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Open mike 27/03/2015

Written By: - Date published: 6:40 am, March 27th, 2015 - 184 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Osborne KeyOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

184 comments on “Open mike 27/03/2015 ”

  1. mickysavage 1

    Occasional Standard comment leaver Matthew Hooton has written a very interesting article on how implausible it is that National did not know about Sabin’s difficulties and the incompetence involved if this is true is just too outlandish to be believed.

    His conclusion is that if and when the true story emerges there will be significant damage to National and brand Key.

    In its attempt to win the Northland buy election, which is looking unlikely National may cause itself significant damage in the near future. That feeling of third termitis is getting very strong …

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/sabin-clock-keeps-ticking-key

    • Paul 1.1

      Very damaging for Key.

    • tc 1.2

      Keys comments about not being arrogant after blagging a narrow recapture of treasury benches at the GE look more like self appraisal than directed towards his sock puppet ministers.

      It’s an epic piece of arrogance and stupidity to not dump Sabin for the likes of anyone, even osborne, in northland for the GE and all this would have been avoided.

      Methinks Matty and others would be more incensed about the unnecessary nature of this by election and the risks to further sellouts however he does have kids so maybe it’s a bob each way.

    • chrs 4 the heads-up m.s..

    • mary_a 1.4

      @ mickysavage – thanks for the link.

      Makes very interesting reading. When (and I notice Hooton uses the word WHEN) this issue is exposed, it will surely be the death knell for Key and his government.

      Another point is this. Is Mike Sabin able to cast a vote this weekend? Or is he residing in a place where such an option is no longer available to him?

    • ianmac 1.5

      Thanks for the link MS. Matthew has become more explicit and more credible as a Commentator and less apparent partisan. I wonder whose strategy it was to throw a blanket over Sabin?

      • MrSmith 1.5.1

        Hooton is just following the money, he can see Nationals term in power is coming to an end, so it’s time to start changing horses.

    • Old Mickey 1.6

      Can I respectfully ask your opinion, if on the chance, [deleted]

      [lprent: What part of the rules about suppression orders don’t you understand? We can’t publish this comment nor anything like it.

      I’m going to assume that you put this site at risk inadvertently. So you’ll just get auto-moderated for a while until we’re sure you won’t do it again. ]

      • Murray Rawshark 1.6.1

        If that happened we’d have more urgent problems to think about. For a start, we’d all be covered in crap from flying pigs.

    • Paul 2.1

      Let’s focus on the travails of the right this weekend, eh?

    • tc 2.2

      The origins are well known and published here months ago, Bradbury has become quite the charicature and lost perspective along with plenty of credibility IMO.

      • phillip ure 2.2.1

        @ tc –

        – gotta link for those ‘origins’..?

        ..’cos i dunno what they are..

        ..and i am sure many others are in the same position at me..

        ..puzzled..

        • marty mars 2.2.1.1

          the oday saga didn’t help – the shrapnel flung pretty wide and Mana supporters have been pulling bits out for a while now – used to that though – scars – bit like that bit in Jaws.

          • weka 2.2.1.1.1

            Lynn makes a single comment correcting what he perceives as an inaccuracy in Bradbury’s post. Is this a bitch fest? (but yeah, Bradbury responds with an ad-hom and heavy comment completely devoid of meaningful response to the point that Lynn raised).

            The man who’s just back from a ban (what was it for this time?) decides to call the main admin/moderator on ts a censor, despite the fact that Lynn rarely censors anyone apart from for reasons of potential defamation.

            Looks like shitstirring to me.

            • marty mars 2.2.1.1.1.1

              it is sad the the two biggest ‘left’ blog aren’t friends – the micro reflecting the macro prehaps

              seems like plenty of baiting going on – same as it always was

        • lprent 2.2.1.2

          It isn’t hard to find. Just type Bomber into the search, set to posts and freshness.

          We republished some well-warranted criticism of Bomber from Rob Salmond in June last year where Bomber was being a bit of a political fool in his pursuit of self-promotion, and was busy claiming credit for everything that was being done on the left except for what he was actually doing.

          Rob called him on it.

          Polity: Meanwhile, in Bomber-land

          All this, you understand, comes from the excellent starting point of wanting to replace the current government with a united, powerful left-bloc of Labour, the Greens, and Internat MANA. Yet the analysis is designed to split the left, not unify it; and the recommendations would help the left lose, not win. Top work.

          Later that same month, after Bomber attacked The Standard and me in a post, I responded and had the comment ‘moderated’. So I republished it here.

          Bomber: sensitive and inexperienced

          The content of it will be familiar because it is exactly the same subjects I’m pulling him over the coals for now. Bomber has neither dealt with them nor presumably thought about them.

          I’m not particularly well known for being kind when I think someone is being a fool. Which is exactly what you are doing with this recent ABC bullshit.

          Or the strange way that you think a relatively conservative electorate will warm to the IMP this election (I think that they will be lucky to get 3%. I will be amazed if they got 4%).

          Or the idea that Labour would not stand a candidate up North when Labour always stands candidates in all electorates and has done so for nearly a hundred years. If I were the IMP, I’d be running a strong campaign in both north and the equally winnable rotorua area where Annette Sykes has a damn good chance.

          In the end IMP got 1.6%, lost Te Tai Tokerau, and didn’t win Wairakei. As far as I can see, mainly because they didn’t focus on doing the legwork in winning the election and instead wandered off into the types of politically irrelevant ranting that Bomber prefers. It may work in the media, but it is hell on political relationships.

          In TTT that attitude from IMP activists attacking Labour activists, Labour, and Kelvin Davis resulted in pissing off grassroots Labour activists enough that they did do the work and booted Hone out of the seat. I haven’t seen Labour activists quite that vindictive about the results of their efforts for quite some time. I am sure that Bomber and those who read him had quite a lot to do with that.

          For some reason people don’t like being attacked and they react against it. This appears to be a lesson that the profoundly self-centred arseholes like Bomber, Pat O’Dea, and apparently the Mana party don’t appear to have learnt well enough yet. I suspect that if they persist in their irritating attacks on people and parties on the left for much longer then many on the left are going to wind up irritated like me and those volunteers in TTT.

