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The Herald thinks Jacinda Ardern is a Marxist

Written By: - Date published: 8:38 am, December 13th, 2017 - 204 comments
Categories: capitalism, class war, democracy under attack, jacinda ardern, labour, making shit up, Media, newspapers, Politics, socialism, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: ,

It is going to be a long three years plus if this keeps up.

The Herald has suggested in this article the author has not put their name to that Jacinda Ardern is a Marxist, but the logic used is sadly lacking.

The evidence that our Prime Minister wants to socialise the means of production?  To put it mildly it is pretty tenuous.

First up was a reference to Dr Richard Horton who wrote recently for the medical journal the Lancet.

From the Herald:

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is being used as a poster-child for Marxist ideas in a prestigious British medical journal.

In a November editorial for The Lancet, editor Dr Richard Horton discusses the impact of Marxism on the health sector. He doesn’t actually call Ardern a Marxist, but suggests that she has opened the door for Marxist ideas to be debated.

“More and more people, especially younger generations, believe that economies based only on free markets are not necessarily the best means to deliver fairer or healthier societies,” Horton writes.

“New Zealand’s new Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, noted last month that, ‘When you allow markets to decide the fate of your people … that does not serve a country or people well.’ Marxist ideas have re-entered the political debate.”

But is Jacinda really a poster child for Marxist ideas?  What she was saying and Horton was highlighting was that rampant free market capitalism does not serve the best interests of our society.  Horton said that it was good that marxist ideas are debated.  And I agree with him because the evidence is perfectly clear that rampant market forces can be socially disastrous.  The logic of the market is that your kids should be working for a pittance cleaning chimneys.  Or your grandmother.

That was the most sensible part of the article.

It then quotes Carlos D’Abrera who writes for the Australian Spectator.

That the millennial Ms Ardern should be considered a ‘go-to’ authority on such matters should trouble Kiwis and Marxists alike.

I think the Herald should read it again.  I don’t think it says what the Herald writer thinks it says.  D’Abrera was saying that Ardern clearly is not a Marxist.

Then failed Health Minister and cigar smoke blower Jonathan Coleman chipped in, claiming that ruling out of PPPs makes you a communist.

National’s health spokesman Jonathan Coleman brought up The Lancet editorial during Question Time [yesterday] while asking about whether the Government would support a public-private partnership for building Dunedin Hospital.

In ruling out a PPP, Coleman asked if that was why “the world’s oldest medical journal says in its November editorial that, with Jacinda Ardern, Marxist ideas have re-entered the political debate in health?”

PPPs are a disaster because they always cost the taxpayer more in the long term than they do in the short term.  Investors expect a premium.  If you are the Crown and can borrow at cheap interest rates you should always do this.  Unless the goal is to enrich the top 1%.

Strange though that being fiscally responsible should be equated with being a marxist.

Intellectual giant Leighton Smith was quoted:

Newstalk ZB host Leighton Smith made similar observations after watching a speech from 2009 when Ardern headed the International Union of Socialist Youth, where she used the word “comrade” several times.

“Comrades this, comrades that. Comrades means something,” Smith said.

“She said this morning it doesn’t mean anything, it’s just – I’m sorry, it does. Comrades means something. It is actually a Marxist term. And you don’t pick that sort of thing up because you’re not a Marxist.”

Some of us on the left of the Labour Party still use the phrase “comrade” as a term of endearment.

The idiot farmer that had the “she’s a pretty communist” sign during the election campaign gets a mention.

And a Rupert Murdoch publication The Australian is referred to with its headline in “Kiwis now led by a commie as Ardern attacks capitalism and embraces socialist roots.”

So a misinterpretation of a UK medical article, a failed cigar blowing former Health Minister, a talk back host who thinks if you use the word “comrade” you want to line the owners of capital up against a wall and shoot them and take their shares, a farmer who would not know a communist if they polluted one and the rantings of a right wing paper owned by a megalomaniac are relied on by our major daily to claim that our current Prime Minister wants to nationalise the means of production.

The article concludes with a statement that the Prime Minister’s office declined to make a statement.  Probably because they could not believe how banal and crazy the article was.

Please Herald can’t you do better than this.

204 comments on “The Herald thinks Jacinda Ardern is a Marxist”

  1. Ad 1

    What we will see tomorrow in the budget prioritization is a pretty strongly redistributive government. A socialist government.

    – Big increase in accommodation supplement
    – Winter fuel allowance
    – Generally big expansion of welfare, particularly on child welfare
    – Huge expansions in health spending
    – Huge expansions in public housing spending

    I don’t think they have the first clue what to do about the business or exporting communities. Robertson in particular gives me absolutely no confidence at all that he has a will to transform the economy.

    But with headline unemployment so low, GDP growth sustained, and a seriously massive surplus, they really don’t have to have a clue for quite a while.

    Prime Minister Ardern is going to spend money on poor and struggling families.

    That’s what I voted for.

    A socialist.

    • BM 1.1

      -Big increase in accommodation supplement

      Landlords will be stoked, they’ll be able to raise rents significantly.

      • paul andersen 1.1.1

        havent you got kittens to drown?

        • greywarshark 1.1.1.1

          Cut that, this is a blog that chooses what and who o offend and kittens aren’t it.

      • cleangreen 1.1.2

        BM= Bullshit Master.

      • Priss 1.1.3

        “Landlords will be stoked, they’ll be able to raise rents significantly.” – BM, @ 13.12.17 9.35am

        You’re right, BM. Instead we need to implement a capital gains tax (set it at 24% min), raise taxes on the rich, and tax corporates like Apple, Google, FB, etc.

        Then spend the money to build 50,000 new states houses.

        Sorted.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.4

        Innumerate parrot thinks market prices are set by suppliers.

        • BM 1.1.4.1

          Andrew Little:

          As a means of assistance it is pretty crude and in times of a housing shortage … simply ploughing more money into assisting people to pay their rapidly rising rent actually in the long run is going to force rents up.

          https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/331777/govt-pulled-u-turn-on-accommodation-supplement

          Any increase in accommodation supplement is a green light to put up rents as much as you can.

        • Michael 1.1.4.2

          When it comes to rented acommodation, the suppliers do set the market price because they can manipulate it. On the demand side, everyone needs somewhere to live and, if the supply is limited (whether artificially or not), tenants have to pay what the landlord demands. Or else they sleep in their cars (if they are rich enough to own one, that is). I think these factors explain why the laissez faire approach to housing has been such a miserable failure (except for landlords, letting agents and other sundry parasites) and why we need central government to resume its role as the primary supplier of social accommodation. Not that I’m really expecting anything substantive along those lines to be announced tomorrow, mindful as I am of how many Labour/NZFirst MPs are landlords.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.4.2.1

            tenants have to pay what the landlord demands. Or else they sleep in their cars

            …and demand diminishes every time that happens…

            Theoretically, that is (cf: ghost houses, property speculation, and population increase via permanent migration).

