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The Gun Club

Written By: - Date published: 2:34 pm, March 11th, 2016 - 172 comments
Categories: capitalism, crime, Deep stuff, drugs, labour, police - Tags: , , , , ,

Following on from the Kawerau seige, Labour has called for an inquiry into the hidden and illegal gun market. Spokesperson Stuart Nash says that the time is right for an independent look into gun culture in NZ,  a discussion which he says needs to go beyond a “purely law and order perspective”.

Part time PM John Key reckons there’s nothing to see here, move on, oh look, there’s something shiny over there.

Nash is correct that we need to look at how criminals are getting hold of weapons. And we need to recognise that that further arming the police is not the answer.

This is a supply and demand issue. Any inquiry should look at ways of cutting the supply, for sure. But the also inquiry needs to identify why there is the demand for weapons in the first place. Particularly, we need to know why criminals are arming themselves.

It appears that the Kawerau seige followed on from a routine Police anti-cannabis cultivation operation. Presumably, the gun or guns were a deterrent to anyone thinking of raiding the crop, be that law enforcement or just other crims trying to rip the dope off.

To be blunt, if cannabis was not illegal in NZ, then these four police officers would not have been shot. If it was legal to possess and grow marijuana, then there would not be police operations of this nature and the criminal gangs who currently profit from drug dealing would find their customer base thinning considerably. So why aren’t we legalising marijuana?

The experience in the Netherlands, Portugal and some US states is that decriminalisation and the treatment of drug use as a health issue, not a legal matter, leads to less use overall and much, much less criminality.

So, by all means look at the black market in guns. But lets also address the wider problem that we have of criminalising a large minority of kiwis for using what is a mostly harmless intoxicant, and forcing smokers to peripherally interact with gangs and in turn, making those criminals think it’s sensible to protect their sources of profit with firearms.

If we free the weed, we can free up our police to catch real criminals and we can strike a blow against both gun culture and gang culture at the same time. So what’s stopping us?

 

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172 comments on “The Gun Club”

  1. weka 1

    There’s a table in that Labour press release that isn’t link or referenced in any way and appears incomplete. It’s supposed to detail reasons for confiscation, which seems important to this discussion.

  2. Chuck 2

    Personal cannabis use should be legal, a couple of plants out the back no problem. As for calls for an inquiry into the illegal gun market, it does not take a rocket scientist to work out the gangs and underworld bring in the military style weapons hidden in containers etc. The reason is also clear, to defend and attack against rival gangs as tens if not hundreds of millions dollars is at stake in the NZ drug industry. Its nothing to do with a “gun culture” its simply bad people (mostly gangs) who can access guns by either illegally importing or stealing from law abiding (licensed) gun owners.

    • TC 2.1

      National will not upset their tobacco and alcohol contributors by entertaining any decriminalisation actions.

      Shonky will always have another opinion on this matter regardless of the globally available data that it reduces crime and increases tax revenue.

  3. heather 3

    I agree there needs to be a complete overhaul of the gun rules in New Zealand.
    I think a very close look needs to be taken by someone of the huge gun sales that are held in Auckland, and I am sure elsewhere. I am horrified by the advertising that is posted in our letterbox and the page adverts in the newspaper advertising these gun sales.
    If cannabis was available and was not a criminal offence we would see a great change in the hours of police time given to trying to find it growing, the guns that are needed to protect it and maybe the police could give some more time to solving the outstanding number of unsolved burlaries in New Zealand.

    • Puckish Rogue 3.1

      Theres nothing wrong with the gun rules in NZ there is, however, something very wrong with the drug laws

      • weka 3.1.1

        “huge gun sales” gives us a clue. Why does NZ this?

        • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1.1

          It doesn’t matter if they’re big gun sales or small gun sales just so long as the rules and laws are followed

          I think worrying about gun sales is a red herring

          • weka 3.1.1.1.1

            The bigger the sale the more guns in circulation and the more that are going to end up being used criminally. I have no problem with people having guns for legitimate reasons, but weapons trading should be much more tightly regulated. Allowing it to be part of the free market is insane.

            • Grindlebottom 3.1.1.1.1.1

              We don’t want to end up like the US thanks. Too many guns in private hands is going to mean more shootings. People losing their rags and using the bloody things.

              • Colonial Viper

                Bullshit. You don’t understand NZ and firearms at all. People like you are going to fuck this up by trying to fire up a new moral crusade.

                • weka

                  You don’t think too many guns in private hands would a be a problem in NZ? Why not?

                  • Colonial Viper

                    You really want to fire up a new moral crusade for the Left and this is really what you want to pick?

                    • Grindlebottom

                      What are you on about? There’s no moral crusade here. Just an opinion that more guns in private hands will probably mean more shootings. I’m not a fan of encouraging lots of people to buy arms and I’d prefer all firearms to be registered rather than owners. There’s fuck all people being killed with guns in NZ because there’s fuck all people owning them.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You’re wrong on so many counts its ridiculous.

                      Everyone knows that guns don’t kill people, people do.

                    • Macro

                      IMHO both need to be registered. That is every firearm and its whereabouts – and every firearm owner. I’ve owned a firearm under both regimes – ie when every firearm was registered, and when every owner had a firearms license.
                      Thus there is a registry of every firearm in the country, and only those permitted to use them for sporting, hunting, etc.
                      Obviously there are illegal firearms traded on a black market, there is little that can be done about that apart from undercover and vigilance by police. The use of those firearms can be reduced however with appropriate policing methods, and I agree with the suggestion in the post that the shooting at Kawarau would never have occurred if the growing of Cannabis for personal use was not illegal.

                    • weka

                      “You really want to fire up a new moral crusade for the Left and this is really what you want to pick?”

                      No, I don’t. Fuck off CV and stop making shit up about my politics and those of other people here.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      weka, gun control was originally used to take guns off communists, socialists and unionists, as well as native peoples. Probably a good idea given your attitude.

                    • weka

                      +1 Macro.

                      Grindlebottom, CV is going off on one, don’t expect much in the way of actual debate. He’s spraying his shit around the site again this evening.

                    • Grindlebottom

                      Oh ok, thanks weka. I hadn’t noticed. Must have a look around. Quite like it when he goes off sometimes. Maybe he should eat something.

                    • weka

                      I don’t enjoy it, seen him trash too many conversations. I’m also not that keen on his blatant bigotry either.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Fuck it weka, you get to call me a bigot, tell me I am spraying shit around, and then get to pretend that you’re being all good and dandy?

                      Give me a break from your self-righteousness why don’t you.

                      Grindlebottom: good call. Having a few choc thins and a nice cuppa. Feeling better for it too 🙂

                    • Sacha

                      Weka should not be the focus of your ire.

                      Try Nash or whoever sanctioned him to make this an issue. Presume Labour’s caucus, leader, party managers, political advisors, ‘strategist’, comms manager and others were involved. If not, why not?

                    • The lost sheep

                      ‘He’s spraying his shit around the site again this evening.’
                      This, from someone who earlier in the day tried to create a causative linkage between the murder of 2 defenseless Worker Grandmothers and neo-liberal politics?

                      But Guns? Do we have an issue? It’s not like we are Venezuela or anything….
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

                    • weka

                      “Fuck it weka, you get to call me a bigot, tell me I am spraying shit around, and then get to pretend that you’re being all good and dandy?”

                      I’m not pretending I’m all good and dandy, that’s you making incorrect assumptions, again. I’m pointing out you are being a bigot (happy to say how if you want to know, but not wasting my brain when you so obviously aren’t interested in anything other than destroying) and that you’re not actually debating anything here, you’re just dumping a whole bunch of shit without any attempt to make a decent argument.

                      “Give me a break from your self-righteousness why don’t you.”

                      I’ll stop giving you shit when you stop behaving like one. Your behaviour tonight is unbelievable and I’m sick of it.

                    • weka

                      “Weka should not be the focus of your ire.”

                      Thanks Sacha, and neither should anyone else he is targeting here.

                    • Grindlebottom

                      I think you should give it a bit more time for the biscuits to work….

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Seriously weka, keep calling me names from your high horse, who cares what you are sick of.

                    • Grindlebottom

                      This is what happens when you expect biscuits to do a pizza’s job.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Yeah, noted for future reference…

                    • weka

                      “Seriously weka, keep calling me names from your high horse, who cares what you are sick of.”

                      I do. And I know other people who do too. I will keep calling you on the crappy stuff and encouraging you to comment in the intelligent way that contributes well to the place instead. I don’t mind you beefing off about Labour or whatever at times, everyone does that, but I’m not going to accept you doing wholesale negativity that sucks whole threads in its wake and misrepresents what people think.

                  • Sacha

                    more guns in private hands

                    James says it’s cool cos the phrase ‘private hands’ makes him moist.

                • James

                  CV – Hate to say it – agree with you 1000%.

                  Sad thing is – I knew as soon as it happened that this would be the squalk from some people.

                  And Grindlebottom – as sor fuck all people owning guns – NZ has the 22nd highest rate of gun ownership in the world.

