Wastewatch: measuring graduate incomes

22 comments on “Wastewatch: measuring graduate incomes ”

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1. Lanthanide 1

   14 March 2012 at 8:56 am

   In principle I don’t have too much of a problem with this, although I would have thought there was enough pay information out there already? The job seeking sites certainly have this sort of ‘average remuneration’ stuff available, I’m pretty sure hich-school jobs counsellors do as well. So what is new/different about this information that makes it necessary or better?

   Also I wonder why they need to go through this whole individual rigmarole process to find it out, so we’ll get the first data 5 years from now.

   Everyone who is employed pays (or should be paying) ACC, which has a huge number of job classifications available. It should be possible to connect people’s wage payments with their employers and then check the business code of their employer. This would give a very rough and ready approach (a secretary at a factory might be misclassified?) but it seems like no new information would need to be collected to do this (except possibly permission as Zet suggests).
   • shreddakj 1.1

     14 March 2012 at 9:32 am

     Don’t forget, National love to do everything the expensive, inefficient way. Like building more roads, instead of funding a decent public transport system.
   • Blighty 1.2

     14 March 2012 at 9:53 am

     yeah, it’s not that different parts of the government don’t have your info. it’s whether they have the right to data-match, what the exercise would cost, whether it would tell you anything useful, and the reductionist approach to education that pervades the whole thing.
2. The Baron 2

   14 March 2012 at 9:53 am

   Oh noes, Zetty has his knickers in a knot again after interviewing his keyboard.

   All this proposal involves is providing more information to prospective students, some of whom may be interested in the likely salaries they may achieve, to allow them to make more informed decisions.

   Its you who has made up the other 70% of scare mongery in your post, Zetty.

   Why is the left so scared of transparency and informed decision making? This, teacher and school performance – in fact, its anything that might hold public servants to account isn’t it?
   • Blighty 2.1

     14 March 2012 at 10:20 am

     The issue is that merely looking at average incomes doesn’t contribute to informed decision-making.
3. Bored 3

   14 March 2012 at 10:15 am

   Why is the left so scared of transparency and informed decision making?…..one might ask that question about the rationale for asset sales, just one example from the myriad of issues that Nact have tried to spin doctor away in-case detailed examination reveals that informed decision making is entirely absent.

   By the way why don’t you change your name to The Barren? At least then there might be some transparency to everybody about the intellectual wasteland behind the comments.
4. The Baron 4

   14 March 2012 at 10:56 am

   Why not? Knowing that the average BA History grad earns $25k a year at maccas versus the average B.Sci biochem grad on $60k sounds pretty handy to me if I was 18 agian.

   I know there are heaps of other factors in play. Why does that make providing one of them useless?
   • The Baron 4.1

     14 March 2012 at 11:06 am

     Fail – this was meant to be in reply to Blighty above as 2.1.1
   • Blighty 4.2

     14 March 2012 at 12:06 pm

     because if you don’t provide the full picture, you give misleading answers.
   • Lanthanide 4.3

     14 March 2012 at 12:36 pm

     Apparently you already know this, so why do we need a brand-new government initiative, which won’t be free, to find out?

     I suggested one alternative that may be cheaper than the scheme that has been proposed.
   • Colonial Viper 4.4

     14 March 2012 at 12:49 pm

     Uni grads join the unemployment scrap heap like everyone else, although they have bigger debts.

     A sad declining energy depleting civilisation which has no economic room for arts, history, language or culture. Might as well become a race of free market Ferengis.
5. s y d 5

   14 March 2012 at 11:00 am

   i suspect that graduate earnings are going to be directly linked student loans and the supposed ability to pay back – this will be the ‘shake up’ hinted at yesterday.
   If you want to study photography or zoology, by all means go ahead, but the amount you can ‘borrow’ will be severely restricted.
   However, I’m sure that loans will be directed to where there there is a supposed expectation of payback – I foresee legions of accountants and lawyers taking us into the brighter future.
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     14 March 2012 at 12:52 pm

     Accountants and lawyers, well that’s a really productive economy we can build with those, should get Christchurch rebuilt asap.
6. tc 6

   14 March 2012 at 11:12 am

   All roads lead to Rome……doing a low income producing course can often lead a person to a high income one as they must find their own path in life.
   How many of us high earning professionals are in areas we never started on at Uni ? More mother knows best bullshit from the biggest bullshiter of them all.
   Must be a slow day in dirty deal central, this is a precursor for some pretermined policy announcement and will play the role of supporting data when the time comes.
7. mac1 7

   14 March 2012 at 11:15 am

   Spot on, Zetetic.

   Current research would compel Minister Joyce to value his year 11 photography course.

   “In a landmark Australian study, the power of the arts in the classroom has been proven incontestably and irrefutably to lift test results in literacy and numeracy to the equivalent of an extra year of school.”

   Read more here- http://www.artshub.com.au/au/news-article/opinions/arts/www.artshub.com.au/au/news-article/opinions/arts/the-transformative-power-of-the-arts-in-education-187929

   Government intervention in this area would certainly be cost effective.
8. ropata 8

   14 March 2012 at 12:45 pm

   I have no problem with incentives to head for certain careers (and disincentives for others), NZ needs skilled and qualified teachers, builders, IT workers, doctors, nurses. Applicants should also be assessed for suitability.

   Arts and humanities contribute greatly to society but (other than educators) only a few shining talents make a career of it, so to me they seem like an unaffordable luxury.
   • McFlock 8.1

     14 March 2012 at 12:51 pm

     Trouble is, without the humanities it becomes far too easy for the wider picture to be lost and we end up wondering why we need so many teachers, doctors and so on.
           
     Yes I’m biased, but I really think that humanities are a bit like a car chassis – it isn’t obvious, and doesn’t really do anything, but you tend to miss it when it’s gone. All of a sudden and without warning, and at the most inopportune moment.
      
   • Populuxe1 8.2

     14 March 2012 at 8:42 pm

     Bollocks. Artists, as a rule, are considerably more entrepreneurial than most MBAs. They have to be in order to survive. They frequently find multiple crossover applications for their skills. They are happy to take lower paid, part time work so that they can continue to work on their art. And no artist has ever been afraid of a blank piece of paper – unlike the so-called “business”-orientated, they actually generate ideas rather than exploit other people’s .
9. Armchair Critic 9

   14 March 2012 at 1:00 pm

   Some of assumptions underlying this are astounding.
   It assumes that remuneration is the main factor for choosing a course, or a career.
   It assumes that averages are representative – they are not. A median, quartiles and sample size would be helpful.
   Annual income data assume full-time work – not all graduates can or do work full time.
   It will not include the graduates that head overseas as soon as they can to get away from the terrible salaries in NZ.
   This is a dumb idea, and a waste of money.
10. Peter 10

    14 March 2012 at 3:30 pm

    I not that the new IRD Commissioner has a Master of Arts in English Literature and Sociology. I wonder how she would fare under Joyce’s new order?
11. tsmithfield 11

    14 March 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Students invest a considerable amount in taking out a student loan. It is only fair that they be given some information on the likely return they will make on their investment. This doesn’t have to mean restrictions to courses or such. In fact, Joyce, on Newstalk ZB last night, ruled out that possibility.
    • McFlock 11.1

      14 March 2012 at 4:39 pm

      Yup, education is all about the benjamins. /facepalm
       

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