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Open mike 28/08/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:55 am, August 28th, 2014 - 283 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmikeOpen mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

283 comments on “Open mike 28/08/2014 ”

  1. Paul 1

    No mention of the Hager lecture in the msm.
    800 attendees.
    Says a lot about the corporate media’s agenda.

    • Tracey 1.1


      I think yesterday marked a turning point in the media. They have given enough time and space to lies and deception of the PM and his govt, now it’s back to assisting them get the campaign back on the “right” track.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1


      • Bob 1.1.2


        I think yesterday marked a turning point in the media. They have given enough time and space to lies and deception of Hager and his politically motivated hacker friend, now it’s back to assisting National and Labour (let’s not forget Labour has dropped as much as National in the polls through this whole episode) get the campaign back on track.


        • Tracey

          No Bob, you changed it to reflect your spoon fed view of the proven behaviour of Slater, Lusk, Bhatnagar, Williams, Collins… With your blinkers on regurgitating nonsense as fact.

          Teach your children well Bob

          • Rob

            “Spooned fed view”, you are the ones spouting the script from a book, what could be more spoon feed than that.

            • framu

              you mean the idea that slater and DPF have been part of the nats paid attack machine? – that idea has been discussed well before hagers book came out – do keep up

            • Tracey

              a book based on evidence from whaledump, you rely oncameron slater/lusk/carrick graham

            • Tracey

              “spoon fed view”

              Reading is quite the issue for some of our anti fact brigade

        • tricledrown

          Bob yeah right Nationals tide has gone out !
          Slatergate is lost National 5% in the polls!
          Now Nationals chances have been seriously damaged by their own septic blogger!
          National have tried to shift the blame from Slater to the left that story is wearing thin as it looks like Slaters nasty comments on West Coast death of the brother of the dead coal miners friends are the ones that have lifted the lid on John Keys dirty tricks!
          Slater has slipped back into the country threatening hacker with police action he will have to dob himself Lusk Ede Collins and by association Key for taking Credit Card details from a private website!

          • Bob

            My reply with a link to the Herald DigiPoll has obviously been sent to moderation, but check it out yourself and tell me who has lost 6.4% since June and who is up .3%? I’ll give you a clue, it doesn’t fit your comment at all.

            “National have tried to shift the blame from Slater to the left that story is wearing thin as it looks like Slaters nasty comments on West Coast death of the brother of the dead coal miners friends are the ones that have lifted the lid on John Keys dirty tricks!”
            What did that comment have to do with Key?

            “Slater has slipped back into the country threatening hacker with police action he will have to dob himself Lusk Ede Collins and by association Key for taking Credit Card details from a private website!” How did you reply to my post? Did you hack my public post to view it? Or was it published an available for anyone to see?
            I agree they shouldn’t have (and from I can see didn’t) use the private information gained, but if you publish something on a website it is public domain. If it is meant to be private then don’t publish the information!
            If I write my bank details on this site under a historic post where no-one should be able to find it without searching, but you do, does that make you a hacker? Or does that make me an idiot for publishing my private details?

            • McFlock

              who’s three or four percent down from the same poll a month before the last election?
              Who could barely scrape together a majority coalition last election?

              Let’s see how winston reconciles baubles with asset sales, eh…

              • Bob

                National and Labour

                Now let’s see you you go:
                Who couldn’t scrape together a majority coalition last election?
                Who requires a corrupt (convicted of fraud, espionage, insider trading and embezzlement), right wing German to form a government if they even get close this time?

                Let’s see how winston reconciles baubles with joining forces with the Mana party, eh…

                • McFlock

                  who says he needs to join forces with mana?
                  confidence and supply is not the same as a seat in cabinet.

                  But you’ve got a hell of a nerve talking about a corrupt new zealand resident when we have cabinet ministers leaking confidential details to one of the most amoral, contemptable and despicable people in the blogosphere. Not to mention the oravida trip, and illegal surveillance of nzers (including the NZ resident you mentioned), and the Environment Canterbury coup d’etat, and the elimination of environmental considerations when removing timber from DoC land, and the super-city debacle, and the holiday highways, and the uneconomic bridges for safe national seats, and the chinese import agent left to hang by Zespri, and so on…

                  Fuck, one fat millionaire pissing off US corporations who can’t adapt to new media is nothing compared with the looters and troughers in this government.

        • framu

          what lies and deception? – please list some

          • Bob

            Collins moving a prisoner for Slater – Lie, and Hager has had to admit it
            Key was briefed about the OIA of the SIS brief re. Phil Goff – Lie, and backed up by Key, SIS Director Warren Tucker and Ombudsman Dame Beverley
            There are two off the top of my head, I suppose it is easy to get details wrong when you are only getting half a story drip fed (as he stated on Q&A 17/08, can’t link as I’ll get put in moderation) from a hacker after being hacked from one scum bags website.

            Remember the outrage here when the GCSB bill was going through, about how when reading private emails things can get taken out of context? Well this is taking it to the nth degree!

            • Tracey

              So you are part of the group who believe that when tucker told beverley he had a discussion with the prime minister he actually meant he had spoken to someone in the prime ministers office who wasnt tge prime minister?

              You are entitled to believe it Bob.

              • Bob

                So you are part of the group who believe that when a hacker drip feed parts of a discussion….oh wait, there was no discussion, only an assumption based on an OIA request from Cameron Slater, with no evidence of anyone telling him to do it and he recieved it quickly because another media organisation had already requested the exact same thing…(hardly a story then is it)…that there is some sort of major conspiracy involving a Labour appointed head of the SIS?

                You are entitled to believe it Tracey.

                • McFlock

                  Bob, you forget that the prime minister said he was told about it.
                  That was before he said he wasn’t told about it.
                  Which was shortly after people pointed out that slater’s coincidentally-precise OIA request was responded to in unheard of quick time, including the declassifying of the relevant documents.
                  After similar requests from other organisations were turned down.

                  You might think that that shit doesn’t stink, and you’re certainly free to do so.
                  But frankly I think it marks you as one of the education system’s obvious failures.

  2. Tracey 2

    “”Someone needs to be held accountable,” he said. ” Mark Mitchell August 2014

    He’s right but everyone keeps looking in the wrong direction for the accountability.

    Perhaps he should sue Slater, but no he’s thinking of suing Hager!

    Why does the right think accountability only relates to poor people and not their own?

    • crocodill 2.1

      “Why does the right think accountability only relates to poor people and not their own?”

      It’s not specifically a right/left thing, it’s the mind-set that lends itself to hierarchical/authoritarian/appeals-to-authority perspectives. It’s a tribal mind-set: the rules apply to the group/tribe, but infractions by outsiders/interlopers do not require equal consideration. Threats to the cohesion of the group from outside the group are always greater than crimes committed inside the group. Some minds believe they are what they believe themselves to be, it’s an over identification with false identity.

      • Tracey 2.1.1

        Thanks for that crocodill. Except it is ACT and many in National who make public statements and direct policy specifically to the notion of “personal accountability” and have a number of MPs who act contrary to it. That was the point I was making. For example, 17%+ of all ACT MPs elected to parliament have been convicted for crimes relating to deceit.

        • crocodill

          That’s a mix of layers of culture and language. What they speak is the dialect of the tribe/group. As you point out, when they say “responsibility” it doesn’t mean the dictionary definition, or your definition, the word is defined by the norms and rules of their group. It can be disorienting for English speakers to hear English spoken and not know what the words and phrases mean, except through experience.

          The Left have their meanings, too. For example there was a post on here yesterday that had among it’s quoted phrases one like, “fiscal responsibility”. Yeah that sounds great, being responsible in your planning with money…but in context it meant, “no/less assistance for those who need it most, the people we said we’d help, but continued support of those who have more than they need.”. It’s all dialect using words that are spelled the same and sound the same, within phrases that are the same in all but meaning.

          What matters most is the action, not the words, and the game for the voter is to use their own experience (but without getting too pessimistic or cynical – thanks, Hagar) to figure out what the dialectal words and phrases mean. Oh yeah, and the meanings don’t stay static either and are adjusted by the order of phrases, or apparent contradictions, and contradiction doesn’t necessarily mean a contradiction through rhetorical error, but merely an adjustment to new meaning…just to make it more challenging. Good luck with your study of the English language!

          • Tracey

            ” It can be disorienting for English speakers to hear English spoken and not know what the words and phrases mean”

            Amen to that… and has become the cornerstone strategy of this National Party

    • karol 2.2

      So he’s not actually going to do it before the election.

      But, in the run up to the election he’s talking big about maybe suing after the election?! Clever!