          But I guess that is what has been happening as the readership over at TDB steadily drops compared to 2013 and 2014. It appears that Bomber is now trying for a very select micro-market in the left rather than across the broader left. Somehow I don’t think that is a winning political or media strategy….

          But anyway, what has been happening is that Bomber or his sockpuppets attack TS, authors here, me, or says some complete crap about something on the left. We respond in kind pointing out why he is talking complete crap. Rather than deal with the issues or informing himself to deal with them, Bomber starts sulks and throwing out more stupid fantasies. It is a pain in the arse to waste time like this. But false meme development like this is something that needs to be dealt with early rather than later.

          • marty mars 2.2.1.2.1

            sorry I can’t let some of what you have written stand without a slight rebuttal – because as you say, “false meme development like this is something that needs to be dealt with early rather than later.”

            labour won TTT – good on them, the PUBLIC help from the other parties was important – Maori Party, National, NZ First. Labour activists didn’t do it all on their own, not even slightly. Mana dropped the ball, IMP failed, Hone didn’t fire for many reasons, fuck even the right blogshere got in behind davis when he tried to set up the attack site. Perhaps these labour activists are going hard up north now – or maybe they are running courses around the country to get the rest of labour fired up after the dismal and shocking drop in their support at the last election – let’s hope so. I’ll say again good on labour for winning, they really socked it to the left wing Mana leader big time.

            Spokespeople for a political party are NOT the party – the party is made up of many people who support the ideals and kaupapa. Slamming (rightfully) spokespeople that get up your nose and then extrapolating that to a party doesn’t make sense.

            The family feud going on is just meat for the opponents – reminds me of a family feud a while ago down my neck of the woods, it was called Eat Relation Feud and it devastated communities just before the real enemies turned up.

            • lprent 2.2.1.2.1.1

              The problem is that once you start to unfairly annoy and irritate people, they will tend to seek retribution. Others will jump on board.

              In the case of Pat, that he prominently diversion trolled on this site and wrote disparaging inaccurate posts about this site at TDB with the “climate change spokesperson for Mana” tage everywhere. That means that it it is rather hard to not transfer the dislike to the party. If the party was concerned about it, then they should have damn well educated him about what he could do with their name. In the meantime I will assume it was done with their implicit support. That is what being a spokesperson is for.

              • Yep well we actually agree and I think you know that. No one likes something they believe in and are giving their energy to to be disparaged – no one – not Labour activists nor Mana activists and I think you understand that too because you’ve mentioned it a few times in the old bold. Anyway good to hear you’re getting some quieter time for reading and relaxing – hope you stay well. Kia kaha

          • sirpat 2.2.1.2.2

            I think its a perfect example of why the left fails so often….and im a leftie!!!….everyone wants to score but no one wants to play as a team………epic fail

            • lprent 2.2.1.2.2.1

              Agreed. You are left with a problem though. If crazed people like Bomber start attacking other people and parties on the left, what do you do? You either stay silent as they steadily wind up their strategic insanity, or you respond.

              Labour basically chose the first strategy and simply didn’t respond to the politically incompetent attacks by the likes of Bomber and some of the more idiotic Mana supporters.

              However I’m not a person who ever allows people to inaccurately attack whatever I am guarding. So when someone like Bomber attacks TS with complete bullshit and lies like a right wing blogger, then I respond with some acerbic accuracy. If he repeats then I will keep escalating with increasing damage until I either get a desist or what I consider to be a reasonable operating meme.

              It looks to me like Kelvin Davis and his team of volunteers operated on the ground in exactly the same way. Mana has effectively been politically destroyed for the moment because of some of their foolish supporters.

          • phillip ure 2.2.1.2.3

            further to that ‘nipping memes in the bud’ practice extolled/advised above..

            1)….i wd just like to note that the most vicious/virulent attacks on mana were in this forum…

            ..and by more than one –

            – and claiming that ganging-up in ttt against harawira as a victory of sorts confirming the content of that slagging is beyond a bit rich..eh..?

            ..and still extolled as something that was good to do..?..(!)

            2)..weka – above – (who positively gloated in delight when i was banned)..refers to the second meme i wd like to nip..

            the reason for my/that banning..

            ..i was accused of making things up..

            ..i was accused of being deliberately ‘malicious’ in my making up ..

            ..i was accused of deliberately bringing the standard into legal/financial peril – on defamation grounds..

            ..now had what i said been untrue/made-up – those accusations (tho’ over-stated) – could have had some credibility..

            .but the fact of the matter is that what i said..-that nash had been given a monthly-salary in the yr before the election by his rightwinger-supporters –
            – was completely true and accurate..

            ..and in fact was just a repitition of a comment i heard made by trotter on the panel on rnz – (to a huge audience..)

            ..which brings up the question:..why the fuck was i banned..?..i am/was entirely innocent of everything i was accused of..

            ..and yet a person who posted the rnz link confirming the accuracy of what i said was called ‘retarded’ by prentice..(!)

            ..and a two week ban stood – because he said that the charges of maliciousness/and trying to bring the standard into legal/financial peril still stood..

            ..how the fuck cd those accusations have any grounds at all – when what i said was provably true..?

            ..and for me – those unfair/unjust/inaccurate accusations/banning rankled all the more –

            – when post my banning – people who actually did what i was accused of -and continue to do – by naming s…. – were just given a tsk tsk..!..(!)..(see weka @ 16.1 in this thread..(!)

            ..given all these facts/this comparison – how the fuck in any way was that banning of me not a screaming injustice..?

            ..and is it just a coincidence that that banning came at the beginning of an election-campaign..?

            …as was the last time i was banned on what i also thought were specious/trumped-up charges –

            – as in the election ’14 campaign..

            ..(hope that answers yr ‘why were u banned?-question – there – weka..)

            • lprent 2.2.1.2.3.1

              As far as I could see the “attacks” on Mana were responses to brainless mana supporters attacking people who were making perfectly reasonable comments like “Internet Mana are only likely to 2-3% countrywide party vote”, “Hone needs to concentrate on winning Te Tai Tokerau”, “Labour ALWAYS puts up candidates in every seat” and “Bad idea for Internet Mana to attack Labour supporters”. I know that I said all of those things and was attacked by various fools for bursting their bubble with reality warnings.

              Perhaps if the lunatic fringe of the politically naive had listened rather going completely ballistic in response to realistic advice, then the Labour Maori activists in TTT wouldn’t have made it their mission to kick Hone out of his seat.

