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Then they came for Child Youth and Family

Written By: - Date published: 8:05 am, April 2nd, 2015 - 162 comments
Categories: national, poverty, privatisation, same old national, welfare - Tags:

The Government has announced plans to review Child Youth and Family.  Anne Tolley has said that the Department is eight to ten years behind in its thinking in areas such as how children in state care are supported.  Since National has now been in power for approaching seven of those years the comment is a damning acknowledgment that this Government does not have a clue about issues concerning children and young people.

The review is an attempt to stigmatise very dedicated social workers and blame them for things beyond their control.  It is no coincidence that aspects of child care may be worsening at the very time that child poverty rates are increasing.  But if you want to do something you address the cause, not the response.

Tolley has announced a review panel headed by Paula Rebstock.  Appointing an economist to head a review of an organisation such as Child Youth and Family shows you where the priorities will be.  The other panel members include the Commissioner of Police, the head of a UK charity for kids, the former Chief of Staff for the Maori Party and a Professor of Psychology.  There is no one from Child Youth and Family and no one who works with troubled young people in New Zealand.

The terms of reference suggest that outsourcing of services is on the cards.  There will clearly be a focus on the Department’s spend with the desire to cut costs wherever possible.  The paper is full of that really annoying management speak that dominates review documents like this.

The proposal matches the Government’s usual shock and awe approach to reorganisations.  Appoint a panel to come back with preordained views from carefully drafted terms of reference.  Create the impression of action by throwing up a number of ideas at once.  Blame hard working public servants for things beyond their control.  Then privatise.

162 comments on “Then they came for Child Youth and Family ”

  1. Gary 1

    I’m having a feeling of de ja vu, didn’t Redbstock chair the last CYF review?

  2. felix 2

    It’s weird. I don’t remember Paula Rebstock ever being elected, yet the govt put her in charge of all their decisions.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      We live in a dictatorship where we get to elect the dictators every three years.

    • Anne 2.2

      Paula Rebstock:

      She looks a dreadful woman.
      She sounds a dreadful woman.
      She is a dreadful woman.

      She is there to do the government’s ideological bidding which in essence is: destroy the Welfare State and lay foundations for a trimmed down market-place oriented outfit designed to punish the clients – abused children in this case. Shove em in to a kid’s concentration camp and staff it with ideological fundies to sort them out. Is Madam Rebstock out of a job? She would be ideal to run the joint on a big fat corporate salary?

      • miravox 2.2.1

        “destroy the Welfare State and lay foundations for a trimmed down market-place oriented outfit designed to punish the clients – abused children in this case. “

        Designed to funnel profits to the private sector. Failure to provide services they’re contracted to provide is simply collateral damage and a way to syphon off more money from the taxpayer to fix it, I reckon.

        I don’t think they think about the people who might be damaged at all.

        • Anne 2.2.1.1

          The moment has come where The Greens and Labour should show they can work together as a team. And if the Peters Party throw in their lot behind them too – and I don’t see why they wouldn’t – then it could be the real start of the end of this god-awful government!

      • Unicus 2.2.2

        “She looks a dreadful woman
        She sounds a dreadful woman
        She is a dreadful woman ”

        We are Talking about Rebstock and Tolley arent we ?

    • ghostwhowalksnz 2.3

      Notice its another one of the major revamps, like state housing, that werent mentioned in the election.

      And in ‘mention’ I mean up on the list of things we will do in our first 6 months .

      Sell off state houses

      Send troops to fight ISIS

      Privatize CYF

      NO Mention in their detailed campaign policies.

      • halfcrown 2.3.1

        “NO Mention in their detailed campaign policies.”

        What campaign policies? I don’t recall any of them being mentioned.

  3. Disabled Liberation Aotearoa NZ DLANZ 3

    Right On Mickey to express your concerns. Metiria Turei was on Radio Waatea this morning, as was this item ared on TV3 Firstline. They like you, see the terms of reference more focused on economic issues rather than for the betterment of those most affected.

    Typical of a ‘Conservative’ / Political attitude which is prepared to trade Equality for Efficiency. The make up of members do not include Children’s advocates; Parent Groups or Workers in the field. Instead we see the same old faces of Scientific Disciplines who as you sat,, try to avoid Causes and continue to waste time and money and people resources ‘band-aiding’ Disabled are well aware of this being invoked on the Disability Sector, so DLANZ stand in Solidarity against Systemic Hypocrisy.

    It is really important to monitor how this progresses and Media needs to be at the forefront . Waiata Song ”Where Do The Children Play?” Cat Stevens aka Yousif Islam

    Regards and keep smiling

    Doug Hay
    Cordinator

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      Typical of a ‘Conservative’ / Political attitude which is prepared to trade Equality for Efficiency.

      Equality is more efficient. What they’re actually doing is giving our wealth to the rich under the guise of higher efficiency.

    • tracey 3.2

      Thanks Doug. Any noise from the Maori Party on this?

      • Disabled Liberation Aotearoa NZ DLANZ 3.2.1

        Not much Tracey….Dale Husband was talking to NZ First Pita Parone on another issue and it was mentioned that little had been heard, As this government has an obligation under Te Tiriti o Waitangi..The Treaty of 1840…then Maori Women’s Welfare League should be there as of right.

        DLANZ note there appears also to be no representatives from the Disability Sector.This is not in line with Disabled / Hauaa NZ Disability Strategy / Whakanui Oranga 2001 starting with Objective 15…Value Whanau / Families and People providing ongoing support”…

        And I totally agree with Draco’s comment that..’Equality is more efficient”

        Kia kaha and keep smiling
        Doug

        • tracey 3.2.1.1

          I wish they would speak more. I would like to know if this has been announced following any consultation with them.

          I am concerned that someone from the British experience is being seen as more expert/qualified than someone from our sector.

          Can anyone recall if someone from CYFs has ever been on a Police Review?

  4. One Anonymous Bloke 4

    I don’t know why they bother. We all know their answer is SERCO. Why the fuck don’t they just get on with it.