      • Tracey 2.2.1

        Oh no, he’s busy working hard to win his seat back on the gravy train in Wellington. Funny how he is not upset at Slater and Lusk taking credit for all his hard work.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2

        Which means that he can quietly drop it after the election once everybody (Namely the jonolists) have stopped watching.

  3. has tvnz breakfast jumped the shark..?

    ..the blond-sidekick engaged in an animated conversation..

    ..over which is the more scary..snakes or ghosts…

    ..she sez ghosts are more scary..’cos snakes can be taken away..

    ..whereas with ghosts..?..

    (fuck..!..it was funny..!..but not as she intended..even ‘rawdy’ and the business-person seemed embarrassed for her..)

    • TheContrarian 3.1

      Don’t watch it then. I gave up TV One Breakfast a long time ago (when Paul Henry left – I am not ashamed to admit I found him fucking funny).

      I still watch TV3 in the morning which is bearable though I fear the old guy Michael has Alzheimers

  4. um..!..since yesterday my comments don’t appear..

    ..but seem to go to some limbo..sometimes to turn up later..

    ..am i the only one..?

  5. millsy 5

    The Conservatives are on the verge of cracking 5% on last night’s TV3 poll…

    We should all be worried about the prospect of Garth McVicar and Christine Rankin in Parliament (and possibly cabinet). They are a serious threat to all the progressive gains that have been made in this country since the end of WW2.

    • Paul 5.1

      Wonder if Craig will get the same attacks as Dotcom.
      You know the line…money buys politics.

      • TheContrarian 5.1.1

        Yeah but the difference is Craig is actually standing in, heading and funding his own party.

        • McFlock

          At least KDC is being open about which party he donates to and supports.

          We don’t know which national party candidates pay lusk and slater for hatchet jobs against their opponents.

          • TheContrarian

            Cool. But we are talking about Craig Vis-à-vis Dotcom.

            • McFlock

              fair enough.

              Another difference between the two is that KDC probably believes in evolution and the moon landings.

              • TheContrarian

                Cool. But we are talking about the difference between Craig funding a party he is heading, running and standing for and Dotcom who is merely funding a party.

                • McFlock

                  I’d say that “merely” funding a party with policies beyond narrow self interest – especially lump sums up front – implies greater security and less of a tendency to micro-manage than insisting on being main backer, leader, dripfeeder of finance, and “face” of essentially a vanity project.

    • Tracey 5.2

      Well, the morally outraged on the right who had decided to vote nats have few places to go…

      The undecideds interest me. I couldn’t see that in the Poll coverage last night.

      • Paul 5.2.1

        Typical poor polling information

      • ScottGN 5.2.2

        TV3 news page says the undecideds are 9%.
        Interestingly given that ACT is at 0.3% in this poll (and a seat is worth roughly 0.7% of the vote) at what point does them winning Epsom deliver an overhang seat?

        • Tracey

          That I don’t know. Can you link me to that tv3 page? Also what were the undecideds in the previous Reid TV3 poll, do you know?

          national may have to meet again to decide the following;

          IF Colin’s party got a seat and 4.5% of the vote would that be of greater benefit to them than, say ACT?

          • ScottGN

            Here you are. It’s right at the bottom of the article.

          • ScottGN

            Won’t post my link to TV3 for some reason but the poll breakdown is at the bottom of the article “Latest Poll a Big Blow for John Key” on their news page.

          • ScottGN

            For some reason TV3 has allocated two seats to the Maori Party on the strength of 0.7% of the party vote. It’s either a mistake or they reckon that MP will win two electorate seats in which case, along with ACT this poll suggests an overhang of two seats, requiring 62 seats to form a government. In other words National’s little helpers are cancelling themselves out.

            3 News-Reid Research poll:
            August 19-25, 1000 people polled, margin of error 3.1 percent
            National 45 percent, down 2.5 percent
            Labour 26.4 percent, down 2.6 percent
            Greens 13.5 percent, up 0.5 percent
            NZ First 6.3 percent, up 1.7 percent
            Conservative 4.6 percent, up 2.1 percent
            Internet Mana 2.1 percent, up 0.1 percent
            Maori Party 0.7 percent, down 0.1 percent
            United Future 0.4 percent, up 0.2 percent
            ACT 0.3 percent, no change
            Seats in the house:
            National 57
            ACT 1
            United Future 1
            Maori Party 2
            Right total: 61
            Labour 33
            Greens 17
            Internet Mana 3
            Left total: 53
            NZ First 8
            Preferred Prime Minister:
            John Key 41.4 percent, down 2.7 percent
            David Cunliffe 11.1 percent, up 1.2 percent
            Should John Key stand Judith Collins down?
            Yes 63 percent
            No 28 percent
            Don’t know 9 percent
            National voters:
            Yes 43 percent
            No 46 percent
            Don’t know 9 percent
            3 News

            Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/decision14/latest-political-poll-big-blow-for-john-key#ixzz3BdX0WrBv

        • alwyn

          In 2011 the last seat went with a quota of 9048.171.
          If there was the same number of votes this time that would mean that, assuming ACT get one electorate seat, it would be an overhang seat if their party vote was less than 9049.
          0.3% is about 7,000 so it would be in this case. If they got 0.4% on the other hand they would be entitled to a seat and it wouldn’t be an overhang.

    • tc 5.3

      Its just another questionable poll that conveniently fits the narrative, funny that.

      Watch the rest of the poodles run with it like smellstrong who at least is pointing out labours sound policy platform.

      note to JA; its over 20/9 not after 1 debate hosted by a personality who has admitted his love of national.

      • Enough is Enough 5.3.1

        The narrative from Paddy Gower was that John Key has taken a hit from Dirty Politics. Do you not agree with that?

      • Tigger 5.3.2

        The margin of error means the might be under half this percentage so grains of salt all around.

    • Flipnz 5.4

      Yep. The left should plan for Conservatives being in Parliament. They have a constituency. Dirty Politics is playing into their hands. They will go with the party with the most votes which is likely to be Nats. That is why the Nats are not doing a deal, they’ll get them anyway for at least confidence and supply.

      Interesting times.

      • Tracey 5.4.1

        and so the party which has as its foundation a desire to be our moral backbone, will go with the party shown to be the most immoral currently in NZ. Will they just accept key’s word that it has all changed now I wonder

        • Murray Olsen

          Morals are for solo mums and unemployed bludgers, not for god’s chosen conservatives. Besides, didn’t some bloke on a donkey say something about forgiving people their sins? And didn’t he cavort with prostitutes and thieves? It’s the least Colon can do. It’s obvious the bloke on the donkey would go with Key.

    • BM 5.5

      As expected National took a bit of a hit, labour took a bigger hit as everyone sees they’re pushing the dirty politics campaign and can’t believe the utter hypocrisy of the vote positive line labour are trying to run.
      It’s become a they’re just as bad as each other scenario

      Craig and Peters are definitely the winners here, don’t think John Key will be too upset by all this

      • Tracey 5.5.1

        Fuck morality, aye BM? That’s what you’ve taught your kids I assume?

        • Rich

          It’s a meme and it looks like it’s been paid for, I’m getting it from elsewhere as well.

      • mickysavage 5.5.2

        BM how about you point out where Labour has pushed the dirty politics campaign? In my view Labour has been extremely restrained.

        Of course the last defence National has is that Labour does it too. It is a sign they have run out of other defences.

        • Tracey

          “It’s become a they’re just as bad as each other scenario”

          That’s how they can reconcile their support for such practices. As if the right wouldn’t have published everything they had on similar behaviour if they had it. I mean Whaleoil is dredging back to 2013 to get something on a rapper. BM hasnt read the book, so he can stay in his delusion fed by the lines of Slater or is it Lusk or is it Graham

          • Bob

            I was talking to my father in-law the other night, he is normally a Labour supporter but with all of the talk of Dirty Politics, kids shouting “fuck John Key”, songs about killing John Key and having sex with his daughter and what seams to be an organised campaign were only National hoardings are being attacked, he has said he is sick of it all from both sides and is going to vote for Winston Peters. He is a life long Labour voter.

            It’s only one person, but if you think it is only National being caught up in the Slater / Dotcom style dirty politics I think you may be mistaken.

            • Tracey


              How do you know what is dirty when you wont read about it?

              Slater laid a police complaint so that proves the whaledump material is genuine.

              • Bob


                I have read all about Internet-Mana putting up a “Fuck John Key” video, I have read all about and listened to the song saying “Kill the Prime Minister” and “Going to fuck his daughter”, do you condone this behavior Tracey?