                  • Grindlebottom

                    How many of those are multiple guns owned by the same licence holder James? And how many of them are rural?

              • Richard McGrath

                Can you cite evidence for your assertion? In the U.S. a few years ago, John Lott found that liberalising gun laws reduced rates of violent crime. That doesn’t mean everyone has to own a gun, but if they are allowed to, it discourages people from going on shooting sprees. Such sprees tend to occur where the shooter knows the civilian population have been disarmed.

      • DoublePlusGood 3.1.2

        People are allowed guns. Very, very few people actually need guns. This discrepancy is worth considering changes in the rules for.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.1

          If Labour head down this track it will find itself in over its head very quickly.

        • Richard McGrath 3.1.2.2

          So if you don’t need something you shouldn’t have it? Very, very few people actually need swimming pools.

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.2.1

            Or a car with an engine over 1800cc.

          • weka 3.1.2.2.2

            How many swimming pool murders and suicides per year in NZ?

            • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.2.2.1

              How many swimming pool deaths a year, weka, is the question you meant to ask.

              And how does it compare to gun deaths in NZ.

              Hmmmm, so how does it compare, weka?

              Also, you switched the basis of the argument away from “need”. Why did you do that?

              • weka

                I asked the right question. For a reason. People are willing to accept passive death risk far more than intentional. Which is why we drive big cars despite them causing deaths. If those deaths were intentional we would be calling for more regulation of big cars.

                “Also, you switched the basis of the argument away from “need”. Why did you do that?”

                No I didn’t. It’s still a valid argument. Bet you don’t know what I think about it though. Likewise, bet you don’t know where I stand on gun control. You’re a bigot CV.

        • James 3.1.2.3

          Need is not an essential qualifier. I want a gun, because I enjoy target shooting – its a hobbie.

          Love to see a government try to take that away from people.

          • weka 3.1.2.3.1

            Do you think there should be an upper limit of the number of hobby guns someone can own?

            I don’t have a problem with limited hobby ownership, and if it’s your hobby you can argue need for ownership. Type of firearm should be better regulated too.

            • chris73 3.1.2.3.1.1

              Well I for one don’t think there should be a limit because, not to be flippant, one person can only accurately fire one weapon at a time…unless you’re this guy of course

              http://www.gstatic.com/tv/thumb/movieposters/9400/p9400_p_v8_aa.jpg

              But seriously the problem i would have with this is who decides the limit and what is the purpose of the limit?

              If you’re a responsible gun owner (and the stats back it up I’m guessing) then it doesn’t matter if you own 1, 10 or 100 firearms because you’ve proven yourself to be capable of owning and looking after them

              Now if you wanted to increase sentencing for crimes involving firearms or make it easier to confiscate firearms if the owners show themselves to be incapable of looking after them then I wouldn’t have a problem with that either (Andrew Hore springs to mind)

              Basically I feel the laws we have now are working well and any more that are implemented (especially knee-jerk reactions) now will only target people that’re already following the laws and will have no effect on the criminals

              • weka

                We do seem to have an increasing problem though.

                Why do you object to registering each firearm as well as the owner?

                I guess I’m making the argument that the more guns there are in circulation the more that are available for criminal use. Am happy to be proven wrong on that eg if stats show that most guns used by criminals are smuggled in from overseas.

                • chris73

                  It is increasing but I don’t think focusing on (I hate to say it because it sounds like the NRA) law-abiding firearms owners is the way to go

                  I really do believe that decriminalizing dak would go a long way to combating this problem

                  The issues i have with registering firearms are:

                  1. The cost and record keeping would, I imagine, be quite considerable not too mention how much time it would take the police to run it

                  2. Again it goes back to law-abiding citizens and crims, the crims won’t register their weapons and will just steal, buy stolen firearms or just import them (illegally of course)

                  Also I’m not comfortable with the government knowing what weapons i have, a new government may decide to ban all firearms and a list of weapons would be quite handy for them to have if they ever wanted to start confiscating them…

                  My argument would be that making it harder for people to legally own firearms won’t stop criminals owing firearms and that decriminalizing dak and thereby cutting into crims profits would be a more effective solution

                  • weka

                    Ok, you’ve just said that you will be willing to break the law if necessary to keep your guns, so I think that renders the rest of your argument unsound.

                    • chris73

                      I think that english comprehension isn’t your strong suit, please point out where I said I’d break the law to keep my guns

                    • weka

                      You said,

                      Also I’m not comfortable with the government knowing what weapons i have, a new government may decide to ban all firearms and a list of weapons would be quite handy for them to have if they ever wanted to start confiscating them…

                      I took that to mean if the govt banned all firearms you would try and hide yours. Was I wrong? If you wouldn’t try and keep some, why is it a problem if the govt has a list of them?

                    • chris73

                      I took that to mean if the govt banned all firearms you would try and hide yours.

                      – You assumed

                      Was I wrong?

                      – Yes

                      If you wouldn’t try and keep some, why is it a problem if the govt has a list of them?

                      – If the government has a list of weapons and the government confiscate my weapons then at the very least my property has been taken away and you don’t see any problems with that?

                      or the government decides I’m now dangerous because I’m on a list that says I’m armed and you don’t see any problems with that?

                    • weka

                      Ok, just to be clear, if guns were banned in NZ you would hand yours in?

                      – If the government has a list of weapons and the government confiscate my weapons then at the very least my property has been taken away and you don’t see any problems with that?

                      It’s not without precedent. For instance the govt currently uses the Public Works Act to force people to sell them their land. It also confiscated land from Māori with the Foreshore and Seabed Act. So yeah, I see problems. But I don’t see how the govt having a list of what firearms you have figures into that. It’s like saying that property owners shouldn’t have title in case the govt confiscates their land. If you are willing to hand over your guns were such a law passed, then why is the govt having a list a problem exactly?

                      or the government decides I’m now dangerous because I’m on a list that says I’m armed and you don’t see any problems with that?

                      That’s a different thing. Again not without precedent. I think what you have said in public on this thread means you are probably already on the radar of the authorities with regards to firearms. Not hugely, but if the govt gets repressive they already know where to find you.

                    • chris73

                      The thing is in NZ we have a high gun ownership and low gun deaths and I believe a lot of that is because of the laws that have been set up so I don’t see any reason to change those laws

                      I also haven’t seen any reasonable argument from anyone on here as to why the laws should be changed besides some vague notions that people “shouldn’t” have firearms

                      Never has been more true when its said if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

                    • weka

                      We have too many illegal firearms in NZ, why is that?

          • te reo putake 3.1.2.3.2

            “Need is not an essential qualifier. ”

            Er, yes it is. Need comes before want. Gun culture is about wants, not needs.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

      • Richard McGrath 3.1.3

        Agree 100% there, PR. The main issue here is drug prohibition and the violation of individual freedom it represents.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.3.1

          /facepalm

          Answer this question: Does anybody else have the right to affect you without your say so?

          • Richard McGrath 3.1.3.1.1

            /facepalm

            No-one has the right to initiate force against me (or anyone else); if I can prove harm, I have a case for whoever harmed me to put things right.

            A person cannot live without affecting others – we don’t live on this planet completely isolated from everybody else.

            • Draco T Bastard 3.1.3.1.1.1

              I didn’t say force, I said affect. There’s a very good reason for that which is, as you point out, that nobody can do anything without affecting others. This gives others veto right on everything you do. This means that we don’t actually have “individual freedom”.

              Now, asking everybody if you can do something before you do it is impractical and so we have rules, regulations and tradition about what we can and can’t do without asking.

              I do agree that our drug laws don’t work and that they need a major overhaul. But it’s not a question of simply getting rid of prohibition.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.4

        Theres nothing wrong with the gun rules in NZ

        Of course there is. Neither we nor our politicians are perfect and thus the gun and all other laws aren’t perfect and so do need to be looked at and overhauled in line with new knowledge.

  4. Anno1701 4

    back in the mid 90s there was a large importation of military grade small arms into this country by organized criminals from out side NZ , they figured NZ was a good potential market as the rest of the world was pretty much saturated with this kind of weaponry buy this point

    A few months later there was an “all-gang” summit called and it was decided to get rid of these weapons before serious carnage broke out

    They were sealed into 40gallons drums with concrete and dropped by a fishing trawler into the sea of the coast of Invercargill

    The Police were advised the guns were being moved and where they were going , “word on the street” is the Law was so happy about what was happening they provided an undercover escort in case the load was mistakenly intercepted by any local plod en-route

    • reason 4.1

      ^^^^ what a load of fantasy shit Anon1701 …………………. did you read it in a Wishart magazine or something.

      The big BOOM of guns entering the black market was after the Government changed the laws in response to David Gray and the Aramoana shootings.

      Hundreds of thousands of licensed gun owners did not renew under the more strict, stringent and expensive firearms license rules. …………. and as their guns themselves were not registered or otherwise kept track of no one has a clue where they all went ( the vast majority were sold legally to licensed gun owners of course ).

      Cannabis prohibition is a political Cult built on lies and embraced by our legal system ……… whose time is drawing to an end.

      Shame about all the damage they have and still are causing ……….

