Open mike 23/09/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 23rd, 2011 - 90 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

90 comments on “Open mike 23/09/2011”

  1. Dan1 1

    It is appalling that the members of the RWC choirs have not been given the seats they were promised. At one ground at least they were offered a TV set in a changing room!! Some have travelled many miles for rehearsals. No pay but the understanding they would see the games they sang for. The choirs have been one of the real success stories of the RWC. How mean spirited can you get.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Workers used and abused, usual story under a corporatocracy like international rugby is now.

    • freedom 1.2

      RWC can spin this however they like, its disgusting behaviour! Mr Sneddon do you think NZ will not care? You and your friends can make the story travel and watch the RWC ‘discover’ some tickets for the final four matches. Maybe a few of the hundreds of free VIP troughers will donate their tickets.

    • freedom 1.3
      Hundreds of tickets to the Rugby World Cup final have been returned by Corporate and Hospitality groups

      So give them to the Choirs seems obvious really!

      Yes there are bigger problems out there, but this is NZ. This is not how we do things here. Remember NZ is a Nation that cares, supposedly, about more than the mighty dollar. The Herald has comments turned off and Stuff has not even posted the article. It is up to Kiwis to show this sucks. Hassle everybody you know with this story until the Choirs get tickets

      • Jim Nald 1.3.1

        I would like to help organise an event to express outrage: a ‘flag-burning’ or ‘logo’ burning event at a city centre, with many others in attendance, preferably preceded by a march.

        Can someone suggest what should be burnt? Can there be others holding similar events at the same time, eg tomorrow or Sunday lunchtime, in other city centres around the country?

        Can someone suggest the social or community groups that would join in?

        Media should be invited to cover the event and also we should organise our own videotaping to be Youtubed. There would be lots of international media around at the moment and some should be encouraged to cover the event.

        • freedom

          RWC bunting seems the obvious choice. There is enough of it around.
          May i offer a word of caution:

          NOT NZ FLAGS ! NOT AB’s FLAGS !

          this is a RWC decision NOT an All Blacks decision.

          You will notice there are no comments from any players, that said, there are also no comments from Sneddon and the other the chief troughers either. Care to comment Mr Key ??? Care to stick your hand into your very deep pockets and pay for the tickets yourself. ???
          Your donation would be a sure winner 😉

        • grumpy

          The choir has been a huge success and the NZRFU has again shown itself to be totally incompetent from a PR viewpoint.

          Certainly justifies a protest but flag burning goes too far. There must be something appropriate – a good bit or sarcastic humour would go a long way here. NZRFU have less sense of humour than the Labour Party (and that’s saying something)

        • prism

          @Jim Nald
          Saturday Sept 24th is set aside as Moving Planet Day so let the IRB protest go, they have turned rugby into a gladiatorial game, spectacle, money-maker, business cash cow ( they want – I read that they aren’t happy with the dosh they’ve got from us) so suck it up.

          Moving Planet events are all around the country such as Nelson where advert says there will be a mini festival at the Cathedral Steps 11am – 2pm.
          I clicked the map on below link and found that red and black circles would bloom and fade, so can’t say just how and where all events are but sounds a good start. And a good follow up to the Polly Higgins thinking.

    • millsy 1.4

      I still think that the fact that the lions share of the games are on pay TV, with us plebs having to put up with ad ridden delayed coverage for the most of the games, is a scandal in itself. The sgmes should have been live on free-to-air TV.

  2. tc 2

    Sad day for music and those that like a tipple.
    REM calling it a day, faded commercially but still put out great work over 30 years with no dip in quality.
    SAB Millers final capture of Fosters will be interesting and much like Lion Nathan a national Icon goes to foreign ownership and the quality of the product IMO will decline further as the brands are made everywhere……taste imported Stella/Becks alongside the local brewed stuff.

  3. Bored 3

    Friday and the weather is good for the week end….the thought occurs to de mothball the bicycle as the weather warms. The joyous dream of meandering through the back blocks away from the noise and life threatening rush of trucks and cars, to hear the bird song as leisurely progress is made. Time passing slowly enough to behold in passing the ripple of grass on the breeze, to hear the rush of the stream as you float by on the bike.

    Hey Jokey, where the f*** is the promised cycleway????????????????

    • grumpy 3.1

      I think its that painted white line down the middle of SH1………………………

      • Bored 3.1.1

        Bloody hell, with Jokeys level and speed of investment that means the median line will fade out of existence …wont even be able to relabel that as cycleway.

  4. millsy 4

    Good to see the Hamilton City Council has its piroites right. Slashing and burning funding for community services, talking about selling assets (behind closed doors too!), and proabably cutting funding for community assets like libraries and parks, etc. All while sparing elderly homeowners rate increases (who benefited from councils who built up services, not tore them down).