                Yes, by the looks of things his computer was genuinely hacked, and bits and pieces “drip feed” (according to Hager himself) were leaked to Hager and taken in the context that he wanted too. Two of his most damaging claims have already been thoroughly debunked, did you read about that? That’s right, it’s all a big conspiracy! You should vote Colin Craig, he is the conspiracy lover!

            • weka

              Bob, that’s the most depressing thing I’ve read in the whole saga. Does your father in law understand that voting for NZF will give the election to National? Is that what he wants?

              • McFlock

                what makes you think Bob’s formerly-labour-voting father in law even exists?

                • weka

                  it’s toss up really. On the one hand it’s hard to believe anyone could be so stupid. One the other hand, this is NZ voters we’re talking about.

                  • Bob

                    “it’s toss up really. On the one hand it’s hard to believe anyone could be so stupid”
                    Don’t worry, for the past 12 years I’ve let him know he is stupid for voting Labour, finally he is actually doing something about it!

              • Bob

                He doesn’t care too much this year, he doesn’t like David Cunliffe and he doesn’t like John Key so he just wants Winston to “keep them honest” whoever gets in.

      • Enough is Enough 5.5.3

        Certainly John Key will not be too upset. I would have expected a much bigger hit then this.

        This means Labour still needs to drop a policy bomb. Something that will resonate with all voters. Dirty Politics saga will not win the election for us. We need a big policy announcement. Hopefully this weekend.

        • Tracey

          wait to see what the undecideds did, or didnt do. This poll, it appears to me, shows some bleeding from those already committed to vote to National, to other right parties.

          • Enough is Enough

            At which point do you think those undecided will suddenly work out that Key is a crook, if they have not worked that out already?

            • BM

              The undecideds will either not vote or vote for one of the minor parties.

              Craig will be in parliament this time around, I reckon the media will start pushing him, no more Crazy Colin stuff.

              • Tracey

                they had you in mind when politicians decided polls were better than education I think…\

              • weka

                “I reckon the media will start pushing him, no more Crazy Colin stuff.”

                Will they tape his mouth shut then?

                I think you underestimate the MSM glee at people who can’t help but make dicks of themselves so they can be laughed at. Whyte would be the other classic example.

            • Tracey

              well one recent poll (HT swordfish) analysis had undecideds at about 10%. Could be undecided for a bunch of reasons. My point is that if undecideds have shift in the poll from last night then it is not good news for the left cos they have gone NZF and Conservatives.

              reid Research from February 2014

              National – 44.5 percent, down 1.9 percent
              Labour – 33.5 percent, up 1.3 percent
              Greens – 12.4 percent, up 2 percent
              NZ First – 5.7 percent, up 1.5 percent
              Conservative – 2.1 percent, down 0.7 percent
              Maori Party – 1 percent, down 0.2 percent
              Mana – 0.3 percent, down 1 percent
              ACT – 0 percent, down 0.8 percent
              United Future – 0 percent, down 0.1 percent

              Reid last night (no undecideds included/polled)

              National 45.0% (-2.5%)
              Labour 26.3% (-2.6%)
              Green 13.5% (+0.5%)
              ACT 0.3% (nc)
              Maori 0.7% (-0.1%)
              United Future 0.4% (+0.2%)
              Mana/Internet 2.1% (+0.1%)
              NZ First 6.3% (+1.7%)
              Conservative 4.6% (+2.1%)

              • nadis

                thats a very interesting comparison Tracey and not at all what I would have expected. The only substantive change is a leakage from Labour to IMP, Conservatives, NZfirst and the Greens, so theres a bit of leftward leakage from Labour as well as rightward.

                As I say, quite counter-intuitive, but pretty bad for Labour in a strategic sense. Six months of planning, strategising, campaigning and engaging, and it just isn’t working.

                • Tracey

                  Internet mana didnt exist in february though, so need to account for that too.

                  • nadis

                    I think it is accounted for because its included in the later poll. They weren’t an option then, they are an option now.

                    It looks like what we will see – and this I am guessing will be a major component of Nationals advertising – is demonisation of IMP, painting them as a radical, dangerous, tail wagging dog coalition partner for Labour. It will improve IMP polling but at the expense of Labour/Greens. Any extreme party (right or left) that gets momentum probably does as much to shore up vote for the other bloc as it does for their own. The middle voters drift away.

        • BM

          People have switched off to Labour.
          Cunliffe could promise free unicorns for everyone and no one would take any notice.

          Sorry for being a Man killed Labour stone dead.

          • Tracey

            Is that your big pronoucement BM? If so you are very late on the scene to that conclusion. many here have already posted for ages they are not voting labour.

            • BM

              That comment was to Enough is Enough and why a big policy announcement won’t make any difference to Labour.

              As I said no one will be listening.

          • Foreign waka

            No, what is killing labor is sheer fear by the wider public and the safe haven of conservatism. Unfortunately, NZ does not have the history or collective memory that such a move always is like a shot in the knee. Fear is everywhere and fear is a bad adviser.

      • North 5.5.4

        “Mantra Mantra Mantra” from Bowel Motion…..Linus’s Blanket ?

      • tricledrown 5.5.5

        Matthew Hooton said recently taking all the polls over the last 12 years National polled 5% less on election day in every election since 2003!

    • Draco T Bastard 5.6

      So, people who are upset by the corruption in National as shown in Dirty Politics run to a political party that has nowhere else to go but National?

      • Tracey 5.6.1

        and portrays itself as the conscience of the nation…

        • Clemgeopin

          Conscience of convenience.

        • Flipnz

          I think you’ll find that they have other points of difference from National that play well. (see Lochinvar).

          So if the Nats do end up with them the ‘horse trading’ to form a Gov it will be interesting but I think Nats will do it. The Conservatives social/moral concerns will be thrown over to referendum to bind us to a ‘moral majority’.

          Never mind the Greens being ‘dangerous for the country’ as Garth George liked to say.

          I suspect their economic concerns will not go to referendum though TPPA might. I do not see them as a fan of globalization but a champion of small businesses.

          Caricaturing them can blind you to a threat that needs combating. Beware.

  6. Paul 6

    Anyone noticed that John Key’s spin merchants have told him to replace ‘at the end of the day’ with ‘in the end’?
    The new go to expression for Key.

    • Andy Monniker 6.1

      Even “In the end…” is a justification for the use of questionable means:

      In the end the saturation bombing of German cities helped bring about the downfall of Hitler.

      In the end the mass surveillance of emails might catch a terrorist.

      In the end lying and deceiving might prevent the election of a socialist Government which would be a disaster for the country.

      The person using the phrase might, indeed probably, does believe what he is saying but it indicates a moral and ethical flaw in the speaker. IMHO.

    • Tracey 6.2

      ?..and the right wing saps are back in force here today

  7. North 7

    Get this perfect piece of poop from ‘Father of the Nation’ Garth George:


    • Tracey 7.1

      he hasnt read the book. hasnt read any Hager book but still bases an entire article on it.

      “”I have tried really, really hard to read Nicky Hager’s books … But I have never been able to do it. They make my head hurt. They go 2 plus 2 is 17, the square root of 73 is 6, 12 times 12 is 50.”

      And then Mr George goes on to take 2 plus 2 to make 17…

      He repeats the myth that Hager said that Hide was blackmailed to resign by Lusk and Slater. Not true. My recollection is he specifically stated he didnt know if they went through with their plan. BUT not having read it, Mr George wouldn’t know that. he thinks all Slater and Lusk et al were doing was posting some stuff to a blog. He is out of his depth in this article because he doesn’t understand the way the media was manipulated by that blog and the national party and he doesn’t understand that because his prejudice won’t allow him to read any of Hager’s books.

      he is sctahing of Collins, but not of Key’s, association with WO

      “Why anyone would bother to read Slater’s far-right and often obnoxious ramblings I have no idea, but it seems he has a bit too much support from some people in government, particularly Justice Minister Judith Collins.

      She is said to be on a “last chance” from Prime Minister John Key after various missteps and it is not surprising that she is maintaining a low profile while this trivial controversy continues to rage.

      Mr Key says Ms Collins is the subject of a left-wing smear campaign, yet it seems to me that our Minister of Justice has put so many feet wrong in the past couple of years that she has lost the confidence of the electorate.

      I doubt whether she will last in the National regime; she has certainly blotted her copybook often enough to have lost any chance of ever being leader and thus Prime Minister. For which we can all be thankful since she seems to stand slightly to the right of Ruth Richardson.”

      And his final piece of resistance? A snide attack on MMP

      Garth George: Hager – much ado about nothing

      By Garth George
      5:00 AM Wednesday Aug 27, 2014 Add a comment

      Like on Facebook 2
      Post on LinkedIn 0
      +1 on Google+ 0

      Why would anyone bother to read Cameron Slater’s far-right and often obnoxious ramblings? Why would anyone bother to read Cameron Slater’s far-right and often obnoxious ramblings?

      And so it goes on … and on … and on – the kerfuffle over the big, fat, smelly red herring cast into the election campaign by Nicky Hager, that obsessive anti-establishment scribbler who seems to surface only when the chances of self-aggrandisement are at their highest.

      The sudden and unheralded release of his book, Dirty Politics – and if there were ever a tautology, then that is it – has been blown up out of all proportion to its importance by the media – TV, radio and, unfortunately, newspapers – in an exhibition of tabloid journalism that brings them no credit whatsoever.

      “How attack politics is poisoning New Zealand’s political environment” is the subtitle to this document, as if none of us knew that our political environment has been slowly succumbing to the poison of personalities before principles for at least the past 30 years.

      About the only thing we can say about it is that we’re lucky that so far it hasn’t become as poisonous as politics elsewhere, such as Australia, Britain, France and the United States.

      Nevertheless, we seem to be catching up fast.

      It has certainly become worse since we benightedly voted in the MMP system with its arcane alliances of disparate parties leading to all sorts of political shenanigans.”

      Enjoy your retirement Mr George and please, REALLY retire from journalism this time.

      • Tracey 7.1.1

        Page 70 Dirty Politics

        “there were of course various political pressures on Hide as he made the decision but the threats described here were something completely different. The documents do not contain the texts and we do not know that they exist. There is also no evidence that a direct was made to Hide. Nonetheless, Slater and Lusk’s planning and thinly veiled threat on the blog post go far beyond normal politics. They feel more like blackmail.

        my emphasis

        Those without an axe to grind against Mr Hager would, imo, read that to be a commentary on Lusk and Slater’s intentions and behaviour and admonishing that, regardless of whether any actual blackmail attempt was made. And that Ms Collins and PM (and his office) Key associate with this guy, including spoeaking with him about matters on his blog. (I look to Key’s comment about the woman on the west coast on tv the other day “I to him that I knew her”.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.2

        Enjoy your retirement Mr George and please, REALLY retire from journalism this time.

        I’m kinda figuring that the NZHerald pulled him back just so that he could help start the process of rehabilitating National.

  8. Ant 8

    Is Cunliffe being set up with people as examples who contradict the policy he is trying to sell?

    I doubt the party leader is jacking this up because he would be too busy, but if you are going to trot out real people wouldn’t you want them on message too? Isn’t this the second or third time this has happened?


    • Crashcart 8.1

      Not sure how they contradict the poicy. They looked to buy a house but in the current environment there is no way they can do that. For that reason they are not currently looking. They are instead saving and in a few years when Labour’s policy is starting to bear fruit they will be able to look at purchasing a more affordable house. Under NACT’s policy they may be able to scrimp together a deposit but it will be for a house that will be far more expensive and will burden them with a crushing amount of debt. Looks like they tick all of the boxes.

      Of course if you were the Herald and wanted to spin it in the worst possible light you would only point out that they are currently not looing for a home and ham that up for everything it is worth.

      It has been a particularly bad day for the Herald spin machine. Two editorials telling us how National can still win the election despite the evil nasty smear that is being aimed at them and a deliberate attempt to try and undermine a policy that Labor outshine NACT on by not actually atacking the policy but a couple chosen to represent those it is aimed at.

  9. dv 9

    Don’t forget the Nats poll has always be about 5% higher than election night.
    The puts them close to 40%

  10. North 10

    Herald this morning has an article from the Bay of Plenty Times from the pen of ‘Father of The Nation’ Garth George – “Hager – Much Ado About Nothing” – with bonus pic of SlaterPorn.

    Attempted to link but no-can-do message comes up – “Identified as Spam”. Doesn’t say whether that’s Father or SP or both. Ne’er mind – good picking The Standard !

    Hard case article though. Much revilement of SlaterPorn and demand for the loathsome Collins’ head on a plate. My…….how unfaithful you are Father……

    [Up now North – MS]

  11. Te Reo Putake 11

    Bella Henry is either the greatest satirist New Zealand has ever seen or her Dad Paul has just invented a new form of child abuse:


    ‘Get the whales to scooch over so we can get their oil.’ Just goes to show how little a private school education can actually do for the thick kids of the rich.

    Ps: since when is interviewing people you have power over such as your children and your employees count as ‘balance’?

  12. philj 13

    Disappointed (again!) in Guyons line of questioning of Winston on RNZ this morning. On RNZ National, I am hearing more and more interviewer ‘opinions’ in framing the questions that are asked of guests. The result is that we find out what Guyon or Suzie thinks is going on!!. Very concerning. Their ‘views’ are not balanced and its unprofessional. The public deserve a higher standard of journalism from its ‘National’ State Broadcaster.The tone and standard of Mourning (sp intended) Report has changed for the worse. Bring back Geof!

    • framu 13.1

      the interviews have descended into farce on RNZ

      • Karen 13.1.1

        And on Morning Report this morning Colin Craig was able to say his rise in the polls was because of people being turned off by “Dirty Politics.” He should have been asked, if that was the case, why he intends propping up a National government, the very party that has indulged in dirty politics to a degree never seen before in NZ.
        But no, he was given a soft interview in stark contrast to the aggressive interview style with David Cunliffe.

        • Tracey

          yup. pretty obvious follow up question…

          He will have to start telling us how he and his lil band of followers will hold key back from his back room strategy? Leash? They will need tasers!

          • Draco T Bastard

            He will have to start telling us how he and his lil band of followers will hold key back from his back room strategy?

            They won’t – they’ll be cheering Key and National on in the back rooms while publicly saying something else.

  13. Draco T Bastard 20

    Significant fallout from Dirty Politics allegations

    Large numbers of New Zealanders are aware of and talking about the issues raised as a result of the publication of Nicky Hager’s book, Dirty Politics, according to results of an August 18-25 HorizonPoll of 1,752 adults nationwide.

    By large majorities they find dirty politics unacceptable and would prefer them not to be practised:

    They are unacceptable to 59.9% of adults and acceptable to 25.8% as a part of overall political behaviour.

    National should be getting a hiding in the polls about now.

    • Tracey 20.1

      And yet they are not which is very curious indeed.

    • Foreign waka 20.2

      why? There are many people who either don’t care, have such behavior as part of their culture or both. What is really worrying is the fact that everybody is referring to Mr Slater in one way or another. Who on earth has appointed this low life to any position to speak on anyone’s behalf? Who are these commentators who try to shape the opinion of so many with their slanted view of the world? Can we register them and their means of undue influence and hold them accountable if we degrade further as a nation?

  14. Te Reo Putake 21

    sd gbnx hb zhWVC

  15. Tracey 24

    So now Miss Bella Henry (daughter of Paul Henry) is an “ordinary New Zealander”? (according to TV3

    “Neither do the ordinary New Zealanders the Paul Henry Show will be talking to between now and the September 20 election.

    These are hard-working Kiwis who care about what’s happening in the world, but who are also far too busy to be bogged down in the detail of what politicians are up to.

    Last week we met Graham from Napier, who is one of Paul’s political panellists the Paul Henry Show will be hearing from again in the run up to the election.

    But tonight Bella, Paul’s youngest daughter, gives her views on matters of political interest – not matters of interest to her – but the political stories captivating the media.
    And just like Graham, she’ll be voting because she knows it’s important to, but her pre-occupation is not politics – it’s getting on with her own life.

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/paulhenryshow/political-opinions-of-your-average-kiwi—bella-2014082600#ixzz3BcwSPvE0

    • mickysavage 24.1

      Amazing film. Lets interview people who have no idea of what is happening because their views are important instead of spending that time presenting the issue.

    • Clemgeopin 24.2

      Graham is Paul Henry’s gardener! The girl is his (Henry’s) daughter.

      Pathetic journalism!

    • Once Was Tim 24.3

      Gawd strewth!!! Just watched it. I’m bloody surprised Rebecca Wright agreed to do it – but I ‘spose she doesn’t have much choice in today’s media-star environment. It’s just as well Bella is 18 (going on 15), or that’d be the closest thing to child abuse I’ve seen in a while.
      Still, it’s all about Paul, and any & every ego extension available.
      Poor fuckn wife! Does she have a life I wonder?
      It reminds me somewhat of all those American parents putting their toddlers up for beauty pageants. I suspect I-I-I-me-me-me Paul has been wondering for a while how the fook he was going to get Bella (he’s so proud of her) into the media. Shit …. here we go …. along comes an erection ooops eLection. Perfuck opportunity.
      Shame on you. Pump your ego up much more and it’ll pop

      • Murray Olsen 24.3.1

        I managed about a third of it. It was appalling. What little Bella does know is just picked up from her moran father’s prejudices. I’d say 18 going on 12. She’ll go far and maybe even become a NAct minister. After all, she’s probably brighter than Paula Benefat.

      • Rodel 24.3.2

        Once was Tim
        I think you mean, ‘Poor fuckn wives! Do they have lives I wonder?’

        And Bella- poor Bella. It really is like child abuse.

        I’m so glad Henry isn’t my dad- Graham Henry maybe Not Paul..please God!

  16. Jenny Kirk 25


    The above is the link to an Horizon Poll of 1752 people announced today

    “More want the Prime Minister to launch an independent inquiry into the book’s allegations than not take this action (45.9% support, 24.7% oppose). However, more think he should stay in office rather than resign over the allegations made in the book. …………………….
    Large numbers of New Zealanders are feeling angry, disappointed and disgusted as a result of the Prime Minister’s management of the issues raised in the book in the 12 days from its first publication. The results indicate the Prime Minister, John Key, has made 135,700 people who voted National in 2011 feel angry, or disappointed or disgusted. This is 12.8% of those who voted National at the last election. …………
    In this survey, conducted after the release of the “Dirty Politics” book, National retains only 82% of those who said in July/August they would give their party vote to the National Party. Note that around 8% of those who said in the July/August poll they would vote for National are now undecided about which party they will give their party vote to…………………

  17. Jenny Kirk 26

    It took me a while to get the Horizon Poll details up onto Open Mike – as above at 11.

    And although it states that 8% of people who voted Nats last time are undecided, I’m thinking that if the MSM continues to allow ShonKey a reasonable say without questionning him or being persistent, then those undecideds will flow back into the National fold on election day.

    And it does look as if all the publicity about Dirty Politics has taken attention away from Labour’s policy announcements. That’s disappointing, and disturbing.

    • Tracey 26.1

      and the media started that yesterday giving him final right of reply in news items on Prime and TV3

    • Karen 26.2

      I think the drop in Labour’s support is due to the almost total lack of coverage for Labour in either TV3 or TVNZ news over the last couple of weeks (apart from responding to “Dirty Politics”). I don’t usually watch TV news because it is a waste of time, but I decided to see the reactions to “Dirty Politics.” What I discovered was that Labour was unable to get coverage of policy announcements, and I suspect Key’s constantly repeated “left wing smear campaign” refrain has managed to smear Labour with some swinging voters.

    • Tracey 26.3

      Take some heart the ” I think new Zealanders will decide what tot hink about all this” line has failed

      “73.7% believe that, if it is true as alleged in the book that a member of the staff of Prime Minister John Key’s office accessed confidential information held in a Labour Party web site, the behaviour is unacceptable.

      They tend to believe the Prime Minister knew in advance about attacks on political opponents planned by pro-National bloggers and that the bloggers did not act totally independently of the National-led government.”

      and they seem to see through media bias?

      “More than half of adult New Zealanders (53.1%) believe mainstream media (newspapers, radio and television) have failed to act impartially in relation to material provided to them by bloggers. While 40.9% are not sure whether the media’s coverage of all aspects of the allegations made in Mr Hager’s book has been adequate, there is a small tendency to believe that it has not been.

      Respondents tend to support the use of hacked e-mails and social media information of blogger Cameron Slater in the public interest than oppose it based on the information allegedly being private and obtained illegally.”

  18. Tracey 27

    “A key policy plank for NZ First and the Conservative Party has been given a boost after two thirds of voters said they believed citizens-initiated referenda should be binding on a Government.

    The Herald DigiPoll survey showed 66 per cent of respondents agreed such referenda should be binding while 22 per cent said they should not.”

    2/3 of voters DID NOT say they believed referenda should be binding. 2/3 of people polled. I do wish they would make the differentiation

    HOWEVER MR “anything to be in power” will be very interested n this I am sure…. any seats they can offer to Colins party so he can bring back a subjective defence for beating your children”

  19. Ross 28

    Video of yesterday’s Nicky Hager public meeting.

  20. Dont worry. Be happy 29

    Invalid votes….ever made one?

    This has been on my mind for a while. Pete Hodgson had some numbers on it once I believe and they were pretty high. In the thousands I think.

    Anyway, this came into sharp focus for me recently talking to four women aged around 30.

    They all intended to vote this election.

    They all voted last election.

    The catch is only one was enrolled to vote.

    They were under the mistaken opinion that being given a special vote on voting day and voting for their party and candidate of choice meant that they had voted. Not so.

    • Jenny Kirk 29.1

      Can you tell your friends, Draco – that from 3 Sept they are able to enrol and vote early at the same time. The Returning Officer in each electorate will have special polling booths available.

  21. hoom 30

    Headline “Super blow for Auckland ratepayers”
    First paragraph

    The Super City has been costly for residents of the former Auckland City Council who have been hammered by a new single rating system designed to put everyone on the same footing.

    Following contents ‘rich suburbs pay higher rates, poor suburbs pay lower rates’ ie the way it should actually be with a unified rating system.

    • Tracey 30.1

      And mr seymour today wrote to the people of epsom demanding it be changed and remove the threat to “our” schools in epsom.

  22. tinfoilhat 31

    I can see this pushing more struggling families out of Auckland.


  23. Pete 32

    While voting intention shifts from poll to poll, National’s level of retention this year of those who said they intended to cast their party vote for the National Party at the next election had been particularly strong in polls conducted by Horizon up to the July/August survey (before the Hager book’s release), at around 92%. In this survey, conducted after the release of the “Dirty Politics” book, National retains only 82% of those who said in July/August they would give their party vote to the National Party.

    Note that around 8% of those who said in the July/August poll they would vote for National are now undecided about which party they will give their party vote to.

    p.3, Political Conduct Survey, Horizon Research, August 2014

    • Colonial Viper 32.1

      Only a fraction of those need to decide to leave National say 2% to 3%, and Key is history.

  24. yeshe 33

    In High Court today, seeking to delay the election on some interesting factual grounds … denying votes to all prisoners …


  25. yeshe 34

    In the High Court today … interesting facts calling for postponement of election until resolution of issue of human rights in denying votes to all prisoners .. with Te Tiriti …


  26. tinfoilhat 35

    The blog appears to be behaving very strangely – comments disappearing into the ether ?

  27. framu 36

    another groaner from trevvet – how she even has a job writing this crap is beyond me. Such poorly argued BS

  28. weka 38

    Have I dropped into the spam void?

  29. Weepus beard 39


    Beverley Wakem laying the groundwork for retrospective legislation legitimising John Key’s hands off/didn’t see it lie about the speedy SIS OIA release to Slater.

  30. Weepus beard 40

    The Chief Ombudsman will launch an investigation into the way the Official Information Act is being used after the election and will include a probe into ministerial offices as part of the inquiry.

    The probe comes in the wake of Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics and questions over OIA information provided to Whaleoil blogger Cameron Slater.

    Chief Ombudsman Dame Beverley Wakem said issues which would be examined included government departments having to seek “sign off” from their ministers before releasing information when there was no reason to do so.

    She said there was “excessive reference upwards for approval” to release information when there was no good reason for doing so.

    The Act was intended to increase Government and ministers’ accountability to the public while allowing citizens to have a greater input into decision-making. It was passed in 1982, came into force two years later and has now been operating for 30 years.

    Dame Beverley, who did not want to comment on Hager’s book, said issues before the Office of the Ombudsman raised concerns about the capacity to handle requests and policies used by departments, rather than any alleged rorting of the system. “I haven’t observed anything sinister.

    “I have observed unnecessary steps and referrals upwards. I have heard of at least five layers of approval before something can be released. That’s absurd.”

    She said the unnecessary upwards delays included referrals to ministers for approval to release information. There were also offices which had “delayed things beyond what is reasonable” while others did “incredibly well”.

    “There’s actually fundamentally nothing wrong with the Act. What is wrong is the execution.

    “It is people’s understanding of the act and understanding of how to use it.” She said many public service staff with expertise in the Act had been “rinsed” out of the system. She said there was an impact on staff with experience “if there’s not very many of them left doing this” and they received a heavy load of requests each day.