      • Anno1701 4.1.1

        “^^^^ what a load of fantasy shit Anon1701… did you read it in a Wishart magazine or something.”

        settle down sweetheart

        i was told by someone who was on the boat

        • reason 4.1.1.1

          “settle down sweetheart

          i was told by someone who was on the boat”

          gee I guess that makes it true then ……………. was it David Icke and were shape shifting reptiles also present?.

    • Sacha 4.2

      That’s a great story. Imagine if their ancestors had been as smart about who wins when gangs/tribes take foreign guns and fight amongst themselves?

  5. Andre 5

    Just out of curiosity, imagine the our authorities had never heard of cannabis prior to the Psychoactive Substances 2013, and hadn’t specifically banned it. Would cannabis have met the requirements for legal sale? After all, hundreds of millions, if not billions of willing human subjects have used it with very little credible evidence of substantial harm to users.

  6. Colonial Viper 6

    I would take a similar but stronger position on this than TRP.

    Chasing down gun laws is a complete red herring for liberal lefties to get all excited about. NZ gun laws and NZ gun culture work very well.

    Taking marijuana out of the purvue of criminals is where the big game for societal change is.

    As well as replacing it with legal, productive, economic alternatives in the regions so that people can continue to earn a solid income.

    One more thing which hasn’t been mentioned so far: all attempts to routinely arm or militarise our police must be resisted.

    • weka 6.1

      “NZ gun laws and NZ gun culture work very well.”

      But it is changing. And there isn’t one gun culture in NZ, there are multiple ones. Can you name them?

      I’d like to know if there is any evidence that shows the number of gun violence incidents in NZ related to cannabis alone.

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Name the gun cultures in NZ? Why are you asking absurd questions?

        You want to start a Lefty hunt for these bad subcultures in NZ now?

        You think that the Left can deal with these bad subcultures by passing new laws?

        • weka 6.1.1.1

          “You want to start a Lefty hunt for these bad subcultures in NZ now?”

          No I don’t. Where did you get that from? Get off your high horse CV and try and make some politically based debate instead of slurs.

          • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1.1

            The ‘thoughtful comment’ from CV which Ropata referenced in today’s daily review is part of CV’s general view on ‘lefties’ as he puts it.

            CV, in that ‘thoughtful comment’ explains why he thinks Chinese do not engage in politics. A part of his explanation is that Chinese was…

            Further, for a lot of “Asians”, politics is not some benign harmless thing you turn off when the news comes on. Without putting too fine a point on it, leaders get deposed, shit gets blown up, billion dollar nepotism is common, family members are placed incommunicado under Internal Security Acts, helicopters crash in mysterious circumstances, journalists end up floating in the gutter, and you’re lucky if your so-called body guards aren’t the ones to pull the trigger on you one day.

            I haven’t been here long but I think CV’s crusade against ‘lefties’ is a product of being kicked out of the Dunedin Labour Party branch. I think a grudge is being held by CV which would be consistent with his explanation of the attitude of Chinese towards politics.

            • weka 6.1.1.1.1.1

              I’ve only just read that thread, and probably need to reread it as there is a lot in there, but on the face of it I don’t see what you mean. The bit you quote, I took him to be referring to Asian immigrants, not NZ Chinese (of which is he one), so I don’t see how it applies.

              Here’s the thread for those that haven’t seen it. It’s a good read.

              “The greatest polling error in primary history”

              • Muttonbird

                I referenced the comment in response to your call to CV to engage in political debate instead of slurs.

                It made me think of Ropata’s reference to the ‘thoughtful comment’ by CV in which he explained that Asians don’t do politics because of the inherent corruption and flat out nepotism in the politics and daily business life that they are used to.

                • weka

                  Are you saying that CV is akin to an Asian immigrant who comes from a country that is corrput?

                  • Muttonbird

                    No. I referenced his post and I’ll ask you not project what I’m saying in future.

                    CV in his ‘thoughtful comment’ detailed why he thinks Asians (Chinese) don’t engage in politics. He said they tend to be self employed and use their own in family labour and the connections they can trust because their wider experience is one of nepotism and corruption at higher government levels.

                    Let’s be honest here. Chinese people don’t enjoy democracy in any way shape or form and verily are persecuted for agitating for such so no wonder they shy away from politics when the relocate to NZ.

                    Those relocating just want to use the gains they have made from a country with weak labour laws and poor social justice to maximise their situation in NZ.

                    You can say CV comes from a country which is corrupt if you like.

                    • weka

                      I’m not projecting, I’m trying to guess because I honestly don’t know what you are getting at here.

                      CV, afaik, is a Kiwi. I don’t understand why you are comparing him to an Asian immigrant.

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1.2

              I haven’t been here long but I think CV’s crusade against ‘lefties’ is a product of being kicked out of the Dunedin Labour Party branch.

              Kicked out was I?

              Link or explanation, please.

              The post I wrote at the time was very clear: all the officers of the branch resigned and the branch I was a member of voted to go into recess; I decision I also voted for.

              Please explain to me where you got “kicked out” from that.

              Unless you meant that we kicked out the Labour Party from our personal lives, which might be a bit more accurate.

              • Muttonbird

                There’s bad blood there. That is plain to see. Also plain to see is the effect it has had upon your vision when talking about the Labour party in particular and ‘lefties’ in general.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Oh there’s definitely bad blood, that’s not in question.

                  The post I read at the time also detailed out why our branch officers quit their posts. Off the top of my head:

                  Mushy stance on the TPP, mushy stance on the Right to Fire, badly judged Chinese sounding last names gambit, voting for NAT social welfare legislation, voting for NAT spying and anti-terrorism legislation, etc.

                  • Muttonbird

                    Meh.

                    Nationally, the TPP debate is mushy because of the secrecy, condescension, and partisanship imposed by the National Government negotiators.

                    The Labour Party has always been for the right of workers and have forced a government policy reversal on zero hours just this week.

                    The Chinese names was a call for foreign buyers information because your beloved National Party government refused to collect such information. Now it does, thanks Phil Twyford.

                    Not sure what you mean about ‘voting for NAT social welfare legislation’, and ‘voting for NAT spying and anti-terrorism legislation, etc’. You appear to have fallen into generalities at that point.

                    • weka

                      Labour voted for bene bashing and the GCSB legislation put up by National.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I didn’t mean that the debate on the TPP is mushy, I mean that Labour is totally mushy on the TPP.

                      Secret agreement which is against the long term interests of NZers.

                      Not that difficult or unclear a political position to maintain is it?

                      But that might put big transnational corporates like Big Pharma etc. off side and they might not want dinner with you.

                    • Muttonbird

                      What bene-bashing?

                      As for the GCSB/SIS laws, I don’t have an issue monitoring gang, drug, and terror activities in NZ but I do have an issue with sitting governments like this one using taxpayer funded spy and police resources to discredit the opposition, critical journalism, and Kiwis subject to foreign civil cases.

                    • weka

                      You can look up the welfare legislation. It’s been talked about a bit on ts.

                    • Muttonbird

                      That’s lazy weka. Please reference where the Labour party have bashed beneficiaries rather than just saying look it up.

                    • weka

                      it’s not laziness it’s that I’m not here to do your homework for you.

              • pat

                a question CV…I assume (though one never should, or so Im told) you are a NZer (chinese heritage) of many generations….that being so, what is the basis of your connection/knowledge of recent Chinese immigrants?

                • Colonial Viper

                  I have a Chinese last name.

                  • pat

                    lol…or a Chinese sounding one. It was a genuine inquiry…I have an Irish surname but that fact gives me no insight into why or how any Irish immigrants may vote.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I’ve met a few Irish in my time. The ones who were politically inclined…can talk for hours about the politics of their countrymen. If there are sufficient drinks available to water the tongue…

                    • pat

                      it would appear its not only the Irish who kiss the Blarney

        • weka 6.1.1.2

          “Name the gun cultures in NZ? Why are you asking absurd questions?”

          You said,

          “NZ gun laws and NZ gun culture work very well.”

          You appeared to be speaking authoritatively. I want to know if you actually know much abotu gun use in NZ, who uses them, why etc i.e. do you know what gun cultures are?

        • RedLogix 6.1.1.3

          @CV

          Here my proposed deal on this. There are only three legitimate reasons to own any sort of gun.

          1. You are a collector.

          You own them for their intrinsic value, not to use them. In this case there is no reason for any gun in your collection to be in working condition, nor should you ever own ammunition.

          All ‘collectables’ are registered and ownership tracked by a National Association that you pay a substantial fee to belong to. Anything not on the register cannot be bought or sold legally, and can be destroyed by the Police.

          2. You are a target shooter.

          In this case you will belong to an official shooting club that has access to a range. Your guns will be registered and any ownership changes tracked by the club, and all your ammunition will be issued by the club for use on a range only. If you cease to be a member in good standing, you surrender your weapon to the club.

          3. You are a bona-fide hunter or farmer.

          You will be a member of Federated Farmers or one of the recognised Hunting Associations. In this case the current rules around Police registration, secure storage and separation of ammunition will apply stringently.

