Raging at Metiria is not about the fraud – it’s that she sided with the lepers
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- Date published:
7:01 am, July 27th, 2017 - 324 comments
Categories: activism, benefits, class war, election 2017, greens, Maori Issues, Metiria Turei, racism, welfare -
Tags: #ChangeTheGovt, #greenthegovt, #IamMetiria, Graham Cameron
Cross-posted from Graham Cameron at First We Take Manhattan.
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In case you missed it, at the Greens annual conference in mid-July, Metiria fronted the launch of an impressive welfare policy, Mending the Safety Net. During that launch, she used an anecdote from 25 years ago to personalise the policy; when she was solo mum she didn’t tell Work and Income that she had flatmates so that she could retain the accommodation supplement.
It was a calculated risk, a chance to capture the news cycle, and if the last two weeks are anything to go by, it paid dividends. Every day there has been hand wringing and righteous anger from National and their proxies, sympathy from the Greens’ friends and the hashtags #IamMetiria and latterly #LeftwithEnough were an offensive defense of Metiria that dominated social media.
The attacks have been inevitably led by white and wealthy men who have stated that it is the crime of benefit fraud and should be prosecuted forthwith. It’s been a pile-on really: Barry Soper‘s written a self-congratulatory series of masturbatory metaphors; Martin Van Beynen claimed to not want to judge but then did; John Armstrong writes like he is the id of the Baby Boomers generation. The coverage has been overwhelmingly critical, not because of the crime, but because Metiria’s attitude is an attack on the comfortable narrative of the past quarter of a century.
The ideological narrative that was deliberately manufactured, particularly in the nineties, was that people who required a benefit of any description from the welfare state were flawed people. They had failed. They had not seized the readily apparent opportunities to make a positive economic contribution to our society and were therefore enemies to growth and productivity, and as such, enemies of ‘good’ New Zealanders. Beneficiaries are our modern day lepers: unclean, dangerous and infectious.
Whilst manufactured initially by a the second term Labour government and then Bolger’s National government, the narrative was quickly adopted by New Zealanders because it fits comfortably with our racist and sexist narratives: many beneficiaries were Māori, a violent and failed race who had consistently threatened New Zealand society; some beneficiaries were Pacific peoples, outsiders who stood at the barricades of white New Zealand trying to seize our riches and opportunities; many beneficiaries were single women, the promiscuous detritus of feminism that was a threat to the proper New Zealand family. If you need any further convincing, it’s telling how superannuation is not treated as a benefit in this regards, as the predominantly Pākehā elderly population don’t fit into the former narratives.
These narratives allowed governments to transform the welfare state. I know a few old social workers from the sixties and seventies. They are very clear that they understood their role was to provide an average standard of living so that families and people on a benefit had enough left over to engage in their local community and society. By the nineties and through to today, the welfare system became a system of punishment. We have condoned reforms that punish beneficiaries by decreasing benefit levels in real terms, reducing their potential for autonomy in spending decisions, and increasing funding to surveil and prosecute people on a benefit for infractions.
Just as lepers were a threat, now people who are on the benefit are a threat. Just as lepers must be excluded and controlled, so too we must control and exclude people on a benefit.
Metiria has unmasked this narrative. She has provided an alternative narrative: the lepers are the same as us. People on a benefit are caring and loving parents, children and grandparents who are oppressed by a system that is so punitive that survival often requires them to act in a dishonest manner; and the agencies of that system are unable to meet the real needs of those people because they are purposely designed to act as a barrier to support.
The reaction has not been because this is the first time that somehow has pointed to these alternative narratives. No, it has been because Metiria Turei, as co-leader of the Greens, has a real chance of being in a Labour/Greens Executive at the conclusion of the next election, and has expressed a desire to be the Minister for Social Development. In other words, she has the potential to have the tools to transform the status quo. So, as they have always done when faced with change, the defenders of the status quo are rallying to the cause with hate vitriol.
Meanwhile, Metiria is asking us to care again for each other. To have compassion for our neighbour and our whānau. To see ourselves in the other. To embrace the leper. Stacey Kirk described it succinctly:
“She’s effectively drawing an ideological line in the sand and asking New Zealanders: “Which side are you on?””
Each of us needs to ask ourselves that question in the coming election and vote accordingly. If you are going to vote for the status quo, for individualism, for gated communities of the like minded, for the current power arrangements, for the current economic system, for you retaining much whilst many have little, I have a warning for you. If we will not change to a path of generosity, then look to the recent Bastille Day celebrations and remember: a day of reckoning is coming, when all of your walls will fall and the many will take what the few have greedily hoarded.
[The image is an icon The Healing of the Ten Lepers]
324 comments on “Raging at Metiria is not about the fraud – it’s that she sided with the lepers ”
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- Ferris – Three Strikes targets those ‘too brown to be white’The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...4 days ago
- Release: Govt cuts doctors and nurses in hiring freezeCuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...7 days ago
- Fast-track submissions period must be extendedThe Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...1 week ago
- Release: Progress on climate will be undone by GovtNew Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...1 week ago
- Release: Dark day for Kiwi kids as a third of Govt cuts affect themNews that 1000 jobs at the Ministry of Education and Oranga Tamariki could go is devastating for future generations of New Zealanders. ...1 week ago
- Release: Alarm as Government signals further blow to school lunchesMore essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...1 week ago
- Oranga Tamariki cuts commit tamariki to state abuseTe Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...1 week ago
- Release: Quick, submit – stop Govt’s dodgy approvals billThe Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...1 week ago
- Government throws coal on the climate crisis fireThe Government’s policy announced today to ease consenting for coal mining will have a lasting impact across generations. ...1 week ago
- Release: Public transport costs to double as National looks at unaffordable roading project insteadCancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Cost of living in Auckland still not a priorityA laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...2 weeks ago
- Te Pāti Māori to visit Queensland to strengthen ties with Māori in AustraliaTe Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...2 weeks ago
- Greens look to fast-track submissions on harmful lawThe Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Govt should stop making people’s lives harder and build more homesThe National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Melissa Lee missing in action on mediaThe action Melissa Lee promised to protect democracy and the media sector is missing, Media and Communications spokesperson Willie Jackson said. ...2 weeks ago
- Landlord Government leaves little hope for rentersThe Government’s announcement on tenancy rules prove that it does not care about renters. ...2 weeks ago
- Opportunity to build a more sustainable economyGreen Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...2 weeks ago
- Significant step forward in fixing cruel and unjust pastA significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...2 weeks ago
- Missed opportunity but NZ will surely one day recognise the right to a sustainable environmentNew Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Don’t cut our lunches – clear message sent to GovernmentTens of thousands of people are demanding the Government commits to fully funding free and healthy school lunches. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Govt makes U-turn on Suicide Prevention OfficeLabour welcomes the Government’s U-turn on the closure of the Suicide Prevention Office, says Labour Mental Health spokesperson Ingrid Leary. ...2 weeks ago
- CCC issues warning over further climate delayToday’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...3 weeks ago
- Luxon targets lame and lousy example of leadershipIf talk is cheap, Chris Luxon’s “targets” are bankrupt. ...3 weeks ago
- Luxon targets are lousy example of leadershipIf talk is cheap, Chris Luxon’s “targets” are bankrupt. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: Commitment to disability communities missing from Govt prioritiesMinister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...3 weeks ago
- Anzac Commemorative Address, Buttes New British Cemetery Belgium
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...3 hours ago - Anzac Commemorative Address – NZ National Service, Chunuk BairDistinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...22 hours ago
- Anzac Commemorative Address – Dawn Service, Gallipoli, TürkiyeMai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...1 day ago
- PM announces changes to portfoliosPaul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...2 days ago
- New catch limits for unique fishery areasRecreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...2 days ago
- Minister welcomes hydrogen milestoneEnergy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...3 days ago
- Urgent changes to system through first RMA Amendment BillThe coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...3 days ago
- Overseas decommissioning models consideredOverseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...3 days ago
- Release of North Island Severe Weather Event InquiryEmergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...3 days ago
- Justice Minister to attend Human Rights CouncilJustice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...4 days ago
- Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facilityAssociate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...4 days ago
- Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...4 days ago
- Government to introduce revised Three Strikes lawThe Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...4 days ago
- New diplomatic appointmentsForeign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...4 days ago
- Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and SomaliaNew Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...4 days ago
- Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho CollectiveMinister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...5 days ago
- Supporting better financial outcomes for KiwisThe Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...5 days ago
- Trade relationship with China remains strong“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...5 days ago
- PM’s South East Asia mission does the businessPrime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...6 days ago
- $41m to support clean energy in South East AsiaNew Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...1 week ago
- Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder listThe Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...1 week ago
- Judicial appointments announcedAttorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...1 week ago
- Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in SingaporeEducation Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...1 week ago
- Value of stopbank project proven during cycloneA stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...1 week ago
- Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visitForeign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...1 week ago
- Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac DayScience, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...1 week ago
- Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the PhilippinesPrime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...1 week ago
- Government commits $20m to Westport flood protectionThe Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...1 week ago
- Taupō takes pole positionThe Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...1 week ago
- Cost of living support for low-income homeownersLocal Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...1 week ago
- Government backing mussel spat projectThe Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...1 week ago
- Government focused on getting people into workBenefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...1 week ago
- Clean energy key driver to reducing emissionsThe Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...1 week ago
- Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forwardThe Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...1 week ago
- Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic PartnershipPrime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...1 week ago
- Government consults on extending coastal permits for portsRMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...1 week ago
- Inflation coming down, but more work to doToday’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...1 week ago
- School attendance restored as a priority in health adviceRefreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...1 week ago
- Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sectorOceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...1 week ago
- Opinion: It’s time for an arts and creative sector strategyI was initially resistant to the idea often suggested to me that the Government should deliver an arts strategy. The whole point of the arts and creativity is that people should do whatever the hell they want, unbound by the dictates of politicians in Wellington. Peter Jackson, Kiri Te Kanawa, Eleanor ...1 week ago
- Does fighting inflation always lead to recession? What NZ data tells
Here is what 60 years of New Zealand data shows us. ...1 hour ago - The government's 20 trips abroad in AprilThe government appears committed to overseas visits with 14 ministers and MPs in 18 countries this month. ...2 hours ago
- Government unveils fetal alcohol guidelines, plan for diagnosis trainingThe government is promising to step up the response to Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder, promising to boost diagnoses and raise awareness. ...3 hours ago
- Labor facing heavy defeat in Queensland, but faring better in federal polls
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Queensland state election will be held in October. A YouGov poll for The Courier Mail, conducted April 9–17 from a sample ...3 hours ago - Why the potential for another Donald Trump presidency is making Iran very nervousSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Naeni, PhD candidate at Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University There’s been much talk in recent months about what a possible second Donald Trump presidency in the United States could mean for Europe, Russia’s war in Ukraine, the ...3 hours ago
- ‘The worst piece of law proposed since 1979’: Reactions to the Fast-track Approvals Bill
A brief round-up of submissions on the controversial proposed law. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week, submissions on the controversial Fast-track Approvals Bill closed just hours after the government released a list of stakeholder organisations who were sent letters advising how they could ...4 hours ago - The Friday Poem: ‘Cereal giving’ by Robin PeaceA poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...4 hours ago
- The Unity Books bestseller chart for the week ending April 26The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington. AUCKLAND 1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38) A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...4 hours ago
- Te Rūnanga O Ngāti Whātua Welcomes Commissioner's Decision Regarding Awataha Marae
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...5 hours ago - We reconstructed landscapes that greeted the first humans in Australia around 65,000 years agoSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes. Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...6 hours ago
- What do we lose when our old suburbs disappear?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, Parramatta Photo: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...6 hours ago
- Does fighting inflation always lead to recession? What 60 years of NZ data can tell usSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImages fatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...6 hours ago
- After spending $700,000 on pins for Covid-19 workers, department now cutting costsA government office that set aside millions for lapel pins for pandemic workers is now looking to cut back on spending. ...6 hours ago
- ‘A hell of a lot of fun’: Our reviews of Chris Isaak’s dazzling Auckland showThe ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...6 hours ago
- The Week in Politics: Days of drama and demotionsAnalysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...7 hours ago
- Hear me out: All I want is a TrueBliss T-shirtTara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...8 hours ago
- Solemn ANZAC dawn service at PNG’s Isurava battle memorialPNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...8 hours ago
- Political editors panel: A reshuffle and the fast trackListen - RNZ's Jo Moir and NZ Herald's Claire Trevett dissect the demotion of two ministers and the PM's response on Morning Report. ...9 hours ago
- After-hours clinics on verge of collapse in some regionsOverworked GPs have signalled they can no longer cover, while funding is falling short. ...9 hours ago
- Oranga Tamariki Axes Specialist Māori Roles, Weakens Commitment To Te Ao MāoriThe PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...9 hours ago
- China’s money only goes so far – Kokoda shows why history binds PNG and Australia in a far deepe...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...9 hours ago
- We spoke to young people about sexual consent. They understand the concept, but don’t always ask i...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrea Waling, ARC DECRA Senior Research Fellow in Sex & Sexuality, La Trobe University BAZA Production/Shutterstock Sexual consent has been a major focus in Australia for the past few years. In early 2022 the federal government mandated consent education in ...9 hours ago
- Longer-lasting ozone holes over Antarctica expose seal pups and penguin chicks to much more UVSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...9 hours ago
- Granting legal ‘personhood’ to nature is a growing movement – can it stem biodiversity loss?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...9 hours ago
- Will checking character references really help you find the best candidate for a job?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...9 hours ago
- A guide to Wellington’s best BYO restaurantsWondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...9 hours ago
- New rock art discoveries in Eastern Sudan tell a tale of ancient cattle, the ‘green Sahara’ and ...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...10 hours ago
- Paul Goldsmith starts as new Media Minister replacing sacked Melissa LeeThe media industry is "under pressure", Paul Goldsmith says, but he plans to plot a path forward as he takes up the difficult role. ...10 hours ago
- Media industry sheds few tears for minister LeeThe sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...11 hours ago
- Is NZ bringing in 'Indonesian coal every month to keep the lights on'?Analysis: The Resource Minister said it, but is it true and why does it matter? ...11 hours ago
- More spending cuts needed to stablise government finances – economistThe government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...11 hours ago
- The government's 22 trips abroad in AprilThe government appears committed to overseas visits with 14 miniters and MPs in 18 countries this month. ...12 hours ago
- Loopholes will be exploited in new vape rules – expertsThere is no doubt vape manufacturers will find and exploit loopholes in new regulations, say marketing experts. ...12 hours ago
- Aotearoa Party Merges With Rock The Vote NZ Party And John Alcock Elected As Party LeaderRock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...13 hours ago
- After spending $2m on pins for Covid-19 workers, department now cutting costsGovernment department that spent $2m on lapel pins to honour Covid-19 workers is now looking to make cuts. ...13 hours ago
- An afternoon at the Repair Café, where everyday objects get a second lifeNearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...13 hours ago
- Dreaming of my not-wedding dayWhat does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...13 hours ago
- Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...13 hours ago - Daily crossword, Friday 26 AprilThe post Daily crossword, Friday 26 April appeared first on Newsroom. ...13 hours ago
- The outlook for engineering specialists looks bleakOpinion: Delays getting to the starting line of new programmes of work are causing significant disruption across the sector The post The outlook for engineering specialists looks bleak appeared first on Newsroom. ...13 hours ago
- Eliza wants more than a last tango in ParisIt’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...13 hours ago
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By an accident of birth, I am white. By a further aligning of the genetic miasma, I am male. By the grace of the society at my time of life, I received a good and free education, including university.
Am I entitled by these accident not of my own making to cast stones at people less fortunate?
Like hell I am! And I won’t! And nor should any compassionate New Zealander!
+1 from this white girl nicely put Tony
Just missed out on free tertiary education, but not pissed off with people for having what I didn’t, pissed off with the system for not allowing people equal opportunities.
Would be interesting to see the stat’s on rising poverty v’s lack of free tertiary education.
We know the causes of widening inequality and poverty. They are changes in tax rates allowing large fortunes to accrue and the intentional maintenance of persistent high levels of unemloyment in the economy.
The later change in economic practice in the 70s is discussed here.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=36530
This indicates people wind up unemployed because they are the least employable. Better education can change who is least employable but not reduce their number.
“We know the causes of widening inequality and poverty”
That would be difficult when the evidence shows neither are widening.
Delusional idiot doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Offers zero intelligent comment. Denies reality.
Your reference refers to the mid 80’s and 90’s.
The 2016 MSD Household Incomes Report shows you to be totally out of touch.
GINI in the 80’s: less than 2.5
GINI today: more than 3.
QED.
[deleted]
[stop cut and pasting without links. See my moderation note in your comment that got moved to OM. I suggest you start paying attention to what is going on in conversations. Putting you in moderation until I see you get what needs to happen here – weka]
I provided the source…the link is a downloaded word document (which I named) available here https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-incomes/
Are you trying to look a bit daft or something?
Newsroom: Bernard Hickey on the Perry report.
Perhaps you were hoping no-one would check.
Now you know the facts, you’ll be able to keep reminding yourself of them. Everyone else is already up to speed.
“Are you trying to look a bit daft or something?”
No, I’m happy making you look daft. YOU cited the GINI. I stuffed it back in your face. Now your ranting about something entirely different.
The GINI is a measure of inequality which has risen significantly since the eighties. It isn’t the only measure of inequality, which the Perry report also discusses.
Entirely different, sure. Pfft.
“The GINI is a measure of inequality…”
…you used to make a point and failed. Miserably.
Explain how my point failed please.
First, demonstrate that you can articulate or paraphrase my point.
Then, wait for my contemptuous and half-interested response.
Next, demonstrate that you can articulate or paraphrase the argument I’m using to support my point.
Then we can discuss it.
“Explain how my point failed please.”
Easy. You used an measure I showed to be inadequate. As it was moved to OM, I will repost (with source):
There is no evidence of any sustained rising or falling trend in BHC household income
inequality over the last two decades using the Gini and top 1% share measures
o The share of income received by the top 1% of tax-payers has been steady in the 8-9%
range since the early 1990s, up from 5% in the late 1980s.
o The Gini measure of inequality is a popular one but, because it uses information on all
household incomes, it is susceptible to showing large fluctuations because of sampling
issues for very high income households:
– the 2015 HES (like the 2011 HES) had an unusually high number of very high income
households, which led to an usually high Gini number
– in the 2016 HES the number of very high income households was a little closer to
normal and the Gini number dropped accordingly, back towards the trend line
– for the lower 99% there is no evidence of any sustained rising or falling trend in the last
20 years, using the Gini.
o Apart from a blip in 2011, the 90:10 ratio was fairly flat from 2004 to 2016. Like the top 1%
measure, the 90:10 showed a large rise from the late 1980s to the early 1990s – there was a
slight rise in the 90:10 ratio from the mid 1990s to the mid 2000s, but much less than the
earlier large rise.
https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-income-report/2017/c6-headline-findings-final-21-july-2017.pdf
So you can neither articulate or paraphrase my point. Here it is again. Have another try.
“GINI in the 80’s: less than 2.5
GINI today: more than 3.
QED.”
Oh, and by the way, the very next line from your cherry-picked cut-and-paste says:
Which was already covered (see link above).
QED.
“GINI in the 80’s: less than 2.5 GINI today: more than 3. QED.”
“The Gini measure of inequality is a popular one but, because it uses information on all household incomes, it is susceptible to showing large fluctuations because of sampling issues for very high income households: – the 2015 HES (like the 2011 HES) had an unusually high number of very high income households, which led to an usually high Gini number – in the 2016 HES the number of very high income households was a little closer to normal and the Gini number dropped accordingly, back towards the trend line – for the lower 99% there is no evidence of any sustained rising or falling trend in the last 20 years, using the Gini”
https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-income-report/2017/c6-headline-findings-final-21-july-2017.pdf
To spell it out, the GINI is a statistically weak measurement.
As previously noted, your MSD source also says
So both the GINI and the MSD agree with Nic the NZer.
You can whinge and wail about the inevitable imperfections (cf: George Box) of the statistical model all you like, but since your own source undermines your argument (“the evidence shows neither are widening”) as above, your bleating isn’t very persuasive.
“As previously noted, your MSD source also says…”
“AHC income inequality was also a little higher from 2011 to 2016 compared with the mid 2000s and earlier.”
https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-income-report/2017/c6-headline-findings-final-21-july-2017.pdf
A “little higher”.
There, fixed it for you.
(PS, next time quote you’re actual source).
🙄
As previously noted, straight after that it says:
I didn’t think I needed to link since you already had. It was embarrassing enough that your own source contradicted you without rubbing your face in it, enjoyable as that is.
Funnier still, McFlock and Carolyn_nth had already made the same point, and you still thought you could get away with misrepresenting your source.
Consider applying for a disability allowance. Libertarianism should qualify you automatically.
“As previously noted, straight after that it says…”
The reference I quoted is at the end of a section, at the top of page 3 of the reference document from MY source. That does not contradict me, it supports me.
Now where is the wording you are quoting? Because “straight after” (YOUR words) my reference is the following:
“Housing affordability issues remain for the lower two income quintiles (ie when looking at
rent, mortgage payments and rates … relative to income)
o The reports do not look at affordability for purchasing homes, just how affordable the
accommodation is once in the accommodation.
o From HES 2011 to 2016, around 42% in the bottom income quintile had housing outgoings of
more than 30% of income, 32% spent more than 40% of their income, and 25% more than
half their income on housing costs.
o For under 65s, over the whole bottom quintile, housing costs account on average for just over
half of household income (51%), up from 29% in the late 1980s.
o These figures are all high historically, but the rates have plateaued for the bottom quintile.
o There are regional variations, as indicated by analysis of rental information, for example …
but reliable HES-based regional analysis is not feasible because of sample size.”
Oops wrong quote: that’s Bernard Hickey’s summary at Newsroom.
Directly after the passage you’ve been cherry-picking, (ie: end of page 2, beginning of page 3) the MSD say:
Hickey’s summary is an accurate representation.
Nic the NZer’s original point stands. Yes, yes I know you don’t think so, and you can spare me your predictable tiresome denial.
“Oops wrong quote: that’s Bernard Hickey’s summary at Newsroom.”
Right, so you lied and then slagged off people with disabilities to have a crack at me for catching you out.
…and you still haven’t admitted you screwed up on the GINI comparisons. You really are having a bad day.
🙄
Keep telling yourself that.
So why do we top the OECD homeless list then?
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/cities-grow-worldwide-so-do-numbers-homeless
We don’t. The Yale survey is not accurate, because of the measurement methodology. If you actually read the report you would have seen the disclaimer.
Laughable nonsense – the OECD is just a little bit more reliable than you, you pitiful munter.
[everyone, please dial back the personal abuse. Someone has kindly allowed their work to be reposted here, I’d like them to feel that was a good idea – weka]
The measurement is accurate.
It’s you’re beliefs that are a denial of reality.
Yes we do – however much you twist and squirm the OECD numbers are absolutely credible – as confirmed by our own census data.
Read Chris’s post below. It includes a quote from Katipo’s own link.
The Measurements are flawed, but we are still pretty high comparatively, I would think.
eg Most countries don’t count people in their early 20s still living with their parents homeless, or elderly who have moved in with their kids, like they do here (which is frankly laughable)
And anyone who thinks we have more homeless than some countries in Europe have after the 10 odd million of syrian refugees that have been displaced, might want to take a reality pill
Turkey alone has had an influx of 5 million
And that isn’t counting what these countries already have
Britain has their refugee tunnel where they don’t even bother counting them anymore
The disclaimer statement from your own link
“Homelessness is more visible and varying definitions prevent global comparisons; experts debate if the problem is even solvable”
So nothing to see here, move along approach by you chris.
You obviously oblivious to church yards and church grounds across Auckland. These are now covered with the homeless. That said I’d expect the amoral to deny by any means possible that there is a problem. Or to attack the messenger.
It’s just another step in the rejection of Christian, and/or any values – which don’t worship cupidity.
I’m just saying the report itself says it is flawed and pointed out obvious reasons. Reasons that kind of make the conclusion we have the most homeless in the OECD a bit stupid.
With regard to your accusing me of saying “nothing to see here”.
Could you please point out where I said our homeless issues aren’t a major problem?
Obviously what we do have needs to be resolved and people helped.
No they didn’t.
They pointed out how it was difficult to compare across nations because of differing measures and standards and then used a methodology to generate a comparison that is generally accurate.
If it was “generally accurate”, they wouldn’t spend most of the page explaining and repeating why it can be so vastly in-accurate.
It makes it difficult to do comparisons – it doesn’t make it impossible.
And here’s the major point – comparing developed countries is easier because the data is more readily available and usually more accurate.
This is something you RWNJs don’t understand because, as reality always does, it proves your beliefs wrong.
Sorry. Can’t reply to your other post
What beliefs?
I haven’t said any
And “comparing developed countries is easier because the data is more readily available ”
Doesn’t make the data any more comparable, if the methodology the countries use has wildly different definitions, it’s availability is irrelevent.
As well as the issues of stigma and embarrassment the site says destort it, which would be worst in developed countries.
“If it was “generally accurate”, they wouldn’t spend most of the page explaining and repeating why it can be so vastly in-accurate.”
Exactly.
Your beliefs that right-wing policies are good when all the evidence tells us the opposite.
Yes it does because it’s easy to define where the inconsistencies are and make adjustments.
[citation needed]
In fact, isn’t that what you’re doing now? Claiming that it really isn’t that bad despite the facts showing that it really is that bad?
All I have claimed is that the report uses flawed methodology
The report even says that it’s stats are wildly inaccurate
I haven’t said we have not got a major issue, so please stop putting words in my mouth.
Did you miss this in my original post?
Why do you insist on making it personal?
And now I am probably going to get some sort of warning because I bothered to answer your name calling.
Then offer solutions rather than attack the messenger with nothing to see here arguments.
The only one that seems to be attacking the messenger is DTB
I’m criticising a study that uses the very same criticism on itself
Apart from the fact that acknowledging shortcomings and difficulties is not the same as saying that it’s generally inaccurate.
I actually like a report with lots of disclaimers – it suggests that the authors are being rigorous, and we can examine those factors to see if they effect the specific point we’re looking at.
So the general jist for us of the Harvard thing is that “homelessness is comparatively bad in NZ”, and it makes a reasonable go at comparing apples with apples.
So maybe the ordering is off, or whatever – the fact remains that if we’ve enough homeless to be leading the developed world even by tabulatory accident, this country is going off the rails.
So again chris nothing but more attack the messenger stuff from you. It’s quite tiresome, and not a little sad. I invited you to offer up a solution, indeed any solutions, but you are just in attack politics mode.
Two NZs: one is very rich, the other very poor
A toxic mix of low wage growth and fast-rising rents
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/07/25/39964?slug=a-toxic-mix-of-low-wage-growth-and-fast-rising-rents
And yet the MSD data shows:
“Strong real income growth for most income groups from HES 2008-09 to HES 2015-16 …”
“There is no evidence of any sustained rising or falling trend in BHC household income inequality over the last two decades using the Gini and top 1% share measures.”
https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-income-report/2017/c6-headline-findings-final-21-july-2017.pdf
Such rote learned rhetoric is tiresome and delusional, drawing on an ideologically biased and flawed analysis without any critical analysis is evidence that you are unable to see beyond the indoctrinated rhetoric that has become such a large part of your psyche. I am not sure that people such as yourself can learn how to critically analyse information, but based on the comments above, I suspect it is highly unlikely.
Oh, it (the MSD study) isn’t really a flawed analysis: Norfolk Traveller was just very careful to select only the parts of it that support their internal story.
A reading of the whole, as McFlock and Carolyn_nth have said, paints a very different picture.
Rubbish. The report is absolutely clear. It rubbishes the false rhetoric you’ve been running, so you don’t like it. Own up.
🙄
Far from “not liking it”, I quoted it at 7.10am.
So you don’t like the result, and therefore you accuse the MSD report of being “ideologically biased and flawed”? Yet you fail to support that assertion.
Crap – i had almost finished a comment, quoting from the linked report, then my keyboard flipped me away from this thread – lost the comment.
Basically, you are quoting BHC – Before Housing Costs are deducted. The major divide/inequality shows AHC – After Housing Costs are deducted. The major divide these days are between home owners and renters – and that kind of inequality is much harder to reverse than income inequality.
Furthermore, the report shows that incomes for all deciles went up between 2008-9 and 2015-6, by about 11-13% at the median, the minimum wage went up by about 7%, and beneficiaries incomes remained flat.
So any people sitting comfortably on owning property, as well as a good income, and pontificating about the behaviour of renters on low incomes, including beneficiaries, need to get a clue!
PS: To quote the placard beside the little home a guy has set up on the covered public walkway beside the St James Theatre in Auckland CBD, during recent weeks:
“Basically, you are quoting BHC – Before Housing Costs are deducted. The major divide/inequality shows AHC – After Housing Costs are deducted.”
Rubbish.
I quote “AHC income inequality was also a
little higher from 2011 to 2016 compared with the mid 2000s and earlier.”
Note – “a little”. https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-income-report/2017/c6-headline-findings-final-21-july-2017.pdf
“the report shows that incomes for all deciles went up between 2008-9 and 2015-6, by about 11-13% at the median, the minimum wage went up by about 7%, and beneficiaries incomes remained flat.”
Quote:
” Strong real income growth for most income groups from HES 2008-09 to HES 2015-16 …
o BHC median up 3% pa in real terms in the post GFC recovery phase (ie 3% pa above CPI).
o Net gains of around 11-13% in real terms from HES 2008-09 to 2015-16 for all income
groups from the top of the bottom decile (P10) up, 11% at the median.
o This is better than many OECD countries whose middle incomes have been relatively flat
since the GFC (eg Australia, UK, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, and the US)”
And then we had the first real increase in benefit rates in 40 years, and the families package in the 2017 budget. So an already favourable position gets better.
I hate to burst your bubble, but the left have been running a poverty rhetoric that is utterly devoid of reality, and the public is now seeing through it.
“Basically, you are quoting BHC – Before Housing Costs are deducted. The major divide/inequality shows AHC – After Housing Costs are deducted.”
Rubbish.
I quote “AHC income inequality was also a
little higher from 2011 to 2016 compared with the mid 2000s and earlier.”
Note – “a little”. https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/monitoring/household-income-report/2017/c6-headline-findings-final-21-july-2017.pdf
“the report shows that incomes for all deciles went up between 2008-9 and 2015-6, by about 11-13% at the median, the minimum wage went up by about 7%, and beneficiaries incomes remained flat.”
Quote:
” Strong real income growth for most income groups from HES 2008-09 to HES 2015-16 …
o BHC median up 3% pa in real terms in the post GFC recovery phase (ie 3% pa above CPI).
o Net gains of around 11-13% in real terms from HES 2008-09 to 2015-16 for all income
groups from the top of the bottom decile (P10) up, 11% at the median.
o This is better than many OECD countries whose middle incomes have been relatively flat
since the GFC (eg Australia, UK, Spain, France, Italy, Germany, and the US)”
And then we had the first real increase in benefit rates in 40 years, and the families package in the 2017 budget. So an already favourable position gets better.
I hate to burst your bubble, but the left have been running a poverty rhetoric that is utterly devoid of reality, and the public is now seeing through it.
Repeated rubbish is still rubbish NT – no amount of spurious logic redeems your lack of rigour in using data. You’re supposed to be critical of what you surmise, and look for multiple ways to check that you have real effects, not cherrypick.
A few simple things like foodbank expansion and suicide numbers are sufficient to show that your position is blatant misrepresentation.
I’m posting data from an MSD report. If you think the data is wrong, prove it. Denying it is just delusional.
You’re posting cherrypicked data instead of trying to build a comprehensive profile of the problem. I’m kind of curious to know how you managed to graduate.
“You’re posting cherrypicked data …”
You’re just parroting talking points to use when proven wrong. There is no cherry picking. I am quoting directly from the MSD report.
Selectively quoting – because no whole report is so unbalanced as to serve your false narrative.
Still does not mean you can commit fraud and be above the law That’s all MeTu has done and declared for political gain, every one knows life is not a bucket of roses on the bwnifit we don’t need MeTu to tell us, it’s not suppose to be, that’s what most people want it to be, not a long term life style choice Your white guilt privilege is a bit silly but for another day
oh der you are such a one note song – out of tune too – with the times, with the changes coming – just a wee boy or girl who is scared and doesn’t know what to do – here you go wee fella – vote left and you will feel better.
I feel no ‘white guilt.’ What I do have is the imagination to put myself in the place of Metiria and to conclude that I probably would have acted exactly as she did.
You completely missed it, didn’t you Red ? And magnificently reinforced the message of the post. Well done !
Nup I get exactly what he was saying You in turn have missed my point that basically disagrees with his underlying premise , will dumb. It down for you next time, sorrry
Really? Because it looks to me like you didn’t read the post and are just using this thread to push your broken record agenda.
Could you dumb it down though, Red?
Seems rock-bottom dumb as it is.
“Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed.”
― Herman Melville
Well said Tony (1). Wholeheartedly agree.
To me this election is becoming more and more about a simple choice.
Do you want a world that is more human? Yes then vote green, the party that has a human centric policy platform
This is such a positive, invigorating article and flys in the face of the wall to wall msm bullshit about Metiria.
The Establishment is panicking. Can we beat them?
We need to spread this article far and wide….
Human centric platform policy whatever thst means, but one snall problem no economy to sustain the human centric platform
[both Labour and the Greens have credible and professionally assessed economic policies and platforms. Stop trolling, and count this as a warning – weka]
Human centric is focusing on the human interaction and humans needs, not on the needs of the economy (what ever that is).
There is no economy without humans, so why do we focus on economic solutions? Why are we so obsessed with making the economy better if it means ruining human lives? or the environment?
Surely if you want a strong secure economy you ensure that you have strong secure human society. If you want strong secure human society surely you ensure the environment is strong and secure?
I recommend reading a book called “More Human” by Steve Hilton
https://www.amazon.com/More-Human-Designing-World-People/dp/1610396529
Steve Hilton was a policy advisor for David Cameron, and who has now moved to the US and had an epiphany when he realised that we were ruining the world for his kids when we focus on just the economy. He is still wedded to the idea that the market is a supreme being, but in the book he argues for a change of focus of the economy to deliver better outcomes for humans.
Isn’t improving human lives why the Government has a Social Investment Agency?
https://siu.govt.nz
The overarching objective of all of the Government’s policies is about improving prosperity. Strong economies deliver that.
There are some things that do need work. More efficient markets in housing is the pressing need. Also much better use of tradeable water rights to improve water quality.
Hopefully over the next 6 years we can see progress on all these fronts.
Prosperity for WHOM?
isn’t 9 years enough to tackle these issues?
Guess who said this in 2007?
“These are tough problems – very tough problems. But I have no intention of being a Prime Minister who tackles only the easy and convenient issues. I don’t pretend I’ve got all the solutions. But I can tell you that dealing with the problems of our growing underclass is a priority for National, both in opposition and in government.
………..[W]e are all in this together. We all stand to lose from the emergence of a growing underclass, and we all stand to gain by doing something about it.
……………Is it really beyond us as a country to ensure that every kid turns up to primary school with some food in their stomach? I don’t think so.”
National have an economic policy that’s destroying the economy hand over fist as they hand it all to the rich.
partially agree but simply saying we will raise tax to further redistribution only looks at upfront cost not necessarily the unintended consequences and indirect cost of such policy , that is my point, you could argue this both ways re left and right policy , example raising tax on tobacco all good and well until you hit a tipping point of unintended consequences as we see now, black market, price hitting the poor the hardest, increased crime etc
True about the clarity of it all YF ! In fact I’m now propelled from ‘considering’ a party vote Green (in the first place because of Metiria) to a settled intention that way. Comment of the like from Red above and mortified pearl clutching by the parasitical and often hubristic rich, a la the loathsome Hosking, only strengthens my resolve. Gosh it feels good !
+ 1 yep me too
I have no problem at all supporting the poor through taxes. In fact, I wish they were high enough – for everyone – to eliminate poverty. The only reason there are poor people is because there are rich people.
You do realise it is possible for a rich person to make a poor financial decision and become poor overnight don’t you?
Don’t know what your point is supposed to be, but it shouldn’t be possible for anyone to become poor; there are more than enough resources to prevent it.
+111
I’m sure that’s possible. The problem is that the government steps in and prevents that from happening (see SCF) while ensuring that the poor get ever deeper in poverty.
Make every one poor that will work. Venezuela, North Korea, the old Soviet Union all good examples, every one poor but at least equal
Graham Hart minus $3b would still not be poor.
I’m left wondering how flexible our justice system is. They’ve been regularly charging and imprisoning people for this type of benefit ‘fraud’ and Metiria looks to have thrown down the metaphoric gauntlet to authorities.
If they don’t charge her those already convicted for similar offences may have new grounds to appeal their convictions. Those yet to be charged will also have a new defence. If they do charge her it will be a bit of a cause celebre.
Whatever the ramifications it’s a pretty courageous and selfless admittance from Metiria, she must have known the risks.
How much raging was directed at this far greater fraud?…
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2910957/Bill-English-buckles-over-housing-allowance
Exactly. Where are those raging critics having apoplexy at Bill English’s lack of conscience in wanting this housing allowance and an extra cleaning allowance. Nowhere to be seen. Likewise the entitlement of Todd Barclay to keep his income as long as possible. It seems if you are higher up the ladder it is accepted and expected you get all the benefits possible. That shows how deserving and smart you are.
The bullying male culture of Hosking and others is in full swing though towards someone they can pick on and someone who speaks for all those struggling.
What obnoxious creatures they are – and as for Michelle Boag, what a nasty horrible woman she is.
“What obnoxious creatures……etc”
They and their hypocrisy are bloody interesting to watch though.
Amazing how they all emerge when something like the MT episode happens and one is (more than) familiar with some of their backgrounds.
Bloody Soper FFS! BOAG ( what a vile specimen – reminds me of how history repeats….all those Karori pearl clutchers of old who used to rinse their hair with ‘a touch’ of blue and be seen at “National Orchestra” concerts because it was the place to be seen….and of blokes who consciously or unconsciously emulate their fathers whilst the “wimmin folk” worry about turning out like their mothers).
Then there’s Hosking and others ffs!
Funny lot the boomers and for many of them, the progression from peace love goodwiil to all mankind and sex drugs and roknroll to staid unimaginative bigoted socially conservative kaka.
Do as I say, not as I do or have Dunne
Nothing wrong with the “National Orchestra”, Tim. There was a time when the National Party, like the Labour Party, was full of cultured and sensitive people such as the late Alan Highet. They actually appreciated music and patronised classical concerts for the sake of the music.
Michelle Boag, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to have any finer feelings whatsoever.
There was yes.
I just wonder at times as to the likes of a Finlayson (for eg), and others so quick to put shit on MT given their past.
Not that I’ve ever voted for them, but today’s Gnats are nothing like those of the past.
In Old Leftie thinking the proletariat would rise and form its own dictatorship.
So Metiria, speaking for the oppressed, would be the towering voice at the vanguard of a rising phalanx of the poor, and sweep the Greens into coalition victory. Shaw is right that Metiria is the reason we are now talking poverty in an election.
It’s generally expected that such an inspired uprising would be led against a totalitarian order that is selfish, immoral, irresponsible, cruel, and based on unconstitutional rule.
What actually happens is different. As we have seen in the blogs and heard on the talkback shows for over a week, it is the proletariat that is the most repressive and conservative force in our society.
It is repressive particularly about our social welfare because welfare is a class marker with really clear ratcheting points.
Working For Families is for couples with children who work. They are in the broad public view the most deserving of the working strugglers, because they work. They have the superior implied claim to the great social bargain that if they work hard, the state in return will subsidise their labour and their children with direct money, education and health.
But they need to keep their class distinction with the several layers below them in society. People who break that compact and crow about it like Metiria Turei get the full force of their wrath because that Working For Families class is consistently slipping backwards no matter how big the state subsidies are.
The second tranche of Deserving are those now on NZSuper. They can roll out how they have successfully parented already, served this country for decades, and in essence deserve that public subsidy. They don’t want the lower social welfare strata broken because they are very vulnerable to being appointed guardians over children from failed families and in turn being pulled backwards.
Our middle class have been largely liquidated. Our upper class don’t need to care. The greatest enforcers of welfare are the already-subsidised. The mid-proletariat have become our dominant class, and it is their oppression of the real poor that suppresses the revolutionary impulse Metiria is wishing for.
Great summary of the background strata divisions and their effect.
UBI
Did Lepers in Jesus time steal from taxpayers? Did they knowingly receive money from the government of the day they were not entitled to? Where Lepers seeking public office while knowingly committing fraud?
Metitira did not side with Lepers. She stole money that should have been going to other people.
Norfolk Traveller……like Red you seem to completely miss the point conveyed by the metaphor. Why would that be ? Because you’re stupid ? Frankly I doubt that. Which leaves only this – your advised response speaks much greater ill of you than it does of Metiria. Further, you piss into the wind claiming that Metiria deprived anyone of, or reduced, their entitlement. You’re being hysterical in that regard NT. Calm yourself with a cuppa and a morning read of the Bible……noting the metaphors therein citing moneylenders, camels, needles etc.
No, I totally understand the metaphor. It is a disgraceful misrepresentation, using a people group who were ostracised for their conspicuous medical condition. Metiria is a selfish cheat, who put her political ambitions ahead of her child, and ahead of her fellow beneficiaries.
Medical beneficiaries in NZ routinely get ostracised. Turei and the Greens want to fix that.
“Medical beneficiaries in NZ routinely get ostracised.”
Do you have any evidence of this?
I”m a medical beneficiary. Im’, ostracised by society at large for the simple reason I’m in receipt of a benefit, doesn’t matter WHY I need said benefit.
It’s having to write “beneficiary” as your occupation on assorted forms that you just can’t lie on (Census, immigration, ACC).
Having to work out a plausible answer for when you might casually be asked what you do for a job and you’re sure as hell not going to let them know what your source of income really is.
If I lose my current flat I can forget competing in the private market. My ability to pay and glowing references will mean nothing when they find out I’m on a benefit. Surely you’ve heard via the media what awful tenants beneficiaries are??
It’s being surrounded and not being able to escape the constant bashing. Maybe you think you’re just having a swipe at those drug addled lazy unemployed and reckless solo mums (not that you should be) but the vile nasty comments all over the media are a non-stop attack on my right to exist as a member of this society.
Society currently ranks us maybe one step above incarcerated prisoners, if not on a par. If that’s not ostracised, what is?
Well said Kay. Most disabled in this country are feeling the bit of this brutal politics – perpetuated by the commitment to ideological purity from the right.
A good example of that is Norfolk Traveller who is going to use his vote to punish people for stepping out of line, come election day.
Like Kay, I have my own direct experiences of this, including threats and damage to property. I’ve also listened to the stories of many ill and disabled people who have experienced lots of different kinds of prejudice and ostracisation.
There is also the political messaging e.g. David Shearer’s Paint on the Roof speech.
Lots of evidence.
Hi Weka.
That’s not evidence, and certainly not of ‘routine’ ostracisation. You are relating personal anecdotes. I have many examples of excellent treatment by WINZ (particularly around their treatment of elderly spouses of recently deceased), but I would not present it as evidence.
In fact, every day, people go to prison on the say-so of witnesses; you don’t get to rule people’s experiences as ‘inadmissable’.
The times WINZ does its job competently do not excuse those occasions when it does its job poorly.
However, the worst behaviour by far is that exhibited by the National Party.
And every day witness testimony is disregarded because it doesn’t match knowable facts.
NT,you’re never going to be satisfied with any of our responses are you? Do you need a peer reviewed article from a scientific journal proving said ostracising? Somehow I suspect that won’t even be enough because either you genuinely don’t believe it happens or you’re trying to stir things up.
Like it or not, the (very)few positive experiences encountered with winz are the extreme exception. Medical beneficiaries are treated on a par with all other working age beneficiaries, and as a general rule pensioners for the most still get treated as human beings by both winz and the rest of society.
“Do you need a peer reviewed article from a scientific journal proving said ostracising? ”
No. But neither am I going to blindly accept one persons anecdote.
lucky there’s more than one, eh
If you take people’s personal experiences out of the picture, then there would be no way to gather evidence. Even the best researchers still need to have actual people to talk to.
Shearer’s Painter in the Roof story is online. That you wrote off the stories of actual beneficiaries as not important, but failed to address an MP’s actual speech suggests to me that you don’t care about evidence at all and instead are just here to support your own bigoted position in whatever way you can.
Not so. I have a lot of time for David Shearer, but this was an excellent response to his piece http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/editorials/7457141/Editorial-Shearer-missing-the-point.
If there is a systemic approach to alienate beneficiaries prove it, and I’ll join you in fighting it.
😆
Proofs are hard to come by outside of Mathematics.
Define what would constitute ‘proof’ to your personal tiny little satisfaction.
“Define what would constitute ‘proof’ to your personal tiny little satisfaction.”
Documentary evidence of a systemic attempt to alienate beneficiaries. A reputable study.
Define ‘reputable’. Give examples. Show how you will measure it.
“Define ‘reputable’. ”
With independent recognition. You would need to show that there was a ‘routine’, widespread attitude that was systemic.
How would you study this now that personal experience has been ruled out?
“How would you study this now that personal experience has been ruled out?”
I haven’t. I’ve ruled out unsubstantiated anecdotes.
Seen this film?
I recommend it. It tends to build empathy in people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahWgxw9E_h4
You would need to show that there was a ‘routine’, widespread attitude that was systemic.
Depressingly easy.
“Depressingly easy.”
Third stuff up for you today. This discussion is about WINZ. Your reference isn’t. It refers to unintended legislative consequence, which was quickly remedied, btw.
“Mr Finlayson finds the discrimination cannot be justified under provisions of the Act which allow reasonable limits on particular rights or freedoms if they serve an important and significant objective’ and there is a rational and proportionate’ connection between the limitation and the objective.
“The stated objective of the [welfare] bill as a whole is to create a fairer benefit system with an unrelenting focus on beneficiaries entering or returning to employment.
“While this is an important and significant objective, the different treatment of people on the DPB-SP compared to women on the WB and DPB-WA does not serve this objective because it does not create a fairer benefit system or encourage beneficiaries to enter or return to employment.”
Your source.
It’s about the work tests that WINZ administer and it isn’t about them?
Hmm sure. Keep on believing that.
Edit: you probably need more information before you can grasp this:
If your employer asks you to breach human rights, what do you do?
“It’s about the work tests that WINZ administer and it isn’t about them?”
Before you waste any more of my time, read the thread. The conversation is about treatment by WINZ. WINZ staff administer the law. The law was at fault, but they were not to know that. Stop wasting my time.
Third time today!
The law was at fault, but they were not to know that.
Bollocks. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been asked to break the law a couple of times in my working life. On both occasions it (my flat refusal to comply) was a learning experience for my employer.
Beyond that, I have terminated contractual arrangements where a clients ethics were at sufficient variance to my own.
“I was just following orders, I didn’t know” isn’t a defence. Cf: A Report on the Banality of Evil or the Lerner experiment.
“I don’t know about you, but I’ve been asked to break the law a couple of times in my working life. On both occasions it (my flat refusal to comply) was a learning experience for my employer.”
You have no evidence whatsoever WINZ staff knowingly broke the law. None.
Baby steps. The fact that the law breaches the Bill of Rights means they do so every day.
I don’t think you really got my point about the Banality of Evil or the Lerner experiment. If you want to be a better Libertarian I think you should probably acquaint yourself with them both. They go right to the guts of your dogma.
he’s already read up on the nuremberg defense
“The fact that the law breaches the Bill of Rights means they do so every day.”
You’re backtracking faster than McFlock today. I’ll let it slide.
Except that I’m not backtracking.
First, demonstrate that you understand what I’m saying. Paraphrase my argument, so that I’m sure you understand it.
For clues, I suggest you read what I’ve actually written. Also, acquaint yourself with the fact that ignorance of the law isn’t a defence., and nor is following orders.
Plus, remember that you asked for evidence of “a systemic approach to alienate beneficiaries”. What could be better evidence than breaches of the BoRA enshrined in law. As a payer of lip service to liberty I’m not surprised you’re flailing around in denial.
“Except that I’m not backtracking.”
Of course you are. You confused the subject completely.
[citation needed]
PS: “systemic” ≠ “knowingly”, no matter how much you twist and turn and contradict your bad faith rhetoric.
I said:
“The law was at fault, but they were not to know that.”
You said:
“Bollocks.”
I said:
“You have no evidence whatsoever WINZ staff knowingly broke the law. None.”
To which you replied:
“The fact that the law breaches the Bill of Rights means they do so every day.”
Perhaps you should stick to insulting people with disabilities.
Thanks for providing evidence that you attempted to shift the goalposts.
You asked for evidence of “systemic” discrimination at 4.14. Then, when it was provided, you suddenly, at 5.17, started pretending that the benchmark was “knowing” breaches of the law.
And it’s all laid out here for anyone to read. Keep twisting and turning and pretending and fuck off.
PS: “I’ll join you in fighting it”.
Turncoat piece of shit.
“You asked for evidence of “systemic” discrimination at 4.14.”
Which you haven’t provided. If the discrimination was ‘systemic, the government would support the discrimination and further enshrine it in law. The government response in your own reference proves you wrong.
Quote the “government response” from the link I posted that “proves me wrong”, turncoat.
“Enshrined in law”.
Section 121 of the Social Security Act, for example.
Bennett rejected Finlayson’s concerns.
Except for the Attorney General and me, and one or two others like the Law Society.
Not you though, obviously, with your false pledges and denial.
“Quote the “government response” from the link I posted that “proves me wrong””
Gladly:
“Mr Finlayson finds the discrimination cannot be justified under provisions of the Act which allow reasonable limits on particular rights or freedoms if they serve an important and significant objective’ and there is a rational and proportionate’ connection between the limitation and the objective.
“The stated objective of the [welfare] bill as a whole is to create a fairer benefit system with an unrelenting focus on beneficiaries entering or returning to employment.
“While this is an important and significant objective, the different treatment of people on the DPB-SP compared to women on the WB and DPB-WA does not serve this objective because it does not create a fairer benefit system or encourage beneficiaries to enter or return to employment.”
The discrimination was passed into law and therefore meets any reasonable definition of “systemic”.
Nothing you’ve cited refutes that.
“The discrimination was passed into law …”
…and is being reviewed as a result of having been found. Hence the AG’s comments.
Disabled get shafted in this country, is the short answer.
Those who are dealt a poor hand, get kicked to the curb. And many on the right of politics in this country then ignore it, or worse – reach for so called economic arguments to back up their hate and or lack of empathy.
Norfolk I am guessing you have no idea what it’s like to be a solo mother, so until you do perhaps you should keep your opinions to your self.
What nonsense. I have no idea what it is like to be a senior citizen. Should i not speak out on their behalf? Your argument is really quite puerile.
Amusing. Norfolk Traveller believes he’s qualified to speak on behalf of senior citizens, though he’s not one, while also believing that Kay cannot represent medical beneficiaries, though she is one.
Has there ever been a clearer example of logical disconnect than this?
bless his hateful little soul, lol
“Has there ever been a clearer example of logical disconnect than this?”
No. But let’s call it what it seminally is…….rightist social fanaticism in an order that would merit inclusion in a list.
well THAT’s a bit much.
No need for lists…
“Poverty does not belong in civilized human society. Its proper place is in a museum.”
Muhammad Yunus
Lol you know your winning when the right wing nut jobs start talking about Jesus and lepers – fuck that was funny nt thanks.
Read the article.
lol, semi-literate cretin didn’t read the post
The post deploys a metaphor using lepers, and included a pic of Jesus healing the Lepers (Luke 17). The only person Metiria has sided with is herself.
“The only person Metiria has sided with is herself.”
On her own in this, ya reckon, NT?
How very wrong you are. There’s a groundswell of support for her. Metiria has volunteered as scapegoat. You’re firing your arrows, on cue, as you are bound to do, Norfolk Traveller. You relentlessly oppose the basic premise of those who are comfortable posting here and your attack on Metiria fits neatly within your prescription to unsettle and erode the confidence of readers here. Thus, your efforts are wasted on me and many others here who recognise you by the odour; rotten. I know, it’s harsh to say it out loud, but there you are.
There is no groundswell. That is the echo chamber you inhabit.
Ah yes, the “Lefties aren’t real people’ argument. Someone remind me what percentage of the vote ACT get.
The echo you hear is actually the cavernous space inside your skull.
There is no groundswell…is no groundswell…no groundswell…groundswell….
Please demonstrate, Norfolk Traveller, that you don’t inhabit an echo-chamber.
Mordecai and Groundhog and Maninthemiddle would disagree with you if only they were here.
I would be missing them, if it weren’t for…
A metaphor involving NT and Pharisees comes to mind. 🙂
If we’re talking stealing from taxpayers Joyce and English are in the gun three or four orders of magnitude before Metiria.
Provide a reference for the legal case being brought against them.
No – I’m not your servant you deleted expletive – many law breakers go unprosecuted and unpunished.
Did your recent irrational frenzy and attempted demonization of Metiria include other fraudsters? How about Peter Dunne, who claims the benefits of leading a party that doesn’t exist, which he could not even be bothered to register because it doesn’t exist.
No.
So what we actually have here is you trying to market your prejudice, not because you give a monkey’s about fraud, but because it’s a stick you think you can beat her with – which you are trying to do instead of addressing the issue she raised.
You are not fooling anybody.
+ 1 yep, nicely put.
“…many law breakers go unprosecuted and unpunished.”
Stuart you have claimed that two senior ministers of the crown have stolen from taxpayers. Do you seriously believe that that action would go unprosecuted?
It has gone unprosecuted.
Name a single crime that Joyce or Key committed that has gone unprosecuted.
🙄
“Joyce and English” to “Joyce or Key”.
Typical.
Misappropriation of public monies – soft loans made and money paid to Mediaworks.
Abuse of parliamentary privilege to obtain financial advantage – John Key’s extraction of data on rail that allowed him to speculate on the shares in the manner that is called insider trading.
Improper claiming of allowances – Bill notorious double dip. If he’d been a bene he’d’ve got a criminal record on his cv for that.
Evidence.
These are all three well-documented.
If you can’t be bothered to follow current affairs your argument fails ad ignorantiam.
“These are all three well-documented.”
So provide evidence. References to the charges. Evidence of guilt. Come on, if they truly stole, where are the charges?
You asked for evidence that they weren’t prosecuted which is hard to show when they weren’t prosecuted.
We know that these things happened – they’re well documented. We know that they weren’t prosecuted because the fuckers didn’t go to jail for it.
You misunderstand – it is you who are defending the accusation of flagrant bias against Metiria.
The onus of proof is on you to show that you were equally concerned with these public instances of fraud, or confess that you are a mere fougasse, a rightwing blatheroon pretending to rational discourse to waste everyone’s time.
We will of course be pleased to consider the strident pursuit of some other public fraudster, if you can demonstrate that you have ever done so.
“We know that these things happened – they’re well documented. ”
You do know how weak that sounds.
“… it is you who are defending the accusation of flagrant bias against Metiria.”
I’m not defending anything. If you want to justify fraud by leveling allegations against other people you cannot prove, then fill your boots.
A good example is the illegal and it turns out extended surveillance of Kim Dotcom by the GCSB. It was criminal – but signed off by the acting PM. So we can repose no confidence in the supposed legal integrity of this government. And the example is by no means unique.
So who broke the law? Certainly not the PM of the time.
In that instance the GCSB broke the law and went unpunished.
You should work on your comprehension skills – Robert could probably recommend someone who could help you.
That’s right, the GCSB. Not the PM. Come back when you’ve got something meaningful to add.
Illegality sanctioned at the highest level and you don’t care.
But you care about attacking Metiria because she threatens the maskirovka this government has performed instead of governing.
So, you’re not concerned about crooks – you wouldn’t turn on Bill till his appeal had been rejected by the privy council – so don’t to be pretending to ethical standards you manifestly don’t possess.
You’re an archetype of the abusive far-right troll: a scofflaw, given to misrepresenting data and dismissing better informed commentary.
“So, you’re not concerned about crooks –”
You claimed that both Joyce and English stole from the taxpayers. You have not a shred of evidence.
In fact there is an abundance of evidence – it’s very hard to keep secrets in a little country like NZ, even when the journalists are MIA.
“In fact there is an abundance of evidence – it’s very hard to keep secrets in a little country like NZ, even when the journalists are MIA.”
So post it. And why there was no prosecution.
The PM sanctioned illegal action. That in itself is illegal.
Here you go:
“Bill English’s role in trying to “cover up” spying on Kim Dotcom faces scrutiny…”
‘Scrutiny’. Guilty until proven innocent?
Guilty until proven innocent?
If you want to justify fraud
Compare and contrast these two statements from the same tarnished, flailing source. Witness the colossal stupidity of trying to push an ethical barrow in opposing directions.
It’s like real-time Anthropology minus the new discoveries and David Attenborough.
“Compare and contrast these two statements/…”
Indeed. Scrutiny f an issue seems to be the best evidence of any wrongdoing presented so far. If that satisfies your burden of proof, well you’re seriously lacking in intelligence.
So, we have established that you are utterly unconcerned by fraud, that you are a wittering RW buffoon, that your bias is absolute, and that you don’t follow current events. Oddly enough this renders your views less than entirely persuasive.
“So, we have established that you are utterly unconcerned by fraud,…”
No, what we have established is that I am utterly concerned with actual evidence. You know, like we have for Metiria’s fraud, the illegal behaviour you are defending.
Even when they and the crime they committed is known. Seems to happen quite a lot with rich white folk.
Ha ha Norfolk you are to funny, unlike the govt of today, Jesus did not condem the poor or the sick or solo mothers (like myself)
Not the people, but her certainly condemned the behaviour.
That isn’t how you spell “blessed”.
Apart from the moneygrubbers, I’m struggling to recall the Toad of Nazareth being reported as condemning anyone, and I’m hardly his biggest fan.
Neither do I. Behaviour, though, oh yes He did.
Hypocrisy, for example, and passing by on the other side of the road. Failing to turn the other cheek.
The love of money.
Are you seriously suggesting we should not call out a fraudster who lied repeatedly and then kept it secret for 20+years?
Newsflash! Extra! Extra, this just in!
She called herself out. Public confession. Then you started throwing stones.
You may recall the phrase “ethical benchmarks”. I can’t imagine why.
Ah, but she didn’t tell all the truth straight up, did she.
No, wait, it turns out I can imagine why.
I thought Jesus showed tolerance of publicly-condemned behaviour, ie prostitution, as he understood the reasons for it. Would Jesus have condemned Metiria? Hell no 🙂 (Somebody had to say it). Norfolk Traveller, your milk, you know, your “human kindness” milk, is curdled and sour. Do you sometimes reflect upon why that might be? I’ve some suggestions that might help.
“I thought Jesus showed tolerance of publicly-condemned behaviour,…”
Not at all. That is a very common misconception. Jesus loved the sinner, but hated the sin. “10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ 11 ‘No one, sir,’ she said.
‘Then neither do I condemn you,’ Jesus declared. ‘Go now and leave your life of sin.’” John 8.
The Pharisee is strong in this one.
Busy today. I suspect he’s entering the last stages of a trooling frenzy before his idiocy picks up a ban.
Prostitution is a sin, Norfolk Traveller?
I seeeee…
It was as far as Jesus was concerned. Clearly.
And you think He might have mounted a campaign of denigration against Metiria, as you have done?
“And you think He might have mounted a campaign of denigration against Metiria, as you have done?”
What campaign? I am simply repeating what is in the public domain. And there is much in the public domain that I have chosen not to mention that makes this even worse for her.
I am shocked at how many people in New Zealand hate children so much that they want them to suffer.
And solo mums. The rights argument is that they’re the equivalent of Bernie Madoff lol.
A word of warning to Labour. If you over-play criticism of Metiria Turei because you think it will pacify the mass of ill-informed punters, you will lose many of your own supporters.
After the mass Ruth Richardson initiated redundancies of the 1990s. many of us went through the welfare system and we understand why Metiria was driven to do what she did. Many thousands of us were equally driven just to survive.
Metiria Turei is not a criminal. She is a courageous woman and long after the Hoskings, Sopers and others of their miserable ilk have been discarded as ignorant, greedy, self-righteous hypocrites, she will be remembered for taking up the challenge on behalf of the financially poor and disenfranchised citizens of this country.
Yep it is time to stand with Metiria, beside her and facing the same direction.
+1000
+2000 you and Anne.
I think we need to have MT’s back on this one too. All our backs in fact.
Who was in government after Ruth Richardson and what was done to reverse what she did?
Why was Metiria not so courageous when she was in parliament under the last Labour government?
there’s a timing thing going on here. Some of it’s about the Green Party and their evolution. Some of it’s about what has happened internationally with parties breaking left. Some of it is that Labour are now willing to partner with the Greens. Some of it is that people are really just sick of how bad things in NZ have become.
“Who was in government after Ruth Richardson and what was done to reverse what she did?”
Clark’s government changed some things about WINZ culture. It was definitely better during those years than before or after. But Labour refused to deal with the underlying issues because of their own ideology around welfare as well as the by then entrenched bene-bashing culture. No govt has redressed what National did in the 90s, that’s the point. What the Greens are doing is that radical.
+111
I suggest politically if this ploy by MeTu does not come off there will some interesting times for the greens as a political party post election I see in many countries Au Germany GB Etc green vote has fallen away considerably
We can certainly do without a rehash of David Fucking Shearer’s beneficiary on the roof smear. There are still plenty of neolibs in Labour who’d do that.
Oh and I meant to add to my 8.2 but had to run:
it was no coincidence that the cuts to the benefit rates and the mass redundancies gathered momentum at exactly the same time. They knew what they were doing!
You Norfolk Traveller, have thrown the first stone.
patricia bremner +++ !
Perhaps.
But more likely I am reflecting public distaste of 20 years of deception, that seems to get worse with every new revelation.
No, you’re only showing the distaste of the psychopaths that made it inevitable that people would have to break the law just to survive.
Metiria didn’t have to, that is the entire point.
So, to be clear, you believe Turei when she says she fiddled the benefit, you just don’t believe her when she says why she did it?
I don’t believe much of what she says anymore. Thankfully the WINZ investigation will out her dishonesty, at least as far as any fraud is concerned. I bet she won;t go to jail though.
You don’t believe much of what she says anymore?
You used to believe what Metiria said?
Examples please, Norfolk Traveller, or we’ll take it as read that you’re not playing with a straight bat.
It’s a turn of phrase. I had no reason to mistrust her before. Now we have every reason. She lied to WINZ, repeatedly. She committed fraud for financial gain. What other evidence would you need?
So…wonky bat it is then, Norfolk Traveller; not that anyone thought otherwise. Condemn away, you sad fellow. Providing your condemnation once would seem to be enough, I suppose, but your continued campaign to drive home your doubtless valuable opinion reeks of righteousness and privilege, if you don’t mind my saying so. I do wonder at your insistence.
So you don’t understand that someone could have no reason to mis trust Metiria before finding out she was dodgy, and then change their mind afterward? Do you still trust her?
I am going to trust her with my vote. Sincerely, choke on it.
Don’t believe you, don’t trust your words, vote for Metiria?
Hell YES!
YES
YES
YES
YES
YES
YES
Gottit?
Yes I trust Metiria and her courage has persuaded me to vote Green.
So you trust a self confessed fraudster and liar? Then enjoy her company.
it’s better than yours, that’s for darn sure.
You don’t believe what she says because of what she said.
Funny how what you believe is the bit that conveniently enables you to disbelieve everything else she says.
I don’t believe what she says because she is self confessed liar.
which means you believed her when she claimed to be a liar in one instance.
If she isn’t a fraudster and liar, then she is a fool. I’ll leave it to you to decide which.
She’s certainly got your knickers in a twist. Quite good for a campaign.
I believe her when she says today that she lied 20 years ago. So she’s probably told the truth these days.
I don’t believe a damned word that you would say today, though.
I’ve been trying to think of a phrase that’s like the leftie, positive equivalent of a dog whistle. Turei spoke in a language that many people can hear and understand and appreciate but is driving a bunch of other people crazy.
Not a wolf whistle then. 🙂
a phrase
Frog whistle.
Frog whistle, 😆 that’ll do it I reckon.
She came clean, so you won’t believe anything she says?
You’re a fool.
Perhaps, if she’d maintained the deception, as so many of your tribe do, you’d back her?
I’m thinking, your ethics are diseased.
“She came clean, so you won’t believe anything she says?”
She didn’t ‘come clean’. She confessed to lying and fraud. There is more she didn’t admit to initially.
But to whom did she lie, and why? She has voluntarily confessed for sound reasons, and all you can do is scream. “What??? She LIED??? How Vile!!!” Letter of law stuff, you Pharisee.
She lied to WINZ. She most likely lied to the Law Society. She profited financially as a result. Are you comfortable with that?
Pharisees; they’re plague on decent folk, a plague on humanity.
But their sphincters! Medical marvels!
” Off with her head then……Yes…..off with her dastardly head ! ” Happy now…….No-Fuck-Trivia ?
I’m delighted I’m in the company of so many newcomers to party vote Green who will thereby articulate deep, deep disgust at the torture visited on so many.
Frequently in the course of my work I see people left, after rent, with $100 a week to meet ALL costs for a family comprised of a parent and three kids at school. It turns my guts. Particularly it turns my guts because were I to ask all those I come in contact with…….there would be uniformity in response.
You N-F-T are cut to the quick by Metiria’s ‘lie’. You have not the balls to openly applaud the $100 a week torture but you do effectively endorse it, at least by default. That’s why you too are gut turning. Piss off and prepare to meet some karma. Me, I’m off to vote !
“You have not the balls to openly applaud the $100 a week torture but you do effectively endorse it,”
This. A few have gone to ‘get a job’ bigotry (most notably Paddy Gower). But most are content to argue that there is no poverty therefore Turei is morally reprehensible, which conveniently means they don’t have to have their own morals examined.
I agree there is a degree of cowardice in this.
Sigh…
‘It has been astonishing to see the amount of time and energy being spent on what Greens co-leader Metiria Turei did or didn’t do properly as a beneficiary back in the early 1990s – as compared to how little time and energy is being put into the point of her personal example. Turei was citing her case in order to query whether much has changed – especially when it comes down to whether the current benefit levels and targeting rules at WINZ are helping or hindering today’s beneficiaries to escape from poverty.
Clearly, some people would prefer to re-litigate whether Turia can be retroactively held to account for lying to WINZ way back then. Sigh. Instead, maybe we should be asking for starters:
(i) whether current benefit levels are adequate to keep people and their children out of poverty
(ii) how pro-active WINZ staff are encouraged to be when advising people of their current entitlements, and what the take-up rates of those entitlements currently are
(iii) whether the current abatement levels at which added income is taxed are helping or hindering people to lift their families out of poverty
(iv) the extent to which the reported declines in those on benefits can be attributed to social and demographic changes eg in the declining numbers of sole parents
(v) what impact the Greens proposals on raising benefit levels and allowing for an abatement free zone of $200 on extra earned income would have, in helping people get out of poverty.’
http://werewolf.co.nz/2017/07/gordon-campbell-on-the-real-truth-deficit-in-welfare/
You make some good points. However Metiria only has herself to blame for the distraction from policy.
Turei has been talking poverty and the need for change for a long time now – most of the time, only a hand full of people have taken notice, with most preferring to foreground that economy focus of her male co-leader – and often referring to the male co-leader as THE GP leader.
What does it take for someone who grew up in a very low-income, working class household, and who knows personally the cost of living in such circumstances, to be taken seriously by a broad cross section of the media and population?
There’s no doubt that there is a section of the public that shares your opinion. After all, ~29% of the electorate voted for the National Party in 2014.
Still, that’s your echo chamber. Not many people here share your views. Not many people I’ve spoken with agree with you either. You’d be quite foolish to assume that it will hurt the Greens in September.
“After all, ~29% of the electorate voted for the National Party in 2014.”
Again, an obsession the government.
BTW, what was Labour’s number then? Or the Greens for that matter?
I think what we’ve seen over the past week is a rising up by ordinary NZ’ers against dishonesty, particularly by a high income Member of Parliament who has taken 20+years to come clean.
“I think what we’ve seen over the past week is a rising up by ordinary NZ’ers against dishonesty, particularly by a high income Member of Parliament”
Are you referring to Todd Barclay, NT? If so, we are in agreement. Barclay has received a flood of criticism for drawing his salary while spending his days in the Pig & Whistle. I’ve read comment after comment from you, condemning his actions…hang on!…
When did Todd Barclay commit fraud? I mean he’s a prat, but there’s no law against that.
Ah, Norfolk Traveller – you’d have us believe that Todd Barclay’s only fault is that “he’s a prat”?
Your attempt to reframe the “illegal taping scandal” as prattishness says so much about you and I bet I’m not alone here in recognising that.
Oh no, he’s more than a prat. But he’s out at the next election. Is Metiria going to resign for comitting fraud?
Did Todd Barclay resign, Norfolk Traveller?
Effectively, yes.
that would be effectively “no” then.
That’s a no, 4 shore. Hypocrite.
“that would be effectively “no” then.”
It is a yes. http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/06/live-updates-todd-barclay-recording-scandal.html.
except… no, he’s not resigning, is he.
He’s just not reapplying for the job, because he wouldn’t get it.
NT
Is wearing out my screen. And my patience. What would make him go away. Surely this is trolling. He is saying the same stuff over and over. Or is it a flame war. If so some bloke might put it out the primitive way. If only people would settle down and stop feeding the hyenas.
[All that aside. Did you get my previous note to you about using the log in name associated with your email address that you used to comment under? To repeat. I think it might stop you getting caught in ‘pending’ and also allow you to sign in to the site.] – Bill
what was Labour’s number then? Or the Greens for that matter?
Evidence that a decent proportion of the electorate doesn’t share your views.
No, come on. What was their number? How did it compare with the number you quoted for national? Come on, if they represent a ‘decent number’, let’s see that number and line them up.
You’re quite capable of doing that: it doesn’t support or undermine my point one way or t’other.
It’s just you talking outside your glass.
Oh but I’d like YOU to do it. What was the Labour and the Greens proportion? And if Labour + Greens was a ‘decent proportion’, how do you define the rest who are now in government? Come on now, you did half the sums.
It’s like the three ‘R’s: repetition repetition repetition.
We know that a proportion of the electorate equal to or less than 29% share your views (You’re an ACT follower, eh.)
Of the rest, it’s hard to say in this context: I think some Labour voters have been duped into dehumanising certain categories of beneficiaries, just as some National Party dupes might feel uncomfortable with the rhetoric.
Let’s say they cancel one another out.
I doubt many Greens buy into your cruel, disgusting, pathetic and utterly transparent dogma though.
Of the non-voters, who can say? That’s why I think “You’d be quite foolish to assume that it will hurt the Greens in September.”
Have a nice evening.
“Of the rest, it’s hard to say in this context…”
You’re a liar. You quoted a figure for National (although you gave no source). Why can’t you quote a figure for Labour and the Greens?
I’m a liar now am I? 😆
Get some manners trash.
60% of all renters are lepers because they need a government subsidy to afford their rent even if they aren’t on a core benefit and work full time.
Hope they remember that come voting day here in the benefit nation.
Further to this nationwide benefit dependency if the law of >i>not worsening your position were strictly applied most of these people would never go on holiday, gift money, etc etc. Just a thought.
I like to think that a percentage of LANDLORDS are lepers because they need Government support to keep their business charging at a rate the market can quite simply not afford.
+111
There’s quite a lot of businesses that would go out of business if they didn’t get either direct or indirect government subsidies.
All business in New Zealand relies on tax payer subsidies.
Even if it was only the rest of us paying for the owners primary and secondary education.
Almost all benefit from a lot more than that.
Police to keep their premises safe.
Roads to transport their goods.
Laws to regulate contracts.
An educated and healthy workforce.
Before we even go into WFF to enable them to underpay their workers.
State supplied training, MPI and export NZ help, irrigation schemes, research, ETS credits, and the many other tax payer funded supports for business, we supply.
Like tourism and, boy, do they whinge whinge when they get asked to pay for some of those services that they use:
But user-pays is fine if it’s the little people paying.
I am Ok for us to help NZ business, especially startups and innovative and sustainable business.
So long as the owners pay their way when they succeed. Including taxes and living wages.
Too many sell out or tax dodge.
Turei’s mistake…
Has been to not double down on the attack on WINZ. IMHO, admitting to fraud so as to put food on the table was a brilliant attack on the neoliberal weaponisation of social security. To be consistent, she should have refused to apologise for it, and say she could easily be a minister in charge of WINZ because she plan to make a bonfire of the cruelty and casual humiliation that pervades that department. She should have made it clear that she would, as minister, not simply administer WINZ but conduct a revolution within it. To all the white middle class hand wringers of the press she should have called them all hypocrites and agents of the establishments desire to punish the poor. She should have called them heartless animals aligned with the values of Bennett and English, and she feels sorry for the darkness in their hearts.
Instead, she made her statement then because the supplicant. Meekly and powerlessly she now awaits her Fate – a fate she fully accepts as deserving. Instead of explicitly refusing the rules of unjust law and boldly promising to tear them down, she has confessed like a supplicant before the tyrannical landlord as he adjudges the number of rabbits he thinks she has poached. In doing so, she has affirmed the neoliberal middle class values the underlay the cruel logic of WINZ, not mocked them like someone who is determined to change the rules of the game.
Turei may have thrown her dinner into the face of her neoliberal jailers, but psychologically and politically she has signalled she remains firmly in jail.
“meekly and powerlessly” – ha! You’ve not heard Metiria speak about this then. She’s taking the initiative here, framing the issue, forging the path. Metiria, “powerless”? I don’t think so.
” To be consistent, she should have refused to apologise for it, and say she could easily be a minister in charge of WINZ because she plan to make a bonfire of the cruelty and casual humiliation that pervades that department. She should have made it clear that she would, as minister, not simply administer WINZ but conduct a revolution within it”
Not sure where you’ve been but that’s pretty much exactly what she has said and done. She refused to apologise, she refused to say what she did was wrong, and the Greens intend to utterly change the culture of WINZ, not just rolling back the Bennett reforms but redressing the benefit cuts from 1990.
I think you are confusing that with the fact that she’s not doing macho politics. Let’s see what happens with doing it in a Māori woman’s way.
Please tell it like it is, she did not commit fraud to put food on her plate, she committed fraud so could play politics with her Mcgillicuddy serious party mates, by campaigning for free dung.
If she was so concerned about feeding her child, then why did she waste so much time on trivial things?
It’s called having a life. But we know that the bene-bigots don’t want poor people to feel good or enjoy their life or have fun. It’s not news.
Nobody is condoning cheating by supporting Metiria.
However, we are not prepared to condone a social security system that strips away all vestige of humanity in the way in which it is delivered or withheld.
Most of us have been fortunate enough to have had the helping hand of a parent to help us through the times when we have been down, felt worthless or needed a small injection of cash to get us over a thin spot. There are those in our society who are not so fortunate, whose family are not able to give this support for whatever reason. This is where WE, as a society, should provide this support in a manner that encourages, instils confidence, hope, connection to society and which provides real options for the future.
Sorry. But Metiria didn’t “side with the lepers”.
She essentially pulled the dirty veil from the eyes of “the normals” and handed it back to them so they could understand where the stink was coming from – that it wasn’t coming from any shadowy lepers they might have imagined by way of compensating for their occluded vision.
Some are still clinging to their stinking veil though, and insisting it smells of roses while denying it fits comfortably with (their) racist and sexist narratives (where) many beneficiaries are Māori, a violent and failed race who (have) consistently threatened New Zealand society; some beneficiaries (are) Pacific peoples, outsiders who (stand) at the barricades of white New Zealand trying to seize (their) riches and opportunities; many beneficiaries (are) single women, the promiscuous detritus of feminism (that’s) a threat to the proper New Zealand family
Nice cross post.
Just to add…
If you want to volunteer for the Green Party or for NZ Labour, then click on the highlighted text 😉
+111
Palindrome corner….
“REPEL A LEPER”
https://media.giphy.com/media/KpLS5KcBiJ6IE/giphy.gif
Hug a leper (Jesus did).
Indeed, Robert, but does that go both ways?
(I trust the weather in the Riviera of the South is as beautiful today as it is up here?)
Did they hug him back? Only if they had nothing to lose.
We’ve squally weather; sunshine/light rain/sunshine/light rain/sunshine.
I’m indoor/outdoor – TS/garden.
… like fingers?
[slinks off to corner in shame :)]
Have you read of the Matiu/Somes Island leper? There’s a sorry tale.
Where would I find that about Somes Island Robert? Have you got it handy or I’ll look it up. That’s off Wellington isn’t it.
I thought the island off Lyttelton had some sad cases too, kept separate in those days of gore, I mean yore.
On reflection, I would like to see Metiria prosecuted for her ‘fraud.’
Two reasons – First – it would keep the plight of the poor in the headlines right up to the election.
Second reason, I’d like to help group fund a civil prosecution of Binglish for the same
‘crime’ (only in his case it was a crime – motivated by greed).
There’s some perverse wisdom in that mate,… but I would hate to see Metiria being put through that sort of stress,… but then again,… it would highlight these neo liberal scum who have been defending the status quo for 3 decades .
And ALSO, highlight the sort of stress beneficiaries endure daily under this punitive govt in being thrown inside prison , outrageously fined and cast off their benefits.
What an ugly , ugly government this one is.
well that makes it ok then
A time to remember Wendy Shoebridge and the quota system for prosecuting beneficiaries.
“We had to get one prosecution per month. We had to get $30,000 of debt to be recovered per month,” a former MSD investigator told the inquest into the death of Wendy Shoebridge. “Four cases had to be cleared per month.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/87347930/aggressive-prosecution-focus-at-msd-preceded-womans-death-inquest-told
Maybe seeing a politician stand trial..and (cough) maybe seeing TWO politicians stand trial will highlight the sorry state of things where Wendys unnecassary and avoidable death did not,.
I count Metiria as a modern day political hero. She has had the guts to take on the liars narrative.
The Greens MUST , MUST , MUST be voted for by anyone on a benefit. There is no other option.
I will be voting for Labour this election to help provide a broad platform for a coalition government. And in doing so , will be helping to bring up the rear in regards to raising the minimum wage and working towards the beginnings of the Living Wage.
Globally , …The neo liberal dogma is dead.
It is time New Zealand followed suit.
I will be happy when I see three things happen :
1) The dismantling of the Employment Contracts Act and its euphemism – the Employment Relations Act.
2) Total and unapologetic rejection of both the ‘ Mother of all Budgets’ and its legacy as an unjust , inhumane and degrading precedent that still causes destruction in NZ’s population today.
3) Reserve Bank / Treasury put back under direct govt control and regulation , – with all the associated implications of a more regulated economy that goes along with that.
4) Labours plan to tax and / or fine corporate’s and multinationals that deliberately pay little to no taxation and fail to contribute proportionately and fairly to this country’s social infrastructure
[Duplicate removed] – Bill
Sorry bout the double post , – something wrong , think I punched a key when I shouldn’t have.
Either that or John Keys bloated GSCB is having their undemocratic fun again. All jokes aside,.. I wouldn’t put it past them. Or maybe its just the weather…
If a mod sees this could you please delete the first post and this one as well?
There’s no excuse for violence, but I’m sure that most of us have felt like punching a key once or twice in the last nine years… 🙂
If it’s about using more than your share of resources, as some people have suggested MT did, then we can give any number of examples of the greedy rich. Starting with the Cabinet Ministers, their expensive cars and extensive overseas travel.
‘Seeking truth from FACTS’.
How long has there been WINZ?
https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/about-msd/history/
1 October 1998 – Department of Work and Income (branded as Work and Income New Zealand or WINZ) established with the merger of Income Support with the New Zealand Employment Service, Community Employment Group and Local Employment Co-ordination.
________________________
So – what exactly was the LAW back in the days of Metiria Turei’s ‘benefit fraud’, regarding income from ‘flatmates’?
Back in the days of The Department of Social Welfare?
Did the LAW change under WINZ?
Anyone know?
Serious questions….
I’d imagine that since the principle act is from 1967 (or thereabouts) that nothing much changed. I guess you could look up amendments enacted in the 90s if you can be arsed.
edit – The Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill
The Social Security Legislation Rewrite Bill was introduced into Parliament for consideration on Thursday 17 March 2016.
At 28 April 2017, the Bill is awaiting its second reading. With the time available, it’s unlikey that the Bill will be passed into law in 2017 and allow sufficient time for implementation.
Any proposed changes, because of the Bill, eg tidying up the legislation, modernising the layout of the Act, changing of names of a couple of Benefits will not happen this year.
Is bnz happy to be associated with Mike Hosking’s Metiria’s backing liars vitriol?
In fact is bnz happy to be associated with Mike Hosking?
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/video/mikes-minute-metirias-backing-liars/
In the late 80’s I got my girlfriend pregnant, we were both 17. At that time many people in our situation cheated the system, usually by the mother going on the solo benefit, the dad would go on the dole, and then they’d live together anyway.
We chose to both go on the dole, which was only maybe fifty bucks more than the solo benefit, because it was a crime to cheat the system, and no bones were made about it at that time either. Plus it was a matter of pride – it was bad enough being a dole bludger without being a benefit cheat as well.
In the end I wound up bringing up my daughter on my own. I’m now in my mid forties and have a successful career behind me, own two houses etc… And I’m still owed 13 years of child support btw.
At that time I knew a lot of people in the same situation as us who thought that the country owed them a living because they had chosen to breed and then keep the baby, and they also arrogantly and childishly thought that it was their right to rip the system off. I don’t know if it’s the same now, but I have no reason to think that’s it’s changed.
We managed without needing to rort the system, why was she different?
To now make out that her crime was one of necessity, and is also some kind of badge of honour makes my blood boil, and surely shows how morally and ethically bereft she is. It’s nothing less than insult to all the honest kiwis past and present who kept within the rules and tried their best. She should hang her head in shame, preferably while tendering her resignation.
And The Toad of Nazareth said:
“Wait! I have found the one who should cast the first stone, and his name is Jay!”
Let us rejoice.
For Norfolk Traveller and Jay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk
L0L0L0L0L !!!!
So, each of you got the dole in the 1980s. That was before Ruth Richardson changed the rules of eligibility and slashed the Benefits. Together, you would have received from the State close to double the amount that two people in the same situation would have received 5 years later. In other words you didn’t have to cheat because you had enough to live on.
Either you are very stupid or you are dishonest. You should hang your head in shame you charlatan.
So everyone committed benefit fraud at the time she was on a benefit then? Or stole? Or sold drugs maybe? Otherwise I imagine there would have been alarming stories of people starving to death after the cuts which were apparently not conducive to life. My daughter was born in March 1990. When were the cuts? Cause we were on and off a benefit til she was about three and a half.
I’m sorry if I don’t fit your narrative as someone who got off a benefit and who was fairly successful financially, but I’ve been there so, like it or not, I can speak with authority.
And I’m willing to bet there are plenty more like me who are outraged, not about what she did, but about her justification for it. Could she maybe have taken a part time job instead of running for parliament? What a joke. It’s totally indefensible, and in 8 weeks we’ll know whether or not it was disastrous politically.
You imagine poorly. For example, The Lancet documented the increased rate of preventable infectious disease admissions to New Zealand hospitals at the time.
The IMF documented the decreased economic activity.
The OECD compared us unfavourably with other nations.
The Salvation Army picked up some of the pieces.
Pop goes the weasel.
We bask in the blinding light of your outrage, Jay, bless you!
I recommend you view this film.
It may help you gain a better understanding of the issues.
Ken Loach is being interviewed by Kim Hill this Saturday. I recommend you listen to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4KbJLpu7yo
Do you think running for parliament is a hobby, is easy? People like Metiria are trying to get a place amongst the comfortable wealthy so that ordinary people can be represented. Like you Jay.
You are so ordinary, because you think you are. You have little pride in yourself, no ability to stand up and say I’m alive and I’m important, and more than that I’m a trier and a sticker and not a giver-upper. But you are too low to then say I deserve better opportunities, and so do the people around me who are the same.
You are embarrassed to be connected to people who do dare to ask for more, and scurry behind your excuse of finding fault with the way that Metiria managed in difficult times trying to get a better position, a decent job as a lawyer, an understanding of the law and its effects. Instead you are cutting her down because she has made good, better than you, and you don’t think it is fair because she had determination and audacity.
She reflects the meaning of the saying ‘That if you keep doing the same things, you get the same results.’ So she did something different and broke the mould. And is up there fighting for people like you who put up with being trodden on. Because Metiria highlights the many people who haven’t an idea that they deserve better, and have resigned themselves to the low status allocated to them.
“fraud” is irrelevant this was a courageous (in a NZ way, we are ,after all pretty gutless addressing social issues) political move. I salute her.
I might even donate to her party ,if they let me.
Apparently one cannot donate to the Greens unless one lives i a suburb.
I live in some 2.5 ha of greenery, definitely not suburbia, Greens send me emails seeking donations.
Meteiria has mana. Kia Kaha!
Yikes, credit card payments only too. They normally have a bank account for setting up regular payments, I’ll see if I can track it down.
Why do you all answer Norfolk Traveller? A great cause, and a small mind.
Fantastic post. The right wingers commenting have demonstrated the truth of the post beautifully.
Such amazing focus on the sins of the poor, while happy to completely ignore the sins of the millionaires and billionaires holding nearly all the wealth of the country, watching others suffer.
I do hope Green politicians challenge those media willing to cast stones.
Maybe in a live interview when Garner, Hosking and Espiner don’t have control of the narrative.
Maybe ask them a direct question.
Have you ever paid for a cash job?
Have you ever broken the law?
I’m sure there are better questions that can be thought up.
The left must challenge, ridicule and confront the corporate media.
Garner, Hosking and Espiner are stealing from us.
Every time they accept money, for masquerading as Journalists.