Open mike 26/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 26th, 2013 - 153 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

153 comments on “Open mike 26/07/2013 ”

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  1. North 1
    26 July 2013 at 6:37 am

    Weasel words from Granny Herald:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10903287

    Extraordinary is it not ?

    Granny Herald’s poacher turned gamekeeper ShonKey Python is to be permitted LEGALLY to enlist all the other poachers……..Granny incredulously paints her darling as gamekeeper redoubled.

    • tc 1.1
      26 July 2013 at 6:59 am

      Ah yes another of those unsigned editorials, probably authored by the pm’s office or CT etc

      This whole GSCB farce shows how pissweak our media is, that Dunne is keys lackey and what contempt shonkey and crew have for democracy and yet anotger pack of lies he will skate away from . So nothing new really.

      Isnt it great when you can just change the laws to suit your own agenda what a banana republic weve become.

    • Jenny 1.2
      26 July 2013 at 7:05 am

      My God! David Shearer and Peter Dunne are in agreement.

      From the Herald:

      The changes go much further than the “cosmetic” tag attached by the Greens. Two stand out. The first dictates that the country’s foreign intelligence agency will be the subject of an independent review in 2015 and an automatic review every five to seven years after that. A five-year review echoes the situation in Australia.

      What wasn’t captured on the audio of the live footage, is that after David Cunliffe says; “And based upon what we have heard here tonight. I personally, and I am sure my caucus colleagues would be of the view that this legislation, must not, will not, and cannot stand.”

      David Shearer corrects Cunliffe, (and others). Angrilly shouting out, “We will be having a review.”

      (Maybe someone could enhance the audio to catch this exchange?)

      http://thestandard.org.nz/gcsb-protests/#comment-668394

      • Santi 1.2.1
        26 July 2013 at 7:49 am

        David S. is the voice of reason. The Leader is right in saying “we will be having a review”.

      • Te Reo Putake 1.2.2
        26 July 2013 at 8:12 am

        “David Shearer corrects Cunliffe, (and others). Angrilly shouting out, “We will be having a review.” ”

        How do you know it was Shearer, Jenny? How do you know he was angry? Why is repeating Cunliffe’s words a correction?

        Nah, I call bullshit.

      • weka 1.2.3
        26 July 2013 at 9:36 am

        I’ve listened to that part of the audio a couple of times and I didn’t pick Shearer as shouting anything. Will have another listen.

        Jenny, can you please link to the Herald article.

        • weka 1.2.3.1
          26 July 2013 at 10:11 am

          What wasn’t captured on the audio of the live footage, is that after David Cunliffe says; “And based upon what we have heard here tonight. I personally, and I am sure my caucus colleagues would be of the view that this legislation, must not, will not, and cannot stand.”

          That is in the live stream. Starts at 1:15:52.

          At 1:16:50 someone does shout out from the side of the hall that Shearer is on, but it’s inaudible because the GP guy has started speaking. And someone was shouting during Cunliffe’s statement (the judge had to ask them to shut up). Were you there Jenny? Are sure it was Shearer? It seems unlikely.

      • karol 1.2.4
        26 July 2013 at 6:22 pm

        Sheaerer denies it – tonight on 3 news where your comment here was quoted – how to spread false rumours…..?

        • gobsmacked 1.2.4.1
          26 July 2013 at 6:38 pm

          And Jenny’s comment was called a “post”. Pathetic.

          So in its entirety, this was … (drum roll) … a story about one person getting something wrong on the internet. And – that’s it.

          Journalism’s a cushy job these days, isn’t? Who needs facts?

          • karol 1.2.4.1.1
            26 July 2013 at 6:46 pm

            Yep. They just like conflict over depth and context. Here is the print version also calling it a post.

            • gobsmacked 1.2.4.1.1.1
              26 July 2013 at 7:01 pm

              I HAD SEX WITH KATE MIDDLETON … 9 months ago!

              (Now check tonight’s TV3 news update … “Doubts cast over Royal Baby”, a solid story based on exactly the same reliable source)

              But it’s beyond parody now, the “news” is in the hands of a lazy hack saying “Friday, let’s knock off work early”. I’d be ashamed if I was working there.

              Worth a complaint to the company?

          • weka 1.2.4.1.2
            26 July 2013 at 7:46 pm

            “a story about one person getting something wrong on the internet”

            No, it was a story about a fucking idiot who should know better shit stirring and yet again undermining the left for her own perverse reasons.

            Jenny, front up with some evidence that Shearer said what you said he did, or apologise to everyone who made that meeting so awesome and didn’t deserve to have it pissed on by the likes of you.

        • Te Reo Putake 1.2.4.2
          26 July 2013 at 7:52 pm

          Jebus! Jenny owes David Shearer an apology, big time. No doubt she’ll be contacting 3News ASAP to put them right. But, lordie, how lazy is Jono Hutchison? What a doofus.

          • karol 1.2.4.2.1
            26 July 2013 at 8:18 pm

            3 News should apologise for cherry picking Jenny’s comment and ignoring all the subsequent comments saying Shearer can’t be heard yelling anything out.

          • mickysavage 1.2.4.2.2
            26 July 2013 at 8:26 pm

            He could have chosen some really insane stuff from the comments here and spun a story about how Labour was basically a bunch of tin foil hat wearers!

            Obviously TV3 needs to be taught the difference between a post and a comment.

          • jaymam 1.2.4.3.1
            27 July 2013 at 2:06 pm

            That video is NOT what I saw on TV3. I vividly remember Shearer saying angrily “There will be a review”. Where’s the video of that?

            • Arfamo 1.2.4.3.1.1
              27 July 2013 at 2:09 pm

              Shouldn’t you be asking TV3 that? I’d like to see it too when you get it. Seems like one of those situations where some people see chemtrails where we see contrails.

              • jaymam …
                27 July 2013 at 3:26 pm

                TV3 video on demand for the evening news on 26 July 2013 does not work. All I get is that damn Dilmah advert.
                Anyway I KNOW what I saw – Shearer being angry.

                • Arfamo …
                  27 July 2013 at 3:32 pm

                  There are people who KNOW they saw the twin towers blown up by explosive demolitions, too. It doesn’t mean they were right.

    • vto 1.3
      26 July 2013 at 9:30 am

      editorials have long since lost their credibility

    • Draco T Bastard 1.4
      26 July 2013 at 12:13 pm

      Ah, the NZHerald doing it’s best to tell us that this National Party dictatorship is good for us.

  2. North 2
    26 July 2013 at 7:26 am

    Last night at the Mt Albert War Memorial Hall we saw something I have long prayed for……….public figures of impeccable provenance like retired Supreme Court judge Sir Ted Thomas QC and Dame Anne Salmond – going public in the face of the chicanery of “Bananas” ShonKey Python.

    With every such instance ShonKey Python’s facile “I disagree” becomes more and more risible.

    Which leads us to the live “Loyalty” question New Zealanders must address.

    Is ShonKey Python truly a “Loyal” New Zealander ?

    We know he’s “Royal” but is he “Loyal” ?

    • muzza 2.1
      26 July 2013 at 8:32 am

      It’s long past time, these “high level NZ’ers”, begin to maike themselves highly visible, so it’s great to see it seems to be happening.

      Key is not the NZ’er, he is a globalist!

    • chrissy 2.2
      26 July 2013 at 8:33 am

      North
      I don’t believe key is a New Zealander at all. He was only born here. His family have no Kiwi history at all. His parents weren’t born here. I have no idea why he wanted to be pm of NZ but it certainly doesn’t appear to be for the good of the country. Can’t wait to see him go.

      • geoff 2.2.1
        26 July 2013 at 9:16 am

        I agree.
        He’s so adept at concealing and lying that it is impossible to tell what his true motivations are.
        He’s the ultimate hollow man.
        It will be interesting to watch what he does after he leaves politics (hopefully soon!).

      • Winston Smith 2.2.2
        26 July 2013 at 10:23 am

        So you think any child born of immigrants aren’t NZers, well you can fuck right off with your bullshit and go join NZfirst

    • David H 2.3
      26 July 2013 at 9:19 am

      Yeah Shonkey is Loyal.

      He’s Loyal to the Almighty Dollar.
      He’s Loyal to the USA.
      He’s Loyal to his Hollywood mates.
      He’s Loyal to the rich listers.

      And he is DISLOYAL to the hard working Kiwi who’s just trying to get ahead!

    • weka 2.4
      26 July 2013 at 9:58 am

      “Last night at the Mt Albert War Memorial Hall we saw something I have long prayed for……….public figures of impeccable provenance like retired Supreme Court judge Sir Ted Thomas QC and Dame Anne Salmond – going public in the face of the chicanery of “Bananas” ShonKey Python.”

      It was a joy to behold. Why is this not happening more?

      • Jenny 2.4.1
        30 July 2013 at 3:00 am

        Because we have second rate parachutists posing as politicians keeping the talented and principled out.

  3. Morrissey 3
    26 July 2013 at 8:43 am

    Mediocrity Watch
    No. 3: JEREMY WELLS

    “What evidence is there that secondhand smoking does any harm? Where is the evidence? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? The science is flimsy.”
    —Jeremy (Newsboy) Wells, “The Week in Review”, NewstalkZB, Friday 26 July 2013, 8:25 a.m.

    Mediocrity Watch aims to keep you informed of—or, to quote the epically mediocre Simon Dallow, to be “right across”—the shoddiest, least professional, most insulting journalism from all over the world, but especially New Zealand. It is produced by DeakerWatch®, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.

