There are now two types of ladders:
The gold plated ones used exclusively for the welfare of the rich and the powerful.
The rickety ramshackle ones grudgingly used for the rest.
As far as I know, nobody in the Labour party did anything like phone the police to warn them off prosecuting Liu for domestic violence, and no Labour member has a spouse involved with Liu’s company or anything like that. Where’s the pay for play?
Unless there is some evidence of favouritism shown towards this man by Labour, what’s the actual story?
Well said, Phil.
State funded +Any donation of $1,000 plus (or may be even $100 plus) to be transparent and openly declared with no anonymity provision available.
Maurice Williamson helped this character buy a house/batch next to his own and even said he does some house handyman repair work for him when this fellow goes off to china for a holiday. The immigration minister, Woodhouse said that he ‘personally went and visited this guy in his hotel/residence’ to get his suggestions for changes to the immigration laws! Can’t you see how unbecoming and dodgy for a government cabinet minister to do that! By the way, Key even went and opened his hotel. National has, as far as I have have read, declared only $22,000 from this man when National seems to be much closer to him.
Both Labour and National should come clean about ALL the donations from this fellow and there aught to be a thorough investigations by the police or IRD or parliament or election commission about ALL the activities, dealings and behaviour of this individual.
In my opinion, any donation of $1,000 or more from anyone or any group should be declared by all political parties. Better transparency is what is needed to keep NZ corruption free.
Some important questions need to be asked. Why has this Liu fellow made his statement now? What is his motive or agenda? Is his statement true or a lie? Where is his receipt? Has he been pressurised to issue this statement? By who? Why through a lawyer? Why no affidavit? Why is he not fronting up for a face to face interview by media? Why is he trying to damage the Labour party just before the coming elections? How much has he given to the National party? What favours has he received by the cabinet ministers and by this government? What dirty tricks is National playing behind the scenes? Lots of important questions need answers here.
Well, having observed the recent developments, which are of course a well planned, well paced smear campaign coming from John Key and his underlings, the sad thing is, mud sticks. And the reality is this, John Key’s top drawer is not brimming full with harmful documents and info on Labour and that party’s MPs for no reason.
The decades of adopting a “third way” form of neo-liberalism, thus with the capitalism we have now, the long time of flirting with big business, with rich donors, with wining and dining at high level functions, and with socialising with the top elite persons in society, this has not happened without Labour Members of Parliament, especially former Ministers, having compromised themselves. That is why Labour has lots credit, reputation, support in the traditional and otherwise usual voter base.
All talk of returning to the roots, over recent years, has not been believed by many, and NOT so by me either!
The rot sits deep, and there is much hidden, and sadly Key and his loyal muck-rakers got more than a handful of info at their hands, having worked in a calculated, strategic manner, they seem to have ample of it. Much of the complicit MSM serve his and the Nats’ requests, willingly, but they can do so, they have info that has some value to it.
And such rich, wealthy Chinese business migrants, like Mr Liu, they will not take kindly to being accused, suspected, blamed and put into public disrepute by certain politicians, leaders or not, who come from parties that he once may have donated big to (by way of discrete trusts or in other forms), so they come back with a vengeance.
That is what we are having now, Labour is screwed, this election is screwed, that is for Labour, the party is discredited now, make no damned doubt about it, it is HISTORY, unless a long, painful rejuvenation and reformation happens over a long time.
I told you all months ago, repeatedly, and was lambasted by a fair few, Labour are “gonners”, there is an urgent and absolute need for a new, left or progressive party, that represents what Labour once stood for. The present lot do not deserve to continue sitting in Parliament, and ignoring the needs of the weakest and poorest out here. All their slogans ring hollow. What the f*** have you offered those on benefits in this election? Not much, to be honest, so go and tidy up your mess, and leave the main opposition to the Greens and others now, thank you!
The result of Labour’s and I fear also David Cunliffe’s stuff ups, and hypocrisy, that is that John Key can now make political changes daily, serving the US interests, even defending drone strikes that inevitably will kill innocent, and many other disgusting things that will come.
So we can thank Labour for all this crap that we will soon get under a third term of an equally shallow, hollow, hypocritical, lying and self serving National Party led government. I feel sorry for those on benefits, the full swing of more hate driven “reforms” will be on their way. Shame on you, Labour, shame on you!
phil, today we have something substantial to ask questions about.
Like Edwards you seem keen to get the boot into Labour as often as possible, whether there’s any evidence or not.
These are issues about Labour in the past in government. Nothing to do with Cunliffe, everything to do with the MO of soft neoliberal Labour.
It’s really good to look at such things in the light of substantial evidence, and for Labour to clear out any remnants of neoliberal collusion.
Rick Barker is history. Some of the likes of Mallard, King etc, seen taking Sky City hospitality at sports events…. time this kind of thing was relegated to history.
And generally, we need more transparency around funding for poltiical parties, and measures to lower limits on the amounts of funding that come frome private donations.
Edwards in the article – Edwards, though, has a history of it. I don’t have time to look it up, because I’m about to get ready for work.
You, yesterday and today, so keen to turn questions on Labour without any significant evidence, rather than look closely at what the NZ Herald articles are doing within the context of an up-coming election.
“..You, yesterday and today, so keen to turn questions on Labour without any significant evidence, rather than look closely at what the NZ Herald articles are doing within the context of an up-coming election…”
sigh..!..so..(i repeat)..that was why i was one of the first to call bullshit! on that liu-letter..?
..and to opine that cunnliffe should also call bullshit! on it…and front-foot it..?
..eh..?
..how does that all fit in with yr phils’-secret-plan/agenda narrative..?
..i’m calling bullshit! on you..
..and the longer you/labour twist and turn on this one..the longer it will drag on..
..can you seriously not see that basic/screamingly-obvious political-fact/imperative at play here..?
..and again..when will the man with all the answers from labours; p.o.v…
..former bag-man mike williams..when will he surface..?
..(we all know he isn’t media-shy..eh..?..so..?..)
..if there were no donations..why has he not popped up in the media to call liu out..?
..have you asked yrslf that question..?
..(instead of whipping up messanger-conspiracy-theories..eh…?)
I agree, the HMS Labour is severely listing and if this isn’t sorted and put to bed within the next week or two then Labour is heading to the bottom taking the lefts hope of electoral victory with it.
Yes, you are. Swallowing the Herald’s hackery. Read Geddis at Pundit then pull your head in. If you consider yourself more ethical than a Tory you’ll withdraw your remarks too.
It demonstrates that Mike Williams (just like everyone else) would be a fucking idiot to dance to the National Party’s tune, or do you think they’ll stop playing if you start dancing?
Go on, dance around until you’re exhausted: they’ve got more tunes lined up just as soon as you realise you’ve been had.
Phillip, ”after the fact” is what you should be considering, remember we are talking here of events in 2007,
i said yesterday that i would ”unhappily” concede that Liu had donated a large sum, or large sums of money to the Labour Party when a shred of evidence was produced to that effect,
Lets examine this evidence shall we, ”a firm of lawyers, said to act for Liu gave an anonymous donation to Labour in 2007”,
Now in 2007 can you point to the Herald printing a story which says just that???,
That is the gist of this little sordid tale, not what is now known today in the year 2014, but, what was known in the year 2007 when the firm of lawyers made this donation on behalf of ”anonymous”…
phillip. You were stating it as fact and it is not fact even yet. The column in the Herald says $150,000 but does not back that up other than “Mr Liu said.” There is nothing in the returns to back it up. You might have just said “it was rumoured that Mr Liu…. ”
Anyway the damage has been done because people will say either ho hum, or those tricky Labour people, or best maybe the whole system of clarity of donation be refined. Who knows?
Oh, we talked to Liu, he signed a document that we’re not going to show you (never mind that he wouldn’t sign an avadavit) and he says x, y, z. We’re not going to give you any detail of that (like where and when the auction was), you’ll just have to take our word for it. Even better, we’ve got our tame ‘political commentator’ who says LABOUR ARE CORRUPT, and we’re going to print lots of his words without telling you where they came from, or why he should be trusted. Oh, and we’ll throw in some editorialising from our chief reporter, like how embarassing this is for Labour, because why have independent neutral reporting when you can do what the fuck you like and influence the election of a nation state?
Also, phil, we are in election mode. The NZ Herald is leading a strong smear campaign aimed to destabilise Labour and the Left, in order to undermine the chances of a left government forming. We shouldn’t let the Herald lead us around by the nose. We need to ask wider questions, not just related to the ones they have raised about Labour.
The author, Bevan Hurley, says the NZ Herald has a signed statement by Liu from May 3. This must be the afidavit that lawyers were reported to be poring over a couple of days ago. Clearly it didn’t pass the legal tests, and was reported to lack documentation.
So, we still need to see some documented evidence off the claims. How trustworthy are Liu’s signed statements?
I agree that this is a concerted attack against Labour by NZH, but I also think Mike Williams should be fronting this, this is a governance issue and its important that Labour’s record keeping is maintained at the highest standard. Unfortunately I suspect that William’s and co have just replicated the National Party’s practices, and unfortunately this is the outcome…The NZ Herald attacks Labour. As a matter of Principle Labour should always, always operate at 100% transparency.
This could turn out to be a load of bull shit, but obviously Labour’s record keeping isn’t at a level that we can say with 100% certainty that it is. The executive need to get things in order after September, I suspect that as National anticipated, this is the issue that will cost the Left the government in the next election. Its on Mike Williams head.
The problem Cunliffe has is that distancing himself will be very difficult. There are a number of current mps from the previous govt still there and the letter which while completely above board is enough to tie him to liu in the public’s eyes.
As for transparency im not sure he has a lot of credibility there either he did after all set up his own trust system.
Its starting to look like Labour are no better than National when it comes to suspect funding practices. Disappointing.
Why not show the commitment to fixing this via proposing a particularly strong sort of campaign finance reform and heavy consequences for breaching the rules? Something too strong for National to support and including something new.
Then every time they say “you did this dodgy thing” You can say – “the policy to fix it is on the table – and you oppose it”
Then there are three possibilities
1) the policies suggested were weak policies designed to look strong but designed to catch no one.
2) National blocked the policies and they should get a bloody nose for being the real problem.
3) Labour/National and other parties should be prosecuted under these rules.
The Lui “scandal” is very much National demonstrating the principle that; the best defense is a strong offense. We Greens may be trying to run a campaign on a pittance, but now that Labour are all but neutralised on calling-out dodgy funding, hopefully our MPs will be on the Tories case about their donors from now on.
I am so looking forward to a Turei vs Woodhouse debate down here in Dunedin North.
“The NZ Herald is leading a strong smear campaign aimed to destabilise Labour and the Left, in order to undermine the chances of a left government forming.”
With strong support from Fairfax and TV3. Both have been on constant attack all week. The blatant propaganda has been gobsmacking. I’ve made a complaint to Fairfax but am yet to do so with 3. Will do as soon as I get a chance.
Respect to David Cunliffe for being centred, calm, strong and articulate throughout
They’re probably busy running it by their lawyers first @David.
I wonder who’s going to front on Kathryn Ryans “From the Right ….. & From the Right” tomorrow. Will it be Mr Williams? or will Ms Pagani be drafted in?
Geddis has checked Labour’s donation records for 2007 and reports that there are several donations of significant amounts paid through lawyers from undisclosed clients – including one of $150,000.
BUT Geddis also points out that such donations were totally legal under the electoral donations law in place in 2007. AND that any wrongdoing under the law in place in 2007 is well past the 6 month deadline for prosecution under that law.
If Geddis and Edgeler are correct, then neither the Police nor the current Parliament can investigate.
I would also point out that Liu has claimed that he gave equal amounts to Labour and National or something similar. Therefore IMO, if there are ongoing pushes to investigate the donations to Labour, then there should also be the same investigations into Liu’s donations to National.
IMO, if these donations to National were later than those to Labour and were under the much tighter electoral donations law which have come in over more recent years, and if the donations did not meet the more recent requirements, National could find themselves in deeper water than Labour …..
I don’t quite get all of this. There was an auction/raffle used to raise funds. (And sure, that’s potentially dodgy or ‘less than up front’ on a number of levels) But unless the details of all winning bids are routinely recorded for parliamentary rules’ sake, the fundraising is fundraising and not donations per se.
Good point/question , Bill. I am not not familiar enough with party fundraising etc or election donations law (and the changes over the years) to comment, but would really like the views of the likes of Geddis or Edgeler on this. Perhaps Mickey Savage could throw some light on this.
NZ Femme said yesterday that money raised in such auctions gets collated, and that total amount is declared not the individual amounts. Presumaby then Labour wouldn’t have a record of the individuals. If this is true, then Labour needs to explain that (given the MSM don’t seem capable of doing their job properly).
Nice info veuto. At last someone dealing with facts.
From what you say it is now simple: under the law as then in place there would be no record of Liu’s Labour party donation in Liu’s name. Presumably there is similarly no record of Liu’s National party donations for the same reason.
The only story here is that Williamson, in intervening for Liu, ignored the separation of powers, a fundamental tenet of democracy, and so was justifiably sacked.
Why can’t Labour simply say the above and nothing else?
Agreed. May I add Woodhouse meeting Liu in a hotel room to discuss immigration issues is still a much bigger story than the MSM have led the public to believe.
Q: When did a Minister last visit your home to hear your policy views?
Mike Williams has said that money raised in auctions is collated and the gross sum is recorded rather than individual items. And he said that in handling the raising of millions of dollars over the years from hundreds of different donors no one would stand out. The evidence does not show that Liu donated a large sum of money. Liu’s name does not occur on any of the official Parliamentary records.
Check the record. All the parties had donations from Trusts and lawyers and the names of the donors remain anonymous. As with National at the time. http://www.elections.org.nz/parties-candidates/registered-political-parties-0/party-donations/party-donations-year/1996-2007
Actually a bagman collects dirty money. As with your other claims lately there’s no proof that money donated to Labour has been obtained through forgery, bribery or thievery.
In fact there’s no proof that Mike Williams has ever accepted a donation of money that’s been illegally transferred or utilized for unscrupulous endeavours.
You really do need to get a grip on reality there phillip ure and stop defaming somebody without a shred of evidence for doing so. Otherwise you’ll simply end up looking like a fool!
Care to provide a link showing that Mike William’s describes himself as a bagman phillip ure? I can only find a references to Owen Glen saying:
Mr Williams was really a “bag man for the Labour Party” who wouldn’t take “a second breath unless the prime minister tells him too”.
But that’s pretty much it. Do you think Owen Glen was referring to Williams as carrying bags of money? I don’t think so. Don’t try to weasel out of your defamatory statements by claiming words have different meanings. That’s about as pathetic as it gets.
It’s funny how you respond when challenged phillip ure with baseless ad hominems…spitting and cursing that I must be drunk or stoned because I dared to question your “wisdom” lol. Is that because your low self-esteem cannot accept the fact that you’re wrong?
Do you actually have a link for William’s referring to himself as a bagman phillip ure, or was that just another brain fart?
I think you might be getting bagman confused with moneybags. Bagman has a very specific meaning that you shouldn’t misconstrue. It means somebody who accepts dirty money. There is no other meaning to that word. Unless you’re trying to say that Mike Williams accepts dirty money it might be best to use a different word.
Phil, your memory is faulty; it was Owen Glenn who referred to Williams as a bagman (and a liar) during the Winston Peters donation row. Mind you, Mike Williams does have an excellent sense of humour, so perhaps you might be able to find some instance of him joking along those lines, but I’d be very surprised.
Bagman is a derogatory term with a long history, and these days it actually is often used in a political context. Pretty sure it comes from the racing industry, where illegal bookies never carried cash themselves, but had a stooge nearby. I’ve heard it used in Aussie politics many times, but it’s not something someone would normally refer to themselves as, as its clearly an insult.
“Labour has an “optics problem”. It has to explain how as a party it managed to completely forget that this guy was splashing around tens-of-thousands of dollars at its fundraisers a mere 7 years ago.”
I have no trust left in the Labour Party as a competent organisation. It seems like it just wanders blindly from one trainwreck to another in the last year. I don’t know if that’s Cunliffe’s fault, but it hasn’t really improved much since he’s taken over.
Seven years is a long time now. I frequently deal with govt departments and large private companies who have no institutional memory lasting that long. As far as I can tell this is due to high turnover of staff and the demise of public service careers or people not longer working for one business for a long time. Probably also something to do with restructuring and the attempt to undermine existing structures within organisations. I have no idea what’s happened with Labour, but if it’s true that donations at auctions are recorded in total not individually, then I can easily believe that there is no-one around who can explain these donations. And if the rules of the day allowed such recording of auction donations, then I don’t see what the issue is now.
Myself, I have no trust left in the MSM. Bryce Edwards should be ashamed of himself. I know this isn’t new, but this election is being manipulated by the MSM as much as NACT and Crosby Textor and there’s something different about it. Maybe just the blatancy. If something doesn’t change bloody soon this is the end of our democracy.
Its already gone. No one from the 20 yrs upwards is really interested unless its an App on their phone and the older genereation just want to be left alone and able to survive. Two large demographics that are on the margins and hence have no democratic voice. Maori are getting more and more tribal and the immigrants wish they had choosen Australia. Here is another section of society that will either vote for their elder or not at all. So roughly 60% of the population are not engaged because no one is really inteersted in them and their ideas and thoughts. National is a party of the minority wealthy and they will be voting, mark my words. So status quo remains, everyybody has an aha experience and things will just slowly deteriete further. No guts no glory. Many comments I read here are more concerned with party internal issues then the wider picture that affects the generation that should be the one leading in the future. It all looks more and more like Mad Max to me.
Ha ha ha. Today Colin Craig is going to CHOOSE the electorate he wants to stand in. How sick is this. Key is going to have his work cut out for him with this little charade. He’s going to end up a laughing stock.
Millsy
OMG I never thought of that.
The (unconvicted) crim. Banks as associate Minister of Education with his attempts to privatise our tax payer funded schools was bad enough.but Craig!?
Who took Mr Liu’s $150,000? How many laws were broken? Will the defense be
a It wasn’t Cunliffe
b It was years ago
c Just a National smear
d Just a NZH smear
e Yeah , but what about X,Y and Z that National did
f All of the above!
Nope, the “defence” is that you can’t even get Liu’s statement correct. He claims to have given $100,000 at an auction fundraiser – most likely this was bundled with the rest of the auction bids and counted as one donation – and spent $50,000 wining and dining an MP who isn’t in Parliament any more.
There was no $150k to “take”.
And as Andrew Geddis has covered (veutoviper linked to his post above) on the face of it, no laws were broken at all.
If the prominence given to the ‘story’ by the Herald and Fairfax is anything to go by the public has already moved on.
Political parties accept donations, Maurice Williamson interfered in a police investigation and Judith Collins tried to cover up a massive conflict of interest. As for the $150k, let’s see Liu’s accounts for the relevant time period. They’ll be listed as charitable donations for tax purposes I expect.
If not, I suppose it’s in the same category as the undeclared $1m I gave to National.
A donation to a political party is not, as I understand it, a charitable donation and could not therefore be claimed as a tax deduction.
Good try though.
I wonder if Mr Liu still has the fabled bottle of wine?
Then why did John Key lie about a charity golf game?
Perhaps it was listed in his accounts as petty cash withdrawals. Either way it’s up to him to provide evidence. If and when he does, and it turns out the declared $150k donation is his, I expect you’ll demonstrate personal responsibility, withdraw, and apologise.
What is relevant than going back to historical donations etc given/received during the past rules, would be to investigate and open all the donations given to political parties and their accounting AFTER the new electoral finance law was passed.
Certainly this donation issue needs to be revisited and all loopholes plugged.
Personally I would like all donations or fund raising of say $1,000 or more from any individual or entity to be declared, transparent and non-anonymous.
I would like clean non corrupt politics and way of life in New Zealand. If someone wants to donate to a party, they should have the integrity and courage to do it openly.
Cue law firms accepting one thousand paper transactions for one thousand dollars each then declaring the $800,000 donation as coming from one source: the law firm, and collecting a tidy fee for administering a trust fund.
When suggesting solutions, please try and avoid proposing existing loop-holes as panacea.
Most political parties have fundraising auctions. People donate things and other people bid on them. When Labour was in government the Chinese arrived at the fundraising events of prominant MPs, particularly Helen and Cabinet Ministers. They seemed to be competing with each other to show off their wealth and gain prestige from outbidding each other. Fortunately, as soon as the Government changed, they buggered off to suck up to the Nats. They will now be paying silly money to play golf with John Key.
Wouldn’t they want to know who it is so they can get more money later on? How many organisations anywhere wouldn’t bother to note an individual that gave them that much money?
Labour has plenty of supporters in the Chinese community who could overcome language barriers.
The relationship between party staff and a donor is a curious one. If the donation comes with expectations, for example, the best thing staff can do is show the donor the door. They certainly don’t want them anywhere near an MP.
We know what National sells its owner/donors: face time with the PM and ministers, legal and regulatory changes, openly offered for sale. It’s brazen, and apparently the Police and SIS aren’t interested even when the Auditor General expresses concern.
Time to put a stop to it, whether or not ‘he did it too’.
No Ant. The Nearly $100,000 was for a bottle of wine at a fund raiser. As with the current National fundraiser at Antoinette’s (sp?) the money raised is collated and presented as a lump sum. And back in the 2000s the rules were even slacker.
Therefore could it be argued that each person who donated money for the dinner must be named?
I don’t care so much about electoral donation laws and how they are gamed, even informally recorded, competent party administrators should notice someone dropping heaps of money so they can approach them for future donations, it’s unbelievable that an organisation wouldn’t note someone down who is currently donating large sums and who could potentially provide more large sums in the future.
All the public will see is that they have been bored shitless with Labour and their mates in the MSM raving on about Collins, Williamson et al, and now they are shown to be much, much worse. The one thing the public hate about politicians is hypocrisy.
So even if Liu won’t sign an affidavit (thus protecting himself) he has stated an event and a date, 2007.
There must be records of this transaction somewhere. $100,000 is a chunk of change in any party’s bucket. Which means IRD will probably have a record of it from Liu’s accounts, which means Liu will have a record of it. – Who does not make note of a $100,000 political donation?
Important reality moment though, if it was a cash payment, there will be a bank record of the cash withdrawl transaction. The transaction has a date, the bank search will not be difficult…. or does Liu just have hundreds of thousands of dollars in ready cash just lying around.