          You will attend regular association meetings, and a safety course at least once every five years. Your equipment and storage will be inspected regularly. Gun owners pay for the cost.

          There are absolutely NO other ‘kiwi cultural’ scenarios that have any legitimacy whatsoever.

          The legal position on gun ownership must be perfectly clear that it is a privilege not a right. Any breach of the rules is an automatic suspension of that right with no compensation. Exactly the same as say … a drivers license.

          Any possession or use of a weapon outside these clear boundaries will be an automatic presumption of guilt in the context of any criminal charges arising, and maximum sentencing will be the indicated direction to the Courts.

          That’s the real New Zealand ‘gun culture’ for you CV. And most safe, competent and responsible gun owners would largely agree with me.

          • weka 6.1.1.3.1

            I agree with pretty much all of that, very good summation.

            This not so much though,

            “You will be a member of Federated Farmers or one of the recognised Hunting Associations.”

            There are plenty of farmers who don’t belong to FF and shouldn’t be required to. Having a wider range of associations to belong to might solve the issue, but it’s not a good idea to mix FF, who are a lobby group with huge influence on the govt nationally and local bodies and who are basically politically amoral, and gun control. Think NZ’s version of the NRA.

            Many poor people rely on hunting to supplement their diets. It’s not ok to penalise them via fees, and it’s probably not safe either as it will encourage illegal ownership and trade.

            • RedLogix 6.1.1.3.1.1

              I agree my proposals above could stand for some refinement. They were meant as a broad expression of intent.

              Conventionally we’ve relied on the State to define and enforce a ‘social license’ to own and use guns. But I do see a much expanded and more effective role for community based organisations. My sense is that if you are a member in good standing of a recognised association this is the most effective way of creating strong, safe and clear expectations around gun use.

              In my experience, if your out regularly bagging a decent amount of wild game for the family, this adds up to a substantial monetary value over the course of a year. Most good hunters finish up with too much at times and a bit of of cash often changes hands with their mates. A few hundred bucks a years in costs is not that big a hurdle. Not if your legit.

              • weka

                My sense is that if you are a member in good standing of a recognised association this is the most effective way of creating strong, safe and clear expectations around gun use.

                How would you see say Tūhoe fitting into that?

                In my experience, if your out regularly bagging a decent amount of wild game for the family, this adds up to a substantial monetary value over the course of a year. Most good hunters finish up with too much and a bit of of cash quite likely changes hands with their mates. A few hundred bucks a years in costs is not that big a hurdle. Not if your legit.

                You’re suggesting that hunters sell meat illegally to cover the increased costs of owning firearms?

                I’m not in favour of laws being written with that kind of rationale (or policy). Nor am I in favour of laws being written that give privilege to people with resources. The people you are talking about are not poor.

                • RedLogix

                  How would you see say Tūhoe fitting into that?

                  If Tuhoe want to operate outside of the current national law, then I guess it’s up to them to say so and work through the consequences. Or if they want to write their own laws and rules around gun use, or abolish them altogether, then as a white male Pakeha I guess I have to remain silent. It’s the sort of thing I’m not allowed to have an opinion on these days.

                  You’re suggesting that hunters sell meat illegally to cover the increased costs of owning firearms?

                  Well you were suggesting that poor hunters might choose to illegally own their firearms to avoid paying some pretty modest fees in the context of the value that their hunting produces.

                  Which do imagine is of more concern, a bit of low level under the table meat trading that has always gone on (done it myself) … or tolerating slack enforcement of gun laws? I know which lane I pick.

                  • weka

                    I’m not suggesting any of those things about Tūhoe. I’m suggesting that if we want to write laws that are inclusive we need to make them work for a broad range of people and I’m not sure that some of your suggestions do that.

                    Well you were suggesting that poor hunters might choose to illegally own their firearms to avoid paying some pretty modest fees in the context of the value that their hunting produces.

                    Yes, but I’m not suggesting we write laws in such a way that accomodates and encourages that. We should write laws that enable people to obey them.

                    Not sure what you mean by modest fees. It’s already pricey to get a licence. If we add on fees for gun registration and various reinspections/tests over time, that puts it out of affordability for some people. I think that will create problems.

              • Colonial Viper

                RL: you believe that those 3 steps you proposed being implemented would have prevented those police officers from being shot?

                I’m not so sure about that.

                I am however 100% sure those officers would not have been shot if cannabis was legalised.

                Perhaps that latter measure would be both more direct, and more effective, at ensuring police safety.

                • RedLogix

                  You know way better than to leap from the general to the specific like that 🙂

                  I would argue that more political effort to constrain gun ownership and use would on balance reduce the probability of people, including police, from being shot. Whether or not it prevents any given incident from happening is a different question that neither you nor I have an answer to.

                  But on the other hand I do accept that legalising cannabis would have in this case have completely changed odds for the better.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    A party in power has a certain amount of political capital it can burn doing unpopular stuff.

                    It’s very rare that a government gets an opportunity to make a big change which will net gain it political capital.

                    From the political calculus point of view a Left Govt trying to knuckle down on gun owners is going to cost it big time. Whereas sorting out the legalisation of cannabis, with appropriate processes and controls, is going to gift it big time.

                    So as a lefty political party, which should avenue should they raise to media prominence?

                    Labour has picked one and I reckon its the wrong one.

                    • weka

                      FWIW, I think Labour were wrong on this too (although possibly for different reasons).

                    • RedLogix

                      It’s very rare that a government gets an opportunity to make a big change which will net gain it political capital.

                      I’ll not quibble with that in principle. But at the same time much of the rest of the world looks on the slow train crash which is the gun-culture in the USA with unmitigated horror and bafflement.

                      There is your net political gain.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      And in what way is our gun culture, gun rules, and gun deaths similar to the USA?

                      It’s not really at all, is it. We are way ahead of the game, by a country mile.

                • Gabby

                  Do you think the legalisation of cannabis would lead growers to stop using land that doesn’t belong to them? If not, do you think police would turn a blind eye to that?

                • Lucy

                  The latest lot would not but most of the cops getting shot when dealing with P suppliers, are you suggesting this should be legalised too? If guns were registered like they used to be we would have an idea of how many were legitimately in the country.

          • chris73 6.1.1.3.2

            1. You are a collector.

            You own them for their intrinsic value, not to use them. In this case there is no reason for any gun in your collection to be in working condition, nor should you ever own ammunition.

            All ‘collectables’ are registered and ownership tracked by a National Association that you pay a substantial fee to belong to. Anything not on the register cannot be bought or sold legally, and can be destroyed by the Police.

            – I disagree with this, part of the fun in collecting is using what you’re collecting (for some people that is), would you expect someone who collects of cars to not drive them so why would you expect someone who collects firearms to not fire them

            – I don’t believe that setting up an association will achieve anything as its not legally acquired firearms that’re causing the problem and you can’t buy firearms without a licence anyway

            2. You are a target shooter.

            In this case you will belong to an official shooting club that has access to a range. Your guns will be registered and any ownership changes tracked by the club, and all your ammunition will be issued by the club for use on a range only. If you cease to be a member in good standing, you surrender your weapon to the club.

            – To get a pistol licence you need to be a member of a pistol club anyway but why foist responsibility for registration onto a club (which are mostly run by volunteers) when there isn’t that much of a major issue?

            – and as for having your ammo issued by the club, good luck with that…theres a lot of different ammunition out there because everyone has their preferences and what about the reloaders, what do they do?

            3. You are a bona-fide hunter or farmer.

            You will be a member of Federated Farmers or one of the recognised Hunting Associations. In this case the current rules around Police registration, secure storage and separation of ammunition will apply stringently.

            You will attend regular association meetings, and a safety course at least once every five years. Your equipment and storage will be inspected regularly. Gun owners pay for the cost.

            – Gun owners will pay for the cost, its not the gun owners that follow the rules that’re the problem, its the criminals breaking the laws so why are you wanting gun owners to have more of their rights taken away, penalties forced on them and pay more money?

            The legal position of gun ownership must be perfectly clear that it is a privilege not a right. Any breach of the rules is an automatic suspension of that right with no compensation. Exactly the same as say … a drivers license.

            – We know its a privilege (well most of us do) thats why we in NZ have one of the highest rates of gun ownership (22nd in the world)

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

            but have one of the lower gun deaths by firearm totals

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

            Don’t mess with a good thing, we have a good balance between rights and responsibilities

            • RedLogix 6.1.1.3.2.1

              Nope … the current balance is sliding towards tolerating more and more gun ownership without much in the way of legitimacy.

              I could have proposed a much more draconian regime that simply stated – no guns at all. Like we don’t for instance allow people to collect deadly snakes or piles of enriched uranium because they think it’s ‘fun’.

              My view is that in a civilised society, guns have a very narrow legitimacy. I argue that if you want to partake in owning one, there will be a significant hurdle to leap over … and very real constraints.

              New Zealand is still a small country. With a bit of political and social will, we could quite readily eliminate illegal and criminal gun ownership. A classic carrot and stick approach would work quite readily.