    The Tea Party wannabes who infest our councils need to be reined in before there are no parks, no libaries, no nothing.

    • Aye Millsy. Unfortunately at Local Government level you get tories who are just as doctrinaire and their central equivalents but lack the ability to even understand at a base level what damage these sorts of cuts cause.

      The People’s republic of Auckland stands out as a beacon of hope and sanity in the wilderness that it Local Government!  Now if only we could get the Government to agree to the inner city loop …

      • The Voice of Reason 4.1.1

        I think you’ll find the Whanganui District Council has entered the light after a long period in the darkness, too.

      • higherstandard 4.1.2

        “Auckland a beacon of hope and sanity” are you mainlining heroin ?

        Auckland council/mayor/councillors are just as mendacious, self serving and troughaphilic as any other council.

    • Kevin Welsh 4.2

      Yet they have no problem saddling their ratepayers with the cost of the new velodrome. A building that come hell-or-higth-water SPARC was going to build as close to Auckland as possible, even though areas like Hawke’s Bay and Manawatu had fully funded options on the table. Its a bloody disgrace.

      • aerobubble 4.2.1

        Cycling is the future, roaring petrol racers are not. People who argue against
        the vello should be fined if they don’t add to the list the V8 and the rugby
        stadium to their ire.

        personally, the problem isn’t the infrastructure spend, its the perplexing
        lack of connecting up the facilities. why have we never had a
        train bringing supporters from Auckland to the conference
        center, or students to the the university, or any of the other
        big build up.

        The best thing that could happen to Hamilton is for the V8 to end.

      • Ianupnorth 4.2.2

        A velodrome being built on the grounds of a very expensive private school no less. I too am a cyclist and was involved in the early discussions around the centre of excellence – making this a Waikato BOP initiative was and still is a joke!
        BTW it was Waikato REGIONAL council who voted this through.
        The fact that Rotorua had everything that was on the criteria (Mountian Biking, BMX track, experience of hosting international events, an academy of sport, extensive road network) – the only thing it didn’t have was a covered velodrome – seems to be have been lost in the fact that it isn’t Tauranga (God’s waiting room) or Hamilton (Bogun central).
        Money talks, RDC don’t have any, but Waikato does – game over.

        • Kevin Welsh

          If only they DID have the money though, Ian. How the fuck do you bid for, and win a contract like that where evidence of funding in place was a requirement, and then go bleating to the councils for funding later?

          • smokeskreen

            This whole velodrome decision by WRC has been a complete farce and is a sad day for democracy. The decision to proceed was made despite the fact that it is not core business and 60% of 7000 submitters were against and 40% for. (Incidentally, children were also submitters even although they are not ratepayers nor have voting rights). There were also three independent reports commissioned by WRC from professionals which had red flags all over them. They advised this facility should not be expected to make a profit. This has been touted as a NATIONAL facility and is no place for ratepayer funds. The question still remains as to who is going to pay the ongoing costs of maintenance and upgrading in the future. Guess who – the bottomless pit called the ratepayer!

  5. vto 5

    I have to say that Brownlee came across well last night when questioned on Red Zoning. He put the case clearly and firmly together with points here and there in support.

    But what he didn’t offer, and what wasn’t questioned, was the issue not of whether any land is rightly zoned red, but why the people have been turfed out with nowhere to go. Why they have been thrown to the lion’s den of the “marketplace”. Why a land swap or similar was not put up. Why the govt doesn’t care about the elderly and the pensioners and the incapacitated being thrown onto the street.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1

      Why the govt doesn’t care about the elderly…

      Because that would cost money which they’ve got earmarked for themselves and their rich mates either as further tax cuts and/or subsidies.

    • Treetop 5.2

      “Why the govt doesn’t care about the elderly and the pensioners and the incapacitated being thrown onto the street.”

      You just have to look at the new HNZ policy effective since 1 July to be alarmed at how serious housing in NZ has become. Incapacitated people and pensioners are not even qualifying for HNZ assistance in spite of Heatley claiming that vulnerable people will be looked after. I consider this to be the biggest lie from the current government.

      Council housing lists are growing longer as people on NZ super or the invalid benefit do not quailfy for housing due to the formula HNZ use. Basically the main benefit rate is taken into consideration and the accommodation supplement which a person would be entitled to, then the bottom end of the scale of housing in your area is calculated. If there is a shortfall between total applicant outgoings and applicant total income you are given a 3 or 4.

      An example of a single person on the invalids benefit who lives in a provincial city.
      Main invalid benefit $251.00 (cents not included).
      One bedroom flat $150.00
      Accommodation supplement entitlement $61.00. (Max AS is $65.00 for the area).

      Other ongoing costs are included, basically a person has to have a shortfall and I am not sure by how much. I think the main benefit for a person on NZ super is $309.00. Someone on the unemployment or on sickness gets a little over $200.00 on a main benefit and their chance of scoring a 3 or 4 is higher than a person on NZ super or the invalid benefit. (I will repost with the correct main benefit figures).

      There is a health section like the income section. A person on NZ super or the invalid benefit has a greater chance of scoring a 3 or 4 compared to a person on the unemployment benefit or the sickness benefit.

      I am not sure how many 3s or 4s a person has to have, it would not surprise me if the minimum was at least two because I just scrape in with two 3s (income and health).

      Being homeless or having to vacate in 60 days or less is also taken into consideration and a person also has to look at alternative accommodation e.g. private rental.

      Millsy is bang on when she says that ghettos are being created in NZ.

      To remedy the housing problem there needs to be a MASSIVE government building programme and/or the accommodation supplement to be increased so that no one pays more than 25% of their income on housing each week.

      • Treetop 5.2.1

        Weekly main benefit rates for a single person:
        Unemployment or sickness age over 25 $201.40
        Invalid age 18+ $251.73
        NZ super single living alone $339.92

      • millsy 5.2.2

        Ummmm I’m actually a he.

        But everything else, I agree with you.

        I honestly belive that this policy was implement so that private landlords could raise their rents to inflation busting levels.

      • Vicky32 5.2.3

        I am not sure how many 3s or 4s a person has to have, it would not surprise me if the minimum was at least two because I just scrape in with two 3s (income and health).

        I am therefore incredibly lucky to have got this dump 15 years or so back, when I was on DPB with a 6 year old, and were in the having to vacate in 60 days category. By the looks, with DPB + 1, we would not qualify now. This is making me wonder actually, because apparently, having applied for a transfer means I am considered a new applicant… or am I wrong?

        • millsy

          They’ll probably turf you out soon Vicky, being a single woman with no dependants and all.

          I’d watch out for that eviction notice due when National win the election. I have it from good sources that a whole bunch are being printed up and will be served the Monday after the election..

          • Vicky32

            They’ll probably turf you out soon Vicky, being a single woman with no dependants and all.

            Wow, I really find your joyous tone about that a bit unseemly… I am on an unemployment benefit, so they might give me a pass, but even if they do kick me out, I find it difficult to care! Why are you so certain that NACT will win the election? I suppose you think that because of my being a “god-botherer”, that I voted or will vote for them… but that’s simply you jumping to an unwarranted conclusion. I would rather die than vote for the Right. Noto bene – I have not always been a single woman (either by the previous definiton of single = not married) or the current one (not currently shagging anyone. Given your bitchy remarks on the other post, I feel the need to point that out.)

            • millsy

              My tone is most certainly not joyous. Please dont accuse me of such. In fact, if I had my way, you would be in your house for the rest of your days. Along with every other state house tenant. In fact, I would quadruple the number of state housing and push the slumlords out of the market.

              And I don’t assume that you would vote for NACT. I am aware of your left credentials.

              I just know what NACT are capable of, thats all. And from what I see, they are going to carry out some serious carnage. No one is going to be safe. And I am convinced, that after the election, they will begin the biggest state house eviction program in this country’s history.

            • millsy

              And BTW, I dont care about your relationship status. ’tis none of my business 🙂

              I just note that HNZ dont really see themselves as catering for single people, thats all..

        • Treetop

          Vicky in 5.2 I gave an example of the formula HNZ use. A person on the unemployment or sickness benefit is better off than a person on the invalids benefit when it comes to scoring at least a 3 because of the level of main benefit. Please do not draw conclusions from what I have said about the minimum of two 3s even though this applies to me.

          Please also note that I state that a massive housing programme is required and/or that the accommodation supplement needs to be topped up so that no one pays more than 25% of their income in rent.

          The new HNZ rental criteria is brutal and the community housing will also shrink the stock. Their needs to be an independent advocate available for current HNZ tenants and a appeal process other than the tenancy tribunal. A friend of mine is faced with being turfed out of a HNZ home even though market rental is paid for the home they live in. HNZ are hypocrits as they also must look at a person requiring housing in 60 days.

          The government is heartless when it comes to housing the most vulnerable. The government cannot even address rheumatic fever in this country (a third world disease) brought on by over crowding and no doubt the lack of a nutrious diet.