If Liu’s records can show the transaction then Labour’s records should as well but if it turns out a $100,000 donation ‘got lost’ by Labour then every person involved must be promptly put on the bus. A bus that seems to be picking up passengers from both sides of town the longer it stays on the road.
In light of this information it now appears that Labour has information to go forward on and seeing as nothing was done against the rules, National’s donations must be given the same forensic eye.
Imho, what has transpired on the Big Liu Bus highlights how our entire political funding protocols need to be made more publicly transparent. Sounding a bit like a stuck record I know but I beleive the EDRNZ is an idea worth investigating and every single person I have had personal discussion with on the concept has agreed . . once they get past the unadulturated simplicity of the concept.
“As with the current National fundraiser at Antoinette’s (sp?) the money raised is collated and presented as a lump sum. And back in the 2000s the rules were even slacker.
Therefore could it be argued that each person who donated money for the dinner must be named?”
— in that circumstance ianmac the EDRNZ receives the sum total and the event keeps a legally required log of the individual donor details for any sum over [$1000] or whatever figure is deemed the threshold for anonymous donations.
I beleive $1000 is a fair limit as the only time anonymous donations should be accepted is through bucket collections/raffles and similar low volume collections. Charging 5k a plate and having twenty people at a very private dinner suddenly be anonymous is a slap in the face for anyone being told by the abusers of the system that transparency matters. If a donor is not happy being identified supporting a party, I woud ask that party why their money should be acceptable.
Interesting freedom though are you saying that that is the system or that it should be the system? What is the EDRNZ?
Meanwhile back in 2007…
PS gone back and reread your post @9.2
“i do not have permission to edit this comment” error
I have one thing to add, the longer this teacup is allowed to overflow the more I am convinced major reform is essential. The one reform I think is imperative is that commercial entities of any sort should be banned from donating to political parties.
if Antoine’s wants to donate, then their owner can donate.
If a board reckons their company should donate then see what the workers think and see who actually wants to chip in. Otherwise the owner can use their own cash.
Having a corporate structure does not mean it is a commercial enterprise. Charities, unions and similar community groups are not commercial entities and should be allowed to donate. Lobby groups will certainly find ways to work around this but if they have a corporate structure that passes the commercial entity rule then the identity of the corporate structure is still on record.
or they all just donate lots and lots and lots of $999 donations, which come corporate reporting time, would be interesting entries to explain 🙂
I missed this yesterday (not Key’s remarks, but as I/S’s succinct response – as they rarely post on the weekends):
Asked to confirm whether his Government had ever made a decision to actively rejoin Five Eyes, Key responded: “I don’t think that’s right, but I remember there were some vague things…” He then said he would check.
This is a major change to our intelligence and foreign policy; how can the Prime Minister (and Minister in charge of the GCSB) not know about it? Did he just not notice? Or did the spies not tell him (effectively running their own foreign policy without any democratic mandate whatsoever)?
But are we talking about this on Open Mike? No, the topic of discussion is still predominantly the carefully orchestrated Lui story. The US secretary of state states:
“we don’t have to ask, this is one where we know that New Zealand stands with us.”
And we just keep chewing over the gristle of Lui’s alleged donations.
The US governments commits us to a war in a Iraq supposedly without even asking our PM who was in Washington at the time (and attending briefings at the Pentagon)! As a Green Party member, this seems much more important to the country than blowing more oxygen onto the embers of a nonscandal.
Thanks for that, it was late by the time I had a look at the site yesterday and got caught up at comment 12 (trying to educate fisiani about why rushing legislation to allow logging protected forests was not in the nation’s interest – a futile task; but perhaps educational to onlookers), and didn’t make it back to comment 2.
CV had a good point that; “Probaby we were still feeding the network full info but they were cutting back our access privileges”. Karol, Rosie & DTB were certainly onto the; “There were some vague things” line of Key’s.
Folk are discussing it in the wider world though.
The released notes are being distributed.
In NZ and in America and in Europe there are now hundreds of co-operative kiwis who want some answers. Some of these kiwis are, shall we say, a bit upset and these are not people who generally comment on blogs, but their anonymous activities are often discussed there.
I hope those anonymous types do keep on ensuring further releases of notes. Trusting that our elected representatives will exercise there duties with respect to the will of the nation seems more of a mugs game than ever these days.
This over at TDB is pretty good by Bomber’s standards (there’s been some thought gone into finding links and quotes, rather than his just posting a nice turn of phrase without further reflection). The Youtube video won’t play for me though, so I don’t know if this is entirely accurate; “Key’s concern was that if we didn’t rush into this immoral [2003 Iraq] war with America we may miss out on a free trade deal”.
What is most disturbing about Key’s expolitative vitriol is the timbre he delivers it in.
It is not that of a senior statesman discussing the true costs of the horrors of war.
It is kin to a pissed munter stumbling along with his mates egging each other into a strip club.
“it doesn’t mater that they are offerring up bodies and all the rest of it”
is one particular line that exposes the vacuous cavity that is that man’s soul.
“In the end it’s over to you” was a nice appropriation of a Key line at the end of the clip (I guess 2003 was before Parliament video online, so quite a good edit).
With us set to be aiding the drone-bombing of Iraq, this is timely information:
Since the outbreak of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, military drones have malfunctioned in myriad ways, plummeting from the sky because of mechanical breakdowns, human error, bad weather and other reasons, according to more than 50,000 pages of accident investigation reports and other records obtained by The Post under the Freedom of Information Act…
Military drones have slammed into homes, farms, runways, highways, waterways and, in one case, an Air Force C-130 Hercules transport plane in midair…
Several military drones have simply disappeared while at cruising altitudes, never to be seen again…
Frank W. Pace, president of aircraft systems for General Atomics, the leading producer of large military drones… [said] “We’ve never reported a loss of life,”
I particularly like that; “We’ve never reported a loss of life”, because of course the first thing the survivors of a family who’d been killed by falling death-machine debris would do is to complain to the manufacturer and occupying army.
so an easy fix is to play the url in our buddy VLC -playlist- advanced open -add url –
Haven’t tried that. My usual response to a youtube video not playing is to download it via a video capture tool in Firefox (This can’t be done in Chrome as Chrome prevents video capture tools from doing that).
It is how I normally stream Parliament TV, as PTV is windows/mac only and I use ubuntu.
‘video downloadhelper’ is the best I have seen for keeping up with youtube.
Might be the odd time where downloading is not possible as downloadhelper catches up with youtube changes but never more than a day or so.
Today’ Q&A – Michelle Boag, leaves one breathless. There are a few numbers of possibilities if she denies the reason of the Iraq invasion under Bush: Nativity, Propaganda, Alzheimer’s, Loyalty blind and uncritical. Have I missed something?
Right after that an interview with Rosa Delauro, Democratic Representative USA Connecticut. How refreshing, an educated women not afraid to call a spade a spade with eloquence and tact.
She points out that the Bush administration has lied to the people of the US taking them into war with Iraq. In regards to Trade, under the Nafta agreement they have lost 800000 jobs. She points out that agriculture agreement will impact on wages in NZ with Vietnam being part of that paying 28c per hour. That means job losses.One does not have to agree with everything she said but one needs some good research and facts to counter act.
Of cause the Republicans want to push ahead as quickly as possible. John Boozman makes diplomatic good noises saying that the US people like NZ but cant figure out how to get here as it is so far away(???). He wants fair trade not free trade, sounds good but fair has had a bit of a partisan connotation if you look at past records and one wonders fair for whom?
Dairying – increased competitions will be a factor (impacting on NZ) but he hopes that will be sorted out. My thoughts: Maybe Nzlanders will get also 28c per hour?
War in Iraq: Of cause this impacts on Oil prices….
Back to Michelle Boag, little NZ – representing the ineptitude of the politician here and the difference could not be more obvious.
The tragedy is that it is these voices who will “represent” the ordinary people who have even less of a clue. Good defend NZ.
Robert Reid on Qand A was an absolute buffoon yet again. What on earth is this class warfare he keeps banging on about? His 1970’s Communist learnings are so last century. No wonder Michelle Boag was exasperated. He is not of this planet.
Robert Reid was spot on, I enjoy and appreciate the way he cuts through the crap. He makes the program worth watching. He raises the standard of debate when he is on the commenting panel. Really great to see someone of his calibre being aired on TV. Well done to Q&A for having him on the show.
I think Robert Reid was a bit flustered as he was trying to respond to Michelle Boag – she is an old lady whose world is only save if she believes her own propaganda. Let he go into retirement she is what you might call – past it.
Old Botox Boag showed just how mad she is by trying to justify Americas’ so called ‘war on terrorism.’ Invading Iraq then pulling out and leaving the place in disarray is so typical of how the Yanks operate. Prior to the invasion Iraq had a lot better systems like health & education than America & probably New Zealand. Where was the democracy in Husain’s hanging? Yip about the same as Bin Laden’s illegal assassination.
Cunliffe was quite right in pointing out that the focus should be on political policy, something that National are piss weak in. Susan Wood is a has been jurno quite a terrible interviewer compared to The Nations front lady. I’ve always considered her to be a bit of an air head.
Great to see Bob Reid back on Q&A countering Boags horse shit dribble.
Yes rightly pointed out Phil, and as in any war there is a fortune to be made by the captains of greed. GW Bush father and son lined the pockets of their political backers to the tune of billions through contracts like Black Ops, and reconstruction.
:).
I’m going to get shit for the following I am damn sure!!!
Juggling Sunday (with Wallace), Q+A with Suzie (Dear), and The Nation (with “for Christ’s Sake Liza shut the fuck up and let them finish answering the question”) can be a problem.
But in our MSM representations, I’ve noticed how those that are ANGRY but who profess ‘assertiveness’, male and female alike seem to end up with bloody great verticle wrinkles above their top lip. I now understand what my somewhat racist/mysogynist father once banged on about.
The top lip verticle wrinklers characterise themsleves by utterings like:
“The fact is ……”
“Oh rubbish….”
“There is no Alternative..”
“End of Story!!!! …”
….. and no other difference of opinion matters OR should be tolerated.
In today’s MSM offerings, check out Michelle Boag, and indeed Suzie herself, plus Pagani’s developing verticles.
It’s sad that the above are all female, because it affects male and female alike.
…. and of course I do have a neighbour that’s a Vein (aka Vain) Doctor and into all that Caci Clinic shit who (with his wife) drives around in a black Penis extension the both of them have no spatial awareness of size (whether crossing lanes, or pathetically trying to park).
I’ll delve into it further. Boag’s are especially revealing though.
Hi Tim
Pass on your findings. I have been air travelling lately and looking at my ‘fellow
travellers’ I noticed some that looked as if everything had been grim since they read fairy stories.
I am getting anxious that reading the news and political columns will result in a similar unpleasant expression on my face that will set forever. At the end of this year I don’t want to find I look like a Shar Pei dog!
I tried to edit but didn’t have permission to do so but it was as follows
EDIT: Oh and just in case you’re thinking this is an affront to the female form …. I’ll give you a generalisation about males that comes from living with a few .
Bear potted males are bloody useless aims when pissing. I’m not sure whether it’s ‘cos they can’t see their own dicks, or whether they’re just slovenly, but the yellow liquid around the base of the toilet says it all!
Of course though I expect shit thrown at me, I’d rather see intelligent discussion on non-superficial stuff, with a diversity of opinion given free reign.
(even if it is PU versus Bad12) :p
Tim
We are a wide-ranging discussion forum here. Toilets have their place, they are not to be taken lightly, and toilet humour by nature, tends to be robust. But eeeyuuh get cleaning the one you mention soon. And then have a look at Mrs Brown’s Boys on tv – there is plenty of robust humour to match. Just found it recently.
Different tribes celebrated Matariki at different times. For some it was when Matariki rose in May/June. For others it was celebrated at the first new moon, or full moon, following the rising of Matariki.
My whanau have always treated it as pretty much synonymous with solstice, which may not be that traditional but is convenient. Anyway, in Waipounamu it’s pretty rare that you can either; see past the clouds, or endure the frosts at 5am in winter to see the stars. Especially in Otepoti/ Dunedin where I’d have to drive to Aramoana or to a Peninsula beach to have a chance of seeing the eastern horizon then.
The Herald’s stance on Labour’s historical donations are priceless considering how they acted when Labour reformed the laws around electoral donations making it more transparent.
Folks, confirmation that the Brass Razoo Solidarity band will be busking in Cuba Mall today between 1 – 2pm as a little fundraiser for People’s Power Ohariu. Come down and have a chat and if you have any loose change, we will gladly help lighten you of it’s load 🙂
We’ll either be near the Manners St end or on the stage south of the bucket fountain. Follow the sound!
Good luck, Rosie. I had hoped to get there, but now have friend coming with trailer to take garden rubbish to the tip – bad timing on tip trip, but beggars can’t be choosers etc etc
Hi veutoviper, nice that you had considered coming along 🙂
A friend with a trailer is a friend indeed! What a good feeling to be getting rid of all the garden rubbish – a chore at the best of times. A well deserved cuppa should be in order at the end of it.
What an understanding exchange on practicalities between Rosie and veutoviper.
I hope you have a good showing with good takings at Cuba mall Rosie, and that the wind doesn’t blow spray on you from the water sculpture – thinking of fresh Wellington winds. A trailer in the hand is worth two dozen in others’ backyards!
The hypocrisy by some of the posters at this site is astonishing.
As i have said for a very long time Labour is every bit as bad as National and David Cunliffe is at best cringeworthy.
If the left truly want change to take place in the NZ political landscape we need to strongly support real parties of the left and consign Labour to the scrap heap or a merger with their spiritual home in the National party.
Letting yourself be led by the nose by John Armstrong is a bad look, especially in light of Geddis’ contribution over at Pundit.
A singular feature of any anti-Labour story the National Party cooks up is the number of alleged lefties jumping on the bandwagon, hand-wringing, defeatist, and in the next breath they’ll tell you the Left needs unity.
This is cringe : “They strolled the White House South Lawn, checked out the president’s putting green, had a squiz at Obama’s back orifice and First Lady Michelle Obama’s famous veggie garden, and part of the White House the family use.” “It was cool”
tinfoilhat
‘As I have said for a very long time’ – you can say that again, and you will I am sure. Yoicks! Don’t you ever stop. Take up lawn bowls or riparian planting or something useful you can manage why don’t you.
David Cunliffe is doing a good job. Death by a thousand cuts and poisoned arrows from people such as yourself is hard to withstand and I think he is doing well. Go for it our David and don’t think of simply being against Goliath, the opposition you have from NACT is more like a male Gorgon.
Your first priority should be kicking out this present National government and its coalescing partners.
Your second priority should be not to undermine the Labour party and thus damage your chance of getting rid of National.
…if you go back to the financial returns from political parties for 2007, there is listed a donation to Labour of $150,000 from “Palmer Theron, Solicitors, on behalf of an undisclosed client”…
Pretty easy to clear up. Let Liu open all his books for the last ten years to an impartial third party: I suggest the Inland Revenue Department.
The 100k for a bottle of wine, if true, did not have to be declared any more than John Key’s 50k tie. Even wretched authoritarian followers like you don’t obey the laws that haven’t been passed yet.
Yes, it was legal, but what about the “image” of Labour, spending much time accusing National of “crony capitalism”, of “access for cash”, of the use of “cabinet clubs” to raise cash, and exploiting such electioneering slogans and topics?
It smells of hypocrisy, and that is how the public will perceive it.
Cunliffe did not help with his trust to raise funds for his leadership campaign. He (justifiably) can still withhold names of two donors to his campaign, but it does not look good!
There has been a lot coming together, and while it is of course a smear campaign, it is opening a pandora’s box, and reveals again the past actions of Labour in fund-raising and more.
So the Nats have come with a return fire attack, and nobody talks about policy, while the media just loves such stuff, digging up “dirt”, or supposed “dirt” and “scandals”, to get more readership, viewers and listeners, justifying more advertising sales and charges.
Labour did not do their homework, and they still carry the past load of baggage, from when they were in government, and courting rich and powerful, to donate to them, same as National and ACT.
I have a confession. I secretly donated one trillion dollars to the Labour Party. Ok, I’m not going to sign an affidavit to that effect, but I will allow the Herald to claim I’ve said that in a statement, though I’d prefer it they didn’t actually show anyone the statement or say how they got it.
I’m not convinced Liu made such a donation. Interesting that it has now gone from $15,000 to $150,000. Just alter the comma and add a naught- easy-peasy. I guess that’s the point of TRP @ 18. 🙂
Why would someone like Liu, who is on record as having a tendency to suck up to those in power, make an anonymous donation of $150,000 through a legal firm? Surely, he would want those in power to know he had made the donation. He certainly made sure the Nats knew about his donations. Very strange.
…if you go back to the financial returns from political parties for 2007, there is listed a donation to Labour of $150,000 from “Palmer Theron, Solicitors, on behalf of an undisclosed client”…
I know you won’t take personal responsibility for your lies, so I’ll take advantage of this opportunity to draw attention to your hypocrisy as well as your dishonesty.
dimebag russell
Try to keep the comments straightforward and cut the creeping xenophobia, it doesn’t aid intelligent political discussion. I thought that is what you were aiming at – showing us your intelligence and incisive, crisp comment.
I thought David Cunliffe was great on Q&A his morning. Feel very encouraged, especially as Key has gifted the Labour Party a major point of difference with his toadying up to Uncle Sam.
Funny watching that, it’s like journalists still haven’t got that the membership, affiliates, and caucus decide on the Labour leadership, Cunliffe’s only “gone” after the election if it’s the democratic will of the party.
Why? What has Labour done that you think is so wrong?
Oh that’s right, Maurice Williamson interfered in a police investigation, Liu looks dirty by association with Williamson, and Labour look dirty because The New Zealand Herald says they do.
greywarbler.
If you choose to see anything offensive in my (possibly poor) attempt at humour, then that is exactly what you will see. Nothing offensive was intended.
I’ll lay odds that all the political parties will in future be extremely careful about any financial dealings with Chinese businessmen.
Don’t be such a sensitive wee sausage!
wyndham
Don’t be such a fool. Of course we have to be careful in our dealings with wealthy powerful nations, USA, Germany, UK, indonesia, Brazil, India, China etc and none of those is entirely trustworthy. France sent bombers employed by their government and blew up a ship in our docks, they dropped nuclear bombs in our part of the world, the USA is planning to conscript our forces for their alternative army to the UN.
We have to be alert about financial and other problems from all nations, and not get caught up in prejudicial language and stereotypes. There is great trouble for us ahead as we try and keep our heads above a tide of global hegemony of wealth swamping us from wherever.
Don’t be an insensitive saveloy, aim for a higher cuisine and judicious gourmet language. Following the behaviour and language of tunnel-visioned politicians, was it Collins talking about sausages, would confirm you as a fool.
From No Right Turn: …..Naturally, there’s no mention of a $100,000 donation in Labour’s 2007 party donation return. But there’s a reason for this: our electoral law at the time did not count over-valued purchases as “donations”. So, you could pay $100,000 for a $20 bottle of wine as a backhanded way of slipping a party or a candidate some cash in exchange for a favour, and they would not have to report it in any way to the public. Things have changed since then: In December 2007 Labour passed the Electoral Finance Act……”
Another piece of sanity? I like the bit about: (I guess there’s an alternative explanation that those pundits and insiders are total goldfish with no memory, or ignoring inconvenient facts because they have axes to grind, which is believable. The political scientists OTOH have no excuse because they actively debated the law at the time). http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/
I am listening to Wallace Chapman Professor Dr Jonathan Boston and of course the only person who knows anything about beneficiaries, Lindsay Mitchell. Dr Boston is so dry he must be cracked. Add water and he would leak all over. He is in agreement with a rise for super entrance to 67. That is how we will balance the needs of older and younger. Boston has co-written Child Poverty in NZ. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10181859/Lift-super-age-to-beat-child-poverty
Also he finds ways to advocate against raising the minimum wage.
Then Wallace reads an email pointing out the money wasted on gambling etc and Mitchell has spoken about budget advice.
Why not Susan St John as academic and objective commentator on child poverty instead of neo-lib obssessed right winger Mitchell?
“Why not Susan St John as academic and objective commentator on child poverty instead of neo-lib obsessed right winger Mitchell?”
Perhaps because she has extreme views, and we know what she will say before she even opens her mouth. “Tax rich pricks more and increase the size of welfare checks.” Or words to that effect.
Do you really want people to be living on the streets.
When we had a top tax rate of 66% we had the highest living standards in the world. I people wanted a house, they got one. If people want health care, they got it.
It is greedy people like you who charge high rents from houses, high dividends from power companies, and leave people in poverty.
S Rylands doesn’t want too many people living on the streets, because they’d smell and he’d have to step on them physically as well as by proxy. On the other hand they are a great weapon in the Tory arsenal: “you’re lucky to have a job”.
I was complaining about the poor advice and opinion that I was hearing on Radionz about child poverty. Drylands from Oz, the land of dry, reinforces my point so well.
What the RWs want is to keep repeating their mantras which they know won’t work to solve whatever problem is being discussed, but they fill the time and space, and their talk appears as honest attempts to consider and search for better outcomes.
But no, the discourse just maintains the status quo system which is moulded to suit them, or vice versa for profitable, pragmatic reasons. That is why Drylands can say that Susan St John ‘has extreme views’ – she is outside the accepted discourse.
And nothing is said or done that would make a real difference – no opinion of note is encouraged or acted on which would differ from the mantra, unless it is in a half-hearted way as a pilot. That then will have a period of implementation and then be dropped even if it has good results, or it will go forward but have the guts cut out from it with further but inadequate funding and short time frames. This enables, finally, the RW to say ‘We tried, but it didn’t work’ with hand-wringing Uriah Heep-like.
The talk needs to get to the heart of the matter, and allow for the perceived faults of those having difficulties, which requires a heart, empathy and understanding, not found commonly in the common sense opinions and actions of RWs.
There is no money to fix child poverty – so they say
There is no money to fix youth unemployment – so they say
There is no money to keep Super at 65 – so they say
Yes NZ households have $120B in bank deposits
There is another $200B in managed funds
In May one Auckland real estate company alone sold 1109 Auckland houses for a combined value of $779.6M – that’s in ONE MONTH
Well it looks to me like there’s plenty of money sloshing around the system, its just that we don’t care enough about child poverty, youth unemployment or Super to find the few billion dollars needed a year to sort it all out.