    The best response to privatisation is nationalisation without compensation, and asset seizure, and a warning that the next time they bribe the National Party they’re all going to jail.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      The best response to privatisation is nationalisation without compensation, and asset seizure, and a warning that the next time they bribe the National Party they’re all going to jail.

      QFT

      Except that it can’t just apply to National. After all, it was Labour that started the privatisation of our assets causing increased poverty.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1

        The point is there has to be a major disincentive (since increased infant mortality doesn’t seem to deter them).

        • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1

          Definitely.

          IMO, if policies put in place by a government cause higher death rates and they were informed that they would then everyone in that government gets to go to jail for murder. We can be pretty certain that this review will cause policies that will increase suicides and other deaths.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.1.1

            Which raises a legal issue: claim of right.

          • Gosman 4.1.1.1.2

            The problem is it would be a value judgement over whether the policies of a particular government led directly to the deaths or not. Just as you probably don’t balme the Chavist regime for the increased deaths as a result of the brreakdown of their heatlth system I am sure people would also argue that National policies haven’t led to increased deaths either.

            • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.1.2.1

              It’s not a question of argument but of evidence shown both before and after.

              • Gosman

                Not really. There is plenty of evidence for the results of bad left leaning polcies around the world. You would probably argue (and I believe I have seen you do so) that the negative outcome is not the result of the policies themselves but of the actions of selfish individuals who can’t abide following the policies. That is where we get in to semantics rather than evidence. The same would apply to any analysis of the impacts of right leaning policies. Any so called expert you put up I am sure I could find someone to counter it.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  You would probably argue (and I believe I have seen you do so) that the negative outcome is not the result of the policies themselves but of the actions of selfish individuals who can’t abide following the policies.

                  Actually, I argue on the evidence and the evidence usually shows that some Left-wing policy has been implemented in a very Right-wing way that then failed. A good example is the Obama Care package. On the surface it’s a Left-wing policy but its implementation is pure Right-wing and so it will ultimately fail. There’s also the fact that the Right-wing will always attack Left-wing policy to ensure that it fails often by changing the policy once they’re in power. The National Party’s changes to the ETS and attempts on the RMA are proof enough of that.

                  Any so called expert you put up I am sure I could find someone to counter it.

                  You’re talking opinion, not evidence and the chances are that one of them wouldn’t be an expert either. The same as Lord Monckton isn’t a climate expert but still argues climate change despite all the actual experts and evidence showing that he’s wrong.

                  • Gosman

                    How do explain the shortages in Venezuela then? I believe you may well have attempted to blame them on the US (although I could be wrong on this point) and not the policy of price controls implemented by the Chavista government.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Venezuela food shortages: ‘No one can explain why a rich country has no food’

                      From an over-reliance on imports to price controls and, quite simply, a lack of funds, food shortages in Venezuela have not only peaked but they have lasted longer than ever.

                      RWNJ policies strike again.

                      Venezuela should not have a shortage of anything as they are more than capable of producing everything they need from their own resources. If the Venezuelan state created enough money (doesn’t have to be a lot) to pay people to utilise their own resources and paid out a UBI then there would be neither shortages nor poverty.

                    • Gosman

                      As I suspected you just can’t blame any problems on wrong headed left wing inspired policies. It is always Right leaning policies that are to blame in your world. Thankfully it is unlikely we will ever live in a world where you get to decide if a set of policies have caused harm or not and then dish out the punishment after.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      As I suspected you just can’t blame any problems on wrong headed left wing inspired policies.

                      I use evidence to see where things have gone wrong and there’s no doubt that things have gone wrong. It looks to me as if they’ve put in place policies piecemeal – effectively, they’ve put in place only half or less of the required policy.

                      Re-appropriating land shouldn’t have that land go fallow.
                      Price controls shouldn’t have the stores go empty.

                      It is always Right leaning policies that are to blame in your world.

                      It’s not my world but reality. RWNJ policies increase poverty while making a few rich people richer. That’s all they’ve ever done or ever will do.

                    • Gosman

                      Price controls generally do lead to stores going empty or at least shortages. It is the basic principle behind the law of supply and demand. The fact you stick your head in the ground and pretend otherwise is your issue but it should mean you are precluded from using your powers of deduction to attribute blame for the negative outcome of any set of policies.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      It is the basic principle behind the law of supply and demand.

                      Contrary to what idiots believe that’s not actually a law. Steve Keen on the subject.

                      Here’s a question: If supply was adequate at a price and that price was then locked in why would supply then become inadequate?

                      Can’t be inflation because there isn’t any thus the only reason must be because the capitalists are upset about not being able to drive up profit at will.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      We aren’t talking about Venezuela.

                      We’re talking about increased infant mortality in New Zealand.

                      The World Bank, the OECD, the NZ Law Society, not to mention assorted charities and medical professionals all present evidence that falls on deaf ears.

                      The National Party attacks children, both figuratively and literally.

            • tracey 4.1.1.1.2.2

              What do you think of the composition of the group referred to in the post?

              • Gosman

                Aside from the panel head and obviously Mike Bush (because he is a Copper) why would you have any objection to any of the other members of that panel?

    • Gosman 4.2

      Which is where countries like Venezuela and Cuba end up as a result. Broken economies where people are desperate to leave.

      • adam 4.2.1

        How about your free-market love state Mexico Gossy?

        Answer the failures of NAFT, and the rise of the death rates in Mexico Gossy?

        Mexico a shinning light in free-market thinking.

        Shit Gossy you use to think some, before you put your foot in your mouth, what happened?

        • Gosman 4.2.1.1

          Of the two countries Venezuela and Mecxico I know which one I would prefer to live in. It isn’t the one with shortages of toilet paper.

          • adam 4.2.1.1.1

            So you again ask questions, but are not willing to answer any?

            You unwilling to be wrong? Are you so desperate to be right? Mexico is a disaster area, ask those fools from that white-wear company.

            All I see is a Mexico over run with gangs, indeed Venezuela has a gang problem as well. But lets face facts Mexico, is worse – how many Mexico’s are willing to end up in a ditch every night to get away? Funny how money, or the love of money funds an never-ending line of young men and women into the grind of so called easy money.

