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Open Mike 30/01/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, January 30th, 2019 - 153 comments
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153 comments on “Open Mike 30/01/2019”

  1. Jenny - How to get there? 1

    In Australia hundreds of detainees, including New Zealanders, held in indefinite detention, pending forced deportation, have been reported to be on hunger strike. 

    The Australian authorities have denied the reports

    The government here is being quiet about it.

    What’s wrong with them?

    Will New Zealanders have to start dying in Australian detention before they make a statement?

    This is so different to before they were elected to government.

    The government’s silence is so deafening that the National opposition were moved to comment on it in the context, of the then opposition, now government MPs, previous outspokeness. Not that National would do anything different, just they never expressed any outrage to begin with. (before or after the election)

    Australia: Hundreds of immigration detainees launch hunger strikes
    Eric Ludlow – World Socialist website, January 26, 2019

    “Australian man to be deported to NZ, despite never having been here”
    Joel Ineson and Joanne Carroll – Sunday Star Times. January 27, 2019

    Todd McClay, National’s foreign affairs spokesman, said he could understand why Australians “would want some of these people out of their country”.

    “Just as when non-citizens commit serious crimes here in New Zealand, we should also be looking to send them home. 

    “However, where someone has never been to New Zealand, or has lived most of their life in Australia, it seems more of an Australian issue rather than one for New Zealand.”

    McClay’s concern was people deported here “to continue to break the law”.

    “In Opposition the Labour Party made a lot of noise about the rights of Kiwis who have broken the law in Australia.

    “Their Deputy Leader Kelvin Davis stood in front of Australian detentions centres demanding the Australian Government change its policy. However since forming the Government, as with many things, they’ve been silent on this issue.”​​

    • Adrian Thornton 1.1

      Yes what is up with our leaders (both Labour & National)…they act as if they are frightened by Australians or something?

      No outrage, no anger let alone intervention at our fellow citizens being treated like dogs by the neighbors next door…nope nothing, probably just the wrong class for them to really give too much of a fuck about….you can be sure there would be a different reaction from politicians (and the media) if this were happening to some pretty white middle class kids.

      Either that or I guess it could well be Labour being pragmatic…yet again.

      • Morrissey 1.1.1

        When terrorists struck New Zealand in June 1985, the Hawke regime—supposedly a “Labor” government—immediately fell into line with Reagan and Thatcher, and offered hardly a word of consolation, leave alone supporting us against the government that had sent the terrorists here.

        • millsy 1.1.1.1

          What people don’t realise is at the end of the day, Australia doesn’t give a shit about NZ and will gladly throw us under a bus on a whim.

          • Morrissey 1.1.1.1.1

            They did, in 1985.

          • Gosman 1.1.1.1.2

            What people in NZ and NZ citizens in Australia fail to realise is that Australia sets laws in it’s own country as it sees fit and if people choose to breech them they will suffer consequences. If they don’t want to suffer those consequences they should either not commit crimes leading to those consequences AND/OR become an Australian citizen so that those consequences will not occur.

            • Gabby 1.1.1.1.2.1

              There’s an element of retrospectivity (to coin a frankyism) though isn’t there gozzer. I mean fair enough, I s’pose there’s no excuse for ignorance of what the law might be changed to, in Gozzerworld.

              • Gosman

                Deciding to live in another country while knowing you are a citizen of another AND choosing to commit a crime would suggest these people don’t think much at all about their actions. I am not sure why we should feel sorry for them.

                • arkie

                  Just like those wealthy people who decide to move their taxable income offshore while knowing it is illegal to avoid their obligation to pay taxes eh?

                  • Gosman

                    Yes, if people are guilty of committing tax evasion they should be prosecuted and, if found guilty, should suffer the consequences. I see no problem with that. I also don’t see any problem with legally using systems to AVOID paying more tax than necessary. You would be an idiot to pay more tax than you should.

                    • arkie

                      Except if you are on a salary or waged income you don’t have the luxury of ‘legally’ avoiding paying your fair share, it comes right out before you even get it. So not so much an idiot as not actually having a choice, you know, like children taken to and then raised in Australia not having a choice in moving to another country.

                • Gabby

                  If they moved there as infants they didn’t choose did they gozzer. Then the larrikin convict ockies turned them into crims.

                  • Gosman

                    They choose when they become an adult NOT to pursue a path to citizenship (which does exist for NZ citizens). They also choose whether to commit a crime while being a non-Australian citizen residing in Australia.

                    • mpledger

                      Some of them didn’t even commit a crime before being deported. Some of them didn’t know they would be deported if they committed a crime i.e. the law was “interpreted” differently to how it is now.

                      If someone goes to Oz before they get to school age then any issues should be Oz’s problem to deal with. Their education system failed that child and they should be accountable for it. NZ should sue for the cost of that failure.

                • Andrea

                  Oh, Gosman… Not you, too? ‘Deciding to to live in another country…’

                  Some little kid of three or four gets taken to Aus by its parents. Grows up in Aus. Thinks of itself as an Aussie. Sees no reason to ‘become a citizen’ because, well, aren’t they already?

                  And then the Horribly Virtuous start their snuffling about ‘don’t do the crime’ and ‘should have taken the citizen path’ blah blah.

                  Meanwhile, dear old Aus, land of sunshine and bonhomie, has happily sucked in taxes from these people. At the very least GST and petrol excise. They’re also Aussie tax payers.

                  Product of Australia. Somewhat tarnished as to character, according to the Rest of Us so why are we getting these salt of the earth, True Blue Aussie convicted crims who are carrying on such a fine tradition?

                  If they arrived when they were under twelve and were raised there – Aus should keep them.
                  Kiwi crims who paid for their own tickets – yep. Bring ’em home, part them from bad company, and see if they can straighten up.

                  But not the little kids who grew up bent. Not the people who have gone straight. Keep them, Aus. Give them a fair go.

          • Peter 1.1.1.1.3

            Yes.

        • Anne 1.1.1.2

          The attitude of our ‘nearest and dearest’ in 1985 was :

          Stuff ya! If you’re gonna go nuclear free without our permission then we’re not gonna stand by you.

          And they didn’t. Instead, Thatcher and Reagan upped the anti and it stayed that way for years.

          So, we said:

          Stuff ya! You can stick your bloody ANZUS where the sun don’t shine.

          And we did. Nowadays, both countries treat us with a lot more respect than they did prior to 1985.

          I regard the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior as one of the biggest turning points in the history of this country. Onya David Lange for standing up to them!

          • alwyn 1.1.1.2.1

            I fear you are rewriting history Anne.
            It wasn’t Lange who went after the people who bombed the Rainbow Warrior. It was the Police.
            It was Lange who let them go back to French Territory before their sentences were up. They were supposed to serve out their time there but when they got there the French welcomed them as heroes and let them go free shortly thereafter.
            He was being sensible of course. The French were threatening to cause havoc with out exports to the EU and his was a purely pragmatic approach.
            https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/nuclear-free-new-zealand/rainbow-warrior

            It also wasn’t Lange’s doing that led to our ban on Nuclear armed ships. Lange was trying to find a way to allow the USS Buchanan to come to New Zealand even though the US wouldn’t state, much less prove, that it wasn’t nuclear armed. When it all proved to hard for him he took of on a tour of the Pacific Islands and made damn sure he couldn’t be conducted which left things up to Geoffrey Palmer.
            “It left the decision to reject it to be made by Acting Prime Minister Sir Geoffrey Palmer, because Lange was unable to be contacted – even though he was obliged to be able to be reached.”

            When he did get back he found that he was regarded as a hero in New Zealand and he quickly decided to rewrite his actions and views.
            Pretty typical for a Politician wasn’t it?
            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11785166

          • SHG 1.1.1.2.2

            Onya David Lange for standing up to them!

            Standing up to them?! Lange grasped his ankles.

            • Tamati Tautuhi 1.1.1.2.2.1

              Lange didn’t know what was going on he was too busy debating at Oxford University ?

    • RedLogix 1.2

      In Opposition the Labour Party made a lot of noise about the rights of Kiwis who have broken the law in Australia.

      The point being of course that even if you have ‘broken the law’ we understand that people still have rights.

      If an Australian citizen breaks the law, the punishment might be say … “‘six months in prison’. It doesn’t then include …. ‘deportation to a country you’ve never lived in and have no connection to’.

      Effectively people who are technically New Zealand citizens are being punished substantially more severely for the same offenses.

      What is worse, you don’t even have to have committed an offense. The Minister (or department) can deport you for any reason whatsoever on ‘character’ grounds. Hypothetically it’s possible someone in the Australian govt might read this comment, decide I’m undesirable, and have me on a plane next week.

      It’s this arbitrary and unaccountable aspect of how this Liberal/Nat govt are running their deportation policy which rankles.

    • Gabby 1.3

      To be fair, Kelve’s not made much noise about anything.

    • McFlock 1.4

      If our opposition speaks out publicly, nobody in ‘straya cares.

      If our government speaks out publicly, their govt would probably just double-down. Because the aussies have a government of fuckwits.

      • Andrea 1.4.1

        “Because the aussies have a government of fuckwits.”

        Not for much longer…

        Unless Budgie Smuggler Abbott returns.

    • soddenleaf 1.5

      A few remarks. We don’t know why they are being asked to leave. We do know they’d rather stay in an Australia jail than move to NZ. Don’t they like NZ? Sure looks like some lived there their whole lives, and obviously that’s unsettling unless there are reasons. Like their parents are also… …wait a sec ain’t that the real problem, that the facts are hidden. So I’m inclined to wait until a real case of not artificial anger. Where exposed the Australians have backed off, so the anger is it just for criminals who don’t like NZ? There are 700,000? kiwis in oz, many arrived before 2002, they arent worried. Why? they know oz better? Why should Nz raise a canker when most kiwis in oz aren’t? Could it be that when real cases are being highlighted they get sorted.

    • ScottGN 2.1

      That’s a very good editorial Robert.