    Dame Beverley — a former Radio NZ chief executive — pointed to the public service sinking lid, saying “there’s only so much blood out of a stone”.

    She said the office, which had previously told select committees it was cash-strapped, was “approaching having enough money”.

    In the past two years, she said extra resources had gone into training for public service staff with positive effect.

    Dame Beverley, who is president of the International Ombudsman Institute, said she had been tempted to publish a league table of best-to-worst agencies, as other bodies did abroad.

    “We haven’t resorted to that in New Zealand but each day that goes by it becomes more tempting.” She said the framework of the inquiry had been completed and it would be launched in the next few months.

    – NZ Herald

    Beverley Wakem laying the groundwork for retrospective legislation legitimising John Key’s hands off/didn’t see it lie about the speedy SIS OIA release to Slater.

    I’m sure the reference by this National party stooge to the departments that did “incredibly well” include the SIS ministry and Prime Minister’s office.

    • Kiwiri 40.1

      Thanks for this.

    • Tracey 40.2

      Isnt she contradicting mr tuckers claim that approval didnt go to the PM. She says it clearly has to go right to the top first. Could be she wants to remove that as a potential or actual point of political interference?

      • Weepus beard 40.2.1

        From reading a few other articles about her it seems she’s against the difficulty in releasing information quickly to the public and as she said above, calling the several layers of approval as “absurd”.

        That she’s unhappy with the inconsistency in the release of information is nice overall, particularly in terms of the withholding of information she believes the public are entitled to, what she’s not addressing is the careful delaying for some and releasing for others which is what this episode is all about.

        If this is the kind of confusion and suspicion of subterfuge that can result the the Act looks loose to me and lacks clarity. Fine, re-legislate, but still investigate the 90 minute Slater OIA vigorously.

        And, if ministers are to be taken out of the loop, then who does she propose to be responsible for the release of information. Jason Ede types?

  31. lprent 41

    Hunting the issue that is throwing comments into spam

  32. Olwyn 42

    I think this coming election could be framed not just as “right versus left” but as “post-democracy versus democracy.” If David Shearer had remained Labour Party leader it would essentially be a post-democratic election, not because of anything particularly wrong with him, but because he was chosen with the approval of the opinion makers, after a short time in parliament, as a ‘face’ rather than a real leader of Labour. The small parties on the left and NZ first would still be democratic of course, but would lack the grunt to alter the post-democratic direction. And if Hager hadn’t written his book, we would not know just how far down the post-democratic road we have already come.

    The speculation that Bennett may replace Key as National’s leader, should Key decide to vamoose, suggests that the right and their media flunkies assume a post-democratic future. Not someone like Joyce, who might think he has actual power, but someone who can be packaged and sold, who is willing to take directions and is attracted by celebrity status.

    We may not even be able to save democracy, it may already be too late, but it is crucial that we try. We are lucky that Labour has Cunliffe as leader. We are lucky that the Greens do not seem to be suborned, that Hager wrote his book, and that IMP is there to shake things up. We cannot take this luck for granted. We must keep up our enthusiasm under pressure, and work to get the vote out.

    • Draco T Bastard 42.1


      For the last 30+ years the capitalists have been, through neo-liberal policies and privatisation, been taking us back to being a feudal society. We have to stop it now.

      • TheContrarian 42.1.1

        Capitalism =/= neo-liberalism

        And who are “the capitalists”? I’m a capitalist but not a neo-liberal capitalist. Am I “the capitalists”?

        • Enough is Enough

          Please don’t bait Draco by asking him these questions.

          I am a proud lefty who will always advocate for an equal society. But I do find his hyperbole about the psychopathic capitalism a little crae crae.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Throughout recorded history the greedy buggers, otherwise known as capitalists, have worked the system to gather the wealth into their own hands. This is not hyperbole as Piketty shows with his research – as wealth accumulates to the few more wealth accumulates to those few. Interest and percentile based returns on investment ensures that those returns exceed the return to labour and that they are exponential.

            The inevitable result of capitalism is the collapse of society.

            • TheContrarian

              So are all greedy buggers capitalists now? Was there no greed before capitalism? Are there non-capitalists who are greedy?

              You’re not making any sense because you haven’t defined your terms (hint: “the capitalists” is not a defined term)

        • Draco T Bastard

          I have absolutely NFI WTF you are but you obviously can’t read.

          • TheContrarian

            No I can read just fine.

            Once again (I’ll spell it out properly for you – and this has been spelt out for you before):

            All neo-liberalism is capitalism but not all capitalism is neo-liberal. StatementS like “the capitalists” make no sense because it can’t be used to refer to a single group of people with a single ideology.

            Can you read that properly?

            (By the way – I’m a social democrat who believes in the Nordic Model of capitalism)

  33. joe90 43

    11.45 segment – Plunket compared dirty politics to Watergate.


  34. yeshe 44

    Worn down by all the dirt ? This is to get moving after the weight of all the filth, to be refreshed and re-inspired !

    Brilliant song from1982, by the inspired Kokomo .. without doubt the best Bristish soul band ever; includes some members of Joe Cocker’s Grease Band and all of what was originally Arrival. Incredible vocals and rhythym section.

    Rise and Shine …. perfect lyrics for today .. . Please enjoy the dancing and be re-inspired …


    • weka 44.1


      • yeshe 44.1.1

        hope you enjoy it as much as me … these are dear friends of mine from way back .. and the track is perfect for today and what is to come I think !! left you a link down below for some funny carol burnett you might like too .. but who knows where it will show up with the way the page is going today !

      • yeshe 44.1.2

        trying again with carol burnett laughter for you ..


        • Belladonna

          Thanks yeshe, have liked that Tim Conway skit for years. Great to see it again.

    • joe90 44.2

      I went to a concert at The Roundhouse in London close to forty years ago with Kokomo on the bill but alas, memories have faded and the only thing I can recall about the evening is the Canadian girl.

  35. Man in a Barrel 45



    “A powerful new technology revolution is emerging that is going to fundamentally alter our economic life. The Communication Internet is converging with an embryonic Energy Internet and Logistics Internet to create a new technology platform — the Internet of Things (IoT) — that connects everything and everyone.”

  36. given the extent of our domestic abuse problem..(largely/often fueled by alcohol..)

    ..this should be of some interest..surely..?


  37. weka 47

    I have to use up my mobile broadband today, I think there is over a gig left as I was away a lot of the month. Any suggestions on video downloads? Political, musical, comedic or just fun. I got the Hager talk already.

  38. Enough is Enough 48

    oh dear

    do not look at the herald

    • mickysavage 48.1

      I am intrigued that they should rush the result out at 2 pm before the debate. This is the first time I can ever recall them doing this.

      • Enough is Enough 48.1.1

        Yep, they have an agenda Greg.

        They want this to dominate debate between now and 7pm. They want this to be the issue in the debate.

        • weka

          I haven’t had time to look properly, but assuming like all the other polls, the undecideds aren’t counted, I have to wonder if this is material for a complaint to the Press Council. It’s very misleading, and grossly deceitful that they don’t point out the implications of the undecided votes.

      • phillip ure 48.1.2

        @ m.s..mind you..better than ambushing cunnliffe by holding it back until 6 pm…

      • tinfoilhat 48.1.3

        “I am intrigued that they should rush the result out at 2 pm before the debate.”

        Because the media thinks the election is all about them, it’s the same with release of polls through the media outlets every second day….. the whole thing is ludicrous to the extreme.

        Unfortunately we’ve played into their game by taking about it !

    • McFlock 48.2

      I half expected them to be calling key the winner of the first debate already 🙂

      So, to recap, national is on 50.7% with three weeks to go. The same poll said with 3 or 4 weeks before the election that national was on 53/54%.

      So at the moment national are looking possibly at 43/44%, although the main variation will come after the debates. And depending what kdc’s announcement is as well – I suspect he’s overhyped it, though.

      Worst case is that Assange makes a big self-important speech that fails to meet expectations, and kdc follows it with a minor fizzle that looks like nothing compared to the corruption hager’s already revealed. And while everyone is still going “what was all that about?”, half of them tick for the corrupt bastards again.

      Best case is that kdc reveals genuinely slam-dunk evidence that key did something illegal and the cops have to drag the pm in for questioning.

      After all, they raided newspaper offices last time, so they don’t let political timetables affect their investigations – right? /sarc

  39. Colonial Viper 49

    At the end of the day, it’s clear you just don’t like queer people. Why not be honest about it?

