Open mike 27/09/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 27th, 2023 - 85 comments
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85 comments on “Open mike 27/09/2023 ”

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  1. Tony Veitch 1
    27 September 2023 at 6:08 am

    ‘Tis the season for predictions – and TV1 is already salivating over their latest poll, appearing on the news tonight.

    OK, I’ll play the game:

    National – down slightly to about 37%. The absurdity of Natz tax cuts begins to sink in!

    Labour – up slightly to about 29%, but still within the margin of error.

    Act – firmly anchored on about 9%. The wheels are beginning to fall off the extreme right wagon.

    Greens – hovering around 15% or more. Consolidating the fact this election is about climate!

    Te Paarti Maori – still around 3%.

    NZ First – around 5% – and the headlines will be all about Winnie the kingmaker!

    • Bearded Git 1.1
      27 September 2023 at 9:26 am

      I like your numbers Tony V.

    • Janet 1.2
      27 September 2023 at 11:59 am

      And TOP , who will work with either main party ?

    • Tony Veitch 1.3
      27 September 2023 at 9:17 pm

      Postscript:

      National continues to drop, and this trend will continue.

      Act has stalled, and will drop to around 9% on Election night.

      As a leftie, I hoped for better from Labour. But the Greens went up in the TV1 poll. This will continue. And TPM will do better.

      But, as predicted, the lead was all about Winnie!

  2. Tony Veitch 2
    27 September 2023 at 6:21 am

    Competing on cruelty:

    No Right Turn’s take on Natz and NZ First bene bashing:

    “But then, its not supposed to make sense, let alone work. It's just supposed to be performatively cruel, to attract the votes of vicious arseholes who can only feel good from the suffering of those "below" them. And when some other government has to clean up the resulting social mess, that's all the better, because that can then be criticised as "cuddles" and "waste", and they're off for another round on the cruelty wagon.”

    No Right Turn – from the side bar.

    • Tiger Mountain 2.1
      27 September 2023 at 9:18 am

      Nothing like some raw meat for the tory faithful–a good old Bennie Bash usually suffices to get them snarling. In reality in the 21st century punitive, sadistic, welfare should be done away with and replaced with a basic income for all citizens, abated by tax as you earn more.

      Unemployment is not a moral failure–it is an intentional feature of capitalism and finance capital to put downward pressure on wages and worker organisation and fight backs. Even if there are some who do not want to work who could blame them with such an ugly system of exploitation?

      The funny old thing with a lot of Natzos who demonise other citizens is that they are “Bennies” too, on National Superannuation and Winter Heating payments.

      One thing is for sure old torys always vote, whether driven to the booth or tottering in on walking frames. That will be the tragedy of this Election–alienation and low voter turnout from younger people and those living off shore.

      Some seem to be salivating for the oppression that the Epson Twerker wants to visit on fellow AO/NZers including Māori especially–but mark these words–we are in for some heavy duty social unrest and anarchy.

    • ianmac 2.2
      27 September 2023 at 9:19 am

      And Luxon will know that it won't do any good. How cruel and cynical is that! His voice has the confidence of a denier.

      • bwaghorn 2.2.1
        27 September 2023 at 12:30 pm

        I doubt it'd a vote winner, the people who get worked up about benefits, already vote national And act

  3. aj 3
    27 September 2023 at 7:49 am

    '…New Zealanders are waking up hard….

    Luxon getting down to the basics on RNZ right now…

  4. dv 4
    27 September 2023 at 8:32 am

    Ten days ago in an interview with ACT’s David Seymour, Jack Tame pointed out that last year 4,000 benefit cases were investigated for fraud, of those just 33 resulted in criminal prosecutions. We spent $50 million investigating benefit fraud in that period and found total over payments of only $2.3 million.

    https://nickrockel.substack.com/p/bennie-bashing

  5. PsyclingLeft.Always 5
    27 September 2023 at 8:37 am

    From the "cruel to be kind" hymn book. Not so much the "Good" Book

    National says traffic light policy for beneficiaries driven by 'love'

    Oh really? Love? And Louise ..Upston leading with this..reckon

    She said one employer had told her a person showed up for an interview in their pyjamas.

    "Their view was that person was not actively or seriously seeking a job with their business," she told host Lisa Owen.

    She would not reveal who the employer was, and acknowledged she had not independently verified their story.

    "I took them at their word."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018908581/national-says-traffic-light-policy-for-beneficiaries-driven-by-love

    Hey Luxon, Louise Upston, David Seymour and the rest of your creep crew. NZ can do without your kind of "love".

    Anyone who is on the lower end..needs to get motivated..to VOTE !

    • Tiger Mountain 5.1
      27 September 2023 at 9:22 am

      Sounds suspiciously like Nat MP Mr Woodhouse’s “homeless man” using a COVID hotel Crowne Plaza facility…

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.1.1
        27 September 2023 at 9:26 am

        Well there you go !. I had thought that exactly, but just..left it out.

        Nats dog whistling to the Bene bashers..for all their worth.

        • PsyclingLeft.Always 5.1.1.1
          27 September 2023 at 9:52 am

          More "pearls" aka reckons, from Louise Upston..

          Asked to provide evidence sanctions could help support beneficiaries into work, she referred to the WEAG's report: "One of their comments in their conclusion says they can be effective in encouraging movement from benefits to work".

          The report itself does not appear to say this, however.

          And Luxon…

          Luxon told Morning Report that it was not fair to say this was a policy that was getting tough on beneficiaries, instead of being based on evidence.

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2023/498834/welfare-experts-group-members-criticise-national-s-beneficiary-policy

          Yeah, its based on "love" .

          Anyone on a Benefit ..Vote Left !

      • AB 5.1.2
        27 September 2023 at 10:15 am

        “Sounds suspiciously like Nat MP Mr Woodhouse’s “homeless man” using a COVID hotel Crowne Plaza facility…”

        Same guy. He took the free hotel pyjamas and bathrobe and scarpered. Been wearing them ever since. Resourceful dude – I would have hired him.

  6. Bearded Git 6
    27 September 2023 at 8:42 am

    The Herald today:

    "But economists have criticised the policy, saying the revenue assumptions are unrealistic. National wants to get $2.9 billion from the tax over four years to fund its $14.6b tax plan. But economists warn the actual revenue could come in $2.1 billion short"

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-peters-wants-to-see-nationals-costings-before-joining-govt-mini-budget-before-christmas-luxon-says-tax-cuts-absolutely-affordable-without-foreign-buyers-tax/2647LDYJOFHLXIXHF4NYCDA7JE/

    Over 4 years the foreign house buyers tax is short $2.1 billion according to most economists. It will probably only raise $210m per year not $740m. (4 x $530m=$2.12 billion).

    But what the Herald isn't saying is that there are other massive holes in the tax plan that will require huge cuts in public services, benefits etc for it to be funded.

    And how is National going to fund its proposed, and chronically expensive, 13 major road projects?

  7. PsyclingLeft.Always 7
    27 September 2023 at 9:04 am

    No one was mentioning "cooker" until..gsays. And no I wont respond again in this Post.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • weka 7.1
      27 September 2023 at 9:14 am

      as the person that wrote the post, I’m suggesting that we don’t have a fight between lefties under a post encouraging people to vote left.

      The term cooker does get used as a pejorative on TS. I agree with gsays that this is a problem. While the origins of the word aren’t pejorative, the term itself sounds like a slur and it now gets used in that way. Soft weaponising.

      https://thestandard.org.nz/search/cooker/?search_posts=true&search_sortby=date

      https://thestandard.org.nz/search/cooker/?search_comments=true&search_sortby=date

      Why does it matter? NZF are making hay out of it while they can, which in turn causes further divisions among people that care about NZ.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 7.2
      27 September 2023 at 9:16 am

      "Cooker" (which I incidentally hadnt heard of till seen on the Standard )

      https://thestandard.org.nz/cookers-of-the-world-unite/

      Cooker to me is Sue Grey, Liz Gunn, VFF, Counterspin, et al.They and the people they speak for are not anyone..I want to associate with. Ever.

      • weka 7.2.1
        27 September 2023 at 9:25 am

        this is certainly one of the issues that the left has in winning this election. They will vote NZF instead and it's game over if NZF get above 5%.

        I really don't understand this liberal idea that the left can afford to say only the people we approve of should vote left. It's just not possible to win elections that way. We're in the minority, we need swing and centrist voters.