          Maybe all the people on NZ super not making the HNZ criteria need to be wheeled up to parliament as the numbers will grow by the week as single not sharing NZ super main benefit rate is $339.92 and single NZ super sharing is $313.00 (cents not included). Heatley is a non visionary as far as I am concerned because it is homes that people need and not the competitive divisive situation which he has thrust apon the most vulnerable.

          • Vicky32

            The new HNZ rental criteria is brutal and the community housing will also shrink the stock. Their needs to be an independent advocate available for current HNZ tenants and a appeal process other than the tenancy tribunal. A friend of mine is faced with being turfed out of a HNZ home even though market rental is paid for the home they live in. HNZ are hypocrits as they also must look at a person requiring housing in 60 days.
            Maybe all the people on NZ super not making the HNZ criteria need to be wheeled up to parliament as the numbers will grow by the week as single not sharing NZ super main benefit rate is $339.92 and single NZ super sharing is $313.00 (cents not included). Heatley is a non visionary as far as I am concerned because it is homes that people need and not the competitive divisive situation which he has thrust apon the most vulnerable.

            Agreed! Heatley is an idiot…

  6. AAMC 6

    Just thought I should point out……

    AFKTT got his timing pretty much bang.

    • Campbell Larsen 6.1

      He doesn’t seem to like any political party though, which isn’t very helpful to those who still hope that voting will make a difference, or simply believe that we must try to engage with the political system even as we work on other solutions such as permaculture and sustainable communities.
      Perhaps AFKTT should start his own party, or maybe he has already – I certainly feel that there would be a place for his views on our political spectrum.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1

        The only political party worth voting for, IMO, is the Greens and even they don’t seem to grok the necessary paradigm shift.

    • Lanthanide 6.2

      He said there was going to be financial meltdown in October.

      1. It isn’t October yet.
      2. Nothing has actually melted down yet, it just “fear”, mostly around Greece.

  7. BWS 7

    What an astonishing personal attack on Bryce Edwards from Trevor Mallard this morning.

    • The Voice of Reason 7.1

      Where is the astonishing personal attack? Mallard’s post seemed pretty reasonable to me and it comes as a hell of a surprise that it turns out that Edwards is on David Farrar’s payroll. No wonder Edwards is constantly sniping at Labour, eh.

    • You are a repeater for the slithery one.  This was an amused comment.  If you want to see real personal attacks go over to the sewer.

      • higherstandard 7.2.1

        “If you want to see real personal attacks go over to the sewer.”

        What like this sewer ?

        Start from this comment and work down Mickeymouse

        Open mike 19/09/2011

        “I wish the mad butcher would hurry up and die.
        Fuck Close Up for giving this National party cheerleader a free slot in primetime.”

        • felix

          That comment sparked a whole day of outrage and argument here.

          At the Sewer it would be unremarkable among dozens of similar comments posted every day.

        • Campbell Larsen

          HS you, and the supposedly ‘outraged’ others have consistently chosen to ignore the point I was raising – the inappropriateness of of the butchers electioneering on taxpayer funded tv ‘news’ Now he is joined by Richardhead of the year contender Matthew Ridge who I hope drowns in his carwash for breaching election rules – LOL –
          There – now you have something new to be ‘outraged’ about.
          Notice: to all celebraties planning to use their ‘fame’ in an underhand manner to promote the corruption that is the National government – you will not be spared my disdain.

        • Enough is Enough

          the sewer, where someone once made this comment to someone who had a different opinion to him:

          “Why don’t you just find a weapon and kill yourself. It will markedly improve the intellect of those of us who remain.”

          Blogosphere is the sewer. Stop pretending that one side is cleaner than the other.

          Key is weak

          • lprent

            Personally I am a great believer in the value of the Darwin awards where people remove themselves from the gene pool. I am usually not hesitant in suggesting it as a career enhancing objective to worthy recipients when I comment.

            Of course the countervailing viewpoint is that eventually people like jcw (whom the comment was made in response to) will eventually examine the actual process of civil court rather than simply relying on theoretical codswallop. Unfortunately I suspect from their writing that they gather their opinions by examining their navel from the inside (by shoving their head up their arse) and will do almost anything to avoid examining the real world. My comment was not about their opinion. My comment was about their experience and their apparent inability to understand that reality and theory are frequently different.

            You have a similar problem because you are comparing a robust comment with an actual argument attached compared to the outright denigration without any argument that characterizes the sewer. In other words you don’t see actual discussion at the sewer from what I have seen. When an opposing opinion is voiced there, the usual response is to have a straight personal attacks without bothering to argue about the topic – basically what you see is schoolyard bullying. That is the reason that people outside the in-group there from the left tend not to waste time there.

            Here you tend to get responses that are argument served with sarcasm. There are a few over the top comments without arguments. But as a moderator I tend to only get irritated when there is a pattern of behavior that I have to exert effort to correct.