            So back on topic – CYPS is going to exposed to free-market ideology. And you want to argue about central America – Sheesh Gossy you know the free-market is a lie – especially when monopoles like the corporations are at the wheel.

            • Gosman 4.2.1.1.1.1

              There was no question in my statement above and I answered your question. Mexico is in infinately better state than Venezuela who also has massive crime as well as a failing economy.

              • adam

                And Mexico has an economy?

                Funny you not wanting to face up to the fact many many economies have been destroyed by blind devotion to ideology on the right. I happy to admit ideological idiots on the left are deeply destructive. But, economies like Mexico are a disaster in slow motion for the people living in them – and that is the result of ideological rigidity, by people like you Gossey.

                The right have that disease in spades at present. Ideology trumping, practicality, intelligent thinking, and economically sound decision making. And If we get back to the original post. What we have is a committee set-up with people who have a track record of ideological purity and rigidity.

              • KJT

                “Mexico is an infinitely better state than Venezuela”.

                Which one are people trying desperately to get out of. At the risk of dying in the desert or being shot at the Texas border.

                LOL. Have you even talked to anyone that lives in either.
                Or who has been to that capitalist paradise, Colon, recently!

                Not to mention that other blazing success of US colonialism, Haiti.

              • KJT

                Juarez, Mexico,. The worlds most dangerous city. Colon, Columbia bullets flying around everywhere. Chicago!

                Venezuela is almost crime free, by comparison

  5. Draco T Bastard 5

    Tolley has announced a review panel headed by Paula Rebstock.

    Which means that it’s going to be neo-liberal ideology that will punish people rather than address the cause which is neo-liberalism itself.

    The terms of reference suggest that outsourcing of services is on the cards.

    More privatisation.

  6. Gosman 6

    The typical leftist solution to any problem it seems is to throw more taxpayer money at it rather than look at how things can be done better with the existing funding arrangements.

    • vto 6.1

      So the typical rightist solution to any problem it seems is take more taxpayer money away from it rather than look at how things can be done better.

      • Gosman 6.1.1

        You are making an assumption that the review will lead to less money. Don’t you think spending money more wisely is a good thing?

        • Hateatea 6.1.1.1

          Are you suggesting that spending money on another review when the last one is barely two years old is responsible financial management? Does Paula Rebstock deserve more money as a per diem than social workers receive in a month or that caregivers receive in four months?

          Surely you jest?

        • miravox 6.1.1.2

          How is spending money on profit-making better than spending it on skills, wages and time?

        • tracey 6.1.1.3

          How much will the review cost Gosman?

    • So the typical rightist solution to any problem it seems is throw more taxpayer money at Paula Rebstock rather than look at how things could be done better by talking to actual experts in the area.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1

        +1111

      • Gosman 6.2.2

        Does this mean you are not against the review just who is conducting it?

        • Jones 6.2.2.1

          The devil is in the detail… in this case the Terms of Reference. I haven’t read the Terms of Reference for this review but the composition of the panel chaired by Paula Rebstock suggests a Terms of Reference loaded to elicit a pre-determined outcome. Happy to be proved wrong.

        • I’m against your gross oversimplification of the concerns raised in the post.

        • KJT 6.2.2.3

          As Rebstock so far, has fucked up everything she has touched. I would have thought you would be worried about the obvious waste of tax payers money with her continued employment.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.3

      And I bet you didn’t even consider that the present funding arrangements just don’t provide enough and are actually the main cause of the problems.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 6.4

      So its OK to throw more money at one lane bridges ?

      Or Charter schools?

      Or even the subsidies for Wanganui Collegiate if they werent succeeding in their own terms why is it the states job to rescue them ( especailly in area with excess capacity at existing schools)

      Coming soon the ‘rescue of Fonterra’ . Wont be this year, but within 3 years will happen.

      Remember as we saw with the former Telecom offshoot Chorus, needed to be rescued from its low bid for UFB

      • Gosman 6.4.1

        No. I thought the election bribes were appalling. It just goes to show how left wing the National party has become under John Key.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1.1

          The corruption shown by the National Party in the recent buy-election is typical of right-wing parties.

        • tracey 6.4.1.2

          and your solution? To vote for the party that props them up?

          • Gosman 6.4.1.2.1

            I can’t control what National does and considering the governing alternative to National is just another flavour of pork barrel I choose the lesser of the two evils approach. Act has stated it’s position quite clearly against the policies promoted by National during the byelection but won’t bring the government down over the issue.

            • tracey 6.4.1.2.1.1

              so you don’t like national but like the others less, except ACT, who you like but don’t have the balls to stand up for their policies. So you will continue to support and ensure NZ gets more of what you state you don’t like.

              Thanks for clarifying…

              • Gosman

                I just told you Act has been stating their opposition to these policies. They aren’t going to bring down the government on a point of principle though. I believe doing that is called politics.

                • tracey

                  There was no question mark in my statement Gosman, I was summarising your stated position. Funny how you answer questions never asked while ignoring or re framing ones asked. Pretty wrong headed thinking.

                  compromising your principles … there’s lots of words for it.

                • left for deadshark

                  aren’t going to bring down the government on a point of principle though. I believe doing that is called politics.

                  Thats called,not biting the hand that feeds them.Do not forget Gosman.act would not be their other wise,Patsies.

                • RedBaronCV

                  And more people in Northland want to legalise weed than voted for ACT.
                  The thoughts of ACT are utterly irrelevant.

        • adam 6.4.1.3

          “It just goes to show how left wing the National party has become under John Key.”

          Fatuous statement of the day.

      • gsays 6.4.2

        hi ghost, howabout $1.6 B (or was it $1.8?) to south canterbury finance?

    • Skinny 6.5

      Weasel words, tell it straight. Job cuts then bring in the consultants and contractors. Same oil snake oil recipe just a different label.

      Shift in wealth by stealth.

    • tracey 6.6

      Have you read the post about CYF’s and the other one with a report about increased benefits in Norway.

      And as for your throw money at it doesn’t help mantra.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/free-money-might-be-the-best-way-to-end-poverty/2013/12/29/679c8344-5ec8-11e3-95c2-13623eb2b0e1_story.html

    • dv 6.7

      So Gossy the panel are working for free

  7. Hateatea 7

    As someone who has had daily contact with the people who work for CYF over almost thirty years and has been a CYF foster parent for about twelve of those years, I refute any suggestion that it is not child focussed and is ten years behind the times.

