Why we debate

Written By: - Date published: 11:55 am, July 18th, 2021 - 18 comments
Categories: Deep stuff, The Standard - Tags: , , ,

I spend a fair amount of my time on The Standard exploring and explaining how the debate culture here works. In part because I’m a moderator, but also because I love arguing when it is done well so I want debate culture here to be as functional as it can be.

Moderation is often reactive to a negative situation, which is not so much fun, so I’m going to try and write a series of posts about debate, why it matters, and how to do it well, with particular reference to politics and online spaces including The Standard.

Incognito also from time to time writes about how The Standard works, how to debate well and why that matters.

Today’s post is about a concept I’ve come across from three completely different thinkers in recent times: the idea that our arguments and, in my opinion, our politics and thus our society, improve when we can understand our opponent’s perspective in a reasonable and neutral light.

I’ve been listening to this episode of The Hive Podcast where Webs of Influence: The Psychology of Online Persuasion, author Natalie Nahai interviews Dr Tom Chatfield. Chatfield is,

… a best-selling author and philosopher of technology, whose new book, How to Think, explores the habits and practices that are fundamental to clear thinking and effective study.

From the ethics of AI, and tech in deep time, to the philosophy of fake news and what it means to think well, Tom’s work explores how we might improve our experiences and understanding of ourselves, of one another and of technology.

Lots of goodies in the podcast, this is the one that stood out today. Tom Chatfield,

There’s a classic observation which among others the philosopher Daniel Dennet has made. Which is that if you disagree with someone or if you are entering into a debate, one of the best ways to do this with integrity is to first of all try and state someone else’s position in a form that they would agree is reasonable and strong.

And then to outline where you may agree with them and have some kind of common ground. And only then, after you have done that, to explain where and how and why you may disagree with them. Or be uncertain and be seeking a mutual line of investigation. And you don’t do this just because it’s nice, and you don’t want to offend anybody, or you don’t have any opinions, you do this because if you are genuinely interested in trying to work out what’s going on, and understand things, you really do need to try and encounter other people’s ideas, or new ideas, in their strongest possible form.

And you need to put your own strongly held ideas to a meaningful test. It’s no good repeating slogans or kind of beating the drum for an orthodoxy. That may or may not be a righteous thing to do, but it’s unpersuasive. And it doesn’t create any of these kind of I think empathetic or compassionate spaces where hopefully, maybe, sometimes we can learn to understand each other a little better, and understand what’s going on around us a little more rigorously.

Being able to understand someone else’s point of view empathetically, is exactly the social practice we need at this point of increasing polarisation and social break down. We need to remember that we are all human beings. Empathy here doesn’t mean sympathy, and if the idea of having empathy for a political rival’s position grates, consider it good strategy instead.

Because it doesn’t mean agreeing with someone else we disagree with, it means that we make the time to understand what they’re talking about rather than projecting our own ideas onto what they are talking about.

For the left this is especially valuable as our tendency to think ‘we know everything because we’re on the side of good’ is failing to bring along many.

It also matters because social media culture sets us up for cheap wins rather than building a body of argument that will sustain itself over time.

And strong, healthy debate culture based on shared understanding rather than shouting slogans at each other or circling the same argument drain for the zillionth time because we’re not listening to each other, will benefit us. Not only is it more pleasurable and satisfying, but such a culture means our own arguments will be engaged with for what they are rather than the bastard child that comes out of the brain of someone who wants to win or distort rather than understand.

There’s another whole post here about how the social media giants have spent a decade training us to fight each other so they can make money, but I am curious whether the current Standardistas still have enough immunity to be able to cultivate an atmosphere based in respect and good process, and what that might look like here specifically.

 

18 comments on “Why we debate ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    18 July 2021 at 1:12 pm

    I guess political culture is enriched by debate when there's a ferment of thought generated, new insights, a sense of emerging progress rather than stasis. However, that could just be my subjective slant on it. Judith's billboards are interesting in that they demand a debate. Supply & demand economic theory then kicks in & everyone wonders who will supply it. She seems to expect the govt to do so – but I doubt it & feel she's just being disingenuous. A charade.