CV Those figures are I am sure coming from you, correct. Where do the unbelievers find them? What link in the stats or tables to get them?
I have just been visiting in the north of the NI and there is money available for lots of things up there. But I was in Northland and some young guys skating along the main route stepped out into the path of my relative’s car and spat at her. Not a good feeling, especially as coping with that in traffic could have resulted in an injury, which would have added injury to insult and I mean for all parties involved.
The bad feelings build as the unemployment, the underemployment, the poverty goes on. And I hear there is the constant experience of employers of useless, rude, careless, and virtually unemployable young people.
Yet after talking to an older very experienced previously builder, and thoughtful man about his dealings with youngsters getting PEP jobs, work experience and training and how useful it was to prepare and motivate the happier youngsters, I can only shake my head in sorrow that nothing is now done like that in a nation-wide program.
This would ensure that there is a basic employment available with working for the dole, doing useful stuff that is not make-work, and with payment incentives for each successful monthly program completed so that would give opportunities to buy clothes, pay off a bike etc and make a life, while still being on the dole, but be a vital, semi-skilled person ready for a job when it became available. I was shown apparently constant newspaper advertisements from companies unable to find employees. The reasons for this difficulty was implied to be that people are too lazy, or their education is inadequate.
But there is no will to run work schemes, to integrate young people into the working community with useful skills and receiving respect from all, by despicable RWs. There is money for all sorts of things, but not for the displaced people. By this I mean those displaced by the bloody neo liberal, free market policies adopted by our government and dominant economists and financiers. It is a disgrace and the smugness and excuses of the wealthy that blame poverty and social disintegration on the victims of the shitty systems that Labour subversives introduced and NACTs happily followed is callous and determined ignorance, and has led to destruction of our society.
And so many people I meet fall into victim blaming, and denigration of the unemployed and beneficiaries. The next step is walling themselves off as in gated communities and arguments about whether charity works and whether people should be allowed to beg, or busk because the hands are out too much and it is unpleasant and a nuisance.
It would cost $280M per year to provide minimum wage jobs to 10,000 young people. Resolving many of the issues that you saw. That would be money flowing into local communities which the government would then tax back into its own coffers over time.
CV Those figures are I am sure coming from you, correct. Where do the unbelievers find them? What link in the stats or tables to get them?
May Auckland house sales for Barfoot and Thompson, 1109 properties for a total of $779.6M
And overall money supply as tracked by the RBNZ is up $32B since April 2012 to over $240B, so the amount of money in the economy is still expanding rapidly BUT very little of it is going to where it is required for our poor and our young.
Thanks CV
Big money going into Whangarei. Near Marsden Point refinery – big open area deemed Marsden City. ready for development. And nearby large numbers of 1970’s Oz style houses in a marina type development with special lock installed to ensure proper depth near houses for regular yachts. Auckland people are trying to sell their places high, and buy north for lower with a tidy sum left over for other purposes.
Big developments in South Auckland with water views and many two storey houses in modern style with colonnades at front door or boxy modern look all with large windows and often no front fences allowed. Lots of plantings and green areas and walkways around and they are set up for wifi or broadband or both, not quite up with it. Pretentious and expensive.
So there is much money expected with return on investment by developers and their financiers, although there is much complaining at the ‘unreasonable’ way that Council loads costs on each section.
We have never needed foreign capital. All we’ve needed is the people to do the job which includes making our natural resources available. This is why we need higher productivity and better education. It makes those people available.
Amazingly enough, it doesn’t take money to make these things available but the political will to change the system.
Any functioning society needs to have a cross generation agreement that the very young are nurtered until ready to go out on their own and in turn the older generation will be looked after. Even animals can do this, but perhaps there are species below that.
The plan to disrupt and distract for the next 16 weeks is well under way. Labour announce a policy and then a few hours later some Labour scandal emerges. Everyone talks about the scandal and forgets the policy. 15 more scandals to go. Thanks for the tip offs by the ABC’s.
If you mean the traitor; Shane Jones, by “ABC’s” [sic] then perhaps, but Lui seems to be a much more likely source.
Your plan is always to disrupt and distract, I assume you’ll continue until your next ban – not just the next 16 weeks. However, I doubt you have any more knowledge of actual National Party tactical intentions than I do.
Your words have that distinctive tone of flatulance from a fizzy anus.
I don’t consider either you or fisiani capable of intelligent debate; but please prove me wrong. I consider my comment at 11 to be an attempt at considered discourse, the one at 25.1 was simply me taunting an idiot. Nor did I say that a toilet was necessarily involved – in his case I regard those words are a merely farting through a RWNJ Santorum of bigotry.
Your neoliberal anti-socialist bullshit on the other hand requires a shovel more than a toilet.
Well SJ is a traitor, given that he supports the lowering of environment and labour market standards to enrich industrialists.
You are a traitor and a scab as well, given that you had solid working class union credentials, and then you support and vote for a party that wishes to destroy the trade union movement, and throw the workers and the most vulerable to the wolves. Do you really want people living in caravans grumpy? Do you really want NZ to go down that road?
Plus you support the continal degradation of air and water quality that will ensure that people will have crippling health effects over an ongoing period.
Some of what you say is true Millsy. I am, what you might call a reformed character. In defense, I would have to point out that my role as union branch secretary and advocate was when we had “solid working class unions”.
Labour certainly is no longer the representative of the workers, and for that matter, nor are the unions.
Nope, after surviving dozens of restructuring a in the Douglas years finished up starting my own business, employ 15 people with offices in Christchurch and Auckland.
My dissatisfaction with the unions began and ended when they worked hand in glove with management to destroy the public sector. The Labour Party under Lange and Clark were the biggest hypocrites imaginable. I see no change.
Nope, we also had jobs in the organization we worked for, union work and advocacy was voluntary and in addition to our normal job.
I just believe that left wing politics has nothing to offer NZ as they are now, in fact none of the major left parties offer much for the workers, the future has to be a high wage economy with a strong currency. I just happen to believe the best way to achieve that is with National (at present).
To deal with TRP first, it was one of the many Railways unions and just got absorbed by whatever took over after the workshops were closed down.
As for Millsy, I think the biggest step towards turning NZ into a sweatshop economy was done during the Douglas/Lange years. The current policy of Left to lower the currency will also have the consequence of lowering real wages.
All the other issues you list might surprise you, the answer is no to all those. You might be surprised that I am actually a bit leftie on those causes. In particular, I think it was the biggest con every to break up the publicly owned electricity system and would support re nationalizing.
The unions as they are do not do their job, prime example the education sector unions, more interested in protecting their patch than the interests of their members to maximize their income based on their ability.
No, the teaching unions want to protect the PUBLIC provision of education. Where as if National had their way, education would be privatised and run by churches and businesses. Like they were prior to 1877. They are already halfway there with charter schools. Science and technology is vital to this country if we want it to prosper, but if our children are being taught that the earth was created by waving a magic wand, then we have no hope.
And then teachers would find themselves as casual employees.
I think you are half right……wrong about currency though. If a business can only survive because it is cheap, it shouldn’t be there. To lower the exchange rate, depress wages and increase import costs just to give an inefficient business the ILLUSION of wealth is stupid.
I understand your concerns about education and if that were the result, I would agree but I just don’t buy into your fears.
I still dont see how a high currency can lead to higher wages.
It has been the case for over 100 years that collective bargaining high union membershiop with strong respect for workers to form and join unions (Peter Jackson doesnt have that respect) (doesnt have to be 100% ) and strong labour protections lead to higher wages. Which is why wages in the US, China and India are low.
Under a high currency, the wages you earn have higher purchasing power. If currency is lowered and wages stay the same, this is a decrease because purchasing power is diminished.
The goal is increased wages with a strong currency, if we are held back by businesses that can only exist because they are cheap, and low wages and currency are the means to that, then we don’t need that business.
It seems obviously that if the dollar is too high, then our exporters suffer and if it is too low, then we end up paying more for imported goods (though smartphones and tablets are something we can do without if needs be).
‘Float’ or peg the NZD within an undisclosed bandwidth of a central parity … but ensure close monitoring by the Reserve Bank against an undisclosed basket of currencies of major trading partners and competitors. This, in theory, allows the government to have more control over imported inflation and to ensure our exports remain competitive.
That was largely borrowed from an economy that has successfully managed their currency.
Have you a better term for one who; takes National MP donations for his Labour leadership campaign, and then promptly flees to a job specially created by National when this revealed in the media?
Bryce Edwards seems to be having his own brand of brain fade. Compare and contrast his opinion on the alleged Liu donation to the Labour Party in today’s Herald, with the Key $50,000 G Tie/ Wong affair. (Reposting this link from yesterday’s open mike in case people missed it)
Similarly, with the purported sale of John Key’s tie for $50,000, a explanation could quite conceivable be made for why this was a business transaction and not a political donation. Although it sounds like a donation to me, the political finance laws are very vague on this. They suggest that a donation might make up that portion of the money exchanged that is above the market price of the good that is sold. But how do you determine the market value of what is arguably a piece of iconic political memorabilia from a leader who is now prime minister?
Just want to remark that if I had such large amounts of disposable cash, then $100 000 for a bottle of wine signed by Helen Clark is more than twice as desirable than a $50 000 tie. I mean, at least I could drink the wine.
So now I’m wondering if Labour will do worse in the coming election then National did in 2002 but more interestingly will Labour bleed off enough votes that the Greens party becomes the single largest left wing party in government
Labour 30% to 34% range; strong gutsy left wing policy, unapologetic and unashamed = top end of the range, weak centrist watered down policy on minor matters = bottom of the range
Get rid of raising the retirement age = 1%-2% boost all round
You would stand around watching the last huia’s death throes would you chris73? Trying to salvage NZs valuable political infrastructure knowing it may disintegrate is not interesting, that is not the right word. Greens cannot replace Labour, it can’t be done.
I wouldn’t compare the Labour party to a bird for one thing besides I never said Labour would become extinct rather its heading for a major hiding at the election and suggesting the damage will be so bad that the Greens may become the the biggest party on the left
Labour approx 27% – 30% Greens approx 10% – 12% were Labour to shed 8% – 10% and the Greens to pick up 7% – 9% of that in the upcoming months then the election will be less about National winning and more about the Greens taking over Labour as the party of opposition
Although were this come to pass I think it would be only temporary as Labours true believers would come back to the fold after a period of time
True but then a couple of weeks ago if I’d have suggested that Labour had taken over 100 grand from a chinese businessman and not declared it I’d have been called (among other things) delusional as well
I’m thinking that in light of the recent events the Greens may well be upgrading their target
If he bought a bottle of wine it didn’t have to be declared. Just like your operator’s $50k tie.
Are you the Central Scrutinizer, here to enforce all the laws that haven’t been passed yet? Or are you simply a pedestrian, partisan ex-squaddy doing your best to imitate a parrot?
That Judith Collins tried to cover up her massive conflict of interest, Maurice did his best to pervert the course of justice, Banksie is going to prison, and since you don’t want to talk about any of that let’s discuss policy? No? Because donations?
Its amusing watching Cunliffe be found out as incompetent over Liu when it was Labour that brought him up but it was even funnier watching Robertson talk about Gotcha politics beside Collins
Of course I’m transparent, I want National to win the election because National are good for the country, I’m less keen on Labour winning because they’d have to bring in a whole bunch of nutters with them and that’d be bad for the country
I don’t think what Collins, Williamson, Banks and Cunliffe did or didn’t do was so bad but so be it smears are done because smears work and both sides use them
Do you think theres any more to come out over this because I think theres more
Oh, I’m sure National are so desperate they’ll do anything but discuss policy, and that they have concocted more smears, but that’s to be expected, cf. Piff et al 2012.
Greens cannot replace Labour, but can take a good chunk of voters from it. Add to it the 1+% of Internet Mana and Labour risks becoming a minor component of the opposition to Key’s next term government.
Latest Roy Morgan poll puts the conservatives at 1.5% and if McCully steps aside then the Conservatives could see 3% so he’d bring in 3-4 MPs with him I guess
Gives him more options and will reinforce the notion that voting for the left is a waste of time so he may still only need the Maori Party and Peter Dunne
He’d be the last cab of the rank but hes still in the rank so my feeling is yes as its better for NZ otherwise it’d be Labour/Greens/IMP/WinstonFirst (maybe) and that’d be really bad for NZ
Google is your friend if you’d like to read their work, but in a nutshell, they (him and et al) show that right wingers are not only stupid (cf. Hodson & Busseri) and terrified of the bogeyman (Kanai et al), their ethics are in the gutter too.
No you won’t. In fact you probably have trouble recognising how your relentless demonstration of gullibility and bad faith makes your pronouncements as reliable as tea-leaves.
Your dreaming 73, even the smile and hugging of babies from John Key won’t get the people of East Coast Bays to vote enough in numbers for the God Botherers Party. It an’t Epsom… dida dang dang dang!
How off putting to National if Key try’s this one on. One thing it says is National are worried the Left will get the vote out. And of course we will in record numbers. I am one of probably a thousand that is taking a week off work to campaign in the final week of the election. We have the numbers out on the streets this time. And don’t you wingnuts hate that aye Hooton, Shrillands and co!
Too funny – a Heartland affiliated moran who in the past has asserted white asbestos poses no measurable risk to health and there’s no scientific evidence to support the belief that inhaling other people’s smoke causes cancer.
Christopher Booker quoting the “Real Science” blog is your proof?
Do you also follow his lead in denying the risks of; passive smoking, BSE, and asbestos? Do you favour the conjecture of Intelligent Design, over the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection?
Anyway, even if true; I can see how this might this might be a blow to the Greens (though there are many reasons to safeguard our ecosphere beyond climate change – it’s just the most pressing). But the left predates this by many decades, if not centuries (depending how one defines the term).
Oh joy, so much hyperbole and lack of actual discussion on what was actually done to the data.
Anyhow, it’ll be the same old bullshit parade that occurred over the land-surface temperature data and corrections and weightings made to the data to avoid biases from local environmental effects (land island heat effects, elevation, etc etc), and thus not cause issues with statistical analysis tools*. Which will be confirmed as the rebuttals start rolling in to Brooker’s evidence free bullshit.
Also, generally if there’s issues with how data is manipulated, it comes up in ye olde journals, not the fucking telegraph of all places, a place more renowned for failing at science 101, particularly with any science that gets in the way of tory politics.
=======================================================
*short version; there’s assumptions that data need to meet in order to use a particular analysis on them, and if not meet or violated it leads to the results being biased or utterly useless, r.e. parametric vs non-parametric and fun with binomial’s, or multiple variable data sets being used for a student T-test instead of being run through an ANOVA or more suitable GLM variant.
Two issues, stick to pollution and I will support you, try to whip up hysteria on Global Warming which is being shown every day to be more of a con, and I just laugh.
not much hope for your grandkids then mate. Hope you live to a ripe old age so you can answer to them why you didn’t take climate change seriously when you had the chance.
I’m still waiting for the price of holiday homes in the Marlborough Sounds to come down, meanwhile Sumner is full of Greenies paying over the odds for waterfront properties.
this will be a real boost for Winston NZF i would have thought…no one likes new immigrants bringing corruption in tow , trying to manipulate and buy our political system and politicians to their own personal material advantage
…. and then when found out ….pointing the finger at other innocent opposition political leaders and parties …aided and abetted by NACT newspaper innuendo and media bias…but no facts as yet …only slander
NZers will take a very poor view of this…. just as they did with Mayor Brown’s goings on and subsequent voting over the casino/convention centre
Becuase people dont seem to realise that immigrants are pushing NZers out of our jobs, schools and universities, because they are putting immigrants first.
The Labour Party President has published a statement re Mr Liu. Cannot find it yet but it does cast doubt on Mr Liu’s credibility. eg There was no fund raiser on the book auction date given by Liu.
Here it is:”Statement from Moira Coatsworth, Labour Party President, Donghua Liu reported allegations – summary of facts
22 Jun 2014
Several media organisations have reported that Donghua Liu claims he purchased a book for $15,000 at a Labour Party fundraiser in 2007. We have found no records of any such purchase. No-one has provided any documentary evidence to us that contradicts our records.
The Herald on Sunday has reported that Donghua Liu has signed a statement claiming he paid “close to $100,000” for wine at a 2007 Labour Party fundraiser. The Herald on Sunday have refused to provide us with a copy of the statement or even let us read the statement. We consider this to be a denial of natural justice.
The Herald on Sunday reports that Donghua Liu’s statement was signed on 3 May 2014, but the paper only contacted us about the statement yesterday. This delay raises serious questions.
The Herald on Sunday have, however, disclosed to us that Donghua Liu’s statement claims the fundraiser was held on 3 June 2007. We have found no record of any fundraiser held on that date.
We have had no approaches from the Electoral Commission or any regulatory agency. We have always cooperated with regulators, and will always do so when required.
We continue to call on Donghua Liu and any third parties who might have information about these allegations, including the Prime Minister, to place what they know into the public domain or to refer to the regulators."
It’s the only way to do it. To be fair to Cunliffe, little of the donation saga can yet be attributed to him so the Party should always have made the running on this.
Any fallout will affect the whole party of which Cunliffe is just the current leader.
Lisa Owen: After the week you’ve had, could it get any worse?
David Cunliffe: Look I actually think this hasn’t been too bad a week at all. What’s happened is that support for me within my team is absolutely rock solid and I think public support has galvanised in the face of what people can see is pretty petty politics by the current government.
Optimism is one thing but this…if he considers that this hasn’t been too bad a week at all then I can’t wait to see how he describes losing the election and leadership
The Cunliffe thinks that Labour are unsinkable but so too did many on the Titanic. I wonder if he will stop the bluster a few minutes before his concession speech or will he still be defiant and know that the specials will be a landslide.
So much easier to simply talk to one another, but for the inconvenient embodiment of “insufficient contact with out-groups” eh. The Herald will go behind a pay-wall soon and then you can haz yr very own Tea Party. That will make everything ok since all right-thinking people will flock to you.
http://www.thepoliticalscientist.org/the-real-story-in-the-fairfax-polls/
Maybe everyone else has already read this but off the sidebar at the Standard there is an intriguing explanation of the Fairfax polling.
This bit was interesting:
“So, the reported support for National between November 2012 and June 2014 appears to show a 10% increase in the proportion of New Zealanders supporting the party. Yet, there are (marginally) fewer people declaring their support for National in June 2014.
Thanks for that link – it’s much what swordfish has been saying (increasing undecided voters as election approaches) but good to see it presented graphically.
I’ve not been commenting on the polls recently as they’re not really worth the time. The thing that struck me recently is that; even though the Ipsos and Roy Morgan polls came out on the same day, with overlapping sample periods, everyone has been quoting the; Labour on 23% (I) rather than 28% (RM).
The problem I have with these polls is the very thing that Puddleglum neglects to discuss (not that I blame him – specifics of polling selection & methodology of commercial polling companies are very elusive):
For now, I’ll ignore all the debates over polling methodology (e.g., landlines versus cellphones, who is more likely to answer phones or agree to participate, etc.).
Also, I think the RM results bear out my contention that their previous poll was a rogue. Sure; the Greens only gained 33% rather than the 50% I predicted, but they are back within the compass of previous results (since May 2012).
As a kid, I used to ask my parents why they couldn’t just build more lanes on the freeway. Maybe transform them all into double-decker highways with cars zooming on the upper and lower levels. Except, as it turns out, that wouldn’t work. Because if there’s anything that traffic engineers have discovered in the last few decades it’s that you can’t build your way out of congestion. It’s the roads themselves that cause traffic.
And our present government wants to build more and bigger roads. Of course, there’s probably some profit to be made by having so many cars on the roads causing all these problems. Lets see:
The oil companies will be making a killing
The roading companies will be doing quite well
The trucking companies will be doing Ok as well
The only people who’ll be worse off will be the majority of people who have to pay those profits and the deadly price of all that pollution.
dont forget there may be NACT hidden agendas here for a hugely increased population…and with this comes monster cities , multi-story buildings/accommodation, infrastructure, traffic , private toll roads/rail etc…..and much more opportunity for NACTS and cronies to make money
….but very little benefit to ordinary NZers who will have to compete for scarce resources against wealthy immigrants….housing, education , hospitals ….and a ruination of the nature/human balance …ie at a huge cost to our natural environment
Grumpy, why do you support the lowering of environmental standards so the air and water can be poisoned and how are you are going to explain to your grandchildren that it was people like to who voted for these standards to be lowered so people can make more money and that is why they cannot swim in the river or have to wear a gas mask then they go out.
While the world is fascinated with Picketty here’s the real gen on inequality.
Capitalists are hoarding because they havn’t screwed us enough to guarantee making profits from our labour.
So stagnation is the story…pending more cuts to wages and conditions and more M&As.
“And in a great new paper to be delivered to the upcoming Rethink Economics conference in London next weekend (http://www.rethinkingeconomicslondon.org/),
Michael Burke shows that this failure to invest is endemic to the major capitalist economies (The Great Stagnation as the Crisis of Investment). Burke shows that gross investment (both business and government and before depreciation) experienced the sharpest decline of all main components of GDP during the Great Recession. Such gross investment is down 5.2% in the OECD since 2008 and as a proportion of GDP it is down from 22% to 20%, reaching a new low since 1960.”
Couldn’t be bothered signing on to access the details of your claim. Please specify to what degree each party is regarded as being “in league with the polluters and plutocrats”. It seems unlikely that the Greens would be equal on such a scale to ACT. But we do have to deal with the world as it is, not how we would like it to be.
Your statement sounds like a justification for nonvoting to me, which I doubt is what those who created the “climatevoter” site intended.
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Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of State Owned Enterprises KiwiRail’s Northland rail upgrade steps up another gear today and will help Northland recover from the impacts of COVID-19, State Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters says. The Government is investing $204.5 million through the Provincial Growth Fund to ...
“Today and every day we stand in solidarity with George Floyd’s family, friends and community who feel pain and fear about his untimely death at the hands of Minneapolis police”, said Green Party Co-leader and Māori Development spokesperson Marama Davidson. ...
Fletcher Tabuteau, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Hon Eugenie Sage, Minister of Conservation The West Coast forests of Mount Te Kinga at Kotuku Whakaoho/Lake Brunner are the latest predator free project to receive Government funding, announced Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage and Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher ...
The Green Party says major freshwater reforms announced today provide the strongest ever protections of our waterways, to help ensure the next generation can swim in the rivers of Aotearoa. ...