    Stephanie Rodgers wrote this about me in her post “Supporting all the colours of the rainbow.” I replied to her outrageous remark (it was brief lol), but although she seems to have cleared other comments out of moderation, she won’t clear my reply. So here I am forced on to OM saying: that’s just a transparently shit argument style, Stephanie, and now I’m really looking forward to what other crap you’re going to put in my mouth/make up next about me. 😈

    • weka 49.1

      to be honest, it looks like the conversation has turned personal on both sides. Is this really what we want to be doing at this time?

      • Colonial Viper 49.1.1

        well, that’s a very good point as well…

        • weka


          It seems fair to bring your comment to OM, given the power imbalance in arguing with an author on their own post, but I hope over the coing month we can try and state our differences but not get too bogged down in them.

          • Colonial Viper

            It seems fair to bring your comment to OM, given the power imbalance in arguing with an author on their own post

            damn, I appreciate you explicitly mentioning the subtle and not so subtle power imbalances stemming from author privilege, weka; so many people still refuse to acknowledge that it even exists 😉

            • weka


            • Tim Holmes

              Funnily enough, being a non commenting RWNJ on this site, I am all about this CV. Having a moan about the M/F/? on your passport when you try and enter the UAE or Egypt is onna be the least of yours problems

  40. Te Reo Putake 50

    Apologies for all the near duplicate posts above, people. Had some issues with disappearing comments, which now seems to be sorted.

  41. Belladonna 51

    Most of us will be watching the leaders debate tonight but if anyone is interested Radio Live have a debate on a Thursday night 7pm – 9pm with the appropriate people Tonight’s debate is welfare/superan. It will be available on demand I expect.

  42. Penny Bright 52

    Ok – how about focusing on the BIG issues and the HARD questions?

    I did get speaking rights at today’s Auckland Council Governing Body meeting in the Town Hall today.

    Who knew that Auckland Council was currently exposed to nearly $5.8 BILLION in derivatives?

    A follow-up OIA request to Treasury ….

    _________________________________________________________________________28 August 2014

    URGENT/’Open Letter’ / OIA request to NZ Treasury
    re: Legislative changes since 2008 that have allowed NZ at local and central government to become more exposed to the derivatives market.

    Please be advised that under the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987, I have recently received a reply from Auckland Council, dated 14 August 2014,
    ( Auckland Council Official Information Request No. 9000130643)

    • which reveals the following information:

    My LGOIMA request question:

    ” 6) Please provide the information which confirms exactly how much Auckland Council has been exposed to the derivatives market since 1 November 2010.”

    Auckland Council reply:

    “Interest rate swaps are used to manage interest rate exposures on Council debt.

    The total notional value of interest rate risk management instruments (swaps) including forward start swaps is $5.8 billion and the average term to is 6.4 years.

    Total “live” swaps at 30 June 2014 are $3.2 billion.

    The forward start swaps of $2.6 billion will lock in the interest rate on future borrowings. ”

    Please provide the following information:

    1) All legislative changes enacted since the John Key led National Government took office in 2008, which have facilitated, enabled, encouraged or generally made it easier, for New Zealand at local and central government level (including Crown Entities, and State-Owned Enterprises) to become exposed to the derivatives market, in any/all way, shape or form.

    2) The names of the banks, financial institutions and the like, which have facilitated, enabled and/or provided derivatives market services, in any form, since the John Key led National Government took office in 2008.

    3) As of today, 28 August 2014, the total current amount of exposure to the derivatives market held by the NZ Government, at central government level (including, but not limited to, Crown Entities, and State-Owned Enterprises).

    4) As of 18 November 2008 (the day before the John Key led National Government took office), the total current amount of exposure to the derivatives market held by the NZ Government, at central government level (including, but not limited to, Crown Entities, and State-Owned Enterprises).

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    Attendee: 2014 G20 Anti-Corruption Conference

    • adam 52.1

      Are they into derivatives so they can loss the money? Then they say, oh poor us, we broke – we need to sell some stuff off.

      Public money needs to be treated with a bit more respect.

    • nadis 52.2

      Penny – good on you for raising this in the wider context of Auckland City Council general financial mismanagement.

      But don’t be sucked in by the nominal amounts. If the council is doing their job properly (I know, a big if) the actual amount “at risk” on these trades should only be around 3 or 4% of the nominal amount. A swap is a nominal contract, ie if you enter into a 100 million swap, 100million dollars doesnt change hands. An agreement is made to swap interest payments. So lets say we agree to swap a 6% fixed payment for 3 month floating payment for 5 years, the exposure is just the present value of the difference of those payments. So on the start date the net exposure on that swap would be zero, not 100 million.

      The questions you should be asking council are the following:

      -What is the current mark to market value of all derivative transactions the council has entered into?
      – What is the net credit exposure to each swap counterparty (please identify counterparties by name), broken out by counterparty credit rating?
      – Please describe what proportion of outstanding derivative exposure is hedging existing interest rate exposures?
      – Are all derivative contracts entered into under an ISDA agreement?
      – Are exposures to counterparties collateralised, and if so to what degree?
      – What gift and entertainment policies cover the staff responsible for negotiationg and entering into derivitive transactions?
      – Please publish (without identifying staff names) the current gift and entertainment register?

      Answers to those questions will tell you everything you need to know.

  43. weka 53

    Guyon Espiner ‏@GuyonEspiner

    Peters: will talk first to the largest party, will not work with IMP or Maori Party and refuses to say whether he will work with the Greens.

    So, once again, voting for NZF is NOT a left wing vote, nor is it a vote for changing this govt.

    • tinfoilhat 53.1

      “So, once again, voting for NZF is NOT a left wing vote, nor is it a vote for changing this govt.”

      I think it’s been fairly obvious for quite a while that Winston will go with National if push comes to shove,

      • weka 53.1.1

        There’s been a few ts regulars who think that Winston will def go with Labour. I think there are general voters who believe this too.

        • phillip ure

          polling after the last time peters went with the tories..

          ..showed that 70% of those who voted for him then..

          ..did so with the expectation that their vote was going to support a labour-led govt..

          ..fool me twice..more fool me…eh..?

  44. BLiP 54

    Wonderful news – Cameron Slater has confirmed that the material in “Dirty Politics” is genuine.


    • Tracey 54.1

      Was my thought too.

      So those saying Hagers book is fantasy, whaledumps info backs the book = evidence.

  45. BLiP 55

    Sssup with my comments disappearing . . . that’s four now.

    • weka 55.1

      they’re probably going into the spam filter. It’s been happening for the past day to a few people.

  46. Clemgeopin 56

    Stacey Kirk: [STUFF]

    NZ Herald have published their latest Digipoll (interestingly, breaking it online before their papers). A reason for that could be that the results of the debate might take a more prominent seat then.

    The party results are interesting, showing NZ First and Conservatives on the move upwards (Similar to last night’s 3 News poll, though not as extreme). Labour are still dropping though.

    National 50.7 (up 0.7)

    Labour 24.1 (down 1.1)

    Greens 11.4 (down 2.3)

    NZ First 5 (up 0.7)

    Maori Party 1 (up 0.3)

    Internet Mana 3.4 (up 1.3)

    Conservatives 3.3 (up 0.7)

    Act 0.3 (down 0.3)

    United Future 0.2 (down 0.2)

  47. outofbed 57

    National 45.0% (-2.5%) Digi National 50.7 (up 0.7)
    Labour 26.3% (-2.6%) Labour 24.1 (down 1.1)
    Green 13.5% (+0.5%) Greens 11.4 (down 2.3)
    ACT 0.3% (nc) Act 0.3 (down 0.3)
    Maori 0.7% (-0.1%) Maori Party 1 (up 0.3)
    United Future 0.4% (+0.2%) United Future 0.2 (down 0.2)
    Mana/Internet 2.1% (+0.1%) Internet Mana 3.4 (up 1.3)
    NZ First 6.3% (+1.7%) NZ First 5 (up 0.7)
    Conservative 4.6% (+2.1%) Conservatives 3.3 (up 0.7

    Right N A UF Con 50.3 54.5

    Left Lab Green Mana 41.9 38.9

    I find it hard to believe National has gone up in the polls and the Greens gave gone down

    That is is not what I am hearing door knocking but hey I do live in Wellington

    • Enough is Enough 57.1

      As Marty G and Steve Pierson used to always say it is the trends that count. The trends are fucking terrible and I am stressed about it.

    • weka 57.2


      Can you please post a link we so can see it in context?

  48. yeshe 59

    Yeah, right. But he has to say it though !!!

    ” He (Key) denied Ms Collins had information she could use against him which might have helped her keep her job.
    “No one has anything on me,” he said.”