    Check out these other third-raters….
    No. 2 Gavin Gray: “…never been any problems associated with the name King George.”
    No. 1 Susie Ferguson: “If, as you say, this has all been done before, why do it all again?”

    • Santi 3.1
      26 July 2013 at 8:53 am

      Morrissey, I look forward to a future note of yours dedicated to the epically moaning, whinging, and mediocre Kim Hill. Keep up the good work.

      • Morrissey 3.1.1
        26 July 2013 at 9:18 am

        Morrissey, I look forward to a future note of yours dedicated to the epically moaning, whinging, and mediocre Kim Hill.
        I have strongly criticized Kim Hill in the past. I thought she was foolish and unprepared when she interviewed John Pilger on television a decade ago; he memorably castigated her for reflexively and thoughtlessly rehashing the most extreme government propaganda….
        http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/face-to-face-with-kim-hill-john-pilger-2003

        She is also given to occasionally making glib and foolish statements. “Just read one Chomsky book and you don’t have to read any others. They’re all the same,” she joked one day on her radio programme. Now I know, and you know, that is not true, and she is not that stupid or lazy; that’s the sort of thing that “Sir” Paul Holmes (RIP) or Graeme Hunt (RIP) or Mike Hosking or “Populuxe1” would have said. But she said it, and even as a joke it is a foolish and ridiculous thing to say.

        But, on the other hand, you have to recognize that, since the retirement of Ian Fraser, Kim Hill is by far this country’s best interviewer. For sheer breadth of knowledge, and persistence, and verbal ability, she is in a class of her own. She has memorably exposed villains such as Jeffrey Archer, William Shawcross, and John Howard. Perhaps the best thing she ever did was when she subjected Dr. Brian Edwards to a dose of his own medicine and made him squirm uncomfortably for half an hour in an interview that might have qualified as a war crime if poor old Edwards had recovered from the shock and humiliation in time to file a charge at The Hague.

        She can be annoying, I grant you, Santi—but if you’re looking for the fourth rate, the mediocre, the substandard, the useless, then you look at people like Jeremy Wells and his interlocutors on “The Week In Review” this morning—Wendyl Nissen and Susan Wood. And practically everyone else on that appalling station.

        Even if you, like me, can’t stand her at times, you have to admit that Kim Hill is far, far superior to most others on radio. Hell, she even reads my emails out occasionally!

        Keep up the good work.
        Thank you, my friend! I always enjoy your contributions.

    • geoff 3.2
      26 July 2013 at 9:17 am

      Possible that Wells was taking the piss?

      • Morrissey 3.2.1
        26 July 2013 at 9:22 am

        Possible that Wells was taking the piss?

        He probably was. But I am sick of so-called “ironists” trying to be funny. The guy should be stating his opinions frankly and honestly. I realize that that programme—that station—-is not serious, and is trying to “entertain” at all times, but whether or not Jeremy Wells was serious, he did say those words in an ostensibly (if not actually) serious discussion.

    • Winston Smith 4.1
      26 July 2013 at 10:26 am

      Gee another Harawira in court, theres a big surprise…integrity nope just more posturing and grandstanding

      • vto 4.1.1
        26 July 2013 at 10:59 am

        The lack of integrity lies behind you WS, trying looking around fool.

      • Santi 4.1.2
        26 July 2013 at 11:29 am

        The Harawhiras are a big family of crooks and thugs. No brains, just brawn. Nothing else.

        • marty mars 4.1.2.1
          26 July 2013 at 2:37 pm

          Oh santi what a load of rubbish – sure they are a big family but they have a lot of brains as well as brawn as shown by Hone leading the poised Mana Party – poised to make a real difference after the next election. On the other hand you are a proven liar and idiot and you display a distinct lack of brains, almost zombie like in your repetition of rubbish – that shows what a sad piece of shit you are.

          • Winston Smith 4.1.2.1.1
            26 July 2013 at 3:03 pm

            what difference is Hone going to make after the next election? Oh right you think Labour, Greens, NZfirst and Mana will form a grand coilition

            Good luck with that

            • marty mars 4.1.2.1.1.1
              26 July 2013 at 4:13 pm

              No I don’t think that. More chance of the gnats and labour forming that – The Greens and NZFirst won’t work imo at least not in the way your comment implies.