              • chris73

                Nope … the current balance is sliding towards tolerating more and more gun ownership without much in the way of legitimacy.

                – Thats not true at all, the current licencing rules came in after the Aromoana massacre and since the gun deaths in NZ are running at:

                New Zealand 1.07 per 100 000 and thats broken down into:

                0.18 (2013) attributed to homicide
                0.84 (2011) attributed to suicide
                0.05 (2010) unintentional

                I’d say the current laws are doing very well

                I could have proposed a much more draconian regime that simply stated – no guns at all. Like we don’t for instance allow people to collect deadly snakes or piles of enriched uranium because they think it’s ‘fun’.

                – No we don’t however comparing deadly snakes and enriched uranium to firearms is a very long bow to draw

                The fact is that in a civilised society, guns have a very narrow legitimacy. I argue that if you want to partake in owning one, there will be a significant hurdle to leap over … and very real constraints.

                – You say they have a narrow legitimacy, I say that for hunters, collectors, target shooters, pest control workers and farmers its not very narrow at all

                – There are already hurdles in place if you want to own firearms and, again, harking back to the low cause of death by firearms I’d say they’re working well

                New Zealand is still a small country. With a bit of political and social will, we could quite readily eliminate illegal and criminal gun ownership. A classic carrot and stick approach would work quite readily.

                – No you can’t unless you want to instigate policies like these guys who were also into gun control:

                In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

                In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

                Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, leaving a populace unable to defend itself against the Gestapo and SS. Hundreds of thousands died as a result.

                China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

                Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

                Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. The total dead are said to be 2-3 million

                Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1-2 million ‘educated’ people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

                Although lets be fair those numbers are merely estimates because who really keeps count

                • Colonial Viper

                  Some days a group of activists wants to make it easier for people to kill themselves. Some days those same activists want to make it harder for people to kill themselves. It’s all over the map.

                • RedLogix

                  No we don’t however comparing deadly snakes and enriched uranium to firearms is a very long bow to draw

                  They’re all very dangerous when misused and often kill people. As a society we place strict rules around snakes and uranium because in NZ we simply do not accept them in any shape or form. And if guns were invented tomorrow, we’d not tolerate them either.

                  Christ on a bike … do you really imagine a population can defend itself against the modern state?

                  If really you want to get into an arms race with the military you’ll ultimately need some big bazookas buddy. I guess a few of them in the back shed would have real bragging rights 🙂

                  • chris73

                    They’re all very dangerous when misused and often kill people

                    Theres a lot of things that could be applied to as well:

                    https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/nz-mortality-statistics-1950-2009-provisional.pdf

                    an easier chart to read:

                    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/what_kiwis_die_of.html

                    However death by firearm is extremely low

                    • RedLogix

                      Take another look.

                      We spend billions on a health system that is designed to minimise early or avoidable death to disease.

                      We strongly legislate public, transport and workplace environments to minimise death or injury to avoidable accident.

                      Our legal system counts homicide among the worst of crimes.

                      Our efforts to placate disease, accident and malice can be uneven, sometimes misdirected even … but nonetheless as a society we direct huge resource to this endeavour.

                      But guns are different. Death by guns are entirely 100% preventable, and they bring very little in the way of positive benefit to society, outside of perhaps agricultural and animal control purposes. Their risk-benefit trade-off is awful.

                    • weka

                      “Death by guns are entirely 100% preventable,”

                      That’s not quite true. For some of those deaths people would use a different weapon (or tool in the case of suicide) if a gun wasn’t available.

                      The ones that are completely preventable are the accidental death ones.

                      “and they bring very little in the way of positive benefit to society, outside of perhaps agricultural and animal control purposes. Their risk-benefit trade-off is awful.”

                      Lots of people love hunting and do it for the love of it. That brings benefit. I think target shooting is similar. I don’t know where the risk/benefit trade off should be, but I’d favour some better regulating to prevent it from getting worse rather than assuming it’s already too bad.

                    • RedLogix

                      You should not mis-interpret what I am saying to mean that I’m anti-gun. I’ve spent more time with hunters and target shooters than you probably imagine.

                      I do know which end of one to point.

                      A close friend spent decades as a professional pest controller putting more rounds through his rifle in a year than few other people manage in a lifetime.

                      Close relatives of mine live on a busy gun range.

                      I understand their legitimate uses.

                      But equally I’m bloody clear on the boundaries as well. Especially the kind of gung-ho boof-headed attitudes you can see in c73’s ideas.

                    • chris73

                      But equally I’m bloody clear on the boundaries as well. Especially the kind of gung-ho boof-headed attitudes you can see in c73’s ideas.

                      – Give me an example of my so-called boof-headed attitude

                • Interesting incidental correlations, chris73.

                  Here’s a summing up of the evidence from some Harvard guy:

                  Scientific studies have consistently found that places with more guns have more violent deaths, both homicides and suicides. Women and children are more likely to die if there’s a gun in the house. The more guns in an area, the higher the local suicide rates. “Generally, if you live in a civilized society, more guns mean more death,” said David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. “There is no evidence that having more guns reduces crime. None at all.”

                  Elsewhere in the same link:

                  Despite the ubiquitous presence of “good guys” with guns, countries like Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Colombia and Venezuela have some of the highest homicide rates in the world.

                  Indeed, even as some Americans propose expanding our gun culture into elementary schools, some Latin American cities are trying to rein in theirs. Bogotá’s new mayor, Gustavo Petro, has forbidden residents to carry weapons on streets, in cars or in any public space since last February, and the murder rate has dropped 50 percent to a 27-year low. He said, “Guns are not a defense, they are a risk.”

                  “If you’re living in a ‘Mad Max’ world, where criminals have free rein and there’s no government to stop them, then I’d want to be armed,” said Dr. Hemenway of Harvard. “But we’re not in that circumstance. We’re a developed, stable country.” [Referring to the US]

                  • And, chris73, you’re inviting an illogical inference: ‘Authoritarian governments introduce gun controls prior to slaughtering their citizens therefore any government that introduces gun control is increasing the risk of their citizenry being slaughtered.’

                    It ain’t necessarily so.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.1.1.4

          Name the gun cultures in NZ? Why are you asking absurd questions?

          Not really absurd at all – need to know what we’re addressing before we know how to address it.

          And off the top of my head there’s the gun cultures of:

          1. Farmers
          2. Sportspeople
          3. Collectors
          4. Police
          5. Criminals
          6. Enthusiasts

          • RedLogix 6.1.1.4.1

            Well you can more or less conflate enthusiasts and police together. They’re both primarily interested in target shooting in controlled situations. They both typically train on the same ranges, and both are very safety and control conscious as a rule.

            And this group often has a fair bit of overlap with collectors. Especially people into vintage guns, and the like. And if collectors are into firing their weapons it’s almost always in a club context on a controlled range of some sort. There’s often a fair overlap with archers and bow hunters as well.

            And farmers and sports hunters both operate in back country settings where the target is always animals. Only a problem when they mis-identify their target. Which sadly happens a bit too often.

            Criminals are actually a much easier proposition than most people imagine. All it takes is a sustained message from the Police that any whiff of illegal weapon ownership, threat or use will get the ton of bricks treatment. Over time the crims have the option of either engaging in an arms race with the cops, which tends to be Darwinian in its outcomes, or they smarten up and get rid of them.

          • Don't worry. Be happy 6.1.1.4.2

            And the gun cultures of the Armed Forces…territorials as well as regular…..cops seem to get off on guns as well.

            • RedLogix 6.1.1.4.2.1

              Well another way of looking at it is that Police and the Services are more or less the professional version of the amateurs enjoying a Saturday afternoon banging away at the local range.

              Often both police and enthusiasts will share the same facilities. What they both have in common is a strong safety and control culture that does not tolerate untrained idiots who put lives in danger.

              Indeed if you’ve ever watched a SWAT team training, the level of discipline and skill is impressive.

              • Colonial Viper

                and its mindblowing to consider that they operate at a big performance step below operators like the NZSAS.

    • “One more thing which hasn’t been mentioned so far: all attempts to routinely arm or militarise our police must be resisted.”

      That’s part of Nash’s point. He called for an inquiry that didn’t have a “purely law and order perspective”. I reinforced that in the post, too. The answer isn’t more guns.

      • Sacha 6.2.1

        Why is this coming from Nash?

      • miravox 6.2.2

        The other thing that I’m wondering about is if gun sellers are attempting to grow their business with increased presence on-line, and in the community. I’m not suggesting in illegality – just that weapons are in the same socially undesirable category and cigarettes, alcohol, gambling etc and so promotion of the product should be heavily regulated.

        Has regulation of promotion/advertising kept up with gun shows, billboards, on-line sales etc.? Maybe this should be included in any inquiry into illegal gun use and culture (or possibly more appropriately acculturation).

        • Colonial Viper 6.2.2.1

          I’m wondering if we can get some journalists to try ordering some guns online.

          • miravox 6.2.2.1.1

            Heh! Nah – been done 🙂

            Is that still ongoing, or sorted now?

            I was thinking more about whether there was increasing demand for guns, not the legality of a sale.

