Coincidence?

90 comments on “Coincidence? ”

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1. Carol 1

   30 July 2012 at 9:59 am

   And, yet, the main opposition parties are also vying to foreground men as party leaders…. part of the focus on “balancing the economy”, something that is largely seen as men’s business.

   Russel Norman? David Shearer? Leaders that will attract women voters, and manage those policies seen as pretty crucial women in the above article on the new Fairfax poll? Really?
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     30 July 2012 at 10:58 am

     Women have no issue voting for male dominated parties. National’s top ten Ministers after winning 2008 were 80% male. 8 men, 2 women in their top 10. The highest ranked women sat at a lowly no. 7 (Judith Collins).

     In fact, now I look at it, National had just three women in their top fifteen.

     Which must be a recipe for success since National / John Key remained very popular with women voters.
     • Carol 1.1.1

       30 July 2012 at 11:05 am

       Sadly, CV, this does seem to be true.
     • weka 1.1.2

       30 July 2012 at 4:45 pm

       The only way to know why women vote the way they do is to ask them. Has anyone done any decent research on this in NZ?
        
       I vote Green partly because of their commitment to gender equity in leadership and list placement.
     • Matthew Whitehead 1.1.3

       1 August 2012 at 7:11 pm

       You are making a large assumption there that women wouldn’t have more enthusiastically supported a party that they found more representative of them, and do so above the level of diminished enthusiasm among National’s more sexist base.
       • Colonial Viper 1.1.3.1

         1 August 2012 at 7:19 pm

         Sure, but I’m not talking about what may have hypothetically happened, I’m talking about what did actually happen.

         Which is that National won two elections, each with considerable help from female voters, despite having far more men in senior positions than women.

         I have a simple thesis: most voters don’t give two hoots about how demographically representative a political party is of them; it’s irrelevant to them. Other factors such as attitude, ideology, vision and ability are far more important.
2. Craig Glen Eden 2

   30 July 2012 at 10:13 am

   Yeah Carol I was really disappointed a number of Labour Woman MPs didnt see the value of having Nania as deputy leader I really thought Nania would make a big difference to the party and make Labour more relevant for woman. Personally I was shocked at how many negative responses we got from young woman while sign waving at the last election.
3. prism 3

   30 July 2012 at 10:48 am

   I hope that more women will be able to see behind John Key’s glamour and look for the person that NZ needs. When they realise that there isn’t anything like that inside there then we might get that stepchange needed for somebody better. And let’s get that somebody ready for the challenge.

   As I said yesterday the news is that for Olympic reporting from London for the NZ print media there are 17 male sports journalists and no women. So women have to be smart to get beyond that sort of self-interest and cloistered jobs for the boys.

   Just a thought too. Women won’t ever be able to use their smarts unless they learn how to be assertive, knowing how and when to be articulate and clear in their reasoned opinions. And women have often tended to be kind as well as thoughtful, but then some are judgmental and classist, so the thinking woman needs to avoid this in her assertiveness. And assertiveness is far different as an intellectual activity from aggression. And emotionalism is not a satisfactory substitute for reasoned thought. And then far too many women stay on the passive-aggressive stage. This means that they try and manipulate for their advantage without openly declaring their thinking.
   • Craig Glen Eden 3.1

     30 July 2012 at 10:51 am

     Agree prism I worked for Ten years with woman as my leaders and they were in many many cases far better than blokes in the same or similar roles not all but mostly in my view.
     • prism 3.1.1

       30 July 2012 at 11:17 am

       Craig Glen Eden
       The same. But the odd female psychopath (they say there are a lot of these in management, mostly males) I think would be hell.
4. Richard Christie 4

   30 July 2012 at 11:33 am

   More sexual politics.
   I thought we’d moved past the 1980s.
   • Carol 4.1

     30 July 2012 at 11:36 am

     It would have been really great if we had moved positively beyond the 1980s.
     But, sadly, politics and many other areas of life are still male-dominated and masculine-defined.
   • rosy 4.2

     31 July 2012 at 12:26 am

     So, what came first – improvements in education for girls of improvements in IQ’s of women? An what does the answer (whatever it may be) say about the importance of ‘sexual politics’ and IQ as an accurate measure of intelligence, rather than exposure to good learning environments and expreiences?
     • Colonial Viper 4.2.1

       31 July 2012 at 12:30 am

       I don’t know about some other fields. But the girls in dentistry, medical and law school are absolutely kicking the ass of the lads also studying there. No joke. Changes to the high school system has screwed the scrum against the guys, from what I can tell.
       • rosy 4.2.1.1