            • bad12 4.1.2.1.1.2
              26 July 2013 at 4:34 pm

              What difference???, fools like you never see it coming until it’s far to late, there is no guarantee that NZFirst will gain the 5% needed to get back into the next Parliament,

              Winston is way past His best and the years of fine living are starting to take their toll,

              The Mana Party based upon the 2011 election result need a mere 1894 votes to take the Waiariki electorate and based upon Mana’s polling in the recent by-election will romp home in that seat with ease,

              Roy Morgan is now polling the Mana Party at 1% of the party vote and a mere 1.2%,(a few thousand votes),and Mana will have another MP in the next Parliament off of it’s list,

              Hone Harawira on His own in the 2015 Parliament might not make much difference, 3 Mana Party MP’s in that Parliament will make all the difference…

    • bad12 4.2
      26 July 2013 at 10:42 am

      Civil disobedience, as displayed by Hone Harawira in support of the Glen Innes HousingNZ tenants being evicted by the state to make way for the grandiose palaces of the middle class has long been a feature of political movements everywhere,

      Without civil disobedience we would have neither ‘women voting’, ‘nuke free NZ’ or ‘non-racist rugby tours’, to name 3 issues that spring to mind,

      Big Ups to Hone for supporting those who have no other voice, i hope to see 2 more Mana Party MP’s in the 2014 Parliament and with Mana polling 1% of the party vote a list MP is only a few thousand party votes for Mana away,

      Point 2 percent is all it will take and this far out from November 2014 it’s looking more certain that Mana will get my party vote…

      • weka 4.2.1
        26 July 2013 at 11:26 am

        +1

      • Chris 4.2.2
        26 July 2013 at 1:41 pm

        I agree with you, but we wouldn’t have non-racist rugby tours without civil disobedience? Was it NZRFU policy to only have racist tours before then?

        • Te Reo Putake 4.2.2.1
          26 July 2013 at 2:11 pm

          Yes, when it came to South Africa. We also allowed them to limit our selections for tours to RSA to white only players, with one or two ‘honorary whites’ to fill out the squad. English cricket took a principled stand against this in 1968 over Basil D’Oliveira being refused entry to apartheid South Africa, but the All Black squad that toured the following year was selected on racial lines to keep the hosts happy.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Oliveira_affair

          • bad12 4.2.2.1.1
            26 July 2013 at 2:31 pm

            During that period it was also the policy of the South African rugby union to select players to tour New Zealand on the basis that those selected were white…

          • Chris 4.2.2.1.2
            26 July 2013 at 3:19 pm

            I know that I was being slightly facetious in that it seems strange to take credit for it to be the only reason we have non-racist tours of Australia and the home nations.

            • Te Reo Putake 4.2.2.1.2.1
              26 July 2013 at 3:27 pm

              That isn’t what the credit is being claimed for. It was specific to RSA rugby tours.

    • Dave 4.3
      26 July 2013 at 11:23 am

      Do you have anything to add apart from just one line? Political integrity in NZ has slipped by a huge degree, across the board. The fact he was there standing up for someone else’s constituents, who needed that support speaks to me that his integrity is far superior to a lot of other pollies. Whether you agree with his stand or not, you must admire the fact he made a stand! But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of your prejudice. Numpty.

      • Molly 4.3.1
        27 July 2013 at 3:21 am

        Sorry, heading out the door when I wrote it and left it brief. Obviously too much so – was admiring his stand for the people of Glen Innes – not being facetious.

  6. Alcibiades 6
    26 July 2013 at 10:25 am

    The thing that caught my attention was Key’s comment that
    “we can afford another earthquake”. Run that past us again, John ?

    According to current knowledge an earthquake “is the result of a sudden release of energy in the Earth’s crust that creates seismic waves” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake

    I don’t see that we have much choice in the matter. According to a recent Australian PM, “s**t happens”. The ancients used to call it fate. However you frame it, you pick up the pieces and carry on.

    Key’s implication that we have some choice in earthquake affordability is either a symptom of grandiosity or a non-scientific belief system. It may be a poor choice of words, but it does not engender confidence in his crisis management skills.

    • Winston Smith 6.1
      26 July 2013 at 10:29 am

      I’m guessing he means if another major earthquake it NZ will be able to handle it but hey if you want to link it to something else entirely go right ahead

    • weka 6.2
      26 July 2013 at 10:34 am

      Alcibiades, without seeing the comment in context (got a link?), it’s hard to say what he meant (and he’s probably being slippery anyway). But I’m guessing he means we can afford to rebuild. Which we can’t if it’s a big quake in somewhere like Welly.

      • Alcibiades 6.2.1
        26 July 2013 at 10:54 am

        It was a press conference I saw on TV1 before he left for another trip abroad. I would not describe it as ‘slippery’, but certainly an unfortunate choice of words. It implies that there has been serious consideration of abandoning Wellington in a worst case scenario .. as though Aotearoa / New Zealand starts somewhere north of the Bombay hills.

      • bad12 6.2.2
        26 July 2013 at 10:54 am

        Oh Slippery will just ‘write a cheque’, which is what He told the news-media when they asked our Prime Minister how the 2nd crossing of the Auckland harbor would be paid for,

        The fact that none of the media pilloried the Slippery little liar over such glib bull-s**t has become par for the course and hardly reflects the fourth estate in any shade of ‘a good light,

        Might as well rename the whole pack as the Fifth Column…

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3
      26 July 2013 at 12:50 pm

      Key’s implication that we have some choice in earthquake affordability is either a symptom of grandiosity or a non-scientific belief system.