The Green Party has begun the process for a Select Committee inquiry into student accommodation, which has been exposed during COVID-19 as an under-regulated sector that straddles students with unfair debt. ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Hon Megan Woods, Minister of Research, Science and Innovation Hon Dr David Clark, Minister of Health Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters, Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods, and Health Minister David Clark today announced a COVID-19 vaccine strategy, ...
Budget 2020 is about rebuilding together, supporting jobs, getting business moving and the books back into the black. It’s an integral part of our COVID-19 economic response, and our plan to grow our economy and get New Zealand moving again.Here’s a quick look at the five top things you ...
The Coalition Government has approved $206 million in essential upgrades at Ōhakea Air Base. Defence Minister Ron Mark said the money would be spent on improving old infrastructure. He said safety issues would be addressed, as well as upgrades to taxiways, accommodation and fresh, storm and waste water systems. "This ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First “I am not persisting with this case just for myself, but for all people who have had their privacy breached. Privacy of information is a cornerstone of our country’s democracy. Without it our society truly faces a bleak future. We now ...
Forestry Minister Shane Jones has introduced a Bill to Parliament that he says will "force more transparency, integrity and respect" for the domestic wood-processing sector through the registration of log traders and practice standards. The Forests (Regulation of Log Traders and Forestry Advisers) Amendment Bill had its first reading in ...
Green MP Golriz Ghahraman is joining over 300 lawmakers from around the world in calling on the big banks and the IMF to forgive the debt of developing countries, in the wake of the COVID crisis. ...
Forestry Minister Shane Jones says concerns that carbon foresters are planting pine trees that will never be harvested are the result of "misinformation". "The billion tree strategy is an excellent idea, unfortunately from time to time it's tainted by misinformation spread by the National Party or their grandees, hiding in scattered ...
The Green Party welcomes funding in the budget to reunite more refugees with their families, ensuring they have the best chance at a new life in Aotearoa New Zealand. ...
This year’s Budget is about rebuilding New Zealand together in the face of COVID-19. Jobs are central to how we’re going to do that.There’s a lot of targeted investment for employment in this year’s Budget, with announcements on creating new jobs, training people for the jobs we have, and supporting ...
Young people in Waikato will be the first to have free access to period products in schools in another step to support children and young people in poverty,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. During term 3, the Ministry of Education will begin providing free period products to schools following the ...
The Minister of Police Stuart Nash has issued the following statement in response to charges filed against three Police officers this morning in the New Plymouth District Court. “Any incident involving a loss of life in Police custody is taken very seriously. The charges today reflect the gravity of the ...
Further temporary changes to NCEA and University Entrance (UE) will support senior secondary school students whose teaching and learning have been disrupted by COVID-19. “The wellbeing of students and teachers is a priority. As we are all aware, COVID-19 has created massive disruption to the school system, and the Government ...
Minister for Racing Winston Peters today announced that the terms for the directors of the Racing Industry Transition Agency (RITA) have been extended to 30 June 2021. Due to the COVID-19 crisis the transition period has been extended to ensure that the Racing Industry Bill can complete its progress through ...
The deadline for landlords to include detailed information in their tenancy agreements about how their property meets the Healthy Homes Standards, so tenants can see the home they are renting is compliant, has been extended from 1 July 2020 to 1 December 2020. The Healthy Homes Standards became law on 1 July 2019. The Standards are ...
Justice Minister Andrew Little today announced details of further appointments to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. “I am pleased to announce Paula Rose QSO OStJ as Deputy Chief Commissioner for a term of five years commencing on 15 June 2020,” said Andrew Little. “I am also pleased to announce the ...
The Targeted Training and Apprenticeships Fund (TTAF) will pay costs of learners of all ages to undertake vocational education and training The fund will target support for areas of study and training that will give learners better employment prospects as New Zealand recovers from COVID-19 Apprentices working in all industries ...
The Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) will finally start to cut New Zealand’s greenhouse gas pollution as it was originally intended to, because of changes announced today by the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw. The changes include a limit on the total emissions allowed within the ETS, rules to ensure ...
Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the Queen’s Birthday 2020 Honours List provides an abundance of examples that Pacific people’s leadership capability is unquestionable in Aotearoa. “The work and the individuals we acknowledge this year highlights the kind of visionary examples and dedicated community leadership that we need ...
The Government is backing a new $27 million project aimed at boosting sustainable horticulture production and New Zealand’s COVID-19 recovery efforts, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Our horticulture sector has long been one of New Zealand’s export star performers, contributing around $6 billion a year to our economy. During and ...
Applications have opened for 2021 Ngā Karahipi Uru Rākau – Forestry Scholarships, which will support more Māori and women to pursue careers in forestry science, says Forestry Minister Shane Jones. “I’m delighted Te Uru Rākau is offering Ngā Karahipi Uru Rākau – Forestry Scholarships for the third year running. These ...
The Queen’s Birthday 2020 Honours List once again highlights the dedication by many to looking after our native plants and wildlife, including incredible work to restore the populations of critically endangered birds says Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. Anne Richardson of Hororata has been made an Officer of the New ...
The Government will invest $10 million from the One Billion Trees Fund for large-scale planting to provide jobs in communities and improve the environment, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Forestry Minister Shane Jones have announced. New, more flexible funding criteria for applications will help up to 10 catchment groups plant ...
Organisations that support women are invited to apply to a new $1,000,000 fund as part of the Government’s COVID-19 response. “We know women, and organisations that support women, have been affected by COVID-19. This new money will ensure funding for groups that support women and women’s rights,” said Minister for ...
Healthier waterways are front and centre in a new project involving more than 300 King Country sheep, beef and dairy farmers. The Government is investing $844,000 in King Country River Care, a group that helps farmers to lift freshwater quality and farming practice, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. “Yesterday ...
A major funding package for libraries will allow them to play a far greater role in supporting their communities and people seeking jobs as part of the economic recovery from COVID-19. “Budget 2020 contains over $60 million of funding to protect library services and to protect jobs,” says Internal Affairs ...
A jobseekers programme for the creative sector and four new funds have been set up by the Government to help our arts and music industry recover from the blow of COVID-19. Thousands of jobs will be supported through today’s $175 million package in a crucial economic boost to support the ...
Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has welcomed the First Reading of a Bill that will make legislative changes to further improve the veterans’ support system. The Veterans’ Support Amendment Bill No 2, which will amend the Veterans’ Support Act 2014, passed First Reading today. The bill addresses a number of ...
Views sought on Order in Council to help fast track the reinstatement of the Christ Church Cathedral The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Hon Poto Williams, will be seeking public written comment, following Cabinet approving the drafting of an Order in Council aimed at fast-tracking the reinstatement of the ...
The law setting out New Zealanders’ basic civil and human rights is today one step towards being strengthened following the first reading of a Bill that requires Parliament to take action if a court says a statute undermines those rights. At present, a senior court can issue a ‘declaration of ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today reiterated the deep concern of the New Zealand Government following confirmation by China’s National People’s Congress of national security legislation relating to Hong Kong. “New Zealand shares the international community’s significant and long-standing stake in Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability,” Mr Peters said. “New Zealand ...
Thousands of artists and creatives at hundreds of cultural and heritage organisations have been given much-needed support to recover from the impact of COVID-19, Prime Minister and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Jacinda Ardern announced today. “The cultural sector was amongst the worst hit by the global pandemic,” Jacinda ...
Key New Zealand assets will be better protected from being sold to overseas owners in a way contrary to the national interest, with the passage of the Overseas Investment (Urgent Measures) Bill. The Bill, which passed its third reading in Parliament today, also cuts unnecessary red tape to help attract ...
Setting higher health standards at swimming spots Requiring urban waterways to be cleaned up and new protections for urban streams Putting controls on higher-risk farm practices such as winter grazing and feed lots Setting stricter controls on nitrogen pollution and new bottom lines on other measures of waterway health Ensuring ...
The Government is on the verge of reaching its target of state sector boards and committees made up of at least 50 percent women, says Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter and Minister for Ethnic Communities Jenny Salesa. For the first time, the Government stocktake measures the number of Māori, ...
The Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister and Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media Minister, Kris Faafoi, has today announced the appointment of Tristan Gilbertson as the new Telecommunications Commissioner and member of the Commerce Commission. “Mr Gilbertson has considerable experience in the telecommunications industry and a strong reputation amongst his peers,” ...
The Ministry of Education and NZEI Te Riu Roa have agreed to settle the pay equity claim for teacher aides, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. This will see more than 22,000 teacher aides, mostly women, being valued and paid fairly for the work they do. “Teacher aides are frontline ...
Subcontractors will have greater certainty, more cashflow support and job security with new changes to retention payments under the Construction Contracts Act says Minister for Building and Construction, Jenny Salesa. A recent review of the retentions money regime showed that most of the building and construction sector is complying with ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong have marked the first anniversary of the New Zealand-Singapore Enhanced Partnership with a virtual Leaders’ Meeting today. The Enhanced Partnership, signed on 17 May 2019, provides the framework for cooperation across the four main areas of trade, defence and ...
On 17 May 2019, New Zealand and Singapore established an Enhanced Partnership to elevate our relations. The Enhanced Partnership – based on the four pillars of trade and economics, security and defence, science, technology and innovation, and people-to-people links – has seen the long-standing relationship between our countries strengthen over the ...
State-Owned Enterprises Minister Winston Peters has welcomed KiwiRail’s announcement that it is seeking a preferred shipyard to build two new rail-enabled ferries for the Cook Strait crossing. “This Government is committed to restoring rail to its rightful place in New Zealand. Bigger, better ships, with new technology are yet another ...
Better protection for seabirds is being put in place with a new National Plan of Action to reduce fishing-related captures, Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash and Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage announced today. The National Plan of Action for Seabirds 2020 outlines our commitment to reduce fishing-related captures and associated seabird ...
Almost $1 billion in interest-free loans for small businesses More than 55,000 businesses have applied; 95% approved Average loan approx. $17,300 90% of applications from firms with ten or fewer staff A wide cross-section of businesses have applied, the most common are the construction industry, accommodation providers, professional firms, and ...
Thousands of children will have healthier lungs after the Government’s ban on smoking in cars with kids becomes law, says Associate Minister of Health Jenny Salesa. This comes after the third reading of Smoke-free Environments (Prohibiting Smoking in Motor Vehicles Carrying Children) Amendment Bill earlier today. “This law makes it ...
The special Epidemic Response Committee (ERC) has successfully concluded its role, Leader of the House Chris Hipkins said today. The committee was set up on 25 March by the agreement of Parliament to scrutinise the Government and its actions while keeping people safe during levels 4 and 3 of lockdown. ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today announced four diplomatic appointments: New Zealand’s Ambassador to Belgium, High Commissioners to Nauru and Niue, and Ambassador for Counter-Terrorism. “As the world seeks to manage and then recover from COVID-19, our diplomatic and trade networks are more important than ever,” Mr Peters said. “The ...
New Zealanders will be better protected from online harm through a Bill introduced to Parliament today, says Internal Affairs Minister Tracey Martin. “The internet brings many benefits to society but can also be used as a weapon to spread harmful and illegal content and that is what this legislation targets,” ...
New Zealand’s world-first plan to eradicate the cattle disease Mycoplasma bovis is on track the latest technical data shows, says Agriculture and Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two years ago the Government, DairyNZ and Beef + Lamb New Zealand and industry partners made a bold decision to go hard and commit ...
Further support for New Zealanders affected by 1-in-100 year global economic shock 12-week payment will support people searching for new work or retraining Work programme on employment insurance to support workers and businesses The Government today announced a new temporary payment to support New Zealanders who lose their jobs due ...
The Provincial Growth Fund will play a vital role in New Zealand’s post-COVID-19 recovery by creating jobs in shorter timeframes through at least $600 million being refocused on projects with more immediate economic benefits, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced. The funding is comprised of repurposed Provincial Growth ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The government will provide eligible owner-occupiers with a grant of $25,000 to build a new home or extensively renovate an existing one. The scheme – estimated to cost up to $688 million – will not ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Purnendra Jain, Adjunct Professor, Asian Studies, University of Adelaide Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will finally hold a virtual summit this week after efforts to meet in person were scuttled by the bushfires and coronavirus. The meeting ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anna-Sophie Jürgens, Lecturer (Assistant Professor) in Popular Entertainment Studies and Science in Fiction Studies, Australian National University Bloodsucker, leech, tick – few things have a reputation worse than parasites. But these biological hangers-on also have a comic cultural history. In biology, a ...
By RNZ News The organisers of Black Lives Matter protests in several main centres will not be prosecuted. On Monday, thousands gathered at several events around the country for Black Lives Matter marches in solidarity with protesters in the United States after the police killing of George Floyd. The protests ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Fletcher, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for Governance and Policy Studies, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington One of New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s favourite exhortations is that we all “be kind” to one another. It’s part of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University A go-slow on spending sent the economy backwards 0.3% in the first three months of this year, only the fourth such decline since Australia was last in recession in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Heidi Zimmer, Research associate, Southern Cross University As bushfires blackened forests last summer, one tree species was protected by a specialist team of firefighters: the Wollemi pine. These trees have a deeply ancient lineage dating back to when dinosaurs walked Gondwana 100 ...
Children's Minister Tracey Martin says she was never officially asked to do anything about the Māori-led inquiry into Oranga Tamariki commissioned by Whanau Ora. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alison Whittaker, Research Fellow, University of Technology Sydney You probably know the details of the death of George Floyd. He was a doting father and musician. He was killed when a police officer, Derek Chauvin, knelt on his neck for nearly nine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Greste, Professor of Journalism and Communications, The University of Queensland Here is a line from the latest safety advisory for reporters issued by the US-based Committee for the Protection of Journalists (CPJ): Taking into account the increased levels of violence ...
Aaron Ironside is the new spokesperson for the Say Nope To Dope campaign. Aaron Ironside rose to prominence in the 1990’s as the anchor of Radio Hauraki’s popular Morning Pirates breakfast show. The young rock DJ fully embraced the Sex, Drugs and ...
AgResearch chairman Dr Paul Reynolds said the Government’s capital contribution of $45 million towards a new education, science and innovation precinct in Lincoln is a huge boost for New Zealand’s COVID 19 recovery plan and the contribution to ...
Dunedin writer Victor Billot on America's "President Cheezel". Go Big or Go Home Prezident Cheezel deletes lockdown, deletes the World Health Organization, deletes the memory of George Floyd, then hunkers in his hunker bunker, hunkers with freedom fries at midnight, a lights out party at the House of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Locke, Research Associate, LCT Centre for Knowledge-Building, Department of Sociology and Social Policy, University of Sydney Prime Scott Morrison last week outlined a plan to create jobs and revitalise the economy post COVID-19. Part of this so-called Jobmaker plan includes an ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicola Willand, Lecturer, School of Property, Construction and Project Management, RMIT University Stay-at-home orders and the economic crisis have increased the burden of energy costs on lower-income Australians. Poor housing quality and unequal access to home energy efficiency are hurting our most ...
Jacinda Ardern has unveiled details of the changes New Zealanders can expect when we move from level two to level one. What will it mean for businesses, hospitality and day-to-day life? Level one! At last, life is finally back to normal.Not so fast. We’re still in level two, and will be ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kantha Dayaram, Associate Professor, Curtin University The number of Australians working from home has soared during the COVID-19 crisis. Latest data from the Australian Bureau of Stastistics shows 46% of the workforce worked from home in late April and early May. By ...
Analysis by Keith Rankin. Economic Life, Economics and EconomismKeith Rankin. When things go wrong with economic life, it’s easy to blame economics; that is, the academic discipline called ‘economics’. We all live economic lives, and use metaphors to give meaning to that amorphous thing we call ‘the economy’ ...
National survey asks New Zealanders If They Support Recognition For the Contribution of Our Service Personnel and their Families The Royal New Zealand Returned and Services Association (RSA) said today that it supports the proposal for a Kawenata which is ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says there will still be strict controls on the border, but all current rules and restrictions on businesses and services will be "essentially lifted" under alert level 1. ...
ANALYSIS:By Philip Russo of Monash University The death of African-American man George Floyd at the hands of police has sparked protests across the United States and inspired many people to reflect on our own history of police violence against Indigenous people in Australia and New Zealand. After thousands marched ...
The New Zealand Police Association is supporting the three officers who are now facing manslaughter charges in relation to the death of a man in the Hawera Police Station cells in June last year. Association President Chris Cahill says the officers ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Associate Professor, Criminology and Justice Studies, RMIT University As we have been cooped up at home during coronavirus lockdown, reports of image-based abuse have skyrocketed. According to Australia’s eSafety Commissioner, it received more than 1,000 reports of image-based abuse between ...
In the third part of our series with Kiwibank answering your questions about Covid-19’s impact on New Zealanders’ finances, two readers at different ends of their saving journeys ask what to do with their KiwiSaver account. Melissa Vasta, Kiwi Wealth GM retail and product, responds.Hi Melissa, My KiwiSaver ‘growth’ fund has ...
Landlords have been given a break – well, a bit of a break – according to the latest bunch of Beehive pronouncements. Other announcements by the Beehive Bugle Brigade tell us: People wanting to train for employment– or retrain – will be given a helping hand. But funding “will ...
“The Government’s bill to regulate vaping won’t bring New Zealand any closer to its smokefree ambition, unless MPs now get in behind the many submitters and intervene to drive down the country’s smoking rates,” says Jonathan Devery, spokesperson ...
Covid-19 has not stopped a North Island Iwi from continuing to ready itself for a vote this year, that if ratified will be one of the largest Treaty settlement to date. Whakatōhea is located in the eastern Bay of Plenty region centred around ...
New Zealand ranks first in a new global food security index produced by multinational real estate company Savills. The company has compiled its Food Security Index as part of its latest global Impacts research, which looks at the factors shaping the ...
“A huge opportunity has been missed to make risk-reduced vaping products more accessible to smokers in order to reach the SmokeFree 2025 goal set by government,” says Nancy Loucas, Director of the Aotearoa Vapers Community Advocacy (AVCA). Her ...
Noel Edmonds is a British TV legend with a 50 year career in broadcasting. So why did he move to Matakana and launch a radio station? Like an over-excited Mr Blobby, Tara Ward gave him a call to find out. When Noel Edmonds answers the phone from his home north ...
New statistics released by the New Zealand Police show Māori were disproportionately subject to police proceedings - including court proceedings and receiving warnings - during March and April, Marc Daalder reports As a debate heats up over racial bias in New Zealand policing, new statistics show that Māori were more ...
The Matariki and Puanga stars are due to rise this month, signalling the Māori New Year. Rehua will set in the west at the exact time Puanga rises. So how do we see them and what are the best dates? With thanks to Matua Rereata Mākiha for We often hear about Matariki ...
Here’s The Spinoff’s weekly round-up of data tracking the effects and response of Covid-19 around the world – and how New Zealand stacks up.Our weekly summaries of data and visualisations use Our World in Data’s work on the Covid-19 pandemic, which is freely available for re-use. Not all data is ...
Pacific Media Centre The Vanuatu Council of Ministers has agreed at its meeting held in Luganville, Santo, to postpone the hosting of the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) Leaders Meeting due in August 2020, reports the Vanuatu Daily Post. The decision followed the recommendations of the National Task Force based on ...
The National Party leader says the Black Lives Matter protests were a mockery of Covid-19 alert levels, but thinks the country should move to alert level 1 now. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wayne Hope, Professor of Communication Studies, Auckland University of Technology How many media analysts predicted it? In 2018 Australia’s Nine Entertainment absorbed Fairfax Media and its New Zealand subsidiary Stuff. Just under two years later chief executive Sinead Boucher bought Stuff from ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Abby Mellick Lopes, Associate Professor, Design Studies, Faculty of Design, Architecture and Building, University of Technology Sydney Home cooks have been trying out their skills during isolation. But the way food tastes depends on more than your ability to follow a recipe. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jeremy Moss, Professor of Political Philosophy, UNSW Queensland Nationals Senator Matt Canavan on Monday night denied suggestions the government subsidises Australia’s fossil fuel industry. The comments prompted a swift response from some social media users, who cited evidence to the contrary. Canavan ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ralph Sims, Professor, School of Engineering and Advanced Technology, Massey University CC BY-NDClimate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Marshman, Honorary Principal Fellow, Melbourne Centre for the Study of Higher Education, University of Melbourne Most of Australia’s universities have adequate cash and investment reserves to deal with the immediate impact of a downturn in international student revenue in 2020. But ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sameer Hasija, Associate Professor of Technology and Operations Management, INSEAD “This virus may become just another endemic virus in our communities and this virus may never go away.”– WHO executive director Mike Ryan, May 13 Vaccine or not, we have to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Assistant Professor, School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra Later today we’ll know what the bushfires and the coronavirus did to the economy in the three months to March: whether gross domestic product grew (as is usual) or ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Dawson, Professor and Chair of Anthropology, University of Melbourne June, 1980, Laibach was formed. Soon, they became the musical wing of the Slovenian arts collective Neue Slowenische Kunst (NSK), or New Slovenian Art. Comprising visual artists, theatre companies and a unit ...
"George Floyd was not the first, nor will he be the last, to have been denied his human rights as the police officers murdered him. Their names, overseas and in New Zealand are so many, over so many years, and their stories are all so different ...
The National Party is surprised New Zealand immigration officials didn't consult their Australian counterparts before granting a visa to refugee author Behrouz Boochani. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Strotz, Professor, Northwest University, Xi’an The COVID-19 outbreak has put into stark relief the disruption parasites can cause, both in human society and ecosystems. Researchers have long sought to better understand the evolutionary importance of parasites, to help lessen their impact. ...
More than half of a $30 million emergency welfare fund has been spent in just over a month, and many of those in need are foreigners and migrant workers who can't get a home. ...
For all The Spinoff’s latest coverage of Covid-19 see here. Read Siouxsie Wiles’s work here. New Zealand is currently in alert level two – read The Spinoff’s giant explainer about what that means here. For official government advice, see here.The Spinoff’s coverage of the Covid-19 outbreak is made possible thanks to donations from Spinoff Members. ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Significant new support announced for trainees and apprenticeships, more level one detail coming, and long-delayed changes made to ETS.Significant new support has been announced for trainees and apprentices, with thousands of dollars worth of costs being removed for each student. The ...
A Government okay for foreign crews to come here to train is likely shortly, Auckland's Mayor says America's Cup teams' hopes of winning border exemptions to get their crews to Auckland to prepare for next summer's big event should be met soon - with applications under consideration by officials and ...
Can anything stave off 'highly undesirable' cuts to services and projects in Auckland caused by the economic crisis? Will Wellington step in? Tim Murphy reports. For the second time in a year, Auckland Council needs to find half a billion dollars in a hurry to meet its financial commitments. After ...
Sewage fungus, bad smells and insinuations of ignored good faith clauses swirl in a dairy processing wastewater consent application heard in Hamilton last week New Zealand’s second largest dairy processor wants to discharge wastewater into the polluted Waitoa River, including during summer when flows are low. Open Country Dairy’s application for ...
Bubbles, tails, embers, mountains: The PM's deft use of metaphors has helped guide us in the battle to eradicate Covid-19 New Zealand’s success at containing the coronavirus has benefitted from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s clear communication during her daily media briefings. One aspect of what made this effective was her ...
Medical scientist Anona Pak won't let coronavirus wipe out her chances of playing badminton at the Tokyo Olympics, and an innovative national league will keep her on her toes. Two years ago, Anona Pak was playing badminton purely for the love of the game. The thought of representing New Zealand at ...
Former Woman’s Weekly editor Jenny Lynch on the Bauer-exterminated magazine that may yet rise again. It was born in 1932 at the height of the Depression and laid to rest in 2020 the middle of a global pandemic. In the intervening years the New Zealand Woman’s Weekly became a national ...
The country’s coronavirus restrictions might be coming to an end sooner than you think. Justin Giovannetti looks at what level one rules mean for you.Crowded stadiums and restaurants filled to capacity could be reality in New Zealand as soon as next Wednesday as the government eyes an early move to ...
Waitomo is a town built on tourism. But as overseas visitors, who have been flocking to its spectacular network of glow-worm caves for over a century, dry up, the future looks uncertain.More than 130 years ago, the eruption of Mount Tarawera killed an estimated 153 people and buried Te Otukapuarangi ...
There's the law; then there's what's right. Our national carrier has been battered with complaints that it's hanging on to customer cash for flights it grounded. Jon Duffy's first week as head of Consumer New Zealand is a memorable one - the consumer watchdog was swamped with complaints from Air ...
Our Prime Minister is lauded overseas for her compassion, but her Cabinet is refusing to properly support tens of thousands of jobless migrants and beneficiaries struggling through the Covid-19 crisis, Bernard Hickey argues Over the last year since the March 15 attacks, our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has become a paragon of virtue for many ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards The latest opinion poll is out, and it’s more bad news for the National Party, with Roy Morgan putting them on only 26.5% support, against Labour’s 56.5%. You can see the details here: Roy Morgan May opinion poll. Roy Morgan is regarded as less accurate than ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Philip Russo, Associate Professor, Director Cabrini Monash University Department of Nursing Research, Monash University The death of African-American man George Floyd at the hands of police has sparked protests across the United States and inspired many people to reflect on our own ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Thalia Anthony, Professor of Law, University of Technology Sydney I can’t breathe, please! Let me up, please! I can’t breathe! I can’t breathe! These words are not the words of George Floyd or Eric Garner. They weren’t uttered on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Roberto Musotto, Cyber Security Cooperative Research Centre Postdoctoral Fellow, Edith Cowan University Alongside growing concerns over a possible resurgence of the coronavirus during winter, the pandemic is now creating even more victims as cybercriminals aim to capitalise on the economic upheaval. According ...
Open mike 22/06/2014 
Open mike is your post.
Last month I noted that the public policy debate was all about how we deal with covid-19. That’s changing now, and will change more over the next couple of months as the buffering impact of the wage subsidy disappears and we see starkly the economic hole out of which we ...5 hours ago
The mission of the New Zealand Police is to make this country the safest nation in the world. To achieve that aim, there is one important step the police need to take at the end of this month. When the evaluation of the Armed Response Teams’ trial is completed, the ...5 hours ago
Bernard Hickey is one of New Zealand’s leading financial journalists. His latest article, published by Newsroom, lays bare the cruel treatment of hundreds of thousands of workers stranded since the lockdown. Our Prime Minister is lauded overseas for her compassion, but her Cabinet is refusing to properly support tens of ...10 hours ago
For a good part of my adult life I have studied civil-military relations. I have studied authoritarian and democratic variants, and I have studied them across countries and regions. I have also worked in and with several US security agencies and have lectured on the theme at a number of ...13 hours ago
The CTU is planning to mount a campaign to double sick leave, from 5 to 10 days a year. Good. We've all just had an extremely strong reminder of the need to stay at home when sick, and of the effectiveness of doing so (the lockdown, social distancing, and responsible ...14 hours ago
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz If we stopped oil, gas and coal extraction immediately – ...17 hours ago
by The Spark “The system is broken”—the words of a young black man in Minneapolis watching flames destroy a police precinct demonstrators had torched. Broken? Yes, it is! What else could you say about a system whose police for nine minutes casually knelt on a black man’s neck, watching until ...1 day ago
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So it’s now looking like Murray Mc Cully will stand aside for Colin Craig in East Coast Bays.
…. if it looks like Nats aren’t doing so well in the polls in coming weeks. Wonder how the locals will take that?
and folks in bennetts’ old/abandoned seat are asking..
..since her departure:..
..’where have all the ladders gone..?’
There are now two types of ladders:
The gold plated ones used exclusively for the welfare of the rich and the powerful.
The rickety ramshackle ones grudgingly used for the rest.
Well this clusterfuck should fix their polling problems.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11279089
FFS can’t Labour get it’s shit sorted out? This STINKS to high heaven.
Yep – right up there with $850,000 for Pledge Cards, and then changing the law to stop any prosecution.
Can you explain why?
As far as I know, nobody in the Labour party did anything like phone the police to warn them off prosecuting Liu for domestic violence, and no Labour member has a spouse involved with Liu’s company or anything like that. Where’s the pay for play?
Unless there is some evidence of favouritism shown towards this man by Labour, what’s the actual story?
“..Where’s the pay for play?..”
short answer;..liu got citizenship etc..with ministers from both parties over-riding ministerial advice to not proceed with/grant liu citizenship..
..how is that for starters..?
..and i certainly am not arguing a minimising of what williamson got the boot for..
..the ‘actual story’ is the purchase of influence..by donors..from both parties..
..and the seemingly loose-as rule of mike williams as labour party president/bagman..
..that enough to be getting on with..?
..all this is doing is compounding the case for ending our politicians being able to be ‘bought’..
..and to have state-funding of political-campaigns..
..having after each election..this bunch of sweaty-individuals/corporates who have donated..waiting for their pay-offs..
..is a perversion/bastardisation of democracy..
Well said, Phil.
State funded +Any donation of $1,000 plus (or may be even $100 plus) to be transparent and openly declared with no anonymity provision available.
Maurice Williamson helped this character buy a house/batch next to his own and even said he does some house handyman repair work for him when this fellow goes off to china for a holiday. The immigration minister, Woodhouse said that he ‘personally went and visited this guy in his hotel/residence’ to get his suggestions for changes to the immigration laws! Can’t you see how unbecoming and dodgy for a government cabinet minister to do that! By the way, Key even went and opened his hotel. National has, as far as I have have read, declared only $22,000 from this man when National seems to be much closer to him.
Both Labour and National should come clean about ALL the donations from this fellow and there aught to be a thorough investigations by the police or IRD or parliament or election commission about ALL the activities, dealings and behaviour of this individual.
In my opinion, any donation of $1,000 or more from anyone or any group should be declared by all political parties. Better transparency is what is needed to keep NZ corruption free.
Some important questions need to be asked. Why has this Liu fellow made his statement now? What is his motive or agenda? Is his statement true or a lie? Where is his receipt? Has he been pressurised to issue this statement? By who? Why through a lawyer? Why no affidavit? Why is he not fronting up for a face to face interview by media? Why is he trying to damage the Labour party just before the coming elections? How much has he given to the National party? What favours has he received by the cabinet ministers and by this government? What dirty tricks is National playing behind the scenes? Lots of important questions need answers here.
Well, having observed the recent developments, which are of course a well planned, well paced smear campaign coming from John Key and his underlings, the sad thing is, mud sticks. And the reality is this, John Key’s top drawer is not brimming full with harmful documents and info on Labour and that party’s MPs for no reason.
The decades of adopting a “third way” form of neo-liberalism, thus with the capitalism we have now, the long time of flirting with big business, with rich donors, with wining and dining at high level functions, and with socialising with the top elite persons in society, this has not happened without Labour Members of Parliament, especially former Ministers, having compromised themselves. That is why Labour has lots credit, reputation, support in the traditional and otherwise usual voter base.
All talk of returning to the roots, over recent years, has not been believed by many, and NOT so by me either!
The rot sits deep, and there is much hidden, and sadly Key and his loyal muck-rakers got more than a handful of info at their hands, having worked in a calculated, strategic manner, they seem to have ample of it. Much of the complicit MSM serve his and the Nats’ requests, willingly, but they can do so, they have info that has some value to it.
And such rich, wealthy Chinese business migrants, like Mr Liu, they will not take kindly to being accused, suspected, blamed and put into public disrepute by certain politicians, leaders or not, who come from parties that he once may have donated big to (by way of discrete trusts or in other forms), so they come back with a vengeance.
That is what we are having now, Labour is screwed, this election is screwed, that is for Labour, the party is discredited now, make no damned doubt about it, it is HISTORY, unless a long, painful rejuvenation and reformation happens over a long time.
I told you all months ago, repeatedly, and was lambasted by a fair few, Labour are “gonners”, there is an urgent and absolute need for a new, left or progressive party, that represents what Labour once stood for. The present lot do not deserve to continue sitting in Parliament, and ignoring the needs of the weakest and poorest out here. All their slogans ring hollow. What the f*** have you offered those on benefits in this election? Not much, to be honest, so go and tidy up your mess, and leave the main opposition to the Greens and others now, thank you!
The result of Labour’s and I fear also David Cunliffe’s stuff ups, and hypocrisy, that is that John Key can now make political changes daily, serving the US interests, even defending drone strikes that inevitably will kill innocent, and many other disgusting things that will come.
So we can thank Labour for all this crap that we will soon get under a third term of an equally shallow, hollow, hypocritical, lying and self serving National Party led government. I feel sorry for those on benefits, the full swing of more hate driven “reforms” will be on their way. Shame on you, Labour, shame on you!
Labour’s OK. It’s foreign-owned, Nat-loving corporate media who have the problem.
Too few media owners…and none of them Kiwis.
So will East Coast Bays end up another Sheeple place just like Epsom.
“Wonder how the locals will take that?”
With regret I would think. Sadly it is a consequence of the electoral system.
liu has signed a detailing-statement saying he gave $150,000 to the labour party..
..and maybe now the question needs to be asked..
..to who..?
..or will it be group-denial on the menu again today..?
..and where is the man who can answer all of these pressing-questions..?
..questions that wont just go away..
..where’s waldo/mike williams..?
..labours’ bag-man at that time..
phil, today we have something substantial to ask questions about.
Like Edwards you seem keen to get the boot into Labour as often as possible, whether there’s any evidence or not.
These are issues about Labour in the past in government. Nothing to do with Cunliffe, everything to do with the MO of soft neoliberal Labour.
It’s really good to look at such things in the light of substantial evidence, and for Labour to clear out any remnants of neoliberal collusion.
Rick Barker is history. Some of the likes of Mallard, King etc, seen taking Sky City hospitality at sports events…. time this kind of thing was relegated to history.
And generally, we need more transparency around funding for poltiical parties, and measures to lower limits on the amounts of funding that come frome private donations.
“..Like Edwards you seem keen to get the boot into Labour as often as possible, whether there’s any evidence or not..”
seeing as you have made this claim against me..
..where is yr evidence/examples..?
Edwards in the article – Edwards, though, has a history of it. I don’t have time to look it up, because I’m about to get ready for work.
You, yesterday and today, so keen to turn questions on Labour without any significant evidence, rather than look closely at what the NZ Herald articles are doing within the context of an up-coming election.
“..You, yesterday and today, so keen to turn questions on Labour without any significant evidence, rather than look closely at what the NZ Herald articles are doing within the context of an up-coming election…”
sigh..!..so..(i repeat)..that was why i was one of the first to call bullshit! on that liu-letter..?
..and to opine that cunnliffe should also call bullshit! on it…and front-foot it..?
..eh..?
..how does that all fit in with yr phils’-secret-plan/agenda narrative..?
..i’m calling bullshit! on you..
..and the longer you/labour twist and turn on this one..the longer it will drag on..
..can you seriously not see that basic/screamingly-obvious political-fact/imperative at play here..?
..and again..when will the man with all the answers from labours; p.o.v…
..former bag-man mike williams..when will he surface..?
..(we all know he isn’t media-shy..eh..?..so..?..)
..if there were no donations..why has he not popped up in the media to call liu out..?
..have you asked yrslf that question..?
..(instead of whipping up messanger-conspiracy-theories..eh…?)
…where’s waldo/mike williams..?
..the man with all the answers..
..to all of our questions..
I agree, the HMS Labour is severely listing and if this isn’t sorted and put to bed within the next week or two then Labour is heading to the bottom taking the lefts hope of electoral victory with it.
This is not the time to play the ostrich.
phillip you had no evidence at the time you were saying. And the money still does not add up.
f.f.s..!..i was just repeating the news the herald had..
..w.t.f. is wrong with you..?
..demanding i/everyone(?) must have ‘all the evidence’ before saying anything..?
..you are being beyond fucken stupid..
Yes, you are. Swallowing the Herald’s hackery. Read Geddis at Pundit then pull your head in. If you consider yourself more ethical than a Tory you’ll withdraw your remarks too.
didn’t geddis confirm an amount of that size..?
..how the fuck is that disproving lius’-donation-claim..?
..have you all lost yr powers of basic-thinking over this..?
i-mac seems to equate reporting what the herald says..as then being the one who ‘has to prove’ the claims..?..(!)
..fucken barking..all of you…
..and what ‘remarks’ do i need to ‘withdraw’..?
..maybe a sample or two..?
It demonstrates that Mike Williams (just like everyone else) would be a fucking idiot to dance to the National Party’s tune, or do you think they’ll stop playing if you start dancing?
Go on, dance around until you’re exhausted: they’ve got more tunes lined up just as soon as you realise you’ve been had.
the paranoia runs deep in that one..
..heh..!
Yes, that’s right Phil, National will start fighting the election on policy starting tomorrow. On Planet Phil.
How quickly they turn on you phil. Hope that wakes you up.
It’s an amazing day when Philu is the most sane contributor on this topic.
Phillip, ”after the fact” is what you should be considering, remember we are talking here of events in 2007,
i said yesterday that i would ”unhappily” concede that Liu had donated a large sum, or large sums of money to the Labour Party when a shred of evidence was produced to that effect,
Lets examine this evidence shall we, ”a firm of lawyers, said to act for Liu gave an anonymous donation to Labour in 2007”,
Now in 2007 can you point to the Herald printing a story which says just that???,
That is the gist of this little sordid tale, not what is now known today in the year 2014, but, what was known in the year 2007 when the firm of lawyers made this donation on behalf of ”anonymous”…
phillip. You were stating it as fact and it is not fact even yet. The column in the Herald says $150,000 but does not back that up other than “Mr Liu said.” There is nothing in the returns to back it up. You might have just said “it was rumoured that Mr Liu…. ”
Anyway the damage has been done because people will say either ho hum, or those tricky Labour people, or best maybe the whole system of clarity of donation be refined. Who knows?
The Herald article is a fucking travesty.
Oh, we talked to Liu, he signed a document that we’re not going to show you (never mind that he wouldn’t sign an avadavit) and he says x, y, z. We’re not going to give you any detail of that (like where and when the auction was), you’ll just have to take our word for it. Even better, we’ve got our tame ‘political commentator’ who says LABOUR ARE CORRUPT, and we’re going to print lots of his words without telling you where they came from, or why he should be trusted. Oh, and we’ll throw in some editorialising from our chief reporter, like how embarassing this is for Labour, because why have independent neutral reporting when you can do what the fuck you like and influence the election of a nation state?
+111
Also, phil, we are in election mode. The NZ Herald is leading a strong smear campaign aimed to destabilise Labour and the Left, in order to undermine the chances of a left government forming. We shouldn’t let the Herald lead us around by the nose. We need to ask wider questions, not just related to the ones they have raised about Labour.
The author, Bevan Hurley, says the NZ Herald has a signed statement by Liu from May 3. This must be the afidavit that lawyers were reported to be poring over a couple of days ago. Clearly it didn’t pass the legal tests, and was reported to lack documentation.
So, we still need to see some documented evidence off the claims. How trustworthy are Liu’s signed statements?
I agree that this is a concerted attack against Labour by NZH, but I also think Mike Williams should be fronting this, this is a governance issue and its important that Labour’s record keeping is maintained at the highest standard. Unfortunately I suspect that William’s and co have just replicated the National Party’s practices, and unfortunately this is the outcome…The NZ Herald attacks Labour. As a matter of Principle Labour should always, always operate at 100% transparency.
This could turn out to be a load of bull shit, but obviously Labour’s record keeping isn’t at a level that we can say with 100% certainty that it is. The executive need to get things in order after September, I suspect that as National anticipated, this is the issue that will cost the Left the government in the next election. Its on Mike Williams head.
Cunliffe has responded well – distanced himself from past practices by Labour, and committed towards tighter systems and more transparencies.
And still National has to be held to account for its funding practices. It is way more supported by big money than Labour.
seriously karol..?
..you aren’t playing the ‘at-least-we’re-not-as-bad-as-them!’-card..?
..are you..?
..and i call things as i see them..
..be they on the right/left..or anywhere inbetween..
..i try really hard to be as ideological-blinkers free as i can..
..ideas i like..i go woo-hoo..!..
..ones i don’t..i go boo-hoo..!..
The problem Cunliffe has is that distancing himself will be very difficult. There are a number of current mps from the previous govt still there and the letter which while completely above board is enough to tie him to liu in the public’s eyes.
As for transparency im not sure he has a lot of credibility there either he did after all set up his own trust system.
Its starting to look like Labour are no better than National when it comes to suspect funding practices. Disappointing.
Yes! Because accepting donations is exactly the same as cash-for-access Cabinet Clubs and eighteen holes of golf with the PM.
Sorry to interrupt while you’re having such fun doing the National Party two-step; it looks like Labour declared the donation too.
Why not show the commitment to fixing this via proposing a particularly strong sort of campaign finance reform and heavy consequences for breaching the rules? Something too strong for National to support and including something new.
Then every time they say “you did this dodgy thing” You can say – “the policy to fix it is on the table – and you oppose it”
Labour have already done that, unfortunately it appears they thought it applied to everyone but them.
Then there are three possibilities
1) the policies suggested were weak policies designed to look strong but designed to catch no one.
2) National blocked the policies and they should get a bloody nose for being the real problem.
3) Labour/National and other parties should be prosecuted under these rules.
[citation needed]
Karol
The Lui “scandal” is very much National demonstrating the principle that; the best defense is a strong offense. We Greens may be trying to run a campaign on a pittance, but now that Labour are all but neutralised on calling-out dodgy funding, hopefully our MPs will be on the Tories case about their donors from now on.
I am so looking forward to a Turei vs Woodhouse debate down here in Dunedin North.
well karol..that notorious double-agent for the right..the unionist robert reid..
.on q& a..said it is down to the party organisation to investigate this..
..he didn’t seem to question lius’ claims..
..any revision of yr stated opinions yet..?
Nope – see further comments, posts (by others) and developments today.
It’s the Nats’ smear machine and Liu that should be fronting up with some evidence of their allegations.
We shouldn’t be letting NZ Herald lead us around by the nose.
“The NZ Herald is leading a strong smear campaign aimed to destabilise Labour and the Left, in order to undermine the chances of a left government forming.”
With strong support from Fairfax and TV3. Both have been on constant attack all week. The blatant propaganda has been gobsmacking. I’ve made a complaint to Fairfax but am yet to do so with 3. Will do as soon as I get a chance.
Respect to David Cunliffe for being centred, calm, strong and articulate throughout
+100 Rosie …”Respect to David Cunliffe for being centred, calm, strong and articulate throughout”….He will make a great Prime Minister!
The Oddest thing is that Stuff has nothing about this yet. But give them time.
Nope, this is a Herald exclusive.
They’re probably busy running it by their lawyers first @David.
I wonder who’s going to front on Kathryn Ryans “From the Right ….. & From the Right” tomorrow. Will it be Mr Williams? or will Ms Pagani be drafted in?
God Pagani, as useless as a Udders on a Bull.
Or as a dick on a cow.
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and count to 10.
And then read this blog by Andrew Geddis on Pundit.
http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/maybe-it-was-a-bottle-of-armand-de-brignac-nebuchadnezzar-champagne
Geddis has checked Labour’s donation records for 2007 and reports that there are several donations of significant amounts paid through lawyers from undisclosed clients – including one of $150,000.
BUT Geddis also points out that such donations were totally legal under the electoral donations law in place in 2007. AND that any wrongdoing under the law in place in 2007 is well past the 6 month deadline for prosecution under that law.
Further, Graeme Edgeler has tweeted this morning that neither the Privileges Committee nor the House can investigate something that happened under a previous government – https://twitter.com/GraemeEdgeler/status/480440174438932480
If Geddis and Edgeler are correct, then neither the Police nor the current Parliament can investigate.
I would also point out that Liu has claimed that he gave equal amounts to Labour and National or something similar. Therefore IMO, if there are ongoing pushes to investigate the donations to Labour, then there should also be the same investigations into Liu’s donations to National.
IMO, if these donations to National were later than those to Labour and were under the much tighter electoral donations law which have come in over more recent years, and if the donations did not meet the more recent requirements, National could find themselves in deeper water than Labour …..
Lots of “ifs” there.
I don’t quite get all of this. There was an auction/raffle used to raise funds. (And sure, that’s potentially dodgy or ‘less than up front’ on a number of levels) But unless the details of all winning bids are routinely recorded for parliamentary rules’ sake, the fundraising is fundraising and not donations per se.
Or am I missing something?
Good point/question , Bill. I am not not familiar enough with party fundraising etc or election donations law (and the changes over the years) to comment, but would really like the views of the likes of Geddis or Edgeler on this. Perhaps Mickey Savage could throw some light on this.