    We expect a great deal from all of those who work in the caring professions: doctors, nurses, home helps, caregivers for the elderly, frail, mentally unwell, teachers and social workers and for the most part they live up to our expectations. No organisation gets everything right all the time but in the case of CYF, because they are working with those very vulnerable children whose families are struggling with parenting them, we as a society expect them to get it right all the time.

    I interact with some outstanding people as I provide support for children in the care of CYF. I find their passion for their role to be inspiring and humbling. They have ongoing training and supervision to ensure that they can provide best service to the children and their families for whom they have responsibility.

    Are they sufficiently resourced and staffed to meet ‘society’s’ expectations? I don’t think so myself. Decisions from Family Group Conferences often seem to run foul of the limitations that budgets impose on the agency and contracting out will not help that. It will just fragment service.

    We have already seen the closure of several family homes because it is difficult to find people to put their lives on hold while they work with some very damaged and troubled young people. Societal pressures mean that fewer families can juggle the extra work load that comes with offering a home to a foster child. There are almost always more meetings with schools, medical professionals, social workers etc than you can imagine and, for some, the disruption is not sustainable over a long period of time.

    Anne Tolley and Paula Rebstock need to come down and spend some time at the flaxroots before they try to implement far reaching changes.

    My greatest fear is that they may drive very good people out of this very challenging and important role that they undertake on behalf of us all and leave the children totally behind. The children are the central focus of CYF, they are our future and not fodder for Anne Tolley and her political career.

    He mokopuna, he taonga – children are treasures

    • ianmac 7.1

      Hateatea. A great contribution thanks. And what makes it even greater is your plain talking completely free of cloudy jargon and bureaucratic nonsense.
      The Rebstock will read like that? Doubt it!

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      Decisions from Family Group Conferences often seem to run foul of the limitations that budgets impose on the agency and contracting out will not help that. It will just fragment service.

      Privatisation isn’t about producing a better service but about increasing profits.

      Anne Tolley and Paula Rebstock need to come down and spend some time at the flaxroots before they try to implement far reaching changes.

      You’re asking them to put aside their ideology and cater to reality. I can assure you, that’s not going to happen. Just look to Gosman’s typical RWNJ reply that we all need to do more with less (Except the rich who will get more tax cuts).

      My greatest fear is that they may drive very good people out of this very challenging and important role that they undertake on behalf of us all and leave the children totally behind.

      And when they do they’ll just blame someone else. These National Party people refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

      • Anne 7.2.1

        Great comment DTB.

      • tracey 7.2.2

        “Privatisation isn’t about producing a better service but about increasing profits.”

        yes sir! Beholden only to shareholders rights to dividends.

    • NZJester 7.3

      They may be treasures, but this government loves to sell our treasures to the private sector!

    • mickysavage 7.4

      Thanks Hateatea.

      I have had very regular contact with CYF over about the same time and I cannot speak highly enough about their dedication and profession.

      The basic problem is resources. If you have a young person with a drug or alcohol problem for instance there are very few facilities available and it takes far too long to get them placed. Hi level review of managerial structures will not solve this.

      • Hateatea 7.4.1

        Speedy access to age appropriate care and treatment for young, at risk, already troubled children is indeed difficult to find. A lot of days I feel anger well up as I hear that a child doesn’t have severe enough problems to qualify for service a, b, c, d or e.

        We need to have good, sturdy fencing at the top of the cliff instead of well equipped ambulances at the bottom. A child shouldn’t need to be in crisis to get the professional help. This is not a criticism of CYF but rather that of the other agencies who are all protecting their budgets and resources and trying to ensure that the most worthy are those who receive help. In the meantime the social workers, parents and carers do their best.

        I also believe that more should be done to work with parents and whanau so that fewer children are uplifted, not more. Families in crisis because of unemployment, ill health, poor housing, addiction etc are huge consumers of societies resources. Could we do better by them? Yes, we can if we make the choice to do so. Will reviewing and remodelling CYF solve the problem? Highly unlikely because most often CYF is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and poverty and stress are making glaring gaps at the fence above.

    • tracey 7.5

      Thanks for a viewpoint oft overlooked in media and by politicians seeking to reinforce people’s unfounced beliefs.

    • Olwyn 7.6

      When I see the name Rebstock associated with anything my antennae twitch. And my greatest fear is that we are moving toward a situation where fostering becomes the answer to a question that should never have arisen in the first place. Don’t get me wrong Hateatea, I admire what you do, and I acknowledge that there is a genuine need for people like yourself to step in where a child is in danger. But I would not like to see children who should rightly be with their parents ending up in foster care due to a lack of work, benefits or housing being inflicted on the family. It is one of the reasons why I don’t like child poverty being treated as a separate issue from poverty in general.

      It is scarily easy to see a version of the stolen generation emerging, where single mothers etc. are kicked off benefits/out of housing, and their children given to “nice middle class parents” who will be better placed to pay off overpriced houses with the subsidy.

    • TheBlackKitten 7.7

      Interesting comment & since you have experience in this area I would like to ask you a question.
      Do you remember the 9 year old girl out in West Auckland a couple of years ago that was found by the police hiding in a wardrobe with horrific injuries inflicted upon her by the family members she was living with?
      Why was that child not removed from that environment before hand? Plenty of people, including her school had tried contacting authorities about her condition.
      It was revealed that this child was subject to torture such as having toe nails torn off and salt poured into the wound and clumps hanging from her scalp due to the adults in her household grabbing her and dragging her around by her hair.
      I am sure that there are some very dedicated passionate people that work on the ground floor of CYF and other agencies that put their heart & soul into helping disadvantaged children but this particular child for some reason, was left in a house and was subject to such cruelty and it was only the result of the police visiting the house due to neighbourhood complaints about a domestic dispute that rescued her from such horrific conditions.
      Why did no one follow up on complaints about her condition and end her terror earlier?