      It’s the delusional belief, held by politicians, economists and rich people, that money is a resource.

    • Murray Olsen 6.4
      27 July 2013 at 12:05 am

      Abbott has never been Australian PM, recently or otherwise. If he does get elected, it will be real proof that shit happens.

  7. David H 7
    26 July 2013 at 10:39 am

    Well if this is true. then 1984 and Minority Report is on it’s way, and this time it’s for real.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Predicting-crime-before-it-happens/tabid/1771/articleID/306188/Default.aspx
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report_%28film%29
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

    Seems the GCSB is not well written because new software like this has major repercussions for ordinary New Zealanders.

    • muzza 7.1
      26 July 2013 at 12:09 pm

      It’s a long held objective by the so called ruling elite, that every action/interaction will be monitored and controlled, this is not conspiracy, it is already happening.

      The technology has existed long enough, and the legislative clamp down currently making the public view, is the only insight the plebs will get to see. The back end is not going to be exposed to the plebs!

      Once the plug is pulled on cash money, and every transaction handled virtually, then the loop is closed, and the final remnants of what people believed, were freedoms, will be lost and gone, forever!

      Until people realize the danger their lives are in, there is almost 0% chance to prevent it, that time was past last century.

      So while many of those who have been ignorantly fighting to label such happenings, as conspiracy, they have been missing opportunity to engage, and aim their energy at the appropriate location.

      It’s why quite simply, so called conspiracy theorists, are not a danger, they are in fact an early warning system, in many cases, a desperate call to action.

      The best places to be in years to come, are 3rd world and developing countries, with nations such as NZ, finished. It is my supposition, that NZ will be the first nation, to fall!

      One could argue, the fall, has already happened, without a fight!

      • weka 7.1.1
        26 July 2013 at 12:18 pm

        That’s dismal muzza. I think you will find that many in NZ have been thinking about this, including how to communicate without using electronics. The best hope for NZ in the face of PO/AGW/GFC is to relocalise. This applies in the face of the surveillance society too.

        If cash gets done away with, people will set up alternate economic systems. Already happening, alongside barter and trade. It won’t take so much to get those things scaled up to the community level.

        • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1
          26 July 2013 at 1:23 pm

          Already happening, alongside barter and trade.

          And you still have to pay tax on them.

          • weka 7.1.1.1.1
            26 July 2013 at 4:50 pm

            Only if you are trading in something that would otherwise bring you your main income. Someone who is a mechanic should technically declare alternate income if they trade their mechanical skills, but not if they’re baby sitting. Haven’t seen an analysis of how many people do actually declare though.

            People don’t have to pay tax on swapping veges across the back fence.

            • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.1.1
              26 July 2013 at 10:03 pm

              Sooner or later IRD and the government will come down hard on the bartering system because people are using it to avoid taxes and there won’t any bartering left. I read an article last year about IRD looking at it.

              Also, if your income disappears and it turns out that you’re doing odd jobs for barter it’s going to look like that is your main income at which point IRD will give you a tax bill.

              • felix …
                26 July 2013 at 10:11 pm

                Interesting. So does the IRD have the legal capacity to collect vegetables?

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  26 July 2013 at 10:19 pm

                  /shrug

                  I do believe that they can ascertain market value and tax you on that though.

                  • weka …
                    26 July 2013 at 10:32 pm

                    AFAIK they’re after people that are avoiding paying tax on what would otherwise be main income (and fair enough too). They don’t care about vege swaps and such. If someone is self-employed and their income drops suddenly for no obvious reason, then it makes sense of IRD to have a look. I doubt that they will be going after teens mowing lawns for their grandparents though. Where the line in between is, I’m not sure but I think the govt will have its hands full going after the main income tax avoiders.

                    As for coming down hard on barter and trade, the vast majority happens outside of spheres that the govt can see. That will never change, I expect it to increase.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      26 July 2013 at 10:38 pm

                      And what you and muzza were talking about was getting completely out of the monetary system which would bring the government down on you. As I say, the lack of paying taxes would raise flags.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      27 July 2013 at 12:28 am

                      Sorry Draco, what do you think the IRD is going to do? Come down on you or your neighbour when you volunteer to look after the neighbours kids one day a week?

                      Let’s see how long that government lasts.

                    • felix …
                      27 July 2013 at 9:21 am

                      Raise flags, sure.

                      But what are they going to do, take 20% of my potatoes and 20% of my neighbour’s grapefruit?

                      For the sake of argument, let’s try applying the “assume market rates” model.

