Time to up the pressure on our leaders

38 comments on “Time to up the pressure on our leaders ”

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1. Bill 1

   22 December 2009 at 10:39 am

   As Johann Hari points out….”If I go out for a picnic and the temperature rises or falls by 2C, I don’t much notice. But this is the wrong analogy. If your body temperature rises by 2C, you become feverish and feeble. If it doesn’t go back down again, you die. The climate isn’t like a picnic; it’s more like your body.”

   Meanwhile Chavez reckons “we are capable of not making this Earth the tomb of humanity.”…but he was accused f monkey wrenching Copenhagen by, among others…..(big drum roll please as we welcome the man with a plan)…. Gordon Brown who wanks on thus ….”We will need to harness the best of low carbon technology for the world to continue to grow,”

   The disconnect is enormous. And while I welcome civil disobedience and direct action, I sometimes wonder if that is enough to cut it.

   Some days it seems to me that Baader Mienhof type solutions will be necessary. I think they will happen anyway. And the protagonists will be branded as terrorists. And Gordon and Barak et al will try to construct a world where the elites they serve will carry on as usual and we all get a free trip to hell in a wheelbarrow.

   But yeah. Time is up. Most assuredly.
   • prism 1.1

     22 December 2009 at 10:56 am

     Work will make us free – or get us the free trip to hell in a wheelbarrow. Commerce, coerce.
   • ieuan 1.2

     22 December 2009 at 11:02 am

     Why is Chavez the hero? Because he is anti-American and anti-capitalist?

     Does everyone just conveniently forget that Venezuela is a massive petroleum producer?
     • Bill 1.2.1

       22 December 2009 at 11:08 am

       Read the bloody speech ieaun. And compare it to Brown’s and the speeches of the others who made themselves members of what can only be termed an undemocratic cabal.

       Nobody is calling him a hero. But I will call Brown, Obama et al for being pathetic shadows of humanity.
       • ieuan 1.2.1.1

         22 December 2009 at 11:14 am

         I’ve read the speech, he states the bloody obvious but offers no solutions, other than let’s smash capitalism – yep that’s going to work.
         • Bill 1.2.1.1.1

           22 December 2009 at 11:56 am

           But smashing Capitalism, as you term it, is the bloody obvious first step to a solution.
           • ieuan 1.2.1.1.1.1

             22 December 2009 at 12:08 pm

             I’ll try and make this real simple for you…………

             If you take your car to a mechanic because it is running too rich and the mechanic says:

             ‘I’ve got two options to sort out the problem –
             (1) We crush the car,
             (2) We fine tune the operation of the carburettor’

             Which option are you going to take?
             • Draco T Bastard …

               22 December 2009 at 2:02 pm

               There’s a difference, the car works – capitalism doesn’t.
       • Gosman 1.2.1.2

         22 December 2009 at 11:20 am

         His speech was typical demagogue blustering from a Third world petty dictator. It offering nothing in the way of actual solutions other than to blame the ‘evil capitalist’ system for everything and how it needs to change to save us all.

         I’ve read similar speeches from one of his mates, R G Mugabe.
         • Tigger 1.2.1.2.1

           22 December 2009 at 11:23 am

           I’d save the Mugabe comparisons for someone who deserves them. It’s a low blow.
           • Gosman 1.2.1.2.1.1

             22 December 2009 at 11:32 am

             It is hardly a low blow to compare Mugabe and Chavez. They are in fact political allies cut from the same idealogical cloth.

             Mugabe actually made a speech at Copenhagen which made some very valid points, as Chavez did as well. However I’m not sure he will be championed as much by members of the liberal left in the West.
             • Daveo …

               22 December 2009 at 11:37 am

               Yeah, the man who’s repeatedly won free and fair elections by a large majority and presides over a booming economy is akin to Mugabe.

               I bet you were one of the pathetic Farrar clones last year comparing Clark to Mugabe too. “Oh, I know they’re not the same, but they’re cut from the same ideological cloth.”
             • Gosman …

               22 December 2009 at 11:45 am

               I’m just telling you that Chavez and Mugabe are good mates as well as being ideological bunk mates. Have you read Mugabe’s Copenhagen speech?

               And no I wasn’t foolish enough to compare Clark to Mugabe. I think this is as stupid as trying to equate the National party with Facism.
             • Daveo …

               22 December 2009 at 12:02 pm

               Did you read Tuvalu’s comments, those of the Maldives? Are they in league with Mugabe?
             • Gosman …

               22 December 2009 at 12:10 pm

               I don’t know, are they calling for the over throw of the Capitalist system and an end to Western double standards on Human Rights and Climate change?
         • ieuan 1.2.1.2.2

           22 December 2009 at 11:25 am

           And John Minto who seemed to plagiarize the whole of Chavez’s speech for his column in todays CHCH ‘Press’.
         • Daveo 1.2.1.2.3

           22 December 2009 at 11:33 am

           ‘dictator’.

           You must think we’re idiots to try and run that line mate. Save it for kiwiblog.
           • Gosman 1.2.1.2.3.1

             22 December 2009 at 11:46 am

             BTW Mugabe won the last election. Didn’t you read about it?

             That is why he is the recognised President of his country.
             • Daveo …

               22 December 2009 at 12:01 pm

               Wasn’t free and fair. Fundamental difference. Chavez’s was approved by international observers.
             • Gosman …

               22 December 2009 at 12:12 pm

               I’m sorry but Mugabe’s Presidency has been endorsed by his fellow democratically elected Heads of State of SADC.

               Since when did you need to get approval of international observers for Democratic legitmacy anyway? Did John Key or Helen Clark get this approval?
           • Daveo 1.2.1.2.3.2

             22 December 2009 at 12:23 pm

             Mugabe won the recent election after a campaign of violence, intimidation, bribery and vote-rigging. A power-sharing arrangement was organised as a compromise to avoid a descent into outright dictatorship and encourage the restoration of proper democracy.

             http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe#Elections

             There is simply no comparison with Venezuela, where Chavez has repeatedly won free and fair elections by substantial majorities.

             International observers aren’t generally needed in developed countries. In developing countries, particularly those where there is a high level of corruption or a weak democratic tradition international observers are common. I raised this point to contrast the recent elections in Venezuela and Zimbabwe, one of which was free and democratic, one of which wasn’t.

             Given your disgraceful intellectual dishonesty so far I frankly don’t see much point continuing this discussion with you.
             • BLiP …

               22 December 2009 at 2:17 pm

               Intellectual dishonesty? Intellectual vacuum, more like.
         • Bill 1.2.1.2.4

           22 December 2009 at 11:59 am

           Gosman.

           Can’t you assume the appropriate level of responsibility and take appropriate actions to save yourself?

           What’s with “it ( evil capitalism) needs to change to save us all”. That’s not really any different to ‘He (Jesus) needs to return to save us all.’

           Sad.
           • Gosman 1.2.1.2.4.1

             22 December 2009 at 12:14 pm

             Why are you equating the overthrow of the Capitalist system with superstitious nonsense about religious salvation?

             Unless you are implying both are equally fairy tales.
2. infused 2

   22 December 2009 at 11:01 am

   I look forward to warmer weather. You could look at this another way. Global warming might serve as a good population control measure. huh, huh?
   • Bright Red 2.1

     22 December 2009 at 11:13 am

     doesn’t work like that.

     The problem with population growth is not ‘too many people’ in and of itself. It’s that it takes our demand on resources beyond the Earth’s carrying capacity. Reducing the Earth’s carrying capacity via climate change only makes that worse.

     I’d prefer population control that wasn’t mass starvation.
3. Bill 3

   22 December 2009 at 11:03 am

   Or if you’re unemployed you might just appropriate the slogan and convert it to scrap…I kind of liked the irony.

   http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/auschwitz-arbeit-macht-frei-sign
   • Bill 3.1

     22 December 2009 at 11:10 am

     That comment should have placed below Prism’s 10:56 comment to make contextural sense.
4. Gosman 4

   22 December 2009 at 11:16 am

   So essentially it isn’t about working together to try and limit global emissions of Greenhouse gasses. It is about overthrowing the Capitalist system and redistributing wealth via a Revolution.

   Do you honestly think this has any chance of success?

   You do realise that large parts of the population will be alienated by these actions, including the vital middle classes that are necessary for Democratic legitimacy?
   • Bill 4.1

     22 December 2009 at 11:51 am

     You are appearing dim Gosman.

     It is Capitalism that pitches each one of us against the other. This is as true for countries as it is for individuals.

     Is there some sort of Revolution In A Can I don’t know about, or have you figured its dynamics through the study of chicken entrails?

     What if there was recognition of the communality of wealth. Doesn’t get redistributed if that’s the case does it?

     Meanwhile, the middle classes are becoming estranged from post war dream capitalism as they realise that downward mobility is the new norm for them.
     There are plenty of alternative visions and strategies for attaining them out there. It’s just a question of which one/ones or combination of factors come together to begin the process of revolution and whether it happens soon enough and fast enough..
     • Gosman 4.1.1

       22 December 2009 at 11:54 am

       Two words for you Bill –

       Dream on.
       • Bill 4.1.1.1

         22 December 2009 at 12:02 pm

         Dreams change the world if and when they are reified.

         Why don’t you dare to dream Gosman?
         • Gosman 4.1.1.1.1

           22 December 2009 at 12:06 pm

           Because I’m too much of a realist Bill and I know that the only outcome of any radical ‘change’ is to make things a whole lot worse.
           • Bill 4.1.1.1.1.1

             22 December 2009 at 4:56 pm

             You fear ( know) things will only get worse. Okay. So you are frightened. Glad to get the matter out of the way.
     • ieuan 4.1.2

       22 December 2009 at 12:03 pm

       Geez Bill, viva the revolution!

       You smoking too many Cuban cigars or something?
       • Bill 4.1.2.1

         22 December 2009 at 5:01 pm

         You, like Gosman, also have some instant ‘Revolution In A Can’. Take some advice and leave the seal intact.

         Does it perhaps come with a Bolshevic health warning?

         Question. What is it that leads you to think or believe that revolution in a capitalist context can only lead to a USSR dungeon scenario?

         Have you no imagination? No ability to recognise previous detrimental patterns, drivers or dynamics and avoid them going forward?
5. BLiP 5

   22 December 2009 at 1:03 pm

   We’ve got the leaders we deserve. They are simply following the example set by the us, the sheeple, who thrash the plastic to buy plastic packaged plastic crap, who flood the streets in the morning and afternoon to drive the kids to school, who can’t be fucked taking our own bags to the supermarket, who scoff at Greenpeace, who cheer government subsidies to polluters, and stuff our rubbish bins full every week deluding ourselves that once its gone then its someone else’s problem.

   Wake the fuck up!
   • Gosman 5.1

     22 December 2009 at 1:58 pm

     Hey up! That’s done the trick. Everybody is awake now and onboard with you.

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