Open mike 29/12/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 29th, 2023 - 39 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

39 comments on “Open mike 29/12/2023 ”

  1. Molly 1

    Following up on a couple of recent comments, a lucid interview with Helen Joyce has just been posted on YouTube regarding her journey from The Economist to author of

    TRANS: When Ideology Meets Reality

    https://www.amazon.com.au/TRANS-When-Ideology-Meets-Reality/dp/0861540492

    https://youtu.be/scYnh_e4cwE?si=jyjOSlbPL8qUJ7GE

    • weka 1.1

      so so good. She's always on form and this was no exception. He was interesting too, haven't seen his podcast before.

      I could write 20 posts off that 1 hour. Every new theme they talk about is spot on. I'd start with the hands and strength differential. Or the stats one, and how many things get broken once the initial false premise is accepted.

      Had to laugh when Gold talked about wanting to be a woman for a few days, and it turns out he meant having tits and a vagina and it's about being attracted to oneself (good on him for being honest). Then Joyce pointing out that women don't think about themselves like they (because are a woman), and what's with thinking woman = tits and a vagina anyway.

      • Molly 1.1.1

        It does relate to a couple of posts talking about the dynamics involved in political conversations at the moment, not just on issues of gender ideology.

        She interviews well, and noticeably listens and considers before answering.

        • weka 1.1.1.1

          yes, I particularly appreciated the differentiation between liberal values and progressive politics. Her point that liberal values can be shared by conservatives and progressives is something often missed. Her framing of conservative as good when it's about conserving good things, juxtaposed with the regressive/progressive dynamic.

    • adam 1.2

      Thanks Molly, that was awesome.

    • gsays 1.3

      Thanks Molly.

      Clear communication from Helen Joyce of the issues while mowing the lawns yesty.

      In regards the Economic Institute of London debate, the way Helen described Freda's demeanour and appearance in a recent meeting was insightful. Not until she pointed out the aggressive and overtly sexual behaviour was male in it's nature did it click with me.

      The narrative seems to be shifting, John Boyne, a couple of months back apologised to Graham Linehan.

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/05/author-john-boyne-apologises-to-graham-linehan-trans-debate/#:~:text=Author%20John%20Boyne%20has%20apologised,right%2C%20I%20was%20wrong.%E2%80%9D

  2. Robert Guyton 3

    Does "Māori" need to be defined?

    Does, "New Zealand's Constitution"?

    Does "man"

    Does "woman"?

    • weka 3.1

      no

      yes

      no

      no*

      (*except it does for the people that are currently confused about biological reality)

  3. Pat 4

    Dame Anne Salmond with a new year's wish (?)

    "In a complex world, though, such simplicities lack conviction for all but the most ideologically minded. Most New Zealanders find themselves in a sceptical middle ground, mistrusting the fanatics and looking for leadership that avoids the extremes."

    An observation that reflects those with whom I interact

    It may however be based on an erroneous assumption (and it may not, difficult to know)

    "MMP was supposed to deliver this kind of outcome, a balance of powers that thwarts political excesses."

    I recall my own motivation (s) for supporting MMP and they were to redress the (to me) obvious unfairness of a Gov elected with less votes than the opposition and the marginal representation of a party (Social Credit, 2 seats) that attracted over 20% of the vote….political extremism never entered the equation, indeed I recall those 2 facts being widely promoted as the raison d'etre for the reform.

    "According to the origin stories, these first settlers were driven from their homelands or went exploring to see what was across the horizon. Often their home societies were relatively hierarchical, and some left to make new lives for themselves and their families.

    Much the same is true of the settlers who arrived from Europe some 600 years later. They also came from homelands with plants, animals, climates and landscapes very different from those in New Zealand, and had to adapt in ways based on ancestral precedents, but in response to new challenges and conditions."

    While acknowledging some commonality of adaptation, Dame Anne misses a key difference….Maori retained their hierarchical culture whereas the pakeha were in the main seeking to escape such hierarchies, hence our egalitarian philosophy (whether real in practice or not)….and further neglects the fact that over a quarter of our population are recent arrivals whose motivation could largely be described as 'economic refugees'.

    "As a New Year’s resolution for a new Prime Minister, it would be great to see evidence of good outcomes the key driver for policy in New Zealand. Most Kiwis want a peaceful, creative and prosperous country; flourishing waterways and landscapes, and infrastructure and institutions that work well, not radical disparities of wealth and power, divisive posturing and populist rhetoric."

    It is difficult to disagree with such sentiment, but I fear that in a world of overshoot we are destined to behave as the rest of the world's societies are indicating….after all, folk are folk.

    https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/30/anne-salmond-in-praise-of-the-middle-ground/

  4. Robert Guyton 5

    "folk are folk"

    Is it in our nature, to be this way, or in our culture?

    • Belladonna 5.1

      There's nowt so queer as folk….

    • Pat 5.2

      Considering it spans culture it must be inherent

      • Robert Guyton 5.2.1

        Every culture faces the challenge, but different cultures respond differently – have we (our culture) responded in a life-promoting, or a life-denying way, do you think?

        • Pat 5.2.1.1

          That will depend upon how you determine 'our culture'….the problem is global and the responses myriad, both between and within cultures.

          You are living proof Robert….you exist within a culture that operates at odds with your own philosophy, as do others within their own.

          The question I ask you is do you think you should be required to conform with the (currently) dominant culture on pain of exclusion/penalty…or in extreme cases banishment or death?

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1.1

            Yes.

            • Pat 5.2.1.1.1.1

              So do some authoritarians/ fascists….let us hope they (and you) never end up running things.

              Democracy appears the best method (though not infallible) for ensuring that.

              • Robert Guyton

                I will never, so, all good!

                But only "some"?

                What about the others?

                Actually, I meant, "no".

              • Incognito

                The word democracy is a broad term/concept. What do you mean by it when you use it?

                In addition, do you think we’ve identified and properly considered all the possible and alternative variants of democracy as we know it (as in: tried and experienced)?

                • Pat

                  Democracy (to my mind) is the ability to (s)elect our representatives on a one person, one vote basis….the only exclusion which I believe permissible is on the basis of age, though personally i'd advocate no age restriction.

                  As to possible alternatives , obviously all possible alternatives have neither been identified or tested, however those that have been are inferior (in totality) imo.

                  That is a challenge/opportunity for us to create…..but should one be so created it would need to be accepted by democratic means and not imposed.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1.2

          May be a growth-related evolutionary glitch – wishing you and yours a happy 2024.

          Half of ‘critical’ carbon-cutting policies are off track [12 Dec 2023]
          Our response, and this applies to the global response, and the response being debated at Cop28, is a response set within the confines of not interrupting economic growth.

          There is no official recognition of the fact that it’s our persistent economic growth that’s destroying our biosphere, our life support system.

          Consider just two adaptive behaviors that Homo sapiens shares with all other species. Humans have an innate propensity to consume available resources – often to depletion – and a parallel drive to invade and colonize all accessible habitats.
          https://greattransition.org/gti-forum/population-rees

  5. Robert Guyton 6

    "though personally i'd advocate no age restriction."

    Liking this from Pat!

    There's a natural "pinch point" where young people won't vote. However, their parents might like to dummy-vote on their behalf 🙂

    • Pat 6.1

      Yes they may, just as occurs now in certain circumstances….however once a child is capable of filing their own ballot they have the same freedom of secret ballot as everyone else.

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

        A child may be capable, at age 2, of ticking a box, but "filing their own ballot", Pat?

        Are you serious??

        • Pat 6.1.1.1

          Very serious….are children not also citizens?…and ones likely to be more impacted by the future?

          Not only does it ingrain a sense of belonging and civics it would also likely increase voter participation and political engagement long term…and the argument that they are 'too young to understand' can be applied at any age.