    You're right to encourage the real thing. Trouble is, a multidimensional mess tends to erupt due to biodiversity. That makes framing essential, to herd participants into a collective focus on key dimensions. Complex systems seem like a random walk but there's order in with the chaos. Intelligent design implemented via nudge theory can steer a bunch of debaters. One could liken a political debating group to an ecosystem, but also to a crowd of passengers on a ship. Steering then becomes relative to the destination, eh?

    As regards group psychodynamics, they get driven by perceptions of common ground vs differential tendencies. Those who tacitly seek to differentiate from others fall into the partisan trap. So we must transcend our innate individualism by mental discipline, to focus on what we share. Then common interests clarify. I agree re empathy, I'm just pointing out that more steering seems required – which can emerge from the group as often as from a leader or moderator.

    • weka 1.1
      18 July 2021 at 1:26 pm

      I was chuffed when looking for a front page image for the post to find one that said 'create the debate'. Counterpoint to Collins' macho politics.

      TS culture is hardwired for argument and oppositional debate. I agree that steering can come from the group as well as leaders (authors) and mods. Encouragement and demonstration of useful debate alongside targeted moderation as needed seems the key to me. The encouragement and demonstration is on all of us. Moderation has failed this at times by taking out key players who have good debate skills. There's a kind of entrophy there and I'm not sure how to change that. I've seen it in other online debate culture groups I've been in as well. Maybe the destination you mention is the key? Do we have a lack of purpose?

    • Robert Guyton 1.2
      18 July 2021 at 2:12 pm

      Dennis: "So we must transcend our innate individualism by mental discipline, to focus on what we share." Indeed, indeed, indeed! We "what-ever-it-is-that-we-ares" (Lefties etc.) refine our views more and more finely as time goes by: we love dissection, finesse and believing that we hold "special" knowledge and views, we can't seem to help excluding or alienating our own; this is a fatal flaw that I hope will be covered in more detail here, by weka and those who join the debate.

      • Dennis Frank 1.2.1
        18 July 2021 at 2:29 pm

        I suspect you see that due to your experience of practical politics, Robert. Mine certainly transformed my idiosyncratic attitudes substantially. I still get the subjective reflexes, which may trigger anger etc, but have mellowed sufficiently that I usually engage topics with more of a dispassionate style than is natural to me! wink

  2. SPC 2
    18 July 2021 at 1:51 pm

    A man with a conviction is a hard man to change.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/denial-science-chris-mooney/

    Once you learn about this mental habit – called confirmation bias – you start seeing it everywhere.

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20170131-why-wont-some-people-listen-to-reason

  3. Robert Guyton 3
    18 July 2021 at 2:04 pm

    Weka, you wrote: "but I am curious whether the current Standardistas still have enough immunity to be able to cultivate an atmosphere based in respect and good process" but where you've used, "whether", shouldn't that read, "why it is that"?

    In truth, I find most-if-not-all on-line forums for debate interesting; even Kiwiblog et cetera, as there are bright folk everywhere, arguing for their beliefs. I no longer spend any more than the most fleeting of moments on those sites, as they are over-populated with shallow thinkers amongst whom the smarter, or at least, funnier, ones roam, for reasons known only to themselves, but don't dismiss them out of hand.

    There are some built-in impediments to on-line debating, mis-interpreting being but one of them, but tonal matters too. I've puttered about on-line forums for many years now and believe I've benefitted greatly from reading the views of others who's views are different from my own and have found that as a result, I've become a lot quieter in debates out in the real world 🙂 The most fun I get from debates here, is tossing-in little rubber monkey-wrenches, aimed at any unprotected funny-bones; that's not to say I ever hit one bar my own 🙂

    I like that you've broached the topic though; it's the basics we would do well to attend-to, as the saucepan heats up.

    • weka 3.1
      18 July 2021 at 10:16 pm

      "shouldn't that read, "why it is that"?"

      Good point Robert. Indeed and I would point to Lynn's long holding of the robust debate kaupapa as being a big part of it, as well as the insistence that people actually debate. Choosing not to put like/dislike buttons on comments (or posts! lol) being a smaller but important thing. The regular commenters who value the difference between opinion and fact and will argue that out.

      The question for me then is how much do we want to curate this further?

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    18 July 2021 at 2:23 pm

    Do we have a lack of purpose?

    Good question! smiley The commentariat is only here to make comments, so the site provides adequately for that common purpose. Scan the about page, you don't see a heading Purpose, so the minimalist design must be tacit.

    As regards any leftist agenda providing common purpose, I'm agnostic. Due to not being a leftist in terms of identity politics. I have, in recent years, been obliged to concede considerable common ground with leftists in terms of values & political aspirations. I'm definitely happy to acknowledge that rightist political culture has become so toxic that the prospect of constructive collaboration has largely evaporated. James did well to get some despite that trend, to his credit.

    I think the zeitgeist factor ought to be considered too. I've pointed out once or twice that the societal pendulum is swinging back toward collectivism (which I grew up in). Rebels like me jumped into individualism in the 1960s to escape the oppression of conformity to a braindead majority rule, but the pendulum swung to an excess decades later and regeneration of community is now where people ought to head. Social science research is documenting the current zeitgeist.

    "In the Axios/Momentive poll, 41% said they had a positive reaction to the word socialism and 52% had a negative one. Fifty-one percent of the youngest age groups (ages 18–34) had a positive view." https://www.forbes.com/sites/bowmanmarsico/2021/07/01/socialism-capitalism-and-candidates-updating-attitudes/

    "According to a Gallup Poll this past year, nearly 50% of millennial and Gen Z respondents held a positive view of socialism." https://www.seattletimes.com/business/this-eras-capitalism-is-driving-many-among-the-young-to-socialism/

    Yet TS is only ever likely to resonate with this trend in an ad hoc way by design, eh? I'm not suggesting a change, just addressing the topic (purpose). Advancing the common cause of leftism could be a good thing. I have no problem with the notion. My natural tendency would be to evaluate any such endeavour on the basis of design, method, process, etc…

  5. mac1 5
    18 July 2021 at 2:24 pm

    Good thoughts, Weka. I've just returned from the national Grey Power AGM where sometime reasoned debate did prevail and I learned at a personal level that two remits, that seemed to differ with each other and with GP policy, could actually complement each other. That was achieved by talking to the parties involved and seeking common ground.

    You wrote "For the left this is especially valuable as our tendency to think ‘we know everything because we’re on the side of good’ is failing to bring along many." That is very true for the criticism from the right of progressive policy often descends to the counter calls of 'nanny state', (with its subtext of "don't tell me what to do" that was very evident in the recent groundswell protest), 'political correctness', 'wokeism' and 'virtue signalling'.

    How do we counter that kind of stereotyping in order to advance debate?

    I have found with recent debates and issues that fear and other feelings often drive what is argued rather than fact-based, intellectual grounds.

    Being able to summarise the opposition's POV just might help us to understand the feelings from which they might be operating, as well as find the common ground, as I did with those GP remits.

  6. Sacha 6
    18 July 2021 at 5:21 pm

    Not everything needs to be 'debated'.

    • Shanreagh 6.1
      18 July 2021 at 7:01 pm

      I cannot summarise your view as you have not given me enough information to do so.

      What sort of topics do you see fitting in this category? Are you meaning here on TS there are things that need no debate or are not capable of debate? Or in the private sphere? I know in times of danger we do not want a big debate while a parent or a boat skipper when we are telling/asking people to do something to keep us out of danger.

      I cannot think of anything that does not have a potential for debate in the topics we discuss here.

      Statements of fact? So we have yours, mine and ours facts? Perhaps we could agree not to debate an agreed set of facts? But why would we do this…we are not a legal agency where agreed sets of facts are the aim and a way to cut to the chase.

      Debating is the life blood of communities that want to go forward.

  7. RedLogix 7
    19 July 2021 at 6:26 am

    Being able to understand someone else’s point of view empathetically, is exactly the social practice we need at this point of increasing polarisation and social break down. We need to remember that we are all human beings.

    I read your OP with very mixed feelings. On the one hand I emphatically agree with it's intellectual sentiments, they're well expressed and important.

    On the other you might want to consider how I read them from a personal historic perspective.

  8. RobbieWgtn 8
    19 July 2021 at 5:38 pm

    I'm currently reading "Good thinking" by David Robert Grimes (also known as "The Irrational Ape"). An excellent & readable history & explanation of Critical Thinking theory and practice.

    Recommended for all on both sides of the debate, especially those that wonder where we'd be without free speech.

  9. Jae 9
    20 July 2021 at 11:32 am

    The issue with this for me is that sometimes, people are not genuine in their rationale for their position. They have an ulterior motive, discernable by looking at their actions, and that needs to be called out.

    Additionally, the purpose of public discourse isn't and can't always be to inform and convince. Sometimes it is about building solidarity and letting people who have it tough know they are not alone. This purpose is, to me, often more important than trying to convince people I have fundamental disagreements with. I see it as more important because it has a greater and more real impact: people I disagree with are often in a place of comfort and want for little, and I have little chance of convincing them. The people I hope to show solidarity with however often feel alone, and seeing support makes a material difference in their lives.

    • Jae 9.1
      20 July 2021 at 11:34 am

      Having said that, the format and technique mentioned of trying to state the other person's position in a logical way, is something I do use interpersonally and see the merits of. It's just in discourse where I think we need to consider the point

      • Shanreagh 9.1.1
        20 July 2021 at 12:00 pm

        It is hard to do the summarising, which is a very good technique, when people just make bald statements such as in 6 above, sort of 'hit and run' style. I have seen that technique close down a conversation in real life very quickly and everyone stands around saying or thinking 'whaaat' ……

        To have a conversation or discourse you need input from both sides. To me it is scary when the face is turned away from putting a few points in what, in this case, is an extraordinary statement. 'Do as I say' thinkers are close to dictatorship and undemocratic if they come anywhere near the levers of power.

  10. Gosman 10
    20 July 2021 at 12:50 pm

    I think to do this requires a degree of understanding of where the other side is coming from and the left generally don't understand the right very well at all. There are many on the right that also don't understand the left (then ones who call Jacinda a Maxist or Communist)but these tend to be in the minority whereas I don't think many left wingers grasp how any rational person could support right wing ideals.

    I admit I enjoy knocking down left wing ideas and arguments and am guilty of a confrontation approach at times however often times I am trying to get the proponents of left wing ideas to think through the consequences of them or to highlight flaws in their attacks on right wing policies rather than these people just making assumptions on the validity of their own position. Ultimately most views on a topic are just as valid as others and it is how you determine success of a policy that determines whether it should be adopted.

  11. Tiger Mountain 11
    21 July 2021 at 8:42 am

    Debating in online forums is up there with all sorts of other risk taking, and some might think rather pointless behaviour really given the existential bind every last one of us humans is in.

    Whether you are into stoicism, marxism, post modernism, social democracy, the Chicago Boys, or just enjoy seeing your brilliant intellect presented in pixels on a site some one else maintains and pays for…many remain attracted to contributing.

    To paraphrase retired (from touring) Michigan rocker Bob Seger…

    “Youth and beauty are gone one day
    No matter what you dream or feel or say
    It ends in dust and disarray

    Like wind on the plains, sand through the glass
    Waves rolling in with the tide
    Dreams die hard and we watch them erode
    But we cannot be denied
    The fire inside”

    I mean who does not want to see the nasty Natz slaughtered again in 2023…

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    Lindsay Mitchell writes – Appointed by new Labour PM Jacinda Ardern in 2018, Cindy Kiro headed the Welfare Expert Advisory Group (WEAG) tasked with reviewing and recommending reforms to the welfare system. Kiro had been Children’s Commissioner during Helen Clark’s Labour government but returned to academia subsequently. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Transport Agencies don’t want Harbour Tunnels
    It seems even our transport agencies don’t want Labour’s harbour crossing plans. In August the previous government and Waka Kotahi announced their absurd preferred option the new harbour crossing that at the time was estimated to cost $35-45 billion. It included both road tunnels and a wiggly light rail tunnel ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    4 days ago

  • Webworm Presents: Jurassic Park on 35mm
    Hi,Paying Webworm members such as yourself keep this thing running, so as 2023 draws to close, I wanted to do two things to say a giant, loud “THANKS”. Firstly — I’m giving away 10 Mister Organ blu-rays in New Zealand, and another 10 in America. More details down below.Secondly — ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago

  • The Prime Minister's Dream.
    Yesterday saw the State Opening of Parliament, the Speech from the Throne, and then Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s dream for Aotearoa in his first address. But first the pomp and ceremony, the arrival of the Governor General.Dame Cindy Kiro arrived on the forecourt outside of parliament to a Māori welcome. ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • National’s new MP; the proud part-Maori boy raised in a state house
    Probably not since 1975 have we seen a government take office up against such a wall of protest and complaint. That was highlighted yesterday, the day that the new Parliament was sworn in, with news that King Tuheitia has called a national hui for late January to develop a ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago

  • Climate Adam: Battlefield Earth – How War Fuels Climate Catastrophe
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). War, conflict and climate change are tearing apart lives across the world. But these aren't separate harms - they're intricately connected. ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • They do not speak for us, and they do not speak for the future
    These dire woeful and intolerant people have been so determinedly going about their small and petulant business, it’s hard to keep up. At the end of the new government’s first woeful week, Audrey Young took the time to count off its various acts of denigration of Te Ao Māori:Review the ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Another attack on te reo
    The new white supremacist government made attacking te reo a key part of its platform, promising to rename government agencies and force them to "communicate primarily in English" (which they already do). But today they've gone further, by trying to cut the pay of public servants who speak te reo: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago

  • For the record, the Beehive buzz can now be regarded as “official”
    Buzz from the Beehive The biggest buzz we bring you from the Beehive today is that the government’s official website is up and going after being out of action for more than a week. The latest press statement came  from  Education Minister  Eric Stanford, who seized on the 2022 PISA ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago

  • Climate Change: Failed again
    There was another ETS auction this morning. and like all the other ones this year, it failed to clear - meaning that 23 million tons of carbon (15 million ordinary units plus 8 million in the cost containment reserve) went up in smoke. Or rather, they didn't. Being unsold at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell On The Government’s Assault On Maori
    This isn’t news, but the National-led coalition is mounting a sustained assault on Treaty rights and obligations. Even so, Christopher Luxon has described yesterday’s nationwide protests by Maori as “pretty unfair.” Poor thing. In the NZ Herald, Audrey Young has compiled a useful list of the many, many ways that ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    5 days ago

  • Rising costs hit farmers hard, but  there’s more  positive news  for  them this  week 
    New Zealand’s dairy industry, the mainstay of the country’s export trade, has  been under  pressure  from rising  costs. Down on the  farm, this  has  been  hitting  hard. But there  was more positive news this week,  first   from the latest Fonterra GDT auction where  prices  rose,  and  then from  a  report ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    5 days ago

  • ROB MacCULLOCH:  Newshub and NZ Herald report misleading garbage about ACT’s van Veldon not follo...
    Rob MacCulloch writes –  In their rush to discredit the new government (which our MainStream Media regard as illegitimate and having no right to enact the democratic will of voters) the NZ Herald and Newshub are arguing ACT’s Deputy Leader Brooke van Veldon is not following Treasury advice ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Top 10 for Wednesday, December 6
    Even many young people who smoke support smokefree policies, fitting in with previous research showing the large majority of people who smoke regret starting and most want to quit. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Wednesday, December ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • Eleven years of work.
    Well it didn’t take six months, but the leaks have begun. Yes the good ship Coalition has inadvertently released a confidential cabinet paper into the public domain, discussing their axing of Fair Pay Agreements (FPAs).Oops.Just when you were admiring how smoothly things were going for the new government, they’ve had ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Why we're missing out on sharply lower inflation
    A wave of new and higher fees, rates and charges will ripple out over the economy in the next 18 months as mayors, councillors, heads of department and price-setters for utilities such as gas, electricity, water and parking ramp up charges. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Just when most ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • How Did We Get Here?
    Hi,Kiwis — keep the evening of December 22nd free. I have a meetup planned, and will send out an invite over the next day or so. This sounds sort of crazy to write, but today will be Tony Stamp’s final Totally Normal column of 2023. Somehow we’ve made it to ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago

  • At a glance – Has the greenhouse effect been falsified?
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    6 days ago

  • New Zealaders  have  high expectations of  new  government:  now let’s see if it can deliver?
    The electorate has high expectations of the  new  government.  The question is: can  it  deliver?    Some  might  say  the  signs are not  promising. Protestors   are  already marching in the streets. The  new  Prime Minister has had  little experience of managing  very diverse politicians  in coalition. The economy he  ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    6 days ago

  • You won't believe some of the numbers you have to pull when you're a Finance Minister
    Nicola of Marsden:Yo, normies! We will fix your cost of living worries by giving you a tax cut of 150 dollars. 150! Cash money! Vote National.Various people who can read and count:Actually that's 150 over a fortnight. Not a week, which is how you usually express these things.And actually, it looks ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago

  • Pushback
    When this government came to power, it did so on an explicitly white supremacist platform. Undermining the Waitangi Tribunal, removing Māori representation in local government, over-riding the courts which had tried to make their foreshore and seabed legislation work, eradicating te reo from public life, and ultimately trying to repudiate ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago

  • Defence ministerial meeting meant Collins missed the Maori Party’s mischief-making capers in Parli...
    Buzz from the Beehive Maybe this is not the best time for our Minister of Defence to have gone overseas. Not when the Maori Party is inviting (or should that be inciting?) its followers to join a revolution in a post which promoted its protest plans with a picture of ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Threats of war have been followed by an invitation to join the revolution – now let’s see how th...
     A Maori Party post on Instagram invited party followers to ….  Tangata Whenua, Tangata Tiriti, Join the REVOLUTION! & make a stand!  Nationwide Action Day, All details in tiles swipe to see locations.  • This is our 1st hit out and tomorrow Tuesday the 5th is the opening ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Top 10 for Tuesday, December 4
    The RBNZ governor is citing high net migration and profit-led inflation as factors in the bank’s hawkish stance. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere on the morning of Tuesday, December 5, including:Reserve Bank Governor Adrian Orr says high net migration and ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • Nicola Willis' 'show me the money' moment
    Willis has accused labour of “economic vandalism’, while Robertson described her comments as a “desperate diversion from somebody who can't make their tax package add up”. There will now be an intense focus on December 20 to see whether her hyperbole is backed up by true surprises. Photo montage: Lynn ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • CRL costs money but also provides huge benefits
    The City Rail Link has been in the headlines a bit recently so I thought I’d look at some of them. First up, yesterday the NZ Herald ran this piece about the ongoing costs of the CRL. Auckland ratepayers will be saddled with an estimated bill of $220 million each ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    6 days ago

  • And I don't want the world to see us.
    Is this the most shambolic government in the history of New Zealand? Given that parliament hasn’t even opened they’ve managed quite a list of achievements to date.The Smokefree debacle trading lives for tax cuts, the Trumpian claims of bribery in the Media, an International award for indifference, and today the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago

  • Cooking the books
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis late yesterday stopped only slightly short of accusing her predecessor Grant Robertson of cooking the books. She complained that the Half Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU), due to be made public on December 20, would show “fiscal cliffs” that would amount to “billions of ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago

  • Most people don’t realize how much progress we’ve made on climate change
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections The year was 2015. ‘Uptown Funk’ with Bruno Mars was at the top of the music charts. Jurassic World was the most popular new movie in theaters. And decades of futility in international climate negotiations was about to come to an end in ...
    Skeptical Science
    7 days ago

  • Of Parliamentary Oaths and Clive Boonham
    As a heads-up, I am not one of those people who stay awake at night thinking about weird Culture War nonsense. At least so far as the current Maori/Constitutional arrangements go. In fact, I actually consider it the least important issue facing the day to day lives of New ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    7 days ago

  • Bearing True Allegiance?
    Strong Words: “We do not consent, we do not surrender, we do not cede, we do not submit; we, the indigenous, are rising. We do not buy into the colonial fictions this House is built upon. Te Pāti Māori pledges allegiance to our mokopuna, our whenua, and Te Tiriti o ...
    Bowalley Road
    7 days ago

  • You cannot be serious
    Some days it feels like the only thing to say is: Seriously? No, really. Seriously?OneSomeone has used their health department access to share data about vaccinations and patients, and inform the world that New Zealanders have been dying in their hundreds of thousands from the evil vaccine. This of course is pure ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago

  • A promise kept: govt pulls the plug on Lake Onslow scheme – but this saving of $16bn is denounced...
    Buzz from the Beehive After $21.8 million was spent on investigations, the plug has been pulled on the Lake Onslow pumped-hydro electricity scheme, The scheme –  that technically could have solved New Zealand’s looming energy shortage, according to its champions – was a key part of the defeated Labour government’s ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago

  • CHRIS TROTTER: The Maori Party and Oath of Allegiance
    If those elected to the Māori Seats refuse to take them, then what possible reason could the country have for retaining them?   Chris Trotter writes – Christmas is fast approaching, which, as it does every year, means gearing up for an abstruse general knowledge question. “Who was ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago

  • BRIAN EASTON:  Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies. Brian Easton writes – The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago

  • Climate Change: Fossils
    When the new government promised to allow new offshore oil and gas exploration, they were warned that there would be international criticism and reputational damage. Naturally, they arrogantly denied any possibility that that would happen. And then they finally turned up at COP, to criticism from Palau, and a "fossil ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • GEOFFREY MILLER:  NZ’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    Geoffrey Miller writes – New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 week ago

  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    1 week ago

  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago

  • Be Honest.
    Let’s begin today by thinking about job interviews.During my career in Software Development I must have interviewed hundreds of people, hired at least a hundred, but few stick in the memory.I remember one guy who was so laid back he was practically horizontal, leaning back in his chair until his ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago

  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    1 week ago

  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
    Auckland’s city rail link is the most expensive rail project in the world per km, and the CRL boss has described the cost of infrastructure construction in Aotearoa as a crisis. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The 3.5 km City Rail Link (CRL) tunnel under Auckland’s CBD has cost ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago

  • COP28 National Statement for New Zealand
    Tēnā koutou katoa Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. An island nation at the bottom of the Pacific, New Zealand is unique.          Our geography, our mountains, lakes, winds and rainfall helps set us up for the future, allowing for nearly 90 per cent of our electricity to come from renewable sources. I’m ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needs
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity
    New Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga begins
    The Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says.  “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in Dubai
    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Study shows need to remove distractions in class
    The Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.   The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Minister sets expectations of Commissioner
    Today I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETS
    New Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • PISA results show urgent need to teach the basics
    With 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids.  The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Collins leaves for Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Working for Families gets cost of living boost
    Putting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Post-Cabinet press conference
    Most weeks, following Cabinet, the Prime Minister holds a press conference for members of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. This page contains the transcripts from those press conferences, which are supplied by Hansard to the Office of the Prime Minister. It is important to note that the transcripts have not been edited ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrapped
    The Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in Gaza
    New Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Condolences on passing of Henry Kissinger
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Backing our kids to learn the basics
    Every child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through trade
    I would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber.  I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, Auckland
    Good morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States.  This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic Priority
    Good morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Coalition Government unveils 100-day plan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago

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