         31 July 2012 at 12:52 am

         As a parent of both genders (and an aunt to lots of secondary school and post-secondary school boys and girls) I can’t see that the high school system was screwed against boys. The boys did take longer to get to grips with having to produce work throughout the year, and work that wasn’t just their own opinion, but once they did, it was good as. Not that it matters if girls do better – the boys still move ahead faster in the workplace 😉

         I guess there will be plenty of research out there about this, but I’m not sure what is best to look at.
5. Craig Glen Eden 5

   30 July 2012 at 11:42 am

   Sexual politics??? what ever that is?? Nah I think its just recognizing and appreciating that most things can be better with a womans impute in many levels of society and some make excellent leaders and managers and many do it better than some men.
   • muzza 5.1

     30 July 2012 at 1:29 pm

     Most people lack the basic skills required to run a bath, let alone lead other people, regardless of what gender they might be.

     The corporate environment seems to foster the promotion of the personalities which best suits it purpose, why is this, the reasons are simple in my opinion.

     Why is it that the most capable people seem to be overlooked in many cases, and those with the traits best served far away from management, seem to occupy these positions.
6. ropata 6

   30 July 2012 at 12:29 pm

   The prevalence of Antisocial personality disorder [aka. sociopaths] is 3% in males and 1% from females, as stated in the DSM IV-TR.

   more women in charge ==> fewer sociopathic policies
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     31 July 2012 at 12:18 am

     Nah that’s an improper conclusion because these people tend to be small self selecting populations.
7. BillODrees 7

   30 July 2012 at 2:53 pm

   I think women are great. I wish all around me were women. 
8. captain hook 8

   30 July 2012 at 3:20 pm

   Yeah.
   I like em too.
   smart and big.
9. bad12 9

   30 July 2012 at 3:28 pm

   Wimmin tho, when released from the shackles of previous societal bondage have in my opinion an alarming disposition to behave just like men, that observation applies whether i view such behavior from within the top echelons of society or the bottom….
   • Carol 9.1

     30 July 2012 at 4:03 pm

     Some do, some don’t, bad. But the problem is that, even when more avenues open up to women, it is often in a culture where traditional masculine values dominate. So for women to succeed in that environment it is necessary to adopt those values , or to adopt a mix of conventional masculine and feminine values (Helen Clark, Maggie Thatcher with her deep voice and handbag), so that they go some way towards neutralising the threat to masculine hegemony while also seeming to be “strong”.

     The more extreme adoption of masculine values in parliament, is especially seen with some NAct MPs, like Collins, who delights in brandishing a bit of phallic imagery (laser gun) in order to show her ability to match it with the NAct guys in toughness.

     It’s not seen so much with other women MPs (e.g. Ardern, Sue Moroney, several women Green MPs, or some NZF women MPs…. and with some male MPs that are also not into ultra macho behaviour: e.g. Gareth Hughes comes to mind).

     Consequently it’s not just about the balance of the sexes actively involved, but the kind of values they espouse.
   • weka 9.2

     30 July 2012 at 4:55 pm

     Wimmin tho, when released from the shackles of previous societal bondage have in my opinion an alarming disposition to behave just like men, that observation applies whether i view such behavior from within the top echelons of society or the bottom….
      

     Rebound effect. Plus wimmin aren’t really released from bondage are they? They’re given some freedoms on men’s terms (or patriarchy’s terms actually), which determines alot of behaviour.

      
     Wimmin are just people b12, they’re good and bad, and susceptible to socialisation like everyone else. Much of the problem with Parliament is like Carol says, culture. Parliament is a boys club still, and the behaviour that happens there is unbelievable. I wouldn’t put up with it, and most women I know wouldn’t either, so it says something that it is tolerated. It’s no secret that many women who have succeeded there have had to be or become hard arses even just to survive (other simply choose to leave). Hardly conducive to other values and ways of working that would come about if the culture was egalitarian rather than macho.
      
     We should let the kuia run NZ for a while, then we’d see how ridiculous what we do now is.
10. Johnm 10

    30 July 2012 at 4:34 pm

    They have to be smarter: Biologically they have to keep the species going by selecting the best mates and procreating. Then they nurture the offspring ’till entry into society:The most important job in Society, and they get such little recognition for it!
11. Mark 11

    30 July 2012 at 5:27 pm

    So, last time I checked in here it was to see that women/children are disadvantaged because our system makes it harder for mums to stay at home and look after children.
    Now they’re disadvantaged because they are not given the top jobs?
    If you want to see the worst case of sexual discrimination in NZ, look at the Family Court and Child Support.
    And as I recall recently a female Nat Cabinet Minister was told to “go home and look after your children” by the Opposition (Labour?)
    I know as many women in Senior Exec roles as men.
    It made me laugh and cringe this morning listening to the CEO of the Maori Language Commission referring many times to Norm Hewitt as a great “Human Being” instead of as man.. what does that say about PC gender neutral bullshit?
    Just saying.. (:
    • McFlock 11.1

      30 July 2012 at 6:07 pm

       Where you claim labour told a national cabinet minister to “go home and look after your children” –  links or it didn’t happen. 
           