        • chris73 6.2.2.2

          Why are firearms in the same category as cigarettes, alcohol, gambling etc?

          • miravox 6.2.2.2.1

            Dangerous in the wrong hands and associated with social harm, ‘health’ consequences and criminality if used incorrectly. NO, I’m not suggesting here that guns should be banned. No, I’m not anti-hunting, target shooting or collecting.

            However, I do believe they should be thoughtful purchases, and marketing and advertising should reflect this. You may have a different view and that’s fine – all the more reason for this to be part of an inquiry, if that’s what is being called for. Sort out the issues.

          • weka 6.2.2.2.2

            They’re all potentially dangerous.

            • chris73 6.2.2.2.2.1

              Name me something that isn’t potentially dangerous

              • weka

                Most things. You’re not that stupid chris.

                • chris73

                  Most things are potentially dangerous depending on how you use them

                  • weka

                    Theoretically true but not relevant to the point that was being made.

                    • chris73

                      Well yes it, food wasn’t mentioned yet thats probably the biggest killer out there, I didn’t see motor vehicles anywhere, I’m betting (and it’d be a pretty safe bet) that knives are used to kill more people in NZ then firearms

                      So why demonize something thats not only safe but something you have to get a licence for

                    • weka

                      No-one is demonising firearms. We’re having a conversation about risk assessment and the public good. We also have that conversation about drugs, alcohol, gambling and yes, food and cars and regulate accordingly.

    • vto 6.3

      True mr viper true, about taking crims out of one great big silliness.. namely marijuana …

      However I don’t think it will solve any criminal problem because the gangs and the like will simply crop (pun pun) up somewhere else. This is what they do. Decriminalising marijuana will distort the criminal raising of incomes by gangs to another activity.

      It may provide some criminal easing around the edges by local losers who make some extra pocket money, but they will also crop (pun again) up elsewhere..

      Which of the two above would the local Kawerau chap belong to? The gang? Or the local loser?

      • Colonial Viper 6.3.1

        Yes the gangs will try and raise revenue from other illegal sources, but there is little out there which can replace the $$$$$ from the massive volume of marijuana grown and used in this country.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.4

      all attempts to routinely arm or militarise our police must be resisted.

      QFT

  7. maui 7

    Not too worried about the guns, I don’t see how you could ever keep them out of criminal hands anyway. What about focusing instead on reducing criminal activity with a new economic model that doesn’t drive thousands of people into poverty like the current one does.

  8. adam 8

    Prohibition is just making the gangs rich.

    The police are the poor suckers on the front line fighting a war on drugs that can not be won.

    Just in case you missed it folks – the war on drugs has been going on since Ronald Reagan. No wait… Nixon and that was in 1971.

    So Incredible failure.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.1

      Just in case you missed it folks – the war on drugs has been going on since Ronald Reagan. No wait… Nixon and that was in 1971.

      Since Al Capone actually. First the alcohol and, once prohibition ended, the police needed something else harmless to beat upon to keep the high budgets rolling in.

  9. vto 9

    I always liked bazookas because of their name. Can you buy them in NZ?

  10. Wainwright 10

    Hear hear.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11

    If we free the weed, we can free up our police to catch real criminals and we can strike a blow against both gun culture and gang culture at the same time. So what’s stopping us?

    What’s stopping us seems to be a fundamental inability of our governing body to accept that marijuana shouldn’t have been made illegal in the first place. Regulated like cigarettes and alcohol would have been a much better idea and it’s safer than both of those.

    And then think of the good we could do developing medicines from that freely available weed.

    • sabine 11.1

      @draco t bastard

      And then think of the good we could do developing medicines from that freely available weed.

      …… but there is no profit in freely available.

      but other then that, yes, I firmly believe that making week legal, or tolerated as in the Netherlands would be a vote winner. alas, it seems that the collective body of politicians regardless of colour and affiliation has no spine, not guts, nor anything when it comes to advocating that the evil weed might be a good cash crop if legal.

  12. Stuart Munro 12

    I think the sudden interest in guns is MPs trying to pretend they’re doing something. Scaremongering to justify increased police and surveillance powers perhaps. But of course police should be working more on guns and burglary, and less on traffic and marijuana. VTO, a bazooka may be required to get the benefits of marijuana law reform through Peter Dunne’s thick skull.

  13. Jay 13

    Excellent and very well-written article.

    Nz will eventually follow the example of the US if the model works there, which it sounds like it is.

    If England jumps on board too, then it will certainly just be a matter of time.

    I was 100% in favour of legalizing all drugs before the synthetic cannabis debacle and the trouble caused by it being legal, but my gut tells me this had more to do with cannabis still being illegal. I now agree though with seeing how it works out in the states before we rush into it.

    I don’t want to see cannabis smoked openly on the streets, but if I had to vote on it tomorrow I’d say legalise all drugs, make the harder ones available on prescription, and thereby suck billions out of the gang’s economy.

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    In the absence of a vaccine or a cure for a deadly disease, staying home in your bubble is what you do, the concept is not new.  To the best of my knowledge last time we did this in NZ was for polio, in the years before a vaccine came ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    1 day ago
  • National Network on Cuba (USA): “Cuban medical solidarity is a pillar of its society and is founde...
    The following statement was released on March 28 by the National Network on Cuba, a coalition of 40 groups, based in the United States. In recent weeks, Cuba has deployed hundreds of medical providers to over a dozen countries in Europe, Asia, as well as to their neighbors in Latin ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 day ago
  • Alarming decrease in calves increases fears for endangered Hector’s dolphin
    This has been a terrible summer for Hector’s dolphins. The first indication was very low numbers of dolphin sightings during late spring and early summer. The Otago University Marine Mammal Research Team has carried out routine dolphin surveys at Banks Peninsula for more than 30 years. In all that time, ...
    SciBlogsBy Otago Marine Science
    1 day ago
  • Time for Grant Robertson to reveal package #2?
    On March 17, Finance Minister Grant Robertson was quick out of the blocks with an economic rescue package to help businesses through the inevitable recession resulting from the coronavirus pandemic. Robertson had pulled together a scheme in short order that so far seems to have saved many jobs. In his ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    2 days ago
  • Saving lives
    The purpose of the lockdown is to save lives, by reducing the spread of covid-19. We won't know if its really working for another week, but given the devastation that will result if it doesn't - 14,000 dead is the optimistic scenario - its definitely worth trying. But pausing the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 5
    . . March 30: Day five of living in lock-down… Woke up still in darkness. Alarm hadn’t gone off. Turn to radio clock; it’s a few minutes after 6am… I lie there in the dark, waiting to drift off to sleep… but it ain’t happening. Clock ticks over to 6.55 ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    2 days ago
  • Speaker: Les Gray: the man who told the truth
    The story of Les Gray, the public sector psychologist who told the truth about his use of cannabis and set off a storm, has a special place in the lore of cannabis reform in New Zealand.When Paul Shannon interviewed Gray for the 'Dope and Hope' issue of Planet magazine in ...
    2 days ago
  • Why now? Historical specificity and the perfect storm that has created trans identity politics
    by Phil Duncan For Marxists, a key concern about social trends is their context – not just their causes, but why they happen when they do.  Events and phenomena have causes, but they also are time or period-specific. While much of the left have capitulated recently to postmodernism, most notably ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • Time for a living wage for supermarket workers
    Since the lockdown began, we've all suddenly been reminded who the actually essential workers in our society are: not the people at the top who pay themselves the big bucks and rort the perks, but the people at the bottom they screw over and squeeze: cleaners, warehouse staff, truck drivers ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Hard News: MUSIC: Lockdown Grooves
    Kia ora! As I've watched nearly all my remaining work vanish over the past couple of days, it has occured to me that one good way to keep me away from arguing with fools on Twitter all the time (in the knowledge that all we're really doing is processing our ...
    3 days ago
  • A place of greater safety?
    Aotearoa New Zealand has committed to trying to extirpate the virus that causes COVID-19 from its shores. To do that, as a society we’ve moved to “Level 4”. That means adapting to unprecedented restrictions on our personal freedoms, particularly to our rights to move freely and associate with friends and ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    3 days ago
  • The police and public trust
    When the Prime Minister declared a state of emergency last week, she handed the police powers to enforce it. And almost immediately, we started hearing about heavy-handed, arbitrary "enforcement" by police who (at best) cared more about order than law, or (more likely) had no idea what the rules were ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 4
    . . Lock Down: Day 4 – A photo essay with observations . March 29: Usual wake up routine as RNZ snaps on my radio-clock. Jim Mora’s voice slowly enters my conciousness; there’s talk of a second wave of covid19 taking hold in South Korea; the week in Parliament – ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • COVID-19 vs New Zealand
    Yesterday, New Zealand recorded its first Covid-19 related death on the West Coast. Unfortunately this is unlikely to be the only fatality, with the virus now being found in every region of the country.However despite the significant danger, people are still unfortunately breaching lockdown rules.There’s really only one main very ...
    3 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #13
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... ‘Misinformation kills’: The link between coronavirus conspiracies and climate denial   Grist / Rob Kim / Stringer / CSA Images  Scientific ...
    3 days ago
  • Rāhui day 4
    The kids did surprisingly well today – meltdown count was about 3, and mostly fairly short ones. (And a fourth while I was writing.) Game-wise I had a go at Fell Seal: Arbiter’s Mark. It’s a fairly standard RPG with turn-based combat and what they call a “mature storyline” (it ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    3 days ago
  • Letter to a friend
    by Don Franks Hi David, Nice hearing from you, I’m glad to hear you’re getting by okay in these grim times. You asked how’s it going for us back here in New Zealand. You would have heard that the whole country is locked down and with breaks for exercise and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 3
    . . Lock Down: Day 3 – A photo essay with observations . March 28: First day of the first weekend in Lock Down. It feels like it’s been weeks since only Level 3 was declared last Tuesday, only four days ago. Woke up this morning to RNZ; coffee; toast, ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #13
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 22, 2020 through Sat, Mar 28, 2020 Articles Linked to on Facebook Sun, Mar 22, 2020 In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters by Chelsea Harvey, ...
    4 days ago
  • Rāhui day 3
    I’m here in lockdown with my flatmate and her two girls (6 and 2) and it. is. a time. They’re usually really active so to start with the only boardgame in the house is the copy of Guess Who that the 6 year old got for her birthday. Flatmate commented ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    4 days ago
  • A test of civil society.
    The CV-19 (COVID) pandemic has seen the imposition of a government ordered national quarantine and the promulgation of a series of measures designed to spread the burden of pain and soften the economic blow on the most strategically important and most vulnerable sectors of society. The national narrative is framed ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 2
    . . Lock Down: Day 2 – A photo essay with observations . March 27 – Day 2 of our Strange New World. The Park and Ride near my suburb, usually filled with hundreds of vehicles, had just… four; . . Another drive into Wellington City on a highway nearly ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    5 days ago
  • How Do You Feel? What Do You Think?
    Fortune's Children: Under extraordinary pressure, the leader of the Government and the leader of the Opposition will each show us what they are made of. Have they been blessed with intelligence, grace, wit, poise, toughness, empathy and humour – and in what measure? More importantly, to what extent have they ...
    5 days ago
  • Landlords are NOT an essential service
    If you’ve ever had the misfortune of having to rent a property on the open market in New Zealand, which is one of the most expensive in the entire world, you’ll likely be keenly aware of just how arrogant and entitled landlords and their real estate agents can be.Unfortunately for ...
    5 days ago
  • A “new Society” post-COVID19 will definitely emerge. The question is: on what path?
    Society-wise, aside from the specific morbidity shall we say of the medically-oriented aspects of this COVID-19 crisis, what is unfolding before the world is in more than one way an instructive study of humanity and reactions to a high intensity, high stress environment in real time. Friends, we are at ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    5 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: Everything you need to know about the wage subsidy
    Right now low waged and insecure workers are feeling the economic brunt of the looming #Covid19 Recession. In response legal advocate Toby Cooper* and hospitality and worker’s rights advocate Chloe Ann-King, are putting together a series of legal blogs about your employment rights: In this legal blog we outline some ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    6 days ago
  • The massacre of prisoners in Modelo jail, Bogota, March 21
    by Equipo Jurídico Pueblos and Gearóid Ó Loingsigh (25/03/2020) An escape plan in question On the night of March 21st and the early morning of the 22nd, the forces of the Colombian state stormed into the Modelo prison in Bogotá, murdering 23 prisoners and injuring 83, in response to the ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • We are not America
    When the government banned semi-automatic weapons in response to a terrorist atrocity, gun-nuts were outraged. Mired in toxic American gun culture, they thought owning weapons whose sole purpose was killing people was some sort of "constitutional right", a necessity for "defending themselves" against the government. Now, the Court of Appeal ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • When will we know the lockdown is working?
    Just before midnight on Wednesday March 25, Aotearoa New Zealand entered a countrywide alert level four lockdown. For at least the next four weeks, everyone who isn’t an essential worker is confined to their bubble. We are doing this to stop the explosive growth in people contracting and dying from ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    6 days ago
  • Lock Down: Day 1
    . . Lock Down: Day 1 – A photo essay with observations . Day one of the Level 4 nationwide lock-down (or, DefCon 4 as I sometimes cheekily call it) started at 11.59PM on 25 March. For a moment, most of the nation held it’s collective breath. In that brief ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • A Compelling Recollection.
    Broad, Sunlit Uplands: How those words fired my young imagination! Or, perhaps, it is more accurate to say: how those words fused, in my young mind, with the image printed on every packet of Fielder’s Cornflour. Always fascinated by history, especially modern history, I cannot hear Churchill’s wonderfully evocative words, even ...
    6 days ago
  • The Warehouse – where everyone gets a virus
    . . 24 March 2020 9.46AM Number of covid19 cases in Aotearoa New Zealand: 102 . As of 11.59 on Thursday, most of New Zealand will go into “lock down”. People will be expected not to travel to work; not to socialise; and to stay home. I will not be ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • Aggressive action to address climate change could save the world $145 trillion
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections A respected research group, Project Drawdown, finds that deploying solutions consistent with meeting the Paris climate targets would cost tens of trillions of dollars globally. But crucially, those outlays would also yield long-term savings many times larger than the up-front costs. The new 2020 Drawdown ...
    6 days ago
  • After the Pandemic
    It will pass. What happens next? Not immediately, but longer term. There are many opinions, fewer certainties. Will it “change everything!” as many confidently, and contradictorily predict? In this post I look at how foresight can help bound some of the uncertainties so you can more objectively consider the future. ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    7 days ago
  • Coronavirus – Cuba shows the way
    We’ve been meaning t write something on Cuba and the coronavirus but have just discovered a very good article on the subject in the US left publication Jacobin.  The article looks at how Cuba, a poor country but one where capitalism has been done away with, is leading the way ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Using privacy law to prevent the death penalty
    In 2018, El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Kotey - two British citizens who had purportedly been stripped of their citizenship by the British government - were captured while fighting for Isis in Syria. The British government then conspired to hand them over to the US, and agreed to provide evidence ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • It’s Time For Disaster Socialism.
    Transformers: The disaster of the Great Depression was transformed into a new and fairer society by the democratic socialism of the First Labour Government. The disaster of the Covid-19 Pandemic offers a similar transformative possibility to the Labour-NZ First-Green Government. Seize the time, Jacinda! You will never have a better ...
    7 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #12, 2020
    Tamper with The System? Well, we already are. But there's a difference between accidentally trickling sand into a precision gearbox versus formulating a plan to alter it on the fly with improvements in mind. One action is more or less innocently unscrupulous, the other amenable to earning an easy ...
    7 days ago
  • Avoidable hospitalisations: Helping our health system get through COVID-19
    Associate Prof George Thomson, Louise Delany, Prof Nick Wilson While it is possible that New Zealand can use intense public health controls to eradicate COVID-19 from the country – we must also plan for other scenarios where thousands of New Zealanders are sick – including many urgently hospitalised.1 Better resilience ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Raise the Bar: 10 questions to ask your employer proposing redundancy
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or being ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    1 week ago
  • An equitable way to support business
    The Herald reports that the government is planning to lend billions of dollars to large businesses to keep them operating during the pandemic. As with mortgage relief, this is necessary: we need companies to stay in business, to reduce the economic damage and help things get restarted again when this ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Together Alone
    We're about to do something unprecedented as a nation. We hope that by taking this extraordinary action before a single life in New Zealand has been lost to the deadly novel virus we will save tens of thousands of lives. Our  lives. We'll do it together, in households, in isolation ...
    1 week ago