            And my suggestion is that you try a similar solution to that suggested for jcw. It appears to me that you lack the observational skills required to learn. Of course I could be wrong?

        • Ianupnorth

          To quote Vic Reeves

          You just wouldn’t let it lie

    • Anne 7.3

      BWS has the pip because he/she/it has been banned from Red Alert until he/she/it produces a real email address.

    • Deadly_NZ 7.4

      AAAwww whats wrong you spinning and spitting tacks because you got the arse from Red Alert??? Give them a real E-Mail address and they will let you in, if only just to laugh at your pathetic attempts to make mountains out of molehills.

  8. Sanctuary 8

    Peter Verschaffelt is the PR man for the Mana Party???? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    What a bunch of idiots Mana are.

    If that turn-coat son of a bit*h Verschaffelt was involved with the Jesus Party I would consider the Devil before not bothering to vote at all.

  9. Free Ride for Farmers

    The NZ Herald ran an article about Fonterra today that was particularly interesting. In conjunction with other recent media releases, it showed the dairy industry is getting a free ride at the taxpayer and environments expense…

  10. When the Government can pull out all stops to ensure the success of a waterfront party you would think that they could do the same to save our most significant and internationally recognized wetland. $11.5 million is being spent to resuscitate the already dead Lake Ellesmere, why can’t they concentrate on the Waituna Lagoon while it is still living, though only just.

    • Bored 10.1

      Dave, could not agree more. The whole thing is criminal and tragic. The mental dislocation between our personal desires and our environment is exactly as you highlight, we head for a Darwin Award as a species.

  11. prism 11

    New owners of the Phoenix football team to be announced shortly!!
    A few more tears at the Pike River hearings, the police and now Peter Whittel. And we have no doubt cried at some of the crap we have been hearing – report assessed unsatisfactory because of a spelling mistake etc. It seems like the police want to operate like USA drone operators – sitting behind a desk in Wellington or away from the scene of the tragedy directing the action or non-action whichever seems the safest to the distant generals directing the war.

    • Bored 11.1

      I was getting very pissed off with people praising Sereipesos for spending on the Phoenix, saving their commercial bacon, being the dude whilst all the while the tax he owed was not paid. Then I thought perhaps I should say fuck it to my fellow taxpayer, you losers pay taxes whilst I buy a soccer team and live the dream. Terry, with revelatory poser, me too me too…..

  12. Lanthanide 12

    For some reason it wouldn’t let me delete those two test posts above. I was trying to test Strikethrough, which doesn’t seem to work.

    Anyway, looks like Key is spilling the beans on his private talk with Obama?

    ”But if you think about the global financial crisis that has taken place, that has been a very significant event and remains a very significant event in Europe and the United States. Just to give you a bit of perspective of what that means in the US – their numbers are just dire. Their unemployment rate is 9.2 per cent officially but even the president told me their unofficial unemployment rate is about 14 or 15 per cent. 

    [lprent: Removed. I’ll have a look at the trasher. Strikethrough is meant to be useable – could be an wordpress update has broken my patch. ]

    • Ianupnorth 12.1

      I’ve had the same issue and gave up on it.

    • freedom 12.2

      “Their unemployment rate is 9.2 per cent officially but even the president told me their unofficial unemployment rate is about 14 or 15 per cent.”

      If you add those two figures together
      you probably have the actual number of people without work in the USA

  13. PJ 13

    Kiwis First! (except if your industry is the arts, film or tv)

    “Immigration changes support screen and entertainment industries” (bahahahahaha)

    Press Release by New Zealand Government at 2:50 pm, 22 Sep 2011

    Changes announced today to visa processes for screen, entertainment and music industry workers will support the sector’s growth, says Immigration Minister Jonathan Coleman.

    The changes provide a simpler, more streamlined system for the entry of temporary entertainment industry workers into New Zealand.

    ”The existing policy is out-dated. It’s been in place for 20 years and the entertainment industry has grown hugely over that time,” says Dr Coleman.

    Today’s changes mean workers here for 14 days or less, or workers on an international co-production, face a greatly simplified process. For longer periods of employment, such as during the making of feature films, the policy places more trust in employers who have proven their bona fides and have a track record of bringing in workers for legitimate purposes.

    ”The screen industry employs around 6,700 people and is worth over $2.8 billion dollars a year, with great potential for further growth. To realise that growth, we need immigration policies that ensure key workers can get here with minimal fuss so that New Zealand remains an attractive destination for productions,” says Dr Coleman.

    Under current rules for screen, entertainment and music workers, all work visa applications are referred to the industry guilds and unions under a ‘silent approval’ process. This means that the guilds or unions have the right to object to an application.