                      My neighbour and I aren’t paying each other a vege salary or fruit wages, so paye doesn’t apply. If anything the relationship is between two food-producing businesses, neither of which make any profit.

                      So what “income” would they be taxing, exactly?

                    • weka …
                      27 July 2013 at 3:54 pm

                      x kg potatoes =$y. That’s income and can be taxed (theoretically). I’m guessing at the self-employed rate.

                      There are two things in this discussion. One is that IRD (and WINZ incidentally) do consider barter/trade form one’s main job to be income. However, there are obviously many people in NZ who earn some or a lot of cash income under the table, and IRD is largely powerless against that, so it’s hard to see IRD going after the people trading unless they are being very obvious about it.

                      The second thing is low level barter/trade eg veges over the back fence, or trading services for goods etc. Can’t see IRD caring about that.

                      I think that green dollar systems etc got targeted by IRD when professionals and tradies started doing business and not declaring it. AFAIK timebanks are still exempt, but not sure how long that will last (the loophole is that all time trades are equal, rather than being assigned a money equivalent value. So a lawyer’s hour is worth the same as a cleaner’s hour. Not sure that IRD could argue income as dollar value there).

                    • felix …
                      28 July 2013 at 11:24 pm

                      You’ve missed my point, weka.

                      Business income is taxed on profit, not turnover.

                      Neither my neighbour nor I are left with any profit after the transaction. There are no potatoes to tax as they’ve been used to buy grapefruit and vise-versa.

        • muzza 7.1.1.2
          26 July 2013 at 3:22 pm

          Hi Weka,

          I know from past comment that you’re actively involved in the initiatives at a local level, which is definately the way to go.

          Should have added, local/rural NZ, its the cities which are going to take the hardest hit.

          Keep updates coming as to the systems that you’re involved with, its always nice to hear, what will unlikely be ready in the MSM.

          Have a good weekend.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.3
          27 July 2013 at 12:32 am

          If cash gets done away with, people will set up alternate economic systems. Already happening, alongside barter and trade. It won’t take so much to get those things scaled up to the community level.

          Amongst the most trusted networks, the gift economy is going to take off. Barter is boring, slow and inflexible in comparison.

          I’m also on the look out for the appearance of community currencies and time banks.

          • Rosetinted 7.1.1.3.1
            28 July 2013 at 11:47 pm

            CV
            Thoughts –
            What’s the gift society actually? Have you a link that talks about this and time banks and runs through community currency methods.

            We do need taxes to provide public services. Including police and army.

            Many people don’t understand exactly how community systems work. Let people who haven’t clear rules and explanations get control and they serve up a mash of things they have learned in the mainstream currency and ideas where some system worked in some location at some time, and you have unproved theories running a system that will eventually become unhinged.

            Only a thought out system with rules that cover everything will work. And not be run by committees otherwise you just get new people with scrambled ideas that will unravel the working system, or fiddle with it till its so weak it will fall over.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2
        26 July 2013 at 1:11 pm

        Nothing wrong with a cashless society – just so long as the banking system has been pulled out of the banks control.

        • Colonial Viper 7.1.2.1
          27 July 2013 at 12:33 am

          You love making systems more fragile don’t you. What is up with that?

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2.1.1
            27 July 2013 at 1:43 am

            One way or another we need to account for the resources we use against the resources we have. Both muzza, Weka and now you are suggesting that we don’t and that path must result in the collapse of society because we will run out of resources.

            • weka 7.1.2.1.1.1
              29 July 2013 at 12:42 am

              “One way or another we need to account for the resources we use against the resources we have. Both muzza, Weka and now you are suggesting that we don’t”

              I’m not suggesting that. I think much should be devolved to the local level, because in a post-carbon world it’s the resources in your landbase that matter. Locals should be ‘accounting’ for what happens in their rohe. But not entirely, I still see a role for govt in that too.

              “and that path must result in the collapse of society because we will run out of resources.”

              If you think that’s what I’ve been suggesting all this time then you’ve misunderstood. My argument is actually the opposite. But I don’t believe that governments will make the changes necessary to work within our natural limits until something forces them to do so (eg collapse).

      • marty mars 7.1.3
        26 July 2013 at 2:46 pm

        “The best places to be in years to come, are 3rd world and developing countries, with nations such as NZ, finished.”

        Your logic is flawed mate – remember you said that rudd was correct and that Australia should look after aussies and that some people will die and that is just too bad – under your scenario YOU will die and are you telling me (if you actually believe what you write) that you won’t seek out a 3rd world country to try to live in? Why should they let you in when you wouldn’t let them in? It seems to me that you have given up, well some of us haven’t given up and we will fight to retain the values we believe in.

        • muzza 7.1.3.1
          26 July 2013 at 3:32 pm

          Hey Marty,

          Rudds decision was the right one for mine, but that does not imply that those inside Australian boarders are going to have an easy time, or gain anything from the decision, far from it I suspect.

