Open mike 30/09/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 30th, 2023 - 33 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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33 comments on “Open mike 30/09/2023 ”

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  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    30 September 2023 at 9:35 am

    NAct Smoke n Mirrors, with a ghoulish element to the mix…

    The National Party's fiscal plan is ghoulish smoke and mirrors that will put more children into poverty, if you listen to Labour and the Green Party.

    ACT ..(IMO unsurprisingly)

    ACT is critical – although for different reasons – and it says the plan does not go far enough.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/499062/ghoulish-smoke-and-mirrors-reaction-to-national-s-fiscal-plan

    Smoke, Mirrors…Ghouls? Almost sounds magical. As in very Dark.

    And they have certainly spelled it out. Certainly none on the lower end of NZ society should be in any doubt of what will be..if NAct gain power.

    They would bring a very Dark time.

    • alwyn 1.1
      30 September 2023 at 10:33 am

      "Certainly none on the lower end of NZ society"

      They don't appear to be in any doubt at all. The Gang supporting protesters at Parliament seemed to think that the current Government were much better for them than a National led Government would be,

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-quick-to-judge-national-police-spokesman-mark-mitchell-fronts-up-to-gang-whanau-at-parliament-over-draconian-policies/JULDXPOKMJGVXESVWR2WXPB2Z4/

      The residents of Coromandel township may be in favour of the National policies of course.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/rebels-gang-violence-in-coromandel-township-witness-speaks-out/LR27AEC5RJEMDBRWQM63I7ZHTI/

      • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1
        30 September 2023 at 11:21 am


        The Side Eye’s Two New Zealands: The Table

        Alwyn, the less wealthy end of society is a large 'gang'. Maybe they can be allocated "powerful jobs" building more gated communities, aka prisons on flood plains (I'm gonna wash that gang right outa my hair) and luxury villages – NAct's 'vision' for NZ?

        Personally I reckon the NAct gang are pretty sick puppies, and their larger donors completely in thrall to Mammon. Why should Kiwis take Willis and Luxon at their word, when they've clearly been caught out trying to scam the voters?

        Fiscal Holes in The National Party's Foreign Buyers Policy w/ Nick Goodall: September 25, 2023
        "Our best estimate was that they could probably get about $213 million per year, so pretty well short of that $740…"
        …
        Interviewer – Do we have any idea how the National party has come to such a large number, and what information do we have about their budgeting calculations?

        Foreign Buyers Tax: A Mismatch Between Expectations and Reality
        The Importance of Transparent Policymaking
        While the shortfall in the proposed tax revenue may not significantly impact the government deficits, it serves as a testament to the politicians’ approach to policy making and their transparency in responding to criticism. Even though the National party, being an opposition party, may not have the same resources as the Government to form its policy, critics argue that it should invest in thorough analysis using the donations it receives.

        Hmm – donations the Nats receive. Might relaxing the ban on foreigners buying Kiwi homes be a way of rewarding some big donors? Luxon and Willis know which side National's 'bread' is buttered on.

        Luxon unsure if he'll lower rents on homes he owns despite policy promise [10 Sept 2023]
        Christopher Luxon is unsure whether he will lower the rents on his own investment properties if National's housing policy is enacted despite saying the plans would put a "downward pressure on rents" if the party is elected.

        Nats want to reheat the property market – donors are fuming over the correction.

        Pulling tax from one part of teetering Jenga tower to place it in another [updated 20 Sept 2023]
        At its core, National’s tax plan is all about property.

        It should be no surprise that the real estate sector, who stand to gain from an influx of affluent foreign buyers, have been the most vocal in their enthusiasm for National’s tax plan.

        • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1.1
          30 September 2023 at 11:45 am

          DMK…you explain it so well. As one of those at the lower/other end of the table..I appreciate that.