          • Robert Guyton 6.1.1.1.1

            Sure, but who will cast their vote, is my question…

            I voted for 16 year olds to vote in local body elections. Others didn't.

            • Incognito 6.1.1.1.1.1

              If they’re old enough to do Jury Service, sit on Citizens’ Assemblies, and procreate and independently raise their offspring, for example, then I’d say they’re old enough to vote.

            • Pat 6.1.1.1.1.2

              Id suggest that parental voting on behalf would largely reflect the proportion of vote uin any case…but once a child can physically mark and place their ballot in the box there is no need for parental/caregiver assistance….remembering this is the ability to vote, not the requirement…there would be no element of compulsion, but Id suggest most children would take the opportunity.

              It could be perhaps the case that you could vote at the next election but one from your birth, that would essentially make the youngest eligible voter around 4 years old with current term.

          • weka 6.1.1.1.2

            and the argument that they are 'too young to understand' can be applied at any age.

            Only if you don't understand the basics of human growth and development. I suspect you do, because nearly everyone knows the difference between a new born and a teenager in terms of the ability to think and parse meaning.

            • Pat 6.1.1.1.2.1

              Do we preclude the mentally impaired, drug affected, those with dementia?

              Part of human growth and development is understanding and participating in the world we live in

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • New Zealand congratulates new Solomon Islands government
    A high-level New Zealand political delegation in Honiara today congratulated the new Government of Solomon Islands, led by Jeremiah Manele, on taking office.    “We are privileged to meet the new Prime Minister and members of his Cabinet during his government’s first ten days in office,” Deputy Prime Minister and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • New Zealand supports UN Palestine resolution
    New Zealand voted in favour of a resolution broadening Palestine’s participation at the United Nations General Assembly overnight, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.    “The resolution enhances the rights of Palestine to participate in the work of the UN General Assembly while stopping short of admitting Palestine as a full ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium
    Introduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • $571 million for Defence pay and projects
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Climate change – mitigating the risks and costs
    New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Getting new job seekers on the pathway to work
    Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Accelerating Social Investment
    A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says.  “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Getting Back on Track
    Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with  your Board and team, for hosting me.   I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ – European Union ties more critical than ever
    Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith,   Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States,   Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us.   Ladies and gentlemen -    In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations.   ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Therapeutic Products Act to be repealed
    The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Decisions on Wellington City Council’s District Plan
    The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Rape Awareness Week: Government committed to action on sexual violence
    Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston.  “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Smarter lunch programme feeds more, costs less
    Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Report provides insights into marine recovery
    New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • NZ to send political delegation to the Pacific
    Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region.   The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu.    “New Zealand has deep and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Low gas production threatens energy security
    There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co.  Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Defence industry talent, commitment recognised
    Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry
    Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to the Sixth Annual New Zealand Government Data Summit
    It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government.  I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Ceasefire agreement needed now: Peters
    New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Daily school attendance data now available
    A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour.  The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Ambassador to United States appointed
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America.    “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says.    “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New permit proposed for recreational gold mining
    The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ and the UAE launch FTA negotiations
    Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand Sign Language Week an opportunity for anyone to sign
    New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Next stop NASA for New Zealand students
    Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • $1.9 billion investment to keep NZ safe from crime
    New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • OECD reinforces need to control spending
    The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli.   ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Agreement delivers Local Water Done Well for Auckland
    The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Gaza and the Pacific on the agenda with Germany
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today.    "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Decision allows for housing growth in Western Bay of Plenty
    The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to New Zealand China Council
    Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today.    Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Modern insurance law will protect Kiwi households
    The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government recommits to equal pay
    The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says.  “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Transforming how our children learn to read
    Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.  “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ not backing down in Canada dairy dispute
    Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Stronger oversight for our most vulnerable children
    The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Streamlining Building Consent Changes
    The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says.      “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)
    New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...
    Good evening –   Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-05-12T09:23:07+00:00