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Open Mike 30/03/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 30th, 2017 - 25 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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25 comments on “Open Mike 30/03/2017 ”

  1. Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster 1

    The ultimate responsibility for the fiasco in Tirgiran lies with John Key!

    In a footnote at the end of Hager and Stephenson’s book ‘Hit and Run’:

    “In the case of the Tirgiran raid, it is likely Key could legitimately blame the SAS and Defence Force for not telling him everything. But he knew enough. When news stories appeared, one after another, with evidence that his decision had led to a disaster, the whole concept of accountability is that it was his duty to investigate and take action.”

    Further on: “He [Key] made the decision as prime minister to let the SAS go ahead with an attack in civilian villages. He appears not to have followed up properly when news of the tragedy emerged. He has shown a lack of interest and remorse.”

    Well, that’s what you can expect when you make a one-dimensional money-trader the leader of a democracy.

    • Adrian Thornton 1.1

      “Well, that’s what you can expect when you make a one-dimensional money-trader the leader of a democracy.”

      I agree with you here, however the bigger question is how has Labour become so discredited, so unloved by most NZ workers and the poor that it was completely and utterly powerless to combat a gambling addict like Key on any level? and still is….

      • Johan 1.1.1

        To Adrian Thornton:
        I don’t think that Labour has become so discredited, so unloved by most NZ workers and the poor. Typically, we in New Zealand vote political parties out!
        We are very kind people, we let a political party have-a-go and if they fuck-up, we vote them out.

        • Adrian Thornton

          Well if workers and the poor love Labour so much,as you assert, then why doesn’t that demographic vote vote for Labour in any kind of substantial numbers anymore?

          We are very kind people…what the hell does that mean, all counties in the world have kind people and people who are not kind, we are no better or worse than any other, so I fail to see how that statement has any relevance to this conversation.

          • Johan

            To Adrian Thornton:
            There are still many people who like Labour ( please let’s not use the words loved and unloved). The problem is that the leaders don’t always represent their party. eg. Douglas and Prebble. There is nothing wrong with Labour as a party, the problem lies with their representatives and how they project Labour Party philosophy.

        • One Two

          Do you understand the underlying issues if ‘voting out’ is ‘typical’

          It means the nation is without options and the those entities making up the government have become discredited in the eyes/mind of the electorate

          Your comment verifies what AT actually said

          NZLP is part of the problem and have little to no credibility..


      • Nic the NZer 1.1.2

        When Labour 4 started hacking into union laws and support they were badically gutting their voting base. At the time to maintain this group they needed to be developing a strategy to get similar support from the service industry which typically has lower union membership rates.

  2. AsleepWhileWalking 2

    This is were we’re heading (minus the paradise part). Here is DrBubb..


    The renterfication of the U.S.
    We have discussed the unrelenting trend of renter household formation for years largely because younger households are having a tougher time paying inflated prices for crap shacks. The flood of Millennials buying households just did not materialize. What did happen is that inventory remained tight, investors stepped in, foreign money hit, and a mania took place. Basically an artificially constrained market made crap shacks look attractive. Look, even old hardened bread must appear like paradise to the starving person. Still doesn’t change the fact that the bread is old and stale.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 2.1

      Many people including professional couple households are balking at paying ridiculous prices for dumpy old shacks just so they can say they own and “hey, now I can paint my wall magenta.”

  3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

    Sweden, despite the MSM attempt to shout down Trump is in fact a bit of a disaster.


    Sounds pretty terror like to me.

  4. Cinny 4

    The deputy prime minister faced a hostile crowd, fed-up with escalating crime, when she visited Thames.”

    The outgoing deputy PM is useless, she sympathised with those at the meeting but did not offer any help or solutions. No wonder she is not popular and is absent on the prefer PM polls.

    • Bearded Git 4.1

      Has the feeling of a change of regime in the air.

      • sabeasley@xtra.co.nz 4.1.1

        Could be – but look what they are asking for. More police, cracking down on the poor, criminal classes, the (mostly brown) people who are a threat to the rest of us decent people.
        There’s no desire to lift up rather than crack down, no asking of the ‘why’ questions. If that sort of voter is shifting they’re shifting to Winston, not to the social democratic left

        And of course Bubbles Bennett is just terminally incompetent and spouts constant drivel. And that makes people cross too.

  5. Adrian Thornton 5

    Here is a letter I think Andrew Little and all members and supporters of The NZ Labour Party should read and deeply consider….

    Franklin D. Roosevelt Letter Criticizing Democratic Party and Declining 1940 Nomination

    While of course much of the letter doesn’t relate to our political situation in NZ, some parts are sadly, very relevant.

    Here is a taste of the tone of that letter,

    “The Republican Party has made its nominations this year at the dictation of those who, we all know, always place money ahead of human progress.
    The Democratic Convention, as appears clear from the events of today, is divided on this fundamental issue. Until the Democratic Party through this convention makes overwhelmingly clear its stand in favor of social progress and liberalism, and shakes off all the shackles of control fastened upon it by the forces of conservatism, reaction, and appeasement, it will not continue its march of victory. ”

    “It is best not to straddle ideals. ”

    “I wish to give the Democratic Party the opportunity to make its historic decision clearly and without equivocation. The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time. “

  6. amirite 6

    Tucked safely aside on the NewstalkZB website is this little bit of news – SIS refuses to confirm or deny surveillance of NZ reporters http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/sis-refuses-to-confirm-or-deny-surveillance-of-nz-reporters/

    The silence in the media is deafening.

    • jcuknz 6.1

      Why should they? They are a ‘secret service’
      [maybe sarcastic … I can see two sides to the question.]

  7. ianmac 7

    Wayne Mapp speaks out:
    “Operation Burnham
    by Wayne Mapp

    We can honour both our soldiers and the Afghanis, but only by finding out what really happened on that August night in 2010… though that may not require a full inquiry….
    …As much as anything this explains why I agreed to be interviewed by Jon Stephenson. He has spent more time in Afghanistan than any other New Zealand journalist. As with many independent journalists reporting from war zones this has not been without controversy.

    In August 2010 when Operation Burnham took place I was in Afghanistan on a visit arranged months before. I understood that the operation was among the most significant operations that New Zealand had undertaken in Afghanistan.

    I had been fully briefed on the plan on the morning before it took place. Based on the briefing, and on the advice of the military professionals, I recommended that it proceed.”


  8. Penny Bright 8

    Lawyers defending clients from Afghanistan spell out how the NZDF information relied upon to defend SAS actions during Operation Burnham is ‘plainly incorrect and unreliable’.


    “….8. To summarise, the NZDF map relied on by the NZDF in its recent media release and media conference concerning “Operation Burnham – Area of Operation” labels three villages.

    One of those villages does not exist while the other two have been incorrectly named and mis-identified by the NZDF as our clients’ villages.

    It is unclear to us whether the creation of this flawed document has been the result of misunderstanding, error or otherwise.

    However, it is plainly incorrect and unreliable.

    It must follow that so too are the conclusions which the NZDF seeks to draw from this map, namely that they have never operated in our clients’ villages.

    Indeed on our instructions, the latest NZDF statements are effectively an admission that they did so.

    9. We reiterate that the villages of Naik and Khak Khuday Dad were raided by international forces on 22 August 2010, and that six civilians – non-combatants – were killed and fifteen were seriously injured.

    Our clients therefore stand by their claim that no other military operations took place in the area on that date (or indeed on any other date around that time).

    It follows that it is clear, for all of the reasons set out in our 2correspondence of 28 March 2017, that the NZDF’s Operation Burnham took place in our clients’ villages of Naik and Khak Khuday Dad.

    10. The flawed NZDF map and its derived conclusions therefore reinforce our view that it is untenable for the NZDF to assert that Operation Burnham was a separate operation on the night of 22 August 2010 to the military operation that was carried out that same night in our clients’ villages – or indeed that no NZDF military operations occurred in relation to our clients’ villages.

    11. For the sake of our clients and the New Zealand public, it is imperative that the truth of what happened during the military operation of 22 August 2010 in Tirgiran be established.

    Allegations of serious human rights violations have been made against the NZDF Operation Burnham.

    These must be addressed now and at the outset by way of a formal inquiry as outlined in our letter of yesterday.

    12. As per our recent correspondence, we therefore repeat our request for an independent and full inquiry to commence into Operation Burnham.

    13. We await your response.
    Yours sincerely
    Hon. Gerry Brownlee
    Minister of Defence
    Parliament Buildings
    Wellington 6160
    New Zealand
    BY FAX: (04) 817 6502
    Wayne Eagleson
    Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff
    Parliament Buildings
    Wellington 6160
    New Zealand

  9. Penny Bright 9

    Read this?

    Eyes Wide Shut: The Government’s Guilty Secrets in Afghanistan

    by Jon Stephenson / 22 March, 2017


  10. Muttonbird 10

    Oh crap. More alarming statistics indicating the worsening of social health in New Zealand.

    A record number of children have been taken into state care in the last year – a sign of serious underfunding as Child, Youth and Family (CYF) transitions into the new Ministry for Vulnerable Children, say the Greens.

    Figures released by CYF this week, show 5453 children were placed in the custody of the chief executive in the year to December 2016. It’s a leap of more than 300 on the 5139 children that were taken out of their families the year prior.

    “These figures show that we’re going the wrong way, that Child Youth and Family is having to pick up the pieces of a society that’s really struggling to get by and our children are suffering as a result,” Greens social development spokeswoman Jan Logie.


    No doubt our resident rwnjs will explain this away as kids not choosing their parents wisely, or something.

    • North 10.1

      Great last paragraph Muttonbird. Expect National Party government spokespersons increasingly to resemble the screechy/vacuous cackles types constantly deployed by the Republicans on US TV panels as apologists for the incompetent lout Trump. Like making the US presidency a laughing stock. Same as casting this nation’s child horror in blaming soundbites. Gee thanks Paula. Mum, onetime Social Welfare bludger, still troughing. Piece of crap.

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