            • BM 1.1.4.2.1.1

              Demand is far outstripping supply, it’s still a landlords market.

              The white knight that is Kiwi build is still years away if it actually ever fronts.

              In the meantime, people will grizzle and moan and blame whoever is in power for their predicament.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                I agree. Demand still outstrips supply.

                That’s why the government, citing its obligations under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, should declare a state of emergency and employs emergency powers to house people.

                That would be a bold step to take, and I don’t think they have it in them. It would, however, be very, very popular: too many ghost houses John.

      • Adrian Thornton 1.1.5

        +1 “-Big increase in accommodation supplement
        Landlords will be stoked, they’ll be able to raise rents significantly.”

    • alwyn 1.2

      You nominate that the mini budget tomorrow will include a winter fuel allowance.
      It will, apparently, be available to anyone getting National Super. Those eligible will, apparently, have to go through the hassle of having to apply.
      WHY?
      Why can’t they just pay it to every person getting National Super? The only reason I can see for making people apply is to give Robbo a chance to provide forms saying how kind the Labour Party are being to pensioners or alternatively having WINZ try and shame people into not applying.
      Why waste millions on the application process? Just pay it out directly.

      • Pat 1.2.1

        Perhaps to allow those without the need to decline the offer….after all we’re all for freedom of choice are we not?

      • JanM 1.2.2

        All very well, but I, for one, am not on the grid

        • alwyn 1.2.2.1

          “All very well, but I, for one, am not on the grid”

          What does that have to do with it?
          You don’t have to spend it on electricity or anything. They are just going to put some money into your account. It is just a way to be able to claim that they are keeping the poor old pensioner from getting cold in an incredibly inefficient way.
          I wouldn’t be surprised if the cost of administering the scheme is 20% of the cost of the grant, if you take into account the work having to be done by the people applying for it.
          Just pay it to everyone and stop wasting time and effort on trying to get publicity for themselves.

          • Cinny 1.2.2.1.1

            Not on the grid still means a person has to grow/gather/find/collect/cut/split/dry/stack and even buy fire wood to heat their home and often their hot water. JS

          • lprent 1.2.2.1.2

            Compared to what?

            Things like unemployment benefit have overhead costs in the order of 50% overhead cost. Let’s fix up the idiotic punitive overhead costs instead.

            Quite where you get 20% from is beyond me (please do not describe it – I have no interest in your large colon). It sounds like a simple single application to receive it. Just like the superannuation. And if you think that takes 20% overhead then I’d have to consider ghat you really do have your head up your large colon (and I know where you can get a bridge with a simple upfront down payment).

            Were you born this stupid? Or did you have to work hard to become it. It sounds to.me like you did the hard yards to downgrade your inate abilities to become typical (stupid) national support..

            • alwyn 1.2.2.1.2.1

              Wow! What went wrong with your morning?
              And my colon is just fine thanks.

            • cleangreen 1.2.2.1.2.2

              100% Iprent summed up beautifully.

              Some people just dont get it.

              They live only in a ficticious parallel ‘world.’
              ,

      • David Mac 1.2.3

        Many folk won’t apply for it. Nor would they send it back if it appeared in their accounts. Means testing by WINZ appointment reluctance.

      • Obtrectator 1.2.4

        “Why waste millions on the application process?”

        ‘Cos I for one wouldn’t need that allowance – and there’s plenty of others as well.

        • alwyn 1.2.4.1

          Then just send the money back. You are allowed to make donations to the State you know.
          I think it would be far more efficient if the few people who get National Super and don’t want the extra money to simply donate it back than that the people who want it, and need it, should have to waste all the time and effort on applying for it.

          As far as your comment about “plenty” of others, I doubt it.
          There seem to be only about 10,000 people in New Zealand who are not in the work force who have an income over about $98,000/year.
          There are about 40,000 people over 65 in New Zealand on the same income.
          There seem to be only a very few (less than 3%) of people over 65 who do not get either National Super or a Veterans pension.
          I think that most people would take and, if they are not working, who would need the extra money.

          I can’t give you a good source for those numbers I’m afraid. They are what I see in a variety of Google enquiries on NZ statistics. It isn’t a field that I have anything much to do with.

          By the way. Do you qualify for National Super, and if so do you claim it. If you don’t qualify I suspect your views may change when you become eligible. You do, unless you are very rich, need it when you retire. Things like maintaining you home have to be paid for. You don’t climb ladders the way you used to.

          • David Mac 1.2.4.1.1

            Your comment starts by suggesting people just send the portion of their pension they don’t require back to the government and ends with the reasons why they won’t.

            • alwyn 1.2.4.1.1.1

              I was suggesting that one specific person, Obtrectator, could send it back if he/she didn’t need it.
              Oh, damn it. I’ll use “he” from now on.
              He stated “Cos I for one wouldn’t need that allowance”.
              I then extended it to show that I very much doubt that the second part of the statement
              “and there’s plenty of others as well”
              probably isn’t true.

              Of course most people won’t send it back, for the reasons I gave.
              It doesn’t prevent our adequately earning individual doing whatever HE likes though.

              • David Mac

                There are many elderly that live in rest homes etc. Their heating is a component of a package deal. Granny flats and family picking up the power/firewood bill.

                Yes there will be admin, training etc costs to put an honesty box at the gate. Rather than sending it to every 65+er, I think the money saved will outweigh the overhead.

                • alwyn

                  Have you seen what the charges are in many rest homes?
                  I have heard figures of $1,000/week as being quite common.
                  They would probably need the money the most.

      • The only reason I can see for making people apply is to give Robbo a chance to provide forms saying how kind the Labour Party…

        I recall National doing exactly the same. And, in fact, often claiming what the previous Labour government had done as their own on their PR.

        I don’t recall you whinging about it then.

        • alwyn 1.2.5.1

          I don’t actually remember National doing such a thing but it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.
          The main reason it wouldn’t stand out is that it would be in the nature of a “dog bites man” type of story and wouldn’t be at all memorable.
          The “Man bites dog” story would be if a Government didn’t do such a thing.
          What occasion did you have in mind of National doing it?

          • Draco T Bastard 1.2.5.1.1

            The “Man bites dog” story would be if a Government didn’t do such a thing.
            What occasion did you have in mind of National doing it?

            the most obvious was Blinglish telling the country that it was all because of the previous government that we had such great economic strength.

