Before the massacre the State was warned

27 comments on “Before the massacre the State was warned ”

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1. Sanctuary 1

   10 March 2020 at 8:49 am

   Yes, I heard the NatRad insight documentary on this. It is a shocking scandal of institutional racism, bureaucratic complacency and incompetence, and an official intelligence mindset obsessed with childishly playing soldiers with our five eye allies rather than growing up and actually doing it's job.

   Time will tell if our institutions have reformed themselves after their disgraceful failure.
   • OnceWasTim 1.1

     10 March 2020 at 12:21 pm

     "Time will tell if our institutions have reformed themselves after their disgraceful failure"

     Unfortunately, there's no reason to believe they will without a little coaxing.

     Repeating what I said on that 'far-left bloody radical blog' (TDB) the other day (/sarc):

     "It's a testament to the way our bureaucracy has evolved. Politicians in this government don't come out unscathed either.

     Arrogant at times; definitely "we know best"; control freakery; deaf, and what's worse, when confronted by any sort of criticism, and immediate response to just double down. It begins in the senior ranks, and strangely enough, it's about one of the few things that actually trickles down.

     And unfortunately, that doubling down is trickling upwards in some cases to Ministerial level."
     —-

     And if and where there have been a few improvements, it's only because those in the senior ranks in our public service have been embarrassed into doing so, or even where the judiciary have had to point out muppetry (such as with tiny houses on wheels, fully registered and with a warrant of fitness – the list is endless)
     • OnceWasTim 1.1.1

       10 March 2020 at 12:58 pm

       Btw – see also lprent's comments on the Police. They're not limited to the Police, and elsewhere they can be worse when you get a cabal of ex-cops spreading out into other sectors of the ps. (Sometimes they even have to be 'managed out' of the place when they become too indiscreet).

       They seem to have a knack of being able to fool a few politicians that are probably too 'nice' for their own good at times too
2. Grumpy 2

   10 March 2020 at 9:27 am

   An Australian nutter murdering New Zealand Muslims after researching potential sites around the world chose Christchurch to show the world that nowhere was safe? And some Muslim women predicted this?

   There are numerous red flags that should have warned authorities about this scum such as his travel history and especially when he applied for and was given a firearms licence by incompetent police, then allowed to buy huge quantities of ammunition but to suggest this was predicted, much less authorities warned, stretches credibility.
   • Sanctuary 2.1

     10 March 2020 at 10:21 am

     Intelligence consists of aggregating a whole lot of disparate information, much of it noise, and relying on experienced analysts to build an objective picture of what – and what is not – relevant, and then report that up the chain. The ChCh shooter left footprints. The problem isn't that no one was able to predict where those footprints would lead. the problem is/was that no one was looking at the far right threat at all, and no one up the chain took any one else's warnings about the far right threat seriously either.

     An epic all round intelligence failure occurred – of emphasis, analysis, and assessment. That needs to be fixed. Less time needs to be spent spying on the phone records of those who embarrass the state like Nicky Hagar and more time spent doing actual work like rooting out far right would-be terrorists.
     • Anne 2.1.1

       10 March 2020 at 11:12 am

       Less time needs to be spent spying on the phone records of those who embarrass the state like Nicky Hagar and more time spent doing actual work like rooting out far right would-be terrorists.

       It will be happening now but what a cost to pay.

       A group of some three people I once knew were allowed to get clean away with a series of political and social acts of sabotage in this country a few decades ago, all of which were unlawful and some still get mentioned in the media today. By virtue of a particular circumstance, I came to discover what was going on but the 'powers that be' would not listen to me. Those individuals, using today's terminology, would be regarded as members of the Far Right.

       The mindset of the political and state establishments in the West over many decades could be expressed in simple terms: Right good, Left bad. End of story. Well almost.
       • Anne 2.1.1.1

         10 March 2020 at 11:26 am

         Oh and by the way… those individuals were members of the Labour Party until the late 1980s and early 1990s.
       • OnceWasTim 2.1.1.2

         10 March 2020 at 12:34 pm

         I agree with what you say @Anne – it's been going on for years to a degree however it's now far, far worse than it ever was. Not sure why – perhaps that sense of entitlement. Whatever it is – the push back against making any progress; crappy prioritising of what are inevitably limited resources; arrogance, condescension and Master of the Universe attitude – it'll eventually bring down this government even if only because Ministers end up having to take responsibility for it all.

         But then after a lifetime of Labour, I've given up (probably Greens this year).

         There'll be a lot of cudda shudda wuddas if it all turns to shit later this year
     • Grumpy 2.1.2

       10 March 2020 at 3:44 pm

       There is a lot of doubt that the Christchurch shooter was "far right". One of his "heroes" was Mao. His political bent was towards "racial purity" but that is not the sole preserve of the "right".

       However, his manifesto is suppressed so I guess arguing about his motives is off the table for a while.
       • RedLogix 2.1.2.1

         11 March 2020 at 11:59 am

         Well it is only suppressed in NZ. But you are right, the limited information we do have on him does not really align with all of the claims being made about him.
3. gsays 3

   10 March 2020 at 1:12 pm

   Good post, thanks Advantage.

   What you have described is othering and it is all through our society.

   From happily dismissing folk who follow a religion because sky fairy, not being 'right on' enough for a left leaning blog site through to the gender politics and supporting a sport franchise.

   To add insult to injury we get Grumpy up thread, having their credibility stretched because they don't believe the authorities were told. I have heard a few enterviews on RNZ with women who were reporting disturbing examples of hatred and racism.

   Look for the good in others and they will see the good in you. There is a song in that.

   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=94uOii7hZU4
   • Grumpy 3.1

     10 March 2020 at 3:55 pm

     Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that these women were aware of the threat of the Australian shooter……..other home grown threats perhaps but not towards the eventual perpetrator as the post seems to suggest.
     • gsays 3.1.1

       10 March 2020 at 7:52 pm

       Not enough room for both of us on the head yr pin.
     • Anne 3.1.2

       10 March 2020 at 8:22 pm

       Of course they didn't know how it would play out and who was going to be responsible. They just knew from their own experiences – and those of others they heard about – that a sinister anti-Muslim movement was building on social media and one day someone or some people were going to do something pretty terrible.

       And one of the reasons why they were not listened to was because they were women. It is a sad reality that if a case involves persons of both sex then it is far more likely authority (in its broadest sense) will believe the male. I can attest to that from personal experience.
4. Paul G. Buchanan 4

   10 March 2020 at 2:05 pm

   Correction: The March 15 atrocity was not "possibly" the worse terrorist attack on a religion in the Southern Hemisphere in over a century. The 1994 attack on the Jewish Community Centre (AIMA) in Buenos Aires killed 85 and injured hundreds. If one includes the 2013 al-Shabaab attack on the Westgate Mall in Nairobi, Kenya (71 dead, 200+ wounded) as a terrorist attack against non-believers, then it too is objectively worse. It may seem pedantic but it my world analytic precision is valued.

   Otherwise, the outage about NZ govt inaction in the face of repeated complaints from the IWC is justified. The question is whether anything significant will be done in light of March 15 and exposure of the govt's deafness to the legitimate security concerns of a minority community.
   • Ad 4.1

     10 March 2020 at 2:18 pm

     Correction appreciated.
5. Antonina 5

   10 March 2020 at 7:07 pm

   thanks adv- we need to be heedful
6. peterlepaysan 6

   10 March 2020 at 8:01 pm

   AD you really are a national troll and quite disgusting.

   "Prime Minister wearing a ahead scarf" (get it right , halfwit!), was a cheap and unnecessary shot.

   Time you grew up and stopped being a swaggering playground bully.
   • Anne 6.1

     10 March 2020 at 8:32 pm

     Agree peterlepaysan.

     Ad's last sentence was uncalled for and wrong – and nasty. She's done way more than 'wear a scarf' (hijab is the correct word) – more than most of us know about.
   • Hanswurst 6.2

     11 March 2020 at 11:48 pm

     Quite. The fixation on the religious angle seems unjustifiably selective, too, when race and sex are also clearly identifiable elements in the mix – and that's already assuming that the risk or urgency assessments had their basis in prejudice in the first place.
7. g 7

   10 March 2020 at 8:49 pm

   Any white supremacist that ignores Israel in a so called manifesto is well, questionable. Are we entering a new era where a white supremacist is upset but more or less fails to mention the State of Israel and Jews overall, yet kills 50+ Muslims? Uncomfortable question but gotta ask.. Please put me right.
   • Grumpy 7.1

     11 March 2020 at 11:11 am

     Wow! Where did that come from?
8. mat simpson 8

   11 March 2020 at 11:39 am

   " The way our media narration has closed over it in just a year, and moved on to worrying about getting a heavy ‘flu, or political donations, or the Rugby season’s dramas, shows how New Zealand society prefers to re-seal the lid on religion and consign it to obedient silence "

   Well put Advantage that pretty much sums up the ineptitude of the fourth estate these days.

   Once they have squeezed the last amounts profit from sensationalising the story they move on too the next profit making headline never interested in the real story and victims who were involved.

   They are faceless victims with foreign names whose lives and religion are not mainstream or fit the corporate marketing exercise of 100% pure clean and green corruption free state in the South Pacific.
9. Adam Ash 9

   12 March 2020 at 12:24 pm

   It is such a shame that the ladies concerns did not translate to even a token guardian of the doors of their places of worship. The briefest warning could have helped many. If the threat was so tangible, and the anticipated outcome so horrible (as it turned out to be) – one can only grieve – while wondering why they left their guard down.
10. John 10

    16 March 2020 at 4:09 pm

    There is a good chance that this was a false flag event, staged to achieve the dual aims of introducing draconian firearms legislation and suppressing free speech.

    In any case it is achieving the desired goals. Firearms have been confiscated from the law abiding. Firearms legislation is before parliament. Censorship has been implemented. Hate speech laws are planned.

    Even if this was an individual act of mass murder, NZ police and politicians have been hoping and praying for decades for a mass murder to happen in NZ so as to provide the excuse needed to disarm the populace as a prelude to totalitarian nirvana. The plans have been in place for over twenty years, as NZ police wished to implement Australia's National firearms agreement, as NZ law.

    The Australian NFA came about as a result of the mass murders in Tasmania. A proven false flag event, where the innocent patsy was an IH named Martin Bryant.

    [I have been approving your increasingly inane drivels but I draw the line at “… NZ police and politicians have been hoping and praying for decades for a mass murder to happen in NZ so as to provide the excuse needed to disarm the populace as a prelude to totalitarian nirvana.” This is your one and only warning to keep this kind of BS out of your comments here on this site.

    BTW, this is the second time I’ve changed your user name to the one you used here before as we don’t like commenters to change their usernames (and e-mail addresses) at random – Incognito]
    • Incognito 10.1

      16 March 2020 at 4:27 pm

      See my Moderation note @ 4:09 PM.
      • John 10.1.1

        16 March 2020 at 4:38 pm

        We have a different understanding of inane drivel, but I have obviously upset you by venturing a considered opinion. In the future I will merely present documented fact.

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