              I know that my view on Mana has shifted from amused toleration eighteen months ago. It now pretty much consists of how soon will it die (and can I help in the process). The way that their supporters whine and attack everyone else on the left is pretty intolerable. It appears to be a party that has been killed by their nutty and completely erratic supporters… Like you, bomber, Pat O’Dea, and some others.

              It is a pity because there are a whole lot of people inside and supporting Mana who are effective proponents for the left. But they are being drowned out by the fools.

      • Karen 2.2.2

        I agree tc. Gave up reading Martyn Bradbury some months ago for exactly the reasons you outline. His long standing championing of Stuart Nash is just one example of questionable political judgement.

        There are still some good posts on the Daily Blog by a few of the other contributors, but they have become so few and far between I seldom check the site now.

        • Pasupial 2.2.2.1

          Karen

          The trick with reading TDB these days is that the; “Deconstructing Headlines” section is Bradbury’s personal playground (I personally quite like some of his turns of phrase, but wouldn’t usually quote him as a information source). If you can’t be bothered with his stuff, then you’re best to stick with the; “Setting the Agenda” & “Guest Blogs” sections; which are mostly Bomber free zones. Frank Macskasy, Selwyn Manning, Latifa Daud, Diane Khan, Keith Locke, Jessie Hume & Chris Trotter are usually worth reading. Even Curwen Rolinson is interesting for a NZF insider viewpoint. The Daily Gallery is mostly a collection of Malcolm Evans cartoons these days which, with only occasional meme images. I tend to avoid Nash and O’Dea posts though.

          After the election and over the holidays there was a distinct drop off in quality with Bradbury seeming to be doing everything by himself for a while. ScarletMod is doing a better job of moderation, usually stating the reason for a comment deletion or redaction rather than just disappearing them (the only one I’ve had vanish of late was one that commented a bit too much about a “Prominent New Zealander”, I’ve taken to copying them to my wordprocessor as a precaution though). But TRP is correct that the moderation has been much better than on TS than TDB.

          • Pasupial 2.2.2.1.1

            However, I have noticed of late that there is a lag between making a comment and having it appear on a thread. This makes it impossible to edit out flawed phrasing which wasn’t evident before seeing it in the finished format (eg I should have shortened some sentences in the above comment). So I’ve had to take to copying comments to my computer when posting here too.

          • Karen 2.2.2.1.2

            Yes, I agree there are a few of the other contributors worth reading. I’d add Susan St John, Mike Treen and Kate Davis to your list. I seldom read Chris Trotter these days.
            However, the reason I have gone off reading the Daily Blog isn’t just about Bradbury, it is also the design of the blog. I much prefer the layout of The Standard. I find it very easy to quickly check out what new posts have been added and run my eye down the comments roll at the side to see who is talking about what. The selection of feeds is also useful.

            I really miss Karol though!!

            • Pasupial 2.2.2.1.2.1

              TDB and TS do have quite different layouts, and it is a lot harder to find old comments on TDB. But I do like the star-rating and up/down voting comments system there, for when I am too tired to be able to form coherent sentences or do the requisite research to back up my views.

              Karol is doing good work over on her own blog (though I do miss her contributions to the hurly burly of TS). For example, the most recent post:

              Last September the Law Society of New Zealand reported on various forms of human trafficking of men and women to New Zealand who worked in conditions of slavery. This includes exploited Filipino workers in Christchurch,, women forced to be se workers in exploitative conditions and

              foreign men – largely from Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Thailand – [who] are subjected to forced labour conditions aboard our foreign charter vessels in New Zealand waters. Alleged conditions include confiscation of passports, imposition of significant debts, physical violence, mental abuse, excessive hours of work and sexual abuse.4

              There is less publicly available information about domestic slavery in New Zealand. It is something that slips far more easily under the radar than many of the above reported types of cases in NZ. However, there have been a handful of publicly reported cases.

              https://karolscribe.wordpress.com/2015/03/24/not-so-devious-maids-living-with-slavery/#more-481

              Which I was re-reading in light of this article in the ODT:

              The Associated Press this week published the results of a year-long investigation into the fishing industry in Indonesia and Thailand, which found slaves – mostly from Burma – were being forced to fish for little or no pay and even imprisoned in cages while on land…

              Journalists followed the catch as it was distributed in trucks to a number of buyers including a supplier to Thai Union Manufacturing.

              According to the AP, Thai Union exports thousands of cans of cat food products including Fancy Feast, Meow Mix and Iams.

              http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/337409/nz-retailers-shocked-slavery-claims

            • swordfish 2.2.2.1.2.2

              Yep, The Standard is easily the best designed New Zealand Blog in my opinion.

    • Your headline includes a false equivalence, Phil. LPrent is not a censor. He’s remarkably tolerant of dissenting views and usually responds with words rather than bans. Ok, often abusive words, but you get my point. Bradbury, on the other hand, actively removes entire comments that conflict with whatever bollocks he publishes. Perhaps you haven’t experienced it personally, but if you disagree with him and post a comment saying so, even in the most reasonable language, there’s a high likelihood it will simply disappear.

      As to the reason for the spat, I think there’s a huge clue in the blog site rankings. The pressure of having to pretty much write the whole blog himself and watching it lose readership month after month appears to be doing Bomber’s head in.

    • Rosie 2.4

      “does anyone else wonder what the origins of this ongoing bitch-fest are..?”

      No, not me phillip, not really that interested.

      I have little respect for Martyn Bradbury and only lasted about 6 months as a reader and commenter on his site before he got all personally petulant and pouty towards me and I got sick of his hyper sensitive moderating style. I can’t be bothered with his unappealing personality traits, such as his fragile ego. (I won’t go into all the others)

      If Lynn wants to call Bradbury out on his BS (and I believe Lynn does have a finely tuned BS detector and has way more sharps than Bradbury) that’s fine, it’s his business and he’s entitled to respond.

      Besides there’s far bigger buckets of popcorn going around this weekend!

    • Murray Rawshark 2.5

      The origins? Bradbury talking crap as usual. He’s really quite a nasty little man. Others on his blog are far better, but he’s so far up his own bum I usually don’t bother.

  2. Whateva next? 3

    Sadly no one has akshully had the strength to force the moment to a crisis though, so National continue to believe they have no accountability, and integrity is such an old fashioned word these days

    • tc 3.1

      It’d help if labour kept at it in question time with their own attack lines and left the greens to do their own thing.

  3. Skinny 4

    Transparency, or should I say the lack of surrounding Mike Sabin’s resignation looks likely to cost National the Northland seat. Should this occur then its the start of a political death spiral of firstly John Key and the National led Government. I’m going to call it, a loss on Saturday and then the wider New Zealand public learning of the nature of Sabin’s issue’s will force John Key to bow out of politics.

    It appears election night 2014, and a further 3 years was Key’s political zenith, and now less than 6 months later brand Nationals share price has peaked, the market has realised the stocks were overvalued, with the Sabin coverup some speculators are smelling a ponzi scheme, the whiff of which signals a National share price collapse. In order to stabilise the National brand and share price. A board meeting will be called which usually results in the CEO’s resignation, think Bernie Madoff.

    Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of Key. I say yes.

    • mary_a 4.1

      @ Skinny – yes. I think the King John reign is coming to an end. A controversial end to boot. And an end which will also see the end of the long anticipated knighthood for Key. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind!

      John Key – THE END 🙂

      • sirpat 4.1.1

        agree totally…. how ever the rub is that Key wont give a shit anyway,,,,hes got millions and cares even less about the billions he will leave us in debt…..it would be most excellent to be able to pin his arse to wall in all sorts of ways……having a sullied reputation will not faze him either.

    • Rosie 4.2

      “Are we witnessing the beginning of the end of Key. I say yes.”

      One can only hope so.

      I won’t start celebrating until all the votes are counted though and we know for sure what the path ahead looks like.

      Steven Joyce said (RNZ) that the Nat’s internal polling has Osbourne higher that the 3News and Colmar Brunton polls but still less than Peters. That polling bloody better reflect the actual outcome tomorrow. If it does, then yes, it may well be the beginning of the end.

      PS: Edit: The Hooton article micky posted suggests it’s just a matter of time:

      “The risk for Mr Key is that if the full Sabin story becomes known in a week, a month, six months or a year, it will look as if his government covered it up not just through a general election campaign but then again through the by-election as well. The clock keeps ticking.”

      • Skinny 4.2.1

        Yes in desperation Joyce called up Ryan trying to peddle the same old snake oil recipe, just using a different label. “Our internal polls say we are close a lot closer”. Deifying the stats of 4 other independent polls, knowing in elections a certain number of voters like too back the winning candidate, no science just that simple fact. Then when Ryan asks what’s the figure? he goes all silly and says ” I can’t possibly revel the figure.” His high pitched screeching was worst than our lunatic budgies, who incidentally started screaming their little heads off when they heard his voice chance to a shrill lol.

  4. Penny Bright 5

    URGENT!!!

    John Key will be in KeriKeri
    Friday 27 March 2015
    between 10am – 11am.

    Penny Bright

  5. Kaplan 6

    Some prominent New Zealander has managed to keep their suppression for a while longer.
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/prominent-new-zealander-wins-name-suppression-appeal-vy-170671

    • Rosie 6.1

      Thanks Kaplan…………….

    • Clemgeopin 6.2

      “Some prominent New Zealander”

      I wonder who that is!….’The murky mystery and high level cover up of the well known unknown awful offender!’….(No, don’t tell! My ears are sealed!)

    • Pasupial 6.3

      A High Court judge has now allowed suppression of the man’s name until the trial starts.

      Allegations are of physical conduct of a sexual nature – of the touching and rubbing type.

      He had been remanded on bail until April 20…

      Both the NZ Police, represented by Brian Dickey, and the media organisations, represented by Tania Goatley, opposed the suppression.

      I am surprised that the Police opposed the suppression, you would usually expect them to protect one of their own. Perhaps it is true that the alleged victims of this PromNZr also oppose name suppression. Peters’ proposal of a bill to prevent abuse of name supression seems very timely (with the Northland byelection in its final week).

      • tc 6.3.1

        I don’t think they consider the individual to be one of their own but rather a very bad egg that needs to be made to answer the allegations.

        long overdue housekeeping

      • Murray Rawshark 6.3.2

        As far as I know, if the victims of such acts want suppression, it happens automatically. Therefore the victims want this public. I can imagine on what grounds, apart from future knighthoods, that suppression has been ordered.

    • rawshark-yeshe 6.4

      interesting the NZ Police opposed the suppression .. is that usual ??

      • Rosie 6.4.1

        Um, this is a bit difficult.

        Last year a friend and her close relative went to the Police about an attempted rape. It was a sickening situation and the lives of some of those family members have changed forever.
        The Police have been very supportive of the victims and been absolutely thorough in their investigation. It doesn’t sound like there is anything at fault with their processes. I’ve heard every twist and turn of it from my friend.

        When the alleged offender’s name suppression was due to expire (expire? you know what I mean) and his lawyer wanted it extended, the Police opposed it. They wanted the name suppression lifted, and it was, a few months ago. No one in the press picked up on it.

        The alleged offender is an ex cop, and had worked previously for many years in the region that the offending took place. That’s all that I will say about this case.

        It’s not appropriate for me to convey to my friend my surprise and relief that the handling of their case has been nothing but professional and they did not seek to protect one of their own, but that’s something that has been privately reassuring at least.

        Hearing her story has restored a small amount of faith I have in the Police (and then the Roastbusters report crapped all over that feeling). Perhaps it is possible that they won’t always tolerate criminal activity amongst their own.

        Of course we don’t know if this is “one of their own” at all, it could be anybody but as TC says, maybe a real “bad egg” they feel the public has a right to know the identity of.

        • Anne 6.4.1.1

          The fact that the police supported the lifting of the suppression order suggests to me that the alleged offences – whatever exactly they were – are regarded as within the upper levels of seriousness. It would also suggest to me that the victims – and/or their care givers – did not request continued suppression. This is just speculation of course but if true, then it brings into question… why did the judge choose to continue the suppression order?

          • Rosie 6.4.1.1.1

            All good points thanks Anne. And, yes, it would be interesting to know what reasoning the judge had to continue with name suppression, given the points of speculation.

    • mary_a 6.5

      @ Kaplan – can’t open page. Message says ” Page not found. Page does not exist” I have found similar situations trying to open links over the past few days of this week, all referring to the same issue!

      Coincidence? The time worn old cynic in me thinks something sinister afoot!

      • Anne 6.5.1

        NBR articles are usually behind a pay wall.

        • Matthew Hooton 6.5.1.1

          The owner felt that it was in the public interest for a number of them to be free to all today – including my column on Mike Sabin and John Key, and this one about the Prominent New Zealander.

          • Skinny 6.5.1.1.1

            Hooton I wouldn’t pay to read Coleman’s ( if he still owns it) rag, especially after reading your attack National lite dross. Manning smoked your arse in his column. Speaking of smoking, Barry must have been smoking dope with you to allow such say nothing news, Christ stay off the pot before the next edition please.

  6. ScottGN 7

    Reading the Dom Post editorial this morning I even felt a twinge of sympathy for Osborne. Then I got over it.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/67520958/national-has-botched-this-byelection

    • Puckish Rogue 7.1

      No sympathy from me, you either win or GTFO

      and yes if anyone in National had knowledge about the alleged allegations then National and John Key do not deserve to win the next election

    • mary_a 7.2

      @ ScottGN – The Natsies botched the byelection, long before now.

      Such as the last quarter of last year, when Key decided to indulge himself in his usual deception and cover ups of the Mike Sabin issue, hoping it would go away and never see the light of day! How wrong he was, because the longer it remains hovering in the air, the more difficult the situation is going to get for Key & Co! So difficult in fact, I
      doubt he will be able to slide his slimy way out of it! Watch him squirm then! Bring it on!

  7. miravox 8

    The Guardian wins the right to publish what should not have been secret. The monarch-in-waiting’s letters to ministers. It only took 10 years and still the powers that be insist these letters should be private.

  8. Emalitza 9

    Okay – random post time (that’s allowed at Open Mike right?).

    * Shuffles onto stage*,

    * Clears throat*

    Ahem, can you hear me at the back?

    So – last night I had the weirdest dream (promising start already) . . . I dreamt that I left work midway through the day, to go to a speech, held in a barn across the road . . a speech made and attended by all the posters and collaborators here at The Standard.

    I have no recollection of what the speech was about.

    I do remember Winstons ‘Force for the North’ bus parking behind us to hide us from public view so we could continue our discussions in relative privacy.

    And I remember being singled out by the speaker as she recognised me from a community blog I was part of 14 year ago.

    Then – realising it was 5:15pm and I had been away from work all afternoon, rushed back, only to find my office set up for a dinner party with members of the community and select V8 Supercar drivers in attendance.

    Apparently Jamie Whincup was in danger of being disqualified from this weekends race due to a fuel disparity and I was distraught.

    The End.

    *shuffles back off stage*

    You may all continue with your much more meaningful than mine posts now 🙂

    • Clemgeopin 9.1

      You forgot the bit when Winny smiled so sweetly and asked you longingly, “Is that you, Condoleezza?”

    • David H 9.2

      You gotta leave the cheese and Pickled Onions alone before you go to bed!

  9. Puckish Rogue 10

    This Saturday people in Christchurch get witness Cameron Slater getting knocked about for charity with proceeds going to Kids Can charity

    So for those one or two people on here who don’t like Cameron Slater heres your chance to watch a fitter, taller, more experienced professional sportsman punch him in the face and a kids charity benefits!

    What more could someone want

    • mac1 10.1

      Not much charity in any of this, IMO.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1

        Its all good, some good boxing, some side show boxing and some money going to charity so whats not to love

    • vto 10.2

      Slater is a worthless piece of shit

      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1

        So buy a ticket and watch him get his beans

        • vto 10.2.1.1

          F#%k off

          • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1.1.1

            Ok tough guy 🙂

            • vto 10.2.1.1.1.1

              Sorry, wasn’t meant to be rude to you. Was meant in one of those friendly “f&%k off” ways.

              Slater is unwelcome in the south island for good reason. I hate the prick personally

              • Puckish Rogue

                Exactly, hes not popular in Christchurch yet hes going up against the “peoples champion” thats had fight experience, has incredible hand-eye coordination and is both younger and taller

                Never get a better chance then this to see Slater get punched in the face

    • weka 10.3

      “What more could someone want”

      Politics based on integrity, transparency, honesty, being real, telling the fucking truth, instead of a staged macho shithead fight based on PR, dishonesty and power grabbing (the charity do or DP).

    • Draco T Bastard 10.4

      How about politics that doesn’t promote violence as the answer?

  10. Clemgeopin 11

    “The only poll that matters is the one on Saturday”…says Osborne!

    And more here:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/67521779/i-wont-pick-up-the-phone-john-key-dismisses-winston-peters

    • Puckish Rogue 11.1

      The only people that say that are those that know they’re losing

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2

      Quoting article:

      First will would gain an extra MP off the party list and National will would lose one vote in Parliament though it will would still have enough support to win a confidence vote.

      Unless National’s support parties decide that they can’t support National. This years budget is going to be especially interesting.

  11. ianmac 12

    I can get my head round this issue.
    Just read Jane Kelsey’s take on the TPPA. This phrase bothered me:
    “Bilcon complained local officials had encouraged the project and called the review panel a “rare, cumbersome and costly obstacle” to its investment.”
    USA Bilcon are seeking 300million compensation because the Canadian environmental committee turned down the American Bilcon application re mining.
    So that is what our Government is signing up the TPPA for NZ.
    No wonder they want to water down the RMA.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11423728

    • rawshark-yeshe 12.1

      terrifying stuff. and absolute proof of Key and Groser lying to NZ on their way through the whole negotiation stages of it. It’s treason, but what can we do about it ?

    • weka 13.1

      very good. If National win Northland what do they think is going to happen when the truth finally comes out? Or even if they don’t win Northland.

      • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1

        Labour wins in a landslide

        • weka 13.1.1.1

          idiot trole.

          • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1.1.1

            Actually i’m serious, when [careful – MS] there’ll be a backlash against National, National will be punished and Labour will be returned in a land slide

            You heard it here first

            • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1.1.1.1

              sorry about that

            • weka 13.1.1.1.1.2

              Think about timing

            • sirpat 13.1.1.1.1.3

              perhaps not…..I reckon Labour voters are quite clever…..they didn’t like Labours policies so just didn’t vote…..yeah I know some went blue and green but personally they had better come up with some better ideas than last time or the same will happen again.