      • tracey 7.7.1

        And yet… the police are not having a wholesale review… and they have been found in all kinds of lapses including recently where the majority of evidence was from CYF files.

        I wonder how many children could be assisted by the funds being diverted to Ms Rebstock and Co.

        What is your occupation BK?

        • Sabine 7.7.1.1

          BK is something of an Ayn Rand Fangirl, and National Mouthpiece it seems….i hope she gets paid more than minimum wage…:)

          anyways, i think what Olwyn said is important. We can not seperate Child Poverty from Parent Poverty.

          If kids go hungry, in 90 % (at least if not more) the parents have gone hungry and maybe paid electricity or rent first. Having been friend to a few single mums, (two divorced and one single by kicking dead beat dad out of the house) – i have seen the mums feed the kids and then there was nothing left, i have helped with food, paid electricity and the likes when cash was short.

          I have seen the battles these mothers had with Child Youth services….and no the mums were not abusive, or guilty of neglect. If anything they were guilty of working low paying jobs, they were guilty of not receiving any money for the kids from the kids fathers etc etc.

          We need to address Adult Poverty, Family Poverty first and foremost. All the other stuff….it is just another attempt at finding at blaming someone else for the failings of this current government.

    • Murray Simmonds 7.8

      Thank you Hateatea for a thoughtful and worthwhile contribution to what seemed to be developing into a mindless debate stage-managed by a couple of idiots who don’t understand the meaning of the word “HUMANITY”.

      “My greatest fear is that they may drive very good people out of this very challenging and important role that they undertake on behalf of us all and leave the children totally behind. ”

      Yes, I have no doubt that this is precisely what they intend. Aided and abetted, of course by right wing myopes, (a couple in particular) who just HAVE to contribute their one-eyed bullshit to this forum.

  8. Sable 8

    Maybe they could base their policy on Oliver Twist or any other Dickensian classic.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 8.1

      The classic they are thinking of is ‘The Wolf of Wall St’

      Its forgotten now but there were two films called Wolf of Wall St, the first in 1929

  9. NZJester 9

    All hail National’s roll-out of reduced CYF services and the pork contracts to be handed to Nationals friends in the private sector.
    As per normal you can bet OIA information will not be available from any of the private companies that National will be funding in the future to do all the CYF services and even more Government accountability information on their mishandling of poverty can be hidden from the general public.

  10. tc 10

    We have some outcomes that requires a sham consultation and review process to proceed it so up steps Rebstock.

    Her previous sterling efforts include delivering a supermarket duopoly, consolidating the building industry further into fletchers hands and same with TV into sky’s mitts amongst other efforts so she is emminently qualified.

  11. Paul Campbell 11

    Of course outsourcing is going to save money, CYF’s social workers aren’t paid enough, but social workers working for NGOs are paid far far worse.

    The people working at CYFs have a terrible job, there aren’t enough of them and they deal day by day with crisis, they have to make life changing calls (is that kid being abused? or does the neighbour have a grudge?) on a deadline, and if they screw up someone’s life is ruined and they end up on the front page of the paper – you never read in the paper about the great things that CYFs do.

    IMHO fully qualified social workers should be paid on a par with teachers, rather than living on the margins, whether they work at CYFs or not.

    So long as Tolley’s plan is to look after the consequences of National’s disasterous social and economic programs by spending the least amount possible things will only get worse.

    (Disclaimer: my partner is a social worker who doesn’t work for CYFs)

    • Hateatea 11.1

      I endorse your comments vis a vis social workers pay and the stressful job that CYF social workers undertake on our behalf.

      Blessings to your partner for working in this difficult field. Whether it be for children, the aged or the unwell, it can be very,very challenging work.

    • tracey 11.2

      Many NGO’s can’t afford a FT social worker on their books. Relying on volunteer goodwill.

      Teachers/nurses/social workers

      IF we get their rights and wages and level of respect in line with police officers, watch our world change.

      • Gosman 11.2.1

        Are there more social workers now than 20 years ago and have the numbers kept pace with the population growth or exceeded it?

        • tracey 11.2.1.1

          Do tell?

          • Gosman 11.2.1.1.1

            It was a question. I have tried to find statistics around it but no luck so far. I suspect the numbers of social workers has increased significantly over the past few decades and have risen at a faster rate than the population has also risen over that time. However it is no good relying on suspicion only hence the point of the question.

            • Jones 11.2.1.1.1.1

              Having worked in and around the public sector for the best part of a decade now, and across a wide-range of government agencies, my observations are the public sector is continually being asked to “do more with less”, particularly on the front-line – where resources are needed the most. So I suspect the numbers of social workers have not increased significantly in comparison to an increase in numbers of people requiring CYFs services.

              However, my main concern is with the frequency and scope of reorganisations and reviews. Politicians and senior management are able to make their portfolios a constant moving target, thereby making it too complex, or impossible, to measure any meaningful progress.

              • Draco T Bastard

                However, my main concern is with the frequency and scope of reorganisations and reviews. Politicians and senior management are able to make their portfolios a constant moving target, thereby making it too complex, or impossible, to measure any meaningful progress.

                QFT

  12. ghostwhowalksnz 12

    I wonder if the message will go out that ‘Salvation Army’ could be running these services.

    Without asking them first of course.

    The main reason why its the states responsibility, and the states only, is that in a lot of instances the children are taken from parents under compulsory order.

  13. tracey 13

    No announcement of a complete review of the Police though? If it weren’t for CYF we wouldn’t have much of the information about how the Police conducted the Roastbuster “investigation”. BUT a former Minister of Police thinks CYF’s is the organisation in need of a big overview…

    Interesting that women get appointed, as Ministers and reviewers…

  14. Penny Bright 14

    Where’s National’s review of CORPORATE welfare?

    Penny Bright

  15. The Murphey 15

    Another example of the most vulnerable being ‘murdered for profit’ with the contracts having been signed some time in the past and the review little more than lip service to a ‘process’

    Q. How many such examples will it take before people understand they are being ruled over by a system which is anti human and anti environment ?

    The system will not change it must be changed

    Until then misery death war and blood are the offerings

  16. infused 16

    Services are already outsourced. I look after a number of them. You need to actually do some research to get some grasp of what you are attempting to talk about. You don’t seem to have any idea.