    • “… surrounded by shouts and whispers in which high-toned reproach jostles with salacious interest.”

      Yep.

      To me it is all utter bullshit. It is just more weaponry used in this dirty war where mental health issues/angles are just another tool to inflict damage on the enemy, real or imagined.

    • ianmac 2.3

      So true, “”Things are consequence-based. Your actions result in consequences and you need to think about that.””
      Yes and face up to your actions.

    • Dennis Frank 2.4

      She texted that he deserved to die. That’s a moral judgment. If the law can be interpreted by a court to mean she incited him to commit suicide, the law’s an ass. Alternatively, the court’s interpretation may be wrong, and a higher court may decide that. I doubt anyone really expects parliamentarians to be stripped of their right to make moral judgments, do they?

      • mac1 2.4.1

        Moral judgement or not, what is the chance of a suicidal consequence when telling someone who is depressed, psychotic, impulsive, or crying out for help they deserve to die.. They are four of six reasons why people commit suicide.

        Secondly, who has the moral authority to say to another that they deserve to die?

        What Ms Dowie wrote was not a moral judgement. A judgement requires a considered and thoughtful approach, not the passionate outburst of a betrayed person engaged in betrayal herself.

      • greywarshark 2.4.2

        Well that text didn’t use what I consider important judgments for the future – Is it kind, is it practical? She didn’t feel kind, and why should she; she was furious, a direct and straightforward emotion. But it wasn’t practical to put that in writing.

        Haven’t these young people of today got any of Dunne’s common-sense.? What an oxymoron that word is. All prospective MPs need to be asked some questions about their level of commonsense – high or low? I have heard of someone going for a corporate job and being put through piles of psychological tests. They are very demanding in their choice. I think it is over the top but there needs to be a grid of basic questions that newbies get asked.

        Becoming an MP is an important role supposedly serving the country, through their Party, and it should not be a shoe-in for some well-connected Party member’s offspring. That is how we got Roger Douglas for Labour and Cameron Slater in a strong position to support National and their MPs and functionaries.

      • Incognito 2.4.3

        We must all pay for our sins and deserve to die. That’s a moral judgement. If, OTOH, you kick a man who’s down, vulnerable, on the verge of losing it and having (another?) mental breakdown and, knowing this, you express a whole load of animosity (hatred?) towards this man then it goes way beyond a moral judgement, it becomes a (deeply) personal wish with the full force of your being behind it. You have to be careful what you wish for because some wishes have a tendency of self-fulfilling and becoming true …

        • greywarshark 2.4.3.1

          You have to be careful what you wish for… That is a reminder of a wise saw that has been

          MP or aspiring ladder climber list: Self control…think before venting…count to ten….not be angrily vicious on line. Be practical and say it to yourself 100 times as you stamp around your room and throw things (that don’t matter if they get broken), but don’t put pen to paper, finger to keyboard, or voice to communicator.

        • marty mars 2.4.3.2

          Everyone dies as part of their life therefore you could say we DO deserve to die. The ‘when’ is the biggie.

          • greywarshark 2.4.3.2.1

            marty mars
            Yes I have been saying that for some time along with other thinking and switched-on humans. Euthanasia, properly planned legally organised, carried out in a way that allows dignity is something we humans deserve.
            Obstacles to finding it unsatisfactory and scary and unethical, could be surmounted in an appropriate way. Then the ‘when and how’ leaves the way to an end to life that would be sadly resigned, but happily designed.

            Opposition to it comes from people who are unable to face living full in the face as well as occasional acceptance of dying, ugh! And so wrapped up in themselves and their present circumstances and personal beliefs, that they can’t objectively participate in discussions with people who just want a legal system set up to become a ritual for dying if wanted. There could be one that is satisfactory to people in society of good standing.

            We can’t bring ourselves to think deeply about the larger woes of people under the cruel regimes of the world. Barbarism R’Us. In so many countries people are suffering in their thousands killed by other humans. So to avoid any thinking of that we put up excess concern about whether someone dies six months earlier than time of complete breakdown, or six years earlier than c.b.; perhaps when the mind goes, but the body keeps mechanically on, the faithful servant. Sad isn’t it that we can’t be kind to each other even in the onslaught of death.

          • Chris 2.4.3.2.2

            Tell that to Dowie’s lawyer. Her defence could be “I didn’t mean now, silly.”

      • veutoviper 2.4.4

        Parliamentarians are no different to anyone else when it comes to the law, Dennis. It applies to them in the same way – or should.

        In this particular case, the text message has raised questions over whether there was a breach of the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015, passed under National and voted for by Dowie. The law regulates digital communications, including text messages, making it illegal to urge someone to self-harm (“an incitement to self-harm”) which is punishable by up to three years in prison.

        There is also some question as to whether it may also – or instead – breach similar provisions in the Crimes Act (cannot recall exactly the section) relating to suicide, which carry even heavier penalties.

        The circumstances in which such a statement as “You deserve to die” was made surely affect whether it can be considered a moral judgment or not.

        For example, would you say that such a statement made in the heat of a major argument; at the time of an acrimonious relationship break-up, or some time later; and/ or made in a state of intoxication, is really a rational moral judgment?

        I have posted a number of times here on the timing of the text – in the earlier hours of a Saturday morning following an event held in Parliament’s Banquet Hall the evening before hosted by Dowie and others promoting Southland, some months after the break-up of Dowie and Ross’ relationship.

        It is really now up to NZ Police to decide through their investigation, inter alia:

        — whether or not there is sufficient evidence to prove that the text was an intentional incitement to self-harm under the HDCA or any other relevant Act to lay a prosecution; or

        — whether the circumstances around the sending of the text were such that they discount, or reduce the possibility of, it being an intentional rational action – regardless of whether it was a rational judgment, moral or otherwise – and thus provide insufficient evidence to lay a prosecution.

        Other circumstances to possibly be taken into account are any mental health issues, in relation to either the sender, the recipient, or both.

        • Dennis Frank 2.4.4.1

          I think the police prosecutor will decide the issue on the basis of common sense, since any rationality that can be deemed to apply is a matter of opinion. I presume likelihood of conviction by a court would be the primary practical consideration for the prosecutor. Time-wasting in respect of the clogged court system will also be a factor…

          • Incognito 2.4.4.1.1

            Don’t backtrack on this now, Dennis. Is this a (romantic? sexual?) relationship gone South sour between two ordinary people or is one MP wishing the death of another MP? Imagine if one had committed suicide. That would have had direct implications for Parliament. I don’t think the case is simple at all, which might be why it has taken so long for the Police investigation.

            • Dennis Frank 2.4.4.1.1.1

              Re the psychology of the situation, I’ve got an open mind, but I’m inclined to pragmatically dismiss motives as irrelevant. The prosecutor will discount them, I reckon. If there are dimensions to the situation that have yet to emerge, they could explain the delay.

              • veutoviper

                “I’m inclined to pragmatically dismiss motives as irrelevant.”

                Thank goodness you are not a lawyer, judge etc Dennis. LOL.

                And my understanding is that there are other dimensions to the situation that have not yet emerged publicly – and some of them probably shouldn’t.

                • Dennis Frank

                  Not as a general principle, of course! Just in respect of the fact that motives are unknowable. Half the time folks motivated to strike out in anger do so in response to unconscious motivations.

                  We can’t expect prosecutors and courts to take wild guesses about stuff that perpetrators aren’t even conscious of, right?

                  • veutoviper

                    Obviously prosecutors and courts don’t/shouldn’t make wild guesses about motives – whether or not these are conscious or unconscious.

                    But motive (Why?) is a major part of most judicial/court processes – a question that is often/usually asked of the perpetrators/defendant(s), the witnesses to the alleged crime, and the families and friends of both the defendant(s) and the victim(s).

                    Why? plays a big part in the initial investigation processes by Police before a decision is made whether or not to lay a prosecution, in the pre-trial procedures, and in court itself. For example:
                    “Why did you do …?”
                    “Do you know why you did …?”
                    “Do you know any reasons why X may have done …?”
                    “What factors do you think drove X to do …” etc

                    Yes – obviously there are times when the motivations are unconscious to the perpetrator, and/or unknown to witnesses, families and friends.

                    But there can be a big difference in whether a decision is made to prosecute or not, and in the final decisions in a court case, and the sentence handed down – based on motive, and the awareness or lack of awareness of both the motive and the possible consequences of the action taken to both the perpetrator(s) and any victims.

                    • Dennis Frank

                      Yes, I agree to all that. I just don’t believe the prosecutor will be inclined to factor that stuff in because his/her professional discipline will intervene. Thus the discounting…

                    • veutoviper

                      I give up! Head meets desk. LOL

              • OnceWasTim

                You’re not trying to channel Wayne Mapp or Pete George from a politically neutral standpoint are you @ Dennis? (Pragmatically speaking of course)

                I withdraw and apologise unreservedly

                • Dennis Frank

                  All sorts of people are capable of being neutral. Likening them to each other seems a pointless exercise in generalisation… 🙄

                • veutoviper

                  This conversation really has nothing to do with politics or political neutrality at this point!

                  Rather it has morphied into discussion on the role of motive in the judicial process …

                  We could probably do with Wayne Mapp popping in with his long legal background! I was seriously thinking about sending out a SOS to mickysavage also. LOL

          • veutoviper 2.4.4.1.2

            Sure, but that comment seems to be a long way from the position you took in your earlier one at 2.4 in relation to deeming the statement in the text a moral judgment, the law being an ass if the text is interpreted by a court as an incitement to suicide, and parliamentarians’ rights to make moral judgments.

            In practical terms, I fully expect to see a Police decision to not take the matter to prosecution.

            IMO this will be based on past performance of NZ Police trying to avoid prosecutions on political/politics-related matters, insufficient evidence, lack of probability of securing a conviction, etc. I also believe that the overall circumstances resulting in the sending of the text as per my comment will play a big part in that decision, not least of all my final sentence, Read it carefully.

            However, I presume that when you say the police prosecutor will decide the issue, you are referring only to whether it goes onto court via a prosecution being laid; and I challenge your “on the basis of common sense, since any rationality that can be deemed to apply is a matter of opinion”.

            Every prosecution laid by NZ Police could be considered to be based on “rational opinion” with the Courts then responsible for judging whether that “rational opinion” is correct or not.

            I will now stop being a bloody pedant.

            Back to the investigation. On the one hand, I have been quite angry at the difference in treatment in this case in relation to public exposure of one party, while the other party was protected, supported and hidden for so long. I am pleased that the latter has now been finally publicly named, and it would not surprise me if this has actually been a bit of a relief to her.

            OTOH, whether any real purpose would be served by a prosecution being laid is questionable IMO.

        • sumsuch 2.4.4.2

          Has someone counted up National’s’ uh,uh,no’ oddbods against Labour’s. Any moral superiority there ? I wouldn’t expect so, middle-class expectant egotists both. But the Greens up until now…And I have to admit my opinion is Rightie politicians are generally nicer personally.

      • Gabby 2.4.5

        In some contexts ‘don’t kill yourself’ could be incitement to suicide frankie. Context.

        • Dennis Frank 2.4.5.1

          Yes, you make a profound point there Gabby. Putting the possibility into their mind, or, more likely, reinforcing one possible path to the future.

    • soddenleaf 2.5

      Sorry, won’t Police just warn her, and she just argue it was heated banter from a close relationship.. ..like many. It’s not beating your kid for misbehaviour.

      • greywarshark 2.5.1

        That’s an interesting point soddenleaf. I have for a long time felt that psychological damage does more harm than light physical punishment, though not beating, that sounds severe. But a nasty jibe can really hurt if one is feeling vulnerable.

        Sue Bradford was trying to stop harm to youngsters and reduce violence. But if there had been a look at how to discipline the tongue, the mind, the actual numbers of serious physical events would have dropped away. One thing I have heard is that talking counselling has been lessened because it is more costly than other treatments such as using medication.

        People who had been caned at school said it hurt but you moved on. It was more straightforward and over quickly in their view. But thinking of school, I am sure Maori who got hit on the knuckles when speaking Te reo, were not happy and that was done in a frequent fashion by teachers. Discussing the problem from a psychological angle would have lessened the violence however.

        The mind and body have to go together. We are just working with our minds here. Probably just as well or if face to face someone would get thumped some time.

        An example of being hurt in one’s personality by psychological jabs.
        A murderer’s background;
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeme_Burton
        Burton was adopted as a baby by an older couple. Burton was described as an artistic and polite child. His adoptive father died when Burton was two. This left his adoptive mother to raise him on her own. It seems she struggled to cope and was very critical of Burton as he was growing up. If he misbehaved, she would remind him he was adopted and threaten to give him back. As a result of put downs and constant criticism, Burton grew up feeling insecure and angry, with little sense of attachment to his adopted mother. He began using drugs at the age of 15.

        He killed again and was shot by the police. He said afterwards:
        When Burton was asked to give his account of what happened he said he did not want to go back to prison and hoped he would be killed: “I saw the police and thought, ‘It’s over’. I was happy. I ran at them smiling, thinking, ‘It’s over, thank God it’s over’. The police shot me and I was hit in the artery in my leg. I thought I’d bleed out. I surrendered as I thought death was certain. Unfortunately, that was not the case, much to my disgust, as I wanted to be killed. I was gutted that I wasn’t killed.

        • soddenleaf 2.5.1.1

          Yes, of course, its like the extreme case. The MP entire focus of his career was smashed by the PM, he was obviously exposed and an allegedly singular willful comment about death was criminal in your view. Arguable though bullying is built into the kiwi construct, coming in part from Maori challenging behaviour, and kiwis have thicker skins as a general rule. It’s not like entering politics was going to get any nicer, and given politician capacity to play victim… …So sure even if you are correct, you’d still need to talk to the context, their politicians it’s the game, ordinarily you’d just show the willful disregard but in this case you’d have to show both his authenticity and incapacity guven his profession. Like a black belt, you don’t assume they didn’t use their black arts to get a broken leg just for the win, they do if the other party gets worse off. That psychological stuff again, its never linear, its always mind interacting. That’s why victims of abuse stay with partners, a whole assortment, surely, of baggage and misappraisals. She just, and i gelieve has already laid tge ground, for tge counter claim, a moment of madness from abuse. sad, but no Burten. i.e unlike Burten the relationship was of abusive authority, and this was simple equals.

  2. Morrissey 3

    Speaking Of Abrams, What Did He Know About Genocide In Guatemala?
    by JIM LOBE, May 10, 2013

    A Guatemalan court this afternoon found former President Efrain Rios Montt guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity committed against the indigenous Mayan Ixil population as a result of the counter-insurgency campaign he directed as president from 1982 to 1983; that is, in the middle of Elliott Abrams’ tenure as the Reagan administration’s assistant secretary of state for human rights. While human rights, church groups, and the American Anthropological Association repeatedly denounced that campaign (with some actually calling it “genocide”), the administration moved during that period to restore and increase military aid to the government. In fact, after visiting personally with Rios Montt in Honduras in early December, 1982, Reagan himself declared that the born-again president was getting a “bum rap” from rights groups and journalists and that he was “a man of great personal integrity” who faced “a brutal challenge from guerrillas armed and supported by others outside Guatemala.”

    Here’s what Human Rights Watch, with which Abrams clashed quite frequently over rights conditions in Central America, including Guatemala, during Rios Montt’s reign, said tonight after the verdict was announced….

    Read more….
    https://lobelog.com/speaking-of-abrams-what-did-he-know-about-genocide-in-guatemala/

    UPDATE: On Friday January 25th (five days ago) President Donald Trump appointed Elliott Abrams as “Special Envoy to Venezuela.”

    • Dennis Frank 3.1

      Watching that stuff go down at the time, I categorised Abrams as a closet-fascist. Has he mellowed with age? We’re reminded that Reagan’s regime didn’t just support the contras in Nicaragua, they supported fascism in central & south America.

      Fascist govts using death-squads to eliminate political opposition were the trend of the times. It’s why I’ve found those commentators here who call Trump fascist so amusing. It’s like they have a memory problem and have forgotten how to identify a real fascist. Only if evidence emerges that such a tendency is being promoted by the Trump regime will we have good reason to apply that label to it. Crying wolf only impresses folks if a wolf shows up. Let’s watch what Abrams does carefully!

      • Morrissey 3.1.1

        A wolf has shown up, Dennis. Elliott Abrams.

        And he’s a mild and caring wolf compared to Mike Pompeo, John Bolton, and Mike Pence.

  3. Chris T 4

    Ardern and Kelvin used to talk about it and then went strangely quiet.

    • mac1 4.1

      Chris T, what is ‘it’ and when did they stop talking about it?

      I suspect you’re using the “damned if they do and damned if they don’t approach”. Don’t talk about it and you’re damned for your silence; talk about it and you’re “banging on” about it.

      “Strangely quiet”. Are you hinting at collusion, hypocrisy, garrulousness or forgetfulness?

      • Morrissey 4.1.1

        They should bang on about it. The right will despise them even more if they continue to be cowardly and quiet.

        Ardern’s “decision” not to meet detainees in Nauru was an act of cowardice. She won no plaudits for it, only contempt by her enemies, and disenchantment by her supporters.

  4. ScottGN 5

    Earlier this month Paris Mayor Anne Hildago has announced free public transport for all children under 11 and a 50% concession for students aged 14 years to 18 years from September. She’s also announced free travel passes for all disabled people up to age 20. Last year she introduced free travel for low income disabled Parisians and those aged 65 and over (similar to our Super Gold Card).

    http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/paris-la-gratuite-du-metro-pour-les-moins-de-11-ans-c-est-loin-d-etre-anodin-10-01-2019-7985790.php?utm_medium=website&utm_source=archdaily.com

    https://www.archdaily.com/910324/paris-to-make-public-transport-free-for-children

    • SaveNZ 5.1

      +1 ScottGN – here in NZ trying to get a child a HOP card is treated differently to an adult – the mind boggles why it is so hard to get one for a child and you have to send off ID, do paperwork online and then wait 72 hours….!!!

      Then how the HOP card instead of being 20c for the cost of the plastic is $10. So if you have a family, or a visitor then you are spending a fortune before you even put the money on and if you lose the cards then it’s $40+ to replace them all for nuclear family of 4…. can see why a) it’s too expensive for families to use public transport, b) whoever decided the pricing structures and to not allow kids HOP off the shelf like adults cards, is a Moron.

      Total spend for family of four to go 2 stages return is $60.96 because the HOP cards cost $40 plus you can’t get the child ones straight away. So you are better to travel by car for groups, and it will a lot quicker as currently takes about 45 minutes to travel 11km KM’s by bus on AT.

      Or what most people probably do for the child pay the $10 return cash fare for the kids making it $20 return for two kids going a 2 stages return on the cash fare without HOP. Ridiculously over priced for children.

      AT are so inefficient that is why they charge so much for HOP. The HOP was a scandal in the first place because how they do it IT wise is worst practice which is why unlike Japan where HOP equivalent lasts 10 years, in NZ they want to expire your credit after a few months. (Yet another deterrent to public transport).

      • greywarshark 5.1.1

        savenz
        So good to see facts as the ordinary person would confront a system and how they would use it. Not a load of theories and opinions about what and how things need to be, should be done.

        What about all decisions on planning and procedure start on how will this affect the ordinary person, tracing the pathway they would need to take and seeing how
        effective for them it is! What a breakthrough in public policy and even private policy that would be.

        • Sacha 5.1.1.1

          If you want actual facts about HOP, I’d start here: https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/?s=hop+card

          • SaveNZ 5.1.1.1.1

            What is your point??? HOP cards cost $10 and you can’t easily buy one for a child and it takes time and ridiculously expensive those figures are from the AT website fares.

            One of the issues with HOP/AT/Auckland council is that so many people on the take in PR and in those groups are defending it, and force (mostly single people) onto it. However it is does not work out for anybody else… quite often you see the buses empty or barely full.. that is because people don’t like to be ripped off and it does not serve anyone but AT and there many hanger ons.

            IF AT actually took criticism and had a clue and spent it on a better service instead of wasting money on PR and consultants we would all be better off.

            • Sacha 5.1.1.1.1.1

              “so many people on the take in PR and in those groups are defending it”

              What are you saying? There are a lot of reasons to not like HOP, but most of what you are talking about is related to other parts of the system.

              • SaveNZ

                Who cares what system, the public isn’t concerned they just want a usable fair service, the HOP is a failure for families and children and many others. Why defend them? Even the commerce commission or consumer affairs (can’t remember which) are investigating them or got their attention with their rip off service with the credits being removed after a few months.

                The reason why nothing changes in NZ, is when someone has a valid complaint all manner of people connected to the screw up rushes out to divert attention to the screw up, nit pick on something else and try to stop change for the better.

            • ScottGN 5.1.1.1.1.2

              SaveNZ I get the bus to/from work now. The 25 and 27 from Mt Eden. The buses are almost always pretty full and at a rough guess about 95% of passengers are using a hop card.
              I don’t have children so I can’t comment on your difficulties getting a hop card for a minor.
              I’m not going to defend AT except to say that public transport in Auckland is now about a million times better than it used to be. And buses are the workhorses of the system.

  5. Morrissey 6

    AID TO GEN. FRANCO
    United Press Association—By Electric Telegraph—Copyright. (Received February 18, 11.30 a.m.) LONDON, February 17.

    The diplomatic correspondent of “The Times” says it is widely assumed that the foreign Governments which are supporting General Franco believe that they will have supplied him with sufficient aid by the time non-intervention is enforced to bring his campaign to a successful conclusion. The inflow, especially of Italians, has been very rapid in the past few weeks, and the total number of Italians has risen from 10,000 to 50,000.

    The “Manchester Guardian’s” diplomatic correspondent agrees that 50,000 Italians and ample supplies of war material are at present in Spain, and adds [hat the dispatch of Russian war material to the loyalists is declining. French volunteering has come to a standstill and thousands of disillusioned men are clamouring to be repatriated. The campaign has become mainly an Italian war against the diminishing loyalist party. Germany is now playing a minor part, and it is reported that she does not desire to leave considerable forces in Spain when they may be needed in Central Europe in the near future.

    Evening Post, Thursday 18 Feb. 1937, page 9

  6. Morrissey 7

    The disgraceful and discredited British state broadcaster
    continues to repeat the wildest fantasies out of the Clinton camp.

    RNZ National News, Wednesday 30 January 2019, 9 a.m.

    Just heard one Jane O’Brien of the BBC claim that Wikileaks “published emails stolen by Russian hackers.”

    There is no evidence of that, of course. It is far, far more likely that the incriminating emails were leaked by people in the foolish, dishonest, doomed Hillary Clinton campaign. But that doesn’t restrain the British state broadcaster from repeating the unfounded allegations.

    The BBC has been a cruel and unfunny joke for a long time. Now and again they come a cropper….

  7. lprent 8

    Testing the media library uploads with picture of Mort – because of a problem with the CDN (Content Distributed Network).

    “Mort helps with the morning video edits” – click for larger image

    The site will be a bit slower today until the plugin bug is fixed. The images will be served from my server rather than by AWS

    • greywarshark 8.1

      lprent
      That cat looks very alert and aware, I am sure he/she/it will be of assistance in anything you do. Hope you find that bug. Down here we are being asked to look for a particular sort of paper wasp, that has venom that can be used usefully for something. /sarc

      • Anne 8.1.1

        Assistance? Nah. That cat is a bundle of naughtiness and will remain so for at least two years. It’s in the eyes. The more innocent they look the worse they are.

        Hope you and Lyn are prepared for a rocky ride Iprent. 😉

        • greywarshark 8.1.1.1

          You reckon someone will be climbing the curtains and it won’t be the cat Anne?

          • Anne 8.1.1.1.1

            Oh the cat will be climbing the curtains and swinging on them – especially the taggy bits at the top. More likely Iprent will pull them down in a fit of exasperation.

        • lprent 8.1.1.2

          Lyn is a bit of a pincushion. Especially since she works at home.

          I on the other hand have only a few marks even after the last week at home. I escalate to kindness if the cat uses his weapons in play. He winds up with an rapid escalation to a two handed scragging as I do some point scoring touching ears and tail with tickling everywhere. That is followed by an involuntary servitude as a onstrained grooming object as I rub him.up both ways. He gets released after 3-10 minutes when I am sure he has calmed down.

          Needless to say he is mostly kitty soft paws and nips carefully when I play with him.

          I will be glad when he finishes his vaccinations, is sterilized, and gets his microchip and catdoor. I had forgotten how much work kittens are before they start sleeping more.

    • mary_a 8.2

      lprent …. Mort is so gorgeous. Look forward to some pic updates as he/she grows. Thanks for sharing.

    • mauī 8.3

      Cool cat. No doubt an expurrt in Apache Tomcat and CAT-5 cabling tasks.

  8. Dennis Frank 9

    “Every year around about this time, National floats its own distinct vision of a different sort of Green Party.” Gordon Campbell proves his point via a quote from Bridges this time last year almost identical to the one he made the other day. http://werewolf.co.nz/2019/01/gordon-campbell-on-nationals-new-fledgling-blue-green-partner/

    Is he turning Hindu? They believe the wheel of karma ensures that history repeats itself endlessly, so that no progress can ever be made.

    “Bridges has been talking out of both sides of his mouth this week. In the RNZ interview linked to above, Bridges said that while any new environmental party would have to be “organic” and be able to “drive itself” he wouldn’t rule out an Epsom-like deal in future.”

    “National is no friend of proportional representation, and apparently cannot function within its rules. Instead, it seems a bit like one of those big kids whose parents need to bribe other kids to show up to its birthday party.”

    Gordon proceeds to contradict Vernon Tava and Kennedy Graham: “In the cause of truth-in-packaging, lets be clear that the blue-green party being touted would NOT be centrist. It would be a greenwashing exercise aimed at softening National’s economic fundamentalism, without unduly getting in its way. Does anyone really think an environmental party dependent on National for its presence in Parliament would be capable of speaking truth to power? As soon as any “centrist” environmental party seriously suggested to a future National government that the ‘polluter pays’ principle should extend to farmers, they’d be toast.”

    Gordon is signalling that Hindu thinking has infected his brain too. But then he does make a good point: “Finally, only the paranoid right could regard the Greens as a ‘far left’ party. Any party that signs up to an austerity straightjacket like the Budget Responsibility Rules – as the Greens did – is not a left wing party. It is a centrist party, and arguably to the right of public sentiment on social issues. It is only National’s inability to update its 1990s views on the environment, taxation and socio-economic inequality that keeps the Greens from working with National.”

    • greywarshark 9.1

      “It is only National’s inability to update its 1990s views on the environment, taxation and socio-economic inequality that keeps the Greens from working with National.”

      Which makes the Greens our heroes.
      I think, after some important changes, that this statement is the correct one: “It is only [Labour’s] National’s [expressed intention] inability to update its 1990s views on the environment, taxation and socio-economic inequality that keeps the Greens [working WITH LABOUR] from working with National.”

      • Dennis Frank 9.1.1

        Yes. If the Nats were to morph out of mass brain-death, Aotearoa would become a vastly better country. That’s the problem that the GP has always been trying to solve, but the key to the solution lies with the bluegreens. Dumb buggers keep failing to insert it into the lock and turn it! Yet they pretend to believe in freedom! Self-liberation is the first step to transforming their collective delusion into a better reality.

        • greywarshark 9.1.1.1

          Dennis
          I love your stuff. It is like the advice from the good dieters – eat more greens, worth taking the time to chew on, because it gives more time for reflection and better outcomes.

    • Gabby 9.2

      Why you banging on about hindus frankie?

      • Dennis Frank 9.2.1

        I’ve always had an aversion to that mass psychology. Call me a sucker for the western myth of progress if you like, I don’t mind. Stasis, ugh!

        • greywarshark 9.2.1.1

          Gabby
          I think this is the key phrase that draws on Hindu philosophy that DF doesn’t think results in hopeful change.

          Is he turning Hindu? They believe the wheel of karma ensures that history repeats itself endlessly, so that no progress can ever be made.

        • Gabby 9.2.1.2

          Is Gordon a praxising hindu frankie?

          • Dennis Frank 9.2.1.2.1

            If he is, it hasn’t sufficed to make him perfect. More likely the mimetic contagion is tacit. Belief systems as complex memes, operating as alien invaders of the psyche: that’s the thesis of Mind Wars

            “Mimesis is a critical and philosophical term that carries a wide range of meanings, which include imitation, representation, mimicry, imitatio, receptivity, nonsensuous similarity, the act of resembling, the act of expression, and the presentation of the self.” [Wikipedia]

        • marty mars 9.2.1.3

          Hinduism is a very wide subject that perhaps you should read a bit about. Bit like saying Christians are scum just because some are. Leads to bigotry that way does.

  9. James 10

    Watching UK news this morning.

    A good morning for those supporting brexit.

    So far at least.

    • Morrissey 10.1

      You’ve provided no context or explanation. Could you tell us why Brexit’s a good idea, in your mind?

      • James 10.1.1

        I said it’s a good morning (last time I read the news) for those supporting it.

        I never gave a personal view on it.

        As for context – see any UK news site they have a lot of votes going in this morning.

  10. RedLogix 11

    How engineering changes things. Note carefully the graphic at the end showing how Australia is retiring coal power stations in a planned sequence, despite the political shenanigans in Canberra.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-30/snowy-hydro/10683112

  11. Morrissey 12

    This morning neither Kathryn Ryan nor her “Australian correspondent”
    saw fit to mention the hunger strikes across Australia’s prisons. Why not?

    RNZ National, Wednesday 30 January 2019, 9:50 a.m.

    We’ve seen before how Kathryn Ryan lets her (often highly partisan and dodgy) “foreign correspondents” get away with spewing virtually any old nonsense they choose. Probably the most obnoxious is silly old Dame Ann Leslie who never misses a chance to rant in her harsh smoker’s rasp about low-class oiks like teachers, human rights protestors, and Jeremy Corbyn. [1]. Just as bad, though, are the “foreign correspondents” who doggedly avoid mentioning whatever elephant—or more precisely, whatever political prisoner—is in the room. The most contemptible example of this was provided by a waste of airtime called Jack Hitt (“our U.S. correspondent”) who in June 2013, on the very day of the most infamous kangaroo court “trial” of the 21st century, spent his ten minutes wittering about Game of Thrones. [2]

    This morning, one Donna Field somehow neglected to mention the most obvious story coming out of Australia—especially for New Zealanders. Kathryn Ryan didn’t seem interested either. I dropped her the following email…..

    You forgot to ask Donna Field about the hunger strikes

    Dear Kathryn,

    You forgot to ask your “Australian correspondent” Donna Field about the hunger strikes, involving scores of New Zealand prisoners, that are being conducted across Australia.

    Why was that? Is there some sort of agreement not to talk about such an awkward topic?

    Yours sincerely,

    Morrissey Breen
    Northcote Point

    [1] https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/dame-ann-leslie-arrrrgggh.html

    [2] https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/02/bradley-manning-show-trial-begins-in.html

    • Chris 12.1

      And of course the coward as usual didn’t read it out.

      • Morrissey 12.1.1

        She reads them out quite frequently, Chris. Kim Hill nearly always does, and so did Chris Laidlaw.

        The funniest on air read-outs, though, came from the late, great Leighton Smith…..

        “Coming up to, errrrr, twenty minutes to eleven. Just taking a look at the e-mails. M-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-Morrissey. You’re an IDIOT. Let’s just leave it at that. To the phones now….”

        https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2019/01/my-correspondence-with-genius-oct-2-2003.html

        https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/more-correspondence-with-genius-jul-15.html

        • Sacha 12.1.1.1

          Shock as senile codger calls attention-seeking social warrior a dimwit in outrageous display at formerly state-owned broadcaster!! Mother would not have liked it says suburban basement dweller, sucking on hard lolly. *

          Appalling! Read all about it. References about unrelated topics to follow!!

          * Just a standard heading on websites these days, don’t you know. All the best comments sections have them. LOOK AT MOI.

          • Sacha 12.1.1.1.1

            My cat says this is a great piece of investigative journalism. More!

            • Sacha 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Regular commenter Drowsy Dumbass has chimed in on the wireless to say that paying attention (nay, homage) to the aforementioned social warrior is a great idea and that more people should do it.

              Soon everyone will know where to listen. The north shore’s triumph will be complete. WINNING!

              • Morrissey

                Bravo, Sacha! Much more of this and you’ll be co-opted on to the Daisycutter Sports team.

                https://media1.tenor.com/images/2b6138c8abd50d00965e784d948a88df/tenor.gif?itemid=4733491

              • Sacha

                Broken news: Dozycunter Spurts have released their leatest cutting report into socialist patterning of dining plates in the former Yugoslavia. World-changing stuff. Rulers will quake in their fur-lined boots, comrades. Up the workers! REBEL YELL(OW) ..

                fanciful ‘transcript’ to follow

                • Sacha

                  The main thing is knowing when to lend your ears as instructed, confirms our demented local shopping channel reporter Mucous Brim – LOOK AT MOI.

                • Morrissey

                  All good until the “fanciful ‘transcript'” slur.

                  Can you point to any of my transcripts that are “fanciful”? Apart from this one of course…..

                  CHRISTINE RANKIN: Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
                  MORRISSEY BREEN: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Um.
                  JIM MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha! It’s time to find out what our Panelists have been thinking about. Christine Rankin, what’s been on YOUR mind lately?
                  CHRISTINE RANKIN: Well, Jim, look, I’ve been so busy working for the reintroduction of corporal punishment for the under-fives that I haven’t had TIME to do any thinking at all for several years now. I really can’t think of one thing to talk about.
                  JIM MORA: [long, irritated silence] Mmmmm-kay. Morrissey, have YOU got something on your mind?
                  MORRISSEY BREEN: Ummm, ahhhh, I’m going to abandon my, uh, carefully prepared speech about foreign policy, and comment on Christine’s failure to ummm, errr, honour her, ummmm, commitments to your show.
                  CHRISTINE RANKIN: [indignant] I’ve been BUSY.
                  MORRISSEY BREEN: Ummmm, ahhhh, yeah. Ummm…to paraphrase Dr. Johnson, I will say this about Christine: “This woman’s thinking is like a dog’s walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it not done at all.”
                  JIM MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! That’s very funny! I think he’s talking about you Christine!
                  MORRISSEY BREEN: And that’s all I have to say, Jim. Um.
                  JIM MORA: Short and sweet. That’s the way we like them on the Panel! Okay, next up, Lanthanide will tell us why he thinks a nuclear reactor in the middle of Christchurch would be a good idea. First, though, what do the Panelists think of this?
                  RANKIN: [fervently] That’s a SPLENDID idea. At last, somebody talking some sense….
                  https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-victims-rights-advocate-garth.html

                  And of course this one…..

                  https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/12/mr-browns-boys-part-2-of-3-dec-31-2013.html

                • Sacha

                  Another doozy of imagination from our faithful servant of the masses, Merciful Brylcreem. Mild op-shopping pastor by day, fearsome soldier of the socialist underground in the shadows of darkness.

                  His eagle ears spot all the pauses in the conversation from the adjoining crypt while the invaders unveil their nefarious plot to talk in plain language and breathe like real people breathe. They shall respect my every inference about their mental state while discussing matters big and small. Only I can truly detect what drives their [deepest desires] !!, he thunders to a select audience of churchmice. ‘LOOK AT MOI’ they titter to one another, turning away to seek a better variety of cheese.

          • veutoviper 12.1.1.1.2

            Wonderful, Sacha!

            BUT you forgot something which needs to be added to each proclamation –

            DISCLAIMER: This statement shall not be taken in whole or in part, or in any way whatsoever, either now or in the future, as “Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery”* or any of its other wordings, or any other form of compliment, acknowledgement or similar, intentional or unintentional, to Morrissey Breen or any of Morrissey Breen’s other incarnations, acronyms, aliases or identities, real or unreal.

            * Attribution: Charles Caleb Colton

  12. Chris 13

    Arthur Taylor’s being released next month.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/110252560/veteran-criminal-arthur-taylor-plans-to-study-law-after-prison-release

    What a great asset he’d be to any advocacy organisation. His NZBORA wins on the smoking in prisons and prisoners’ right to vote cases were against all odds. Would be good to see him in areas like welfare and ACC. Heaven knows they could do with the help.

  13. Kevin 14

    After the uproar of ‘lazy fucking kiwi’s’ who don’t want to earn ‘huge’ money planting trees, last week. We get a bit of reality check from within the industry:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/110212861/400-a-day-forestry-industry-told-to-improve-pay-to-meet-one-billion-tree-planting-target

    • marty mars 14.1

      Yep – that was stupid their article on earning $400 a day – total bullshit, just designed to vilify workers and create evidence for immigrant haters. Good some decent pushback.

      • greywarshark 14.1.1

        A random search on NZ forestry which is going to bring in lots of money for the owners (many overseas) and cost lots of money and difficulties for those living in and around the green rush. Thanks you neolib freemarket wankers. Enjoy the frottage of rubbing your hands over your lovely money and emblems of capital accretion.

        I just had a look at that link Kevin put up and see that the quote of 60c a tree multiplied by some theoretical number amounts to $400 a day. Then a comment that machinery can’t do the work. Too hard work? Perhaps on steep slopes? The ultimate test would illustrate – could the manager interviewee do it? Hah.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/109810764/400-a-day-to-plant-trees-but-no-one-wants-the-job?rm=a
        Forest Management director David Janett –
        “Planting rates in the North Island were reaching 60 cents a tree, which equated to pay rates of $300 to $400 a day. “And we still can’t get people.”…
        “The greatest impediment is finding the labour to plant the trees. We can mechanise a lot of the work, but we can’t mechanise a person on a spade,” Janett said.
        Tree planting was done in autumn and winter and seasonal workers from the Pacific Islands would need to be recruited….

        Ollie Belton, a partner of Permanent Forests NZ a Christchurch-based carbon consultancy, said ETS rule changes would make permanent forests more attractive by removing the liability risk. Permanent forests could keep earning carbon credits under ETS as long as a forest kept growing and gaining biomass.

        Under existing rules the risk was that as trees aged and blew over, those carbon credits would need to be paid back. Proposed rules removed this liability if the forest was replanted.
        *****

        Not $400 a day – “workers were barely paid minimum wage”.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/110212861/400-a-day-forestry-industry-told-to-improve-pay-to-meet-one-billion-tree-planting-target
        ******

        Forest Management Group- Mr Janett’s entity.
        https://www.forestmanagement.co.nz/about-us/our-people/forestmanagement7/
        *******

        Shane Jones may be able to help regions get more tree planting but there is no mention of the home-grown workers out on the slopes in cold, wet weather for livable pay. And carbon credits won’t be there forever.
        April 2018
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/103379729/pattrick-smellie-our-treeclad-hill-climb-to-carbon-neutrality?rm=a

        …there will come a point when those forests are mature and are no longer soaking up new carbon. Unless we keep planting forever, effectively returning New Zealand to its pre-settlement state of forest cover, forestry is only a stop-gap measure until, perhaps, 2050 or so.
        After that, other carbon reduction technologies will have to take up the slack.
        *******

        Then I had a brief look at the forestry industry. It is mostly managed by a few large companies that are interested in the trees as profit earners and the trend is still to concentrate on pinus radiata, a small percentage in douglas fir and eucalypts. And based on return just looking at the option of native trees instead – they don’t pay as well on current values.

        And other varieties that might be of importance to incorporate for different purposes? Not likely they would be considered, not a good reliable return and profit.

        Are these big companies doing the right thing for people, land and water in their area of operation?

        Pan Pac, Japanese owned, and large employer in Hawkes Bay.
        Enough is enough: Residents want Pan Pac held accountable for leaking pipe
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12193690

        Note that Pan Pac has permission to pollute the sea from a pipe 2.4km out from the coast.
        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/381135/council-investigating-maintenance-records-on-broken-wastewater-pipe
        The pipe from Pan Pac Forest Products was meant to carry wastewater 2.4 kilometres out to sea from its processing plant, but for months it has been leaking brown foamy water onto Whirinaki Beach – in breach of its resource consent.
        After several failed attempts to fix the leak, the company said last week that a temporary fix would be finished by the end of February.
        A longer term solution of replacing an old section of the pipe could cost more than $1 million and a take year to fix. Pan Pac’s chief executive Doug Ducker has flown to Japan to discuss the issue with its owner Oji Green Resources.
        ******

        About Pan Pac:
        Pan Pac is a fully integrated forestry company operating a pulpmill, sawmill, drymill and chipmill from its Whirinaki site in Hawkes Bay and is the largest forest owner and log purchaser in Hawkes Bay.

        With a permanent workforce of over 380 staff (plus 450 contractors to assist in forestry, harvesting and transport), we recognise our people are our most valuable asset and we seek to develop and retain highly skilled staff.
        https://panpacjobs.co.nz/

        MPI Central North Island wood supply area.
        https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/819/loggedIn
        Download doc with very good map.

        Note the dark green area that have been planted since 1989 (small)
        The lime green areas planted prior to 1990 (large)
        The large amount of vivid green area is natural forest.

        NZ Forest Owners Association list.
        https://www.nzfoa.org.nz/resources/links/121-companies

    • Herodotus 14.2

      Isn’t this the standard reporting ? Teachers,Nurses, Doctors etc. Have reported the max. earning and frame it to appear that this max income is the norm ?
      And once the story is out, then the public perception has been formed, and no amount to counter will work, the world’s media run 30 sec sound bites !!
      remember, to win, get your version/opinion out first and you have won the battle !!

      • greywarshark 14.2.1

        A random search on NZ forestry which is going to bring in lots of money for the owners (many overseas) and cost lots of money and difficulties for those living in and around the green rush. Thanks you neolib freemarket wankers. Enjoy the frottage of rubbing your hands over your lovely money and emblems of capital accretion.

        I just had a look at that link Kevin put up and see that the quote of 60c a tree multiplied by some theoretical number amounts to $400 a day. Then a comment that machinery can’t do the work. Too hard work? Perhaps on steep slopes? The ultimate test would illustrate – could the manager interviewee do it? Hah.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/109810764/400-a-day-to-plant-trees-but-no-one-wants-the-job?rm=a
        Forest Management director David Janett –
        “Planting rates in the North Island were reaching 60 cents a tree, which equated to pay rates of $300 to $400 a day. “And we still can’t get people.”…
        “The greatest impediment is finding the labour to plant the trees. We can mechanise a lot of the work, but we can’t mechanise a person on a spade,” Janett said.
        Tree planting was done in autumn and winter and seasonal workers from the Pacific Islands would need to be recruited….

        Ollie Belton, a partner of Permanent Forests NZ a Christchurch-based carbon consultancy, said ETS rule changes would make permanent forests more attractive by removing the liability risk. Permanent forests could keep earning carbon credits under ETS as long as a forest kept growing and gaining biomass.

        Under existing rules the risk was that as trees aged and blew over, those carbon credits would need to be paid back. Proposed rules removed this liability if the forest was replanted.
        *****

        Not $400 a day – “workers were barely paid minimum wage”.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/110212861/400-a-day-forestry-industry-told-to-improve-pay-to-meet-one-billion-tree-planting-target
        ******

        Forest Management Group- Mr Janett’s entity.
        https://www.forestmanagement.co.nz/about-us/our-people/forestmanagement7/
        *******

        Shane Jones may be able to help regions get more tree planting but there is no mention of the home-grown workers out on the slopes in cold, wet weather for livable pay. And carbon credits won’t be there forever.
        April 2018
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/103379729/pattrick-smellie-our-treeclad-hill-climb-to-carbon-neutrality?rm=a

        …there will come a point when those forests are mature and are no longer soaking up new carbon. Unless we keep planting forever, effectively returning New Zealand to its pre-settlement state of forest cover, forestry is only a stop-gap measure until, perhaps, 2050 or so.
        After that, other carbon reduction technologies will have to take up the slack.
        *******

        Then I had a brief look at the forestry industry. It is mostly managed by a few large companies that are interested in the trees as profit earners and the trend is still to concentrate on pinus radiata, a small percentage in douglas fir and eucalypts. And based on return just looking at the option of native trees instead – they don’t pay as well on current values.

        And other varieties that might be of importance to incorporate for different purposes? Not likely they would be considered, not a good reliable return and profit.

        Are these big companies doing the right thing for people, land and water in their area of operation?

        Pan Pac, Japanese owned, and large employer in Hawkes Bay.
        Enough is enough: Residents want Pan Pac held accountable for leaking pipe
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12193690

        Note that Pan Pac has permission to pollute the sea from a pipe 2.4km out from the coast.
        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/381135/council-investigating-maintenance-records-on-broken-wastewater-pipe
        The pipe from Pan Pac Forest Products was meant to carry wastewater 2.4 kilometres out to sea from its processing plant, but for months it has been leaking brown foamy water onto Whirinaki Beach – in breach of its resource consent.
        After several failed attempts to fix the leak, the company said last week that a temporary fix would be finished by the end of February.
        A longer term solution of replacing an old section of the pipe could cost more than $1 million and a take year to fix. Pan Pac’s chief executive Doug Ducker has flown to Japan to discuss the issue with its owner Oji Green Resources.

        ******

        About Pan Pac:
        Pan Pac is a fully integrated forestry company operating a pulpmill, sawmill, drymill and chipmill from its Whirinaki site in Hawkes Bay and is the largest forest owner and log purchaser in Hawkes Bay.

        With a permanent workforce of over 380 staff (plus 450 contractors to assist in forestry, harvesting and transport), we recognise our people are our most valuable asset and we seek to develop and retain highly skilled staff.
        https://panpacjobs.co.nz/

        MPI Central North Island wood supply area.
        https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/819/loggedIn
        Download doc with very good map.

        Note the dark green area that have been planted since 1989 (small)
        The lime green areas planted prior to 1990 (large)
        The large amount of vivid green area is natural forest.

        https://www.forestenterprises.co.nz/about-us/our-forest-locations/

        June 2018
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=12078662
        Insight: Forests still five years from peaking
        …Even with the restored Wairoa-Napier rail service due back on line next year, there will still be thousands of additional logging trucks needed.

        Forest Enterprises, which manages 1289 hectares of investment forests in Hawke’s Bay, intends to harvest a total of 1 million tonnes from its Hawke’s Bay forests – a process that is still some years from really starting…

        Hughes said, unless demand from local sawmills grew, the company expected half its volume would be exported.
        It also expected to extend its relationship with Pan Pac in Hawke’s Bay.
        “We are also a long-term committed supplier to Kiwi Lumber. Their Dannevirke sawmill is currently served from our Wairarapa estate.”

        Very large forest management enterprise largely in Gisborne.
        Forest Enterprises and Logic Forest Solutions co-operate.
        https://www.forestenterprises.co.nz/forest-enterprises-expands-gisborne-branch-2/

        Tolaga Bay flood aftermath
        December 2018
        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/377244/owners-of-east-coast-forests-charged-over-debris-damage

        Malaysian Tolaga Bay forest ownership questioned.
        September 2018
        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/366868/tolaga-bay-forestry-company-s-illegal-logging-history-revealed
        The Malaysian owner of a forestry company blamed for tonnes of debris washing up in Tolaga Bay has been fined twice for illegal logging overseas, but it took the Overseas Investment Office nine years to realise.
        The penalty could have affected Samling Group’s Hikurangi Forest Farm’s good character status, but the OIO decided it was too late to take any action.

        Separately, a Malaysian billionaire who owns another Tolaga Bay forestry company was granted 24 consents to buy sensitive land between 2005 and 2017, even though another of his companies has faced accusations of environmental and human rights abuses overseas since 2004.

        A critical opinion piece in The Gisborne Herald from Ian Graham
        http://gisborneherald.co.nz/opinion/3817404-135/forestry-imposes-too-many-costs-on
        December 2018
        Forestry imposes too many costs on us
        Referring to employment and other promised benefits from new-style forestry.
        … the espoused employment opportunities, conveniently forgetting lost jobs, income and communities of those there before the incentivised foreign-owned forest companies arrived and took over the landscape. A profoundly negative industry. …

        …smooth-talking MP Shane Jones (who was less than complimentary about forestry when campaigning at the last election) rocks into town to announce that the East Coast would be the first recipient of a billion-tree plant: this as we had just come through the winter of discontent, with our roads reduced to the worst in the country because of logging trucks. Unbelievable timing.
        This region has shown that it just cannot cope with 20 percent of its area in pines, let alone further plantings.

        NZ Forest Owners Association list.
        https://www.nzfoa.org.nz/resources/links/121-companies

        • WeTheBleeple 14.2.1.1

          Billion trees. Great idea but poor execution?

          Are there percentages we can look at for these trees as natives or being used in regenerating bush? Or is it just a billion tree increase in mono-culture forestry taking over hill country?

          Sheep are well out of fashion I’ve heard in reputable Ponsonby bars. But pines… not very creative these lads.

          I’m thinking the size of the project warrants both bush reclamation and forestry. The time frame… this is one project that could have done with some serious consultation having foresters, govt, private landholders, economists, ecologists and Iwi at the table.

          Climate change is of course urgent… was it a rock and a hard place? The brevity of election cycles and shrillness of media forcing action at all cost? Did a necessity for co-opting industry show governments hand too soon, so a pack of extractors couldn’t help themselves but sign up for the cash bonus to extend BAU?

          Is it that people who once lived on the land are now all in the cities and they don’t own or even have people who own or have real connections to the land anymore? While those who now ‘own the land’ demand a return on their ‘investment’ in that land? But they have far too much land to be sensible for so few so they need monoculture and machinery to force profit from the land and even those filthy awful workers.

          You know, as large farms pushed out small, as chemical fert contractors laid waste to traditional gardeners in the markets, as chain stores took out Mom n Pop, in every town. As they spun their PR of their status as employers, movers and shakers, benevolent, charitable.

          The rat race.

          Big ate small. Till there’s only pillocks to rule them all.

          Now we hope for some kind of sensible strategy and cooperation in the face of looming disaster. Will industry do the right thing?

          Yeah, right.

          We can hope.

          Best to get on with it and plant your own forest too. And grow a garden the benefits are myriad.

          Folk can do it for free, and still make something beautiful, check this clever ladies work

  14. recently we have run a series of articles by (now retired) veteran shopfloor trade union activist Don Franks on unions past and present plus an article on the Resident Doctors strike.

    Peggy Stewart on the RDA strike actions: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/01/17/why-resident-doctors-are-striking/

    Don Franks on Organising on the Job – the little purple hat: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/01/24/organising-on-the-job-the-little-purple-hat/

    Reclaiming the best of the past: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/01/20/unions-reclaiming-the-best-of-our-past/

    Unions need “much larger systematic change”: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/01/08/unions-need-much-larger-systematic-change/

    Three suggestions for the NZ Council of Trade Unions: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/01/04/three-suggestions-for-the-nz-council-of-trade-union/

    An important campaign in efence of women’s rights has also been launched in relation to gender self-ID: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/01/17/speak-up-for-women-launches-campaign/

    Please share the urls for these articles with anyone you think might be interested. And please think about posting something in the Comments section of any of these articles.

  15. mary_a 16

    Sarah Dowie is the daughter of two police officers! It’s common knowledge.

    • Cinny 16.1

      Meanwhile blue cheerleader sean plunket is currently instigating a gossip session on the wireless re dowie and jlr.

      Next years election will be interesting, especially for Southland and Botany.

    • Gabby 16.2

      I’m taking odds on ‘insufficient evidence’.

  16. greywarshark 17

    I have a piece on forestry that is not showing up. It clicked that I had put more than 10 links in which puts the comment into moderation. So have cut it in two.

    This bit is mainly about Gisborne and North Is East Coast.

    https://www.forestenterprises.co.nz/about-us/our-forest-locations/

    June 2018
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=12078662
    Insight: Forests still five years from peaking
    …Even with the restored Wairoa-Napier rail service due back on line next year, there will still be thousands of additional logging trucks needed.

    Forest Enterprises, which manages 1289 hectares of investment forests in Hawke’s Bay, intends to harvest a total of 1 million tonnes from its Hawke’s Bay forests – a process that is still some years from really starting…

    Hughes said, unless demand from local sawmills grew, the company expected half its volume would be exported.
    It also expected to extend its relationship with Pan Pac in Hawke’s Bay.
    “We are also a long-term committed supplier to Kiwi Lumber. Their Dannevirke sawmill is currently served from our Wairarapa estate.”

    Very large forest management enterprise largely in Gisborne.
    Forest Enterprises and Logic Forest Solutions co-operate.
    https://www.forestenterprises.co.nz/forest-enterprises-expands-gisborne-branch-2/

    Tolaga Bay flood aftermath
    December 2018
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/377244/owners-of-east-coast-forests-charged-over-debris-damage

    Malaysian Tolaga Bay forest ownership questioned.
    September 2018
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/366868/tolaga-bay-forestry-company-s-illegal-logging-history-revealed
    The Malaysian owner of a forestry company blamed for tonnes of debris washing up in Tolaga Bay has been fined twice for illegal logging overseas, but it took the Overseas Investment Office nine years to realise.
    The penalty could have affected Samling Group’s Hikurangi Forest Farm’s good character status, but the OIO decided it was too late to take any action.

    Separately, a Malaysian billionaire who owns another Tolaga Bay forestry company was granted 24 consents to buy sensitive land between 2005 and 2017, even though another of his companies has faced accusations of environmental and human rights abuses overseas since 2004.

    A critical opinion piece in The Gisborne Herald from Ian Graham
    http://gisborneherald.co.nz/opinion/3817404-135/forestry-imposes-too-many-costs-on
    December 2018
    Forestry imposes too many costs on us
    Referring to employment and other promised benefits from new-style forestry.
    … the espoused employment opportunities, conveniently forgetting lost jobs, income and communities of those there before the incentivised foreign-owned forest companies arrived and took over the landscape. A profoundly negative industry. …

    …smooth-talking MP Shane Jones (who was less than complimentary about forestry when campaigning at the last election) rocks into town to announce that the East Coast would be the first recipient of a billion-tree plant: this as we had just come through the winter of discontent, with our roads reduced to the worst in the country because of logging trucks. Unbelievable timing.
    This region has shown that it just cannot cope with 20 percent of its area in pines, let alone further plantings.

  17. Jenny - How to get there? 18

    Talleys a New Zealand synonym for greed, bullying and environmental abuse. Opening new coal mines in the Waikato. Victimising unionists in Afco and now plundering a marine reserve.

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/381302/talley-s-accused-of-illegal-trawling-in-protected-tasman-sea-area

  18. Eco Maori 19

    Kia ora The AM Show when I see a good idea I run with it I.E Kiwi Build ECO Maori champions prefab built houses and the government chose /were conned by old men who are my nemesis not to run with it now they got WAI spraying in their faces on the subject. They just have to set up a factory by a railway line to minimise fright cost invest in the technology from Europe and house will be roll into the subregions one doesn’t have to invent the WHEEL to solve Aotearoa problems just go over seas and see what our Cousin have done to solve that problem WE have a the minute P.S those adviceser are national party supporters and they love to give national tools to hit the coalition government on the head with. Yes its a no brainer (CAP RENTS.)
    Internet security is A consern one can tell when someone is snooping live your battery goes flat fast as and your data use spikes Don’t worry about it to much people the authorities are spying on us all the time it’s called control of the population treat anything you put up uses on the Web as open sources IE any good coder can access it. Not just AirNZ shares are going down most are being played by trump his administration makes moves cause them to worry and walar down goes the share prices opportunity for his m8 to buy low and sell high.
    No mark new names for neoliberals capitalist neanderthal is it dumb pricks who can’t see logic through their $$$$$$$$$ or their tamariki futures.
    Well duncan the people you wave your little blue flag for are the ones who attacted free education and pushed private school to be the main stay schools that only wealthy tamariki could afford to attend.
    ITS EASY TO CON A UNEDUCATED PERSON THAN A EDUCATION PERSON. That’s the reason why free education was taken away from KIWIS. Amanda I seen yesterday that a Pola Vortex is hitting the Midwest of America neanderthal will say that phenomenon = no climate change but reality is that phenomenon is caused by climate change = EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS.
    duncan your online name should be neanderthal LOL. Neanderthals you think it’s better that management is getting more money than they can spend and there task is just signing bits of paper meanwhile the people who actually make the money the shop staff don’t get guaranteed hours and piss poor Pay Eco Maori sees that that system is what causes a lot of the ILLS of this country the people makeing the money shop staff people on the ground doing the work are struggling NEXT MINUTE THEY VOTE FOR A FOOL TO run the country into the DIRT. Like what has happened to our country in the last decade. There you go duncan your statement to the person who won the $10.000 online site prize has just confirmed that Eco Maori discription of you as correct. Ka kite ano P.S Mike everyone knows who has the monopoly on house building products in Aotearoa it one of the biggest companies in Aotearoa

  19. Eco Maori 20

    Neanderthal you try living on the minamim wage the business in Aotearoa have been spoilt by a business first government and have lost the incentive to research productivity gains no need when LABOUR is as cheap as Chips Ana to kai Ka kite ano

  20. Eco Maori 21

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  21. Eco Maori 22

    Some people should think of what the sandflys are DOING TO MY WHANO

  22. Eco Maori 23

    The people that are attacking the WTO World Trade Organisation only want them gone so there M8 can ripp other small busness off that,s the big picture stay strong together UN WTO NATO all the GOOD Organisation,s don.t let trump and his puppets win he will lose all his power in 2020 the odds are looking very good for that phenomen to HAPPEN
    NZ agriculture groups urge WTO rescue at global forums
    Seven major agricultural organisations are urging the government to use forums like the meeting of global trade and business leaders in Davos, Switzerland, to try to rescue the World Trade Organisation (WTO).
    However, the seven bodies – the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand, the Meat Industry Association, Beef + Lamb New Zealand, Horticulture New Zealand, the Horticulture Export Authority, SeafoodNZ and New Zealand Wine Growers – said the government should also rescue the WTO.
    Covering almost the entire primary sector, the agricultural group said the appeals process of the WTO could collapse this year due to insufficient judges, which would deprive small countries like New Zealand of important protections against bigger countries that might bend the rules of world trade.
    Read more about this problem in an Opinion by former NZ trade negotiator Charles Finny
    Dairy Companies Association chair Malcolm Bailey said if the problem of appointing judges was not resolved this year, the disputes settlement process would cease to function, rendering the rules New Zealand depended on unenforceable.
    The meeting at Davos was a golden opportunity to push this message, he said.
    “The US is holding up the appointment of new appellate judges, because of their desire to see reform of a number of things at the WTO,” Mr Bailey said. Ka kite ano links below. P.S these huge multy national companys will reak havoc on smaller economys and cause hard ship to billions if these Organisation,s are aloud to fold thats a fact

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/380764/nz-agriculture-groups-urge-wto-rescue-at-global-forums

  23. Eco Maori 24

    THE ION AGE IS HERE and now the advance of OUR technlogy will be sped up a hundred fold with these new program,s and SUPER COMPUTERS and printer Manufacturing products

  24. Eco Maori 25

    This is what happens when a country lets big business lobby / bribe local and central goverments the wild life’s welbeing in left to die in favour big business and this kind of behavour has to be stopped in its tracks
    Photos reveal Queensland cotton farms full of water while Darling River runs dry
    Over the border in NSW, the Barwon and Darling rivers are a series of muddy pools, and fish are dying These photos were taken by the Centre Alliance senator Rex Patrick from a light plane over southern Queensland near Goondiwindi, on Wednesday.
    They show rivers such as the Condamine relatively full, and storages on cotton farms holding thousands of megalitres of water.
    Yet three hours away in north-west New South Wales, the Barwon and Darling rivers are a series of muddy pools.

    Darling River crisis: the farms without safe drinking or washing water
    Read more

    Fish are dying in their hundreds of thousands at Menindee and people living in towns and on properties along the Barwon-Darling are battling to secure water fit to drink, bath in and feed their stock. On Thursday the South Australian royal commission into the Murray Darling Basin plan is expected to deliver a scathing assessment of the plan that was meant to save the river system from ecological disaster.
    The commissioner, Bret Walker SC, is expected to say that the $13bn plan is in breach of the Water Act 2007 because it was a political compromise that took into account factors other than the needs of the environment when setting the targets for recovering water from irrigators.
    From the air, if anyone is making the claim that there is no water in Queensland, they are misinformed
    Rex Patrick
    He is also expected to provide a savage assessment of how the plan has been administered by state and federal bureaucrats, and to strongly criticise recent amendments that further weakened the environmental targets in the plan.
    The drought has undoubtedly played a part in the unfolding crisis in NSW. But Patrick’s photos show there is still water in the system: water that is allocated to irrigators and which will be used to finish cotton and other irrigated crops.
    Advertisement

    “From the air, if anyone is making the claim that there is no water in Queensland, they are misinformed,” said Patrick.
    “When we left Dubbo, there was 1,165ML of flow. Three hours north [where the river joins the Barwon-Darling system], there were no flows between irrigated farms. The NSW situation is that water is being released but only for irrigators.”
    “Further north in Queensland the Condamine River is relatively full, then south of a big irrigated property there is just a patchy river,” he said. In a letter she received on Wednesday, the Department of Agriculture and Water Resources said the Murray Darling Basin Authority was still searching for documents. It said it found no relevant documents in the department.
    “While fish continue to die in their thousands in the lower Darling, the minister is in contempt of the Senate by refusing to release the requested documents,” Hanson-Young said.
    “I requested these documents in November because I was deeply concerned about why these decisions were made. In the months following we’ve seen more than a million fish die across three mass fish kills and an environment in complete collapse.
    “This stinks of a cover-up. What is the government hiding? Who is the minister protecting? It is clear the Liberal National parties cannot be trusted to act in the interest of river communities or manage the basin without kowtowing to the vested interests of corporate irrigators and their political donors,” she said. Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jan/31/photos-reveal-queensland-cotton-farms-full-of-water-while-darling-river-runs-dry

  25. Eco Maori 26

    Should have seen the games the sandflys were playing today whano well at least everyone will know they are ROTTEN.

  26. Eco maori 27

    It’s good to see that huge companies are being held accountable for putting profits before people’s safety Ana to ka I
    US Judge berated Pacific Gas & Electric Co, accusing the United States’ largest utility of enriching shareholders instead of clearing trees that can fall on its power lines and start fires and making “excuses” to avoid turning off electricity when fire risk is high.

    Judge William Alsup in San Francisco did not immediately order PG&E to take any of the dramatic measures he has proposed to try to stop more wildfires.

    But he warned that he was not ruling out at least some new requirements on the company if it did not come up with a plan to “solve” the problem of catastrophic wildfires in California.

    “To my mind, there’s a very clear-cut pattern here: that PG&E is starting these fires,” Alsup said. “What do we do? Does the judge just turn a blind eye and say, ‘PG&E
    Advertise with Stuff
    He proposed earlier this month as part of PG&E’s probation that it remove or trim all trees that could fall onto its power lines in high-wind conditions and shut off power when fire is a risk regardless of the inconvenience to customers or loss of profit. Alsup said his goal was to prevent PG&E equipment from causing any wildfires during the 2019 fire season.

    PG&E shot back in a court filing last week that the judge’s proposals would endanger lives and could cost as much as US$150 billion (NZ$217 billion) to implement.

    Kevin Orsini, an attorney for the company, said PG&E shared the judge’s concerns about wildfire and was working to reduce risk. But there weren’t enough qualified tree trimmers, and shutting off power would have “repercussions that affect the community,” he said.

    Power cutoffs impact first responders, critical medical care and phone service and are potentially fatal, the utility said in its court filing.

    “PG&E is facing a fundamental problem. The state is facing a fundamental problem your business as usual. Kill more people by starting more fires
    Advertise with Stuff
    He proposed earlier this month as part of PG&E’s probation that it remove or trim all trees that could fall onto its power lines in high-wind conditions and shut off power when fire is a risk regardless of the inconvenience to customers or loss of profit. Alsup said his goal was to prevent PG&E equipment from causing any wildfires during the 2019 fire season.

    PG&E shot back in a court filing last week that the judge’s proposals would endanger lives and could cost as much as US$150 billion (NZ$217 billion) to implement.

    Kevin Orsini, an attorney for the company, said PG&E shared the judge’s concerns about wildfire and was working to reduce risk. But there weren’t enough qualified tree trimmers, and shutting off power would have “repercussions that affect the community,” he said.

    Power cutoffs impact first responders, critical medical care and phone service and are potentially fatal, the utility said in its court filing.

    “PG&E is facing a fundamental problem. The state is facing a fundamental problem
    Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/110285302/pge-is-starting-these-fires-judge-accuses-us-firm-of-putting-profits-over-peoples-lives

  27. Eco Maori 28

    Kia ora Newshub those people were hussler,s its not very good behaviour praying on the elderly. It’s a heat wave all right damageing the fruit on the tree s Samantha.
    I seen a story that I agree with that Maori are 1.5 times more likely to die of cancer than non Maori also the discrimination of Maori in the sector IE Maori will be treated a month or two later than non Maori. Ka pai Jim Bolger that is what is need to protect the lowest class’s of workers from being ripped by big businesses as one gets longer in the tooth one become more humane. When I first started on wages I did not get paid my holiday pay I say that the boss would have banked that in his account had know gidence at all I was on a share of the fishing catch before that.
    YEA finally we are planning to mitigate the effects of climate change it’s not to late the report on the billions that climate changes will cost Aotearoa because of sea level rising. The scientists predicted this but it is looking likely there priditions are on the low side one can see that phenomenon is caused because of the Deniers / neanderthals making the scientists give the low facts because they were insecure.
    Drones are saving a lot of industries a lot of money power line inspection they are good for movie and film making.
    That’s the way Winston railway for North land it will be cool to get rail in Te tairawhiti going again we have some of the best scenery in the world on the Te tairawhiti railway line I know I use to ride the rail when the teeth were short.
    Ka kite ano P.S climate change is a powerful popular TOPIC now Ka pai

  28. Eco Maori 29

    Here you go people The Sea level is rising faster than our scientist have pridicted alot of people are in harms way because the neanderthals blocking the truth from rising to reality
    Gigantic hole two-thirds the size of Manhattan discovered in Antarctic glacier
    CNN)A massive cavity two-thirds the size of Manhattan has been discovered growing in an Antarctic glacier, signaling rapid ice decay that has shocked scientists.
    The huge hole — measuring almost 1,000 feet (300 meters) tall — was found growing at an “explosive rate” at the bottom of a glacier in West Antarctica, said NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in a statement Wednesday.
    The Thwaites Glacier is around the size of Florida, and the team of NASA-led scientists researching it had expected to find “some gaps” between the ice and bedrock.
    The size and explosive growth rate of the newfound hole, however, surprised them,” they said.
    The cavity was “big enough to have contained 14 billion tons of ice, and most of that ice melted over the last three years,” they added.
    By observing the undersides of Antarctic glaciers, researchers hope to calculate how fast global sea levels will rise in response to climate change.
    The Thwaites Glacier is one of the hardest places to reach on Earth, and there’s no way to monitor Antarctic glaciers from ground level over the long term, said scientists.
    Instead, the team used airborne and satellite ice-penetrating radars to reveal the cavity.

    Antarctica ice melt has accelerated by 280% in thes
    “We have suspected for years that Thwaites was not tightly attached to the bedrockt, Ka kite ano links below P.S I loveputtinguphttps://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/31/health/antarctic-glacier-cavity-nasa-intl/index.html

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/31/health/antarctic-glacier-cavity-nasa-intl/index.html

  29. Eco Maori 30

    Kia ora Newshub Tallies is blaming the MAF observer on the boat Amatil explore for there problems that’s a move big businesses make Eco Maori backs Green Peace they do a awesome job protecting OUR wild life and fauna and environment. It would be nice to have a free health system but I say that dental service should be subsidise the amount of people I see with bad teeth in the lower classes is not funny.
    I gave the AM Show a education on the polar vortex this morning. Does the bus company have a Roster it’s so laugh able that a bus service in Tauranga is so incompetent to proved a public service that can leave school children stranded all in the goal of putting money saving ahead of providing people a good service.
    Its good to see a business man to offer students a cheap whare
    Teha the Kiwi is a girl that’s good information to educated the tamariki about kiwis chicks needing DNA test to determine their sex.
    I know what it’s about minster Ana to kai.The council is Not doing everything they can to protect Tanemahuta they are still let people into the forest and they still don’t no if the spreading of the Kauri die back desase has stopped spreading money over nature once again.
    Ka kite ano

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