that is affordable and healthy without needing to overcrowd…
Thousands of under-utilised Air BnB properties, high and increasing unemployment, increasing State housing provision will drive it…..the same forces that will drive down property prices.
Slow is considered negative because the need is now….the tenants and mortgagees cannot wait years or decades for the ratios to begin to become aligned with the real economy again.
The RBNZ backstopping the banks is (I expect) designed to support that deflation while enabling bank viability….it would not surprise to see them take on the bad loan books of the banks and administer those mortgages in the near term to remove them from the private balance sheets. Hopefully they will have a mechanism to support owner occupied to continue and foreclose investment properties.
The mechanism you state, which is left to circumstance and commercial entities, will disrupt a lot of homeowners, landlords and tenants. The disruption may also continue for some time, and will result in NZers losing out – not banks who have benefitted from increasing debt levels for many years now. It just depends on where priorities lie.
There will also be a fast response time to reduced mortgages – for financially strapped owners and tenants.
If your housing costs are reduced immediately by 20-30% to offset the financial downturn and resulting constricting household incomes, then there is less likely to be disruption by the need to move or sell – AND find somewhere else to live. (Although, I think there still will be disruption and devastation, just perhaps reduced)
I do agree that the state has to be more involved to direct the fallout, and ensure long-term benefits to NZers.
negative rates won't create that scale or speed of reduction (immediate)…and as stated the reduction is going to occur anyway, negative rates or not.
And negative rates create other problems that make the whole regime problematic.
The mechanism I outlined is hardly left to commercial entities and circumstance (market forces) for it involves market intervention by the state…..and its not as if it hasn't been done before.
Back in the 80s high interest rate environment the government offered Housing Corp mortgages at considerably below market rate to distressed mortgages for owner occupiers….the mechanism may be different this time but the result will be the same.
P.S. disruption is not going to be avoided no matter what is done.
" Back in the 80s high interest rate environment the government offered Housing Corp mortgages at considerably below market rate to distressed mortgages for owner occupiers….the mechanism may be different this time but the result will be the same. "
What was the result from your perspective? Because the government also offered low rates to returned servicemen, and increased home ownership and security was also a result.
And, without rancour.. do you have any ideas about reducing the fallout without just allowing the market to crash? Another concern I have about that passive method is that on top of financial and housing disruption, it also reduces the likelihood of investment in improving housing stock standards, and our housing stock is still often disgracefully low in this regard.
(Already conceded disruption will occur, just looking to reduce the impact, while supporting NZ people – not entities)
"What was the result from your perspective? Because the government also offered low rates to returned servicemen, and increased home ownership and security was also a result."
When the mortgage we had taken out at 8% hit 19% we applied for a housing corp refinance and from memory the rate was 11%…and the term extended to 24 years (greater than available in the market)…the result was we didn't lose our home.
"And, without rancour.. do you have any ideas about reducing the fallout without just allowing the market to crash?"
The market is going to crash whether we like it or not…the only question is by how much. I have outlined how I believe the RBNZ will reduce the fallout….remember they are required by statute to ensure the stability of the banking system but they have also stated the property ratios are unsustainable and create instability so really their options are very limited.
And if they bail out investors (in both residential and commercial) they create the same problem for themselves that the Fed did with their QE programme….they become captured by the underwrite and cannot withdraw it….which ultimately runs counter to their charter.
"another concern I have about that passive method is that on top of financial and housing disruption, it also reduces the likelihood of investment in improving housing stock standards, and our housing stock is still often disgracefully low in this regard."
Gov is partially addressing this with increased social housing build and the improving standards can be covered by increased trades training though its not a given….there is room for much more particularly in regard to CC and density as Susan Krumdieck promotes.
I'm someone who thinks the inflated housing prices do need to come down – both for purchase and for rent.
The question is: Can this be equity adjustment occur WHILE still allowing people to live in and retain their current housing? You seem prepared to let the market which has failed us in terms of providing homes, crash AND then provide them.
You also seem to suggest you would support govt loans only for homeowners, but I don't think that would deflate the housing market substantially. Significantly, tenants would be delayed in receiving any benefit.
I would have landlords who don't use alternative entity vehicles such as trusts, or LLC's to be the next in line for government mortgages after owner occupiers.
Only if there was a capacity left, would you include commercial entities that trade in housing and rentals. I would also not offer the facility to overseas investors or non NZ citizens.
The current social housing programme is going to take a while to come online, and is inadequate unless you are counting on a vast load of properties to come on the market at diminished prices. Which while beneficial in terms of stock numbers, will have an ignored human cost to it, that might be avoided if some direct action is taken.