      The only google hit for that phrase in NZ was a book extract set in the period of Constantinople.
           
      Your recollection might be imaginary. 
      • Mark 11.1.1

        30 July 2012 at 6:18 pm

        “links or it didn’t happen” .. interesting comment, especially in view of the outlandish assertions made here. But I’ll have a look, and when I find it no doubt you will acknowledge it humbly.
        No response to the rest of the post?
        • McFlock 11.1.1.1

          30 July 2012 at 6:32 pm

          Generally people like to provide supporting evidence for their more outlandish comments – I would have thought that a comment like that would have blazed a comet-trail across internet search engines, coming from parliamentarians in this day and age. But not a peep. 
                    
          The rest of your comment didn’t even provide enough specific details to count as an assertion, with the exception of morning report. Apparently it’s pc madness to call Hewitt a human being? I really don’t see why it’s such an issue, but no matter.
                 
      • Mark 11.1.2

        30 July 2012 at 6:29 pm

        http://www.listener.co.nz/columnists/the-week-in-politics-elephants-childless-mps-and-banksed-cheques/
        Now I know The Listener isn’t Hansard, and I don’t have time to search the whole WWW, but..

        “Labour MPs have interjected on National mums, including Katherine Rich, to the effect of “Why aren’t you home looking after your kids?” National frequently dog-whistled Helen Clark’s elective childlessness. Opposition MPs slated John Key for taking his kids on overseas holidays. It would be difficult to keep count of the under-stress MPs who have been greeted with “Take your pills!” and “How was Hanmer?” from opponents of either stripe. Both sides are roughly as sinning as they are sinned against.”
        • Colonial Viper 11.1.2.1

          30 July 2012 at 6:57 pm

          Maggie Barry enjoyed a bit of middle class misogynist dishing out good on her for showing her true colours as one of our betters.

          -edit-

          That Listener piece was written by Jane Clifton. As in Murray McCully’s former long time partner, Jane Clifton.
        • McFlock 11.1.2.2

          30 July 2012 at 7:04 pm

          Ok – looking for that phrase google came up with a few WO and KB posts claiming labour said words to that effect in 2003 (a quick hansard search? Or just on file for damage control like this?). And all Hansard have is a parting shot from Judith Collins accusing Judith Tizard of it.
                   
          Nothing in the news – even 9 or 10 years ago one would have expected  some moral outrage from tories. Shame on Tizard if she said it, and shame on labour for not censuring her if she said it.
                   
          Apparently after Collins’ comment “debate was interrupted”, so it was obviously a parting shot. Far be it for me to accuse her of making shit up at this stage.
                 
          After all – “Labour did it too, once, ten years ago” sounds pretty weak as it is. It sure doesn’t count as “recently”. Although it’s probably worse coming from a minister to an opposition MP than the other way around.
          • Carol 11.1.2.2.1

            30 July 2012 at 7:08 pm

            McFlock, do such interjections get included in Hansard?

            Also, I would want to know the context before passing judgent. What was Rich talking about when that interjection was made? e.g. she could have been pontificating on women who neglect their children to go out to work.
            • Te Reo Putake 11.1.2.2.1.1

              30 July 2012 at 7:15 pm

              No, they don’t, Carol.
               
              The ‘quote’ that confused Mark was actually Jane Clifton’s opinion, not a real comment, despite the quotation marks Clifton wrongly put around the words. And it seems to be a precis of comments sourced from the ever reasonable Maggie Barry anyway. So entirely credibility free.
              • McFlock …

                30 July 2012 at 7:23 pm

                And fed to Whaleoil. 
                     
                Basically, Collins’ 2003 comment makes me stop short of “you’re outright making shit up”, but the lack of contemporary reports suggests that maybe she was making shit up, or twisting comments. And of course going around the tory echo chamber it was twisted just enough to make it sound recent, and just enough to make it difficult to find.
                           
                Shame. The Listener used to check its facts, once upon a time. 
              • felix …

                30 July 2012 at 8:04 pm

                Pretty sure I’ve seen interjections in the Hansard. Not all of them of course.
    • Te Reo Putake 11.2

      30 July 2012 at 6:28 pm

      Allow me, Mark.
       