    • mickysavage 16.1

      I have worked in Youth Justice for 28 years. I am well aware that services are provided by private entities. The suggestion is that there is further privatisation of services presumably those provided by social workers.

      • Gosman 16.1.1

        This suggestion is based on what evidence beyond supposition?

        • mickysavage 16.1.1.1

          Because so much is already provided privately. Besides you should ask Tolley this.

          • Gosman 16.1.1.1.1

            That seems to be a very circular argument. The point is you don’t know the outcome of this review. You can have your suspicions but until such time as they report you are merely speculating.

            • The Murphey 16.1.1.1.1.1

              Q. Why are you so interested in threads such as this ?

            • McFlock 16.1.1.1.1.2

              If this government were a mad dog, you’d argue that the bared teeth, growling and frothing at the mouth all mean nothing and that the idea that it is going to bite is mere speculation.

          • adam 16.1.1.1.2

            Should not the question be?

            If you set up a committee with all the usual ideologues and worshippers of cupidity. We should expect something different, how?

            When we know and they know –

            It’s just a iterative process.

            I for one, am sick and tired the dilettantes on the right obviating. This is real peoples lives here, not things to be fitted into some idiots ideological purism – for the sake of a few bloody dollars.

        • miravox 16.1.1.2

          “This suggestion is based on what evidence beyond supposition?”

          Bullet point two of the Scope in the Terms of Reference that this post links to. You did at least glance at it before quizzing the author didn’t you?

  17. Papa Tuanuku 17

    why is an all white panel?

    • adam 17.1

      It is, isn’t. I wonder if the token factor, of appointing Helen Leahy, was really that well thought out?

  18. saveNZ 18

    With regard to the CV of Paula above. She is from the US, educated outside of NZ, and seems to be on the board of some of the most under performing companies or organisations in NZ!
    Paula is the Deputy Chairwoman of New Zealand Railways Corporation,
    Hello, railway is a joke in NZ!
    Chairwoman of the Insurance & Savings Ombudsman Commission,
    Savings in NZ are a joke and look at the insurance industry too and Chch!
    Chair of Probation Expert Panel (Probation Service)
    Didn’t escaped murderer Phillip Smith just go off on a trip to South America after being on Probation?
    and a Member of the Shared Services Establishment Board (Health).
    Health system is in crisis.
    Get some guts, and put in Kiwi raised and educated Kiwis who can actually get REAL results not just Fuck everything up by cutting costs and move on and claim zero responsibility!
    What an underwhelming CV!

    CYPS are fucked with her doing the ‘review’!

    Get someone who actually has real experience in child protection services like a doctor or family lawyer who sees it first hand!

    • Gosman 18.1

      Health system in crisis – Really??? I haven’t seen or heard any major news story involving some sort of major Health sector problem for years. They were pretty routine during the 1990’s.

      • saveNZ 18.1.1

        @Gosman

        That is because the MSM doesn’t run stories about the health sector anymore.

        Chocolate bar size downgrades and X factor bullying are far more news worthy!

        • Gosman 18.1.1.1

          Then I would expect lots of articles about the crisis on blogs like this. There should be at least a few about the increase in deaths and overworked staff and of course huge waiting lists for all sorts of procedures. I would also expect articles about the opposition stating how much a crisis the NZ Health secor is in and how they will fix it by pumping shed loads of additional taxpayers cash at the problem.

      • Paul Campbell 18.1.2

        you obviously don’t live in Dunedin or anywhere else where National doesn’t think it can’t get votes

      • tracey 18.1.3

        example 1

        young man aged 30. Has secured full time salaried work for first time in many years due to health problems. Part of that heath problem is now totally deteriorating hips which need replacement. Has been seeing a specialist for years. 6 months ago he was put on a waiting list for hip replacement. A month ago he was removed from it. His sleep is down to 2 hours a day due to the pain. He is now practically immoble.

        He can longer attend his workplace on a regular basis.

        His specialist is doing all he can to get him back on the waiting list… note on the list not to the top.

        I have many more examples.

        Do you have private health insurance Gosman?

        I do.

        • Northshoredoc 18.1.3.1

          This case does concern me…..

          Can you confirm which DHB it relates to as on the face of it this should be a priority surgery for the orthopaedic list.

        • adam 18.1.3.2

          Why have private health insurance Tracy – don’t you pay taxes?

      • nukefacts 18.1.4

        The 1990’s were interesting – Shipley et al deliberately starved the health system of money to implement funding/provider splits then privatisation. Thankfully she got thrown out on a wave of corruption and dirty dealing before she could really get going on the second.

        Now we have an approx. 25% cut in funding that National have enacted at the last budget (real cuts, plus no compensation for inflation and population growth). You haven’t heard about it because the Media are so far up the Natz colon they couldn’t turn around to see the light at the end of the tunnel representing truth! The Parliamentary Library analysed the numbers: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1405/S00320/spin-hides-massive-budget-cuts-to-health-and-education.htm

        What about all that unmet need out there? Oh says the Nats, that’s anecdote but we won’t measure it. Well GP’s and hospitals ARE seeing it, reflected especially in big upturns in highly serious cases requiring expensive surgical intervention, that should have been seen earlier but were deferred or thrown off waiting lists to keep budgets under control.

      • DoublePlusGood 18.1.5

        Had a look at health stats recently?

      • Descendant Of Sssmith 18.1.6

        Here’s a DHB report from Hawke’s Bay.

        http://www.hawkesbay.health.nz/file/fileid/50326

        What’s also interesting about this report is that it re-affirms that poverty is a key factor in poor health outcomes.

        Like that’s rocket science.

        So just like reviewing CYF reviewing the health system would make little difference.

        (Though I’d rather have a fully integrated nation health system that the stupid fake competitive board system we have at the moment).

        What will make a difference is a much better distribution of jobs and wealth, ensuring all children get off to a good start and are well fed, less affliction of what are really moral than practical and necessary obligations on unemployed, unwell and parents through the benefit system and a much more communal caring society,

        So yeah health is in crisis and they know it – they just recognise that like CYF they are also the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

        It doesn’t matter where you look – health, housing, education, protection of young people – the practitioners in those organisations seem to recognise that they are a result of the poor economic and societal changes we have made over the last 30 years.

        Those changes that have resulted in increased inequality. Those that have benefited are smug and have a great desire to inflict more of the same – their greed no knows bounds and the evidence they choose to look at is that which suits their ideology. Why not it’s what their political masters expect of them.

  19. saveNZ 19

    BTW Gosman coming out to bat for Paula redneck oops I mean Rebstock how is your power bill going? Noticed how the daily rate of power is now up to $1.70 per day in some companies BEFORE ZERO power, then maintenance change and GST on top. Thanks Paula for being assoc commissioner of the commerce commission! You really stop Kiwis being ripped off!

    I feel safe for the poor children of CYPS with you in charge of a review, NOT!

  20. Once was Tim 20

    Good post MckyS. By now, we SHOULD know what a Natzi reorganisation means …. their past efforts have been so bloody spectacular – especially when they’re conducted by that ticket clipper (Joyce) who seems to have earned the title of Mr Fixit – as opposed to Mr Fuxit). One really only has to look as his past form as evidenced by that TOTAL bugger’s muddle of a Munstry called MoBIE (Any irriot could/should have seen the intent of that little exercise – and we now have the apologists- including the corporatised CEO in desperation trying to make excuses for something that was NEVER going to work (I mean ……. Immigration is now in amongst that total fuck-up with staff trying to get people to do their work for them – I’d elaborate (with what’s now 3 specific cases) but it’d take too long but it involves immigrant international students/ fucking horrible employers/ deportation orders to be executes asap before things get embarrassing/ great lumbering lumps of lard enforcenment officers – with apologies to whoever it was that objected to my last use of the word lard (with bedroom relationships to immigration ‘consultants/advocates/advisors)…..
    ANyway – that’s that Mr Fixit. Rebstock’s record isn’t any better.
    These Natzis seem to have a ‘tearist slama “death-cult”‘ phobia about things – applying labels (as per the Croz/Txt ideology) in the hope it’ll stick. Unfortunately it HAS stuck for the past 6 years but I’m thinking even parts of the MSM are starting to wise up – if only because one of their own has been affected recently – even causing a buy election. They’re the foreskins of the pot and kettle and the colour-blind/black-and-white blind junta that can’t see shades that range between balck and fucking white.

    Things in the 60’s and 70s AND well before weren’t that great ….. but if anyone thinks that a neo-lib, corporatisation, run-as-a-bizz approach is going to make it all better – KEEP FUCKING THINKING!

    Btw people – Just what IS YOUR (Y O U R) definition of fascism? Because what I understand it to be ( as some have commented – it should really be referred to as ‘corporatism’), means our Dear Leader John (fawn fawn) with the son who is a d-d-d-d-DEE- j-j-j-j-JAY – relexd;cumftuble and a liberated daughter – equally comfotable with displaying her bits (both – a la R E A L I T Y TV stoil IS the closest thing NZ has come to a nanny-interventionist-surveiling-corrupt-personality-driven STATE we’ve ever had.
    Really its just that the sound-bite oriented, bit-by-bit means of the populace’s understanding (incrementalism) hasn’t yet noticed. (Moik Sabin anyone?)

    • tracey 20.1

      The thing is Tim, it’s perfectly OK to call people commies and socialist, to use Helengrad as a label for the last PM but compare Key to facist leader and it’s committing the cardinal sin.

      Godwin, it seems, didnt see fit to provide for the resorting to commie epithets. Prolly co she was a fascist 😉

      • Northshoredoc 20.1.1

        People who call Helen Clark a communist are just as dim as those who call key a Nazi/fascist.

        All a bit silly really.

        • tracey 20.1.1.1

          you jackbooted stalin loving doctor.., 😉

        • DoublePlusGood 20.1.1.2

          Only an anarcho-syndicalist would say that!

        • Once was Tim 20.1.1.3

          I’m not ekshully surprised a north shore doc would come up with that. The rot goes back a long long way – a Northshore doc willing to pass jusdgment on others (especially the likes of PU), all the while knowing his own son finds it ok to have a little lapse from time to time.

          You’re a smart fella Northshore but just like the keyster – you’re totally ok with the double standard. Arrogant and full of bullshit.

          There’s a ‘hotspot across the ditch’ that’s prayig and spinning.
          For me – you’re one of the reasons I find it hard to engage with this site sometimes altough I suspect you’re aware of some potential little embarrasments (Things like “Pillars” and the Ork da york communiy centre.

          (Btw ……. Winnie the Poo has a number of possibilities dontcha think?

          • Northshoredoc 20.1.1.3.1

            I suspect that the reason you find it hard to engage with this site is that like Phil u you can be largely incoherent.

  21. The Chairman 21

    It’s interesting to see that the discontent largely being expressed here doesn’t reflect the reported position of the opposition parties.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/cyf-overhaul-welcomed-by-opposition-parties-2015040205

    • The Chairman 21.1

      In other words, this discontent seems to have no political representation/voice.

      • tracey 21.1.1

        I can’t find MP statements on this. I know they are not Opposition. Or Peter Dunne.

        The political division will, no doubt, show up during the process and when the recommendations come out, and what parts are implemented.

        Do you not find it odd that no one from Child centered anything from NZ was considered for the group, while a Brit was?

        • The Chairman 21.1.1.1

          There were supportive comments from opposition MPs in the link I provided above.

          One can only hope support will waver as the process proceeds .

          No representation from Child Youth and Family is not only odd, it’s outrageous. And it’s something opposition parties should be pointing out from the get go.

          To be clear, I share most of the discontent being expressed here. And like most, I’m disappointed there seems to be no political representation of the concerns expressed.

          • tracey 21.1.1.1.1

            Sorry, by MP I meant Maori Party…

            I get very frustrated by how little they share publicly, including if they were consulted before something like this, in terms of the review and the panel.

            I suspect the review opens the door for the Opposition to expose an economically framed/driven review and the shortcomings on any recommendation implementation…

            • The Chairman 21.1.1.1.1.1

              Indeed, Tracey, this does open that door.

              Therefore, instead of overlooking this and welcoming the review one would have expected opposition parties to act accordingly and highlight this. Thus, expressing and representing the concern largely being expressed here.

              It would be interesting to know if the Maori Party have any concerns.

    • lprent 21.2

      *sigh* Have you ever considered that an MP is not a political parties, that political parties don’t have opinions because they aren’t individuals, and that the comments here are not made by politicians or political parties?

      What you are looking at is a few individuals who are members of a party reflecting either a general policy position or a political positions by MPs and their staffs. In all probability no-one here was ever involved in the process.

      Based on your meaningless dribble (and we won’t speculate from which orifice you produced it from), are you just a fool or do you have mental defect?

      Use your brain please rather than just doing graffiti by being a simple wanker….

      • The Chairman 21.2.1

        As comments here are largely made anonymously, I have no idea who most commentators are.

        Political parties generally have a party position.

        I was highlighting that opposition parties reportedly welcome the overhaul, thus the discontent largely being expressed here isn’t being expressed by opposition parties.

        In other words, isn’t being expressed as the party’s position or party line.

        Whether individual MPs feel otherwise and whether they comment here doesn’t change the fact that collectively no political party holds a position that represents this seemingly widespread discontent.

        • saveNZ 21.2.1.1

          I think child youth and family need an overhaul.

          Just by someone who has a clue and gives a damn. Not an American economist aka Paula R. Who’s has a very underwhelming success rate locally and seems to be just another ‘woman’ from Washington here to create the next US state in NZ with American ‘values’ on turning social welfare into corporate welfare.

          In fact there should be a new government organisation in corporate welfare.

          CWNZ. Corporate Welfare of New Zealand. Key, Joyce and assoc at the helm and Paula R. as the chair. Sky City are a founding member. Ports of Auckland, Roading companies, Power companies, (remember the woman who died after her oxygen machine was cut off by Mighty River Power) etc etc

          There is also the international arm, GCSB for 5 eyes, ministry of defence as Fire fodder in the middle East etc etc That is IGWNZ (International Government Welfare NZ)

          I sure the good contributors of The Standard have many nominations for CWNZ and IGWNZ.

    • the pigman 21.3

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/67589148/child-abuse-rise-sparks-child-youth-and-family-review

      “Labour Party children spokeswoman Jacinda Ardern says evidence pointed to CYF already being “stretched as a department” yet it was working with 20,000 more children with no new resources.

      There were ongoing concerns about CYF’s ability to do the job, she said.

      “It’s not only about ongoing resourcing issues, but also about whether CYF is equipped and supported to do what it is tasked to do – improving the lives of vulnerable young Kiwis.”

      She said some of the terminology being used around the review, including an “investment approach”, was disturbing.

      Hardly sounds as if she’s getting in behind the Natzis and Rebstock does it?

      • The Chairman 21.3.1

        It was far from a hard stance and overall she still welcomed the review despite of this .

        There were no calls from Labour to change the head or make up of the independent panel.

  22. millsy 22

    Two words: Destiny Church.

    Need I say more?

  23. joe90 23

    And we’re off, again.
    /

    Recommendation 1
    a) In the short term, more accurately define and articulate Child, Youth and Family’s
    operational mandate and core business in care and protection to:

    reflect and target its focus on assessing and protecting the most high need and
    the most vulnerable children and young people

    provide greater clarity and guidelines for social workers and referring agencies as
    to which children and young people may require a statutory child protection
    response, and which would be better supported by a non-statutory response.
    b) Work with government and non-government partners to develop clear and
    commonly understood definitions of needs, risks and outcomes for vulnerable children
    and young people to:

    provide clarity for both Child, Youth and Family social workers and partner
    agencies, enhancing the ability to work collaboratively and provide a range of
    services around children with multiple and varying levels of need

    support and assist the strategic direction of the Vulnerable Children’s Board in the
    development of both improved capacity and capability to work effectively with
    vulnerable children and their families across all sectors – both government and
    non-government

    re-negotiate contracts with non-government providers to offer more services and
    support for children who are currently directed to Child, Youth and Family.

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_0Qy1GmA4_cJ:https://www.msd.govt.nz/documents/about-msd-and-our-work/newsroom/media-releases/2014/workload-and-casework-review.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz

    http://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/newsroom/media-releases/2014/statement-from-brendan-boyle-chief-executive.html

  24. the pigman 24

    I got the impression (and I do not recall where) that the government was considering changes to the CYF Act to reduce the number of children living with whanau/extended family and subject to care plans for long periods by encouraging a more UK-style “permanency” (adoption)-first approach.

    Having worked for a local authority in the UK doing the C&P work, the idea that more adoptions will reduce the net financial burden on the state is completely absurd (at least with the resources that are thrown at supporting permanency over there).

    Social workers in the UK tended to regard extended family placements with enormous derision, too. They seemed to assume that if the child’s family life was arse, the extended families’ lives would be munted by extension.

    Whatever the case, I can’t see the Maori Party coming on board to support changes that will see more Maori kids raised in “more suitable white families”.

  25. RedBaronCV 25

    How come the Police Commissioner has the time to sit on this? Oh that’s right his cops don’t investigate the alleged sexual abuse of 13 and 14 year olds so he has all the time in the world.

  26. Jim 27

    Nice- 5 sitting MP’s have name suppression for child abuse- and they are now going to
    “reform” CYFS. Anyone who lets the Govt and their MP’s anywhere near their children, needs their heads read. or needs to get off the welfare/ warfare system at least. It is designed to cripple parents – so the State has easier access to their kids. Same model in Britain – in fact they designed it. Its a govt procurement operation- nothing more or less.

    • saveNZ 27.1

      That is terrible. I knew quite a few MP’s were corrupt I didn’t realise so many of them are being investigated for child abuse. No wonder we have such high family violence, if some MP’s have a vested interest in keeping it that way.

      Look at the UK with the scandal with Greville Ewan Janner, Baron Janner of Braunstone a British Labour politician, lawyer and author being investigated for child abuse and his victims were denied justice when they reported it because of who he was.

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