As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants.
"The question is: Can this be equity adjustment occur WHILE still allowing people to live in and retain their current housing? You seem prepared to let the market which has failed us in terms of providing homes, crash AND then provide them."
You appear to misunderstand …the equity adjustment is going to occur….and as it does we can (and I suspect will) provision home owners to remain in their homes.
"You also seem to suggest you would support govt loans only for homeowners, but I don't think that would deflate the housing market substantially. Significantly, tenants would be delayed in receiving any benefit."
Support for homeowners is correct….if you include provision for investors you are placing the floor under the market and encourage the lending…the deflation will occur because homeowners do not require a return…it is somewhere to live…whereas investors require the return to justify the investment.
Serviceability is the key
"I would have landlords who don't use alternative entity vehicles such as trusts, or LLC's to be the next in line for government mortgages after owner occupiers."
They can be next in line…but if the gov says sorry nothing for you then the deflation occurs….there is a disincentive for banks to provide finance.
"Only if there was a capacity left, would you include commercial entities that trade in housing and rentals. I would also not offer the facility to overseas investors or non NZ citizens. "
It is not a question of capacity…the Govs ability to finance is unlimited (if we ignore future impact) …it is what is the desired outcome…commercial property is also overvalued and over leveraged…..it cannot be subsidised as that creates disconnects and disconnects from the real economy are the problem.
"the current social housing programme is going to take a while to come online, and is inadequate unless you are counting on a vast load of properties to come on the market at diminished prices. Which while beneficial in terms of stock numbers, will have an ignored human cost to it, that might be avoided if some direct action is take"
Yes the social housing will take time and in one respect I think the gov foolish to build when they could buy cheaply existing properties (there was no shortage of houses, only a shortage of affordable housing) But there are positives to building social housing including training, employment and new technology (or systems)
"As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants."
And why would an investor do that?…the incentives are to quit as they are now.
Social housing opposed to state housing helps to maintain inflated housing prices.
Supporting landlords while requiring them to pass on the savings to their tenants, will still allow the market to deflate while allowing the high proportion of tenanted NZers to stay in their current housing if it is still the most appropriate for them.
You seem to expect the market which has failed, to crash, and then as it recovers – somehow do what it has failed to do in the past. Our housing situation requires a stronger government intervention to solve. Social housing programmes won't be the solution.
"As mentioned, IF investors were included, they would only be able to take the reduced rate option AND be required to pass on the majority of that rate to tenants. Eg. they still get the 30% reduced payments over time to offset the expected loss of capital equity, and rental costs are directly and immediately reduced for tenants."
And why would an investor do that?…the incentives are to quit as they are now.
Well, aren't all landlords in it for the business of providing housing at a profit and not capital gains? (/sarc) In essence, their profits won't be adversely affected – their income would reduce, but so would their expenses. The return should be equitable with pre-Covid.
I'm advocating a bottom-up approach. What do the NZ people need. We need to be housed, fed and supported – then employed. The current social housing plan is not going to cut it, it was ineffective to address the real housing issues before, and it will not deliver now.
"Social housing opposed to state housing helps to maintain inflated housing prices"
.Not sure your definition of social housing is the norm…social housing INCLUDES state housing, community and emergency housing.
"Supporting landlords while requiring them to pass on the savings to their tenants, will still allow the market to deflate while allowing the high proportion of tenanted NZers to stay in their current housing if it is still the most appropriate for them"
Supporting them how?…..and tenants can remain in their current housing (if they so desire) if the landlord changes…the property remains.
"You seem to expect the market which has failed, to crash, and then as it recovers – somehow do what it has failed to do in the past. Our housing situation requires a stronger government intervention to solve. Social housing programmes won't be the solution."
You continue misunderstand what I am outlining….'the market will do what the market does , and currently it is in a deflationary environment….the state intervention (or not) is crucial to the desired outcome…as it always was, its just that in the recent past the intervention was considered undesired
"The World Bank also says this ratio is "possibly the most important summary measure of housing market performance, indicating not only the degree to which housing is affordable by the population, but also the presence of market distortions".
Based on this official work, it seems to have become accepted that a median multiple of 3.0 times or less is a very good marker for housing affordability. Much of the work in support of the 3x standard is based on US research on the US housing market"
https://www.interest.co.nz/property/house-price-income-multiples
Is that a ratio you wish the government to "support"?…..for by requiring support for investors that's exactly what you will be doing.
I have little time for JLR but credit where it's due, this is a useful insight into how things are done inside the National caucus:
https://twitter.com/jamileeross/status/1263570896901386240
My link didn't work Observer?
Basically he says all MPs are liars and it's anyone's guess between "mr unlikable and mr unknowable". He's quite funny.
Thanks observer. A worthwhile read. Much more credible insight on the "Vote. Far more useful than some of the commentators! Thanks Jamie.
So much for the Swedish experiment:
Sweden currently ranks 8th on deaths per capita @384 per million….behind the likes of Spain, France , UK and Italy…San Marino is the highest @1209
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Ah…over the last week…lies, damn lies and statistics.
This was the source of the original article.
Also something in the Guardian about the lower than expected percentage of infected people with antibodies, the mathematicians are baffled (?????). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/just-7-per-cent-of-stockholm-had-covid-19-antibodies-by-end-of-april-study-sweden-coronavirus
There's some kind of mental disconnect going on between an expected 25% antibody rate, or even a 7% antibody rate, and a reported population case rate of 0.3%.
Evidently they are putting a lot of hope into the asymptomatic infection and transmission rate being orders of magnitude higher than detected case rate. But that hope isn't supported by data from places where extensive testing of contacts is carried out (such as New Zealand), which shows that true asymptomatic cases are a small fraction of the number of symptomatic cases.
Given that most reports of antibody tests highlight the fact that most tests have a very high false positive rate, the likeliest explanation is that even the 7% at the end of April is a gross overestimate of how many have actually been exposed. Which in turn suggests that the voluntary physical distancing the Swedes have done has successfully flattened the curve, but they are just somewhere near the start of a very long broad peak of the curve.
That was my reading of it this morning as well. Covid-19 simply isn’t as infectious as originally anticipated, or it doesn’t cause the immune system to generate antibodies unless symptoms are severe or ….
But as was obvious from the start – this isn’t a standard disease
Covid-19 simply isn’t as infectious as originally anticipated
My sense is that infection spreading is mainly due to large groups getting close together and making loud noises at each other. Choir practice, bars, weddings, noisy restaurants etc. Those appear to have been the superspreading events. Then once those events stopped, and very basic precautions against spreading started, it took a lot of close personal contact for most new infections.
It kind of makes a mockery of the idea of an R0 number when most infection spread is due to a few discrete superspreading events, each resulting in a large but random number of transmissions. Rather than the picture implied by an R0 number, which suggests each infection likely passes it on to two or three other people .(or twenty in the case of measles in an unprotected population).
Ever been to a resthome lately, they're squished in like sardines, and of course NZs other outbreak was at a school.
I looked into typical infection models of the kind being used to discuss policy (the SIR form) and was astounded by how unrealistically simplistic they are. While its possible to understand they are modelling a process like viral spread its always going to be questionable if they are making a reasonable forecast, specifically as the outbreak occurs people will and have been naturally socially distance themselves from others (people automatically out less and take more precautions), but the assumption seems to be a static R0 throughout any forecast which doesn't respond to the outbreak.
Does anyone know of government reviews going on in response to the Covid-19 outbreak?
I vaguely recall talk about a review into the Covid 19 responses by DHBs after complaints about lack of surgical equipment and PPEs in some parts of the country. I can't remember the actual specifics.
That was annoying. Software security update reboot. It found a configuration issue from the operating system update earlier in the week. Set the IP incorrectly.
Rapid fix while I was in a zoom webinar.
Tyvm
The search button – is it not working?
One interesting aspect of the lockdown,and spending constraints is that NZ has reduced both its use of credit cards,and paid off over the last 2 months 1.5 billion of interest bearing credit card debt.
https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/c12
It sucks to be visa . Wonder what the impact is on the balance of payments and how much less is going to overseas as profit and fees. I'm assuming the local banks provide the capital circulated but I don't really know how it works in the background.
Another random thought – so far banks and credit card companies seem to have made up the fraud losses. that happen but with the changing banking enviroment will security become a higher profile activity?
I see James' favourite politician, Jair Bolsonaro, is butchering Brazil's Covid 19 response.
1153 deaths today with 8000+ critical.
It makes me laugh how mush you mention me – whereas I never give you a second thought.
When asked (on 1 November 2018) who he thought the world's most charismatic leader is, James replied "At the moment .. Jair Bolsonaro".
https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-01-11-2018/#comment-1545374
How many times has James moved on since then? More recently (January 2020) our very own leader of the opposition Simon Bridges had reacquired James' favour.
A few days ago these ‘word clouds’ revealed that some NZers consider that another political leader close to home as ‘charismatic‘.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/national-mps-doing-the-numbers-on-simon-bridges-as-newshub-poll-shows-what-kiwis-think-of-him.html
But I suspect that’s not how James rolls. Perhaps Todd Muller's looking pretty charismatic to James "at the moment". Ah James, ever the fair-weather admirer.
look at you – searching back and spending time searching for old comments. Good on you.
In reply to the first item – who is the worlds most charismatic leader – I answered. why for the moment? simply because this is not an absolute. Ardern may be polling the highest "for the moment" dosnt mean she will for all eternity (despite the wishes of some on here).
And yep – I stopped donating, and then I started once I thought he was doing a better job. Still am – every month – wont stop with the new leader.
James, look at you – donating to the National party every month. Good on you.
You're quite right re the ephemeral nature of political popularity – for a recent local example we need look no further than the ‘leadership’ of the Honourable Simon Bridges (endorsed by Sir John Key, no less.) Were I a betting man, I'd put money on PM Ardern out-lasting at least two National party leaders.
One down…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105838453/john-key-delivers-stark-warning-on-the-economy-endorses-simon-bridges-as-leader
"But first, the latest update records +2.4 mln more people claiming unemployment benefits in the US, taking the total since early March to more than 38 mln. We may be getting used to such large numbers and this latest week is lower than last week, but this still represents a building social disaster, the scale of which vastly exceeds the Great Depression. In 1932, twelve million Americans were unemployed and one out of every four families no longer had an income. In 2020 the social safety net is helping with the income stress in the short term, but the level of real jobless level is also now approaching 25%. US jobless benefits typically last only 26 weeks"
https://www.interest.co.nz/news/105146/more-huge-us-job-losses-economies-contracting-beijing-clamps-down-hong-kong-china
Over 38 million unemployed in worlds largest economy…and a virus uncontrolled…difficult to see any upside
I don't envy the state governors who seem to be the last stand of sensible politicians in many parts of the US. No money, no food and widespread gun ownership is a recipe for civil unrest. Those billionaire communities maybe don't look so secure anymore and the overseas boltholes are closed
https://twitter.com/nickofnz/status/1263600710299512833
Newshub Breaking News:
Todd's in, Simon's gone.
And hes making it pretty clear, his absolute priority is the economy, no matter how many lives it costs.
Hoots got the boot?
National's Chinese Communist Party funding must have been cut now that Simon's gone.
https://www.twitter.com/matthewhootonnz?lang=en
maybe he's got a new job that's incompatible with his twitter account.
Or he's arch trolling the left.
A wee twist…
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1259527119136272384
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1263665441437888512
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1263617360902131714
The Herald changing its tune? Pointing out New Zealand's shameful inequality of recent decades.
But then Granny reverts to form and tries to link 35 years of neoliberal crap to the current Labour led govt.
I feel like hell has frozen over. Firstly my dad has been saying nice things about Winston Peters… And I agree with them (my dad's a labour/alliance kinda guy)
Then all the older blokes I know who have benefited enormously from neoliberal policies and absolutely hated Labour and adored key and haven't voted Labour since Lange, many of them are praising the PM, talking about nationals lack of compassion and saying they may vote labour or NZ f.
Obviously not a poll or anything but … It's so weird to hear so many people who traditionally spit bike at me for being a lefty even entertain the idea of Labour. Perhaps covid 19 has changed how a lot of people value things. Time will tell.
I hope so Corey.
Kia Ora Newshub.
Paddy I see you won a award. Yes it great that the government took a strong stance against the virus.
Looks like the young ones are enjoying the night life.
That's cool A shortage of wool for because of a The people nitting.
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.
That's correct the health of the Kaumatua comes first our traditions can still be revived later on.
Festpack is postponed till 2024 it looks like a great Pacific people festival. of Arts
Ka kite Ano.
https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU
Kia Ora Newshub
I think it's a great idea dropping council concent for sheds and sleepouts under 30 Square metres.
That's good $600 million being put into regional economy's.
Looks like Kiwis are enjoying the ski fields.
Conserving water is the best way to go so we stop putting huge pressure on our environment look around the world and learn from there mistakes.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.
Some people will be able to build sleepouts to house the whanau with the guidance of a qualified builder.
Tangata Whenua using the Internet to entertain and teach Te reo Ka pai.
To much the tangata living off the grid.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora The Am Show.
The government has done a great job in their first term.
Aotearoa is the place a lot of people want to flight to.
Fruit juice will be good for you with no sugar or coffee. Sounds like the new drink is great.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora Newshub.
Great that Stuff is going to be owned by its staff.
The magnetic virus testing is great especially with the technology being open sourced and very cost effective open source is the way of the future.
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.
That's great church and tangi can have 100 tangata attending .
The Papatuanuku has changed a lot in the last 3 years.?????.
Mana Wahine.
Ka kite Ano.