NZ Femme said yesterday that money raised in such auctions gets collated, and that total amount is declared not the individual amounts. Presumaby then Labour wouldn’t have a record of the individuals. If this is true, then Labour needs to explain that (given the MSM don’t seem capable of doing their job properly).
Nice info veuto. At last someone dealing with facts.
From what you say it is now simple: under the law as then in place there would be no record of Liu’s Labour party donation in Liu’s name. Presumably there is similarly no record of Liu’s National party donations for the same reason.
The only story here is that Williamson, in intervening for Liu, ignored the separation of powers, a fundamental tenet of democracy, and so was justifiably sacked.
Why can’t Labour simply say the above and nothing else?
Agreed. May I add Woodhouse meeting Liu in a hotel room to discuss immigration issues is still a much bigger story than the MSM have led the public to believe.
Q: When did a Minister last visit your home to hear your policy views?
+111
the one coming out of this looking the worst is mike williams..
..boag said today that williams said last fri that he had no knowledge of liu..or the (alleged)large donation..
..yet the evidence from geddis shows there was..
..what sort of party president has such a large donation come in..
..and doesn’t instantly insist on knowing who it is..and to become buddies..in the hope of getting more..?
..isn’t that party-president 101 stuff..?
Mike Williams has said that money raised in auctions is collated and the gross sum is recorded rather than individual items. And he said that in handling the raising of millions of dollars over the years from hundreds of different donors no one would stand out.
The evidence does not show that Liu donated a large sum of money. Liu’s name does not occur on any of the official Parliamentary records.
Check the record. All the parties had donations from Trusts and lawyers and the names of the donors remain anonymous. As with National at the time.
http://www.elections.org.nz/parties-candidates/registered-political-parties-0/party-donations/party-donations-year/1996-2007
“..And he said that in handling the raising of millions of dollars over the years from hundreds of different donors no one would stand out..”
that’s right..’cos labour has $150,000 doors coming out their ears..eh..?
“..and the names of the donors remain anonymous..”
..on the official records..maybe..
..but of course those donors want the pollies to know they have given..
..they are buying influence/access..
..and that is worth nothing..if those who need to know..don’t know..
..but anyway..you should ask mike williams how all of that nudge-nudge/wink-wink stuff worked..
..he was who all of that went/was done thru..
..’tis the role of the bagman…
Actually a bagman collects dirty money. As with your other claims lately there’s no proof that money donated to Labour has been obtained through forgery, bribery or thievery.
In fact there’s no proof that Mike Williams has ever accepted a donation of money that’s been illegally transferred or utilized for unscrupulous endeavours.
You really do need to get a grip on reality there phillip ure and stop defaming somebody without a shred of evidence for doing so. Otherwise you’ll simply end up looking like a fool!
williams has described himself as labours’ bagman during that time..
..it does not infer illegality..
..it is just the person who does all the fundraising/carries the money around..in bags..
..hence..bagman..mm-kay..?
“..a person who solicits money or subscriptions for a political party..”
..you really are just lowest-orifice-plucking..aren’t you…?
..you silly canine..
Care to provide a link showing that Mike William’s describes himself as a bagman phillip ure? I can only find a references to Owen Glen saying:
But that’s pretty much it. Do you think Owen Glen was referring to Williams as carrying bags of money? I don’t think so. Don’t try to weasel out of your defamatory statements by claiming words have different meanings. That’s about as pathetic as it gets.
no..i think glenn was referring to williams being..’a person who solicits money or subscriptions for a political party’..
..you feckin’ idjit..!
..take yr bullshit..
..and stick it where the sun don’t shine..
..eh..?
“.. by claiming words have different meanings..”
..that’s funny..!
..’cos’.newsflash for ya..
..they do..eh..?
..lot’s of them.. ‘have different meanings’..eh..?
..hadn’t ya heard..?
..are you drunk..?
..yr thinking is slurred..
It’s funny how you respond when challenged phillip ure with baseless ad hominems…spitting and cursing that I must be drunk or stoned because I dared to question your “wisdom” lol. Is that because your low self-esteem cannot accept the fact that you’re wrong?
Do you actually have a link for William’s referring to himself as a bagman phillip ure, or was that just another brain fart?
I think you might be getting bagman confused with moneybags. Bagman has a very specific meaning that you shouldn’t misconstrue. It means somebody who accepts dirty money. There is no other meaning to that word. Unless you’re trying to say that Mike Williams accepts dirty money it might be best to use a different word.
Phil, your memory is faulty; it was Owen Glenn who referred to Williams as a bagman (and a liar) during the Winston Peters donation row. Mind you, Mike Williams does have an excellent sense of humour, so perhaps you might be able to find some instance of him joking along those lines, but I’d be very surprised.
Bagman is a derogatory term with a long history, and these days it actually is often used in a political context. Pretty sure it comes from the racing industry, where illegal bookies never carried cash themselves, but had a stooge nearby. I’ve heard it used in Aussie politics many times, but it’s not something someone would normally refer to themselves as, as its clearly an insult.
Indeed, its implausible.
However, Geddis does say:
“Labour has an “optics problem”. It has to explain how as a party it managed to completely forget that this guy was splashing around tens-of-thousands of dollars at its fundraisers a mere 7 years ago.”
I have no trust left in the Labour Party as a competent organisation. It seems like it just wanders blindly from one trainwreck to another in the last year. I don’t know if that’s Cunliffe’s fault, but it hasn’t really improved much since he’s taken over.
Seven years is a long time now. I frequently deal with govt departments and large private companies who have no institutional memory lasting that long. As far as I can tell this is due to high turnover of staff and the demise of public service careers or people not longer working for one business for a long time. Probably also something to do with restructuring and the attempt to undermine existing structures within organisations. I have no idea what’s happened with Labour, but if it’s true that donations at auctions are recorded in total not individually, then I can easily believe that there is no-one around who can explain these donations. And if the rules of the day allowed such recording of auction donations, then I don’t see what the issue is now.
Myself, I have no trust left in the MSM. Bryce Edwards should be ashamed of himself. I know this isn’t new, but this election is being manipulated by the MSM as much as NACT and Crosby Textor and there’s something different about it. Maybe just the blatancy. If something doesn’t change bloody soon this is the end of our democracy.
Its already gone. No one from the 20 yrs upwards is really interested unless its an App on their phone and the older genereation just want to be left alone and able to survive. Two large demographics that are on the margins and hence have no democratic voice. Maori are getting more and more tribal and the immigrants wish they had choosen Australia. Here is another section of society that will either vote for their elder or not at all. So roughly 60% of the population are not engaged because no one is really inteersted in them and their ideas and thoughts. National is a party of the minority wealthy and they will be voting, mark my words. So status quo remains, everyybody has an aha experience and things will just slowly deteriete further. No guts no glory. Many comments I read here are more concerned with party internal issues then the wider picture that affects the generation that should be the one leading in the future. It all looks more and more like Mad Max to me.
Ha ha ha. Today Colin Craig is going to CHOOSE the electorate he wants to stand in. How sick is this. Key is going to have his work cut out for him with this little charade. He’s going to end up a laughing stock.
craig is keys’ last desperate card to play..
..if the polls continue to show maori party/dunne gone..act on direct life-support..
..’muzza’ mccully will have a sudden change of heart..
..and will shuffle off to a well-paid sinecure of his choosing..
..and it’ll be:..’colin craig..!..come on down..!’..
..and that is when the moon-landing/chem-trails/earth only 10,000 yrs old questions will start to flow..
..and there cd well be many chuckles to be had from that..
..it will be interesting-times..
Be careful.
This might be the last year evolution will be in the curriculum, Associate Education Minister Craig will wipe it out at the election.
i still think the best us of his skills..
..wd be giving him his own royal commission..(call it the craig-commission..?..)
..so he can once and for all find out the truth about those alleged moon-landings..
..and:..chem-trails..!..what is that all about..?..
..and he can seek out the evidence/proof that the earth is indeed..only 10,000 yrs old..
.giving him anything else wd be a bit of a worry..
..is there a minister of street-signs..?
..that cd be a safe perch for him..
Millsy
OMG I never thought of that.
The (unconvicted) crim. Banks as associate Minister of Education with his attempts to privatise our tax payer funded schools was bad enough.but Craig!?
Who took Mr Liu’s $150,000? How many laws were broken? Will the defense be
a It wasn’t Cunliffe
b It was years ago
c Just a National smear
d Just a NZH smear
e Yeah , but what about X,Y and Z that National did
f All of the above!
‘Who took Mr Liu’s $150,000? How many laws were broken? Will the defense be’
The National Party
Probably none
Labour did it too.
Nope, the “defence” is that you can’t even get Liu’s statement correct. He claims to have given $100,000 at an auction fundraiser – most likely this was bundled with the rest of the auction bids and counted as one donation – and spent $50,000 wining and dining an MP who isn’t in Parliament any more.
There was no $150k to “take”.
And as Andrew Geddis has covered (veutoviper linked to his post above) on the face of it, no laws were broken at all.
Is Liu’s statement in the public domain yet?
Yeah right the NATS will have that scrap of paper hidden under lock n TricKey.
$50,000 wining and dining Barker. Hell of a big bill for wining and dining???
This Liu donation saga is a horrendous look for Labour. Shit needs to be sorted quickly, otherwise Labour is flushed.
If the prominence given to the ‘story’ by the Herald and Fairfax is anything to go by the public has already moved on.
Political parties accept donations, Maurice Williamson interfered in a police investigation and Judith Collins tried to cover up a massive conflict of interest. As for the $150k, let’s see Liu’s accounts for the relevant time period. They’ll be listed as charitable donations for tax purposes I expect.
If not, I suppose it’s in the same category as the undeclared $1m I gave to National.
A donation to a political party is not, as I understand it, a charitable donation and could not therefore be claimed as a tax deduction.
Good try though.
I wonder if Mr Liu still has the fabled bottle of wine?
Then why did John Key lie about a charity golf game?
Perhaps it was listed in his accounts as petty cash withdrawals. Either way it’s up to him to provide evidence. If and when he does, and it turns out the declared $150k donation is his, I expect you’ll demonstrate personal responsibility, withdraw, and apologise.
😆 and then I woke up.
What is relevant than going back to historical donations etc given/received during the past rules, would be to investigate and open all the donations given to political parties and their accounting AFTER the new electoral finance law was passed.
Certainly this donation issue needs to be revisited and all loopholes plugged.
Personally I would like all donations or fund raising of say $1,000 or more from any individual or entity to be declared, transparent and non-anonymous.
I would like clean non corrupt politics and way of life in New Zealand. If someone wants to donate to a party, they should have the integrity and courage to do it openly.
Cue law firms accepting one thousand paper transactions for one thousand dollars each then declaring the $800,000 donation as coming from one source: the law firm, and collecting a tidy fee for administering a trust fund.
When suggesting solutions, please try and avoid proposing existing loop-holes as panacea.
Most political parties have fundraising auctions. People donate things and other people bid on them. When Labour was in government the Chinese arrived at the fundraising events of prominant MPs, particularly Helen and Cabinet Ministers. They seemed to be competing with each other to show off their wealth and gain prestige from outbidding each other. Fortunately, as soon as the Government changed, they buggered off to suck up to the Nats. They will now be paying silly money to play golf with John Key.
The difference is that National declare everything, including golf with Key (that is how we know about it). That is the law.
and keys’ donation to charity..?
..that ‘charity’ turning out to be the national party..?
..’national declare everything’..?..yeah right..!..
..heard of the waitemata trust..?
The other difference is that National openly sells face time with ministers, who are in no doubt that they are meeting with wealthy campaign donors.
Regulatory changes and Ministerial involvement in private affairs are offered for sale, cf: Sky City, Maurice, Judith.
“National declare everything, including golf with Key”
Are you accusing Key of lying? He said the golf game was “for charity”.
Get your tory straight, Grumpy, or leave it to the pros (they’re working Sundays now)
Mike Williams or other high-ups would have had to have know a $100,000 donor right?
A donor who doesn’t speak English? Not as well as you might think.
Wouldn’t they want to know who it is so they can get more money later on? How many organisations anywhere wouldn’t bother to note an individual that gave them that much money?
Labour has plenty of supporters in the Chinese community who could overcome language barriers.
(I’m sceptical of the details as they stand)
The relationship between party staff and a donor is a curious one. If the donation comes with expectations, for example, the best thing staff can do is show the donor the door. They certainly don’t want them anywhere near an MP.
We know what National sells its owner/donors: face time with the PM and ministers, legal and regulatory changes, openly offered for sale. It’s brazen, and apparently the Police and SIS aren’t interested even when the Auditor General expresses concern.
Time to put a stop to it, whether or not ‘he did it too’.
Every donor in an election year giving over $1000 to a political party has to be published. Simple. Time to get anonymous money out of the system.
Sure. The Waitemata Trust donated everything. Fail. Go to the back of the class.
No Ant. The Nearly $100,000 was for a bottle of wine at a fund raiser. As with the current National fundraiser at Antoinette’s (sp?) the money raised is collated and presented as a lump sum. And back in the 2000s the rules were even slacker.
Therefore could it be argued that each person who donated money for the dinner must be named?
I don’t care so much about electoral donation laws and how they are gamed, even informally recorded, competent party administrators should notice someone dropping heaps of money so they can approach them for future donations, it’s unbelievable that an organisation wouldn’t note someone down who is currently donating large sums and who could potentially provide more large sums in the future.
All the public will see is that they have been bored shitless with Labour and their mates in the MSM raving on about Collins, Williamson et al, and now they are shown to be much, much worse. The one thing the public hate about politicians is hypocrisy.
don’t talk rubbish..grumps..
..even yr flag-bearer o’sullivan has made it clear that collins should be long-gone for what she did..
..this is historical..from clarks’ time..
..and to date..nothing to do with cunnliffe..
So even if Liu won’t sign an affidavit (thus protecting himself) he has stated an event and a date, 2007.
There must be records of this transaction somewhere. $100,000 is a chunk of change in any party’s bucket. Which means IRD will probably have a record of it from Liu’s accounts, which means Liu will have a record of it. – Who does not make note of a $100,000 political donation?
Important reality moment though, if it was a cash payment, there will be a bank record of the cash withdrawl transaction. The transaction has a date, the bank search will not be difficult…. or does Liu just have hundreds of thousands of dollars in ready cash just lying around.
If Liu’s records can show the transaction then Labour’s records should as well but if it turns out a $100,000 donation ‘got lost’ by Labour then every person involved must be promptly put on the bus. A bus that seems to be picking up passengers from both sides of town the longer it stays on the road.
Freedom, there are records-read veutoviper above.
When I wrote the above comment I was unaware of the Andrew Geddis post linked to by veutoviper http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-22062014/#comment-836068
In light of this information it now appears that Labour has information to go forward on and seeing as nothing was done against the rules, National’s donations must be given the same forensic eye.
Imho, what has transpired on the Big Liu Bus highlights how our entire political funding protocols need to be made more publicly transparent. Sounding a bit like a stuck record I know but I beleive the EDRNZ is an idea worth investigating and every single person I have had personal discussion with on the concept has agreed . . once they get past the unadulturated simplicity of the concept.
freedom. My comment above might help @7.2.
“As with the current National fundraiser at Antoinette’s (sp?) the money raised is collated and presented as a lump sum. And back in the 2000s the rules were even slacker.
Therefore could it be argued that each person who donated money for the dinner must be named?”
— in that circumstance ianmac the EDRNZ receives the sum total and the event keeps a legally required log of the individual donor details for any sum over [$1000] or whatever figure is deemed the threshold for anonymous donations.
I beleive $1000 is a fair limit as the only time anonymous donations should be accepted is through bucket collections/raffles and similar low volume collections. Charging 5k a plate and having twenty people at a very private dinner suddenly be anonymous is a slap in the face for anyone being told by the abusers of the system that transparency matters. If a donor is not happy being identified supporting a party, I woud ask that party why their money should be acceptable.
Interesting freedom though are you saying that that is the system or that it should be the system? What is the EDRNZ?
Meanwhile back in 2007…
PS gone back and reread your post @9.2
“i do not have permission to edit this comment” error
I have one thing to add, the longer this teacup is allowed to overflow the more I am convinced major reform is essential. The one reform I think is imperative is that commercial entities of any sort should be banned from donating to political parties.
if Antoine’s wants to donate, then their owner can donate.
If a board reckons their company should donate then see what the workers think and see who actually wants to chip in. Otherwise the owner can use their own cash.
Having a corporate structure does not mean it is a commercial enterprise. Charities, unions and similar community groups are not commercial entities and should be allowed to donate. Lobby groups will certainly find ways to work around this but if they have a corporate structure that passes the commercial entity rule then the identity of the corporate structure is still on record.
or they all just donate lots and lots and lots of $999 donations, which come corporate reporting time, would be interesting entries to explain 🙂
Agreed freedom.
“..Major Federal Health Official Admits to Congress That Prohibition Has Harmed Research Into Marijuana’s Benefits..”
“..There would be far more literature about cannabis’ therapeutic efficacy –
(cont..)
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/nida-directors-tells-congress-its-easier-study-heroin-or-cocaine-marijuana
I missed this yesterday (not Key’s remarks, but as I/S’s succinct response – as they rarely post on the weekends):
http://www.norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/how-can-pm-not-know-about-this.html
But are we talking about this on Open Mike? No, the topic of discussion is still predominantly the carefully orchestrated Lui story. The US secretary of state states:
And we just keep chewing over the gristle of Lui’s alleged donations.
The US governments commits us to a war in a Iraq supposedly without even asking our PM who was in Washington at the time (and attending briefings at the Pentagon)! As a Green Party member, this seems much more important to the country than blowing more oxygen onto the embers of a nonscandal.
“But are we talking about this on Open Mike? No …”
Well I did attempt to encourage discussion on this yesterday at comment 2 on Open Mike, but there were few takers.
Perhaps today?
VV
Thanks for that, it was late by the time I had a look at the site yesterday and got caught up at comment 12 (trying to educate fisiani about why rushing legislation to allow logging protected forests was not in the nation’s interest – a futile task; but perhaps educational to onlookers), and didn’t make it back to comment 2.
CV had a good point that; “Probaby we were still feeding the network full info but they were cutting back our access privileges”. Karol, Rosie & DTB were certainly onto the; “There were some vague things” line of Key’s.
Yeah the Liu story has all the appearances of a distraction away from the manoeuvring of TPTB.
Folk are discussing it in the wider world though.
The released notes are being distributed.
In NZ and in America and in Europe there are now hundreds of co-operative kiwis who want some answers. Some of these kiwis are, shall we say, a bit upset and these are not people who generally comment on blogs, but their anonymous activities are often discussed there.
freedom
I hope those anonymous types do keep on ensuring further releases of notes. Trusting that our elected representatives will exercise there duties with respect to the will of the nation seems more of a mugs game than ever these days.
This over at TDB is pretty good by Bomber’s standards (there’s been some thought gone into finding links and quotes, rather than his just posting a nice turn of phrase without further reflection). The Youtube video won’t play for me though, so I don’t know if this is entirely accurate; “Key’s concern was that if we didn’t rush into this immoral [2003 Iraq] war with America we may miss out on a free trade deal”.
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/06/22/john-key-commits-nz-to-a-new-us-war-in-iraq/#sthash.nmEMMCKb.dpuf
here is a re upload of the Key video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOUJnk9ztro
(sometimes youtube does wierd stuff and vids just won’t play,
so an easy fix is to play the url in our buddy VLC -playlist- advanced open -add url –
download from http://www.videolan.org/vlc/index.html )
What is most disturbing about Key’s expolitative vitriol is the timbre he delivers it in.
It is not that of a senior statesman discussing the true costs of the horrors of war.
It is kin to a pissed munter stumbling along with his mates egging each other into a strip club.
“it doesn’t mater that they are offerring up bodies and all the rest of it”
is one particular line that exposes the vacuous cavity that is that man’s soul.
“In the end it’s over to you” was a nice appropriation of a Key line at the end of the clip (I guess 2003 was before Parliament video online, so quite a good edit).
With us set to be aiding the drone-bombing of Iraq, this is timely information:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/06/20/when-drones-fall-from-the-sky/
I particularly like that; “We’ve never reported a loss of life”, because of course the first thing the survivors of a family who’d been killed by falling death-machine debris would do is to complain to the manufacturer and occupying army.
Haven’t tried that. My usual response to a youtube video not playing is to download it via a video capture tool in Firefox (This can’t be done in Chrome as Chrome prevents video capture tools from doing that).
It is how I normally stream Parliament TV, as PTV is windows/mac only and I use ubuntu.
‘video downloadhelper’ is the best I have seen for keeping up with youtube.
Might be the odd time where downloading is not possible as downloadhelper catches up with youtube changes but never more than a day or so.
Use Opera Runs on the Chrome engine but is way nicer to use.
Actually it is webkit. Nice rendering engine. I used it directly in Qt. Chrome uses it, safari uses a variant.
Today’ Q&A – Michelle Boag, leaves one breathless. There are a few numbers of possibilities if she denies the reason of the Iraq invasion under Bush: Nativity, Propaganda, Alzheimer’s, Loyalty blind and uncritical. Have I missed something?
Right after that an interview with Rosa Delauro, Democratic Representative USA Connecticut. How refreshing, an educated women not afraid to call a spade a spade with eloquence and tact.
She points out that the Bush administration has lied to the people of the US taking them into war with Iraq. In regards to Trade, under the Nafta agreement they have lost 800000 jobs. She points out that agriculture agreement will impact on wages in NZ with Vietnam being part of that paying 28c per hour. That means job losses.One does not have to agree with everything she said but one needs some good research and facts to counter act.
Of cause the Republicans want to push ahead as quickly as possible. John Boozman makes diplomatic good noises saying that the US people like NZ but cant figure out how to get here as it is so far away(???). He wants fair trade not free trade, sounds good but fair has had a bit of a partisan connotation if you look at past records and one wonders fair for whom?
Dairying – increased competitions will be a factor (impacting on NZ) but he hopes that will be sorted out. My thoughts: Maybe Nzlanders will get also 28c per hour?
War in Iraq: Of cause this impacts on Oil prices….
Back to Michelle Boag, little NZ – representing the ineptitude of the politician here and the difference could not be more obvious.
The tragedy is that it is these voices who will “represent” the ordinary people who have even less of a clue. Good defend NZ.
Robert Reid on Qand A was an absolute buffoon yet again. What on earth is this class warfare he keeps banging on about? His 1970’s Communist learnings are so last century. No wonder Michelle Boag was exasperated. He is not of this planet.