      “So, last time I checked in here it was to see that women/children are disadvantaged because our system makes it harder for mums to stay at home and look after children.
      Now they’re disadvantaged because they are not given the top jobs?”
       
      These are not mutually exclusive concepts. Some women want to be full time mums, some want to be CEO’s.
       
      “If you want to see the worst case of sexual discrimination in NZ, look at the Family Court and Child Support.”
       
      Yeah, no.
       
      “I know as many women in Senior Exec roles as men.”
       
      Well, you clearly don’t have many contacts in the business world. Even the EMA and the NZX are asking that companies work harder to ensure better representation for women at leadership level.
       
      “It made me laugh and cringe this morning listening to the CEO of the Maori Language Commission referring many times to Norm Hewitt as a great “Human Being” instead of as man.. what does that say about PC gender neutral bullshit?”
       
      What does that say? It says you’re a neanderthal, Mark. Shouldn’t you be have a whinge on talkback radio instead of wasting your time here?
       
       
       
       
      • Mark 11.2.1

        30 July 2012 at 6:36 pm

        Fuck off bully boy The Redneck Penis-smoker..
        You’ve been called in have you, can’t have dissenting view here.
        What a fucking joke of haters and losers this place is.
        • Te Reo Putake 11.2.1.1

          30 July 2012 at 6:41 pm

          So I take it we won’t have the dubious benefit of your company any more? From Mark to no mark in record time!
           
          • mike e 11.2.1.1.1

            30 July 2012 at 6:55 pm

            E tu Brutus mark my words.
            Mark you will be amongst the finest company on KB.
            11,1,2 as Tau Henare says Harden up
        • Colonial Viper 11.2.1.2

          30 July 2012 at 6:54 pm

          You’ve been called in have you, can’t have dissenting view here.

          Spouting shit like you do and then respectably classifying it as a “dissenting view” is going to be as successful as polishing a dog turd.
12. Mark 12

    30 July 2012 at 7:06 pm

    Haha, yeah, well I guess I’ll go and file GST returns, PAYE as well, you know, pay tax, contribute rather than being a hater and wrecker.
    While I’m at it I’ll look after my children, you know, not kill them, keep them warm and healthy, fed. Or I could waste my money on pokies and booze, then blame someone else.
    May as well not clog up the courts and prisons too…
    Shit, could get all radical and save a bit of power, grow some veggies,..
    But you people don’t like that, it’s personal responsibility, and takes a bit more effort than spouting oppression and racism.
    While I’m at it I’ll buy some MOM shares, although I don’t need the extra health and education facilities the proceeds will bring for NZ, I’ll do my bit some more, for the kids you people are letting down.
    • Draco T Bastard 12.1

      30 July 2012 at 7:17 pm

      While I’m at it I’ll buy some MOM shares, although I don’t need the extra health and education facilities the proceeds will bring for NZ,

      It won’t bring any, in fact, over time the sales of state assets will shut down even more as the dead weight loss of profit bites.
      • Mark 12.1.1

        30 July 2012 at 7:38 pm

        “It won’t bring any, in fact, over time the sales of state assets will shut down even more as the dead weight loss of profit bites”

        Got a link to that, or evidence?
        It may do if you traitors drive the price down.
        Dividends to the Sttae can only go up if power prices go up.. is that good?
        Or shall we spend millions paying Maori for borrowing their water briefly.. power prices go up?
        Or if (and that’s a big if) power prices go up under MOM, dividends to the State, Kiwisaver funds, NZ Superfund and Iwi, local investors go up.. no?
        If power prices go up, does that not make other renewables more attractive/sustainable?
        So what is your issue again?
        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1

          30 July 2012 at 7:46 pm

          It may do if you traitors drive the price down.

          Yeah we’re traitors to the Bankster Class. And it feels damn fine.
          • Mark 12.1.1.1.1

            30 July 2012 at 8:00 pm

            Yeah, the Bankster Class.. is that the same banksters that now give us:

            Fee free banking, and the ability to do it all from wherever you want, via text, app, internet?
            The lowest mortgage rates for years?
            The highest proportion of female executives and managers in almost any industry in NZ?
            The best working conditions (sick, compassionate etc leave)
            Massive sponsorship of community services?
            Green buildings?

