Open mike 26/04/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 26th, 2019 - 192 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

192 comments on “Open mike 26/04/2019 ”

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  1. patricia bremner 1
    26 April 2019 at 7:40 am

    Hooten….what a slippery snake he is. I have heard him almost screaming hate on the Kathryn Ryan programme, while this time he paints grudging admiration of Ardern it is however laced with deprecating comments on her intellect and 'lack of policy'

    Social policy doesn't count in his world. No doubt about his misogyny though, in his Granny Herald offering. HE almost says 'typical woman, only good at putting her arms round people' Sorry folks I can't bring up the link, not really computer literate.

    • Sacha 1.1
      26 April 2019 at 7:54 am

      Yes, it's sneaky and we need to be prepared for more of the same long-game tactics from the righties. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12225293

      • bwaghorn 1.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 8:21 am

        Im no fan of hootons but its hard to argue with the fact Ardern has put winning ahead of change.

        • Sacha 1.1.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 8:30 am

          It is being painted that way very successfully. Let's see their climate policy first.

          • Sanctuary 1.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 8:43 am

            The right blinked for barely a fortnight before going back to it's tactic of using misogyny as it's primary weapon to attack the government.

            The loathing of aging white men in the media on the right wing for Jacinda Ardern is visceral, but hopefully their inbuilt arrogance means they won't see that she is practically untouchable on that front until well after the net two elections.

        • Bearded Git 1.1.1.2
          26 April 2019 at 9:20 am

          CGT is just one issue. There are other tax levers that can lead to more equality.

          Extending the "bright line test" from 5 to 8 years for instance.

          • The Chairman 1.1.1.2.1
            26 April 2019 at 1:12 pm

            Jacinda has stated that the "bright line test" will remain at the current five years setting.

            • lprent 1.1.1.2.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 1:22 pm

              However the new IRD computer system is nearly online. From memory it is due for full completion about mid-2021. But is close to functionally complete now.

              I don't think that anyone outside of the government and the computing communities are quite aware of just how much the computing capacity of the tax system has been constrained by having a essentially obsolete system for more than 20 years has been.

              That is going to make it way harder for cheats and border-line avoiders to not pay tax. The full enforcement of the bright-line test would be high on my list of tasks for doing routine scans and investigations on. Along with the ownership shares in companies.

              • The Chairman …
                26 April 2019 at 1:43 pm

                Indeed, lprent. Technological advancement will help the state to clampdown. Though, I'm sure creative accounting innovation will continue to give them a run for their money.

                • lprent …
                  26 April 2019 at 2:17 pm

                  It has been interesting watching the advance of professionalism in the accounting and director communities over the last three decades. Essentially the IRD and SFO don’t like creative accounting and they tend to be quite assiduous in trying to make sure that it doesn’t pay – regardless how long they have to take people to court if they think that an example needs to be made.

                  In a lot of ways you’ll find that accountants aren’t that willing to be creative when they think that the IRD may argue the point. That is as much because getting into disfavour with the IRD seems to provoke some very detailed look at the other clients of external accountants and auditors who are suspect.

                  The only real exception to that appear to be overseas companies doing transfer costs. However I’m expecting that will change internationally within the decade. There is a pretty strong inter-government movement against them these days and it has been growing for the last decade.

                  • The Chairman …
                    26 April 2019 at 2:54 pm

                    Yes, there is a growing inter-government movement to clampdown on the tax minimisation methods of companies trading internationally. And anything fruitful produced will be helpful for Labour at this current time.

                    Headhunting top IRD staff to help companies circumvent tax obligations is not unheard of. Who best to get help around the rules than those that helped create them.

                    • The Chairman …
                      26 April 2019 at 3:36 pm

                      There has been a bit of talk on that, but little sign of any outcome to date. Thus, it seems unlikely anything fruitful will come of it.

                      Labour has a pragmatic leader and pragmatic leaders don’t tend to fight for what they believe in – they tend to pragmatically give up.

                    • lprent …
                      26 April 2019 at 4:08 pm

                      TC:

                      Not really. What they do look at the multiplicity of objectives that they always have and prioritize what they will expend effort on.

                      The problem with a capital gains tax is that with the exclusion of "family home" from it, then a capital gains tax in NZ had several problems politically.

                      It wasn't ever going to be that effective in evening out the wealth issues – there was still going to be an over abundance of capital concentrated in housing because it was effectively tax-free. A CGT immediately dropped from being the most effective means of reducing the capital investment distortion to being a minor means.

                      Conversely as showed up in the commission report, a CGT was going to impact on the saving done by Kiwisaver on austrailasian shared – which currently is the other major method of personal saving – especially for those without their own home. That would have caused capital to move to overseas shares more and inhibited kiwisaver. Neither being a useful outcome.

                      So other measures are more likely to get the desired effect. It doesn't mean that the outcomes desired are any less important.

                    • The Chairman …
                      26 April 2019 at 4:42 pm

                      @lprent

                      Even without the family home included, revenue projections were vast. Thus, the new tax revenue produced would have provided funding to have made an effective difference.

                      As for the distortion in investment, I agree it would have had minimal effect. Even the working group highlighted this. Fairness was the main aim.

                      It's negative impact on Kiwisaver could have been worked through.

                      Yes, they may still produce a viable alternative, but till then, there is still voter uncertainty and another void where policy should be.

                      And until they actually produce some new tax policy, we don't know how effective and viable that will be.

        • Craig H 1.1.1.3
          26 April 2019 at 10:40 am

          Hard to make change while losing.

          • greywarshark 1.1.1.3.1
            26 April 2019 at 1:35 pm

            Is that a note to self Craig H?

            • Craig H 1.1.1.3.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 4:09 pm

              My comment was in response to

              Im no fan of hootons but its hard to argue with the fact Ardern has put winning ahead of change.

              My thoughts are that if the options are to abandon CGT and win, or implement CGT and lose, and then have CGT repealed (which is a very real possibility – opinion polling suggests Labour lost a lot of votes at the 2017 election very late in the piece from tax scaremongering), then abandoning CGT is a better option because you can't do anything in Opposition.

        • mac1 1.1.1.4
          26 April 2019 at 12:25 pm

          Fact or opinion. beaghorn? The fact is that she has forgone CGT while she is leader. The opinion is about why she did it, or its possible effects, or indeed whether it is the ony way to either win or achieve change.

          Craig H has a good point below. Whilst she is winning she has the power to make change. National knew that. That's why they're still spitting the dummy over the last MMP election result. They are not in power. They cannot make changes, nor can they oppose it successfully.

          I'd say wait for a budget or two to find about tax changes. CGT has been ruled out by Ardern but that's one avenue only.

          As a question of philosophy, is a tightening of the 'bright line test' with either reducung the time period or increasing enforcement introducing a CGT?

          • The Chairman 1.1.1.4.1
            26 April 2019 at 1:28 pm

            I'd say wait for a budget or two to find about tax changes. CGT has been ruled out by Ardern but that's one avenue only.

            Labour should have been better prepared and been ready with an alternative when they dumped the CGT. Leaving voids for National to fill and creating further uncertainty seem to be their thing. And it doesn't do them any favours.

            • Kat 1.1.1.4.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 2:12 pm

              "And it doesn't do them any favours………"

              Tell that to the pollsters………..

              • The Chairman …
                26 April 2019 at 2:31 pm

                Have yet to see a poll that has taken into account the latest debacle.

                However, abandoning the CGT and the accompanying tax cuts (largely favoured by voters) has disappointed many and stirred a lot of outrage online. So the result of the next round of polls will be interesting to see.

                If voters start to turn on Jacinda, Labour will be in big trouble. She's what got them over the line and they still lack depth when it comes to replacing her. Delivery (or failure of improvement) is her Achilles heel.

                And as for previous polls, ponder this: who can certainly say that past voids and uncertainty Labour has created hasn't cost them more support in those polls?

            • mac1 1.1.1.4.1.2
              26 April 2019 at 3:37 pm

              There will be alternatives. CGT has been sidelined. The tax working group has reported. There was an anti-CGT campaign. Coalition partners had their say. The Budget comes out on 30 May.Those are all facts. There is no void, just the usual waiting period till the annual budget. Taking a loaf off the dinner table does not mean there will be no meal. The family can wait to find out what is on the menu, but there will be carbohydrates in a balanced and healthy meal. For all.

              • lprent …
                26 April 2019 at 3:47 pm

                Yeah, the underlying problems of economic distortion by concentrating wealth in speculation and rentiers will start to being dealt with one way or another. It is simply unsustainable to go on like this.

              • The Chairman …
                26 April 2019 at 3:57 pm

                There was an anti-CGT campaign

                Yes, and it got given far more legs because Labour created a void by not sufficiently challenging it.

                The Budget is over a month away, thus there is another void and further uncertainty in the making. And National are already making good use of it. Attacking Labour on tax before they can even get their next tax policy sorted let alone announced.

                • lprent …
                  26 April 2019 at 4:31 pm

                  That is what oppositions do. They can pretty much make their own spin pre-budget.

                  Government, especially when it comes to budgets, have to be more responsible. That stops or diminishes speculative game playing by people looking at taking short positions.

                  • The Chairman …
                    26 April 2019 at 4:56 pm

                    That is of course what opposition parties do, but by creating policy voids and uncertainty, Labour make it far too easy for them.

                    And we see this time and time again. They just copped flack for doing this awaiting the CGT announcement and now they've just gone and done it again, leaving a void until the Budget.

                    I’ve pull them up on this years ago and they are still at it, go figure. Coms aren't really there strong point and in politics coms is vital.

                  • The Chairman …
                    26 April 2019 at 9:16 pm

                    @lprent

                    Additionally, I agree being in Government puts them in a more responsible position, but an astute Government would have foreseen the outrage and a opposition looking to fill the void and stir up further uncertainty. Hence, would have formulated and simultaneously announced a viable alternative to mitigate the fallout.

                    Providing the opportunity to take control of the narrative, giving voters certainty while coming off looking like a Government in control with a plan and sense of direction.

                    Instead, they dropped the CGT and left voters waiting while they formulate an alternative.

                    Jacinda did a lot of damage taking it completely off the table under her watch.

                    Therefore, it’s unbelievable they would drop a policy bomb like this and not have a B plan (to immediately help soak up the damage) in waiting.

                  • mikesh …
                    27 April 2019 at 8:23 am

                    Introducing a GGT may well cause a sort of "Gresham's law" effect since, once it is in place, it may well be impossible to change to something better.

              • New view …
                26 April 2019 at 4:24 pm

                You make it sound like she had some master plan. You say the COL partners had their say. BS. She had the power to call Winston’s bluff and the general public was resigned to some form of CGT and any political damage would most likely have been short lived. She had no stomach for a confrontation with the business sector or public opinion. And it wasn’t a bright move because she has pissed off a lot of her own people so don’t down play the CGT debacle and paint it up as some sort of clever political move because it’s not.

                [lprent: Please be careful of the attribute controls. Don’t just yell by bolding up your comments.

                It tends to get unwelcome moderator attention. I have removed it for you – this time. ]

                • Craig H …
                  26 April 2019 at 5:42 pm

                  As a Labour Party member, my primary annoyance is that the TWG was meant to find something other than CGT, and failed in that regard.

                • McFlock …
                  26 April 2019 at 6:04 pm

                  The thing about calling someone's bluff is that they might not be bluffing. NZ1 has ditched a coalition mid-term before now.

                  • Sacha …
                    26 April 2019 at 6:31 pm

                    Didn't Shipley fire him?

                    • McFlock …
                      26 April 2019 at 6:36 pm

                      After he told her where she could put her plans for the airport.

                      Definitely one of those "mutual decision" moments, unlike when she fired Bolger lol

                  • New view …
                    26 April 2019 at 7:36 pm

                    It would have gone down to a vote between the coalition partners. If Labour was voted down by NZF they could have told the media and then genuinely blamed Winston. There was no sign of that. The result, it makes Labour Winston’s puppet and has shown they have no spine of their own.

                    • McFlock …
                      27 April 2019 at 12:26 am

                      Well, I guess you're another one who needs to learn the difference between "partner" and "toady".

                      If they'd gone the way you suggest, folks currently saying Winston is calling all the shots would instead be saying that there were clear and fractious divisions within an unstable coalition.

                      Grownups know the value of letting shit go from time to time in a relationship, professional or personal.

                • mac1 …
                  26 April 2019 at 7:02 pm

                  No, not a master plan as in a "cunning plan" but a clear set of goals and priorities that can be achieved in more ways than one. Coalition means you don't get what you want always. MMP has in this way produced a more honest system of dealing than FPTP when the Labour Party was hijacked by a coterie of neo-liberals who would not have been in the Labour Party under a full mature MMP environment. National is still an uneasy coalition within itself and little chunks of it want to keep hiving off -from parts of NZF, to the Conservatives, ACT, the Blue Greens, Christian parties, Then there's the urban liberal, country consrvative divide which is festering away underneath as well as Bridges knows. It's too glib and facile to see coalition politics under MMP in such terms as bluff and blame.

                  • BM …
                    26 April 2019 at 7:56 pm

                    I could easily see a rural party appearing in the near future. That's where a true conservative party will come from.

                    MMP doesn't really work that well in NZ because we're still basically got a two-party system.

                    What we really need is 4 parties with around 25% of the vote each, that way we end up with a good cross section of the population getting represented.

                    At the moment it's one large party with a couple of pissy little parties that end up forming the government and we end up handing far too much power to small parties which is causing so much dissatisfaction.

                    • KJT …
                      27 April 2019 at 6:21 am

                      Or we could grow up, and have referenda on policy, like the Swiss.

                      The real problem is we put way too much power and control in the hands of so few people

                    • Skunk Weed …
                      27 April 2019 at 7:09 am

                      BM NZF is the New National Party for the Regions, progressive, intelligent and pro business & exports, there is your answer IMHO

                    • KJT …
                      27 April 2019 at 8:38 am

                      NZF Progressive….Joke.

      • patricia bremner 1.1.2
        26 April 2019 at 10:04 am

        Thanks Sacha.

  2. ScottGN 2
    26 April 2019 at 7:43 am

    A read for Mike Lee and all the rest of the light rail naysayers in Auckland.

    Construction chaos drove everyone crazy, was almost 5 years late and cost way more than originally forecast. So despite being a case study in how NOT to build public transport infrastructure Edinburgh’s light rail line from the airport (yep the airport!) to the city centre is working out so well they’re planning to extend it through to Leith and Newhaven.

    https://www.citymetric.com/transport/edinburgh-extending-its-widely-loathed-tram-network-4559

    • patricia bremner 2.1
      26 April 2019 at 10:29 am

      The light rail in Surfers Gold Coast is very successful, and talk of extending it to Burliegh Heads from Broad Beach. In the Sunshine Coast they have extended the Metro to Redcliffe from Petrie. This is a huge success as well.

    • OnceWasTim 2.2
      26 April 2019 at 1:32 pm

      I'm just hoping our city planners, lobbyists and their enterages (who I'm prepared to accept are "passionate about what they do, and who are all very 'visionary'" (going forward), are prepared to consider the medium to long term, rather than trying to resolve the immediate problem that's part of Auckland's gridlock and stupidity (which goes back as far as Mayor 'Robbie'.

      I'm also hoping that any and all involved in Wellington's public transport system are kept far, far away from anything in Auckers.

      I'm picking not however. But let's just agree that light rail is a start in what is needed.

      I'm hoping that whatever is implemented is not incompatible with existing infrastructure, and maybe a future need for some sort of integration. (Such as simple things like ensuring track gauge fits with what's already laid down – the possibility of what elsewhere is called 'tram trains'

      The Edinburgh example is obviously causing a few to slope off with their tails between their legs

      Short termism is a bad Kiwi affliction – it's possible it has something to do with out relatively short history as a Nayshun – alongside that eggslint post Incognito put up the other day on Kulchril Kringe

      • greywarshark 2.2.1
        26 April 2019 at 1:42 pm

        OwT

        I think we have to bite the bullet and go for 4-year terms as a bit of twiddling the political sharpness with time to implement promises before getting into the next election. Also let us have controls on electioneering in whatever way seems intelligent. And limits of three terms before stepping down for at least three terms – that gives the possibility of green pollies becoming statesmen and women and co-betweens, in later life.

        • OnceWasTim 2.2.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 1:57 pm

          Well yes to 4 year terms BUT not before we fix a few other things – such as the state of what our PS has become, the obfuscations and corruptions related to OIA requests, ensuring the primacy of tToW and BOR, a recognition of what an electorate comprised of citizens (and possible PRs is) means that isn't constructed primarily on the notion of their being economic units, rather than social beings……………and then possibly alongside an upper house with veto powers based on regions and in respect of demographic and social differences.

          • greywarshark 2.2.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 2:05 pm

            No no not the comfy chair up in an Upper House. With four year terms we would have a government in long enough which might concentrate on those other things you boringly persisted in stating just as I was trying to forget about them. How could you do it? There is no hope for us. Weeps and throws teddy bear at the wall.

            • OnceWasTim 2.2.1.1.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 2:36 pm

              i'd do without the upper house for sure if we could get a few of the other things fixed.

              Anyway – back to Mo Fat…..there goes one of the obstacles.

        • alwyn 2.2.1.2
          26 April 2019 at 2:33 pm

          There have been a couple of referendums on bringing in a 4 year term. Those, in 1967 and 1990 were both about 70% in favour of retaining the current 3 year term.Do you think the general opinion would really be any different today? I wouldn't really have thought there would be any change.

      • Sacha 2.2.2
        26 April 2019 at 6:57 pm

        I'm hoping that whatever is implemented is not incompatible with existing infrastructure, and maybe a future need for some sort of integration. (Such as simple things like ensuring track gauge fits with what's already laid down – the possibility of what elsewhere is called 'tram trains'

        You might find this post useful: https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2019/03/14/our-next-rail-network-should-be-different-from-our-current-one/

  3. Sanctuary 3
    26 April 2019 at 8:27 am

    Labour's abysmal discipline around messaging and bumbling approach to comms version #564328:

    Louisa Wall goes off on social media about the need for media restrictions then goes to ground and refuses to front Morning Report and Labour supplies no one else in her place, thus giving a free hit to Stephen Franks to indulge in his usual creepy misogyny dog whistles and pompous opining without contradiction.

    • Psycho Milt 3.1
      26 April 2019 at 8:57 am

      Wall doesn't seem to get the fact that she's a Labour MP, not an independent. Her "fucking TERFs" blurt was in the same category.

      • greywarshark 3.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 1:44 pm

        She is of a too fine a character to fully embrace the mud wrestling theme that is so essential for long-term success in our parliament.

    • greywarshark 3.2
      26 April 2019 at 8:58 am

      That's a pretty good summation of Stephen Franks.

    • Bearded Git 3.3
      26 April 2019 at 9:21 am

      Yes Stephen Franks is even nastier than Hooton; that takes some doing.

  4. Obbserver Tokoroa 4
    26 April 2019 at 8:51 am

    Hi Patricia Bremner
    Yes
    It is the Year of the national Jackals.

    The Trolls a dancing before their own sick mirrors now. One behind the other – like so many kiddies wanting their suck at slamming Jacinda.

    Their Chant is : Jacinda is Dumb. Jacinda is policy Free.

    You have to remember that a large number of the Trolls (who use the Standard as a kiddies playground ) are not mentally sound. Hooten being one of them. Screaming at the top of his empty head on air.

    It is a bit of a nuisance that the Standard – a fine traditional, long standing, successful Civil and Political Institution – has to give blog support to the mentally challenged that wander the streets of Auckland looking for shit to throw at our Prime Minister.

    Patricia – Troll grubs verbally assault Jacinda – because She is extraordinarily intelligent. Her Policy of releasing the decent people of New Zeland from poverty thrown at them by the likes of Brash, Key, English, Collins, Bennett, Smith, Joyce, Bridges (The Gang of the Wealthy) is a Very Sound Policy.

    You know it Patiricia. I know it. The public of New Zealand knows it too.

    The Major Corporations – such as sick Fonterra – Fletchers – and other tiresome low weights – are on the ropes.

    Just as Key and English abused the Youth of New Zealand loudly – National and their Trolls are now abusing a young gifted Politician who has given Her all to a Nation which has been Abused by a bunch of sodden Rat Bags. The Wealthy Fools.

    The Youth of Jacinda are sick of you Greedy tossers – National – Fonterra – Universities that no youth can afford. Greed dribbles from every hole in your minds and bodies. You wealthy Filth.

  5. esoteric pineapples 5
    26 April 2019 at 9:07 am

    HIgher petrol prices look likely as the United States tells every country in the world including China and India that they can't buy Iranian oil anymore. Iran supplies around 10 percent of the world's oil. We might also have a military confrontation to look forward too as one third of the world's oil that travels by sea goes through the narrow straight next to Iran, which it says it is going to block (I suspect it won't though).



    • patricia bremner 6.1
      26 April 2019 at 10:34 am

      Drones, what a great idea for marginal or difficult to reach terrain. No need for roads in if the aim is native regeneration or tree cover for carbon sequestering. I think a job like that would be useful skillful and using technology to assist in reaching a target quickly.

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 1:56 pm

        The holes still have to be made and the roots put in right. But a drone hovering alongside with the small trees in starter tubes ready to be placed then covered and firmed. It would make the job so much easier. It could hover between two men working a few metres apart. After they finished an area, another drone would drop groundcover seed and leaf mould to lie round the trees and help them get started.

        • WeTheBleeple 6.1.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 4:52 pm

          Use clay 'bullets' with fertiliser and seed in them.

          Also, to kill wilding pines: Use bullets designed to get under the bark and spread out with Armillaria fungus in them.

          Fly over with a chopper (or drones) and let rip.

          • McFlock 6.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 7:19 pm

            Funnily enough, paintball guns were invented to mark trees. Dunno about getting fungus under bark or seeds far enough into the ground, though – we're beginning to talk decent energy loads. Fungus is pretty hardy, but the seeds might be a bit fragile.

          • greywarshark 6.1.1.1.2
            26 April 2019 at 7:35 pm

            What's your opinion about wilding pines WtB. Some must have them all out. I think Robert is easy peasy – let sleeping pines lie. They could be allowed to grow after self seeding and then be cut for posts etc, early on before they spread seed far. When do they start seeding anyway?

  7. One Two 7
    26 April 2019 at 9:49 am

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2109855?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=2109848

    Research Misconduct Identified by the US Food and Drug Administration:
    Out of Sight, Out of Mind, Out of the Peer-Reviewed Literature

    For each of the 57 remaining trials, 1 or more FDA inspections of a trial site had uncovered evidence of significant departures from good clinical practice, such as under reporting of adverse events, violations of protocol, violations of recruitment guidelines, and various forms of scientific misconduct.

    * falsification or submission of false information,
    * 22 trials (39%); problems with adverse events reporting,
    * 14 trials (25%); protocol violations,
    * 42 trials (74%); inadequate or inaccurate record keeping,
    * 35 trials (61%); failure to protect the safety of patients and/or issues with oversight or informed consent,
    * 30 trials (53%); and violations not otherwise categorized,
    * 20 trials (35%). Only 3 of the 78 publications (4%) that resulted from trials in which the FDA found significant violations mentioned the objectionable conditions or practices found during the inspection.

    No corrections, retractions, expressions of concern, or other comments acknowledging the key issues identified by the inspection were subsequently published.

    • McFlock 7.1
      26 April 2019 at 6:31 pm

      lol yes, it's an issue, just not of the gravity your selective quoting suggests.

      They found 600 clinical trials with bad FDA inspections over fifteen years. There are 120,000 clinical trials cureently operating in the USA. While the reporting needs to be worked on, the real issue at the moment is to ensure that all trials publish results, rather than the current positive bias.

      Which still manages to save millions of people every year, by the way. As opposed to life 200 years ago.

      • One Two 7.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 7:36 pm

        So how big is the issue then…you that's right…you don't know…but keep attempting to minimize it in your own mind, as it makes no difference what you or I think…

        There is however a bounty of actual scientific evidence built up over many decades and growing…

        Manufacturers do not publish or share data…as you say… that is a problem…because it is the basis of the entire fabrication surrounding vaccine science, and would open manufacturers up to even greater scrutiny…actually it would be the end of the pharma industry…that ship is sinking quickly enough already on its own…it has already sunk…without sharing the data…

        Staying out of court is all that matters to the vaccine manufacturers…which is why Merck have stalled for the last 8 years seeking to keep details of the mumps component of MMR statistical fraud from seeing a courtroom…oh you didn't know about the two merck researchers and mumps stats lies…

        …manages to save millions of lives every year...good luck proving that…or even providing evidence that is not fabricated on the back of statistical lies and fluid AEFI classifications…

        …opposed to life 200 years ago… my oh my…that really is all you have!

        Edit: Not withstanding HHS has failed for 32 years…that’s 16 times it has broken federal law by not submitting biannual reports to congress detailing improvement to vaccine safety…

        • McFlock 7.1.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 9:05 pm

          You want to shit on current medical practise, you compare it with the situation before we had it. That's what irks me about your little rants. In the last thirty years SUDI/SIDS/"cot death" has decreased by something like 75% in NZ. That's thousands of deaths prevented in the last 20 years from one cause in NZ alone, saved by population research, animal experiments, clinicians and public health workers.

          And your bleating about vaccination stands in the face of our current causes of death, so rather than asking about congressional reports nobody cares about and were probably politically horse-traded by the inbred member for the 3rd district, maybe you should invent a better disease prevention tool to take the place of vaccination.

          Other commenters have valid concerns about individual agency and the way some things are done, but they usually also have a pretty good idea of how to fix it. You're just someone who feels good by pretending everyone and everything else is shit sorry "working at a lower level".

          • One Two 7.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 9:43 pm

            Firstly, and so you are under no illusion. I have not forgotten that insult you threw at me a while back…you know the one I am talking about…or have you blanked it?

            That you feel empowered enough to be responding to my comments after that is a strong indication of who you are as an individual. Shall I remind you what that insult was ?

            I am responding to you, is an indication of who I am. See if you can wrap your head around that before you think about reverting to type.

            So, in actuality it's the 100% liability free vaccine science industry/pharmaceutical profit model which shits all over the human species as is hindering improvements to current medical practice while people such as yourself seek to make excuses for it…the bleating rests firmly with you…

            You've not read the congressional report, and if you had you read it along with a number of the other links I have posted recently, you would understand there is a serious set of problems which are now coming out in no uncertain terms…and they will continue to sink the entire industry…real science will see to that…

            But instead you want to generalise and dismiss 32 years of federal law breaking by the HHS…and your seemingly comfortable enough with the law breaking of federal agencies who are running interference for the pharmaceutical industry…because you're apparently comfortable with modern medical practice…

            As for the last paragraph…yeah I get that you angry little guys like to support each other no matter what level of horridness is in the comments which are pushed out…and when I respond using actual hard evidence linking to serious data…you angry little guys capitulate…

            As I said to marty mars elsewhere…we're not all on the same level…that is a complete impossibility…so instead of mouthing off with ignorant abuse and insults against mothers of vaccine damaged and killed children..and those who share information about what is actually going on …

            Show some god damn humility and respect to what is a highly sensitive, complex and polarising subject…and read a tonne more material…put in the hours, make some effort and take some responsibility for your shortcomings…

            Or stay out of the subject…either way…show the subject some respect.

            • McFlock 7.1.1.1.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 9:53 pm

              I remember it, and stand by it.

              As for the sort of person you are, I note that you're the sort of person who likes to say things like "I am responding to you, is an indication of who I am." as if incoherence is a substitute for intelligence.

              Go look up some old photos of polio wards and iron lungs, then get back to me about “vaccine damage”.

              I await your predicted collapse of vaccination with baited breath 🙄

              • One Two …
                26 April 2019 at 10:15 pm

                I remember it, and stand by it.

                Of course you do, despite another long term commentator, contributer and former moderator of this site pulling you up on it…

                No humility, not a shred of it to be found…of course you stand by it…

                The sort of person I am… is that I continue to engage with you…but you can't comprehend that level of positivity when presented with it…so you have to use smears laced with your own highly toxic (not so masculine) views…

                Go look up some old photos of polio wards and iron lungs, then get back to me about “vaccine damage”.

                Only someone who is terribly misinformed and unhealthy could attempt to wave away millions of vaccine damaged children…untold thousands of deaths all measured by a passive voluntary system which captures +/- 1% of damage caused by vaccines globally…that’s only the nations who have such systems….vaccine science…

                Dismissing the misery and suffering of families past, present and future all to prove what…that some maimed and dead people are more worthy than other maimed and dead people…seriously, that is what it appears you’re doing…

                That you seek to make such a vile comparison illustrates purely who you are…

                You're a guy who calls another blogger a rape enabling shit heel…and stands behind it…despite being called out, and told in no uncertain terms you had crossed a line…

                That is the type of guy you are!

                • McFlock …
                  26 April 2019 at 10:24 pm

                  When I saw RL's comment, I went back, had a think, and yes that's exactly what you were being in that Assange thread. And I explained why.

                  Please show some basis for your millions and untold thousands line. At least something to indicate you're not just making shit up.

                  • One Two …
                    26 April 2019 at 10:38 pm

                    You explained only what enables you to stand by that insult..

                    Which you made from pure assumptions made up around a belief of my not having been 'trusted'…that's all about you…all of it…

                    You're like the pharmaceutical vaccine manufacturers…you have created an environmemt from which there is no way to peacefully or respectfully back out of…so you press on relentlessly…

                    As for your request..it's all out there…do it yourself…I already have…search my comments…do the leg work…I've given plenty of material for you or anyone else to work from…

                    • Bazza64 …
                      26 April 2019 at 10:43 pm

                      One Two you clueless Munter, go on post your evidence of millions of vaccine affected children, but I know you won’t, you are a flake & on line clown

                      [lprent: Less abuse, more content please. Otherwise I may have to release my inner abuser to demonstrate why that behaviour isn’t a good idea (and I’ve had a good 40 years on the net to hone the art properly). ]

                    • McFlock …
                      26 April 2019 at 11:11 pm

                      Nothing to do with trust, everything to do with your snide innuendo.

                      And for someone who rants about the scientific method, saying "do it yourself" when asked for evidence of your assertions is hypocritical in the extreme.

                    • One Two []
                      27 April 2019 at 12:01 am

                      …snide innuendo…

                      As I’ve already said to you multiple times…stop applying your crude emotional interpretations to my comments as validation for your abuse…

                      …hypocritical in the extreme…

                      I’ve done the leg work and pointed you to where you can find ample evidence of VAERS failings…there’s another clue for you…

                      Don’t project your ill disciplined lack of search and comprehension and capability in my direction…

                      Take responsibility for your own learning…that’s if you’re actually interested …

                      Which all indications are…that you're not…your comments tell me you're not…

                      Your tremendous lack of knowledge and misguided comments on this subject are proof that you're not genuinely interested…

                      Or you’d already have done something about it…years ago…

                    • Bazza64 …
                      26 April 2019 at 11:13 pm

                      No evidence or links supplied by One Two, what a surprise – he shows his true colours. Spreads his hilarious rubbish trying to appear knowledgable, but is a person of no real substance.

                    • McFlock …
                      27 April 2019 at 12:14 am

                      The funny thing is that if VAERS was as far off as you think that project suggested (and they were only looking at possible adverse events based on subsequent contact with healthcare within 30 days, without actually providing a baseline for that figure), why is it that every other adverse event reporting system shows similarly high levels of safety, and lower levels of safety for similar specific vaccines? Often using the same reporting system as for drugs and medications etc.

                      Your argument is that every nation and international organisation around the world is failing to detect some sort of epidemic of vaccine-related illnesses that kill thousands and "damage" millions. And that either nobody has noticed or the people that know are deliberately covering it up.

                    • One Two []
                      27 April 2019 at 1:23 am

                      But that's not the only link I've posted to regarding VAERS…its failings and limitations…

                      +/- 1% at best…

                      30 days is almost the longest vaccine pre licensure testing cycle of any CDC scheduled vaccine…if you knew that would wouldn't believe it was a failing of the study…

                      Most pre licensure testing cycles were single figure days with no follow up at all…

                      None of which were tested against an inert placebo control group..all were FDA approved…after which time they can't ever be tested against an inert placebo control group..

                      Completely unscientific…

                      …failing to detect some sort of epidemic…

                      * Trained to detect what?

                      * Adverse reactions. Which type…defined by who ?

                      * Logging identified adverse reactions into what/when/how well…

                      Shed loads of highly qualified professional medical people and other professional industry people have noticed…and more are making the realization every day that kids get sicker…more illness and disease…disorders and symptoms are considered normal..it's not…

                      The NVICP has paid out $4bn in compensation…Aus/Nz have no such scheme…

                      FDA/CDC/Pharma have a long legacy of cover ups…FDA had an off record database holding 1.1m adverse reactions from medical devices hidden from medical professionals researchers and the public…look it up…

                      All the big players have form…that is undeniable as it is abundantly documented.

                      For those who put in the time.

                    • McFlock …
                      27 April 2019 at 5:21 pm

                      You're just making unsubstantiated assertions now.

                      I can do that, too.

                      Everything you wrote is wrong.

              • Bazza64 …
                26 April 2019 at 10:24 pm

                McFlock

                enjoying the lengthy rants from one two? He is a bona fide crazy, would be happier living in the Middle Ages with a witches poultice as treatment for disease.

                I suspect he is into Tarot card reading, Feng Shui & other weird stuff, probably got a homeopathy stand at the local market

                • McFlock …
                  26 April 2019 at 10:28 pm

                  lol nah, 1-2 just reads the matrix and cures everything with the power of their own ego.

                  Trouble is, if you leave them in a little echo chamber too long, less stupid people might end up believing that shit. Because people would rather believe some numpty on the interwebz than get their shots, and then we're all endangered

                  • Bazza64 …
                    26 April 2019 at 10:36 pm

                    Given One Two’s irrational fear of wi-fi radiation, he must be fully dressed in a tin foil suit doing such lengthy posts. This could be quite uncomfortable which may explain why he gets so rat-eye doing his posts.

                  • Psycho Milt …
                    26 April 2019 at 11:09 pm

                    Trouble is, if you leave them in a little echo chamber too long, less stupid people might end up believing that shit.

                    Fuck yes. Thank you for taking the trouble.

                  • One Two …
                    26 April 2019 at 11:26 pm

                    less stupid people might end up believing…

                    Many folks are much smarter than you…or I…and they sure don't need you're patronizing and mysogenistic concerns…

                    …and then we're all endangered…

                    Are you serious with that comment…be honest now…do you stand by that comment?

                    Despite proven:

                    • Vaccine failure
                    • Vaccine waning
                    • Herd immunity logical fallacy
                    • Et al

                    Provide evidence to show how we're all endangered by unvaccinated human beings…

      • Rosemary McDonald 7.1.2
        26 April 2019 at 7:47 pm

        "Which still manages to save millions of people every year,…"

        Such a pity about the 1/4 of a million the modern medical profession manages to kill.

        https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

        • McFlock 7.1.2.1
          26 April 2019 at 8:47 pm

          Yes, it is a pity.

          You know why it's the third largest? Because polio, poxes, tuberculosis, cholera, and a variety of other causes have been vastly reduced.

          • RedLogix 7.1.2.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 9:20 pm

            Reduced largely due to clean water supply, city scale sanitation, pest control, warmer homes and safer food supplies. The massive increases in life expectancy the last century were much more to do with relatively mundane engineering than medical magic.

            I'm not unappreciative of what modern medicine does for us; for acute illness and severe accidents it can and does perform miracles. Yet for the great chronic killers, cancer, strokes, heart disease, diabetes and dementia progress is much less stellar.

            • Ad 7.1.2.1.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 9:29 pm

              I mean, what have the Romans ever done for us?

            • McFlock 7.1.2.1.1.2
              26 April 2019 at 9:41 pm

              City water supply – oh, some of that would be down to the physician John Snow who demonstrated that cholera was waterborne, not distributed by bad air. Broke off a pump handle.

              The solutions might have been mundane engineering (although the London sewers have some really nice tweaks in the original designs – there's some detail in there), but for the solutions to work out of anything more than coincidence, you need to know the mechanisms of ill health.

              City sanitation is definitely a contributor to public health, but that would mostly be gastro and rabies sorts of thing. The major improvements to health were antibiotics and vaccines, with some military-oriented things like dietary analysis and blood transfusion.

              There have been some pretty massive advances against chronic conditions over the last 20 years (e.g. cancer survival rates are improving), but unless you get hit by a truck you have to die of something non-injury related.

              • One Two …
                26 April 2019 at 10:55 pm

                Vaccines are not health improving…you're confused and incorrect…

                You're either poorly educated, poorly trained …certainly poorly informed…there is no excuse for it in this day and age whatever your constraints are…

                <em>know the mechanisms of ill health…</em>

                Sure…but that changes nothing about the truth behind Reds comment…sanitation and plumbing and nutrition did more than vaccines ever have…

                Look up the graphs…disease deaths rapidly declined before vaccines were available…almost across the board…

                • McFlock …
                  26 April 2019 at 11:13 pm

                  How's your smallpox been lately?

                  • One Two …
                    26 April 2019 at 11:32 pm

                    How are you even challenging my comments with that level of thought…

                    In your opinion…an honest one if you can muster it…

                    Does a single comment you've made refute or alter any of the links I've been posting…

                    I'll be posting many more on this subject…suggest you go through my comments and read some of the linked detail…understand it…grasp it…comprehend the information…

                    I've not even got moving yet…

                    [lprent: Don’t try to play the internet victim card. Or I’ll see about making you understand the difference between playing a victim and actually being one. And I will do it critically looking at what you say and what it says about you.

                    I’d probably start by criticising the value of your selected links for your topic. In my opinion, a brief scan of them shows that about third are unrelated to the topic, another third are from sources and that I’d class as dubious, and most of the remainder don’t really support your argument because you don’t seem to understand what the papers were looking at. Unconvincing.

                    But I do like to educate people about the limits of the net, usually by echoing their own style back at them – just done more precisely ]

                    • McFlock …
                      27 April 2019 at 12:04 am

                      Your movement is there for all to see. Sitting there, in the middle of the room.

                      You're going to cut&paste paragraphs and sections that criticise some aspects of modern healthcare but ignore the wider context of the articles that you take those criticisms from, usually without any links so people can easily see what the articles actually say as a complete work.

                      You will also avoid any impulse to acknowledge the demonstrable benefits of the modern healthcare that has enabled many people reading this blog to be alive today. And you will continue to shit on one of the most effective and least harmful health interventions ever developed by humans.

                      And you'll do this knowing that every lazy cut&paste you throw out will take work to find the source, read it, actually understand it (and effort you happily avoid), figure out that you're treating serious adverse effects as possible adverse effects and vice versa, and then compose that as a response… which you will fail to understand and then ignore with some trite dismissal.

                      So your intense stupidity and your undeserved ego act in a mutually-defensive symbiosis, each protecting the other from getting through to you what a complete dropkick you really are.

                    • One Two []
                      27 April 2019 at 12:29 am

                      +/- 1% Mcflock…

                      Do the numbers by searching the VAERS DB…what there is to search anyway…

                      Alongside that check into the changing of AEFI classifications and other methods employed to deflect injury and deaths away from the vaccines…lot's of word play…not mine…the vaccine science industry's…

                      Even if I did understand as little as what you wish I do…it would still be easy enough to identify the fraudulant illegal activities…

                      Being able read would be enough…which is why I know you're not serious…

                      Because you can obviously read…

                    • One Two …
                      27 April 2019 at 12:21 am

                      ill see about making you understand the difference between playing the victim and being one..

                      Come of it…that is simply not necessary at all…I've been posting in good faith on this subject…I always seek to comment in good faith…

                      personally I'd start by criticising the value of your selected links

                      Lprent…go right ahead..it would make a change from the present level of responses…

                      Although given your misread of Rosemarys comment which I replied to you on, you'll want to do more than be skim reading…

                      What argument am I making…and how are the links not supporting it?

                  • The Al1en …
                    26 April 2019 at 11:35 pm

                    Remember your BCG immunisation? I do, and I've not had TB once. Result.

                    • One Two …
                      26 April 2019 at 11:46 pm

                      Be sure to post the method used to prove the vaccine prevented you getting TB…

                      Or that it will prevent you ever catching TB…

                      Or that it's not responsible for some other future illness you may contract…

                      Oh…you can’t…neither can vaccine manufacturers…becsuse it was never tested that way…

                    • lprent []
                      27 April 2019 at 12:13 am

                      You are asking him to prove a negative. That is impossible. The mere fact he hasn’t had TB in about 40 years will never be a proof despite the minor prevalence of Tb in NZ (or its prevalence wherever he travelled). You can’t prove that it didn’t confer immunity either.

                      in short you are acting like an ignorant dimwit trying to define an impossible test.

                      I really don’t like game playing dickheads, would you like me to prove that, or are you going to tone down.

                    • One Two []
                      27 April 2019 at 12:40 am

                      Both mcflock and alien were talking about proving negatives…

                      You understand thats what their comments were doing regarding smallpox and TB…right?

                      I don't really like game playing dickheads…would you like me to prove that…

                      Firstly, this is not a subject I play games with and if you'd done more than skim read you would see I've actually stated as much…

                      Secondly, can you ease off with the abuse and threats of bullying…there is more than enough going around without you piling in as well…

                      Ready to discuss in a respectful manner with you, anytime…but that needs to go both ways…

                    • The Al1en …
                      26 April 2019 at 11:51 pm

                      Be sure to post all the evidence you have that getting a BCG jab at 12 will be responsible for a future illness I haven't yet contracted at 52. lol

        • Psycho Milt 7.1.2.2
          26 April 2019 at 11:14 pm

          Such a pity about the 1/4 of a million the modern medical profession manages to kill.

          The perfect is the enemy of the good. How about giving some thanks for the good instead of berating the good for not being perfect?

          I'd be dead twice over already without the modern medical profession, and if one of those medical professionals fucks up the next time and kills me, I'll still have lived decades longer than I would have otherwise. The people who'd prefer nature got to take its course with me back in the 80s can go fuck themselves.

  8. Observer Tokoroa 8
    26 April 2019 at 10:08 am

    Nationals Aparthied Game
    them and us

    As you are all aware, the Wealthy Goons we call National, thump their chests like Gorillas and shit like Monkeys. Why? because they are Monkeys. They do no work. They steal from the Poor.

    It is even said that they don't pay a lot of Taxes. Their Accountants make sure they don’t't have to. They do give heaps of Gaming Machines to their chosen Monkey friends.

    The Gorillars also make sure that the general New Zealand Public pay Tax on every purchase they make.

    Any how, I am beginning to think that the Gorillas – Collins and Company for instance, should take their foot off the necks of the Impoverished New Zeland Population.

    The Poor in NZ pay 15% of whatever they Purchase to the Government. It used to be less than that. But one of the Gorillas (you know him well) shoved the Fee up to 15% – so he could hurt the Poor even more. Billy English laughed all the way home. He loves hurt.

    I am proposing that from the First day of Spring 2019, the impoverished Sector of New Zealand have no Purchase Tax ( GST) imposed upon them. None. Zilch. Nothing.

    I mean when a family is facing paying $17 dollars for a block of low level Cheese (Fonterra muck) it is about time low level people like most of us, get a break.

    To be fair to the Gorrillas who are not like ordinary men ,and who proudly declare they are wealthy because they work their fat bellies off on cruises and dodgy property sales, we will offer a GST.

    Now, as Wealthy people are frequently reluctant to pay anything that resembles a tax, we will Give the wealthy Gorillas a GST of 75%, based on their earnings over the past nine years.

    Like as the wealthy Gorrilas set out to impoverish the poor, we will set out to help the Fat Cats and fat Gorillas to trim down a bit of their offensive guts.

    the GST will apply to every Purchase made. That is why it is called a GST.

    I am sure it will please the the Goons- no end. It will be a nice farewell to devious Mr Roger Nomics.

    –

    [lprent: I see that I need to trailing whitespace cleanup with the the new editor. ]

  9. greywarshark 9
    26 April 2019 at 10:32 am

    Microsoft becomes third listed US firm to be valued at $1tn

    Company beat sales and profit expectations to join Apple and Amazon in prestigious club

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/25/microsoft-becomes-third-listed-us-firm-to-be-valued-at-1tn

    • patricia bremner 9.1
      26 April 2019 at 10:39 am

      Most of these companies are propped up by mum and dad super funds looking for a perch. That is what is pushing values askew.

    • alwyn 9.2
      26 April 2019 at 1:08 pm

      I think the phrase should have been "Microsoft becomes third listed US firm to have been valued at $1tn".

      At close of business Apple had a Market Cap of $967 billion, Amazon $936 billion and Microsoft $991 billion. You really have to feel story for Mr Bezos et al, don't you?

  10. greywarshark 10
    26 April 2019 at 11:36 am

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/25/greta-thunberg-autism-spectrum-critics

    Like Greta Thunberg, I am on the autism spectrum. She gives me hope

    Charlie Hancock

    Rarely have I identified with anything so strongly as when I listened to Greta Thunberg, the 16-year-old Nobel peace prize nominee, talking to Nick Robinson on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. Like her, I have been diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, and it is rare that women like me appear in the media.

    Yet Thunberg’s rise to prominence has been accompanied by a kind of thoughtlessness and intolerance that you might have expected society to have moved beyond.

    Spiked’s editor, Brendan O’Neill, seized upon autistic traits Thunberg exhibits, such as her “monotone voice” and forthright manner, to liken her to a “cult member”, in an attempt to delegitimise her message.

    In an even more spiteful example, a glib tweet by the Australian writer and lawyer Helen Dale called for Andrew Neil to interview Thunberg with such ferocity that it causes her to “have a meltdown on national telly”. This strongly implies that there are those who want not only to humiliate her but to cause her great emotional distress.
    😈 ➡

    • Wensleydale 10.1
      26 April 2019 at 1:24 pm

      Are you suprised? Vested interests will gleefully throw children into a threshing machine if they genuinely believe it will protect their ill-gotten gains and/or maintain the comfortable status quo. There is no low they will not stoop to because they don't care about anyone other than themselves and those like them.

      In regard to climate change, their philosophy seems to be, "By the time the shit really hits the fan, I'll be dead. And my pampered offspring will be safely ensconced inside the Armageddon bunker I've spent torrents of cash constructing. Fuck the rest of the humanity."

      • greywarshark 10.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 2:02 pm

        And later news:

        When the Hunkdead family bunker was finally entered after a decade of no communication, the bodies of the family were found dehydrated in blood-splattered rooms, the result of an apparent rampage of the patriarch of the family who killed himself with one of the two guns he was holding.

    • patricia bremner 10.2
      26 April 2019 at 4:01 pm

      Ever since Trump, those who enjoy "Pecking the chicken which is different" feel justified in so doing. Many examples are appearing. The situation you described and Destiny Church blasting the Mosque with loudspeakers "Claiming Christchurch."

      These people have always been there, but IMO Trump and other antisocial events have made it normal, sadly.

  11. Siobhan 11
    26 April 2019 at 11:58 am

    Just a Midday Greeting , best wishes and Aroha to the parents of the 440 children in Napier/Hastings who slept in motels last night, cramped into unsuitable rooms, with their humble possessions. And who are probably dreading tonights sleeping arrangements.

    I can’t even imagine (and certainly no one in power wants to measure) how many children are bedding down at grandparents, Aunts and Uncles houses, out of sheer desperation.

    And yet the Hawkes Bay has an amazing economy, the housing market is booming..the question is..do we have a Government willing to take the bull by the horns and restructure the economy so everyone 'benefits'. (Though at what point a roof over ones head became such an elusive 'benefit' I do not know)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12222609

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1903/S00144/economic-snapshot-hawkes-bay-growth-continues.htm

    • Rosemary McDonald 11.1
      26 April 2019 at 12:12 pm

      "…do we have a Government willing to take the bull by the horns and restructure the economy so everyone 'benefits'. "

      Sadly, no.

      • Observer Tokoroa 11.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 12:21 pm

        Hi Rosemary McDonald

        Why don’t't you ask the wealthy for the Money. Put a call into Simon.

        The Nationals have untold wealth. But no Heart.

      • New view 11.1.2
        26 April 2019 at 8:17 pm

        Haven’t seen many on this forum willing to say that. I agree. I’m from the right but would be willing to support Labour if they had the fortitude to make the changes that National were criticised for not making. So far they are good at trying to stay in Government but not so good at making real change.

    • greywarshark 11.2
      26 April 2019 at 7:45 pm

      We don't use bulls these days, the process is too dodgy, physical, fraught with microbes, error possibilities and it's low technology. So no bulls, no horns; we get scientific results from artificial insemination. Really all sexuality is so uncertain in the old ways. In our Brave New World we are improving on Nature. This is sarc/ by the way you stupid believers.

    • greywarshark 11.3
      27 April 2019 at 10:50 am

      Using motels unfilled capacity to provide housing for NZs homeless. It sounds like an economists smart plan for maximum utilisation of all living spaces in NZ. The sort of thing that communist governments might think of within some five year plan for efficient use of assets.

  12. The Chairman 12
    26 April 2019 at 12:11 pm

    There is talk Labour are considering relaxing their Budget Responsibility Rules to help compensate for their abandonment of a comprehensive CGT.

    However, failing to address the fairness in our tax system leaves those (not making vast tax free gains) paying off the burden of borrowing more.

    • Observer Tokoroa 12.1
      26 April 2019 at 12:35 pm

      Hi Siobanh

      Do you think a National Mongrel Government will do anything for the impoverished children of New Zealand.

      They havent done anything – have they? And yet they sell themselves as the Messiah. They have not changed their ugly spots in decades.

    • alwyn 12.2
      26 April 2019 at 1:13 pm

      "Ther is talk". As the Lyrics of the song "Show Me" in My Fair Lady put it

      "Words!Words! Words!
      I'm so sick of words!
      I get words all day through;
      First from him, now from you!
      Is that all you blighters can do?"

      When will the "talk" finish and the action start?

      • The Chairman 12.2.1
        26 April 2019 at 3:09 pm

        The more time they spend talking, the less time they have to put that talk into action.

        It seems, Labour thinks talking buys them time to act. Which would explain all their working groups (talkfests).

        And after all that talking, time and time again Labour has shown they largely fail to walk the talk.

        9 years in opposition, nearly 2 years in government and they are still talking and working through policy.

        • Craig H 12.2.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 4:13 pm

          Labour had stacks of policy and lost two elections, so had to rethink a lot of it because it obviously wasn't selling.

          • The Chairman 12.2.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 4:47 pm

            From memory, they have made more changes in party leaders than they have in policy.

            • Craig H 12.2.1.1.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 9:10 pm

              Since Clark, Labour has had Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Little and now Ardern – 5 in 9 years is quite a few, but more than 5 policies have come and gone in that time.

              • The Chairman …
                26 April 2019 at 9:35 pm

                Dropping removing GST off food.

                The turnaround on the TPP.

                Dropping Kiwi insure.

                Dropping a CGT.

                Dropping compulsory Kiwisaver.

                Above are 5 that come to mind. Care to list some more?

        • Drowsy M. Kram 12.2.1.2
          26 April 2019 at 6:13 pm

          "nearly 2 years in government" – you spinner! Exactly one-and-a-half years, actually.

          "The Sixth Labour Government has governed New Zealand since 26 October 2017."

    • Sacha 12.3
      26 April 2019 at 6:42 pm

      "Labour are considering relaxing their Budget Responsibility Rules to help compensate for their abandonment of a comprehensive CGT."

      Do you get paid to repeat the same talking points day after day? Had this discussion already.

  13. greywarshark 13
    26 April 2019 at 12:31 pm

    Trusting, naive young female v young jocks. Expose by hacker Anonymous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2019/apr/18/anonymous-comes-to-town-how-hackers-took-on-high-school-sexual-assault-in-ohio

    We're not bad people. This is not us. Calls from those who haven't ever reflected on the health of society's mind. Doesn't do to not think on one's own moral integrity as well.

    One from the past. A town closed round and attempted to grow over its sore. The young woman's murderers were known from practically the next day, but there was an unwillingness to show integrity and respect from the whites to the Indian family involved. Only determination to bring justice for the death in 1971 brought the case to trial in 1987. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Betty_Osborne

    https://medium.com/gendered-violence/what-detectives-hide-from-you-the-story-of-helen-betty-osborne-8a04aebf60bb

    Book – https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25800893-betty

    Tv film – (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFGSiu9G0Vc

  14. One Two 14
    26 April 2019 at 1:14 pm

    https://ssjournals.com/index.php/ijbr/article/download/3040/2228/

    VAERS Reporting System Globally:

    In these countries AEFI data is mainly collected through spontaneous (voluntary) reporting from doctors .

    • The major drawback of this reporting system is under reporting & bad quality of report.
    • All countries have nearly similar reporting details in their prescribed form of reporting.
    • Practicing pediatrics and educated parents are not aware of these reporting systems hence under reporting of AEFI is in all countries.

    Bad quality data is reported into voluntary global reporting systems which only capture a fraction of adverse events from around the world.

  15. WeTheBleeple 15
    26 April 2019 at 1:29 pm

    They Are Not Us.

    The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Programme received $22 million in 2017 to investigate UFO's, and now the US Navy is drafting new guidelines for reporting them.

    We've followed and filmed them: "The aircraft was capable of “advanced acceleration, aerodynamic and propulsion capability”

    https://www.vice.com/en_nz/article/9k8kaz/the-pentagon-released-new-documents-about-the-tic-tac-ufo

    There are various accounts of 'tic-tac' like craft

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident

    "Recently, unidentified aircraft entered military-designated airspace multiple times per month.

    "We want to get to the bottom of this. We need to determine who's doing it, where it's coming from and what their intent is. We need to try to find ways to prevent it from happening again.""

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/112255287/ufo-sightings-from-pilots-on-the-rise-pushing-us-navy-to-investigate

    These craft are said to 'operate outside the laws of physics' e.g. tremendous velocity but no exhaust port, turn on a dime at high speed. As physics is the model humans use to make clever stuff – the designers of these craft are not us.

    The US navy is gunning to gun one down: 'aircraft entering designated air space […] We need to try to find ways to prevent it from happening again'.

    Somebody needs to tell the aliens the rules on US airspace (all the airspace are us) before these trigger-happy rednecks start an interplanetary incident.

    It's obvious that If Trump were to meet Alf he'd kill him for doing Trumps hair better than Trump. We are not alone in the universe. Can we make it to a meet and greet – before a war?

    • greywarshark 15.1
      26 April 2019 at 1:33 pm

      I can't read all that serious stuff. But I saw that bit about Alf and Trump's hair. Lol.

    • Rosemary McDonald 15.2
      26 April 2019 at 2:02 pm

      What gets me WTB is that while it would seem that US military pilots are desperate for their bosses at the Pantygon to take their reports of encounters with UFOs seriously, 'the media'…and almost all of them…seem determined to present the issue as a joke. Complete with cartoon flying saucers.

      Luckily it appears there will be a worldwide clamp down on what stories appear in front of the common people…we will be saved from having to decide for ourselves if we think claims such as the pilots are making are plausible.

      • WeTheBleeple 15.2.1
        26 April 2019 at 2:09 pm

        Media's always been controlled – the internet gave some respite from that. Back in the day the trick was to only have bibles, and them in Latin. Let the peasants work that out!

        For sure they'll want to police the internet better.

      • Dennis Frank 15.2.2
        26 April 2019 at 10:15 pm

        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/379284/ufo-group-in-partnership-with-chilean-government-sightings-on-rise

        Note how the '78 Kaikoura phenomena "appeared on Wellington Air Traffic Control radar, on the aircraft radar". "A report by authorities later dismissed the giant orbs as possibly reflected lights from squid boats."

        I suspect the report failed to explain how lights from squid boats appeared on both radar screens. I suspect nobody in the media ran a story featuring a scientist explaining how light can appear as an object on a radar screen. I suspect no scientists were even asked. Could be due to the general view that radar waves bounce off solid objects, eh?

        Why would an official report insult everyone's intelligence in this manner? Muldoon probably told them to. "Kiwis are as thick as pig-shit. They'll swallow anything."

    • Dennis Frank 15.3
      26 April 2019 at 10:37 pm

      RNZ newsreader earlier mentioned that there's been a big upswing in sightings since 2014. Think it referred to official sightings, what's more. This seems to support that:

      "Since 2014, these intrusions have been happening on a regular basis," Joseph Gradisher, spokesman for the deputy chief of naval operations for information warfare, told The Washington Post on Wednesday."

      "Recently, unidentified aircraft entered military-designated airspace as often as multiple times per month." Security chiefs must be seriously spooked!

      Military pilots who have reported seeing these aircraft say they have "no air intake" "and no exhaust". Not burning fossil fuels equals Green tech, eh? Little Green Men! Trying to be helpful: "Hey, copy this!"

      Chris Mellon, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence and a staffer on the Senate Intelligence Committee said the strange aircraft "seem to exceed our aircraft in speed". All the ace-dude jet pilots are probably in a collective funk after being out-buzzed by the LGMs.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12225228

      https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/unauthorized-aircraft-sightings-lead-navy-develop-ufo-reporting/story?id=62625928

    • One Two 16.1
      26 April 2019 at 2:15 pm

      Joe, are you going to keep running with abusive and deeply mysogonistic comments?

      You have proven not to understand the fundamentals of the vaccine discussion yet you continue to insult and abuse every parent globally who has and can testitfy to their child having been maimed, damaged or killed by vaccines…

      Why are you continuing on in such a manner ?

      Instead of throwing abusive insults and running away…perhaps you could uplift your understanding on the issues ….

      Would you like to continue ?

      • joe90 16.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 2:20 pm

        Do fuck off.

        • One Two 16.1.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 2:23 pm

          And you would say the same to every parent globally who has had a child maimed, damaged or killed by vaccines, would you?

          Keep going…or run…again?

          • joe90 16.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 2:29 pm

            I lived through a polio epidemic that claimed the lives of neighbours and afflicted close family with life long disabilities disabilities.

            So would you mind fucking yourself, you supercilious shit. Ta.

            [lprent: I’d not suggest continuing in this vein. ]

            • One Two 16.1.1.1.1.1
              26 April 2019 at 2:42 pm

              That's no excuse for the abusive, insulting and mysogonistic comments you continue to post on the subject….

              What is it that you are so fearful of which compels you to remain willfully ignorant?

              As I've previously explained how confirmation bias works Joe…your twisted feeds are the consequence of your twisted bias…

              As your feed includes such low grade sites such as TH…have another link from the same site…did your feed send you this article…nah…course not.

              https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/295562-if-only-half-of-america-is-properly-vaccinated-where-are-the

              If only half of America is properly vaccinated, where are the epidemics?

              Below are comments I have recently posted.

              https://khn.org/news/hidden-fda-database-medical-device-injuries-malfunctions

              FDA Hiding Adverse Reaction Data

              The FDA has built and expanded a vast and hidden repository of reports on device-related injuries and malfunctions

              Since 2016, at least 1.1 million incidents have flowed into the internal “alternative summary reporting” repository, instead of being described individually in the widely scrutinized public database known as MAUDE, which medical experts trust to identify problems that could put patients in jeopardy.

              Yet the program, in all its iterations, has been so obscure that it is unknown to many of the doctors and engineers dedicated to improving device safety. Even a former FDA commissioner said he knew nothing of the program.

              “The public has a right to know about this,” said Dr. S. Lori Brown, a former FDA official who accessed the data for her research. She said doctors relying just on the public reports — and unaware that many incidents may be omitted — can easily reach the wrong conclusion about the safety record of a particular device.

              https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2109855?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=2109848

              Research Misconduct Identified by the US Food and Drug Administration:
              Out of Sight, Out of Mind, Out of the Peer-Reviewed Literature

              For each of the 57 remaining trials, 1 or more FDA inspections of a trial site had uncovered evidence of significant departures from good clinical practice, such as under reporting of adverse events, violations of protocol, violations of recruitment guidelines, and various forms of scientific misconduct.

              * falsification or submission of false information,
              * 22 trials (39%); problems with adverse events reporting,
              * 14 trials (25%); protocol violations,
              * 42 trials (74%); inadequate or inaccurate record keeping,
              * 35 trials (61%); failure to protect the safety of patients and/or issues with oversight or informed consent,
              * 30 trials (53%); and violations not otherwise categorized,
              * 20 trials (35%). Only 3 of the 78 publications (4%) that resulted from trials in which the FDA found significant violations mentioned the objectionable conditions or practices found during the inspection.

              No corrections, retractions, expressions of concern, or other comments acknowledging the key issues identified by the inspection were subsequently published.

              https://ssjournals.com/index.php/ijbr/article/download/3040/2228/

              VAERS Reporting System Globally:

              In these countries AEFI data is mainly collected through spontaneous (voluntary) reporting from doctors .

              • The major drawback of this reporting system is under reporting & bad quality of report.
              • All countries have nearly similar reporting details in their prescribed form of reporting.
              • Practicing pediatrics and educated parents are not aware of these reporting systems hence under reporting of AEFI is in all countries.

              Bad quality data is reported into voluntary global reporting systems which only capture a fraction of adverse events from around the world.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                26 April 2019 at 3:01 pm

                The argument for herd immunity was actually developed out of observations of natural immunity, not vaccination. Statisticians observed that populations were protected when sufficient members contracted the wild form of a disease, and subsequently acquired lifelong immunity. With vaccines, however, evidence shows that unvaccinated children may catch infectious diseases from vaccinated children. What is true of natural immunity is not true of vaccination.

                Gosh, Science! And, Statistics!

                (They still won't be able to break away from the herd One Two. I think you're asking too much.)

                • lprent …
                  26 April 2019 at 3:32 pm

                  Actually, the latter part of quoted statement is false and appears to be a case of deliberate lying.

                  This is the carrier problem, one of those things that simpletons don't usually understand too well – and therefore a quite common myth amongst anti-vaxxers.

                  Vaccines or even previous exposure don't kill all instances of a bacterium or virus in a body. What they do is to assist the bodies natural defenses in keeping the volume of a particular population of and organism down below the point of explosive growth.

                  So yes, if a unvaccinated person is exposed to a vaccinated person, they can get exposed to the organism and it will start breeding.

                  However exactly the same thing happens in herd animals as well. The statement :-

                  What is true of natural immunity is not true of vaccination.

                  is a simple lie.

                  It is pretty obvious even to a simpleton if they care to think about it. Unlike modern humans, most herd animals have two distinguishing characteristics as populations:-

                  * They don't usually move out of the herd or local family or herds. Which means that they don't meet others carrying organisms that they don't have immunity from.

                  * They have much shorter lives and faster breeding cycles than humans do. Which means that any immunities that are passed to them from their lactating mother tend to be stronger over their lifetime.

                  So when looking at herds you're looking at a population awash with the small concentrations of diseases and a high natural immunity because everyone is exposed to the same diseases all of the time. A good example is cowpox which is endemic in most populations of cattle, but only affects new populations or human hand milkers.

                  As you'd expect when a new disease is introduced from outside of the local herds, then you tend to find rapid decreases in population (think of foot and mouth disease amongst cattle) and the residual population getting a strong immunity and passing it to their progeny.

                  Whereas humans may have gained immunity the hard way many decades before having a kid and simply don’t pass all of their own weakened immunities to the kids.

                  Wide vaccination increases the immunity in the small herds at schools and therefore keeps the population density of bugs down regardless of the varying degrees of immunity amongst that population.

                  • One Two …
                    26 April 2019 at 6:07 pm

                    What is true of natural immunity is not true of vaccination.

                    I would suggest Rosemary is referring to natural immunity as in catching a strain of the virus which circulates outside of the lab created strains…

                    Catching such a virus strain leads to full cell immunity which confers lifetime immunity…

                    Vaccine induced immunity does not, is not and cannot create lifetime immunity…

                    What vaccine strains of a virus can and do leave, is tell-tale signs of identifiable vaccinated human beings for whom vaccination has failed, or has worn off…

                    The lie you're searching for is vaccine induced herd immunity as it applies to human beings… I've provided a link elsewhere…

                • One Two …
                  26 April 2019 at 3:46 pm

                  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8053748

                  Failure to reach the goal of measles elimination. Apparent paradox of measles infections in immunized persons. – PubMed – NCBI

                  CONCLUSIONS:

                  The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons.

                  Because of the failure rate of the vaccine and the unique transmissibility of the measles virus, the currently available measles vaccine, used in a single-dose strategy, is unlikely to completely eliminate measles.

                  The long-term success of a two-dose strategy to eliminate measles remains to be determined.

                  MMR is now considered a 3 dose vaccine, because the 2 dose recommendation is failing.

                  https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/188c/7776c60f21b4b9a6dfbbe65ed5f29e3821a1.pdf

                  Herd Immunity and Immunization Policy: The Importance of Accuracy

                  • greywarshark …
                    26 April 2019 at 3:55 pm

                    My conclusion One Two is that you are killing us with statistics as your authority. Statistics relying on statistics and each repetition weakens the brain, yours, because someone died, and ours because …

                    • One Two …
                      26 April 2019 at 4:02 pm

                      Speak only for yourself, gw..

                      And don't be projecting your lack of understanding towards my commentary…

                      You don't get it…that's fine…

                    • New view …
                      26 April 2019 at 9:42 pm

                      You get it she doesn’t. She believes everything on the internet she wants to believe. She’ll quote stuff that’s been disproved and come from like minded people who refuse to believe the information put forward by every government in the world. She’s a flat earther that will live on the back of all those around her that are vaccinated. But worst of all like the modern terrorist she spreads her unsubstantiated information like poison for others to take. She is entitled to her opinion but not to preach her miss information which does irreparable harm to others.

                  • higherstandard …
                    26 April 2019 at 5:12 pm

                    MMR in two doses as per recommendation protects around 99% of persons who are vaccinated.

                    Once again what point are you trying to make posting that paper from 1994 ?

                    • Fran …
                      26 April 2019 at 5:46 pm

                      Actually, we don't really know how many people MMR or any other vaccine truly protects because we only count how many vaccines are given not if they are effective. You may have had two MMR vaccines but still not have any immunity, unless you are tested you will never know. Officially all vaccines have a failure rate, it varies from vaccine to vaccine but none of them claim 99% efficacy.

                      Part of the problem is that none of the vaccines currently on the schedule have been through true double blind testing which means there are a lot of unanswered questions.

                    • Rosemary McDonald …
                      26 April 2019 at 5:56 pm

                      The mumps component is 88% effective after 2 doses, and even then…

                      " Mumps outbreaks can still occur in highly vaccinated U.S. communities, particularly in settings where people have close, prolonged contact, such as universities and close-knit communities. During an outbreak, public health authorities may recommend an additional dose of MMR for people who belong to groups at increased risk for mumps. An additional dose can help improve protection against mumps disease and related complications. "

                      (dated March 2019)

                      https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html

                      Lots of "mays" and "cans"….this is not an exact science.

                      However….to address OneTwo's original comment regarding the veracity of the 'adverse events' register at the FDA????

                      Many vaccines are being tested by being administered to large populations…too many adverse events and the vaccine will be pulled…maybe, eventually, if our children are lucky.

                      And more importantly if the adverse event was actually reported and investigated…

                      https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/165/6/704/63700

                      " Subsequent epidemiologic studies using laboratory- and hospital-identified cases of aseptic meningitis linked to MMR vaccination records established that the true risk of MMR-associated aseptic meningitis was substantially higher than previously thought (∼1 in 10,000–15,000 doses) and was exclusively related to the Urabe mumps strain in the vaccine (4–6). Furthermore, there was an increased risk of hospital admission for febrile convulsion 15–35 days after receipt of a Urabe-containing MMR vaccine (an attributable risk of approximately 1 in 1,500 doses), indicating that the real risk of acute neurologic consequences from the Urabe mumps component of MMR was underestimated when using case ascertainment methods that were reliant on laboratory investigations (5).

                      Edit….what is euphemistically called ‘vaccine hesitancy’ could have been largely avoided had shit like this not been covered up. Parents noticed neurologic changes in their children after the MMR and were told that there was no causal relationship and the fever and meningitis were coincidental. These (mostly) mothers were treated like simpletons. It is a wonder that the vaccination rates are as high as they are. Most of us, despite ‘knowing’ there was a problem with MMR went on and vaccinated our children for other diseases.

                    • One Two …
                      26 April 2019 at 6:30 pm

                      Have you any idea how old the MMR vaccine is?

                      MMR has never been tested against an inert placebo control group…ever…99% is an absolute fabrication…

                      Having had 100% of liability removed from the manufacturers in 1986 , the motivation to improve vaccine safety was gone when legal liability was 100% transferred to the US taxpayers…

                      The motivation to introduce more vaccines without the headache of regulatory rigour was greatly increased…so the liability free vaccine manufacturers set about expanding the CDC vaccine schedule…

                      Taxpayers also fund the DOJ lawyers to defend the vaccine manufacturers under the NVICP against children who have been damaged for killed by vaccines…

                      Taxpayers also fund the 75 cents per vaccine dose which provides funding of NVICP payouts (currently over $4bn) via the largest purchaser of vaccines in the western world…the taxpayer funded CDC…

                      Vaccine science…the antithesis of science.

              • greywarshark …
                26 April 2019 at 7:52 pm

                The above vein requires letting. Please moderator can tiresome people with their sanctimonious messages be outed for a while and give us a break. I really despise the way that they push people here with a flood of spurious information to irritation and beyond, and then go all superior when it prompts a caution. They should be cautioned together, and that would solve the problem. Cooling off time for the endless wa….rs. I have given up following their endless barrage.

                • Rosemary McDonald …
                  26 April 2019 at 8:15 pm

                  Spurious?

                  Prove it.

                  Prove that there were no issues at all with the early MMR vaccine containing the Urabe strain of mumps.

                  And provide an actual argument to refute my assertion that a lack of honesty and transparency from our health officials over vaccine adverse events have caused the mistrust that leads to the very small number of people who refuse all vaccines.

                  Demanding that people whose interests and knowledge do not coincide with your own are banned smacks of….?

                  • One Two …
                    26 April 2019 at 8:40 pm

                    Rosemary, I believe that comment from gw was aimed at me…

                    It has been an unfortunate regression to observe gw's commentary decline in recent times…

                    When at his best he is one of the very best around this blog site…

                    I asked him a week or two ago if he was ok…didn't get a response…

                    That comment indicates he may not be very well…hopefully that is not the case…

    • Rosemary McDonald 16.2
      26 April 2019 at 2:35 pm

      They're legislating for forced medical treatment, FFS.

      What you're looking at there is people exercising their democratic right to participate actively in politics.

      If this were about say, climate change, would you have problems with them bringing the kids along?

      • One Two 16.2.1
        26 April 2019 at 2:50 pm

        SB277

        California already has Rosemary, and there are currently bills passing through numerous states , every single one authored by the pharmaceutical industry seeking to remove the fundamental right of bodily autonomy, and seek to force mandate the remaining few % of children in the USA who are not currently vaccinated…

        And these same folks, including those here who shout out about herd immunity (which is a mathematical theory plagiarized from naturally occurring immunity), are now admitting that theory is complete fallacy, while now, the perverse irony is that the so called immuno compromised…would also losing their exempt status by also being force vaccinated…

        There public banning of unvaccinated under 18’s in Rockland country was over turned by a supreme court judge… and so will any further judgement…

        Meanwhile Merck are 8 years into fighting to prevent the alleged fabrication of efficacy statistics of the mumps component of the MMR vaccine…while a 100% fully vaccinated population on an America Naval vessel is unable to port, because of….mumps…

        J90 et al are seemingly completely unaware of they're rallying in favour of…

        • Rosemary McDonald 16.2.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 3:05 pm

          Question.

          Why is it that one cannot get an English Measles only vaccine?

          You used to, until the early-mid eighties, then that option was off the table.

          Despite the issues with MMR… that we now know to be likely caused by the Urabe strain of mumps?

          • One Two 16.2.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 3:20 pm

            The official line is to make it more efficient to vaccinate higher percentages of naive immune systems in a single visit…

            In commercial reality it will be about cost reductions

            Japan (‘strongest health outcomes on earth’, and no mandatory vaccinations) for example has individual (measles, mumps and Rubella) vaccines resulting from the well documented historical issues within their population resulting from the MMR vaccine…

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4300546/

            A Review of Factors Affecting Vaccine Preventable Disease in Japan

            Note the mumps stats in the table (‘japan’ believes that mumps is less dangerous than the MMR vaccine) and in using ‘vaccine preventable disease VPD’ as a measure of a nations health…completely warps the metrics versus USA table…

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8053748

            Failure to reach the goal of measles elimination. Apparent paradox of measles infections in immunized persons. – PubMed – NCBI

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3483914/

            Pharmaceutical Companies’ Role in State Vaccination Policymaking: The Case of Human Papillomavirus Vaccination

  17. Morrissey 17
    26 April 2019 at 3:39 pm

    How come the BBC has nobody as capable as this young man?

  18. greywarshark 18
    26 April 2019 at 3:47 pm

    Shirley Smith legal counsel to many low-payers, partner to Bill Sutch, whose life seems opaque to me.

    This review of her biography is good and the book sounds enormously interesting.http://books.scoop.co.nz/2019/04/24/woman-in-law/

    Shirley Smith: an examined life
    by Sarah Gaitanos (Victoria University Press, $40). 464 pages.

    Reviewed by Simon Nathan

    This new biography of Shirley Smith (1916-2007) is an example of an unusual life, skilfully narrated by Sarah Gaitanos.

    Although she showed an early interest in studying law, this was vetoed by her father, who felt that it was no profession for a woman. Instead she studied classics at Oxford in the late 1930s. Her social conscience was aroused by the gathering political storms in Europe, and she joined the Communist Party. The atmosphere of the times is nicely evoked by the recent movie, “Red Joan”. In later years Shirley confided that she was so thankful that she was at Oxford rather than Cambridge, where she might have been recruited as a potential spy.

  19. Observer Tokoroa 19
    26 April 2019 at 7:05 pm

    When the story is written, the Greedy Nationals will come out as utter Trash.

    The sad thing about the Trolls is that they club together to ensure that they will never have to do anything for the welfare of New Zealanders.

    They will continue to abuse decent people in Aotearoa – but they will never lift a finger to assist the rebuilding of a stable, proud Population.

    Why? Because, Billy English, and Mrs Bennett declared there was no crisis of poverty or housing or income within New Zealand. They got voted out on their asses. Inspiteof offering the Wealthy generous bribes.

    The upcoming generation will despise National and count them as imbeciles.

    • BM 19.1
      26 April 2019 at 7:24 pm

      Go get help.

      • McFlock 19.1.1
        26 April 2019 at 7:31 pm

        OT seemed firm but fair in that comment.

        • BM 19.1.1.1
          26 April 2019 at 7:33 pm

          Fuck off, you clown.

          • McFlock 19.1.1.1.1
            26 April 2019 at 8:42 pm

            To be fair, in a hundred years I think most if not all our governments over the last 35 years will be regarded in the same light as Forbes&Coates. But some definitely worse than others.

          • marty mars 19.1.1.1.2
            27 April 2019 at 12:41 am

            Does there really need to be a comma in that sentence? Might have even been better as, "Clown, off you fuck." Maybe have to get an exclamation mark going though.

    • Brigid 19.2
      26 April 2019 at 8:17 pm

      When the Story is Written………

      fify

      Unless you prefer

      WHEN THE STORY IS WRITTEN………

    • Stuart Munro. 19.3
      27 April 2019 at 6:03 am

      Forward looking people despise them already.

    • New view 19.4
      27 April 2019 at 6:15 am

      OT. Why do you keep on about National when it’s not the current Government. We all know they lost their way in the last two years before the last election. We also know that they had some pretty big expensive problems to deal with in their time as Government, and we know when The Labour coalition took over there was a healthy bank balance for them to use. So why don’t you and your potty mouth try keeping the current Government honest instead of blathering on about National that haven’t been in Government fo two years. The labour coalition has promised a lot, talked a lot and achieved very little to date.

  20. Eco Maori 20
    29 April 2019 at 8:37 am

    Kia ora The AM Show.

    Flooding in Mozambique the poor country's are feeling the effects of climate change.hope not to many people passed in the floods.

    I say a roster is a important part of a employees condition and the running a organisation the doctors must get conditions that keep them safe and that will attract new doctors . ???????.

    I don't get people who destroy thing for no practical reason the school having a fire.

    The people who work in the justices system have had a lot to sweat about in the last couple of years with the reality of the system being CORRUPT and having unfair effects on brown people it's was a cheap solution to a tricky problem I know that there is a lot of positive effects because of this phenomenon .

    Our sports stars all OUR stars make our country shine brightly

    I say brexit is the big blind stopping every one from seeing the big real problems the Papatuanukue faces YOU SEE Britain still has a major influence on the Papatuanukue seen that's reality Climate change is what is being blinded .

    I say Mark is correct we need to have a campaign to tell slow drivers to be polite and pull over to let the drivers that no the road pass . We also NEED more passing lanes so they can be over taken safely.

    Fleetwood mack is a good band I listen to back in the day

    Ka kite ano welcome back

  21. Eco Maori 21
    29 April 2019 at 10:41 am

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/h4DFXUndvbw

  23. Eco Maori 23
    29 April 2019 at 1:50 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

    https://youtu.be/jZHcuKeau8M

    Kia kaha to all the Extinction Rebellion peaceful protesters

  24. Eco Maori 24
    29 April 2019 at 2:10 pm

    I based my opinion on climate change on facts and the amount of our truth telling scientists who are tell us the facts with no conflict of interest they just have a love for OUR FUTURE generations and the massive weather events that we are getting NOW.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/28/david-attenborough-documentary-climate-anxiety-bbc

    What followed were four months of desperately tracking down and interviewing the people who live on the frontline of climate change. I spoke to scientists who described the so-loud-it-gives-you-whiplash crack of a glacier calving off the Greenland ice shelf. Another told me of the horror he felt when his calculations revealed that the current logging and burning of tropical forests releases more carbon dioxide than our remaining forests could possibly absorb. I read detailed and disturbing death threats sent to climate activists to make them go quiet.

    I listened to people who have lost their homes and heritage to rising sea levels. I watched countless videos of wildfires ripping through suburbia, and cannot forget the little girl’s voice in the background of one shaky mobile phone recording asking her daddy if she was going to catch fire. Still, the most upsetting videos I saw were of politicians and pundits spreading harmful lies, promoting their own interests at the cost of protecting children from climate change Ka kite ano P.S This is OUR reality WHANAU. Links above

  25. Eco Maori 25
    29 April 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Whanau the Australian government has dish up a big mess to our Australian tangata whenua cousin . They have it a lot harder than US tangata whenua O Atoearoa they only got to vote 40 years ago they are treated real badly by some Australians and the Government hence going the for a holiday was allways not on because of the way they treat their tangata whenua. The Australian government should compensate THEM.

    Gavin Ritchie talks to Guardian Australia about the disadvantage faced by Indigenous Australians as part of the Fair Go? series. Ritchie says he was on Newstart and for the past three years he has been on the disability support pension. 'I will always run out of money before my next pay,' he says. 'When I was on Newstart I would pay my rent and I had $320 to last me a fortnight. That's ridiculous'. He says he has trained himself to subsist 'on next to nothing' and recounts the racist abuse he endured as a child. 'Indigenous people anywhere, their rights, their safety, their happiness, I believe, should be of paramount significance to everybody,' he says. 'Billions of dollars have been made in this country in 200 odd years. My people are still chained firmly to the lowest rung in the socioeconomic LADDER Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/video/2019/apr/27/fair-go-gavin-ritchie-on-living-on-next-to-nothing-video

    https://youtu.be/yG9ZX1FS20A

  26. Eco Maori 26
    29 April 2019 at 5:03 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute .

    https://youtu.be/mOFvJVroAJE

    Whanau it's expensive serviving in Australia

  27. Eco Maori 27
    29 April 2019 at 6:42 pm

    Kia ora Newshub.

    Condolences to the Whanau who lost there love in the crash by Ohakuri Road the road are worse in Te tairawhiti.

    I seen a story on stuff about the Australian Airports having problems with their smart gates big problems and big waiting lines.

    , I, its cold in Rotorua at the minute the Tawhirirmate is just going to get stronger because of you know what .

    Come on we already know who is responsible for the mess at stats NZ ational they have no scruples and don't care what carnage they cause.

    Wow that was fast that fire at that Australian gas station lucky no one was badly injured. I remember back in the day the skipper lit a smoke an boom his car mat set a light we all jumped out pull the mat out put it out and carried on our journey it was a 1980 mini lol the fire was no more than burning a4 peace of paper lucky

    Congratulat to Tim for him being houners for his services to Southland.

    That's good that the Pike River familys are going to get some closure on their loved ones lost in the mine explosion on Friday.??????????????????????????.

    Condolences to the American Jewish community and those who lost there love ones in that atrocitie at their Church.

    Mbovies did not have to be as bad as it is. It is sad that the Money going to IHC charity could be reduced because of the mess. Ka kite ano

  28. Eco Maori 28
    30 April 2019 at 8:29 am

    Kia ora Newshub..

    Free speach is a must in a democract society so that the common people can hold the powerful to account for their actions .

    It was cool that The government has got to this stage in the Pike River mine. Yes its all about shonky backing COAL and his bet was WRONG instead of admiting it they decided to cut cost to try and make it work the cost cutting lower the safety standards in the mine operation.

    Its not MAORI fault . Of course its poverty that is the main driver of child negligence its in the textbooks around the world . Maori need to look after Maori as love is need not hate to cure this problem .what no one is talking about is the link to PEE that is causing all the bad stats to rise fast.

    Eco Maori says that ational deliberately through a curved ball to statistics NZ WHY all the latest stats would have been used to prove that shonky and national gave the wealthy a lolly scramble and the common people got ripped off with I WILL NOT RAISE GST YEA RIGHT. shonky was a control freak there are many things that point to that.

    The Papatuanukue largest Ice shelves are melting 10 x faster that what our good scientists pridicted our lives have to change fast to beat climate change. The money people have to look at climate change as a opportunity to make money mitigateing this problem .

    Kai pal Sir Tim classic Kiwi bloke get through all the bullshit to get smart solutions to fix simple problems .

    I say all councils should have a place to drop off goods that can be given a new life that's the new fad going around Europe at the minute taking pride in having reused goods that is a FAD we need here recycling is COOL to save Papatuanukue .

    Ka kite ano

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