              • Puckish Rogue

                If whats being said comes to pass then its just a matter of how much Labour will win by and who they choose to go in to coilition with

      • Clemgeopin 13.1.2

        Key’s role for USA as their main man in NZ will start to come to an end.

    • greywarshark 13.2

      Paul C
      Thanx for that. Good to see Trmain as god as ever.

  12. Philip Ferguson 14

    On a completely unrelated subject. . .

    Any Dr Who fans about?

    “Doctor Who has evolved from a threatening anti-establishment figure, laments Eddie Ford, to a patriotic defender of the status quo. . .”
    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/11/29/doctor-who-degeneration-of-a-time-lord/

    • Puckish Rogue 14.1

      I don’t know about that but Christopher Eccelston was definately the best Doctor

    • Bill 14.2

      My two bobs worth?

      Written before Capaldi took over the role and resurrected the more edgy character traits as played by Troughton, Hartnell and latterly, Eccleston. Wish people would remember that it’s ‘just’ a kids programme btw…

      • Puckish Rogue 14.2.1

        Next thing you’ll be saying is the Goodies were just a kids program…

        • Bill 14.2.1.1

          Hmm. Certainly not as childish as TVNZ and TV3 news programmes…or the so-called documentaries that are foisted on us….or most of the rest of what is on TV.

          But then, kids programme that it is, neither, arguably, is Dr Who 😉

          • greywarshark 14.2.1.1.1

            It’s not Just a Kids’ Program. It’s part of the zeitgeist of the last and today’s century.

            • Colonial Rawshark 14.2.1.1.1.1

              One important thing about Doctor Who is that from the start, it has always shown that empires and civilisations, no matter how powerful and all encompassing, will arise and fall in their own time.

              • greywarshark

                CR
                True – I think that there are messages in Dr Who for us to take on board. And further everything we watch and do has reference to us and our society.

                A lot of the stories are analogies for us, and allow our minds to encompass unthought of possibilites, at the conscious level. Anything that can be thought of, will be likely to have been done by someone, is possibly being done, or may be carried out in the future. So take care to critique what you think and see! I think we would have been happier if we had stayed just a little more intelligent than a dog.

  13. miravox 15

    Kidicorp now a charity

    Wayne Wright said although the operation would have been valuable to outside investors, “we wanted to protect the quality features and community-centric approach we’ve built up over the years.

    “We’ve accepted the reality that commercially driven owners would be focused on returns to shareholders and likely compromise what Best Start stands for – improving children’s lives across New Zealand.”

    A pretty special thing to do Wayne and Chloe Wright.

    • jenny kirk 15.1

      I’m a bit more cynical about this move by Kidicorp, Miravox.

      You do know that charitable status allows them tax exemption, plus they’ll be able to ask for grants from philanthropic funding organisations. Which means that a former commercial outfit now has a “competitive” advantage over its still-commercial rivals.

      • miravox 15.1.1

        It was more that they recognised that quality early childhood education does not mix with a shares, dividends and other commercial imperatives rather than the charitable trust per se. A light bulb moment for them, I was thinking 😉

        Not many who capitalists/business people seem to understand that public goods and profit motives may be at odds.

    • Weepus beard 15.2

      Anyone who names a childcare juggernaut Kidicorp has questionable motives. I think they are weird.

  14. Melanie Scott 16

    Friends near Kerikeri know the full Sabin story, but won’t risk discussing it with their friends on email, only face to face. We do live in a five eyes state.
    Does anyone know people who feel the same way?

    • weka 16.1

      There is a [careful! – MS]. Not sure what the deal is with email (legal or not?) but don’t see an inherent connection with 5 eyes.

      • Colonial Rawshark 16.1.1

        [Careful! – MS] Not talking to others about it. But who knows how far a security and surveillance state might go in order to make a point.

    • Colonial Rawshark 16.2

      People are modifying their behaviour (what they say, how they say it, who they say it to) as Snowden’s revelations become more widely known. In East Germany the secret police state there ended up created an environment stifling personal creativity, innovation and expression, leading to a stagnation of the country and its people.

    • greywarshark 16.3

      Melanie
      The 1080 thinker who I think years ago wrote a letter about it to Fonterra, has had every google visit observed apparently. Or perhaps anything with the right keywords. So until they can read our minds (think John Chrisopher’s The Tripods) it would be best not to open oneself to the suspicion of the fuzz.

    • jenny kirk 16.4

      Yeah – I’d be careful about putting it into actual words, even on email. Where I’ve done this, I’ve hedged it around with words like “speculation”, “rumoured”, “alleged” etc.

    • gsays 16.5

      hi melanie, in contrast , i had a telephone (landline) conversation with a chum from nthland.
      he was fairly up front, clear and concise with his understanding of what the former mp for northland is accused of. his source is very well placed.

      he is by nature a cautious and careful person.
      i will mention to him what you have expressed re 5eyes, when i see him in person in the near future.

  15. greywarshark 17

    Just a philosophical thought. A Scottish writer interviewed this morning about his book Maggie and Me is gay and has an extraordinary tale of his route out of small-town working class bigotry. A thoughtful chap with ideas that are empowring and interesting.

    He talks about the stresses on young people who are trying to get on in the world and how there is an idea that there is a list of things they should have done by age 30. And it reminded me of a feeling I had that we are living in a parallel with the zeitgeist of the 1930’s – the period between WW1 and WW2 – when young people wanted to enoy themselves and cretivity seemed to blossom, and older people fstruggled to find stability and happiness and wanted to ignore signs that this could not be achieved.

  16. ankerawshark 18

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/67521779/national-not-giving-up-in-northland-yet-steven-joyce-says

    Keys usual tactics. Blames Winston for not wanting to do a deal, then makes it the voters fault for not turning out if they lose this by-election.

  17. Philip Ferguson 19

    LGBT workers have been at the forefront of Baristas Rise Up, a movement advocating for low-waged service workers and baristas. . .
    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/gay-lesbian-bi-and-trans-struggles-are-class-struggles-too/

  18. greywarshark 20

    Today a giant NASA balloon has been released from Wanaka and is to go high in the sky and above I think.

    I suggest that people who are trying to get funds to provide compassionate help for those who are poor and disadvantaged should join up into an extended organisation just for similar groups, or somehow support one that is completely unaffiliated and does not receive any government money or contracts. Then that separate group will mock and parallel any expensive event of this balloon type in a demonstration. This would make a dramatic point about the way that money can be made available for curiosity science and other wonders for the wealthy, but not available to help the citizens of the world with necessities for living.

    This group would now have mass balloon releases in this country and round the world from places where it would not interfere with aircraft flight paths, radar or bird migration. In the media attention they would be outlining ten things that need doing in their area that are well within our present scientific capabilities and needed for the human wellbeing, just requiring a small proportion of the funds spent on the latest Wonder of the World. When the now ubiquitious fireworks displays are put on for the momentary excitement of the blase’, the group would mass with displays of lighted sparklers and publicise a named needy cause at the same time, and this would be a structural need, not be for an individual charity supporting a group or individual with
    needs. It wouldn’t be just another way of publicising fundraising for the blind, or MS, or Kayleene to advance her sporting skills overseas or to raise money for a child with rare medical problems needing overseas or groundbreaking surgery or treatment.

    (This action could not be carried out against every expenditure, as some of the large amounts going on infrastructure result in permanent structures that aid tourism, cultural centres and so on which if they are available for the use and enjoyment by the poor as well as the wealthy, bring positive outcomes for years.)

    The needs for funding extend from daily food and clothing, land with supply of water for food growing, controls on chemicals destructive to fertility of the soil and health of living beings from small to large, good, free seed and plant nurseries for cropping, action to slow global warming and find more sustainable living systems.

    • Colonial Rawshark 20.1

      I like this idea GWS. Hopefully it should be clear to all that the mean spirited excuse that we “can’t afford” good things for Kiwis is just that – a mean spirited excuse.

    • Pasupial 20.2

      greywarshark

      I have to disagree with you on this one. Sure, you can publicity-jack any event you want, but this launch is simply not an example of an; “expensive event”:

      The science and engineering communities have previously identified long-duration balloon flights at stable altitudes as playing an important role in providing inexpensive access to the near-space environment for science and technology…

      NASA’s scientific balloons offer low-cost, near-space access for scientific payloads weighing up to 8,000 pounds for conducting scientific investigations in fields such as astrophysics, heliophysics and atmospheric research.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC1503/S00004/nasa-to-launch-scientific-space-balloon-from-wanaka-nz.htm

      You may dismiss this as; “curiosity science”, and certainly curiosity is at the heart of all science worth the name. However, note the potential for; “atmospheric research”. Such balloons can provide essential data on the upper atmosphere while producing far less carbon emissions than conventional flight. They will be an important tool in combating the worst effects of climate change.

  19. dv 21

    So Key tells Northland I don’t give a stuff about what you vote

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/67521779/i-wont-pick-up-the-phone-john-key-dismisses-winston-peters

    Prime Minister John Key says he won’t be picking up the phone to Winston Peters on Sunday if the power balance shifts after the Northland by-election.

  20. ianmac 22

    I assume that everyone has read this but just in case…
    “Werewolf: The Myth Of Steven Joyce

    Gordon Campbell: The myth of competence that’s been woven around Steven Joyce – the Key government’s “Minister of Everything” and “Mr Fixit” – has been disseminated from high-rises to hamlets, across the country…”
    http://werewolf.co.nz/2015/03/the-myth-of-steven-joyce/

  21. weka 23

    Anyone know if breaking a suppression order by email is illegal?

    • Puckish Rogue 23.1

      You could ask these guys I guess

      https://forms.police.govt.nz/forms/contact-new-zealand-police/10?about=general_enquiry

      Don’t give too much information though 😉

    • Anne 23.2

      If its a private email between you and the person receiving it then its got to be alright. There’s no difference between an email conversation and talking face to face. We can say what we damm well like when its out of public earshot.

    • jenny kirk 23.3

      Not only illegal – but punishable by fine of up to $100,000. Not something to undertake lightly !

    • Murray Rawshark 23.4

      Putting something on the internet is regarded as publication. A Tory judge could possibly stretch the definition of internet to include emails, but my lay opinion is that this would be pretty weak and likely to be overturned. If you wrote an email as an open letter and published it on a blog or on a local Facebook account, that might be different.

  22. felix 24

    Filthy disgusting thugs let a young man beat himself to death in a blood-smeared room.

    No charges to be laid. No disciplinary action to follow.

    Nothing to see here. Carry on.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/67527642/police-failed-sentry-taitoko-who-died-in-custody

    • greywarshark 24.1

      The doctor said he was too ill to send to hsopital. And he must have been out of his brain. Why isn’t there a special tranquiliser dart that a doctor can use to immobilise a highly excited person? Then he could have been cared for. It was obviously not just a case of letting him sleep off too much alcohol.

      You can tell the quality of a police force by the methods they use with vulnerable criminals and others. You can tell the quality of a country and government by the way they treat vulnerable people while under government control.

      (I heard this morning about the 1080 raid on a historical 1080 protester – ten or more policemen, 3 warrants, away from home for questioning from 7am to 6 pm, separated husband and wife I think at different establishments, and returned to a mess rubbish emptied over their kitchen bench, things all over the floor and the house left unlocked. No attempt at quality policing and responsible careful behaviour there.)

      • joe90 24.1.1

        (I heard this morning about the 1080 raid on a historical 1080 protester – ten or more policemen, 3 warrants, away from home for questioning from 7am to 6 pm, separated husband and wife I think at different establishments, and returned to a mess rubbish emptied over their kitchen bench, things all over the floor and the house left unlocked. No attempt at quality policing and responsible careful behaviour there.)

        The usual with no chance of any sort of apology or reparations.

      • Puckish Rogue 24.1.2

        I’m guessing that without knowing a persons medical history or what drugs the person had taken prior to the episode a doctor would loathe to sedate anyone in case of an accidental overdose

        • joe90 24.1.2.1

          Engaging the community mental health crisis team was too hard?.

        • felix 24.1.2.2

          I’m guessing that being a crooked thuggish sociopath surrounded by a bunch of similar fuckwits, who gives a fuck about some wasted black kid?

          • Puckish Rogue 24.1.2.2.1

            Why isn’t there a special tranquiliser dart that a doctor can use to immobilise a highly excited person?