            And then, within a month, claiming that it was all because of National’s great economic handling.

    • DH 1.3

      “I don’t think they have the first clue what to do about the business or exporting communities. ”

      The $NZD has held 5% lower since the new Govt came into power. Ask exporters what they’d like for Xmas

      • Ad 1.3.1

        Agree with that.
        Nothing to do with this government.

      • alwyn 1.3.2

        And you could also ask importers, and the people who have to pay for imported goods what they think about it.
        Petrol could be cheaper, for example. So could the computer you are using to make your comments.

        There seems to be a great deal of confusion about the benefits of exporting goods, The reason we want to export things is solely so that we can buy imports. The less we can export, and the higher the price in foreign currency we can get for those exports the better off we will be.
        Exporting for the sake of exporting is not “good” for us. The “good” is the imports we can buy.

        • DH 1.3.2.1

          That’s a weird argument. We need to export more to help fund our balance of payments deficit, it’s not just about exports and imports.

          • alwyn 1.3.2.1.1

            Of course it is about exports and imports.
            The reason we export things, if we are being sensible, is only so that we can import things. Sure it may be desirable to have a balance of imports and exports overall but that’s all that we need.
            Why would we really want to export more that we import?
            The only thing we will end up with is foreign currency in overseas accounts. In the meantime we will have a lower standard of living than we could have achieved.
            I can see no reason at all for that to happen just so that we can invest in other countries economies.

            • DH 1.3.2.1.1.1

              You’re just being silly there alwyn. Look up NZs balance of payments data, it’s downloadable from stats.

              • alwyn

                I don’t see the point you are trying to make.
                Are you simply saying that we don’t export as much as we import, which certainly is a reason for exporting more.
                On the other hand I read your comment above, where you say “it’s not just about exports and imports” as being an argument for exporting more as being a justification for increasing exports even if they already cover our import bill.
                What exactly are you arguing for? Please enlighten me as to your point of view.

                • DH

                  Is it that you can’t see my point alwyn, or that you don’t want to admit you haven’t thought it through.

                  It was simple enough, I reminded you that exports don’t just pay for imports. The export earnings can also help service NZs overseas debt and pay the dividends to overseas investors.

                  • alwyn

                    I was talking about what a country should do. They only need to export enough to pay for the imports they want.
                    They do of course have to export enough to do that. If they don’t export enough they get into the situation you are talking about. We only have to pay interest, and capital on our borrowings, and dividends on foreign owned businesses because we imported MORE than we exported.
                    You will note that I wanted to export enough to pay for all our imports. Not doing so has caused the problem you mention, and we are going to have to clear it up but once we have done so my prescription certainly applies.

        • Nic the NZer 1.3.2.2

          Your already on pretty shaky ground arguing that exporting more makes imports cheaper. If we have a negative current account balance this implies we are ‘exporting’ NZ currency overseas. In the event overseas holders are unhappy to hold $NZ then our exchange rate may depreciate, but NZ’s exchange rate and ability to import more goods typically implies overseas exporters are more than happy with their end of the deal.

          While equilibrium theoretical economics models may imply that this shift in the exchange rate will occur there are plenty of counter examples of countries running multi-decade balance of payments deficits without depreciating exchange rates. This implies the theoretical result is scientifically speaking, wrong.

  2. Ed 2

    Liked this comment by Tautoko Mangō Mata

    Open Mike 13/12/2017

  3. roy 3

    Someone used the word ‘I’. You don’t pick up that sort of language without being some kind of Hyper-Randian, Neo-libertarianist, every-man-is-an-island, sociophobe.

    • cleangreen 3.2

      Agreed, Roy hit the nail on the head.

      “I” represents a self interested ‘self centered’ person.

      It fits exactly like that one that often uses “I” such as you said.

      Some can’t get over loosing can they.

      They must grind away relentlessly arguing to the point of stupidity it must be habitual every time they see Labour in charge now.

  4. JanM 4

    Just as well we are over the election – we might have been treated to dancing cossacks again!

  5. Matthew Whitehead 5

    It’s really stretching of the Spectator to call Ardern a millenial, by-the-by. Born in 1980, she’s really at the tail end of Gen X, as she had already come of age before the new millennium. I’ve seen the cutoff as high as my own birth year, before, and as low as ’82, but never at ’80.

    As for her being a marxist- we can talk if she ever agrees to nationalize anything, okay? Until then it’s off the table for discussion, and is just a flat “no.” She’s not radical enough to be a marxist.

  6. patricia bremner 6

    Micky, to say the “Herald thinks” is an oxymoron. LOL.

    They just quote the latest meme.

    Ask “Who does this garbage help?”

    Then “Follow the money trail all the way to the gingerbread house”.

  7. DH 7

    That article is nearly incoherent, a child could construct a better argument.

    The Lancet refers to Ardern once in an article discussing marxism and that makes her a marxist. It must be true because Leighton Smith called her marxist back in 2009. Whoops, no, she’s a communist. A farmer and an aussie newspaper called her that so she’s a commie. Seriously?

  8. Anne 8

    I’m making an assumption here, but that article has the footprint of John Roughan.

    The huge irony is that these home-grown right-wing media lunatics grew up in an apparent “Marxist” state. According to their interpretations, NZ was a Marxist state for 50 years (1935 – 1985) under both National and Labour governments.

    I don’t believe the Prime Minister’s office should remain silent if this type of absurd claptrap continues. There are too many uninformed and gullible people who will swallow it if there is no response – especially those who were born after the introduction of neoliberalism.

    And btw, Phil Goff still frequently uses the word ‘comrade’ at Labour functions. Just saying.

    • comrade mickysavage 8.1

      Me too. Think I might change my name for the day …

      • Anne 8.1.1

        Good one. There’s no better response than to laugh at them.

        • OnceWasTim 8.1.1.1

          Yep.
          I don’t think the NZ Herald has got the memo yet – there’s a new king in town and she often wears a dress.
          Tanz and others are still wanking themselves over JFK and his disciples whilst singing ‘hark the herald Angels sing’

        • cleangreen 8.1.1.2

          Yes laughter sooths the soul Anne, spot on.

      • Ed 8.1.2

        Comrade is a lovely way of greeting people.

      • alwyn 8.1.3

        I think it suits you. Not just for the day. Change it by deed poll.

        Actually if you wanted a good laugh the funny sight from the British Labour Party in the old days when Harold Wilson was leader used to be at the end of their conference when the leadership were all up on the stage.
        They then sang the Red Flag. Harold, an Old Oxonian, clearly hadn’t got the slightest idea of the words.
        Corbyn can get away with this but Harold certainly couldn’t.
        From 1969.