    ”In some cases, issues with existing processes were putting offshore investment in the New Zealand screen industry at risk,” says Dr Coleman.

    ”Another feature of the changes is that performers here for significant music, arts or cultural festivals can come into the country on a visitor visa.

    ”In the past two and a half years there have been 14 applications disputed by unions or guilds out of 4800 applications for screen industry work, and the Government has ultimately granted visas in all those cases.

    ”In short, we are removing a redundant, bureaucratic process which only served to make New Zealand a less attractive place for the screen and entertainment industry to do business.”

    The new policy will be operational from March 2012.

  14. Treetop 14

    About two months ago I posted saying that work and income did not consider home contents as being a cost which they included in an application for a food grant. When you go to HNZ for housing assistance a green form called “Finding a private rental property” and a form called the Department of Building and Housing is given to you. The Department of Building and Housing form states “Before you move in: Purchase contents insurance that includes tenant liability.”

    Interesting when it comes to one government department saying that contents insurance is essential and another government department saing the cost is not essential. I expect there are repercussions for people in Christchurch when it comes to contents and liability insurance.

    • Vicky32 14.1

      Purchase contents insurance that includes tenant liability.”

      I have had to let mine lapse for the time being…

      • Treetop 14.1.1

        Sorry to hear this. I switched to FMG from State and saved a lot.

        When it comes to HNZ assessment say food is at least $10 a day and $10 extra for other.

        Had the government brought the HNZ policy in a year ago it would cost them more votes. Sneaky and dishonest.

  15. Tigger 15

    SPADA used to make a mint from this process…wonder what deal their CE Borland (good friends with Arts Minister Finlayson) did to ensure they wouldn’t be hit in the pocket…

    • Tigger 15.1

      By the way, this is punishment for Actor’s Equity and the Hobbit mess. Directors have also come out against this move.

  16. Power Corrupts

    The latest edition of the Listener has an article entitled Cold Comfort, which is all about New Zealand’s high electricity prices and how they contribute to ill health. It makes for sober reading, especially when considering that the continuing trend of high electricity prices and low incomes is going to make things a lot worse…

  17. tc 17

    Is it any wonder with profit taking built in at all 4 deconstructed layers of the old NZEC and local power boards, with NZEC and local power boards at least that was only 2 levels and the NZEC could take a holistic view of generation and distribution up to where local distribution boards took over.

    If ever there was an industry screaming to be nationalized it’s this essential service and give business certainty over supply.

  18. millsy 18

    The god-bothers have been let out of their cave yet again and are bursting blood vessels with the thought of dirty grubby SEX being taught in our schools.

    The debate over sex education has pretty much proved that there are still a lot of Victorian-era prudes who think sex is unclean and disgusting and should only be had to make babies. Not something exciting and enjoyable that can take place in so many different forms.

    And yes, it is OK as long as its consensual, those who take part are over 16, and a condom is used.

  19. Vicky32 19

    The god-bothers have been let out of their cave yet again and are bursting blood vessels with the thought of dirty grubby SEX being taught in our schools.

    All I will say (all I dare say) is that if you’re referring to recent stories in the Herald, you’ve very badly missed the point! I have nothing against sex ed if it’s about teaching kids what they need to know to be safe. But from what I have read, what the “god-botherers” (us? 🙂 ) are against, is teaching 6 year olds the mechanics. They don’t need to know – the squick factor will be enough at that age anyway.
    So, Millsy, get a grip – or rather loosen your grip! You’re throttling something…

    • millsy 19.1

      I’m not advocating teaching sex to to 6 year olds, Vicky32, but I am feeling rather uneasy at the neo-Victorian prudish backlash being conducted right now, who, as I said before want to drill it into our kids heads that sex is dirty and grubby (but not when its being paid for by a middle aged white businessman of course).

      The same people want abortion and homosexuality recriminalised and divorce laws tightened. Effectively rolling back the social freedoms that people fought very hard to win against an older generation riddled with double standards – the generation of the 40’s, and 50’s were at it like rabbits.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      And the NZH puts enough spin and beat up into the article to make it look like an issue when it isn’t. These days I wouldn’t read the NZH if you paid me.

  20. Vicky32 20

    I’m not advocating teaching sex to to 6 year olds, Vicky32, but I am feeling rather uneasy at the neo-Victorian prudish backlash being conducted right now, who, as I said before want to drill it into our kids heads that sex is dirty and grubby (but not when its being paid for by a middle aged white businessman of course).

    No, not that I have read! (I am going by the stories in the Herald that I read the other day.) Apparently there’s been some spewing on talkback, but I avoid talkback.