            Yeah, fucking hate them, they make profits.
            Try again CV, hopeless arguments all round.
            • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.1.1.1

              30 July 2012 at 9:14 pm

              The fee free banking that only came about after it was introduced by our new state bank?
              Lowest mortgage rates pushed by the banks so that they could boost their profit while impoverishing NZ (yeah, that’s where all that overseas borrowing came from).
              That third question doesn’t make sense – you seem to be trying to compare NZ with NZ.
              Working conditions that were put in place by the unions and have been cut over the last 20 years after National destroyed the unions.
              If we didn’t have such dead weight loss of profit the community wouldn’t need sponsorship from the thieves.
              Green Buildings? hahahahaha, the business community is responsible for the leaky buildings, not green buildings. In fact, business has been in the way of green buildings for as long as I can remember. Whinging about it costing too much to build them.
            • mike e 12.1.1.1.1.2

              30 July 2012 at 9:27 pm

              Yes mark you’ve nearly calmed down enough to have conversation.
              If not for Jim Anderton this nice friendly banking cartel would be gouging even more.
              ie getting bonuses for loading people with debt.Causing the property bubble which has suited them as they can make more money for less work creating poverty and telling national and labour what to do or their finances will disappear.
              The cigarette companies and alcohol and gambling sectors do their community pr spin as well.
              use their huge financial power to create a need that if we don’t play the game to their rules they will take away.
            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1.3

              30 July 2012 at 9:29 pm

              Yeah, fucking hate them, they make profits.

              They ship over a billion dollars a year in dead loss profits offshore, made off the backs of you and me, taken out of local communities, for doing nothing that we as a country could not do for ourselves.

              Try again CV, hopeless arguments all round.

              🙄
        • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.2

          30 July 2012 at 9:07 pm

          Got a link to that, or evidence?

          It’s the basic logic of percentage returns. As money accumulates in the hands of the few they buy up more of the communities wealth increasing the speed of accumulation. The end result is inevitable – all the wealth in the hands of a few and everyone else in dire poverty at which point you get either bloody revolution and/or collapse. The only thing that has prevented this from happening before now is the socialist policies that have, to some degree, prevented over accumulation. Of course, those socialist policies were dumped thirty years ago and now we have over accumulation happening and the global economy collapsing.

          The sale of state assets is just another move by the capitalist class to take ownership of the communities wealth.
    • mike e 12.2

      30 July 2012 at 7:19 pm

      Bitterness Mark I though only the poor were aloud to do that.
      Take some personal responsibility and deal with it,Stop sulking.
      The only reason the jails aren’t overflowing! is because white collar criminal comrades of yours don’t get prosecuted
      like you expect poor people to buy shares they used to own,
      Feed their families when the rent is to high while the National govt subsidizes landlords
      • Mark 12.2.1

        30 July 2012 at 7:28 pm

        Gotta say mike e, you’re a pretty good example of our useless leftie teachers not doing their job very well, or is that my fault too?
        I’m not bitter about anything, I just expect everyone to do what they can, and not oppress the poor by telling them they have no power to alleviate their situation.
        • Colonial Viper 12.2.1.1

          30 July 2012 at 7:32 pm

          I’m not bitter about anything, I just expect everyone to do what they can, and not oppress the poor by telling them they have no power to alleviate their situation.

          Except that’s what you’re deathly afraid of.

          The poor have every power to alleviate their situation. And we’re going to teach them how.
          • Mark 12.2.1.1.1

            30 July 2012 at 7:48 pm

            “The poor have every power to alleviate their situation. And we’re going to teach them how”

            Excellent CV, you’ve seen the light.
            How about showing them how they can reduce electricity bills by 10% or more with little effort?
            How about showing them that Weetbix and milk for breakfast costs 60 cents per day per kid?
            How about teaching them that if they spend 1/2 an hour helping with homework their kids have a greater chance of a job in the future?
            How about teaching them about condoms?
            How about telling them that responsible mining will allow them to make some good bucks?
            How about some financial advice?
            How about giving them some direction and hope?
            How about you go to Greece, or Italy, and see how you get on?
            • Colonial Viper 12.2.1.1.1.1

              30 July 2012 at 7:56 pm

              Hey Mark, we’re gonna be teaching the next generation how to take possession of this country and its wealth as its guardians and as its stewards.

              Hang on for the ride bro.
              • mike e …

                30 July 2012 at 8:10 pm

                Sons of anarchy under Marks model
                CV
              • Mark …

                30 July 2012 at 8:48 pm

                Much as I agree that we could and should be more independent here, especially in energy and food, your great plan didn’t work historically in places like USSR & China, where the population knew they had to provide for themselves, and were used to and good at working hard to do that.
                Here there is no hope.. the left have removed the ability of the poor to look after themselves, the productive will leave, anarchy & starvation will prevail and you will be responsible for destroying a great country.. all in the name of discredited ideology. Luckily the intelligent and the hard working will not allow this to happen.
                Luckily for you and your misguided ilk, we will probably allow your head to remain attached to your shoulders, and will even continue to pay you to breathe & spout dangerous & treasonous crap.. therein lies the difference between the benevolent right and the nasty left.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  30 July 2012 at 9:01 pm

                  your great plan didn’t work historically in places like USSR & China,

                  Uh, neither the USSR nor China have ever asked for my input on their political economic planning.