          You managed to conflate a couple of points, but thats more down to me not expressing myself fully on this digital medium.

          I think its a different view here in AKL, Marty. While no doubt there is great things happening up and around here, I would think that its the smaller centers, and rural NZ, where the action is happening, such as doen your way.

          I’ve not given up, but I am growing tired of waiting for the penny to drop far enough, with some more of the folk up here, such that they visibly express their distaste at whats going on in NZ, and get on with claiming back, what is being taken away!

          There are some encouraging signs like the meeting last night, and some activities tomorrow, from all accounts.

          Have a good weekend, Marty.

    • Bearded Git 8.1
      26 July 2013 at 12:05 pm

      Seems to me it’s bad news for your Conservative mates.

      • Winston Smith 8.1.1
        26 July 2013 at 1:25 pm

        Well no because its the left that break the electoral laws more than the left

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      26 July 2013 at 1:25 pm

      I’m with Bearded Git on this, law changes like Collins is talking about will hurt the right more.

      • Winston Smith 8.2.1
        26 July 2013 at 1:26 pm

        You are quite short sighted, why do you think Collins is doing this?

        • Pascal's bookie 8.2.1.1
          26 July 2013 at 2:13 pm

          Because Colin Craig takes her votes; she wants national to be the sort of party that would be supported by the people who would vote for the Conservatives. If the Conservatives survive, National will become less like Collins and more like Joyce.

          Also, she’s an idiot who lives in a bubble.

        • McFlock 8.2.1.2
          26 July 2013 at 4:15 pm

          Collins thinks that she needs to do this now, in case national get kicked out next term? Butbutbut I thought the nats were going to be a four-term government…

  9. Adrian 9
    26 July 2013 at 11:57 am

    I was and still am a Cuniliffe supporter but if Shearer is the Leader I believe that we have to get in behind him, but I must admit it is bloody frustrating. This morning on Natrad Shearer said about GCS Bill.
    ” We do not think that this is good policy.”
    Oh for fucks sake, while Shearer has to take responsibility for what he says it must be fucking useless advisors that are not doing the job. It should have been “We in the Labour party think that this is really BAD policy” . Never, never use positive language about policy that you are opposing. If he is resisting training he needs a kick up the arse like Helen got before she was turned into a winner. The only thing in his defence is that the platitudinous language is what you use when dealing with heavily armed arseholes that he used to talk to. But it’s time to drop it and time to start verbally tearing our homegrown arseholes new ones.

  11. Winston Smith 11
    26 July 2013 at 12:03 pm

    “when dealing with heavily armed arseholes that he used to talk to”

    – You mean when he had the backing of the UN military behind him?

    • weka 11.1
      26 July 2013 at 12:35 pm

      Who are you talking to?

      When did it become so hard for people to use the reply button?

    • Adrian 11.2
      26 July 2013 at 2:14 pm

      No, but when some mujahaddin had a gun to his and his wife’s heads in his office in Baghdad ( I think ) and he talked them down and got their particular problem sorted. That was one of the reasons that The Herald called him NZer of the Year. Now they think that NZ’s Bullshitter of the Year is their main man.

  12. Rosetinted 12
    26 July 2013 at 12:06 pm

    1400 tremors, quakes in Cook Strait. It is good news that we still have communications going okay isn’t it? The cables seem to have coped with the movement.

    • Lanthanide 12.1
      26 July 2013 at 12:26 pm

      It’d most likely be the termination points that would be damaged in an earthquake. The cables rest on the seafloor, but they’re basically like a big long rope: put a rope in a bucket and shake the bucket around and the rope will be tossed about but will land on the ground eventually.

  13. Tamati 13
    26 July 2013 at 2:36 pm

    In another lively public meeting last night the SMBA (St Mary’s Bay Association) voted to support in principle a pedestrian and bicycle over the harbour bridge!

    Still a large amout of Nimbyism amongst some of the older members of the SMBA, but great to finally see a change. The leading cycle crossing advocate, Brendan Doherty, was elected to the council.

    An amusing part was when the chair asked members not to discuss the meeting on social media! (Found this out on twitter, the moment he said it!)

    If anyone who lives in St Mary’s Bay or Northcote Point or elsewhere wants to get involved a facebook page has been set up.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/274733862663691/

    This matter is also freqently discussed on the Auckland Transport blog.

  14. Rosetinted 14
    26 July 2013 at 3:51 pm

    I think we have to watch that most of the comments aren’t just refuting these RWNJs that come here. They take up valuable space with under 10% of their opinions being anything other than what a toddler could repeat from listening to a parent, just parroting stuff. There seems to be a crowd of little biting flies at the moment taking pleasure from not adding anything useful but deflecting thought from the important topics.