    Effectively rolling back the social freedoms that people fought very hard to win against an older generation riddled with double standards – the generation of the 40′s, and 50′s were at it like rabbits.

    That people in the 40s and 50s were at it like wabbits is a myth… That was my parents’ generation, and no, they weren’t – at least not anywhere near what people do now! Your “social freedoms” are simply licence.


  21. millsy 21

    What’s the bloody big deal about young people having sex? Christ, as long as they are enjoying it who cares?

    Social freedoms being a licence? WTF? I dont know about you, but I really dont think that we should be putting regulations on people having sex, just because a bunch of party poopers who read some 2000 year old translation (from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to Middle English to English) of some cruddy old scrolls written by some scribe in the scorching desert dont like people enjoying intamite relations with each other.

    BTW, I used to be an anti sex prude. Then I started getting some and changed my position 100%.

    • Vicky32 21.1

      What’s the bloody big deal about young people having sex? Christ, as long as they are enjoying it who cares?

      You’re having a laugh, right? I’ll ignore your offensive language, simply because you said it in hopes of upsetting me… and simply point out some of the consequences… Teen pregnancy, STDs, broken hearts, sterility caused by abortion or the previously mentioned STDs – sterility which then leads to $$$$$ invested in (usually futile) IVF, and oh, did I mention the broken hearts? I suspect that you’re an old man (45-59), as older men often love the thought of teens banging like bunnies, and spend all their time obsessing about the “right” to f*** like rattlesnakes.  Young men and women just get on with it – but crucially, they are looking for love and commitment – it takes the middle-aged and cynical to want sex without commitment for its own sake!
      I know about all of these consequences – I have witnessed them in my own life and the lives of family members. 
      This is my last word on the subject – and you can blaspheme and get as offensive as you like, I am not getting sucked in – or it won’t be long before I get called “f***ing retard”, “notjob” and all the rest all over again – and it’s always about sex! Men do get very het up and abusive about sex, and I can never understand why.

      • McFlock 21.1.1

        Men do get very het up and abusive about sex, and I can never understand why.

        Possibly because you assume that people didn’t shag in the 40s and 50s just because nobody in your social group did, so therefore anyone with a different perspective is just acting out of depraved wishful thinking. That gets really irritating really quickly.

        • Vicky32

          Possibly because you assume that people didn’t shag in the 40s and 50s just because nobody in your social group did, so therefore anyone with a different perspective is just acting out of depraved wishful thinking. That gets really irritating really quickly.

          I never said people didn’t shag in the 40s and 50s, I know they did – I said that what people did then wasn’t 1/10th as much shagging as people, even teens, do now! It’s not nothing to do with my social group – which BTW was not middle or upper class… but a teensy bit of logic will tell you that people back then couldn’t  shag their brains out with 10-20 ‘partners’ a year back then. There was no reliable method of contraception, and even if there had been, everyone knew everyone else’s business…
          Anyone who thinks I am puritanical has a very strange definition of the word! It just seriously makes me very off-piste to see kids encouraged by older people to exploit themselves and each other.

          • millsy

            I dont encourage kids to have sex. I just think that we need to cut them a little bit of slack and stop trying to convince them that sex is dirty and grubby, that’s all.

          • McFlock

            If your assertion about sexual practices over the decades is based on something other than anecdotal assumption, feel free to share.

          • KJT

            Not really correct Vicky. I remember reading research that said. The rate of sexual activity by young people, and the rate of teenage pregnancies, was higher in the 40’s than now.

            It is us who were teenagers in the 60’s and 70’s who should really be blushing. We were like rabbits compared with today’s youth. And had higher teen pregnancy rates. Despite adults not being allowed to tell us, sex even existed, until we were 16. Probably something to do with ideas like “Coke is a contraceptive”.

            I am looking for the references for you now, but no longer at Uni so no longer have free access to journals. I know some of the evidence quoted was from the NZ longitudal study.

            Kids should be told that sex is best left to when they are with someone that they want to stay friends with for life, but they also need to learn how to protect themselves. And the emotional and physical pro-s and con’s.
            We all make mistakes. I cringe, when I remember some of mine as a teenager.

            As for sex education do you want it left to parents who believe that their 13 year old daughters should be available to the guru of their nutty religion.
            Or contraceptive education to people who believe their daughters should not use it because it prevents gods punishment, of pregnancy for sexually active women.

            People who were taught abstinence only have higher teen pregnancy rates, than those who have quality, age appropriate sex education.

            Talking of age appropriate. I consented to my, then, 6 year old son going to religious education classes. I thought they would be pretty harmless. Only to find they were being taught about classical period methods of execution. He had night terrors about nails through his hands.
            Religion has a lot to answer for!

            • Vicky32

              It is us who were teenagers in the 60′s and 70′s who should really be blushing. We were like rabbits compared with today’s youth. And had higher teen pregnancy rates. Despite adults not being allowed to tell us, sex even existed, until we were 16.

              I have to say ‘speak for yourself!’ 😀 I was a teenager in the 60s/70s, and had parents who very realistic, telling us (3 girls and a boy) all about sex right from the start. Other girls I know might have gone at it like rabbits (I can’t speak for any boys) but there were few of these girls. My nerd peer group was much more interested in academic pursuits! I am not at all aware of adults not being allowed to tell is about sex – I remember sex ed at school, when I was in the 4th form (circa 13 years old)

              Kids should be told that sex is best left to when they are with someone that they want to stay friends with for life, but they also need to learn how to protect themselves.

              Of course, I agree.

              People who were taught abstinence only have higher teen pregnancy rates, than those who have quality, age appropriate sex education.

              So people say, but I have yet to see any objective proof – all the ‘studies’ I have seen have have been pubbed by such ‘neutral, unbiased’ groups as Planned Parenthood USA.

              Talking of age appropriate. I consented to my, then, 6 year old son going to religious education classes. I thought they would be pretty harmless. Only to find they were being taught about classical period methods of execution. He had night terrors about nails through his hands.
              Religion has a lot to answer for!

              Irrelevant bigotry, and most unlikely! What RE are you talking about? There’s no such thing in state schools, and in a church school, I can assure you, RE would actually be much more nuanced – therefore, I beg leave to doubt you…

              • McFlock

                Stats NZ infoshare has tables for live births by maternal age for every calendar year since1962 (sadly not the 40s and 50s, or not that I’ve found). In raw numbers, <15 and 15-19 y.o. mother age groups has been constant if not falling. The rates, if you put them against the census population tables, would be decreasing significantly.
                The numbers across the different agegroups are quite interesting, from a general level – e.g. the 40-44 agegroup had a dramatic decline in the 70s and 80s (probably down to the pill), and is now quite high again (as women delay having children).

      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.2

        A rather interesting study came out a while back. It’s findings were that those people who were more liberal about sex had better and longer lasting relationships that those who were puritanical.

  22. millsy 22

    I’m 31, Vicky, and I dont “love the thought of teens banging like bunnies, and spend all their time obsessing about the “right” to f*** like rattlesnakes.”. I just think that sex is awesome, and that people should be encouraged to partake in it, without being made to feel guilty and dirty about enjoying it, and that, is what is currently happening in the Herald. People want a society where people, especially women are made to feel dirty and ashamed for enjoying sex. Plain and simple.

    People go on about social engineering, but the god-botherers are the biggest social engineers out there.

  23. logie97 23

    The Queens’ granddaughter and the non-story in the headlines.

    I suppose the whole thing could be put to rest if the blond at the centre of the story, who just happened to be an old friend, was to be seen socialising with them both in the next few days …

    • millsy 23.1

      So over that. So what if a rugby player buried his head in a women’s chest?

      This reminds of me of the frenzy over Tiger Woods because he decided to partake in the thousands of offers he got from women, which is par for the course for pro-golfers (no pun intended). Thanks to their hate, one of the greatest golfers in history has had his career destoryed.

      • Treetop 23.1.1

        Woods had a pattern of humiliating himself and when his wife found out about his sexual indiscretions this had consequences for her marriage. No point being married to someone who you cannot trust and who has the need to seek sexual pleasure else where or who cannot abstain when apart from you.

  24. Treetop 24

    When it comes to sex ed class at school the class should be taped and then the parents would have a reference of what their child is being taught. I tend to ask myself what are children being sexually exposed to and what do they need to know to stay safe and who can help them when they need help?

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    1 week ago
  • Yes, the SIS is subject to the Public Records Act
    I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • An evidence-based discussion of the Canadian fluoride/IQ study
    Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Australia in denial
    Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Philippines activist speaking on the Duterte tyranny
    Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Disgust
    I have no special insights to offer on the Labour sexual assault coverup. All I have is disgust. Disgust that an organisation could fail its people so badly. Disgust that they punished the victims rather than the perpetrator. Disgust that its party hacks are apparently blaming the victims for demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women calls out Greens’ censorship
    This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Member’s Day: End of Life Choice, part 3
    Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Flight to Los Angeles turned back after passengers decide they don’t want to go anymore
    An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Indigenous Futures: defuturing and futuring – an analytical framework for policy development?
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    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Cadbury rumoured to be releasing the Pineapple Trump
    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The coming resource war.
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    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    2 weeks ago

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