Robert Reid was spot on, I enjoy and appreciate the way he cuts through the crap. He makes the program worth watching. He raises the standard of debate when he is on the commenting panel. Really great to see someone of his calibre being aired on TV. Well done to Q&A for having him on the show.
reid was good today/again..eh..?
The only class warfare is that waged by Boag and co. They want to ban unions and Americanize our health care system and bring back slavery.
Do you want me to give you all my wages fisi:? Do you think they are too high. Do you think I should lose my sick leave.
It will be a cold day in hell before I give my wages and conditions up so rich pricks like you can have more.
I think Robert Reid was a bit flustered as he was trying to respond to Michelle Boag – she is an old lady whose world is only save if she believes her own propaganda. Let he go into retirement she is what you might call – past it.
Old Botox Boag showed just how mad she is by trying to justify Americas’ so called ‘war on terrorism.’ Invading Iraq then pulling out and leaving the place in disarray is so typical of how the Yanks operate. Prior to the invasion Iraq had a lot better systems like health & education than America & probably New Zealand. Where was the democracy in Husain’s hanging? Yip about the same as Bin Laden’s illegal assassination.
Cunliffe was quite right in pointing out that the focus should be on political policy, something that National are piss weak in. Susan Wood is a has been jurno quite a terrible interviewer compared to The Nations front lady. I’ve always considered her to be a bit of an air head.
Great to see Bob Reid back on Q&A countering Boags horse shit dribble.
i thought one of the more interesting comments on this comes from the two cambridge academics he consulted pre-invasion..
..they say that blairs’ mind was clearly already made up..
..and they countered the academics warning of what would happen..
(and what has come to pass..as they predicted..)
..with blairs’ simplistic-rejoinders’ to their considered-warnings being:..
“..but saddam is an evil man’…
..that’s a bit of a head-fuck..eh..?
..that relying upon such shallow/facile/simplistic thinking..iraq has been pretty much destroyed..
..and turned into a war-torn fundamentalist hell-hole..
Yes rightly pointed out Phil, and as in any war there is a fortune to be made by the captains of greed. GW Bush father and son lined the pockets of their political backers to the tune of billions through contracts like Black Ops, and reconstruction.
:).
I’m going to get shit for the following I am damn sure!!!
Juggling Sunday (with Wallace), Q+A with Suzie (Dear), and The Nation (with “for Christ’s Sake Liza shut the fuck up and let them finish answering the question”) can be a problem.
But in our MSM representations, I’ve noticed how those that are ANGRY but who profess ‘assertiveness’, male and female alike seem to end up with bloody great verticle wrinkles above their top lip. I now understand what my somewhat racist/mysogynist father once banged on about.
The top lip verticle wrinklers characterise themsleves by utterings like:
“The fact is ……”
“Oh rubbish….”
“There is no Alternative..”
“End of Story!!!! …”
….. and no other difference of opinion matters OR should be tolerated.
In today’s MSM offerings, check out Michelle Boag, and indeed Suzie herself, plus Pagani’s developing verticles.
It’s sad that the above are all female, because it affects male and female alike.
…. and of course I do have a neighbour that’s a Vein (aka Vain) Doctor and into all that Caci Clinic shit who (with his wife) drives around in a black Penis extension the both of them have no spatial awareness of size (whether crossing lanes, or pathetically trying to park).
I’ll delve into it further. Boag’s are especially revealing though.
Hi Tim
Pass on your findings. I have been air travelling lately and looking at my ‘fellow
travellers’ I noticed some that looked as if everything had been grim since they read fairy stories.
I am getting anxious that reading the news and political columns will result in a similar unpleasant expression on my face that will set forever. At the end of this year I don’t want to find I look like a Shar Pei dog!
I tried to edit but didn’t have permission to do so but it was as follows
EDIT: Oh and just in case you’re thinking this is an affront to the female form …. I’ll give you a generalisation about males that comes from living with a few .
Bear potted males are bloody useless aims when pissing. I’m not sure whether it’s ‘cos they can’t see their own dicks, or whether they’re just slovenly, but the yellow liquid around the base of the toilet says it all!
Of course though I expect shit thrown at me, I’d rather see intelligent discussion on non-superficial stuff, with a diversity of opinion given free reign.
(even if it is PU versus Bad12) :p
Tim
We are a wide-ranging discussion forum here. Toilets have their place, they are not to be taken lightly, and toilet humour by nature, tends to be robust. But eeeyuuh get cleaning the one you mention soon. And then have a look at Mrs Brown’s Boys on tv – there is plenty of robust humour to match. Just found it recently.
On a more positive note.
Happy New Year!
And to you.
Time to plant the garlic.
Merry Matariki!
The Octagon lantern parade last night was fabulous, it’s just a shame it was too windy for the fireworks.
It was very cool, had a great vantage point to see the whole thing from.
Apparently, not until next week.
DTB
My whanau have always treated it as pretty much synonymous with solstice, which may not be that traditional but is convenient. Anyway, in Waipounamu it’s pretty rare that you can either; see past the clouds, or endure the frosts at 5am in winter to see the stars. Especially in Otepoti/ Dunedin where I’d have to drive to Aramoana or to a Peninsula beach to have a chance of seeing the eastern horizon then.
Happy New Year everyone. I’m off for the afternoon to see if I can find a beach somewhere where I can light a fire without getting told off 🙂
The Herald’s stance on Labour’s historical donations are priceless considering how they acted when Labour reformed the laws around electoral donations making it more transparent.
ATTACK ON DEMOCRACY!
So true Ant. Herald the Hypocrisy!
Folks, confirmation that the Brass Razoo Solidarity band will be busking in Cuba Mall today between 1 – 2pm as a little fundraiser for People’s Power Ohariu. Come down and have a chat and if you have any loose change, we will gladly help lighten you of it’s load 🙂
We’ll either be near the Manners St end or on the stage south of the bucket fountain. Follow the sound!
Good luck, Rosie. I had hoped to get there, but now have friend coming with trailer to take garden rubbish to the tip – bad timing on tip trip, but beggars can’t be choosers etc etc
Hi veutoviper, nice that you had considered coming along 🙂
A friend with a trailer is a friend indeed! What a good feeling to be getting rid of all the garden rubbish – a chore at the best of times. A well deserved cuppa should be in order at the end of it.
What an understanding exchange on practicalities between Rosie and veutoviper.
I hope you have a good showing with good takings at Cuba mall Rosie, and that the wind doesn’t blow spray on you from the water sculpture – thinking of fresh Wellington winds. A trailer in the hand is worth two dozen in others’ backyards!
The hypocrisy by some of the posters at this site is astonishing.
As i have said for a very long time Labour is every bit as bad as National and David Cunliffe is at best cringeworthy.
If the left truly want change to take place in the NZ political landscape we need to strongly support real parties of the left and consign Labour to the scrap heap or a merger with their spiritual home in the National party.
Yeah, you have drunk the kool-aid, haven’t you?
Letting yourself be led by the nose by John Armstrong is a bad look, especially in light of Geddis’ contribution over at Pundit.
A singular feature of any anti-Labour story the National Party cooks up is the number of alleged lefties jumping on the bandwagon, hand-wringing, defeatist, and in the next breath they’ll tell you the Left needs unity.
Pfft.
“………..cringeworthy”
Don’t keep your head in foil, it dries out too much, as you’ve discovered..
This is cringe : “They strolled the White House South Lawn, checked out the president’s putting green, had a squiz at Obama’s back orifice and First Lady Michelle Obama’s famous veggie garden, and part of the White House the family use.” “It was cool”
tinfoilhat
‘As I have said for a very long time’ – you can say that again, and you will I am sure. Yoicks! Don’t you ever stop. Take up lawn bowls or riparian planting or something useful you can manage why don’t you.
David Cunliffe is doing a good job. Death by a thousand cuts and poisoned arrows from people such as yourself is hard to withstand and I think he is doing well. Go for it our David and don’t think of simply being against Goliath, the opposition you have from NACT is more like a male Gorgon.
+100 grey
100+ grey at 16.4
Yep, stop supporting Labour, who really are there just as much for the rich and the corporations as National, and start supporting real Left parties:
Mana
Democrats
Alliance
Internet
Greens
Your first priority should be kicking out this present National government and its coalescing partners.
Your second priority should be not to undermine the Labour party and thus damage your chance of getting rid of National.
Labour’s doing quite well undermining itself. And there’s other, actual left parties, that exist that can be voted for.
Geddis nails it. Again.
Yes saw that. Tell me. Who donated that much money? Anonymous. Might have been Mr Wang. Might have been Mr Liu. “Undisclosed Client.”
It could have been the National Party, secure in the knowledge that all they have to do is play their tune and you’ll start dancing to it.
Wouldn’t be surprised.
Except that it was not all in one go. Total $150,000 but of that $100k was for a bottle of wine.
Pretty easy to clear up. Let Liu open all his books for the last ten years to an impartial third party: I suggest the Inland Revenue Department.
The 100k for a bottle of wine, if true, did not have to be declared any more than John Key’s 50k tie. Even wretched authoritarian followers like you don’t obey the laws that haven’t been passed yet.
Capital gains tax would have had to be paid by Labour under their new policy. Pity it wasn’t in then……..
Perhaps the bottle was simply filled with urine for all you know.
You taking the piss again?
Yes, it was legal, but what about the “image” of Labour, spending much time accusing National of “crony capitalism”, of “access for cash”, of the use of “cabinet clubs” to raise cash, and exploiting such electioneering slogans and topics?
It smells of hypocrisy, and that is how the public will perceive it.
Cunliffe did not help with his trust to raise funds for his leadership campaign. He (justifiably) can still withhold names of two donors to his campaign, but it does not look good!
There has been a lot coming together, and while it is of course a smear campaign, it is opening a pandora’s box, and reveals again the past actions of Labour in fund-raising and more.
So the Nats have come with a return fire attack, and nobody talks about policy, while the media just loves such stuff, digging up “dirt”, or supposed “dirt” and “scandals”, to get more readership, viewers and listeners, justifying more advertising sales and charges.
Labour did not do their homework, and they still carry the past load of baggage, from when they were in government, and courting rich and powerful, to donate to them, same as National and ACT.
I am afraid the damage is done.
Fear certainly is the mind killer.
I have a confession. I secretly donated one trillion dollars to the Labour Party. Ok, I’m not going to sign an affidavit to that effect, but I will allow the Herald to claim I’ve said that in a statement, though I’d prefer it they didn’t actually show anyone the statement or say how they got it.
I’m not convinced Liu made such a donation. Interesting that it has now gone from $15,000 to $150,000. Just alter the comma and add a naught- easy-peasy. I guess that’s the point of TRP @ 18. 🙂
Why would someone like Liu, who is on record as having a tendency to suck up to those in power, make an anonymous donation of $150,000 through a legal firm? Surely, he would want those in power to know he had made the donation. He certainly made sure the Nats knew about his donations. Very strange.
And since Mr Liu said that he had donated equal amounts to National and to Labour where does he or his lawyers show that this was true?
It was always 150k. It’s just at the time, only 15k was confirmed.
I know you won’t take personal responsibility for your lies, so I’ll take advantage of this opportunity to draw attention to your hypocrisy as well as your dishonesty.
Only it is not the same donation, but thanks for bringing to our attention there was another $150k donation, even though it was properly declared.
Oh sure. That explains why Liu won’t sign an affidavit.
I think the $150k you so touchingly pin your hopes on was some other punter’s $150k.
The 15k isn’t confirmed at all.
It can’t be you because you were anonymous.
so just why is new zealand politics being whipsawed by first a german and now a chinese.
wait till a martian gets here!
dimebag russell
Try to keep the comments straightforward and cut the creeping xenophobia, it doesn’t aid intelligent political discussion. I thought that is what you were aiming at – showing us your intelligence and incisive, crisp comment.
I am back and catching up with the news.
David Cunliffe was excellent, coming across very much as a strong and articulate leader with integrity:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Interview-Labour-leader-David-Cunliffe/tabid/1356/articleID/349586/Default.aspx
Yes, David has galvinised my support. I am making a donation to his campaign 🙂
I thought David Cunliffe was great on Q&A his morning. Feel very encouraged, especially as Key has gifted the Labour Party a major point of difference with his toadying up to Uncle Sam.
Yes, David Cunliffe is very good this morning as can be seen at:
http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/no-evidence-donations-david-cunliffe-video-6009562
Trial by dirt and mud, set up by Nuts with obliging media.
And David emerges in champion form!
David as Prime Minister from September 2014!!!
This panel discussion on that interview is worth watching too. Watch what Robert Reid has to say, especially at the end!
http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/no-evidence-donations-david-cunliffe-video-6009562
I also found the TPP discussion enlightening too.
http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/panel-discuss-tpp-video-6009565
You can also find other Q and A video clips from today here:
http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/ta-tvnz-index-group-2556429
Your first link should be this one?
http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/panel-discuss-david-cunliffe-interview-video-6009560
The link with the last digit 2 is the panel discussion, and the link with the last digit 0 is the Cunliffe interview.
Thanks for pointing out the other links that I have checked out.
Sorry, it is the other way around .. the numbers assigned to the links do not reflect chronological order!
Funny watching that, it’s like journalists still haven’t got that the membership, affiliates, and caucus decide on the Labour leadership, Cunliffe’s only “gone” after the election if it’s the democratic will of the party.
The great political lesson of 2014:
“Beware of Chinamen bearing gifts”!
Why? What has Labour done that you think is so wrong?
Oh that’s right, Maurice Williamson interfered in a police investigation, Liu looks dirty by association with Williamson, and Labour look dirty because The New Zealand Herald says they do.
wyndham
Don’t be so bloody offensive with the implication that that sort of comment is one that we should accept.
greywarbler.
If you choose to see anything offensive in my (possibly poor) attempt at humour, then that is exactly what you will see. Nothing offensive was intended.
I’ll lay odds that all the political parties will in future be extremely careful about any financial dealings with Chinese businessmen.
Don’t be such a sensitive wee sausage!
wyndham
Don’t be such a fool. Of course we have to be careful in our dealings with wealthy powerful nations, USA, Germany, UK, indonesia, Brazil, India, China etc and none of those is entirely trustworthy. France sent bombers employed by their government and blew up a ship in our docks, they dropped nuclear bombs in our part of the world, the USA is planning to conscript our forces for their alternative army to the UN.
We have to be alert about financial and other problems from all nations, and not get caught up in prejudicial language and stereotypes. There is great trouble for us ahead as we try and keep our heads above a tide of global hegemony of wealth swamping us from wherever.
Don’t be an insensitive saveloy, aim for a higher cuisine and judicious gourmet language. Following the behaviour and language of tunnel-visioned politicians, was it Collins talking about sausages, would confirm you as a fool.
From No Right Turn:
…..Naturally, there’s no mention of a $100,000 donation in Labour’s 2007 party donation return. But there’s a reason for this: our electoral law at the time did not count over-valued purchases as “donations”. So, you could pay $100,000 for a $20 bottle of wine as a backhanded way of slipping a party or a candidate some cash in exchange for a favour, and they would not have to report it in any way to the public. Things have changed since then: In December 2007 Labour passed the Electoral Finance Act……”
Another piece of sanity? I like the bit about: (I guess there’s an alternative explanation that those pundits and insiders are total goldfish with no memory, or ignoring inconvenient facts because they have axes to grind, which is believable. The political scientists OTOH have no excuse because they actively debated the law at the time).
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/
So, then I assume Labour would have declared the funds received as income for the purpose of GST if it in fact was the proceed of sales?
I take it you mean this post.
Another morning, another lot of opinions on our dire straits with poverty in NZ. (They have been playing Mark Knoppfler? – isn’t that cute, or trite?)
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday
I am listening to Wallace Chapman Professor Dr Jonathan Boston and of course the only person who knows anything about beneficiaries, Lindsay Mitchell. Dr Boston is so dry he must be cracked. Add water and he would leak all over. He is in agreement with a rise for super entrance to 67. That is how we will balance the needs of older and younger. Boston has co-written Child Poverty in NZ.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10181859/Lift-super-age-to-beat-child-poverty
Also he finds ways to advocate against raising the minimum wage.
Then Wallace reads an email pointing out the money wasted on gambling etc and Mitchell has spoken about budget advice.
Why not Susan St John as academic and objective commentator on child poverty instead of neo-lib obssessed right winger Mitchell?
For the benefit of Radio NZ and Wallace Chapman’s team including Jeremy Rose, here is a link to Wikipedia about the Child Poverty Action Group who I consider are well informed about the problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Poverty_Action_Group_(Aotearoa_New_Zealand)
“Why not Susan St John as academic and objective commentator on child poverty instead of neo-lib obsessed right winger Mitchell?”
Perhaps because she has extreme views, and we know what she will say before she even opens her mouth. “Tax rich pricks more and increase the size of welfare checks.” Or words to that effect.
And what’s wrong with that?
Do you really want people to be living on the streets.
When we had a top tax rate of 66% we had the highest living standards in the world. I people wanted a house, they got one. If people want health care, they got it.
It is greedy people like you who charge high rents from houses, high dividends from power companies, and leave people in poverty.
S Rylands doesn’t want too many people living on the streets, because they’d smell and he’d have to step on them physically as well as by proxy. On the other hand they are a great weapon in the Tory arsenal: “you’re lucky to have a job”.
It’s all about striking the right balance.
I was complaining about the poor advice and opinion that I was hearing on Radionz about child poverty. Drylands from Oz, the land of dry, reinforces my point so well.
What the RWs want is to keep repeating their mantras which they know won’t work to solve whatever problem is being discussed, but they fill the time and space, and their talk appears as honest attempts to consider and search for better outcomes.
But no, the discourse just maintains the status quo system which is moulded to suit them, or vice versa for profitable, pragmatic reasons. That is why Drylands can say that Susan St John ‘has extreme views’ – she is outside the accepted discourse.
And nothing is said or done that would make a real difference – no opinion of note is encouraged or acted on which would differ from the mantra, unless it is in a half-hearted way as a pilot. That then will have a period of implementation and then be dropped even if it has good results, or it will go forward but have the guts cut out from it with further but inadequate funding and short time frames. This enables, finally, the RW to say ‘We tried, but it didn’t work’ with hand-wringing Uriah Heep-like.
The talk needs to get to the heart of the matter, and allow for the perceived faults of those having difficulties, which requires a heart, empathy and understanding, not found commonly in the common sense opinions and actions of RWs.
There is no money to fix child poverty – so they say
There is no money to fix youth unemployment – so they say
There is no money to keep Super at 65 – so they say
Yes NZ households have $120B in bank deposits
There is another $200B in managed funds
In May one Auckland real estate company alone sold 1109 Auckland houses for a combined value of $779.6M – that’s in ONE MONTH
Well it looks to me like there’s plenty of money sloshing around the system, its just that we don’t care enough about child poverty, youth unemployment or Super to find the few billion dollars needed a year to sort it all out.
^
This deserves a post on its own.
More discussion and debate on the points being raised would be great.
CV Those figures are I am sure coming from you, correct. Where do the unbelievers find them? What link in the stats or tables to get them?
I have just been visiting in the north of the NI and there is money available for lots of things up there. But I was in Northland and some young guys skating along the main route stepped out into the path of my relative’s car and spat at her. Not a good feeling, especially as coping with that in traffic could have resulted in an injury, which would have added injury to insult and I mean for all parties involved.
The bad feelings build as the unemployment, the underemployment, the poverty goes on. And I hear there is the constant experience of employers of useless, rude, careless, and virtually unemployable young people.
Yet after talking to an older very experienced previously builder, and thoughtful man about his dealings with youngsters getting PEP jobs, work experience and training and how useful it was to prepare and motivate the happier youngsters, I can only shake my head in sorrow that nothing is now done like that in a nation-wide program.
This would ensure that there is a basic employment available with working for the dole, doing useful stuff that is not make-work, and with payment incentives for each successful monthly program completed so that would give opportunities to buy clothes, pay off a bike etc and make a life, while still being on the dole, but be a vital, semi-skilled person ready for a job when it became available. I was shown apparently constant newspaper advertisements from companies unable to find employees. The reasons for this difficulty was implied to be that people are too lazy, or their education is inadequate.
But there is no will to run work schemes, to integrate young people into the working community with useful skills and receiving respect from all, by despicable RWs. There is money for all sorts of things, but not for the displaced people. By this I mean those displaced by the bloody neo liberal, free market policies adopted by our government and dominant economists and financiers. It is a disgrace and the smugness and excuses of the wealthy that blame poverty and social disintegration on the victims of the shitty systems that Labour subversives introduced and NACTs happily followed is callous and determined ignorance, and has led to destruction of our society.
And so many people I meet fall into victim blaming, and denigration of the unemployed and beneficiaries. The next step is walling themselves off as in gated communities and arguments about whether charity works and whether people should be allowed to beg, or busk because the hands are out too much and it is unpleasant and a nuisance.
It would cost $280M per year to provide minimum wage jobs to 10,000 young people. Resolving many of the issues that you saw. That would be money flowing into local communities which the government would then tax back into its own coffers over time.
May Auckland house sales for Barfoot and Thompson, 1109 properties for a total of $779.6M
http://www.barfoot.co.nz/Market-reports/2014/May/Market-update.aspx
RBNZ household deposits April 2014
$128.0B
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/tables/c17/
RBNZ managed funds Mar 2014
$93.4B (sorry it was from memory and I got this figure wrong before)
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/tables/c17/
And overall money supply as tracked by the RBNZ is up $32B since April 2012 to over $240B, so the amount of money in the economy is still expanding rapidly BUT very little of it is going to where it is required for our poor and our young.
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/tables/c1/
Thanks CV
Big money going into Whangarei. Near Marsden Point refinery – big open area deemed Marsden City. ready for development. And nearby large numbers of 1970’s Oz style houses in a marina type development with special lock installed to ensure proper depth near houses for regular yachts. Auckland people are trying to sell their places high, and buy north for lower with a tidy sum left over for other purposes.
Big developments in South Auckland with water views and many two storey houses in modern style with colonnades at front door or boxy modern look all with large windows and often no front fences allowed. Lots of plantings and green areas and walkways around and they are set up for wifi or broadband or both, not quite up with it. Pretentious and expensive.
So there is much money expected with return on investment by developers and their financiers, although there is much complaining at the ‘unreasonable’ way that Council loads costs on each section.