        Where our hope lies is in providing good examples of progressive and inclusive culture so that people can see our values matter and we walk the talk. This is how we will convince mainstream NZ to move left again. Ostracising people simply reduces the pool of people who can become progressive. And in the case of the Freedom movement people, it pushes them to the right and FR.

  8. Red Blooded One 8
    27 September 2023 at 9:24 am

    Luxon loves slogans, maybe "Work will set you free" would suit his Benefit beliefs.

  9. Ad 9
    27 September 2023 at 9:42 am

    Good to see the Police planning better for this next Wellington protest influx tomorrow.

    But what will Winston do with it?

  10. gsays 10
    27 September 2023 at 10:11 am

    Well they are constituents after all.

    Way more engaged in the political process than most.

  11. Mike the Lefty 11
    27 September 2023 at 10:54 am

    National's desire to bring back its "three strikes" penal policy finds a parallel in its desire to bring in a "traffic light" system (basically just a variant on three strikes) to punish those naughty bennies who don't want to work

    We have Louise Upston on Morning Report yesterday saying that traffic light system is very necessary even though her party thinks that 85% of beneficiaries are abiding by the rules. She then brings up some example of work shy beneficiaries turning up to job interviews in their pyjamas, obviously looking to be rejected for the job.

    So it is necessary to start swinging the cosh because 15% buck the system? If it was, say, over 50% then perhaps you might think its justifiable but 15%? Well f…. me, how bad is that? pretty low really, but it isn't good enough for National, they are prepared to make all beneficiaries feel like leeches because of a few that play up.

    National also fails to consider the consequences of the traffic lights policy. Who will ultimately suffer? It won't be the indolent themselves, it will be their dependants. I guess there would be a fair number of Work and Income staff who will sigh with frustration with National's announced policy. Deja vu.

    National will give us three strikes, traffic lights and faster cars.

    Yay!

  12. Drowsy M. Kram 12
    27 September 2023 at 11:04 am

    Luxon says foreign buyer tax questions aren't impacting polls [20 Sept 2023]

    And that, apparently, is the main thing. But why continue to insist that we should take Willis and Luxon at their word, when they've clearly been caught out trying to scam the voters.

    Fiscal Holes in The National Party's Foreign Buyers Policy w/ Nick Goodall: September 25, 2023
    "Our best estimate was that they could probably get about $213 million per year, so pretty well short of that $740…"
    …
    Do we have any idea how the National party has come to such a large number, and what information do we have about their budgeting calculations?

    Foreign Buyers Tax: A Mismatch Between Expectations and Reality
    The Importance of Transparent Policymaking
    While the shortfall in the proposed tax revenue may not significantly impact the government deficits, it serves as a testament to the politicians’ approach to policy making and their transparency in responding to criticism. Even though the National party, being an opposition party, may not have the same resources as the Government to form its policy, critics argue that it should invest in thorough analysis using the donations it receives.

    Hmm – donations the Nats receive. Might relaxing the ban on foreigners buying Kiwi homes be a way of rewarding the donors?

    Pulling tax from one part of teetering Jenga tower to place it in another [updated 20 Sept 2023]
    It’s bleak, against this backdrop, to see so much of this year’s election debate consumed by a policy proposed by the National Party that depends, again, on boosting the property sector.

    • Tricledrown 12.1
      27 September 2023 at 1:31 pm

      DKM National haven't been honest on the state of the economy their costings for the Wellsford Tuhoi highway at $2.3 billion is $2 billion short plus with annual maintenence at$400 million to keep this slip prone section open with climate change bringing floods once every other year making this road uneconomical and unaffordable!Police numbers increasing by only 77 per year National are cutting police numbers per head of population.National are lying every body needs to be talking about Nationals spin.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1.1
        27 September 2023 at 2:45 pm

        National are lying…

        yesCouldn't agree more – Nats are past and present masters of self-interested deceit.

    • Tricledrown 12.2
      27 September 2023 at 2:31 pm

      How many foreign buyers are going to pay 20% above market price.Then Winston will cancel that plus Nationals tax cuts

      National are painting themselves into a corner,Now Luxon is blabbering loudly but not answering any questions.looking less trustable as the campaign goes on.

  13. Adrian Thornton 13
    27 September 2023 at 11:25 am

    Predictably Western media/govt recent whitewashing of the well known Far Right extremist elements within both the Ukrainian military and politics, ends up with the Canadian House of Commons, including Trudeau, giving several standing ovations to a former member of the Nazi 14th Waffen SS Division ‘Galicia’…a Ukrainian Volunteer (80,000+) unit, commanded by several notorious German SS commanders, a unit well known for it’s outrageous brutality against both civilians and prisoners.

    Also predictably, The Guardian piece on this sordid affair today only mentions the Polish civilians massacred by these monsters once, then spends almost the rest of the article focused on the Jewish civilians massacred…make of that what you will.

    Then of course, true to form, The Guardian concludes its piece with this none too subtle ‘don't worry, some Nazi’s are alright’ deflection…

    “On the issue of the Galicia division, the commission’s head, Jules Deschênes, ruled that members “should not be indicted as a group”. “The members of Galicia division were individually screened for security purposes before admission to Canada. Charges of war crimes of Galicia division have never been substantiated, either in 1950 when they were first preferred, or in 1984 when they were renewed, or before this commission.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/25/canadas-house-speaker-apologises-after-praising-ukrainian-veteran-who-fought-for-nazis

    WHITEWASHING THE SS: THE ATTEMPT TO RE-WRITE THE HISTORY OF HITLER’S COLLABORATORS

    “The 14th Division of the Ukrainian SS surrounded the village Huta Pieniacka from three sides,” the report to Poland’s government- in-exile explained. “The people were gathered in the church or shot in the houses. Those gathered in the church – men, women and children – were taken outside in groups, children killed in front of their parents. Some men and women were shot in the cemetery, others were gathered in barns where they were shot.”

    http://espritdecorps.ca/history-feature/whitewashing-the-ss-the-attempt-to-re-write-the-history-of-hitlers-collaborators

    As we all know…'You lay down with dogs you get up with fleas'…..the staff at the Guardian are so infested with fleas now, that it is the readers of that rag who should probably now start worrying about getting itchy.

    • Tony 13.1
      27 September 2023 at 12:11 pm

      Thank you for posting Adrian, the story reminds me of the Ukranian Azov nazis who forced over a hundred Russian speaking Ukrainians into the building in Odessa, set fire to it and shot those trying to escape the flames in 2014. I notice the Ukraine supporters have gone very quiet on here since things turned out so badly with the so called counter offensive and the realization that 85 percent of the Worlds population support Russia in their fight against the empire of lies aka USA.

      • Coventrie 13.1.1
        27 September 2023 at 1:13 pm

        That Odessa fire you refer to was started within the building by those who were inside, by spilling materials they brought inside with them.

        As for the counteroffensive going badly, it IS going – and going persistently, which is impressive considering the lack of air support and the terrible conditions.

        Lastly I think there's a better contender for the 'empire of lies' title than the USA.

        • Tony 13.1.1.1
          27 September 2023 at 3:08 pm

          Coventrie you are either a liar or very badly misinformed in regards to Odessa, Name another empire that lies like USA, there are none. If you are interested in the actual situation with the counter offensive I suggest you listen to Larry Davidson an ex CIA analyst or retired and decorated Colonel Douglas MacGregor phd or Ray McGovern another ex CIA analyst, all of whom have good intel and analysis of the SMO.

    • francesca 13.2
      27 September 2023 at 1:06 pm

      The scramble to exonerate Waffen SS has been illuminating

      It's all about Holodomor you see.

      Apparently not only were the Russians responsible for that, but children and babies of Roma,Poles and Jews also had to pay the price and be barbarically slaughtered , in ways that turned the hardened stomachs of even German Nazis

      • Barfly 13.2.1
        27 September 2023 at 1:16 pm

        You three need to start a club

        • adam 13.2.1.1
          27 September 2023 at 2:25 pm

          So you're a nazi apologist now Barfly?

          • Barfly 13.2.1.1.1
            27 September 2023 at 4:49 pm

            I am very happy to support Ukraine if you think that makes me a Nazi apologist laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh is all i can say.

            • adam 13.2.1.1.1.1
              27 September 2023 at 5:14 pm

              A smiling nazi apologist – OK.

              Will read all your comments as such from here on out nazi.

              [And here we are again.

              Will read all your comments as such from here on out nazi.

              Reading is all you will be doing for a week because your last few comments have been nothing but name calling and ‘pig-fucker’ accusations that can no longer be considered robust debate and only as attempts to flame – Incognito]

            • gsays 13.2.1.1.1.2
              27 September 2023 at 5:44 pm

              "I am very happy to support Ukraine if you think that makes me a Nazi apologist laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh is all i can say."

              You are in good company, one of your fellow war-porn enthusiasts commented how happy they were that young Russian soldiers were being killed. In the same missive they claimed to be progressive!

        • Tony 13.2.1.2
          27 September 2023 at 3:14 pm

          Barfly we are part of the club of 85 percent of the Worlds population who recognize Americas role in the Ukraine tragedy. Do you know who Victoria Nuland is and her role in the 2014 coup against the democratically elected Government of Viktor Yanukovych? She boasted about spending 6 billion dollars to bring about regime change there, She has killed the Country and NZ is assisting USA in Ukraine.

          • Barfly 13.2.1.2.1
            27 September 2023 at 4:58 pm

            Well Tony shouldn't you be celebrating the the 83rd year since the USSR eliminated 22,000 Polish Nazis Army Officers, Policemen and members of the 'gasp' intelligentsia. In the non-russophile world it was called.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

            • adam 13.2.1.2.1.1
              27 September 2023 at 5:17 pm

              Snowflake historical grievances to justify kill people today. How very Slobodan Milošević of you.

            • Tony 13.2.1.2.1.2
              27 September 2023 at 5:24 pm

              Well Barfly, shouldn't you be celebrating NATOs brutal and murderous invasion of Libya? Why on earth are you suggesting I would celebrate such an atrocity. You do understand that the USSR no longer exists right? Let's stick to the topic instead of muddying the waters with nonsense ..

              • Barfly …
                27 September 2023 at 9:51 pm

                The Nazi Party ceased to exist 78 years ago that doesn't seem to stop you from yodelling "Nazi" all day long and your fawning sychophantic russophilia is an exercise in delusion IMO.
                Oh and by the way it’s a f***ing War no matter what Putin the tiny calls it

      • gsays 13.2.2
        27 September 2023 at 5:24 pm

        It was a tad bewildering a day or so ago to read about ok Nazi's and not ok ones.

        I was tempted to offer the idea that the only bad ones were at the Wellies occupation and at Posie Parker rallies. I figured it would have added more heat than light though…

  14. Mac1 14
    27 September 2023 at 11:31 am

    "Our examination of Labour’s various policy commitments confirms that the line-by-line costings provided to Infometrics can be met within the fiscal settings outlined in PREFU," the economics consultancy firm said."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300977960/nz-election-2023-live-labour-unveils-its-big-economic-plan

    As for National's plans, we have this. One economist, Brad Olsen, who says that their plans could work bur also the figures of their critics are also realistic. Other economists have critical doubts.

    The other great difference is that National's figures are still not released for scrutiny. We have to rely on Willis and Luxon's credibility…….

    Willis also said Infometrics economist Brad Olsen believed the estimates were plausible while other economists shared the party's view that taxing foreign buyers would be a good thing to do.

    Olsen has told RNZ today National's costings could be made to work by assuming a much larger proportion of foreign buyers purchase $2m-plus properties, however, the figures provided by the economists challenging the costings were also "realistic".

    • ianmac 14.1
      27 September 2023 at 3:28 pm

      Perhaps in the next year or so if NAct-NZF are the Government, it will be too late for the voters to complain that the then Govt is way out with its numbers. "Ooops," mutters Nicola. "It didn't work out quite the way we said but never mind. We will work out a different plan." And after a brief mumble the voters will move on.

      Cynical? Dishonest?

      • Mac1 14.1.1
        27 September 2023 at 4:03 pm

        To not disclose their figures means they do not trust them, or they have manipulated or manufactured the numbers. That is cynical because they do not fear the consequences of their dishonesty. They think they can get away with it. To disclose their figures would show their economic incompetence at best, their dishonesty and real intent at worst.

        They're not in it for you and me, ianmac.

    • Jack 14.2
      27 September 2023 at 4:05 pm

      When you’ve maxed the mortgage, the credit card, the HP and even the pay day lender is no longer interested, at least you can always fall back on Labours fiscal plan.