    • JanM 8.2

      But does the Marxist description produce the same ‘nervous nellie’ reaction it would have once? Aren’t most of those old duffers dead or senile by now? (with the notable exception of a few Waikato ferals and a stray right wing commentator or two).
      I really think this is going to turn out to be a very damp squib – I don’t sense waves of horror and outrage emanating from the populace at large.

  9. savenz 9

    Even though Jacinda is being labeled a ‘marxist by right wingers she still beats Bill in preferred PM. Ha ha.

    • cleangreen 9.1

      Point well taken savnz.

      Jacinda is a good soul with a well meaning humanistic compassion.

      Wer should all embrace her care for us all.

      Even the naysayers.

  10. One Two 10

    Does Murdoch still own The Lancet?

    • alwyn 10.1

      Your imagination is running away with you.
      The Lancet has been owned since 1991 by the Dutch publisher Elsevier.
      As far as I know Murdoch has nothing to do with them.
      Mind you, they are even more avaricious than is our Rupert.
      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/aug/29/academic-publishers-murdoch-socialist
      Good try at distraction, by the way, but no cigar.

      • Anne 10.1.1

        One Two was just asking a question alwyn.

        • alwyn 10.1.1.1

          Yes, he did put a question mark on the statement.
          However when you ask “Does Murdoch still own The Lancet?” you are certainly claiming that he did own the Lancet at some point in the past.
          When was that?

      • One Two 10.1.2

        I should have been more explicit through use of the word ‘own’

        It was more a question of conflicts of interest between former CEO of Reed Elsevier, GSK board members including Murdoch, and the papers owned and controlled by Murdoch as mentioned in the article being discussed..

        It was, as pointed out to you by others..

        Just a question!

        • cleangreen 10.1.2.1

          No poiint treating some as human beings it seems One two,

          Some are showing such ‘bitterness’.

          They are so very very sadly ready to tear into anyone who shows humanity as you just have and I fro one are with you as you are not alone. We are many.

          • One Two 10.1.2.1.1

            Hello cleangreen

            I genuinely believe that we must be the change we wish to see in this world…

            Individually we must continue to self reflect and self evaluate, make adjustments to our reactionary mechanisms as necessary..

            Until ‘we’ become accepting of even the most emotive triggers in this life, and be able to manage those triggers with dignity and mindfulness..

            As you point out, there are many, but not yet enough for the tipping effect..

            It is happening, and the chaos and confusion is an indicator of that…

            All the best

  11. These arseholes wouldn’t know Marxism if you gave them a copy of Marxism for Beginners and quizzed them on it after they’d read it. It’s just lazy abuse, like calling everyone right of Metiria Turei ‘neoliberal.’

  12. Stephen Doyle 12

    To be honest, I don’t think the Herald can do better. They are now the Daily Mail of NZ. The likes of decent journalists like Matt Nippert and David Fisher must struggle to justify their employer sometimes.

  13. Enough is Enough 13

    And her being a Marxist would be bad for what reason Greg?

    We can only dream about her being the person that destroyed capitalism and the selfish and dishonest society that it creates.

    Sadly I think she will be bullied by the National Party and corporate media into embracing capitalism.

    • David Mac 13.1

      If capitalism was crushed tomorrow, by Saturday the loudest noise in NZ would be rumbling tummies.

      Me swapping some of my apples for your apricots is not fundamentally wrong. The government doesn’t need to own our trees. We’re doing it wrong.

      • mauī 13.1.1

        If the world was shrunk down to a total of 100 people current capitalism would not be at all acceptable. The bottom 50 people being as wealthy as the top 1 person, 5 kids living without some of the basics, 10-20 people living in extreme hardship. The entire village working under hard conditions put in place by that wealthiest 1.

        There is no way with people knowing eachother those conditions would be allowed to remain.

  14. David Mac 14

    I think as a breed our nation is too socially aligned to warm to the idea of walking in to be healed under a SERCO HEALTH sign.

    SERCO HEALTH….it’s an oxymoron.

    If desiring a health system that rotates around an axis of compassion and care rather than money makes us red and under the bed, label away.

  15. Bill 15

    I think Bryan Gould’s has two articles from October that cover this (and more!) off quite well. I’ve linked them before, and I’ll probably link them in the future too.

    when the left does somehow overcome the odds, and wins power (perhaps by promising not to “tax and spend”), they spend most of their time trying to prove that they are just as cautious and “responsible” as the most doctrinaire of free-marketeers. Ministers of finance in left governments, from Michael Cullen in New Zealand to Gordon Brown in the UK, have almost always staked their reputations on “earning the trust” of the business community, thereby foregoing the possibility of implementing a left programme that would serve the interests of working people. Grant Robertson, Finance Minister in Labour’s incoming New Zealand government, has committed himself in exactly these terms.

    I’d say that’s the reality, and certainly when compared to John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn, Grant Robertson and Jacinda Ardern are way off to the starboard. And the job of vested interests is to keep reminding them that any notion they may have of tacking to port would be a very bad idea.

    Best way to ensure they keep to their present course is to keep them running and defending themselves from accusations that they’ve already turned. How long (it might have already happened) before Ardern and/or Robertson shite all over suggestions they are in any way Marxist in a way that disavows Marxism and makes it well nigh impossible to do anything that might be tainted with even the most spurious comparison to Marxism…including then, just fairly run of the mill social democratic priorities (not that I believe NZ Labour has any ambition in that direction anyway)?

  16. red-blooded 16

    This Herald article is basically just a fluff piece, pulling together a little bit of gossip from here and linking it to a bit of uninformed ranting from there. It’s the kind of thing newspapers save up for the slow news days. Nobody’s going to be influenced by it – there’s no argument put forward and no coherent line of thought explored. People who assume any Labour leader is communist with a big “C” are going to have their assumptions reinforced and others are going to turn away with a sneer (or a sigh), knowing that it’s a vacuous bit of crap.

    • Bill 16.1

      It serves a purpose. (See above)

    • Ed 16.2

      Sadly some people still fall for this nonsense.
      The medi needs urgent nod rdical reform.

      • cleangreen 16.2.1

        I put it to you that the media needs urgent radical reform.

        Corporate media is trying to change our Government at their will, and I think this is equal to foriegn intervention in our democracy and they should be a taken down legally for this.

        No Media should be intervening in our political system, it should only provide information but not slander our elected politicians.

  17. Philg 17

    Is this the beginning of MSM smearing of our PM? It’s rubbish, but repeat it many times and people will start believing it.

  18. jcuknz 18

    I have never been particularly worried about communism because the concept is good.
    The problem is the basic human element of wanting to be top dog although there are a few who do not bother. This means that you find a similar structure of haves and have-nots in both capitalism and communism. In government and private employment.

    • Anne 18.1

      This means that you find a similar structure of haves and have-nots in both capitalism and communism.

      Yes. I go along with that. In fact it was an observation of mine as a young woman in the 70s… they’re both as bad as one another.

      • David Mac 18.1.1

        Yes, it’s a beaut idea. Colonies of ants and bees achieve astounding feats. It fails because we just can’t help from being human. Hopefully we’re on a path of getting better at managing that.

        • greywarshark 18.1.1.1

          A bit of philosophy about the individual that is still questing for meaning beyond consumerism and capital accretion.
          (I put in meanings as these words are not in the daily throng of words we use as a rule.)
          ontological – dealing with the nature of being
          exigency – an urgent need or demand

          On Gabriel (Honore) Marcel
          Thus, ontological exigence is a need and a demand for some level of coherence in the cosmos and for some understanding of our place and role within this coherence. It is the combination of wonder and the attendant desire, not to understand the entire cosmos, but to understand something of one’s own place in it.[4]

          Note that, for Marcel, ontological exigence is not merely a “wish” for being or coherence, but is an “interior urge” or “appeal.” “Otherwise stated, the [ontological] exigence is not reducible to some psychological state, mood, or attitude a person has; it is rather a movement of the human spirit that is inseparable from being human” (Keen 1984, p. 105).
          https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marcel/

      • Ross 18.1.2

        Or as someone once opined: Under capitalism its a dog eat dog world; under commumism it’s the other way round.

  19. Kevin 19

    I wonder if that farmer was a dairy farmer supplying the neo-communist organisation Fonterra.

  20. halfcrown 20

    Who gives a fuck what that pathetic excuse for shithouse paper thinks!

  21. Comrades means something. It is actually a Marxist term.

    Yes, it does mean something but perhaps Smith should pick up an English dictionary and actually check out what the meaning of the word comrade means:

    old-fashioned UK comrade-in-arms a friend, especially one who you have been involved in difficult or dangerous, usually military, activities with:
    Many of his comrades were killed in the battle.

    Not a Marxist term at all.

    Please Herald can’t you do better than this.

    They probably think that they’re doing great in getting in an attack in on Ardern and raising the fears of the populace.

  22. Anne 22

    In the nine years of the National-led government, I don’t recall a single instance where the Herald writers or any other MSM writers wrote articles suggesting that John Key led a Fascist government. So why the imbecilic notion that the Labour-led government is a Marxist government.

    It is no more a Communist (which is the intended inference) government than National was a Fascist government.

    • cleangreen 22.1

      True Anne,

      Media has an agenda clearly to provide a shelter from critisism from the press as long as they are told to do so = ‘corrupt media’.

    • jcuknz 22.2

      The trouble is that somebody made the quip about “that communist chic from down under” when she was a much younger person.
      I am reminded the other quip about “if you are not a socialist in your twenties you have no heart and if not a right-winger by your forties no brain”
      I doubt either I have no brain or am in my twenties … in a second childhood perhaps 🙂

  23. ropata 23

    It’s just a baseless ad hominem attack, the #dirtypolitics machine is looking desperate. One minute the RWNJs are moaning that the Coalition is just a pretty face with no substance, the next they are making shit up with even less substance.

    The last thing the Herald wants to print is anything about the real issues facing the country; water crisis in Hawkes Bay, China threatening our trade agreements, TPPA shenanigans, climate change, housing, overfishing, …

    • Ed 23.1

      How about some threads on these subjects.
      I posted some interesting stuff on the sale of our water yesterday.

    • It’s just a baseless ad hominem attack, the #dirtypolitics machine is looking desperate.

      Well, still working hard anyway.

      The last thing the Herald wants to print is anything about the real issues facing the country;

      Of course they don’t want to do that – that would highlight just how bad National is for the country and the world in general.

  24. OnceWasTim 24

    Have you ever watched a goldfish in a tank?
    It has Trump-like lip movements as it sucks up its fluffy bits of weed and other things it feeds on. NZ Herald hasn’t yet realised the bits of food it is so accustomed to are no longer able to survive under the environment they helped create. And Tanz and others are still deciding which stage of grief they’re in.
    50 years ago they’d have recommended that mischievous little Clare Trevett and others would benefit from a reform school, or perhaps forced adoption. I’m not sure they would have been wrong
    Oh Dear, How Sad

  25. Michael 25

    I read and downloaded the Lancet article after the exchange during question time yesterday. To my surprise, the writer believes Marxism is relevant to medicine in the 21st century and provides good reasons for his belief. While I’m quite sure no one in the current Labour caucus subscribes to Marxism (neither do I), it is worth looking at its analytical framework and seeing whether it provides a useful way of devising socially just solutions to problems.

  26. greywarshark 26

    Is this Horton mischievous? Is he a relation of the old Wilson and Horton of NZHerald fame I think? It’s a jump from editing a medical journal to casting economic opinions about other countries’ politicians. Does he want Marxist ideas to be debated in the UK? Why then does he bring NZ into it, why not get on with the job in his own country? Or has he antipathy to Marxist ideas, and their application to the health sector? There would be plenty of opportunity for discussion and examples in the USA of how Marxism would be disadvantageous to health there to some people.

    In a November editorial for The Lancet, editor Dr Richard Horton discusses the impact of Marxism on the health sector. He doesn’t actually call Ardern a Marxist, but suggests that she has opened the door for Marxist ideas to be debated.

    The Horton that I feel drawn to is the creation of a doctor – Dr Seuss. His Horton was careful, and considerate, and reliable, and had a slogan – Horton meant what he said and said what he meant, an elephant’s faithful 100 per cent.

    That describes the sort of person I would like as a politician. So Horton in the UK should hold onto his scalpel and carve something uplifting into his desk where he learns about the world and Marxism.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGneyLuJyl8

    This is all about Horton and the egg found on youtube – a sideline but interesting.
    Here is the First Lady in President Obamas time reading out Horton and the Egg!
    Lovely way of getting closer to the people from the exalted Presidential stance.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmhQcGOFZCU

    And a President that reads stories to children is uncommon. Here is ex-President Obama reading Green Eggs and Ham. Trump would not be drawn to this sort of reaching out to the peeps!
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imFTk5exiDY

    • cleangreen 26.1

      You may be on to something there thanks Greywarshark.

      A doctor becomming political????

      Must have an agenda eh?

      • greywarshark 26.1.1

        But whose agenda cleangreen? And why rope our newly elected PM into Marxist machinations in his mind? Now if it is Dr Beaglehole talking about the damage that sweet drinks do to teeth I agree with that sort of activism.

        • greywarshark 26.1.1.1

          And I must mention that the words ‘Marxist machinations’ is echoing the likely thoughts of the RW not my own. And how we have seen them picked up and conflated into emotional labelling as with Ian on TS!

          McCarthy-like the RW will use threats of communism to confuse the punters. McCarthy was almost an alcoholic and wanted to build a higher profile so he could get back into his political sinecure. He planned a dramatic gesture to gain notoriety, and waved an incorrect and outdated list in the air as evidence to his political cohort that he had information about communists. They were secretly planning to undermine the proud, good USA state. Which went into a state of paranoia which he milked for all he was worth.

          Horton needs to be careful if putting his toes into the hot politics of health, there be big money, as well as dragons.

  27. Ed 27

    It is interesting to see the characters holding the National Party banners behind the Morrinsville McCarthyite.
    They hardly look like lads from the Hauraki Plains.
    More like immigrants from Parnell and Remuera.

  28. greywarshark 28

    That guy in the image could be called Crafar. The busy business involving millions of dollars below was no doubt what that cow cocky? was anxious to protect. He probably things CC is short for cow cocky!

    Google comes up with these :
    The Big Read: Crafar farms saga over – NZ Herald
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz › Business
    Dec 22, 2015 – The Crafar farm saga has finally concluded, with receivers officially signing off from the troubled dairy empire leaving banks licking their wounds after being left $143.3 million short. The collapse of the Crafar farms in 2009 had triggered a national debate on farm leveraging and foreign land sales that …

    Shanghai Pengxin puts all its farms up for sale | Stuff.co.nz
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/…/shanghai-pengxin-puts-all-its-farms-up-for-sale
    Jul 21, 2015 – The 16 dairy farms totalling 7885 hectares are the former Crafar family farms, bought controversially for $200 million in 2012. They were listed for sale on Trade Me on Sunday on a “price by negotiation” basis and by Tuesday had been viewed 657 times. A spokeswoman for Shanghai Pengxin said the …

    • ropata 28.1

      Damn shame, the banks are down $143 mill of money they didn’t have in the first place.

      Could be the beginning of the end of speculation on rural land. No more farming for capital gains.

      Fingers crossed.

  29. Pat 29

    The only marks-ists I’ve heard of recently are those advocating ‘National standards’ – line them up against the wall, in accurate measured order?

  30. Priss 30

    ““More and more people, especially younger generations, believe that economies based only on free markets are not necessarily the best means to deliver fairer or healthier societies,” Horton writes.”

    And those young people would be right. It seems that wisdom has skipped a generation and is now esconced safely in our children.

  31. Peter 31

    Fake News – All Ardern has said is the markets are not perfect and sometimes fail society. Anyone who believes in markets, as the only was to run an economy, also knows this to be true.

  32. feijoa 32

    The right wing, I have to say are absolute masters of spin and messaging. They don’t just hold the narrative, they create it.
    They create the message and the sheeple repeat it back.

    And here is the latest Jacinda is a Marxist. It will keep on coming til it gets in peoples heads.

    The left really need to step up with their own counternarratives

    • Anne 32.1

      The left really need to step up with their own counternarratives.

      Couldn’t agree more. From the last term of Helen Clark through to the present, Labour has lost out due to NOT responding in kind. They may be in govt. now but only by way of NZ First.

  33. NewsFlash 33

    I was once acquainted with a Herald reporter, he was the sports writer, there had been a poor fishing period in the Waitamata Harbour during the winter, almost no fish being caught in the reports, one Saturday morning Herald had a picture of a fisherman holding up several snapper around the 5kg mark with the caption just caught off Rangitoto yesterday. I spoke to this person, saying what a great catch and he responded, yeah, it is, only thing is the picture was from last year, so manipulation of the reality is easy, and from that day on I never believed a single thing I ever read in the Herald, and that was in 1994

    • greywarshark 33.1

      Well you are an extremist NewsFlash. First you believed everything, then you believed nothing – how can NZ advance if people don’t learn about human nature, deviousness and how to read between the lines. Dealing with us would be like taking candy from a baby if we all thought as you do. Some people tell a lot of lies, some middling, and some rarely. Spot the difference?

  34. Ian 34

    I have waded through all the dribble and no one has convinced me that Jacinda is not a marxist .Could some one explain to me Why she became the world leader of socialist youth if she is not a marxist ?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 34.1

      She’s a Marxist. Soon she will collectivise your farm and everything else your low-life family owns. You will deserve it, and I will laugh at you, just like I’m doing now, you bitter paranoid old fool.

      • ropata 34.1.1

        I for one welcome our communist revolutionaries, and as a centre-left politics nerd I can be useful in rounding up bourgoisie capitalists and neoliberal flunkies for the gulags of the Soviet Republic of Aotearoa.
        /sarc

        Maybe you (Ian) need to go back to school and figure out that NZ is a mixed social democracy not a communist dictatorship. Any decent critique of capitalism or the neoliberal crap we swim in daily, will use Marx’s ideas, because the dude was a goddamn genius.

        PS: Fonterra is a worker owned co-operative. Farmers are commies too!

        • Ian 34.1.1.1

          Don’t get too cocky mate.Just remember Jacinda has to run everything past Winston for his approval.The drunken dwarf seal of approval on everything. Good times are coming folks.

      • Ian 34.1.2

        I know who you are and bitter paranoid old fool is a phrase you must be familiar with,every time you look in the mirror.Answer the question if you can. Your princess is a fake ,a flake and a marxist.

        • ropata 34.1.2.1

          You want someone to prove a negative for you?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 34.1.2.2

          You answered it yourself; cf: Socialism ≠ Marxism. Were the Prime Minister a Marxist she would not be the leader of the NZLP. She looks like a liberal democrat to me.

          It’s nice of you to offer me rent-free space in your head, but frankly it’s unsanitary: I wouldn’t keep my dog there.

          • Ian 34.1.2.2.1

            She looks like a frightened little girl that is totally out of her depth to me. Whoever talked her into this maskarade will have blood on their hands. Take another look in the mirror and ask yourself. Was it worth it ?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 34.1.2.2.1.1

              Like I said: unsanitary.

              Was it worth it ?

              I have no idea. Can you be more specific?

              • Ian

                Got to go. Welcome rain but still need to shift the irrigators to keep the business in profit ,and keep up all the tax payments that keep this great country moving forward. Grant Robinson needs to take heed. Drought will blow his aspirations into shit and small stones.

  35. feijoa 35

    Yes Ian . Try reading the whole thread

    • One Anonymous Bloke 35.1

      He’ll have to learn to switch off his amygdala first.

    • Muttonbird 35.2

      Ian is too busy poisoning New Zealand waterways in the name of personal profit.

      • Ian 35.2.1

        Can you prove that ? Just explain to me why Jacinda is not a marxist.

        • ropata 35.2.1.1

          First prove you aren’t a fascist.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 35.2.1.2

          Can you explain to me why you stopped beating your favourite sheep?

          Edit: no, that’s too subtle for you. Try this: loaded questions, such as yours, are often associated with Stalinism. When did you become a Stalinist?

          Pretty sure that’ll go over your head too. So be it.

          • Ian 35.2.1.2.1

            Just answer my original question. Your too clever for your own good ,which probably explains why you float around this cesspit like a high fiber turd. Get out and enjoy yourself. You will feel a lot better for it. I just had a few weeks travelling in the USA and the experience was life changing.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 35.2.1.2.1.1

              Your question is:

              “Why is Jacinda Ardern not a Marxist?”

              Answer: how the fuck should I know? Social Democracy makes more sense to her? She made the bad choice to choose Liberalism instead?

              As a Stalinist you probably have more insight into such things than I.

              • Ian

                She certainly made a bad choice in letting Winstons puppet hand take control. All your fancy words mean jack shit to me mate. Comrade Jacinda is a fixture now in Kiwi lexicon.I gotta go and shift that irrigator and make some more money for the country.

                • Can’t help noting Ian has nothing in answer to the question of whether he can prove he’s not a fascist. Guess that one’s answered, then.

                  • Ian

                    Good try mate. I am just a hard working,family man . Call me what you like, but I know in my bones that Jacinda is a dead women walking. She was catapulted into her current role 20 years too early ,which is a shame because she has a nice smile and maybe could have got a few points on the political success scoreboard ,given time .Winston Peters saw her naievity as a crooked pathway to gaining the power he has craved for 30 years. It is going to end up in tears,but lizards like Winston don’t cry.

                    • With your attitude no wonder you’re a shit farmer – always moaning – I though the industry got rid of your type ages ago.

                      Quick go and move your irrigator again lol.

                    • In Vino

                      Ian, since you are calling Ardern a Marxist, could you please explain what Marxist means? Do you have any idea? I have read Das Kapital, and some other writings by Marx, but I cannot see how she is in any way Marxist. She is very middle-of-the-road, unfortunately.
                      I wish she were Marxist – but you don’t even know what that means, do you? (I am calling you bloody ignorant, in case you had not noticed.)

        • Carolyn_nth 35.2.1.3

          Can you read and digest more than a paragraph at a time?

          Try Reading the Maps, who explains……

          http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/is-jacinda-commie.html

          Edit: Does Ardern want to nationalise everything? Cos that’s what a communist would do.

          Ardern is a centrist leftie, that aims for caring capitalism. I wish she was more of a socialist!

          Time to reclaim socialism. It’s had a bad press in the neocon era.

          • ropata 35.2.1.3.1

            +1 brilliant link. Probably too many big words for Ian though. Seems he has just been to the land of Trump for some good old Fox News brainwashing

            • Ian 35.2.1.3.1.1

              3.5 % GDP growth,Unemployment at 17 year record lows,Petrol $2 .00 a gallon,isis wiped out in 12 months ,the place is booming. Illegal immigration has fallen by 70 % without building a wall. Enforcing existing border controlls is very effective. I think Trump is doing a very good job and am taking bets that in 3 years he will get another term.

              • dv

                Gallon?
                Of course unemployment is low, the criteria of employment was changed by the Natz to ‘warm and walking!’

                • Ian

                  You really need to read more. The National party of NZ has very little influence over The unemployment rates in the USA. And you probably get to vote ,no wonder we have the coalition of the bewildered and the bemused.

              • ropata

                Mass shootings, white supremacists in government, protest marches everywhere, White House in chaos, deranged tweets every day, threatening wars in North Korea and Iran, grabbing women “by the pussy”, grotesque inequality, widespread poverty in the world’s richest nation, Wall Street crooks unpunished and infesting Washington DC, corrupt dealings with Russia

                The USA has been hollowed out by the 1%, but I’m sure the tourist spots were nice. Lucky you.

        • David Mac 35.2.1.4

          Marx said: “The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.”

          Sleep easy, Jacinda won’t be coming for your dirt bike, farm and Play Station any time soon.

          • Ian 35.2.1.4.1

            I don’t own a dirt bike or a play station . The problem I have with her and parker is that they used us dairy farmers as voter bait. They projected the lie that irrigation is evil.
            If it doesn’t rain for the next 6 months perhaps the green party and the labour party will start to understand the benefits of irrigation. But I am holding my breath , cos they are stupid.

            • David Mac 35.2.1.4.1.1

              So you’re not concerned about Jacinda going all Trotsky on us, more her Govt making life tough for farmers.

              I’m sure you’re a best practices farmer Ian and have little to be concerned about. There are plenty of ratbags to collar before Jacinda’s Farm Squad need to start hopping over your gate.

              You might get charged a token amount for your irrigation water. You’ll be ok sport, the Hilton Presidential Suites are not all they’re cracked up to be hey.

            • McFlock 35.2.1.4.1.2

              Meanwhile three people were hospitalised quite possibly because they forgot to check Environment Southland’s river shitometer.

              • Ian

                Good try mate. I am just a hard working,family man . Call me what you like, but I know in my bones that Jacinda is a dead women walking. She was catapulted into her current role 20 years too early ,which is a shame because she has a nice smile and maybe could have got a few points on the political success scoreboard ,given time .Winston Peters saw her naievity as a crooked pathway to gaining the power he has craved for 30 years. It is going to end up in tears,but lizards like Winston don’t cry.

                • McFlock

                  lol

                  How oh how did the best government in NZ political history lose to a young, dead, naive marxist being eaten by a lizard?

              • Ian

                Check your shitometer. Nothing to do with dairy farmers. Fake news.
                Why are you a WANKER ?

                • McFlock

                  Oh, the article was very clear that there was no proven link between swimming in that river and puking their guts out.

                  Just that it might have been.

            • JC 35.2.1.4.1.3

              WTF. You been on the piss Ian….?

  36. newsense 36

    A start of the shit river of dirty politics. The government needs to fight back. Some kind of strategy. Not just smile and hope.

  37. Tanz 37

    I agree Ian, she is totally out of her depth in the PM role. She does come across as a frightened little girl, and she did in the TV debates, also. Also agree that she is too young to be PM. Ardern has no real world experience and is all about virtual signalling and slogans. It’s as though she does not think for herself at all. So far, she has antagonised Australia, and is still doing so. Who does she think she is? Height of arrogance, but petulant too. Of course she is a Marixist, leader of Socialist Youth, was filmed uttering the world ‘comrade’ over and over. Labour are also Marxist in their views, and even National, to a certain extent are as well. For me they are the lesser of the two Marxist evils, simply as there is no one else on the right. But to say that Ardern is not a Marxist is nuts. The left is about Marxist ideals through and through.
    Karl Marx; man not God, yet worshipped still. What a world! Failed hard left Marxist ideals, now being shoved down our throats, no mandate, at the whim of Winston!!
    Australia is looking good right now.
    Watching the Labour Ministers in the House is very amusing, as they keep saying over and over
    ‘people voted for change’. But numbers don’t lie and the huge National Opposition is demolishing the new govt
    with energy and passion. Silver lining is how well they are doing, looking like a govt in waiting should. It won’t be long…

    • ropata 37.1

      Capitalism is offensive to God. Take a break from Kiwiblog and Fox news and Breitbart and actually study your Bible.

      Here’s a giant wall of text from the Bible in support of the idea that the character of Jesus as portrayed in the New Testament was a left-wing socialist liberal, bordering on communist:
      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2011/08/the-wall-o-socialist-bible-quotes/

      Here’s extreme RWNJ superhero Ayn Rand

      “No social system can stand for long without a moral base. Project a magnificent skyscraper being built on quicksands: while men are struggling upward to add the hundredth and two-hundredth stories, the tenth and twentieth are vanishing, sucked under by the muck. That is the history of capitalism, of its swaying, tottering attempt to stand erect on the foundation of the altruist morality. It’s either-or. If capitalism’s befuddled, guilt-ridden apologists do not know it, two fully consistent representatives of altruism do know it: Catholicism and communism.”

      via https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/6/21/1394420/-Pope-Francis-sounds-like-a-Marxist-and-so-did-Jesus

      Have you even read the bits where Jesus talks about “love thy neighbour” and “it’s harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom on heaven than a camel to enter the eye of a needle” and “woe to those who do not help the poor, the sick, and the prisoner” etc etc etc

  38. Tanz 38

    Marxism is anti-God and Karl Marx was of course, an athiest.
    ‘God helps those who help themselves’, and Capitalism is the best system, not that it’s ever really been tried here in NZ. We are a leftie Nation, no matter who is in charge.
    Marxism is the narrative, even if it’s not mentioned.
    Socialism is just Marxism wrapped in another name.
    Labour and National are both PC and left, but National are better economical managers and slightly more to the right. We should have had a grand coaltion, that is what voters actually voted for. Winston would have had nil power, and the majority votes would have been honoured. But it seems Nat and Lab would rather be at loggerheads forever.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 38.1

      Hi there moran. Looks like you’re trying to bargain your way out of being a loser now. I think denial and anger suit you better.

      Which god creature are you referring to? Thor? Lord Krisna? Shiva the destroyer? Pangu? Ārohirohi? Astarte? The Toad of Nazareth?

    • dv 38.2

      “National are better economical managers

      Yah reckon

      That will be up there with 44% is a majority

      • Tanz 38.2.1

        A much better result though than Labour’s final 36 percent at the polls, which as of right now, is pretty much the same. More people still prefer National over Labour. Thanks Santa!

    • ropata 38.3

      a) “God helps those who help themselves” is not Scriptural.
      b) “Capitalism has not been tried in NZ” yes it was during the NZ Wars when the settlers stole all the Maori land that was the purest form of capitalism.
      c) We have a majority coalition,
      d) There can be no peace with the National Party nest of vipers.

      • Tanz 38.3.1

        You have a minority government. Many NZ First supporters wanted them to go with Naitonal (as Winston implied pre-election), therefore you can’t count NZ First as left. He/they captured votes from both sides.

        • ropata 38.3.1.1

          Correction, *some* NZF supporters wanted to coalesce with the Nats but according to Winston’s own internal polling (and his many critical comments of the last 9 years) *most* of the NZF membership wanted a change of government. Winston called it correctly, most NZers voted for change.

          And yes you *can* call NZF left, they are socially conservative but economically interventionist. And strongly critical of Nat cronyism and failing to act on homelessness, housing, and poverty.

          I know you kiwiblog loonies are pretty septic at Winston, but this is a democracy and the arrogant born to rule silver spoon tories need to learn how to play with others.

    • ‘God helps those who help themselves’, and Capitalism is the best system, not that it’s ever really been tried here in NZ.

      That sounds remarkably like the excuse a psychopath would use while stealing and killing people.

      Capitalism always destroys the society it arises in. This is all of recorded history. So, obviously not the best system.

      but National are better economical managers and slightly more to the right.

      History shows that National are the worst economic managers and are radical right-wing nut jobs.

      We should have had a grand coaltion, that is what voters actually voted for.

      No, that is not what they voted for. They voted for change but I’m sure that they’re not getting what they actually want or need.

      Winston would have had nil power, and the majority votes would have been honoured.

      The majority of voters have been honoured which is why National are no longer in power. Note that their support parties, except ACT, no longer exist.

  39. lurgee 39

    Were you “slightly merry” when you wrote this, Mickey?

    The Herald isn’t does not suggest or think Ardern a Marxist – the article highlights an article in The Lancet that identifies her as such. The whole thing has a lighthearted, gee-look-at-them-talking-’bout-little-old-us tone. There are a few other cases to highlight how silly this idea is getting, but the Herald – contrary to your claim – isn’t making any judgement about Ardern’s knowledge of Das Kapital.

    Also, when you chide them about D’Abrera’s comments (“I think the Herald should read it again. I don’t think it says what the Herald writer thinks it says. D’Abrera was saying that Ardern clearly is not a Marxist”) … I am afraid to break it to you that the Herald is already perfectly aware of that. That’s why they wrote:

    In a response in the Spectator Australia, Carlos D’Abrera addresses Horton’s use of Ardern as a champion for Marxism.

    “That the millennial Ms Ardern should be considered a ‘go-to’ authority on such matters should trouble Kiwis and Marxists alike.”

    I know you feel you need to do everything you can to maintain Trumpian level of persecution and paranoia about the MSM and Fake News and bias and the like, but, really, that was a pretty poor effort.

    • Incognito 39.1

      – the article highlights an article in The Lancet that identifies her as such.

      No it doesn’t; it said “Marxist ideas have re-entered the political debate”. I thought the article in The Lancet by Dr Horton was actually very good; he’s an interesting character.

      • lurgee 39.1.1

        Fair enough but I am affronted – blackly affronted – that you pick me up on that slip while ignoring MS’s arse-over-tit tumble.

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