  • Why timing is everything: ‘A time to refrain from embracing’ starts today
    “There is a time for everything,    and a season for every activity under the heavens.”So writes the author of Ecclesiastes, a book in the Old Testament that’s counted as a ‘wisdom’ book and written as if by an unnamed king of Jerusalem. But who would have thought there would be a time ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    1 week ago
  • Dealing with the Covid-19 Tsunami.
    I was surprised when the prime minister described the Economic Response to Covid-19 package as the ‘largest peacetime government spend in New Zealand's history’. Reflecting – checking through history – I realised that the term ‘spend’ was crucial and the package had no income tax cuts. Even so, it has ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • What about renters?
    The government today announced the latest part of its pandemic relief package: a six-month mortgage holiday for people whose incomes have been affected by the pandemic. Which is great, because these people are going to need help, and that's what the government should be doing. At the same time, it ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Living within our means.
    Years ago the Argentine sociologist Carlos Weisman wrote a book titled “Living within our Means.” It was a critique of Argentine society that focused on the paradoxical question of why, in a land of plenty, there was so much economic instability, inequality, corruption and political turmoil. His conclusion was basically ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Transparency and the pandemic
    Parliament will be leading by example and adjourning tomorrow after a special sitting to consider an epidemic notice and state of emergency. Day-to-day oversight of the government will be delegated to a select committee. But that's not the only overight mechanism. The OIA will still be law, and (so far) ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘Overjoyed’: a leading health expert on New Zealand’s coronavirus shutdown, and the challengin...
    Michael Baker, University of Otago Overjoyed. That’s not a word epidemiologists normally use, but that’s how I felt after hearing Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s announcement about New Zealand’s COVID-19 shutdown of everything except essential services for at least four weeks from midnight on Wednesday. More than anything, I just ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • One way to solve the housing crisis
    How much homelessness is caused by house hoarding? We're about to find out. The pandemic has destroyed tourism, which means that house hoarders who put their hoarded properties up as short-term tourist rentals are now offering them on the ordinary rental market:Property investors are pulling properties from Airbnb to offer ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The pros and cons of planting trees to address global warming
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bruce Lieberman It seems like such a simple, straightforward, empowering idea: plant trees – a lot of trees – all over the world, and watch the planet’s temperature fall. Who doesn’t love a tree or two, even far more – the right ...
    1 week ago
  • Not a grand coalition, but a government of national salvation
    According to Newshub, Simon Bridges is open to joining a “grand coalition” with Labour as we hunker down to go into a month long lockdown. The idea is sound. Before now, the role of the opposition was to scrutinise and oppose. In the context of what almost amounts to a ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Raise the Bar: hospitality workers & wage subsidy entitlements
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    1 week ago
  • Lifting our game against COVID-19
    We need to be lifting our game against COVID-19. You and I need to help those working to prevent the spread of COVID-19 while they’re trying to lift the testing and treatment efforts. We don’t want to be playing this game running backwards. Best to play it solidly forward, from ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    1 week ago
  • The maths and ethics of minimising COVID-19 deaths in NZ
    Prof Tony Blakely, Prof Michael Baker, and Prof Nick Wilson The NZ Government must do more to clearly articulate its COVID-19 strategy: eradication or ‘flattening the curve’ mitigation. But to do so means understanding the maths and ethics of both these strategies. In this blog, we adapt our work for ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • All aboard the Covid Train
    A few days ago I was starting to write something about the pandemic, which now seems unconscionable. It took the form of a letter to an agony aunt:“Dear Deidre, I have an ugly confession. I am quite excited by Covid-19.”This is how the piece went:“I’m not a psychopath, honest. Although the ...
    PunditBy Phil Vine
    1 week ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #12
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Climate Feedback Article Review... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Reviews... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters The likelihood of extreme events ...
    1 week ago
  • We are all socialists now
    Last week, the government announced a $12 billion initial package to support people during the pandemic. Today, the Reserve Bank is buying government bonds - effectively printing money - to keep up the money supply during the crisis. Normally such moves would have the right apoplectic. Instead, the National Party ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A plea to experts: safeguard your role in public life
    I am a pundit, somebody who opines and comments on the news. There are no real qualifications to punditry though having a rudimentary way with words and good general knowledge helps. That is one reason there is a constant oversupply of would-be pundits and why it is quite hard to ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Enlightenment when?
    I recently encountered the following prescription from a Faculty of Education at a leading New Zealand University. At first I wondered if it was another product of the postmodern generator (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/), designed to create gibberish in the postmodern form, but I’m told it is real: The “schooled” society: Towards the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    2 weeks ago
  • What the Crisis Can teach Us
    The coronavirus pandemic has of course had a major impact on individual lives and on societies as a whole. But, long after the crisis has passed (assuming it does), we will begin to realise that its real and lasting significance lies in the lessons it has taught us, if only ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Hammering home measures to stop COVID-19
    COVID-19 has plunged Aotearoa New Zealand (indeed, the world) into territory that, while maybe not totally unprecedented, certainly hasn’t been seen during the lifetimes of most of us here today. Our borders are closed to non-citizens, we’re being told not to gather in groups of more than 500 outside/100 inside, ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    2 weeks ago
  • What does ‘level two’ mean – and why does it matter?
    For the last few weeks, I’ve been urging you to prepare yourself, your family, business, and community for Covid-19. Now it’s time for real action.  Yesterday the director-general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield announced another 13 confirmed cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand, bringing our total to date to 52. ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    2 weeks ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #12
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 15, 2020 through Sat, Mar 21, 2020 Editor's Pick Now Isn’t the Time to Forget About Our Climate Change Efforts   Tasha Tilberg, Lindsey Wixson, and Liu Wen photographed ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Is the Guardian becoming  a real newspaper again?
    by Jan Rivers The article has been corrected to show that it was Ewen MacAskill, former Guardian journalist and not Luke Harding who travelled to meet Edward Snowden with journalist Glenn Greenwald and filmmaker Laura Poitras.  Some of the Guardian’s well-known journalists who did not sign the protest letter are ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Life asserts itself regardless
    by Cultural Worker Late March 2020 amidst the virus. With gigs crashing and burning all around it was without much hope that I called a long standing rest home booking: “ Hi, I’m supposed to be entertaining at your place this afternoon – is it still on?” “”If you don’t ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics, the possible, and the pandemic
    Whenever people demand real change from their politicians, we're told that "politics is the art of the possible". The implication is that change isn't possible, so we'd better just get used to the sucky status quo. But now that there's a pandemic, a lot of things we were previously told ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
    Businesses can start applying to their banks for loans under the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme set up to support the New Zealand economy during the COVID-19 pandemic. “We’re moving quickly to protect New Zealand businesses, jobs and the economy during this unprecedented global economic shock,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
    Work is underway looking at measures to speed up consents for development and infrastructure projects during the recovery from COVID 19, to provide jobs and stimulate our economy.  Environment Minister David Parker said the COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis that will have a wide ranging and lasting impact ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
    Advance payments will be made to transport construction industry contractors to retain the workforce and ensure it is ready to quickly gear up to build projects which will be vital to New Zealand’s COVID-19 economic recovery, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. He said keeping the workforce required to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
    The Government has tasked a group of industry leaders to seek out infrastructure projects that are ready to start as soon as the construction industry returns to normal to reduce the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones say. The Infrastructure ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
    Work to scale up the health system in preparation for COVID-19 was today outlined by Health Minister David Clark, as he reported back to the new Epidemic Response Committee. “We are well placed to contain the spread of COVID-19. We have taken early and decisive action at our borders, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
    The Government is refining its COVID-19 essential business guidance to include the distribution of news publications for communities which are hard to reach. The Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media, Kris Faafoi, said the move was in recognition of the importance for New Zealanders who might be harder to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
    The Government has fast-tracked up to $1 million to help Air New Zealand move urgent freight to and from New Zealand, with the first flight to Shanghai leaving tonight, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says it’s crucial that trade in vital goods such as medical supplies and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
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    1 week ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
    New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 3 – Restrict New Zealand to move up to COVID-19 Alert Level 4 – Eliminate, in 48 hours Two-staged approach to give people and businesses time to prepare  Level 3, from tomorrow Non-essential businesses must close All events and gatherings must be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
    Good afternoon  The Cabinet met this morning to discuss our next actions in the fight against COVID-19.  Like the rest of the world, we are facing the potential for devastating impacts from this virus. But, through decisive action, and through working together, do we have a small window to get ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt takes significant economic decisions as NZ readies for Alert Level 4 in COVID-19 fight
    The Government is announcing significant further support for the economy, workers and businesses as the country unites to prepare for Alert Level 4 in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet today agreed to remove the cap on the Government’s wage subsidy scheme, which will inject a further $4 billion into the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt backs RBNZ move to support economy with lower interest rates
    The Government is backing the Reserve Bank’s latest action to support the economy by reducing longer-term interest rates, meaning lower costs for businesses and mortgage holders, and a lower currency to help our exporters. The Minister of Finance has signed a memorandum of understanding and a letter of indemnity with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government statement on commercial cooperation during COVID-19
    The Government has asked the Commerce Commission to take account of the exceptional circumstances created by COVID-19 when monitoring business behaviour in coming weeks.   “The purpose of my request to the Commerce Commission is to make sure businesses can work together in ways that will allow them to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand temporarily closes diplomatic posts in Barbados and Myanmar due to COVID-19
    The New Zealand Government has temporarily closed its High Commission in Bridgetown, Barbados and its Embassy in Yangon, Myanmar due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “Due to the increasing scarcity of air links in and out of Bridgetown and Yangon, and the pressure COVID-19 is placing ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Supporting Māori communities and businesses through
    Associate Health and Whānau Ora Minister Peeni Henare has today announced the Government’s plan to support Māori communities and businesses in the face of COVID-19. “Our Government’s $12.1 billion economic package will help many Māori whānau, workers and businesses, whether it’s through wage subsidies, income support and worker redeployment, or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Guidelines for hospitality establishments released
    The Government and the hospitality industry have worked together to produce guidelines to assist with managing and reducing transmission of COVID-19, Health Minister David Clark announced today.  The guidelines developed between the Government, Hospitality New Zealand and SkyCity Entertainment Group, set out how the new restrictions on physical distancing and ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • Nation steps up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2
    Four stage Alert System for COVID-19 announced New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 2 – Reduce Contact New Zealanders over 70 and those with certain medical conditions told to stay at home as much as they can to reduce risk of contact with the virus Workplaces to implement ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago