web analytics

Sales pitch

Written By: - Date published: 9:33 am, August 26th, 2008 - 59 comments
Categories: same old national, transport - Tags: , , , ,

He just doesn’t give up does he? Maurice Williamson was spotted this morning still trying to sell his toll booth idea to Auckland motorists. Spy photos below.

59 comments on “Sales pitch ”

  1. coge 1

    I don’t get it. Is this an attempt at self employment?

  2. sweetd 2

    I don’t see the authorising statment on that?

  3. sweetd – satire is excluded from the EFA. And, we don’t end statements with question marks.

    ayb – I was literally seconds away from posting my bit from the same photos. Funny thing is, of the 3 dozen photos we were sent I had chosen the top one as well for my post. Your text is better than mine though.

  4. higherstandard 4

    Wonder what the people sitting in traffic thought ?

  5. HS. some of the other photos have people in cars waving or smiling.. the joker rang me up this morning and said it was a pretty positive feel.

  6. Ha. Very good.

    But, Steve, can you please explain how satire such as this is exempt from the EFA?

    I assume the above election advertisement was put together by a Labour Party member or supporter (of course it’s hard to tell without an authorisation!). Does this mean that any election advertisement or campaign using signage put out by National, Act (or their supporters) is exempt if they use humour?

    Bryce
    http://www.liberation.org.nz

  7. Bryce, I think you’re taking a leap to assume it’s a Labour person or supporter. ‘It’s anti-national, so the person must be pro Labour’ Is that the kind of logic you would employ writing an academic work?

    In fact, i’ve just got a text from a labour activist who recognised the person and says he’s not Labour, despite the acitivist’s attempt to sign him up.

    The Tui billboards are exempt because they are satire, this looks like satire too and, if it is, it is exempt. If not, its in technical breach, just like all those Sensible Sentencing marchers etc etc.

    It’s your right to get your knickers in a twist over technical breachs of the law if you like. Why not take it to the EC and waste their time too?

  8. Anita 8

    SP,

    I know I’m about to look stupid, but… 🙂

    Which bit of the EFA exempts satire?

  9. anita. s5(2)(c) http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2007/0111/latest/DLM1092853.html

    “solely for the purpose of informing, enlightening, or entertaining its audience”

    of course, in this case, the quetion would be around ‘solely’ and to be fair it probably is an electoral advertisement but honestly, its a guy in a carboard box with a mask on – the purpose of the Act is to stop secret parallel campaigning, not street theatre… minor breaches of all laws happen all the time and no-one cares because laws aren’t there to punish minor breaches, they’re about the significant stuff.

  10. Well Steve, my point about it being a National supporter was a parody of you!

    You (and Labour in general) have argued that the Exclusive Brethren anti-Labour pamphlets were logically pro-National and should have counted towards the National Party’s expenditure cap. Of course we can’t assume that the activist is acting on behalf of Labour. And attempts to do so often lack logic.

    But there is of course a serious issue about so-called “technical breaches” of the EFA. And I pointed this out in my above comment. If you are so keen on allowing humour to be exempt from requiring authorisation or counting towards a party’s election spending cap, then that’s a very slippery slope you’re heading towards, and you’re thus advocating yet another loop-hole for parties with wealth to be able to use that wealth unregulated.

    Bryce
    http://www.liberation.org.nz

  11. Steve – it’s good to see you finally come to your senses and see that such political stunts do actually fall foul of your EFA.

    And the problem is that you’ve set up all these very grey areas whereby you say you can judge between some sort of legitimate “technical breaches” and “significant stuff”.

    I think you’ll find that increasingly it’d be hard for even you to draw the line between what is just “street theatre” and “parallel campaigns”. As far I can see, your way of determining this is likely to be: anti-National / pro-Labour minor breaches are OK; anti-Labour / pro-National breaches are parallel campaigning.

    Bryce
    http://www.liberation.org.nz

  12. george 12

    Its not a question of EFA,its one of nationals secrete agenda’s.
    Tolling being one of many.The truth always comes out and yet again from a national source.

  13. Felix 13

    It’s strange but when someone links to their own website in comments on someone else’s website I semi-consciously make a point of not visiting that site, ever.

    I wonder if others have a similar reaction.

  14. The Jester 14

    Wealth?

    How much do you think was actually spent on such a prank?

    Also, who is to say this activist acted alone, and was purely in it to tell National he was not happy to pay $50 a week in tolls to cross the bridge (or where ever the tolls will be)?

  15. Anita 15

    SP,

    I didn’t think there was an exemption for satire (or at least couldn’t remember seeing one). I think the test probably looks like this

    funny solely for the purpose of being funny – not an election expense

    funny for the purpose of persuading voters to vote or not vote … – an election expense.

    funny solely for the purpose of selling something unrelated – not an election expense

    So he’s bound by the unregistered cap and the requirement for a promoter statement, but no drama.

  16. principessa 16

    Personally- I like his moxy. and his point.

  17. Anita 17

    lprent, I miss a functioning edit 🙁 Can we have a preview until edit cheers up?

    everyone else, add “solely” to my 1st and 3rd italicised paras in your head 🙂

    [lprent: I’ll look at it as soon as I get some time. But for some reason my free time is a bit constrained because of the election. In the meantime – why not just try another browser. I’m not getting problems in firefox http://www.mozilla.com In the meantime I’ve adjusted your comment to try and get your intent ]

  18. yl 18

    haha Felix,

    I agree, it is shameless self promoting haha. Considering there is already a link through the nickname tut tut.

    Anyway, as i watched agenda on Sunday i commented that it was nice to see the National party honest about there intentions. It has been rare for them as they have tried to hide there unpopular true intentions, as they are running there campaign on ‘say what ever it takes to get into power’ attitude. And swallowing a few dead rats along the way.

    Then, Monday morning, low and behold, Billy is on Morning report saying that his transport spokesperson misspoke.

    People have often said that this election is the National parties to lose, they seem to be doing a great job of that.

    Captcha – Hazard

  19. Tim Ellis 19

    There isn’t an exemption for satire. The question is whether a statement seeks to persuade voters to vote for or against a political party or candidate. It’s hard to see how a Tui billboard would seek to do this. It is clear that when somebody paints up a mock toll booth, dons a Maurice Williamson mask, stands in front of rush hour traffic, gets his mate to take photos of it, and sends these photos to the Standard to be published, then this is a political stunt. The message is clearly designed to persuade voters not to vote for the National Party.

    Political stunts like this are exactly the kind of activities that are covered by the EFA and require promoters’ statements. Just because the person is anonymous and it might be hard for the police to investigate who is behind it doesn’t change the fact that the very same group of left wing activists who defended the passing of the EFA are now going about and breaking it.

  20. Draco TB 20

    I’d call this an election advertisement as defined by the EFA. It has National written on it. In context it is obviously an encouragement to not vote National.

  21. Matthew Pilott 21

    …it doesn’t change the fact that the very same group of left wing activists who defended the passing of the EFA are now going about and breaking it.

    Bollocks. Are you going to prove that the guy in the box defended passing of the EFA? Or that putting those pictures here are breaking the EFA? Or are you blatantly lying…

  22. lprent 22

    Ummm. I think the key point (I wish Key could make some as cogent as the satire above) is

    Does the person intend to spend more than 10k doing electioneering?

    If they don’t, then I don’t think that any provision of the EFA applies. Doesn’t look like a particularly expensive billboard to me (the toll one not the tui one).

  23. Pascal's bookie 23

    “In context it is obviously an encouragement to not vote National.”

    Draco, that’s just because you’re biiiiased. 😉

    I was reading just last night, over at the ‘writeups’ blog, which is golden, the following:

    I envisage a blissful future where outside every town and city in New Zealand there are massive toolbooths where we can pay our tolls to a Macquarie Bank subsidiary safe in the knowledge that to maintain their profits they are going to look after the roads a hell of a lot better than a government department and be constantly investing in new roading infrastructure in an environment where companies are free to respond to the market and where the Resource Management Act doesn’t hold them back because they can deal with the externalities privately.

    http://writeups.co.nz/

    As far as I can tell, that post is not satire.

    It would seem on the face of it that this man could be our masked stranger. I doubt it, but it could be. Clearly though he would find this stunt an encouragement to vote for the Nat’s.

    Certainly you could argue that Mr Writeups is a libertarian, and that therefore a ‘reasonable person’ test would exclude his opinions, but….

    …yeah ok, it’s probably an ad under the act. Any argument that relies on ‘what would an Objectivist say’ is automatic fail.

  24. Edosan 24

    Steve:

    “solely for the purpose of informing, enlightening, or entertaining its audience’

    Isn’t that just for radio and television programmes?

    Otherwise, what was all that Tui billboard fiasco about?

  25. Felix 25

    Edosan,

    I think I must have missed the “Tui billboard fiasco” so forgive me if I’m way off, but I would view the Tui billboards as being a slightly different kettle of fish as they’re primarily a commercial advertising a product.

  26. sweetd 26

    Felix, Tui billboard in Tauranga, “when Winston says no, he means no. Yeah right”.

  27. Felix 27

    I see. So what would be the difference if it were a tv ad rather than a billboard ad?

  28. Phil 28

    Whoever the prankster is, they clearly know f*ck all about design. The text is inconsistent, and the dark-writing-on-dark-background is a big no-no.

    If s/he going to take the time out of her/his day to make a statement, at least do it with some artistic flair…

  29. Tim Ellis 29

    LP, I may have this wrong but as I understand it the EFA says that anybody who makes an election advertisement, for or against a candidate or party, must have a promoter’s statement, irrespective of the cost. The cost issue seems to go to whether the third party must register with the electoral commission, in which case it is illegal.

    Matthew you are perfectly capable of engaging in constructive debate with people without resorting to calling them liars. Can I prove this person defended the EFA? No, of course not. Do I even know who this person is? Again, no idea and I don’t care. Do I honestly believe this person is almost certainly a Labour Party activist? Yes.

    This was a political stunt. It wasn’t street theatre or performance art. I think that anybody who says that a guy with no political affiliations decided as an act of theatre, to create this stunt, and that somebody magically walked by with a camera, took photos, and sent those photos immediately to the Standard, the very morning after the news broke… Come now, just because the evidence is circumstantial doesn’t mean a jury wouldn’t convict on it.

    So I don’t think I’m being unreasonable in assuming this is a Labour Party activist behind this stunt. Next, you ask whether I have any evidence that this person personally defended the EFA. No I don’t, and I don’t think I need to have evidence. I said that the same people who defended the EFA (i.e., the Labour Party, the Greens, NZ First, Progressives) are the ones going around and breaking it. Because I firmly believe this stunt was not the spontaneous act of an individual, but a coordinated stunt by a group of people with connections to the Labour Party. Were they instructed by Helen Clark to do this? Hell, I don’t know, probably not. Were they under the direction of the Labour leadership or strategy team? Probably not.

    But I don’t think I’m making an unreasonable leap here. Nicky Hager would write a whole conspiracy book on much looser circumstance.

  30. Phil 30

    … and they couldn’t even be arsed properly painting over the labels on the box!

  31. principessa 31

    Phil- paint takes time to dry.

  32. Felix 32

    Tim could you conceive of the person behind the mask being a green party supporter?

  33. Savage 33

    Links to the Labour Party? Its not only the Labour Party that thinks that Maurice is a plonker. It could be an upset National supporter, NZ First, The Greens or absolutely anyone. I’m sure the list of suspects could read like the electoral roll.

    I’m also suspicious about possible links to Al Qaeda.

  34. Edosan 34

    Felix:

    Actually, it’s only for TV and Radio shows, adverts are excluded, that there seems to be a caveat for satire. All advertisements on any medium that create the impression that you should or should not vote for a party or candidate seem to be classed as political ads.

    I just pointed that out to say that in this instance, there is no exclusion for satire that Steve claimed.

  35. Rocket Boy 35

    ‘I’d call this an election advertisement as defined by the EFA. It has National written on it. In context it is obviously an encouragement to not vote National.’

    How is this an encouragement not to vote National? Maurice Williamson was on Agenda bursting out of his skin with enthusiasm about toll roads and how people would be happy to pay $50 per week for a quicker ride to work.

    This guy is getting the message out for Maurice and it should be counted as a pro National Party ad.

  36. lprent 36

    TE: You could be correct – I don’t know enough for certain. My memory from earlier in the year was that you didn’t have to put authorizing statements unless you were going beyond the cost limits. Someone can probably clarify.

    This site is covered by the specific exclusion for blogs in the EFA and because each poster does their posts individually. I must have a look to see if a decision by the electoral commission has been made on the subject of multi-poster blogs yet. However it only costs $160/month and everyones spare time – in my case right now time while I wait for this [expletive deleted] code to compile in gcc on linux in a VirtualBox.

    [update: Looks like the complaints by various people are still awaiting legal advice. http://www.elections.org.nz/news/ ]

  37. Matthew Pilott 37

    Tim, your detailed and explanation and multiple disclaimers make that sentence make some sense (although I really challenge your assumptions), but at the end of the day if you’re going to use throwaway lines like that with no context you get the response such lines deserve.

    Instead of “” it doesn’t change the fact that the very same group of left wing activists who defended the passing of the EFA are now going about and breaking it.’

    You’ve gone with: I assume that this person is a Labour activist because I can’t believe that anyone who doesn’t like National might dislike the for a reason apart from support of Labour.

    Furthermore, I believe that the Labour Party is a singluar and monolithic entity, and that if the Party supports something, each and every member, activist, voter and person who has had a left-wing thought must wholeheartedly support said idea.

    Furthermore, it is impossible to concieve that someone would paint a box blue, without the collusion of levels of the Labour party that were responsible for the advent of the EFA.

    Thus, the man in a blue box is an EFA supporter and secretive colluder with multiple Labour Party contacts.

    Pity the photo isn’t in high def, you’d se H1’s phone number in his pocket I reckon.

    Not a big leap? I don’t know which is worse, making a careless throwaway line (which could be construed as insisting that those involved with this site supported the EFA but are happy to break it), or constructing a detailed and solidly thought through assessment that has less credibility than the first.

    Either way, it’s not a sensible comment to make.

  38. Edosan 38

    it’s also important to realise that intent doesn’t matter, only the impression that it creates. therefore even if this guy wasn’t intending to turn voters off National it clearly could create the impression that he was.

  39. The Jester 39

    Good point Rocket Boy

    I don’t see why it couldn’t quite easily be a pro National supported. It does not defame National in any way. It is merely a way of actually promoting what Maurice was talking about on Agenda.

  40. coge 40

    OK, I think I understand know. The guy in the blue box is a product of the knowledge economy.

  41. BTW – The only reason why National is perceived as having a “secret” agenda is that; everytime it is caught telling the truth, it denies it.

    However, Maurice should at least be commended on this point. At least he, unlike the rest of National, has enough courage to also care about the issue of toll booths, rather than just voting booths.

  42. Jasper 42

    I’ve been told that the EFA is the reason that Facelift isn’t on this year due to the confusion around satire and non ridiculisation of Politicians.

    Shame… at least pranks like this go some way to lightening the political environment.

    BTW: On facelift, anyone seen ‘Dead Ringers’ on UKTV? Hilarious.

    and on another note, my captcha said “Public Muzzle”

    coincidence?

  43. Tim Ellis 43

    Interesting points, Matthew, and I used hyperbole, as no doubt you often do, in leaping to my conclusions that the failure to have a promoter’s statement was illegal under the EFA, and that it was a labour party activist involved in the stunt, rather than an activist from any other political party, or merely a street theatre artist. The fact that it happened the day after it was the issue for the government, had a photographer ready to take the pictures, and arrived with the Standard within minutes of it taking place, says to me it was a coordinated effort with a genuine political motive, most likely to be connected to the Labour Party.

    I don’t ask you to agree with that assumption, although in stating it I do expect that many people, particularly from the right, would assume that it’s reasonable. But it raises an interesting issue as to what political parties should take responsibility for. I will try to be concise, and I’m not always good at it.

    Let’s say a small group of enthusiastic National Party supporters decide on their own that they’re going to run an attack campaign against Helen Clark. The senior National Party finds out about who the people are, their connections to the National Party, and wink wink, the senior party does nothing about it. Should the National Party take responsibility for that? Because that sounds a lot like what happened to the exclusive brethren saga a few years ago. I think the Nats were stupidly naive to do anything other than nip it in the bud, if they had the authority to do so. The fact they didn’t was a big failure and caused a lot of embarrassment and cost National probably two or three percent in the polls. It probably lost the Nats the election. So you would say, yes, on that basis, National should take responsibility for not distancing themselves from the EBs at the outset.

    It’s my view that National should take responsiblity, and has taken responsibility, for the EBs conduct in 2005. They paid the price for it electorally. Do you think by the same measure that the Labour Party should take responsibility for the actions of over-enthusiastic members, supporters, and officers breaking the law as well?

    I don’t like to put words in people’s mouths, but you can argue, yes, but there’s no evidence that the person here was a Labour Party activist. That’s true. There isn’t. Not yet. But there wasn’t immediately any evidence of real connections between National and the EBs last time, either. That only came out after some time. The EBs initially misled about who they were. Labour and the Greens didn’t believe the EBs responses then, because they were deliberately being obscure about their identity.

    Isn’t it the case that two of the key purposes of the electoral finance act is to identify who is funding whom and who is campaigning on behalf of whom, rather than running secretive, anonymous campaigns? And if there is a duty for National to take responsibility for everyone campaigning on their behalf, isn’t there also a duty for the Labour Party to establish that these people are not part of them, rather than simply saying they don’t know who the people involved are? Furthermore, haven’t the admissions from various young Labour activists that they know who the people behind stunts like this, and the secret recordings, are, suggest that it would be very easy for Labour to find out if it is one of their own?

    I think after the EBs fiasco last time, it just isn’t credible anymore for a political party to say they don’t know if any secret, parallel campaigning has any links to them, because they haven’t inquired. I think political parties have a duty to make those inquiries, particularly when it’s clear that those campaigns are going on.

    I’m not saying that standing on a busy road with effectively a “don’t vote National” sign around your neck is of the level of what the exclusive brethren did in 2005. But that isn’t the point. The point is that the EFA specifically outlaws anybody from engaging in anonymous campaigning like this, and sets the bar at zero. It wouldn’t be hard for the Standard to independently verify, through its close Labour Party connections, whether this person is a Labour Party activist. If I read what SP says above, instead he’s repeated an anonymous third party source saying that the person isn’t a financial member. In my mind, that isn’t an adequate response.

  44. george 44

    I am dumbfounded.A person standing on the side of the road wearing a box is now likened to the exclusive bretheren 1.5 million dollar campaign.
    The issue here is NOT the efa it is Nationals SECRETE agenda.Tolling is a BIG issue.I don’t know about you but having to spend $50 dollars a week plus based on Nationals spokesperson on transport ,makes a real problem for me.Is anyone going to debate that?

  45. Anita 45

    Tim Ellis,

    Many thoughts!! 🙂

    1) I’m never sure why the left is seen as a cohesive group. Many, for example, are not connected with Labour, don’t support Labour, are deeply disappointed in Labour, and believe that the only thing worse than a Labour led government is a National led government.

    2) If some people decide to set up a small group to campaign on the election and all or some are members of a political party (or some other group) that doesn’t mean their campaign is a part of that party’s (or group’s) campaign. There are issues here of whether it is a separate campaign, but it’s not necessarily the same campaign.

    3) The EFA allows 3rd parties to campaign for or against parties or candidates. Those campaigns are not (and must not be) co-ordinated by or with the party or candidate, and the party or candidate has no responsibility for them.

    4) Even if we believe the National Party line on the Exclusive Brethren, it still hurt them. It is entirely possible a bunch of young enthusiastic lefties could run a pro Labour/Green/Progressive/Alliance/Workers’ Party campaign which would hurt one or more of those parties. Such is life. That doesn’t mean the party gets to control the radical group, but it does get to be nervous about it 🙂

    5) The EFA is about transparency, of money and voice. If the man in the cardboard box had stuck something on his box to say who he was (or who one of his mates’ was if they were willing to take responsibility for him) then we’d be sweet; his campaign would be transparent, he would be standing up for something he believes in.

    6) NZ is small, but it’s not that small. The man in the box may belong to one of the same organisations as me, he might even be related to me, but I have no idea who he is – it would take some effort for me to find out who he is, and I have no desire to do so. Why should SP? Or anyone at The Standard? Or anyone at the Labour Party?

    7) I think it’s very very cool that some guy somewhere (and his mate with the camera) are actually doing something. If more people acted on what they believe in (and comments in blogs really don’t count) we would be a much better country.

  46. Bill 46

    Getting cars off the road = good thing.

    On that premise, a $50 toll would work wonders. If a worker doesn’t want to wear the $50, then s/he can of course demand the $50 from their employer during collective bargaining as a ring fenced claim apart from pay negotiations. Then catch the bus and save a packet!

    More seriously, whenever a move is made away from individualised transport, it is the poorer who are going to be whacked first. There WILL be a two tier transport system before too long.

    And avoidance/denial as in toothache and dentist will not change the outcome.

    So toll charges simply result in the inevitable arriving sooner rather than later.

  47. Anita 47

    george,

    I think likening people to the Exclusive Brethren is the new black. One of my happiest moments of last year was being likening to the Exclusive Brethren in parliament 🙂

    (I should say that one of the reasons for my joy is that it reminded me of the strength and courage of one of my great grandmothers, who is the reason I’m not EB. It reminded me that individuals have enormous power to bring about change).

  48. Dean 48

    SP:

    “It’s your right to get your knickers in a twist over technical breachs of the law if you like. Why not take it to the EC and waste their time too?”

    Love your work. If at first they bring up a point you find hard to defend, seeek to denegrate and humiliate them. Don’t ever address his point – that is to say, if someone believes it’s all in humour then it’s exempt from the EFA – let’s just point fingers and laugh like a child in a preschool.

    In your opinion, is Bryce a chinless scarf wearer? Is he in fact a hater and/or a wrecker?

    captcha: “the apology”. Oh, only if it were so.

  49. Quoth the Raven 49

    Does anybody know if Jasper is right about Facelift?

  50. lprent 50

    Tim Ellis:

    And if there is a duty for National to take responsibility for everyone campaigning on their behalf, isn’t there also a duty for the Labour Party to establish that these people are not part of them, rather than simply saying they don’t know who the people involved are?

    Wrong from what I understand.

    There is no such requirement for parties to be responsible for 3rd parties. It is the 3rd parties that are responsible to the EC/police.

    There is a requirement for the parties to govern their own activities and of their people doing it as part of the organization. Effectively if the ‘party’ is in effective control of the activities or is paying for the activities.

    It has no real control of members acting of their own accord and not as part of the parties activities. Therefore it is not responsible for them. This is in exactly the same manner that I’m a member of southern cross, but they are not responsible for my political activities.

    There is a requirement for the people acting as a 3rd party in the election to comply with the ERA or face prosecution.

    If however, the EC decides that a 3rd party is effectively acting as part of, or directly on behalf of party – then they can add the allocation to the parties election expenses. Bearing in mind the level of collusion between the EB and the Nat’s last election this might have been the case if it was repeated this election.

    However there are a number of exemptions, in particular for news media and blogs. This is there to allow free and fair comment.

    Basically you’re incorrect. There is no requirement for either party to be responsible for activists unless they are directly acting on the parties behalf and under their control. It is actually the Electoral Commissions responsibility or police, (and ultimately the courts on charging or appeal) to make those determinations. They will do so after they receive a complaint.

  51. Andrew 51

    I think some people are missing the point. User pays is exactly that. If you dont want to pay the toll, then drive on the old road. All the old existing roads will be toll free. If you want to drive on the shiney new expressway, then you will have to pay for that privilige.

    As it is, with the 10c petrol tax, everyone in the auckland area pays the same whether they use the roads or not. So the masses pay for the few that use the roads. That’s not very fair now is it?

    Living in england i do a lot of driving around europe. France has thousands of miles of toll roads and they are marvelous! you pay 3 – 10 euros (depending on the length) and you get to travel at 130kph with no police to be seen anywhere, and you get to where you are going in half the time. A month ago i did 2,500 miles around france in 10 days, some times we used the slow roads, sometimes the toll roads.

    Not that it will happen in my lifetime but wouldn’t it be nice to have a 4 lane expressway from auckland to wellington (as well as SH1 for people that didnt want to pay). This would NEVER happen if we had only tax revenue to pay for roading. Just because Maurice said that ‘some’ people would be prepared to pay up to $50 a week to drive on toll roads, didnt mean that he implied that ALL people will have to pay $50 to drive on roads.

    Labour is (or was) scoping out public opinion for a $6 a day congestion charge for driving in Aucklnd. After living in London for 4 years i would say stay well away from that! It costs £8 pounds a day to drive in London and the congestion is just as bad as before it was introduced. The congestion has just moved from the center of town to outside the zone. It’s great at producing revenue though.

    It’s just another spin campain from Labour to frighten people that are not smart enough to think for themselves. Even Labour are looking seriously at PPP’s and the use of toll roads, where is the vast media hysteria on that headline?!?!?

  52. The Jester 52

    Do you really think people are going to be happy to drive through Greenhithe to get to work in the mornings form the shore? From what I understand there are discussions around tolling both the harbour bridge and an underground tunnel. Where is my other option if I live on the shore?
    And let’s also remember there are a lot of jobs out there where a car is actually a necessity of a job, and has to be taken to work every day.

  53. Phil 53

    “And let’s also remember there are a lot of jobs out there where a car is actually a necessity of a job, and has to be taken to work every day.”

    Then it would be paid for by the employer?

  54. lprent 54

    Andrew:

    User pays is exactly that. If you dont want to pay the toll, then drive on the old road.

    Wrong – I think you haven’t read Maurice’s comments. Try Granny Herald.

    Asked about a statement he made on Television One’s Agenda programme that tolls would be imposed only on new roads, he said exceptions might be needed for projects such as another Waitemata Harbour crossing.

    Charging tolls on a tunnel under the harbour while keeping the harbour bridge toll-free would lead to a “dreadful distortion” in traffic, against which he believed even Labour would make an exception.

    In effect what he is saying is that there will be PPP’s or tolls that are not viable unless everyone pays. In which case why bother with the tolls? It will be simpler and cheaper to just get the funding with regional or national taxation.

    Incidentally, this has been the effect of PPP’s elsewhere that I’ve looked at. They usually require that alternate access routes are also ‘blocked’ to be viable or the taxpayers wind up paying through those interesting codicils.

  55. Edosan 55

    Quoth: Facelift isn’t an advertisement, so I really doubt it. Read the exceptions on the link Steve provided.

  56. lukas 56

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/4669955a6160.html

    ahhh irony

    captcha- embossing shipley- what’s she got to do with this?

  57. The Jester 57

    Phil – I would hope it was paid for by the employer….I can’t imagine them all jumping at the opportunity to give their employees more money. It would turn all employers against the tolling idea if they had to fork out more money (potentially $2600/yr) for their employees.

  58. george 58

    Lucas
    What is the irony?National voted against ppp in the house.What is important is that national has yet again kicked their own spokesman for telling the truth.There is transparency as regards tolls from labour as you can see with the Pohoi extension.Get with the game.Truth will always out.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government to review housing settings
    New Zealand’s stronger-than-expected economic performance has flowed through to housing demand, so the Government will review housing settings to improve access to the market, the Finance Minister Grant Robertson announced today. “Our focus is on improving access to the housing market for first home buyers and ensuring house price growth ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Crown accounts reflect Govt’s careful economic management
    The better-than-expected Crown accounts released today show the Government’s careful management of the COVID-19 health crisis was the right approach to support the economy. As expected, the Crown accounts for the year to June 2020 show the operating balance before gains and losses, or OBEGAL, was in deficit. However that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Community launch marks next step in addressing racism in education
    The launch of Te Hurihanganui in Porirua today is another important milestone in the work needed to address racism in the education system and improve outcomes for Māori learners and their whānau, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis says. Budget 2019 included $42 million over three years to put Te Hurihanganui ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Government to consider recommendations on DNA use in criminal investigations
    The Minister of Justice has received the Law Commission’s recommending changes to the law governing the way DNA is used in criminal investigations. The report, called The Use of DNA in Criminal Investigations – Te Whahamahi I te Ira Tangata I ngā Mātai Taihara, recommends new legislation to address how ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Speech to Wakatū Nelson regional hui on trade
    First, I want to express my thanks to Te Taumata for this hui and for all the fantastic work you are doing for Māori in the trade space. In the short time that you’ve been operating you’ve already contributed an enormous amount to the conversation, and developed impressive networks.  I ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Speech to Primary Industries Summit
    Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about the significant contribution the food and fibres sector makes to New Zealand and how this Government is supporting that effort. I’d like to start by acknowledging our co-Chairs, Terry Copeland and Mavis Mullins, my colleague, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Fast track referrals will speed up recovery and boost jobs and home building
    The Government is taking action to increase jobs, speed up the economic recovery and build houses by putting three more projects through its fast track approval process. “It’s great to see that the fast-track consenting process is working. Today we have referred a mix of potential projects that, if approved, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Papakāinga provides critically needed homes in Hastings
    A papakāinga opened today by the Minister for Māori Development the Hon Willie Jackson will provide whānau with much needed affordable rental homes in Hastings. The four home papakāinga in Waiōhiki is the first project to be completed under the ‘Hastings Place Based’ initiative. This initiative is a Government, Hastings ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand ready to host APEC virtually
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern took over the leadership of APEC earlier today, when she joined leaders from the 21 APEC economies virtually for the forum’s final 2020 meeting. “We look forward to hosting a fully virtual APEC 2021 next year. While this isn’t an in-person meeting, it will be one ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Revival of Māori Horticulturists
    The rapid revival of Māori horticulture was unmistakeable at this year’s Ahuwhenua Trophy Awards, with 2020 marking the first time this iconic Māori farming event was dedicated to horticulture enterprises. Congratulating finalists at the Awards, Māori Development Minister Willie Jackson said growing large-scale māra kai is part of Māori DNA. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Emergency benefit to help temporary visa holders
    From 1 December, people on temporary work, student or visitor visas who can’t return home and or support themselves may get an Emergency Benefit from the Ministry of Social Development, Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today. Previously, temporary visa holders in hardship because of COVID-19 have had ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • School sustainability projects to help boost regional economies
    Forty one schools from the Far North to Southland will receive funding for projects that will reduce schools’ emissions and save them money, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. This is the second round of the Sustainability Contestable Fund, and work will begin immediately. The first round announced in April ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Farmer-led projects to improve water health in Canterbury and Otago
    More than $6 million will be spent on helping farmers improve the health of rivers, wetlands, and habitat biodiversity in Canterbury and Otago, as well as improving long-term land management practices, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. Four farmer-led catchment group Jobs for Nature projects have between allocated between $176,000 and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Tupu Aotearoa continues expansion to Pacific communities in Nelson, Marlborough, Tasman & Northl...
    Pacific communities in Nelson, Marlborough, Tasman and Northland will benefit from the expansion of the Tupu Aotearoa programme announced today by the Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio. The programme provides sustainable employment and education pathways and will be delivered in partnership with three providers in Northland and two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New primary school and classrooms for 1,200 students in South Island
    Education Minister Chris Hipkins unveiled major school building projects across the South Island during a visit to Waimea College in Nelson today. It’s part of the Government’s latest investment of $164 million to build new classrooms and upgrade schools around the country. “Investments like this gives the construction industry certainty ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister of Māori Development pays tribute to Rudy Taylor
      Today the Minister of Māori Development, alongside other Government Ministers and MP’s said their final farewells to Nga Puhi Leader Rudy Taylor.  “Rudy dedicated his life to the betterment of Māori, and his strong approach was always from the ground up, grassroots, sincere and unfaltering”  “Over the past few ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Prime Minister to attend APEC Leaders’ Summit
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern will attend the annual APEC Economic Leaders’ Meeting and associated events virtually today and tomorrow. “In a world where we cannot travel due to COVID-19, continuing close collaboration with our regional partners is key to accelerating New Zealand’s economic recovery,” Jacinda Ardern said. “There is wide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to Infrastructure NZ Symposium
    Tena Koutou, Tena Koutou and thank you for inviting me to speak to you today. This is a critical time for New Zealand as we respond to the damage wreaked by the global COVID-19 pandemic. It is vital that investment in our economic recovery is well thought through, and makes ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Pike River 10 Year Anniversary Commemorative Service
    Tēnei te mihi ki a tātau katoa e huihui nei i tēnei rā Ki a koutou ngā whānau o te hunga kua riro i kōnei – he mihi aroha ki a koutou Ki te hapori whānui – tēnā koutou Ki ngā tāngata whenua – tēnā koutou Ki ngā mate, e ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Huge investment in new and upgraded classrooms to boost construction jobs
    Around 7,500 students are set to benefit from the Government’s latest investment of $164 million to build new classrooms and upgrade schools around the country. “The election delivered a clear mandate to accelerate our economic recovery and build back better. That’s why we are prioritising construction projects in schools so more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Keeping Pike River Mine promises 10 years on
    Ten years after the Pike River Mine tragedy in which 29 men lost their lives while at work, a commemorative service at Parliament has honoured them and their legacy of ensuring all New Zealand workplaces are safe. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern attended the event, along with representatives of the Pike ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Additional testing to strengthen border and increase safety of workers
    New testing measures are being put in place to increase the safety of border workers and further strengthen New Zealand’s barriers against COVID-19, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “These strengthened rules – to apply to all international airports and ports – build on the mandatory testing orders we’ve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More public housing delivered in Auckland
    The Government’s investment in public housing is delivering more warm, dry homes with today’s official opening of 82 new apartments in New Lynn by the Housing Minister Megan Woods. The Thom Street development replaces 16 houses built in the 1940s, with brand new fit-for-purpose public housing that is in high ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Agreement advanced to purchase up to 5 million COVID-19 vaccines
    The Government has confirmed an in-principle agreement to purchase up to 5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 5 million people – from Janssen Pharmaceutica, subject to the vaccine successfully completing clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, says Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods. “This agreement ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Jobs for Nature funding will leave a conservation legacy for Waikanae awa
    Ninety-two jobs will be created to help environmental restoration in the Waikanae River catchment through $8.5 million of Jobs for Nature funding, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan announced today. “The new funding will give a four-year boost to the restoration of the Waikanae awa, and is specifically focussed on restoration through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Dunedin Hospital project progresses to next stage
    As the new Dunedin Hospital project progresses, the Government is changing the oversight group to provide more technical input, ensure continued local representation, and to make sure lessons learnt from Dunedin benefit other health infrastructure projects around the country. Concept design approval and the release of a tender for early ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Jump in apprentice and trainee numbers
    The number of New Zealanders taking up apprenticeships has increased nearly 50 percent, and the number of female apprentices has more than doubled. This comes as a Government campaign to raise the profile of vocational education and training (VET) begins. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • ReBuilding Nations Symposium 2020 (Infrastructure NZ Conference opening session)
    Tena koutou katoa and thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. Can I acknowledge Ngarimu Blair, Ngati Whatua, and Mayor Phil Goff for the welcome. Before I start with my substantive comments, I do want to acknowledge the hard work it has taken by everyone to ensure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New Zealand's biosecurity champions honoured
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor has paid tribute to the winners of the 2020 New Zealand Biosecurity Awards. “These are the people and organisations who go above and beyond to protect Aotearoa from pests and disease to ensure our unique way of life is sustained for future generations,” Damien O’Connor says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tourism Industry Aotearoa Conference
    speech to Tourism Industry Aotearoa annual summit Te Papa,  Wellington Introduction Nau mai, haere mai Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, Ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou. Thank you Tourism Industry Aotearoa for hosting today’s Summit. In particular, my acknowledgements to TIA Chair Gráinne Troute and Chief Executive Chris Roberts. You ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Supermarkets announced as Government’s second market study
    The Government has today launched a market study to ensure New Zealanders are paying a fair price for groceries.   “Supermarkets are an integral part of our communities and economy, so it’s important to ensure that Kiwis are getting a fair deal at the checkout,” Minister of Commerce and Consumer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Masks to be worn on Auckland public transport and all domestic flights
    Masks will need to be worn on all public transport in Auckland and in and out of Auckland and on domestic flights throughout the country from this Thursday, Minister for COVID-19 Response Chris Hipkins said today. “I will be issuing an Order under the COVID-19 Response Act requiring the wearing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand signs Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership
    Increase to New Zealand’s GDP by around $2 billion each year Increase opportunities for NZ exporters to access regional markets Cuts red tape and offers one set of trade rules across the Asia Pacific region New government procurement, competition policy and electronic commerce offers NZ exporters increased business opportunities Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister acknowledges students as exams begin
    Education Minister Chris Hipkins has recognised the extraordinary challenges students have faced this year, ahead of NCEA and New Zealand Scholarship exams which begin on Monday. “I want to congratulate students for their hard work during a year of unprecedented disruption, and I wish students all the best as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister meets with key ASEAN and East Asia Summit partners
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today attended the ASEAN-New Zealand Commemorative Summit and discussed with Leaders a range of shared challenges facing the Indo-Pacific region, including: The ongoing management of the COVID-19 pandemic; The importance of working collectively to accelerate economic recovery; and Exploring further opportunities for partners to work more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Veterans Affairs Summit held in Korea
    A Ministerial Summit on Veterans’ Affairs was held in the Republic of Korea this week. Ministers with veteran responsibilities were invited from all 22 countries that had been part of the United Nations Forces during the Korean War (1950 – 1953). The Summit marked the 70th anniversary of the outbreak ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clear direction set for the education system, skills prioritised
    The Government has released a set of priorities for early learning through to tertiary education and lifelong learning to build a stronger, fairer education system that delivers for all New Zealanders. “The election delivered a clear mandate from New Zealanders to accelerate our plan to reduce inequalities and make more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • A Progressive Agenda
    Speech to the Climate Change + Business Conference, November 12, 2020 Tena koutou katoa Thank you for inviting me to speak here today. It is great to see us all come together for a common cause: to redefine our future in the face of unprecedented times.  Covid-19 and climate change are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Wellington Pasifika Business Awards
    Thank you for having me join with you as we celebrate the success of Pacific businesses tonight, and recognise the resilient and innovative entrepreneurs who lead them. Equally important to me is, that we are also able tonight to offer up our gratitude to those leaders who have organised and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Commemorative address at Act of Remembrance for Armistice Day
    Tuatahi māku  Ka mihi tu ki a koe Pita E pīkauria ana i te mana o Ngā tūpuna o te whenua nei. Thank you Bernadette for your warm introduction. I would also like to reflect on your acknowledgments and welcome Peter Jackson, Taranaki Whānui; Members of the National War Memorial ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago