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Winston Peters Names Alleged Super Leaker

Written By: - Date published: 4:44 pm, July 22nd, 2020 - 87 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, act, class war, david seymour, Deep stuff, democracy under attack, election 2020, national/act government, Politics, same old national, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, winston peters, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , , , ,

In an extraordinary moment in the house, Winston Peters has named the person he says leaked his superannuation details.

The NZ First leader, using Parliamentary privilege, has claimed that former National Party press secretary Rachel Morton was the source.

Morton, on twitter, says “the claims made by Winston Peters about me today are categorically not true.”

Peters claims the breach of his privacy was an “ACT-inspired hit job”.

Rachel Morton and ACT leader David Seymour have a close relationship. This could be the basis of Winston Peters’ claim that the leaking was orchestrated by the ACT and National parties.

Peters claimed Morton heard about his details when she was present in a ministerial office when former Minister Anne Tolley told Paula Bennett.

He says “This is what dirty politics looks like.”

Peter’s belief that ACT are behind the leak probably explains the recent twitter exchange suggesting fist fighting between Peters and  David ‘the Fighting Hologram’ Seymour.

Peters’ anger may have been stoked by being ordered by the High Court to pay over $300,000 in costs after his court action over the superannuation details leak failed.

This has some clear implications for the election outcome.

Never mind Judith Collins being sniffy about working with NZ First post election.

If NZ First does make it back and Collins calls, I can’t see Winston Peters picking up the phone now, unless it’s to laugh, then hang up.

87 comments on “Winston Peters Names Alleged Super Leaker ”

  1. Sacha 1

    Rachel Morton and ACT leader David Seymour have had a close relationship.

    Ew. My regard for her just plummeted.

    • I Feel Love 1.1

      Same, yech.

    • Incognito 1.2

      Apparently, he’s a good dancer.

    • observer 1.3

      This is a good example of the kind of thing where political insiders say "oh, everyone knows about that". Not really.

      I know (obviously) who Seymour is, and (vaguely) who Morton is, but did not know about their relationship, didn't need to and don't care. No public interest, until they are asked to comment on each other – this may have happened with Morton as a reporter/commentator but I don't recall it.

      • McFlock 1.3.1

        Pretty much the same.

        • I Feel Love

          I just saw Morton on Q & A a few weeks back, she was part of Bridges team, talking about Muller. Very smooth, capable and likable. I don't remember her as a reporter. NZ really is a tiny place (I'm related to someone in the top ranks of National but not spoken to in years).

          • Nick

            Yes I saw that also and thought she was crap, gets paid to manoeuvre people to be nasty and devious.

            [Please stick to the same user name and e-mail address that you have used here before; most recent comment was 21 July 2020, thanks – Incognito]

    • Muttonbird 1.4

      You mean he had a relationship with a staffer?

      • Shanreagh 1.4.1

        Shock horror, imbalance of power…..

        • McFlock

          An ACT MP is in a supervisory role of a National party staffer?

          If anything, maybe the other way around, in which case you might have a point…

          • Muttonbird

            An ACT MP is in a supervisory role of a National party staffer?

            Is this the case? If so, it's an almost identical situation to ILG's dalliance.

            I'm guessing Rimmer will not be firing himself!

            • McFlock

              Obviously it's not true. So there's not an imbalance of power in that regard, so no, it's not like ILG.

              • Muttonbird

                Is there really not an imbalance of power though? I'm sure David Seymour was treated like royalty in National Party corridors.

                • McFlock

                  royalty or pet?

                  And Morton seems to have a decent CV under her belt, not someone fresh out of school.

                  I suspect the only real problem is that which faces every workplace personal relationship there – it's easy to throw the allegation of improper information sharing because of the mere existence of that relationship. Winston's allegation being a case in point (I suspect winston believes it, but it's also a handy dead cat).

                  But I don't see any clear danger of misconduct in the relationship itself. Nothing in the "you're fecking joking, how could that not strike him as a terrible idea" territory of e.g. ILG

    • Grantoc 1.5

      Really. You believe Peter's!!??

  2. Anne 2

    I said at the start of the year this would be one of the dirtiest campaigns ever but hell…….

    surprise frown

  3. Speaking to reporters outside the House, Seymour said Peters was simply repeating "sleazy, baseless innuendo saying things that never happened" in the House.

    "I categorically deny involvement in that leak – I had nothing to do with it."

    He said that Morton did not give him information and he did not pass on any information, as alleged by Peters in the House.

    "The reason this accusation is being made is we're in a personal relationship – he's abusing that fact and I think that's a new low for New Zealand politics."

    Seymour said Peters is struggling in the polls and is "finished and is now trying to drag other people down with him".

    "Winston Peters is a desperate man making it up and in this case, telling lies."

    He said he didn't know anything about Peters superannuation payments until they hit headlines.


    • McFlock 3.1

      He said he didn't know anything about Peters superannuation payments until they hit headlines.

      lol must have been one of the few people Tolley didn't tell…

  4. Climaction 4

    Can name whoever he wants under parliamentary privilege, true or nor

    coward. Never got his shorts or hair dirty on the wing playing rugby

    • I Feel Love 4.1

      always looked good though, always had style, always had amazing hair.

    • bwaghorn 4.2

      He did the first kick off to a team I was in at a new ground way back . Never stayed on the field long enough to see any action (he would have been about 40 then) which we all thought was probably wise , but cowardly.

    • Grafton Gully 4.3

      "Never got his shorts or hair dirty on the wing playing rugby" ?

      "Desperately trying to halt Winston Peters' bid for the line is Sam Rollerston. Peters managed to slip the tackle and score a try."


      • Climaction 4.3.1

        did he? or did he stand on the other side of the road behind the fenced off carpark with a hand painted sign?

        He's a coward

        if his accusations carried any truth at all he wouldn't hide behind parliamentary privilege.

        pop quiz, name three senior (cabinet or higher at some point) politicians since mmp began who have alleged conspiracy under privilege that have had those allegations substantiated.

        be surprised if you can name one

      • RedBaronCV 4.3.2

        That! was a blast from the past. And a Cherrington too . Northland had an entire Senior A rugby team all but one with the name Cherrington.

  5. Just Is 5

    I just watched Seymour's speil in Parliament, having a go at Peters who had already left, he made some quite serious allegations, the speaker, Mallard ordered Seymour to withdraw the comments and apologize, Seymour refused and was subsequently ordered out of the house.

    Once sitting for the day was complete, he allowed Seymour back into the house on the proviso he withdraw the comments and apologize, which he duly did.

    Seymour accused Peters of lying about the relationship with Nationals Rachel Morton over the leaked Super overpayments.

  6. mary_a 6

    Winston Peters is getting some final desperate shots in before he loses the election. I sincerely hope Shane Jones doesn't win the Northland seat for NZF. I've had a gutsful of Peters, his lying deceptive BS and everything else he stands for.

    • Rosemary McDonald 6.1

      I've had a gutsful of Peters, his lying deceptive BS and everything else he stands for.

      He's not even funny anymore. A bit sad and pathetic. He needs to take a leaf from the dearly departed Todd and have a nice cup of tea and a lie down. Or go fishing.

      This is just ott. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12350106

    • Peter 6.2

      Do you dislike lying deceptive BS from any MP or just from Peters?

      • Rosemary McDonald 6.2.1

        Personally I think all politicians have a tendency to deception and bullshit. Anyone who believes otherwise is risking bitter disappointment. Peters is particularly irritating because of his holier- than -the -rest- of -the -mob attitude. The Super overpayment thing…he should have just put up and shut up. You'd think if a person was going to make a career out of drawing attention to the shenanigans of others they'd make doubly sure to keep their own affairs squeaky clean.

        I'm over the lot of 'em to be honest.

      • mary_a 6.2.2

        I'm beginning to think BS, deception and lying is a must for a politician!

        However, as far as Peters is concerned, he is becoming boring and pathetic with his he knows this, that and the other, but with the exception in this instance, he doesn't reveal anything! He's a clown and needs to retire.

    • Grafton Gully 6.3

      He took on the Richwhite. Fay and Key cabal – remember ???


      • Climaction 6.3.1

        13 years ago for more allegations under privilege?

        taken them on isn't the same as being right.

        any degenerate can throw around accusations under parliamentary privlege

        • Marcus Morris

          The "Wine boxes" were produced back in the early nineties. 13 years ago???

  7. Zuszsa 7

    It was an extraordinary exchange. Peters was all over the place. He named Morton and Seymour and Chris Bishops father (!!) as being behind it all. Bishop and Seymour denied it all with fiery speeches. It was so bad Poto Williams felt the need to abandon her planned speech and instead talk about the need for dignity in parliament.

    It certainly took everyone's mind off IL-G.

  8. Gabby 8

    No Antarctica trip for Samantha, I rickn.

  9. Peter 9

    It's messy, it's awful, it's disgusting, it's a stain on the way things are done here. Right, that's dealt with the fact that Peters' information got past a minion in the MSD.

    It's messy, it's awful, it's disgusting, it's a stain on the way things are done in Parliament. Right, that's dealt with the fact that Peters' information got to a minion in the MSD went through that Ministry and ended up getting to a number of his opponents in Parliament.

    It's messy, it's awful, it's disgusting, it's a stain on the way things are done in Parliament and New Zealand. Right, that's dealt with the fact that Peters' information got to a minion in the MSD, ended up getting to a number of his opponents in Parliament and miraculously ended up plastered all over the news.

    It's messy, it's awful, it's disgusting, it's a stain on the way things are done in Parliament and New Zealand. Right, that's dealt with the fact that Peters' information ended up plastered all over the news shortly before the election.

    It's messy, it's awful, it's disgusting, it's a stain on the way things are done in Parliament. It’s what you get when Peters attacks after being wronged.

    • lprent 9.1

      Good summary. Since we don’t know who leaked Winston Peters paying back an superannuation over payment (something that happens quite a lot) to the press and probably will never be certain, I have no objection to a splatter movie across the whole of the political spectrum and public service.

      It was a total egregious breach of private information. Whoever did it deserves time in a prison. The next best thing is to make sure that the entirety of the public service and political classes find blood all over their shocked faces.. It will discourage more arseholes playing dirty politics 2.0.

      • Shanreagh 9.1.1

        I agree with you – especially the last para. My hope is that it will shake loose something.

        Leaking personal information about anybody is terrible, leaking deeply personal financial info that included info about a person not in politics ie family is shameful,

        doing it for dirty political gain is something else again.

        Hopefully someone will come clean.

      • Anne 9.1.2

        @ Peter, lprent &Shanreagh

        yes yes yes

        I’ve been there and know the horrendous damage it can do – damage that can go on for years.

      • Peter 9.1.3

        The problem lies with whoever released the information.

        The other problem is with the 'no surprises' policy. That 'requires departments to inform Ministers promptly of matters of significance within their portfolio responsibilities, particularly where these matters may be controversial or may become the subject of public debate.'

        Any matter to do with any MP could be deemed to be 'controversial or may become the subject of public debate.'

        Examples: An MP is paying child support for a child and no-one except those directly involved knows about it. Scandal! Controversy, public debate. IRD should inform the Minister.

        An MP in the quiet of the night gets a speeding ticket or DIC charge. Controversy, public debate. Police should inform the Minister regardless of suppression orders or before they could be granted.

        An MP or spouse has has some sort of financial transaction with a particular company. Knowledge of that, would be likely to see controversy and debate. IRD would inform the Minister.

        All the information to be got to only those who need to know of course. It'll would be safe there. The problem for Peters trying to prove who leaked the information was that 'only those who needed to know' seems to have included so many. Was the information read out at a 'junior staffers' party?

        I can't be bothered going back and checking, but I'm sure Maarten Wevers, Sir, ("in 2018, he resigned as chairman and from the board of the Earthquake Commission, having lost the confidence of the minister responsible") who was a witness in the Peters' case didn't say that the case showed that the 'no surprises' policy did not work and will not work when there are malevolent opportunists.

        As I said, in our political climate anything any MP does is likely to end up, or could be turned into controversy or become the subject of public debate.

        Those named today obviously have Peters to blame for their names being involved. Should they blame the clerk and the manager in an Auckland office for promoting the situation? Those who actually constructed the no surprises rule? The parliamentarians who got the confidential information?

        Imagine the shitstorm from the likes of David Farrar and Jordan Williams if their confidential information was broadcast far and wide, it'd be Big Brother this Big Brother that. Those named today are all incensed about Peters mentioning them.

        Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Suck it up. It's most likely what they expected of Peters.

        (I've got no truck with Peters or his party. He probably perpetrated some scummery today. There are far wider implications than just him though.)

        • lprent

          The other problem is with the ‘no surprises’ policy. That ‘requires departments to inform Ministers promptly of matters of significance within their portfolio responsibilities, particularly where these matters may be controversial or may become the subject of public debate.’

          I’d agree. And that is exactly what I mean when I say it is inappropriate. I can’t see anything political that couldn’t be shoved under the ‘no surprises’ label as a catch-all politically. It was exactly what Paula Bennett used (a no surprises justification) when she used private information held in her ministerial responsibility to attack critics of the government policy back in 2010 (?).

          Fortunately as several legal people have pointed out recently – that is just a matter of changing the cabinet manual to get rid of this obnoxious intrusion into state held private information. It isn’t a legal stipulation – it is a just a convenience for ministers. Just adding a proviso that anything that would be subject to a privacy breach with the public servant and the minister being held directly accountable would be sufficient.

          (I’ve got no truck with Peters or his party. He probably perpetrated some scummery today. There are far wider implications than just him though.)

          Yep – that is my view as well. The issue is important.
          I also think that he used a privileged channel that was actually designed for exactly how he used it.

          • Shanreagh

            I also think that he used a privileged channel that was actually designed for exactly how he used it.

            The reason that the info got to then Minister was a total misuse/misunderstanding of how/why the 'No surprises/heads-up' policy should have been used. There was, in my view, no reason at all for MSD to have included anything about this info about an MP's, or any other named private individual's/family's private financial matters.

            • lprent

              I was referring to Peter’s use of parliamentary privilege.

              • Shanreagh

                Yes I understand that. I totally agree that he used the correct channel for exactly the type of disclosure he has now made.

                Thought I had said this but not apparently, sorry!

                Just my view that had the info not got to the then MSD minister it would never have been leaked from there, I think this is what they are saying. My view is that MSD may have given the Minister this as part of a misapplication of the heads-up/no surprises policy.

      • Rosemary McDonald 9.1.4

        superannuation over payment (something that happens quite a lot)


        Perhaps some folk don't take the whole form filling thing seriously?


        • Shanreagh

          I take form filling very seriously. MSD still managed to use a crossed out tax code on my form instead of the new one that was initialled by me and circled and initialled by the MSD staff member who interviewed me.

          It was not until IRD contacted me several months later to point out I was owing quite a large Student loan repayment that I realised this. I immediately contacted MSD with another tax code declaration and paid back the owing, thankfully I was still working and had a bit of $$$$ to enable me to do this. Wouldn't have been able to now.

          MSD do not send any sort of pay advice out. You have to take it on trust that they have got it right. Bad move really to do be trusting like this, and anyone who has any sort of complicated Tax/MSD link-up should be very careful.

          Since that mistake of MSD's I ring to ask for the split and then double-check the maths myself.

          I bet Winston and his partner do as as well!

        • lprent

          I can't point to a source offhand. Rushing off to work. But it is somewhere in here…


          My opinion was based on reading an auditor-general report several years ago looking at the under and over payments for various beneficiary groups. Including super. As I remember it with super, the probability was higher than I expected – mostly due to changes in circumstances.

          But generally across all benefits, the most common reason appeared to be various kinds of misunderstandings about forms. Closely followed by misunderstandings by staff on valid entitlements or by taking default actions – as appeared to be the case with Peters (a unticked question does not warrant processing the application at all (it should also be yes/no)).

          My conclusion at the time was that as far as possible it should be done with onscreen forms that force active fill in on all relevant fields, and with hypertext on all options. Remove people out of the system as mach as possible and get them to focus on people who are functionally illiterate (ie can't use computers) and for phone queries.

  10. ScottGN 10

    A double dead cat bounce day.

  11. RosieLee 11

    I think Winston has lost the plot.

  12. Chris T 12

    I have never seen Winston so shitting himself and desperate for anything to save himself before.

    Guess the two weirdos from the UK didn't give as much help as promised.

    • Muttonbird 12.1

      There's not many who will be upset to see the back of Winston Peters. Judgement day for him and his band of centrist hand-brakes is nigh.

      I enjoy watching him duke it out with Rimmer though.

  13. Shanreagh 13

    Well someone did leak the details and I have no doubt that the establishment has come together to hide what they can. This shot across the bows may dig out the other offender/s and stop the ridiculous not me, not me, not me …..it did not just float out into the ether.

    In my experience, unless checked, some departmental and agency heads will routinely share this kind of stuff with their Ministers without any caveats/care as a strange 'heads-up'.

    Both ministers I worked for said that they looked after the 'political' stuff, that was their job and did not want to receive it from their seconded or career advisers or their departmental or agency heads.

    Different if the department had a genuine mea culpa ie departmental stuff-up and wanted to share it in a careful and considered way with the Minister to ask for guidance or pave the way to a conciliatory approach with a colleague MP.

    • Anne 13.1

      Well someone did leak the details and I have no doubt that the establishment has come together to hide what they can.

      That is exactly what happens and who cares a damn about the innocent victim. For this reason I have some sympathy for Peters. It was vicious and unwarranted and hurt his partner as much as himself.

      Which could be why he is determined to get to the bottom of it.

      • Rosemary McDonald 13.1.1

        It was vicious and unwarranted and hurt his partner as much as himself.

        Considering they both supposedly went to the WINZ office and filled out the his form together back in 2010 and still got it 'orriby wrong….and they clearly have way too much moolah sloshing around if they didn't notice an extra 18k in the bank. I have no sympathy whatsoever.


        • Shanreagh

          and they clearly have way too much moolah

          Surely not the politics of envy rearing its ugly head?

      • Tiger Mountain 13.1.2

        I agree, pity Winston’s legal team were not more on to the forensic side of it to be able to furnish proof.

  14. observer 14

    The poll results are in:

    1%: Winston, you tell him! Got my vote.

    1%: David, you tell him! Got my vote.

    98%: roll eyes.

    People talk about a Nat-NZF deal. But to get to 61, it would (bar a miracle) have to be a Nat-ACT-NZF deal. Imagine that working.

    A Lab-Green majority just got a day closer.

  15. Shanreagh 15

    Was she in a relationship with Seymour when she was working in Bennett's office?

    In 2017 Seymour said she's the one. (see intro)
    Presumably you don’t say that if you have only seen them across a crowded room…..its lurve etc.

  16. Dot 17

    I do not vote for Winston Peters but I defend his right to deal with dirty politics.
    The case motive _ which parties would benefit from releasing this personal information just before an election ?
    Which party has a record of dirty politics ? remember John Key.
    Which party leader is relentless in his attempts to increase the importance of his
    minor party David Seymour.

  17. RedBaronCV 18

    I've got a lot of sympathy for Winston – his personal details were leaked – for what may be political reasons. There have been earlier beat ups about Winston, the donations that were not a scandal at 2008. Ever since the wine box stuff he seems to have had these problems.

    Much like some one without second thought leaked the covid names. Somebody somewhere needs to pay a decent price for leaking individual detail (where there is no whistle blower aspect) or it will continue.

    And there was another blog article about bills of that size mean we have an unaffordable justice system.

    And although I've never voted for Winston I can see that he has spent his adult life in the service of his fellow citizens as an MP and a Minister ( and a good foreign one).

    When the hopefully distant day comes who will have the bigger funeral? Winston, Judith, Brash – no brainer really.

  18. Ian 19

    Calving is about a week early and dairy farmers are working hard. A true hard and early.

  19. Muttonbird 20

    Farrar watch:

    David has done a paywalled post on the differences in shagging staffers. It all depends on which party that staffer belongs to, you see.

    David has realised how vulnerable David Seymour is right now so he's trying to have the line drawn in order to save ACT.

    • Peter 20.1

      How vulnerable David Seymour is right now? How do you mean? Surely in recent weeks he would've been counting how many Actmates he'd have in the House with him.

      • Muttonbird 20.1.1

        Vulnerable on having relationships with staffers.

        That is the crux of the problem with ILG isn't it? That it was the power imbalance and the working relationship which was the problem, not the infidelity itself.

        If that is the problem then Seymour also had a relationship with a staffer. It so happens that staffer was a National Party staffer and Divid Farrar is at extreme pains to point that out.

  20. Brian Tregaskin 21


    Farrar watch:

    David has done a paywalled post on the differences in shagging staffers. It all depends on which party that staffer belongs to, you see.

    David has realised how vulnerable David Seymour is right now so he's trying to have the line drawn in order to save ACT."

    How vulnerable David Seymour is right now? How do you mean? Surely in recent weeks he would've been counting how many Actmates he'd have in the House with him."