                  Luckily for you and your misguided ilk, we will probably allow your head to remain attached to your shoulders

                  What is that sound coming from along the stony road? For that is the sound of tumbrils clattering, the sight of once fine rags, and the dusty cries of shattered dreams.
                  • Jenny …

                    30 July 2012 at 10:08 pm

                    What is that sound coming from along the stony road? For that is the sound of tumbrils clattering, the sight of once fine rags, and the dusty cries of shattered dreams.

                    Colonial Viper</

                    Ah yes CV, the much awaited, and long heralded, Glorious Proletarian Revolution.

                    While you cheer the dictator of Syria attempting to drown a real revolution in blood?

                    Grow up!

                    Unfortunately you won't have time to indulge your childish role playing fantasy of leading the working class to revolution, before the biosphere is removed.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      30 July 2012 at 10:17 pm

                      Unfortunately you won’t have time to indulge your childish role playing fantasy of leading the working class to revolution, before the biosphere is removed.

                      You haven’t conceptualised the fact that there will be no working class revolution in NZ. There are multiple reasons, but a weakness in numbers, resourcing and organisation, and a lack of political involvement and education, are primary amongst them. Change will have to come in other ways.
                • Draco T Bastard …

                  30 July 2012 at 9:22 pm

                  Here there is no hope.. the left have removed the ability of the poor to look after themselves,

                  It’s not the left that have done that but the right. Enclosing and privatising the commons removes peoples access to the resources they need to look after themselves making them dependent upon the capitalist class. All the dependency and poverty is a direct result of RW policies and it’s the results that they actually want.
                • mike e …

                  30 July 2012 at 9:38 pm

                  mark your model has already been tried
                  Don’t cry for me Argentina its no better than totalitarian communism in fact almost identical.
                  You must be the latest tag team troll on the block.
                  Your behaviour and bitterness blinds you to neo liberal cultism show us some evidence of countries where it is working if you want to change any bodies mind around her you will have to put up better evidence than just couple of redneck jerkisms
              • Jenny …

                30 July 2012 at 9:48 pm

                Hey Mark, we’re gonna be teaching the next generation how to take possession of this country and its wealth as its guardians and as its stewards.

                Colonial Viper

                This could be problematic CV, as you’re an ignorant misanthropic racist, who wouldn’t recognise a popular revolution if you saw one unfolding.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  30 July 2012 at 10:11 pm

                  Just to be sure, are you talking about the Syrian popular revolution, Jenny. The one which is relying on several thousand imported foreign Arab and Islamic fighters?

                  Hey this is an interesting news piece about what is behind the Syrian “popular” uprising that you back:

                  “It’s the Turks who are militarily controlling it. Turkey is the main co-ordinator/facilitator. Think of a triangle, with Turkey at the top and Saudi Arabia and Qatar at the bottom,” said a Doha-based source.

                  “The Americans are very hands-off on this. U.S. intel(ligence) are working through middlemen. Middlemen are controlling access to weapons and routes.”

                  http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/27/us-syria-crisis-centre-idUSBRE86Q0JM20120727

                  Shit Jenny, are you sure you’re not the pro-war activist “who wouldn’t recognise a popular revolution if you saw one unfolding.”
                  • mike e …

                    30 July 2012 at 10:25 pm

                    I don’t want to be russin to anybodies defence but but I think a few oligarchs are making plenty out of this conflict.
                    • Draco T Bastard …

                      30 July 2012 at 10:52 pm

                      War has always been a profitable exercise for a few.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      30 July 2012 at 11:08 pm

                      You guys are going to get me into trouble with Jenny. To be clear, this is not a war, or even a conflict, it is a “popular uprising” by “freedom fighters” and not associated in any way with money, resources or wider geopolitical interests.
                  • Jenny …

                    30 July 2012 at 11:11 pm

                    So what of all your big talk of leading the people to take possession of this country, and tumbrils, earlier in this thread?

                    Hey Mark, we’re gonna be teaching the next generation how to take possession of this country and its wealth as its guardians and as its stewards.

                    Hang on for the ride bro.

                    And:

                    What is that sound coming from along the stony road? For that is the sound of tumbrils clattering, the sight of once fine rags, and the dusty cries of shattered dreams.

                    What, now you are discounting this talk?

                    ….there will be no working class revolution in NZ. There are multiple reasons, but a weakness in numbers, resourcing and organisation, and a lack of political involvement and education, are primary amongst them. Change will have to come in other ways.

                    Then I am not far off the mark in suggesting that you are just just childishly indulging in vainglorious fantasy. As far removed from the real world as your usually vapid utterances on Syria, or on Climate Change. And who is this “we’ you’re are talking about? Another fantasy of yours?

                    As to who is “the pro-war activist”?

                    Over several threads and several days I have asked you numerous times whether or not you support Assad’s threatened use of gas weapons against the FSA. Every time you have refused to answer the question. Instead ignorantly and racistly tried to discredit the Syrian Revolution as a Euro-driven foreign plot, the Arab people in your opinion being too dumb and cowardly to overthrow the mostly Western backed dictators oppressing them on their own initiative.

                    So I will ask you again. And let the readers decide who is the war monger and racist.

                    CV do you, or do you not, support the use of deadly gas against the FSA?
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      30 July 2012 at 11:31 pm

                      CV do you, or do you not, support the use of deadly gas against the FSA?

                      To be clear, does what you call the “FSA” include the thousands, perhaps up to 20,000, foreign fighters who have invaded Syria, and who are funded and armed by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey? All of whom have strong military and financial ties to the USA?

                      Then I am not far off the mark in suggesting that you are just just childishly indulging in vainglorious fantasy. As far removed from the real world as your usually vapid utterances on Syria, or on Climate Change. And who is this “we’ you’re are talking about? Another fantasy of yours?

                      Vainglorious, that is an awesome word. I’m going to store that one up for later use, thanks. Doesn’t change the fact that you are wrong on climate change, and that energy depletion is the number one threat to our civilisation.

                      And who is this “we’ you’re are talking about? Another fantasy of yours?

                      I work with a great team of people, politically. Wouldn’t have it any other way.
            • mike e 12.2.1.1.1.2

              30 July 2012 at 8:08 pm

              Slow down Mark you’ll have a stroke with all that pent up bitterness.
              I study economics as a hobby .
              One of the main reasons NZ has done so well in recessions is the economy is kept afloat is more rich people are made to pay their fair share of Tax.
              And our Welfare system keeps the Economy afloat during recessions look at Argentina 97-98 when following ACT policy their economy collapsed.
              Italy is run on corruption especially at the highest level where the rich pay bugger all tax so allow the tax responsible Germany to bail out Italian and Greek billionaires!
              And as CV pointed out we have bailed them out to the tune of $320 million already and we are on the line for $4.1 billion.
              The Greeks and Italians like us are amongst the hardest workers in the world.
          • Jenny 12.2.1.1.2

            30 July 2012 at 9:34 pm

            The poor have every power to alleviate their situation.

            Colonial Viper

            Except in Syria of course, eh CV.
            • Colonial Viper 12.2.1.1.2.1

              30 July 2012 at 10:12 pm

              I have a comment in moderation replying to your 9:48pm, which will appear in due course.
              • Jenny …

                30 July 2012 at 10:20 pm

                If it is your usual misanthropic rant against people you term “middle class”. Or your racist dismissal of the Arab Spring. Or your usual brilliant apologist arguments for continuing with climate change. We may be waiting some time.
        • mike e 12.2.1.2

          30 July 2012 at 7:54 pm

          So what are the teachers suppose to use their own money to feed the children like many do.
          I know of schools that feed their children breakfast and lunch.The results are quiet dramatic.
          For $360 million per year we could get rid of child poverty a $ 6 billion a year drag on the economy.
          An organization I belong to is trying to get cloths shoes and food to every under privileged child in the country.
          We will never be able to do what the govt can but we are not trying to blame teachers(NZ 4th in the world in education only 1 in 7 Children failing not 1 in 4 like Shonkey pairanah say.)
          What are you doing complaining thats big of you.
          Our family pays huge taxes I don’t complain its the price of living in a democracy’
          I’ve been self employed most of my life and its not easy at times. But when I found a more profitable business it made it a lot easier.
          Now I’m back to being an employee its a little easier but not a lot because I take responsibility seriously.
          Just like I want to make NZ a better place for all not just a few.
          Is that your example Mark.
          • Mark 12.2.1.2.1

            30 July 2012 at 8:29 pm

            “So what are the teachers suppose to use their own money to feed the children like many do.
            I know of schools that feed their children breakfast and lunch.The results are quiet dramatic”

            so let’s analyse some real situations, of real people, and look at their budgets.
            • Colonial Viper 12.2.1.2.1.1

              30 July 2012 at 8:34 pm

              You’re not interested in people Mark, you’re interested in maintaining control.
              • Jenny …

                30 July 2012 at 11:30 pm

                Speak for your self.