            – I’m guessing that without knowing a persons medical history or what drugs the person had taken prior to the episode a doctor would loathe to sedate anyone in case of an accidental overdose

            I was answering this question, not sure what you’re on about

            • Colonial Rawshark 24.1.2.2.1.1

              You need special mental health workers to attend in a situation like this. Joe Regular medical doctor likely won’t have enough hands on experience by themselves to deal with such a scenario successfully.

            • joe90 24.1.2.2.1.2

              not sure what you’re on about

              The quack who observed Sentry at the police station would’ve known the circumstances of his removal for detoxification and been aware of his self harm but didn’t bother.

            • millsy 24.1.2.2.1.3

              Everyone is different. Too low a dosage can have little effect, too high a dosage can be fatal.

      • McFlock 24.1.3

        To put it bluntly, if he’s on uppers and you give him downers, and the uppers wear off before the downers, you’ll John Belushi the dude.

        Dealing with drunks, especially angry drunks, can make you see what you expect to see and overlook underlying medical conditions (not just drugs or mental health issues, but diabetes, stroke, epilepsy, hypothermia [Dunedin lol], and so on). Been there, fucked that up (not with the same repercussions, but there was an “oh fuck” moment or two).

        I actually have issues with the doctor more than the cops in this case (although the cops should have checked regularly, too). It seems pretty obvious, but making a medical assessment through a window does not count as anything beyond “immediate danger” (i.e. the person is upright, not spurting blood or puking, and might be verbally responsive). If the person was too violent to complete a check, then the doctor should have been called back when the guy calmed down (only half an hour or so later).

        There might also be other workload issues (no idea what else the police or doctor were dealing with) and the time of day might also be a factor alongside day of week and whether there were handover issues with a shift change, but it seems that almost all concerned assessed him through “the guy is a drunk dickhead” lenses. 999/1000 you’re right, but when you’re wrong…

        • marty mars 24.1.3.1

          yep that doctor – fucken hell

          “Over 30 minutes from 1.47am to 2.16 am, CCTV footage showed him falling and hitting his head on the concrete walls or floor of the cell 83 times, the report said.

          Over the next hour, he hit his head about another 31 times, with his cell becoming smeared with blood.

          A police doctor looked at Taitoko through the cell window at 3.21am, but he did not enter the cell.”

  23. joe90 25

    Fuck the corporates.

    The Amazon contract, obtained by The Verge, requires employees to promise that they will not work at any company where they “directly or indirectly” support any good or service that competes with those they helped support at Amazon, for a year and a half after their brief stints at Amazon end.

    […]

    The company has even required its permanent warehouse workers who get laid off to reaffirm their non-compete contracts as a condition of receiving severance pay.

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/26/8280309/amazon-warehouse-jobs-exclusive-noncompete-contracts

  24. Draco T Bastard 27

    Tests

    Is this where National’s National Standards are taking our young?

  25. best political one-liner of the wk..

    it came from dita de boni in the herald..

    ..where she said of bill english:..

    ‘..Like his colleagues he is adept at rolling a turd in glitter..’

    (heh..!..)

    http://whoar.co.nz/2015/dita-de-boni-kiwis-hoodwinked-over-state-housing-ed-bill-english-is-described-as-adept-at-rolling-a-turd-in-glitter/

  26. McFlock 29

    I think I overlooked any comments on this in the last few days:
    Kiwi soldiers in Iraq to have identities kept secret.

    Allegedly for safety purposes for them and their families (noble), I wonder if this will also further obscure the number and nature of any casualties they have, after the defense forces being able to pick and choose which cases get investigated by the coroner. No photos. No grieving relatives. No stories about what we’re actually doing over there… just a silent loss that nobody is allowed to acknowledge or talk about.

    • Pasupial 29.1

      McFlock

      Thanks for the link. That really seemed to go under everyone’s radar.

      “I think it’s less to do with protecting our forces and their families and more to do with the posturing of the Government trying to over-emphasize the nature and degree of the threat that ISIS pose to New Zealand,” Massey political scientist Damien Rogers said….

      the Defence Minister says not one of the 143 soldiers selected to go to Iraq has pulled out of the mission.

      That’s; “selected to go” not “volunteered to go”, despite previous assurances.

  27. enlightened-treatment of heroin addicts passed into law..

    ..in kentucky – of all fucken places…(!)

    http://whoar.co.nz/2015/kentuckys-new-heroin-law-marks-a-culture-shift/

  28. freedom 31

    A Saturday morning option for Christchurch folk looking for something to do?
    ( Seeing as the Friday Evening session is already over. )
    http://www.futurechristchurch.co.nz/news/victoria-square-meet-the-project-team

  29. Clemgeopin 32

    Northland by-election % result prediction:

    Post YOUR predictions/ % guesstimates here just for fun:
    ———————–
    On 6 March 2015 at 5:26 pm I predicted:

    Mark Osborne : 38%
    Winston Peters : 36%
    Willow-Jean Prime: 21%

    Total Valid Votes 22,000.
    ————————-

    Two fays later, on 8 March 2015 at 10:38 pm I said:

    Mark Osborne : 38%
    Winston Peters : 44%
    Willow-Jean Prime: 13%

    Total Valid Votes 21,000.
    ———————

    Two days ago, 26 March 2015 at 3:19 pm I predicted:

    Winston = 58%
    Osborne =32%
    WJ Prime =09%

    Total Valid Votes 21,000.
    —————
    Now, today, on the eve of the election day, on 27 March at 9:33pm, I am guessing:

    Winston = 59%
    Osborne =32%
    WJ Prime =08%

    Total Valid Votes 28, 000.
    ——————

    HERE below is the advance photo of the winner. Take a look!

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1823/821

    ——————-

    Now Post YOUR predictions / % guesstimates to show your political antenna just for some fun.

  30. millsy 33

    Good luck Winston. The hopes and dreams of New Zealanders opposed to John Key/National are with you. As they are with the New Zealand Cricket Team at the MCG.

  31. Clemgeopin 35

    I saw Penny Bright (I think )on 6 News today, bravely holding a banner for Key, and getting told off too! but I am not sure if it was TV1 or 3.
    Anyone got a link?

  32. millsy 36

    Dont forget the NSW vote as well!

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