    Careful people this thread is heading into defamation territory

    • Muttonbird 21.1

      I wasn't aware that Seymour's relationship with Rachel Morton was in dispute.

    • Peter 21.2

      My question was genuine. I am naive about 'water cooler stuff.' Some of the references I've just read are foreign to me.

      In recent weeks Act would undoubtedly have gained from the shambles in National. Seymour will be rolling along counting how many cobbers he could have.

  21. Brian Tregaskin 22

    Facebooks most watched video of the day in NZ!
    Winston Peters reveals who leaked his superannuation details

  22. sumsuch 23

    God, I hate the surface waves of politics. Symptoms to be analysed, like 'our' doctors and chemists do. And forces we can all see, and feel.

  23. Hanswurst 24

    Is it beyond the realms of reason that Peters was actually using this issue to draw attention to Seymour's relationship with Morton, as a way of drawing attention to any apparent similarities to Iain Lees-Galloway? After all, conservative-minded voters casting about for someone other than National to vote for will (rightly or wrongly) probably consider both Act and NZ First, so they are both actually partly in bitter competition for the same constituency, despite their obvious differences.

  24. rrm 25

    Winston Peters claimed NZ Super at a better rate than he was entitled to for YEARS.

    But somehow the revelation of this is the REAL wrong here, and it's "Dirty Politics" and he is actually the victim in all of this.

    [Monday is Troll Day on TS. See you on Monday then – Incognito]

    • dv 25.1

      From Wikipedia

      In late August 2017, Peters admitted being overpaid in superannuation for seven years while living with his longtime partner Jan Trotman. The overpayment occurred because the relationship status box on his application form was left blank. Peters stated that he and the Ministry agreed that there had been a payment error but said he had paid the money back – amounting to nearly $18,000. Peters paid interest and penalties on the overpayment.[138]

      The overpayment was subsequently leaked to the media. Peters described it as a private matter and expressed outrage that it had been leaked.

      • Shanreagh 25.1.1

        The overpayment was subsequently leaked to the media. Peters described it as a private matter and expressed outrage that it had been leaked.

        It most surely is a private matter. IRD & MSD have much information about private individuals, we rely on their ethics/morals/adherence to legislation, regs and guidelines not to let this info get into the public arena.

        I am not sure of the exact obligations that a Minister has under thier warrant from the Governor General but surely would not be less than they expect of their public servants.

        • dv

          It most surely is a private matter

          Agree absolutely

          The form filing was careless, especially as Pteres and his partner went into winz

    • Incognito 25.2

      See my Moderation note @ 8:33 AM.

  25. novacastrian 26

    Perhaps it's high time parliamentary privilege is outlawed entirely.

    What Peter's has done is no different to what Mallard has done in reality. Both have used, and in my view misused parliamentary privilege, the difference being Mallard has stiffed the taxpayer $80k plus in legal fees thus far.

    • Shanreagh 26.1

      Disagree totally.

      Important in constitutional terms.

      Are you happy to have your dealings with say the IRD or MSD shared across the media? Especially by people who have vowed to work for the good of all NZers?

      If you are you may have a point.

      Otherwise nooooo……..

  26. Hanswurst 27

    Had Peters' version of events already alleged by anybody else? I ask because the title of the post seems to suggest that Peters is naming someone who is the subject of an existing allegation, whereas all that I have been able to see is Peters making allegations himself.

    • Peters has said many times he knew who the leaker was, Hanswurst. He has now named them.

      • Tiger Mountain 27.1.1

        Pity then, that Winston’s legal team could not join the dots and trace people’s whereabouts and interactions to bloody prove it!

        • te reo putake

          Yep! You’d think an experienced lawyer like Winston would have got his ducks in a row before proceeding. Or done the parliamentary privilege expose before going to court and seeing what came of it.

          • Shanreagh

            Or done the parliamentary privilege expose before going to court and seeing what came of it.

            I think it is entirely because Winston is a lawyer that he left this very public naming without recourse, to the last and tried the usual legal channels first. It happened to him remember.

            Hopefully it will shake something loose, you know like consciences etc though perhaps that is a an unrealistic hope. No-one deserves to have their or their family's personal private financial interactions leaked to the media.

  27. karol121 28

    He (Winnie) is enlightening, if not just a little tedious from time to time.

    And here's me suspecting that it may have been some wild thing with a wilder gruff, set loose to roam Yom Kippur.

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