  15. The Pink Postman 15
    26 July 2013 at 4:18 pm

    The death has been announced of Toshi Seeger 70 years married to the great Peter.
    Socialists and Pacifists /both.

    • Rosetinted 15.1
      27 July 2013 at 7:25 pm

      Here is a very nice photo of Toshi and Pete Seeger. http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/07/11/toshi-seeger-dead-pete-seeger/

      From Rollingstone
      “Without Toshi’s counsel and support, and always outspoken and direct opinions, it’s clear to anyone who ever met these two remarkable people that, without Toshi, Pete would never have had the foundation and freedom to do the work that made him so legendary,” said Sing Out, a magazine she and Seeger helped cofound in 1950.
      She was born in Munich to an American mother and Japanese father, and the family relocated to the U.S. before her first birthday. She grew up in New York, where she met Seeger, and the couple married in 1943 when she was 21.
      Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/toshi-seeger-wife-of-pete-seeger-dead-at-91-20130711#ixzz2aE97hden
      Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

      I recently put up information about McCarthy and his tirade about communism and what a snake he was. Pete Seeger stood up to the bullying anti-democratic tactics then which are not too different in kind than what we face now. They both seem to have been very principled.

      Wikipedia –
      Jim Musselman (founder of Appleseed Recordings), longtime friend and record producer for Pete Seeger:
      He was one of the few people who invoked the First Amendment in front of the House Committee on Un-American Activities (HCUA). Everyone else had said the Fifth Amendment, the right against self-incrimination, and then they were dismissed. What Pete did, and what some other very powerful people who had the guts and the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the committee and say, “I’m gonna invoke the First Amendment, the right of freedom of association….”
      …I was actually in law school when I read the case of United States v. Seeger, and it really changed my life, because I saw the courage of what he had done and what some other people had done by invoking the First Amendment, saying, “We’re all Americans. We can associate with whoever we want to, and it doesn’t matter who we associate with.” That’s what the founding fathers set up democracy to be. So I just really feel it’s an important part of history that people need to remember.

      Here’s a clip of Pete Seeger singing and playing guitar – The big muddy with Pete Seeger

  16. tracey 16
    26 July 2013 at 6:52 pm

    This is why we have to take with a grain of salt anything from the oil industry and their veiled lobbyists

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/8969170/Oil-giant-destroyed-spill-evidence

  17. ak 17
    26 July 2013 at 9:11 pm

    “No one can remain insensitive to the inequalities that persist in the world!”

    “I want a mess. We knew that in Rio there would be great disorder, but I want trouble in the dioceses!”

    “You are often disappointed by facts that speak of corruption on the part of people who put their own interests before the common good,” Francis told the crowd. “To you and all, I repeat: Never yield to discouragement, do not lose trust, do not allow your hope to be extinguished.”

    Francis blasted what he said was a “culture of selfishness and individualism” that permeates society today, demanding that those with money and power share their wealth and resources to fight hunger and poverty.

    You heard him brothers and sisters. Even God wants a mess. Are you going to march and yell in defiance tomorrow? – or hobble supine to your graves under the corrupting tory yoke and take your children and their children with you. Be able to face that mirror: experience the strength of unity and righteous anger – act!

  18. marty mars 18
    26 July 2013 at 9:56 pm

    Some people wonder what the end game is for arseholes like our prime minister key – this video put up by Greenpeace shows just where his head is at – all of the bits of legislation from the GCSB downward, all of the agreements from TPPA downward, all of the asset selling, the demonisation of beneficiaries, all of the bullshit and lies are not random or accidental. This video outlines one of the major reasons for it all – money. Exploiting everything, especially the land, to make some money.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/new-zealand/en/blog/this-really-is-the-prime-minister-of-new-zeal/blog/46070/

    • Draco T Bastard 18.1
      27 July 2013 at 1:43 am

      Societies don’t run on money, they run on hard work and resources and digging the resources up and selling them leaves us with no wealth. John Key’s plan to dig up sell our resources will destroy our society.

  19. srylands 19
    26 July 2013 at 10:31 pm

    Oh yay because Greenpeace is so credible.

  20. Rosetinted 20
    26 July 2013 at 11:10 pm

    CONSTITUTIONAL CONVERSATION 2013 – SUBMIT, SUBMIT
    See Constitutional Conversation advertisement above and check out all you need to know.
    Please send your submission by 5pm 31 July 2013.

    Get thinking with a quiz on each of five Topics.
    1 The Constitution http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/NZC_QuizSheet.doc
    2 The Bill of Rights http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/BOR_QuizSheet.doc
    3 The Treaty of Waitangi http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/TOW_QuizSheet.doc
    4 Maori Representation http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/MOR_QuizSheet.doc
    5 Electoral Matters http://www.ourconstitution.org.nz/store/doc/ELM_QuizSheet.doc

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