And in comparison, funding full time minimum wage jobs for 10,000 youths costs not much money at all, especially for the societal benefit reaped.
We have never needed foreign capital. All we’ve needed is the people to do the job which includes making our natural resources available. This is why we need higher productivity and better education. It makes those people available.
Amazingly enough, it doesn’t take money to make these things available but the political will to change the system.
But SSLands, you always label views that don’t agree with yours as being extreme.
Any functioning society needs to have a cross generation agreement that the very young are nurtered until ready to go out on their own and in turn the older generation will be looked after. Even animals can do this, but perhaps there are species below that.
The plan to disrupt and distract for the next 16 weeks is well under way. Labour announce a policy and then a few hours later some Labour scandal emerges. Everyone talks about the scandal and forgets the policy. 15 more scandals to go. Thanks for the tip offs by the ABC’s.
fisiani
If you mean the traitor; Shane Jones, by “ABC’s” [sic] then perhaps, but Lui seems to be a much more likely source.
Your plan is always to disrupt and distract, I assume you’ll continue until your next ban – not just the next 16 weeks. However, I doubt you have any more knowledge of actual National Party tactical intentions than I do.
Your words have that distinctive tone of flatulance from a fizzy anus.
So this is your example of intelligent debate? Toilet humour. Are you an adult?
“…fuckwit…xenphobic (sic) turd.” S Rylands 21.6.14.
I know you won’t take personal responsibility for your hypocrisy, so I look forward to many more opportunities to rub your face it in. Cheers cobber.
Srylands
I don’t consider either you or fisiani capable of intelligent debate; but please prove me wrong. I consider my comment at 11 to be an attempt at considered discourse, the one at 25.1 was simply me taunting an idiot. Nor did I say that a toilet was necessarily involved – in his case I regard those words are a merely farting through a RWNJ Santorum of bigotry.
Your neoliberal anti-socialist bullshit on the other hand requires a shovel more than a toilet.
Wow! “Traitor” to go with “Scab”, labour are really using up the arsenal -eh?
labour? you should rectify your comment before the moderators read that.
Well SJ is a traitor, given that he supports the lowering of environment and labour market standards to enrich industrialists.
You are a traitor and a scab as well, given that you had solid working class union credentials, and then you support and vote for a party that wishes to destroy the trade union movement, and throw the workers and the most vulerable to the wolves. Do you really want people living in caravans grumpy? Do you really want NZ to go down that road?
Plus you support the continal degradation of air and water quality that will ensure that people will have crippling health effects over an ongoing period.
Some of what you say is true Millsy. I am, what you might call a reformed character. In defense, I would have to point out that my role as union branch secretary and advocate was when we had “solid working class unions”.
Labour certainly is no longer the representative of the workers, and for that matter, nor are the unions.
Translated Grumpy: Tired old hack can’t make it in the world of voluntary unionism so defects to the darkside.
Nope, after surviving dozens of restructuring a in the Douglas years finished up starting my own business, employ 15 people with offices in Christchurch and Auckland.
My dissatisfaction with the unions began and ended when they worked hand in glove with management to destroy the public sector. The Labour Party under Lange and Clark were the biggest hypocrites imaginable. I see no change.
So you go an support for and vote for policies that turn NZ into a large sweatshop economy.
You really are a scab. It is because of people like you we have families in garages.
Do you really thing banning trade unions is going to make things “better”?
“… after surviving dozens of restructuring a in the Douglas years …”
So you were bullshitting when you claimed to be a branch secretary and advocate? Good to know.
Nope, we also had jobs in the organization we worked for, union work and advocacy was voluntary and in addition to our normal job.
I just believe that left wing politics has nothing to offer NZ as they are now, in fact none of the major left parties offer much for the workers, the future has to be a high wage economy with a strong currency. I just happen to believe the best way to achieve that is with National (at present).
So how do you reconcile that with National’s labour laws? They will only slash wages, not to mention take breaks away from workers?
And do you think our health care system should be Americanised?
Assets sold off?
State housing tenants kicked out?
Surely wages will be higher if unions are allowed to flourish and not kept in their box like National wants to do?
Did your union go bust, Grumpy?
To deal with TRP first, it was one of the many Railways unions and just got absorbed by whatever took over after the workshops were closed down.
As for Millsy, I think the biggest step towards turning NZ into a sweatshop economy was done during the Douglas/Lange years. The current policy of Left to lower the currency will also have the consequence of lowering real wages.
All the other issues you list might surprise you, the answer is no to all those. You might be surprised that I am actually a bit leftie on those causes. In particular, I think it was the biggest con every to break up the publicly owned electricity system and would support re nationalizing.
The unions as they are do not do their job, prime example the education sector unions, more interested in protecting their patch than the interests of their members to maximize their income based on their ability.
No, the teaching unions want to protect the PUBLIC provision of education. Where as if National had their way, education would be privatised and run by churches and businesses. Like they were prior to 1877. They are already halfway there with charter schools. Science and technology is vital to this country if we want it to prosper, but if our children are being taught that the earth was created by waving a magic wand, then we have no hope.
And then teachers would find themselves as casual employees.
Plus we need to lower the currency to help our exporters.
I personally favour a “just right” currency myself.
Which is?
I think you are half right……wrong about currency though. If a business can only survive because it is cheap, it shouldn’t be there. To lower the exchange rate, depress wages and increase import costs just to give an inefficient business the ILLUSION of wealth is stupid.
I understand your concerns about education and if that were the result, I would agree but I just don’t buy into your fears.
I still dont see how a high currency can lead to higher wages.
It has been the case for over 100 years that collective bargaining high union membershiop with strong respect for workers to form and join unions (Peter Jackson doesnt have that respect) (doesnt have to be 100% ) and strong labour protections lead to higher wages. Which is why wages in the US, China and India are low.
Under a high currency, the wages you earn have higher purchasing power. If currency is lowered and wages stay the same, this is a decrease because purchasing power is diminished.
The goal is increased wages with a strong currency, if we are held back by businesses that can only exist because they are cheap, and low wages and currency are the means to that, then we don’t need that business.
Not too high and not too low.
It seems obviously that if the dollar is too high, then our exporters suffer and if it is too low, then we end up paying more for imported goods (though smartphones and tablets are something we can do without if needs be).
We might have to end up fixing like we used to.
or this ..
‘Float’ or peg the NZD within an undisclosed bandwidth of a central parity … but ensure close monitoring by the Reserve Bank against an undisclosed basket of currencies of major trading partners and competitors. This, in theory, allows the government to have more control over imported inflation and to ensure our exports remain competitive.
That was largely borrowed from an economy that has successfully managed their currency.
Grumpy
I’m a Green Party member, not Labour.
Have you a better term for one who; takes National MP donations for his Labour leadership campaign, and then promptly flees to a job specially created by National when this revealed in the media?
Bryce Edwards seems to be having his own brand of brain fade. Compare and contrast his opinion on the alleged Liu donation to the Labour Party in today’s Herald, with the Key $50,000 G Tie/ Wong affair. (Reposting this link from yesterday’s open mike in case people missed it)
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2010/12/pansy-wongs-dubious-solicitation-of-political-funding.html
heh –
Just want to remark that if I had such large amounts of disposable cash, then $100 000 for a bottle of wine signed by Helen Clark is more than twice as desirable than a $50 000 tie. I mean, at least I could drink the wine.
I don’t know – a John Key tie could have its uses. Like for dressing a John Key voodoo doll for instance.
I like the way you think lol
So now I’m wondering if Labour will do worse in the coming election then National did in 2002 but more interestingly will Labour bleed off enough votes that the Greens party becomes the single largest left wing party in government
Interesting times indeed
Labour 30% to 34% range; strong gutsy left wing policy, unapologetic and unashamed = top end of the range, weak centrist watered down policy on minor matters = bottom of the range
Get rid of raising the retirement age = 1%-2% boost all round
30% – 34% range is a tad optimistic
You would stand around watching the last huia’s death throes would you chris73? Trying to salvage NZs valuable political infrastructure knowing it may disintegrate is not interesting, that is not the right word. Greens cannot replace Labour, it can’t be done.
I wouldn’t compare the Labour party to a bird for one thing besides I never said Labour would become extinct rather its heading for a major hiding at the election and suggesting the damage will be so bad that the Greens may become the the biggest party on the left
Labour approx 27% – 30% Greens approx 10% – 12% were Labour to shed 8% – 10% and the Greens to pick up 7% – 9% of that in the upcoming months then the election will be less about National winning and more about the Greens taking over Labour as the party of opposition
Although were this come to pass I think it would be only temporary as Labours true believers would come back to the fold after a period of time
Given the Greens are aiming at 15%, and seem unlikely to get that high given polling, your suggested outcome is delusional.
True but then a couple of weeks ago if I’d have suggested that Labour had taken over 100 grand from a chinese businessman and not declared it I’d have been called (among other things) delusional as well
I’m thinking that in light of the recent events the Greens may well be upgrading their target
Are you even aware of the false frame?
If he bought a bottle of wine it didn’t have to be declared. Just like your operator’s $50k tie.
Are you the Central Scrutinizer, here to enforce all the laws that haven’t been passed yet? Or are you simply a pedestrian, partisan ex-squaddy doing your best to imitate a parrot?
Naah its just nice to watch someone being hoist by their own petard
Which is?
That Judith Collins tried to cover up her massive conflict of interest, Maurice did his best to pervert the course of justice, Banksie is going to prison, and since you don’t want to talk about any of that let’s discuss policy? No? Because donations?
You’re as transparent as Dr. Mapp.
Its amusing watching Cunliffe be found out as incompetent over Liu when it was Labour that brought him up but it was even funnier watching Robertson talk about Gotcha politics beside Collins
Of course I’m transparent, I want National to win the election because National are good for the country, I’m less keen on Labour winning because they’d have to bring in a whole bunch of nutters with them and that’d be bad for the country
I don’t think what Collins, Williamson, Banks and Cunliffe did or didn’t do was so bad but so be it smears are done because smears work and both sides use them
Do you think theres any more to come out over this because I think theres more
Oh, I’m sure National are so desperate they’ll do anything but discuss policy, and that they have concocted more smears, but that’s to be expected, cf. Piff et al 2012.
So what? National are trying to win an election which means the ends justifies the means
Personal responsibility is your watchword, eh.
Good luck for 2017
Eat shit and die on September 20th.
🙂
😈
Greens cannot replace Labour, but can take a good chunk of voters from it. Add to it the 1+% of Internet Mana and Labour risks becoming a minor component of the opposition to Key’s next term government.
McCully standing aside for Col Craig. This is hot off the press. I mean radio.
off twitter yup
hey maybe he can get a job as Pullahs Bennett new PA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BREAKING: Colin Craig confirms he’ll contest Murray McCully’s East Coast Bays electorate. More soon on http://newstalkzb.co.nz
Latest Roy Morgan poll puts the conservatives at 1.5% and if McCully steps aside then the Conservatives could see 3% so he’d bring in 3-4 MPs with him I guess
So Key will sign up to a coalition deal with Colin Craig?
Gives him more options and will reinforce the notion that voting for the left is a waste of time so he may still only need the Maori Party and Peter Dunne
So Key and National view Colin Craig as a serious option?
I’d imagine he’d be the last cab of the rank and probably won’t be needed
I understand. But if Key needed Colin Craig to form a Government, do you think that Key would actually stoop that low and do it?
He’d be the last cab of the rank but hes still in the rank so my feeling is yes as its better for NZ otherwise it’d be Labour/Greens/IMP/WinstonFirst (maybe) and that’d be really bad for NZ
No, it wouldn’t. Your ethically challenged judgement is unreliable in this matter as in others.
He was happy to not only suck up to the criminal John Banks, but use him as the excuse for charter schools.
In any case Chris73 has already accepted that Paul Piff et al’s findings are true.
Well I don’t know who Paul Piff is and I don’t really care but if it means National wins the next election then I’m relaxed about it
Google is your friend if you’d like to read their work, but in a nutshell, they (him and et al) show that right wingers are not only stupid (cf. Hodson & Busseri) and terrified of the bogeyman (Kanai et al), their ethics are in the gutter too.
I’ll look it up after Nationals returned to power so in about three months or so
No you won’t. In fact you probably have trouble recognising how your relentless demonstration of gullibility and bad faith makes your pronouncements as reliable as tea-leaves.
I thought you were going to say as reliable as Cunliffe 🙂
Your dreaming 73, even the smile and hugging of babies from John Key won’t get the people of East Coast Bays to vote enough in numbers for the God Botherers Party. It an’t Epsom… dida dang dang dang!
How off putting to National if Key try’s this one on. One thing it says is National are worried the Left will get the vote out. And of course we will in record numbers. I am one of probably a thousand that is taking a week off work to campaign in the final week of the election. We have the numbers out on the streets this time. And don’t you wingnuts hate that aye Hooton, Shrillands and co!
🙂
Exactly Skinny. Key can count, and he can see the internal polling, and he’s shitting himself.
Same goes for all his little fuck-monkeys, chris73 et al.
Every smiley smells like fear.
Another blow to the Left, it’s all over…….http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/10916086/The-scandal-of-fiddled-global-warming-data.html
🙄
Too funny – a Heartland affiliated moran who in the past has asserted white asbestos poses no measurable risk to health and there’s no scientific evidence to support the belief that inhaling other people’s smoke causes cancer.
Entirely plausible to Grumpy though
Grumpy
Christopher Booker quoting the “Real Science” blog is your proof?
Do you also follow his lead in denying the risks of; passive smoking, BSE, and asbestos? Do you favour the conjecture of Intelligent Design, over the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection?
Anyway, even if true; I can see how this might this might be a blow to the Greens (though there are many reasons to safeguard our ecosphere beyond climate change – it’s just the most pressing). But the left predates this by many decades, if not centuries (depending how one defines the term).
:yawn:
Oh joy, so much hyperbole and lack of actual discussion on what was actually done to the data.
Anyhow, it’ll be the same old bullshit parade that occurred over the land-surface temperature data and corrections and weightings made to the data to avoid biases from local environmental effects (land island heat effects, elevation, etc etc), and thus not cause issues with statistical analysis tools*. Which will be confirmed as the rebuttals start rolling in to Brooker’s evidence free bullshit.
Also, generally if there’s issues with how data is manipulated, it comes up in ye olde journals, not the fucking telegraph of all places, a place more renowned for failing at science 101, particularly with any science that gets in the way of tory politics.
=======================================================
*short version; there’s assumptions that data need to meet in order to use a particular analysis on them, and if not meet or violated it leads to the results being biased or utterly useless, r.e. parametric vs non-parametric and fun with binomial’s, or multiple variable data sets being used for a student T-test instead of being run through an ANOVA or more suitable GLM variant.
So you think we should go on pumping filth into the air?
Do you want your grandchildren to breath clean air. Seeing as you dont want them to have sick leave, you dont want them to have clean air either.
Two issues, stick to pollution and I will support you, try to whip up hysteria on Global Warming which is being shown every day to be more of a con, and I just laugh.
not much hope for your grandkids then mate. Hope you live to a ripe old age so you can answer to them why you didn’t take climate change seriously when you had the chance.
I’m still waiting for the price of holiday homes in the Marlborough Sounds to come down, meanwhile Sumner is full of Greenies paying over the odds for waterfront properties.
McCully standing list only. No National candidate standing in East Coast Bays
WinstonFirst not getting any traction with anti-immigration talk so its really looking bad for the left
@ chris 73…you crow too soon
this will be a real boost for Winston NZF i would have thought…no one likes new immigrants bringing corruption in tow , trying to manipulate and buy our political system and politicians to their own personal material advantage
…. and then when found out ….pointing the finger at other innocent opposition political leaders and parties …aided and abetted by NACT newspaper innuendo and media bias…but no facts as yet …only slander
NZers will take a very poor view of this…. just as they did with Mayor Brown’s goings on and subsequent voting over the casino/convention centre
Sure it will, wishing something comes true doesn’t ackshully make it happen so lets just wait until the next round of polls
that is if you believe Herald polls …i don’t !
Let me guess, if every poll (including the Roy Morgan poll) shows a drop in Labour you still wouldn’t believe it
no as Bolger said “Bugger the Polls!”
….many people do not declare their hand until Election Day!
…and Winnie, as you should know, often defies the Poll predictions!
Don’t get your hopes up
Becuase people dont seem to realise that immigrants are pushing NZers out of our jobs, schools and universities, because they are putting immigrants first.
http://nzfirstparty.org.nz/join
Here fisi fisi fisi:
Maybe Winston Peters should stand in East Coast Bays too?
Not sure how good that is considering he may not support a Labour government.
How about Laila Harre?
The Labour Party President has published a statement re Mr Liu. Cannot find it yet but it does cast doubt on Mr Liu’s credibility. eg There was no fund raiser on the book auction date given by Liu.
Here it is:”Statement from Moira Coatsworth, Labour Party President, Donghua Liu reported allegations – summary of facts
22 Jun 2014
Several media organisations have reported that Donghua Liu claims he purchased a book for $15,000 at a Labour Party fundraiser in 2007. We have found no records of any such purchase. No-one has provided any documentary evidence to us that contradicts our records.The Herald on Sunday has reported that Donghua Liu has signed a statement claiming he paid “close to $100,000” for wine at a 2007 Labour Party fundraiser. The Herald on Sunday have refused to provide us with a copy of the statement or even let us read the statement. We consider this to be a denial of natural justice.
The Herald on Sunday reports that Donghua Liu’s statement was signed on 3 May 2014, but the paper only contacted us about the statement yesterday. This delay raises serious questions.
The Herald on Sunday have, however, disclosed to us that Donghua Liu’s statement claims the fundraiser was held on 3 June 2007. We have found no record of any fundraiser held on that date.
We have had no approaches from the Electoral Commission or any regulatory agency. We have always cooperated with regulators, and will always do so when required.
We continue to call on Donghua Liu and any third parties who might have information about these allegations, including the Prime Minister, to place what they know into the public domain or to refer to the regulators."
Glad it is the Party fronting this and not David.
Yes its the smart way of doing it
It’s the only way to do it. To be fair to Cunliffe, little of the donation saga can yet be attributed to him so the Party should always have made the running on this.
Any fallout will affect the whole party of which Cunliffe is just the current leader.
Lisa Owen: After the week you’ve had, could it get any worse?
David Cunliffe: Look I actually think this hasn’t been too bad a week at all. What’s happened is that support for me within my team is absolutely rock solid and I think public support has galvanised in the face of what people can see is pretty petty politics by the current government.
The Cunliffe thinks that Labour are unsinkable but so too did many on the Titanic. I wonder if he will stop the bluster a few minutes before his concession speech or will he still be defiant and know that the specials will be a landslide.
So much easier to simply talk to one another, but for the inconvenient embodiment of “insufficient contact with out-groups” eh. The Herald will go behind a pay-wall soon and then you can haz yr very own Tea Party. That will make everything ok since all right-thinking people will flock to you.
🙂
Here fisi fisi fisi:
And I’ll keep posting this until you reply 😈
http://www.thepoliticalscientist.org/the-real-story-in-the-fairfax-polls/
Maybe everyone else has already read this but off the sidebar at the Standard there is an intriguing explanation of the Fairfax polling.
This bit was interesting:
“So, the reported support for National between November 2012 and June 2014 appears to show a 10% increase in the proportion of New Zealanders supporting the party. Yet, there are (marginally) fewer people declaring their support for National in June 2014.
ianmac
Thanks for that link – it’s much what swordfish has been saying (increasing undecided voters as election approaches) but good to see it presented graphically.
I’ve not been commenting on the polls recently as they’re not really worth the time. The thing that struck me recently is that; even though the Ipsos and Roy Morgan polls came out on the same day, with overlapping sample periods, everyone has been quoting the; Labour on 23% (I) rather than 28% (RM).
The problem I have with these polls is the very thing that Puddleglum neglects to discuss (not that I blame him – specifics of polling selection & methodology of commercial polling companies are very elusive):
Also, I think the RM results bear out my contention that their previous poll was a rogue. Sure; the Greens only gained 33% rather than the 50% I predicted, but they are back within the compass of previous results (since May 2012).
What’s Up With That: Building Bigger Roads Actually Makes Traffic Worse
And our present government wants to build more and bigger roads. Of course, there’s probably some profit to be made by having so many cars on the roads causing all these problems. Lets see:
The only people who’ll be worse off will be the majority of people who have to pay those profits and the deadly price of all that pollution.
dont forget there may be NACT hidden agendas here for a hugely increased population…and with this comes monster cities , multi-story buildings/accommodation, infrastructure, traffic , private toll roads/rail etc…..and much more opportunity for NACTS and cronies to make money
….but very little benefit to ordinary NZers who will have to compete for scarce resources against wealthy immigrants….housing, education , hospitals ….and a ruination of the nature/human balance …ie at a huge cost to our natural environment
Grumpy, why do you support the lowering of environmental standards so the air and water can be poisoned and how are you are going to explain to your grandchildren that it was people like to who voted for these standards to be lowered so people can make more money and that is why they cannot swim in the river or have to wear a gas mask then they go out.
While the world is fascinated with Picketty here’s the real gen on inequality.
Capitalists are hoarding because they havn’t screwed us enough to guarantee making profits from our labour.
So stagnation is the story…pending more cuts to wages and conditions and more M&As.
“And in a great new paper to be delivered to the upcoming Rethink Economics conference in London next weekend (http://www.rethinkingeconomicslondon.org/),
Michael Burke shows that this failure to invest is endemic to the major capitalist economies (The Great Stagnation as the Crisis of Investment). Burke shows that gross investment (both business and government and before depreciation) experienced the sharpest decline of all main components of GDP during the Great Recession. Such gross investment is down 5.2% in the OECD since 2008 and as a proportion of GDP it is down from 22% to 20%, reaching a new low since 1960.”
Michael Roberts Blog
http://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2014/06/22/investing-in-finance-but-not-in-people/
‘
The time has come to out, all the parties standing in this election in league with the polluters and plutocrats
http://www.climatevoter.org.nz/?cvs=greenpeace
Jenny
Couldn’t be bothered signing on to access the details of your claim. Please specify to what degree each party is regarded as being “in league with the polluters and plutocrats”. It seems unlikely that the Greens would be equal on such a scale to ACT. But we do have to deal with the world as it is, not how we would like it to be.
Your statement sounds like a justification for nonvoting to me, which I doubt is what those who created the “climatevoter” site intended.