                “Within 10 years shortages* of liquid fuels are going to cause significant problems for normal operation of the globalised economy. Within 20 years it will be an emergency situation.”

                Colonial Viper
                • Colonial Viper …

                  30 July 2012 at 11:35 pm

                  Energy depletion is a far more serious threat to our civilisation than climate change. More severe, sooner, with only a few years to prepare now.
                  • Jenny …

                    31 July 2012 at 12:01 am

                    Energy depletion is a far more serious threat to our civilisation than climate change. More severe, sooner, with only a few years to prepare now.

                    Colonial Viper

                    This is an absolutely absurd rejection of reality.

                    “….. the extraction practice involves dirty and very expensive technology, and even if the fall off in such fields tends to be steep, the size of the North America fields alone seems likely to be a game changer for the next couple of decades, at least. And these happen to be the crucial decades, if runaway climate change isn’t to become a reality.”

                    Has the idea of Peak Oil… Peaked? And if so, does the planet stand a chance?

                    Gordon Campbell

                    http://werewolf.co.nz/2012/06/has-the-peak-oil-idea-peaked/

                    CV, with your support for facism in Syria and your support for continued climate change, condemning future humanity to a ravished earth. Whether you realise it or not you have seriously damaged your brand, and it will be hard to take you seriously on any other topic.

                    You say you have a great team around you, I’ll take your word for that. But do any of them know what you say as an anonymous blogger?

                    If they did, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are not looking a bit sideways at you at the moment.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      31 July 2012 at 12:10 am

                      You keep chasing your climate change objectives Jenny.

                      Just know that economic collapse facilitated by energy depletion and peak debt is going to do all the hard lifting for you.

                      Just one example: in the USA the number of passenger vehicles per driver has been falling for years. Peak new car sales in the USA was in 2000, with over 17M new cars sold. They have never exceeded that number since. In fact, this year, new car sales will come in at least 3M less, due to the economic decline.

                      You say you have a great team around you, I’ll take your word for that. But do any of them know what you say as an anonymous blogger?

                      If they did, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are not looking a bit sideways at you at the moment.

                      Of course they know, since “Colonial Viper” is not a pseudonym, its my real name. 😈
          • Mark 12.2.1.2.2

            30 July 2012 at 8:33 pm

            “I’ve been self employed most of my life and its not easy at times. But when I found a more profitable business it made it a lot easier.
            Now I’m back to being an employee its a little easier but not a lot because I take responsibility seriously.”

            Oh, self employed, not easy?.. I thought being self employed was just being a capitalist scum.. learnt that here.
            Employee.. a little easier, take responsibility.. I agree, I have been employee, employer, contractor.. you get out what you put in.
            • Colonial Viper 12.2.1.2.2.1

              30 July 2012 at 8:36 pm

              Don’t forget the corporate ticket clipping and rentier extraction that SME owners have to suffer at every step.

              And as communities get poorer, so do your customers. And that is the biggest impact on the bottom line.
              • mike e …

                30 July 2012 at 9:47 pm

                +1
                • mike e …

                  30 July 2012 at 9:50 pm

                  HSBC in yet another banking scandal looks like borrowing bills English is going to have to borrow more money off another bank to bail out the other bank
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    30 July 2012 at 9:58 pm

                    Notice how repeated banking and finance scandals each concerning hundreds of millions or many billions of USD suggest that financial fraud in the industry is not just incidental, it is a way of life.
                    • Draco T Bastard …

                      30 July 2012 at 10:54 pm

                      Fraud in banking has been a way of life for centuries. Adam Smith remarked upon it and I really haven’t seen any evidence to suggest things have changed.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      30 July 2012 at 11:06 pm

                      Yeah can’t really dispute that. Issuing more certificates for gold than actual gold in the vault an example dating back a few hundred years.
13. jellytussle 13

    30 July 2012 at 9:58 pm

    So I watched the clips of the great Chch plan on 3 news and inside all I could see were loads and loads of balding heads…..virtually no women at all. When the cameras went outside to the protesters suddenly there were lots of women commenting. It was a shame that Campbell didn’t pick up on it. The old boys network is well and truly alive.
    • Carol 13.1

      31 July 2012 at 3:47 pm

      Yes, jt. I have been thinking the name for Gerry’s plan of Christchurch should be Boystown. Rugby stadium etc. Little for families and children in the planned spaces, and all that glass seems functional, but not designed for it’s sense of community, spiritual well-being and humanity.
14. the pink postman 14

    31 July 2012 at 3:33 pm

    My wife has been telling me this for 58 years ,So perhaps the reason she has been at my side for so long is proof that she is prettt smart,. Lookng over my shoulder she has just said its because she loves me , so perhaps smart women also love.

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