      • Tricledrown 1.1.2
        30 September 2023 at 11:28 am

        National cut police numbers last time they were in power yet say they are tough on Crime.Labour have increased police numbers considerably by 1800 in 5 yrs .Labour are increasing police numbers by 300 in 3 yrs National 300 over 4 yrs.If population increases continue at the present rate that will mean a bigger decrease for National by 33 police per year. National claim it will increase the number of police per head of population which is a big fat lie.How does 75 go into 100,000 is actually a decrease by 6 times.National can't do basic Maths.The Wellsford Tuhoi highway National budget $2.3 billion actual latest estimates without allowance for ongoing land movement and more regular cyclone events.$4.5 billion plus.The best figures for the high priced foreign house buyer tax by independent economists given past sales about $50 million a year that is a very high estimate National claim it will bring in $250 million a year totally bonkers.Keep repeating the big figured lies is Nationals policy.National are still avoiding putting out the evidence of their claims because they are mostly false

        .John Key's influence is obvious spin a lie then don't answer the questions.

        • alwyn 1.1.2.1
          30 September 2023 at 3:10 pm

          "National cut police numbers last time they were in power"

          That is simply not true.

          The number of sworn Officers at 30/06 2008 was 8,453 and the total staff was 11,413. At 30 June 2017 the corresponding numbers were 8,838 and 12,022.

          The numbers therefor rose during the last National Government term and your claim is false.

          These numbers were taken from t6he Annual reports

          https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/annual-report-2017-2018.pdf

          https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/annual-report-2009.pdf

          • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.2.1.1
            30 September 2023 at 6:00 pm

            "National cut police numbers last time they were in power"
            That is simply not true.

            Fair enough alwyn, although NZ police constabulary numbers did decrease in four of the years (2011, 2013, 2016 and 2017) of the Key/English government.

            Last tally (on 30 June 2008) during the 5th Labour (Clark) govt: 8210
            Last tally (on 30 June 2017) during the 5th National (Key/English) govt: 8838

            A 7.6% increase over 9 years, cf. a 13% population increase.

            June 2022 tally, 4 years 8 months into the 6th Labour (Ardern) govt: 10342

            A 17% increase over 5 years, cf. a 6.3% population increase.

            And an average of 131 police recruits per year under Key/English, cf. 216 recruits per year under Ardern. It's enough to do one's head in, eh alwyn?

            Constabulary staff (there are a few minor discrepancies between some reports)
            2008 – 8210 (+ 243 recruits)
            2009 – 8643 (+ 131 recruits)
            2010 – 8708 (+ 81 recruits)
            2011 – 8638 (+ 218 recruits)
            2012 – 8854 (+ 86 recruits)
            2013 – 8703 (+ 79 recruits)
            2014 – 8818 (+ 243 recruits)
            2015 – 8923 (+ 125 recruits)
            2016 – 8899 (+ 105 recruits)
            2017 – 8838 (+ 117 recruits)
            2018 – 9017 (+ 265 recruits)
            2019 – 9482 (+ 324 recruits)
            2020 – 10092 (+ 125 recruits)
            2021 – 10119 (+ 100 recruits)
            2022 – 10342 (+ 265 recruits)

            https://www.police.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/annual-report-2021-2022.pdf

            • Muttonbird 1.1.2.1.1.1
              30 September 2023 at 7:10 pm

              Brutal. Please go easy on Alwyn, he's just a parrot.

            • alwyn 1.1.2.1.1.2
              30 September 2023 at 7:33 pm

              I did feel safer in the days of the Key and English as PM.

              I wouldn't consider going out to a restaurant in Courtenay Place on Friday or Saturday evenings these days.

              • Muttonbird …
                30 September 2023 at 8:18 pm

                Courtenay Place might feel more unsafe because of the 501's John Key happily imported.

                Also because of marginalised Covid refugees from Australia.

                Also because you are not a quick as you once were.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                30 September 2023 at 8:22 pm

                Haven't changed my behaviour yet – my vibe for Aotearoa NZ's safest years of the 21st century would have to be 2020/2021 – plenty of social cohesion.

                Hopefully there won't be any more instances of candidate intimidation in the 2023 election campaign period – not good for Kiwi democracy, imho.

                James Shaw compares Winston Peters’ language to Trump after candidate violence [30 Sept 2023]

                Shaw was worried for his candidates, having seen the online abuse they were subjected to.

                “It’s vile, it is really extreme and it is stronger now than it has been in previous election campaigns and like I said I don’t think it takes much for a particularly unhinged individual [to go] from whacking their keyboard to whacking a person.”

                But it was worse for female candidates and Māori, he said.

                “Not just a little bit, not just an increment, but orders in magnitude, from what I’ve seen my colleagues being exposed to. It is just unhinged.”

                There has been increased police participation in this campaign, Shaw said.

                “Parliamentary security have got new protocols that we are observing. We have changed, for example, the way we campaign, the way we do public meetings, or when we’re out and about, we’re observing new security protocols that we haven’t had in previous years.”

                • alwyn …
                  30 September 2023 at 8:43 pm

                  " I don’t think it takes much for a particularly unhinged individual [to go] from whacking their keyboard to whacking a person.”"

                  That certainly used to be true. I doubt if they have changed too much.

                  Remember the old days when Don Brash was showered with mud at Waitangi? And Steven Joyce had a dildo thrown at him? Or perhaps when John Key and Pita Sharples were attacked by relatives of Hone Harawira? One of them was later appointed as a Government advisor on Crown Maori relationships by the Ardern Government.

                  Still, that was all in a good cause I suppose.

                  • Muttonbird …
                    30 September 2023 at 8:59 pm

                    This behaviour from the right is not to be limited to politicians. Remember that time 51 muslims were gunned down in Christchurch, and live-streamed?

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    30 September 2023 at 11:07 pm

                    "I don’t think it takes much for a particularly unhinged individual [to go] from whacking their keyboard to whacking a person.”

                    Shaw was speaking from personal experience – makes you think?

                    I wouldn't consider going out to a restaurant in Courtenay Place on Friday or Saturday evenings these days. – alwyn

                    Three great forces rule the world: stupidity, fear and greed.
                    – Albert Einstein

                    Alwyn, sorry that you feel less safe – hope you’re not "getting swept up".

                    Being ‘tough on crime’ is easy, but it doesn't work
                    [21 Sept 2023]
                    As someone who works in the criminal justice sector, the recent policy proposals by major political parties make we wonder whether politicians are more concerned about appearing hard on crime than they are with reducing criminal offending.

                    This long-standing punitive approach to crime withstands the plethora of evidence and research that disproves its effectiveness for reducing re-offending. On the contrary, criminal justice experts and statisticians have consistently said harsher sentencing increases recidivism.

                    Why do we continue to entertain the ‘tough on crime’ narrative? My guess is that politicians are subject to the approval of the public who are getting swept up in common myths about crime and public safety. The public deserves better, to have accurate information to inform their vote in this election.

                    Perhaps if NAct gets up (with the assistance of NZF), then you'll regain your sense of security. Ideally, every Kiwi should feel safe and secure.

                    Study finds link between young ram-raiders and family harm events [29 September 2022]
                    "The evidence, the community, the sector experts at the forefront of family and sexual violence have been very clear for a long time that we need enduring solutions. That's why the simplistic short-term 'tough on crime', 'tough on youth' responses do not work," she said.

                    "When you have people involved with violence – let's say a politician who may have caused violent harm to someone at a boarding school. When they are wrapped with support, understanding, forgiveness, and given opportunities to carry on and lead a good life – that's how we can interrupt cycles of violence. That is how people can be supported to lead healthy lives."

          • Tricledrown 1.1.2.1.2
            30 September 2023 at 11:25 pm

            Alwyn the population increased by 500,000 in that time 20% Nationals increase of about 400 odd in 9 years is 5% so National reduced police numbers by 15%

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.3
        30 September 2023 at 11:42 am

        Of course you would go with that. What a life you must lead.

      • ianmac 1.1.4
        30 September 2023 at 12:12 pm

        alwyn. Those speaking to Mitchell were speaking for the whanau rather than gang members. There are flow on consequences for people who are near the very poor or the very old or the disadvantaged and it is too simplistic to punish anyone who happens to be near.

  2. Ffloyd 2
    30 September 2023 at 9:59 am

    Come on all ‘bottom feeders’ (luxon s description of us lower class folk)

    Get Out and Vote!

    NZ needs all the bottom feeders it can get.

    Lets take NZ Back from the 1 percent oxygen thieves.

    • Tricledrown 2.1
      30 September 2023 at 11:43 am

      The real bottom feeders are National rich mates who haven't done it tough while 70% of New Zealanders have struggled.While the big Corporates Nationals funders and beneficiaries have made scouriless exorbitant profits National are giving those few who profited out of everyone else's misery grotesque tax cuts.Then taking Money off the poor to pay for it.Playing the squeezed middle off against the poor blaming the poor for being poor.

    • Patricia Bremner 2.2
      30 September 2023 at 12:55 pm

      Onnya Ffloyd devil

      "Up the Bottom Feeders!!" Get out there and deny this lot their "pound of flesh" (Merchant of Venice where William Shakespeare describes a poor debtor having to pay with a pound (half a kilo) of flesh).

  3. Barfly 3
    30 September 2023 at 10:56 am

    There is a change in our education system I would really like to see.

    The introduction of a programme educating the youth as to the nature of democracy and the need for more people to participate in it.

    Teaching people why New Zealand changed to MMP (if memory serves we had two National Party Governments after elections where the Labour Party had more votes)

    Teaching people what FPP means in the UK

    Teaching people why the USA is 'pseudo democracy' not a democracy.

    Teaching people the what and why of voter suppression.

    Et cetera et cetera……..

    It is an enormously important subject and it behooves the country to assist the younger people of the nation to understand and participate in it. Oh and IMO the RW political parties in NZ would completely lose their shit over it. Seems like a "win win".

  4. Ad 4
    30 September 2023 at 11:12 am

    Would be great to see Luxon denounce the attacks on Hana Maipi-Clark or Angela Roberts.

    Or the Police Commissioner do the same since the big march on Parliament yesterday.

    Chippie is calling it, but so should all parties.

    Dark moment for us.

    • Anne 4.1
      30 September 2023 at 1:42 pm

      My comment @ 5 was meant to be a reply to your comment @ 4.

    • AB 4.2
      30 September 2023 at 2:09 pm

      Luxon daren't condemn those specific attacks in case he bleeds party votes to ACT or NZF.

      The most he could do is condemn "all attacks" – which is a way of generalising the condemnation into harmlessness. Plus it vaguely suggests that there might be attacks from the left. And then get the Nats' espionage unit to dredge up a case of a Nat politician being verbally abused or revisit the dildo being thrown at Steven (never saw a tertiary education system I couldn't monetise) Joyce.

  5. Anne 5
    30 September 2023 at 12:28 pm

    Not directly associated with racism and misogyny but you might be interested to know:

    Remember the claim against Clarke Gayford that “he was being investigated by the police for serious drug offences?” The media quickly latched on to it. The police almost as quickly issued an unprecedented press statement denying any such investigation existed or ever had existed. Normal policy is to publicly comment only on reported crimes and complaints – neither which occurred in this case.

    No wonder they wanted to shut the story down fast. It was a group of officers within in their own ranks responsible for the fake story in the first place. Don't know who they were, but wonder if there was any attempt to track them down and censure them at the least.

    Edit: I can’t verify by way of a link. All I can say, it came from a current police officer.

  6. Patricia Bremner 6
    30 September 2023 at 12:37 pm

    Misogyny and racism come from the same base. Trojan horses are everywhere, along with wolves in sheep disguises. Folk stories and fables warned of them.

  7. Patricia Bremner 7
    30 September 2023 at 12:49 pm

    Further to have Luxon fail to speak against the violence alarms me. That is not the Leadership NZ needs. Playing Nelson’s blind eye won’t wash.

  8. Anne 8
    30 September 2023 at 7:46 pm

    NZ Herald item headlined:

    "David Seymour attacks Te Pati Maori for politicising attack on candidate."

    I wanted to link to that Herald item as an example why that creep should never be allowed near the treasury benches. In the minute or so between seeing the item and attempting to link, it had already been withdrawn – 404. I wonder why?

    Having been through the experience of home invasions and associated obscene messaging including phone calls, I know the frightening effect this kind of behaviour can have on the target. To have an ignorant, misogynistic upstart like Seymour project what he is doing himself onto others makes me feel sick to the stomach.