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/john-key-stands-by-embattled-judith-collins-2014082816#ixzz3BempdrXw

  49. Colonial Viper 60

    Well, surely you must have read his many other comments down the years, none of which were anti-gay. CV is not a homophobe. And re-reading his comments above, I still think you’ve leapt to an unwarranted conclusion

    Thanks for stating this, TRP.

    • Tracey 60.1

      Have seen nothing to suggest CV is homophobic in his posting.

      Not always a girl’s best friend 😉 but not a homophobe

    • yeshe 60.2

      Not a whiff of homophobia ever that I have seen. I read the post. Agree with Tracey 100% and TRP.

    • Rich 60.3

      I can’t see it either. All I see is a lot of bold text in the comments section.

      • weka 60.3.1

        There is the argument to be made (has been made) that marginalising so called identity politics is a form of homophobia etc.

        • Rich

          Hi Weka, I’m afraid that I don’t see how having a T in your passport instead of an M when you look F (or the other way around) is going to make it any easier to travel. So although I respect Stephanie’s addressing of this issue, on a practical basis I don’t see how it would improve her friend’s ability to travel. I won’t comment on the deleted comments because I didn’t see them.

          • weka

            It doesn’t matter if you see or don’t see how it changes things for the better for those people. It’s about what matters to them, yeah?

            • Rich

              Yes of course it is.

              Mine was probably more of a question originally than a statement, I have had problems getting my posts through the filter tonight for some reason.

    • Te Reo Putake 60.4

      No worries, comrade! We’re not always going to agree, but you have my ongoing respect. As does Stephanie, for that matter, even if I think this response was OTT.

      • Colonial Viper 60.4.1

        And you have my respect, and especially for all the work you put into helping ordinary NZers get ahead 🙂

        Yes we butt heads from time to time, but we are also very honest about our differences when they do arise which is fine by me.

  50. Georgebolwing 61

    For me, the most interesting figure in the latest Herald poll is that 67.8% of the polled population state John Key is their preferred PM.

    If you assume that all Act, Conservative, MP and UF votes want John Key to be PM, my rough calculation is that about 35% of Labour, Green, IM and NZF voters are saying that despite their intended party vote, they would prefer John Key to be prime Minister.

  51. vto 62

    The type of policies this government (and previous ones) have brought to life and fostered have led to the likes of Pike River which killed 29 men dead.

    The types of policies are flawed in the extreme.

    And now this afternoon another person at work has been killed. It is the attitude and the approach, the self-regulate mantra, the idea that what is good for the singular is good for the plural foolishness, this madness has to stop …..


    is John Key up to it?

  52. i seem to recall predicting here last week that labour wd slump more in the polls..

    ..it happens every time after parker comes out and talks about raising the pension-age..

    ..it happens every time..

    ..i reckon..that also for a raft of other reasons..but for many..it’s a case of..

    ..we as a country may need to do some re-jigging of priorities..

    ..but somehow raising the pension age doesn’t seem to be anywhere near problem number one…

    ..right now..

    ..not to mention that policy driving away maori/p.i-voters..

    ..who ‘cos of earlier mortality..

    ..barely get to pension age now…

    ..labours’ stupidest policy…

    ..but they can’t be told..eh..?

  53. weka 64


    List number – Name – Electorate – Component party

    1. Hone HARAWIRA (Internet MANA leader) – Te Tai Tokerau – MANA (leader)
    2. Laila HARRÉ – Helensville – Internet Party (leader)
    3. Annette SYKES – Waiariki – MANA
    4. John MINTO – Mt Roskill – MANA
    5. Chris YONG – Te Atatu – Internet Party
    6. Miriam PIERARD – Auckland Central – Internet Party


  54. lprent 65

    Getting puzzled about the spam catcher problem. I have tried turning off (and hurriedly back on) three anti-spam protection systems so far with no effect. Comment with links and some others keep going to the spam directory.

    It is almost like something new doesn’t like odd-ball punctuation like “://” and “. . .”*

    • Ummmm a anti-phil device ? Nah…
  55. Weepus beard 66

    A Lyttelton Port worker has fallen to his death in a workplace accident today, police have confirmed.

    Emergency services rushed to Gladstone Quay about 3.20pm when a scissor lift the 40-year-old was in toppled over, a police spokesman said.

    Rail and Maritime Transport Union South Island organiser John Kerr said he was aware of a death.

    “What I can say is everybody on that waterfront is going to be shocked and angered about this . . . any death at work is one too many and this is the third in 12 months on that waterfront, this is just wrong,” he said.

    Kerr believed the dead man was not an RMTU member, but a Maritime Union member.

    “We will become involved, because once the investigation takes place we have got to look at why this happened.”

    Worksafe New Zealand confirmed they are investigating an incident at the Lyttelton Port, but would not comment further.

    Police launched an investigation into the cause of the incident, and were speaking to the family of the man with the help of Victim Support.

    Fire crews from Christchurch and Lyttelton were at the scene with police.

    Police will not be making further comment tonight.

    Lyttelton Maritime Union New Zealand secretary Les Wells did not want to comment tonight.


    In June a Press investigation revealed recent deaths and injuries at Lyttelton Port pointed to a lack of training and safety policies. Inexperienced workers worked back-to-back shifts and others were retiring early because of perceived risks.

    In August last year port worker Harley Ritchie’s leg was snapped in half when a steel beam fell on him.

    In November transport company owner William ”Bill” Frost died after being pinned between a logging truck trailer and a forklift.

    The following month Harley Ritchie’s uncle, Warren, was killed when he was struck by a crane grab while unloading urea in the hold of a Singaporean ship docked at Lyttelton.

    His mother Helen Dungey said today’s news brought December 21 flooding back.

    ‘‘It’s so awful. It’s a horrible thing. I really feel for the family,’’ Dungey said.

    Dungey, who was also Frost’s friend, said there were simply “too many deaths”.

    The port was a ‘‘very, very dangerous’’ place to work, she said.

    ‘‘I don’t want any of my lot down there again. I don’t think they are training them enough and that’s all there is to it.”

    In January, a Lyttelton Port Company worker was left with head and spinal injuries after a container fell on top of the forklift he was driving.

    In the last five years 10 people have been killed while working in ports, according to WorkSafe New Zealand figures.

    Almost half of these were in 2013 and this year, but the statistics do not include those who died working on ships docked at a port.

    – Stuff

    The National government’s work place policy up close. Self regulation works, they said. Cut the red tape, they said. Boost productivity, they said.

  56. Example of rightwing propagandising on YahooNZ website:

    Photo : Grafitti on National Party billboard
    Headline : “Labour candidate owns up’

    A cursory read of the headline and picture suggests a Labour candidate has owned up to defacing National Party billboards.

    The story is actually about Jacinda Ardern owning up to drawing on her OWN billboard after someone had cut the eyes out of the photo on it.

    They have now changed it but how many people saw it before it was changed?

  57. weka 68

    KDC posts the promo for Sept 15th,

  58. xtasy 69


    Thievery Corporation –

    NOT mainstream stuff, but “interesting”.

  59. xtasy 70

    I seem to be constantly persecuted here now, and it is not new, I just trued to post a concerned comment re sexism and child abuse, but it was off loaded and shat on. Maybe it is just another “technical” problem. But my concern is about child sex and sexism, and a band called Kaoma from Brasil did not serve interests of fairness long ago, so I intended to load a link, which now seems a waste of time.

    It does not load after al l now, so they do NOT want to share it, so that tells you how NZ is run, right?!

    I can tell you many similar stories, NZ is corrupt and rotten, run by an elite crowd, that control all, and it is time to get rid of them. So vote accordingly, research the parties to do so, I am NOT biased.

  60. xtasy 71

    So what does this mean?

  61. xtasy 72

    Worth also in moderation, we are all supposed to be one together:

  62. xtasy 73

    Worth also in moderation, we are all supposed to be one together:

  63. xtasy 74

    Lprent your are an ARSEHOLE, and I regret having thought I get a fair deal to come back to TS. It is BS you work on same as your mate from TDB. You are Bullshit People, and while I am left of centre, I will NOT support any of you fucking arseholes and liars as you are. So get fucked man, you are real shit, and I saw and heard enough about you at the meeting in Balmoral, no damned wonder the left in this crap country is losing, because of self interested people, who have their agendas, but do not give a shit for the rest of society. YOU can dig your damned TS website, so can Bomber, the other idiot I saw the other night, you Kiwi supposed “leftist” have ALL lost it, will lose the election to Key and ALL look for the next best job to serve yourselves, and fuck the people you claim you ever stood for. Feel ashamed.

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