      • Mac1 14.2.1
        27 September 2023 at 4:43 pm

        And when you've taken the piss and had your little laugh, there remains that little problem that Labour's plan is tenable and verified independently, whereas National's plan is still on the back of an envelope somewhere it deserves to be- in a rubbish bin, presumably, because we haven't seen it.

      • Tricledrown 14.2.2
        27 September 2023 at 6:27 pm

        You know Jack …. we have one of the lowest debt levels in the OECD.Then we have one of the best preforming economies as well.

  15. Drowsy M. Kram 15
    27 September 2023 at 1:01 pm

    The 6th Labour government has made some efforts to keep inequality in check.

    Has Labour worsened inequality? [13 June 2023]
    There is no neat story to say that Labour has increased or decreased inequality, in toto – but then life is not much given to neat stories. Instead, a narrative can be pieced together from a few key strands.

    First, income poverty has clearly decreased overall, thanks in large part to the billions poured into the welfare system, although life is probably worse for the very poorest. Second, income disparities between the rich and the rest have fallen, although perhaps less so if capital gains were included. Third, the Covid response was a mixed bag, inequality-wise.

    And, fourth, the government has not, any more than its predecessors, managed to solve the problems of the housing market, with the consequence that wealth inequality has – at a minimum – not improved, and in some specific senses worsened. Labour’s record has been, in a word, imperfect – but also, in the round, rather better than most of its critics, and popular opinion, would currently allow.

    Some wealthy Kiwis (e.g. Luxon, Willis, NAct donors) will be absolutely wetting themselves at the prospect of more wealth flowing their way under a NAct govt.

    Aotearoa top 10 in global inequality index, but tax system’s inequality impact 136th [12 October 2022]
    “The inequality index shows Aotearoa is doing pretty well overall, but there is still work to be done. The fact that rich and poor countries alike have exacerbated an explosion of economic inequality since the outbreak of the pandemic from 2020 is unacceptable.
    …
    “Tax is one of the most powerful tools we have to fight inequality. It is disappointing to see New Zealand’s tax system contributing to the gap between the rich and poor. Especially in these extraordinary times, tax is crucial to boosting government resources to support welfare systems and public services.

  16. Mike the Lefty 16
    27 September 2023 at 1:04 pm

    Almost unnoticed amongst National's hamfisted promises to reduce red tape is one to scrap laws around the Conduct of Financial Institutions Act. This act is basically to put a brake on unethical or poor conduct of financial institutions and insurance companies.

    By RNZ's figures some $150 million has been refunded to customers because of this important piece of legislation. Although not specifically stated, I would reckon a large part of this would be the rip off instance finance high interest lenders who had a field day ripping off the desperate before it was enacted.

    Now National wants to scrap it. Obviously National does not care about ethical business and has no interest in protecting the vulnerable from rip off merchants.

    I hope Labour and the Greens will pick up on this.

    http://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018908710

    • Ad 16.1
      27 September 2023 at 2:49 pm

      Agree. This legislative reversal is chilling prospect for National and ACT to reverse accepted global standards of customer rights with banks.

      Commerce Commission is right to flag this as a risk.

      Can't wait to see if the main Aussie banks go over the National or ACT disclosure limit.

  17. Tricledrown 17
    27 September 2023 at 1:08 pm

    National's pathetic tough on Crime while only adding 300 police over 4 years that's a decrease in police numbers as population increase is much bigger.

    • Mike the Lefty 17.1
      27 September 2023 at 1:14 pm

      I heard them boasting about how it would reduce the ratio from 180 to 170 people per policeman.

      Gosh!

      • Tricledrown 17.1.1
        27 September 2023 at 1:43 pm

        Population increase at about 100,000 per year that is much less police per head given 77 per 100,000 means 1 extra police per 12,300 people which means less police per head of population.

        • Mac1 17.1.1.1
          27 September 2023 at 3:28 pm

          I think National are banking on a mass exodus starting 15 October to Australia and further overseas , sending back 501s, Australian criminals in NZ, as well as out of work civil servants, rugby and netball coaches, pyjama-wearing beneficiaries, road-cone manufacturers, shearers, shepherds, woke socialists, virtue-signallers, vegans and the gluten-intolerant.

          Invited in will be foreign home buyers, so long as they don't live here, apocalypse avoiders, American hidey-hole seekers, mates, one percenters seeking fresh opportunities for wealth, plunder and tax breaks, and consumers of MacDonalds, Starbucks and Kentucky Fries.

    • ianmac 17.2
      27 September 2023 at 3:36 pm

      Notice how heavily Nact depend on the people's feelings that crime is bad. This is aided by Media playing loud and detailed about the crimes. And after the Election there will be a backpeddling. Crime will get "better" because the gangs can't wear patches. Will it count if patches are smaller or in tattoos?

      • Mac1 17.2.1
        27 September 2023 at 4:38 pm

        It has to be based on feelings, ianmac, because numbers and logic are not on their side which is why they can't even produce them.

        • Anne 17.2.1.1
          27 September 2023 at 4:50 pm

          And of course that is why they can't produce the numbers for their tax cuts. Neither the numbers not the logic actually exist or if they do, they must be kept hidden because they will prove the exact opposite outcome to what the Nats are claiming.

          And talking of crime… there's a major incident underway in the vicinity of the Lincoln Rd offramp on Auckland's north western motorway. Gun shots are being exchanged according to witnesses.

          That'll have NAct's and NZ First's hearts beating with excitement.

      • Ad 17.2.2
        27 September 2023 at 4:43 pm

        Both perception and reality matters.

        Criminal gang membership really has gone up, from 4,900 to 8,900.

        Gun crime gone up massively under this government.

        Same with youth crime. Up huge over 2 terms.

        "Acts intended to cause injury" are also definitely up under this government.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-whole-truth/130965380/the-whole-truth-has-violent-crime-gone-up-under-labour

        No point talking about what tattoos signify these days.

        • arkie 17.2.2.1
          27 September 2023 at 5:11 pm

          Same with youth crime. Up huge over 2 terms

          Stop repeating their mistruths:

          …is youth crime actually getting worse?

          Turns out, not really.

          The past 15 years have actually seen a dramatic decline in youth crime, which the Ministry of Justice classifies as criminal offences by anyone under the age of 17.

          In 2007, over 5000 young people in Aotearoa were charged for crimes. Last year that had fallen to 1416 individuals – a 78% drop.

          https://www.renews.co.nz/youth-crime-isnt-more-common-its-just-more-visible/

          • Drowsy M. Kram 17.2.2.1.1
            27 September 2023 at 5:25 pm

            But arkie, it's all about "the vibe" wink

            NZ out of recession, after stronger bounce-back than expected
            [21 Sept 2023, @ 2:08 minutes]
            Forget the numbers, she [Willis] says, it's about the vibe.
            "It feels like a recession, and we can have a big debate about the technical numbers…"

            A “big debate” about "the technical numbers" eh? If only.

            'Poor' Nicola can't even justify her working for the Nat's projected revenue from their 15% foreign buyer tax scam – if anyone still believes her numbers then they probably also believe Willis will resign as promised.

        • newsense 17.2.2.2
          28 September 2023 at 1:56 am

          To echo arkie-

          what are you basing gang membership numbers on?
          Again- others get moderated for throwing unattributed stuff into a debate.

          Getting an accurate number of active gang members is more difficult than national party tax costings.

          Gang members don’t use swipe cards to let us know if they’re in or out.

  18. Ad 18
    27 September 2023 at 3:09 pm

    Voting starts on Monday.

    So hopefully we have got past the policy announcements and are into mobilisation.

  19. Ad 19
    27 September 2023 at 4:36 pm

    Holy Cow leave it to the last moment why don't you.

    Eastern Bay of Plenty agree deed of settlement for their Treaty claim when voting's about to start.

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2309/S00148/te-whanau-a-apanui-and-the-crown-initial-deed-of-settlement.htm

    Hard to see ACT+National pushing Treaty settlements if they win.

  20. Tricledrown 20
    27 September 2023 at 5:28 pm

    I would like to see some of Robert Reichs youtube videos on inequality corporate monopolization etc.How the Rich are playing the squeezed middle classes for fools.

  21. Jilly Bee 21
    27 September 2023 at 6:32 pm

    Sorry, I can't find the link, but apparently the Medical General Practices are in dire straits due to chronic under-funding which has gone on for years according to Newshub's leading story this evening. So, c.mon Chippy – revisit your tax policy, and bring in a decent wealth tax, PLEASE.

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