Daily review 28/07/2020

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, July 28th, 2020 - 57 comments
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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

57 comments on “Daily review 28/07/2020 ”

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  1. Muttonbird 1
    28 July 2020 at 5:44 pm

    I'm worried about Henry Cooke. I hope he's getting counselling after that pointed, personal attack this morning.

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    28 July 2020 at 5:46 pm

    Judith Collins says, "she was joking" when she accepted the leadership of the National Party.

  3. Incognito 3
    28 July 2020 at 5:48 pm

    Why has the National Party’s internal polling not been leaked released yet? What good is it to share it with the caucus but not with the voters if it were indeed much more positive numbers for National? How many eyebrows did the Leader raise when she made that claim?

    • Muttonbird 4.1
      28 July 2020 at 5:57 pm

      If that's true it's all on, I suppose.

      Labour formed the government in 2017 having achieved 36.89%, Nats 44.45%, NZF+ACT 7.70% and Greens 6.27%.

      If Peters is in a similar position he will definitely go with the Nats this time.

      • Sacha 4.1.1
        28 July 2020 at 6:37 pm

        If the gap between Lab and Nat is anything like 10-15% then Winnie has no leverage this time even if he does scrape back over 5%.

      • ScottGN 4.1.2
        28 July 2020 at 7:45 pm

        Nats don’t have anywhere near the extra 13 points that the Greens and NZFirst combined supplied to Labour last time around though. They’ve just got ACTs 3 %. So 39% ain’t gonna cut it.

        • Muttonbird 4.1.2.1
          28 July 2020 at 7:54 pm

          There's this awful last week voting trend to NZF to 'keep a handbrake on'.

          Hoping the trend this time is not enough and Peters retires semi-gracefully.

    • swordfish 4.2
      28 July 2020 at 6:03 pm

      Nats were on 34% in previous leaked Curia (late June while Muller was still Leader).

      Be intersting to know the fieldwork dates for latest leak.

      • Muttonbird 4.2.1
        28 July 2020 at 6:08 pm

        So even by Farrar's reckoning they've only lifted 2% under Collins.

        Pathetic.

        Long shot here but I think Farrar’s own notoriety might skew his results because people who have heard of him and his company will answer knowing what he and his company represent when phoned.

    • Pat 4.3
      28 July 2020 at 6:09 pm

      Lol…you know things are bad when you leak a 15 point deficit to the media and promote it as a positive

      • swordfish 4.3.1
        28 July 2020 at 6:13 pm

        .
        Yep.

        Also RNZ has just reported that David Farrar presented the Caucus with two sets of figures taken over different time periods.

        So, are we getting the latest set ? or the pre-Falloon / ILG figures ?

        • Pat 4.3.1.1
          28 July 2020 at 6:16 pm

          ah who would know…but it dosnt signal a positive outcome for National regardless.

          Who'd be a spin doctor

    • observer 4.4
      28 July 2020 at 6:25 pm

      This may be the first time in MMP history that a party has responded to a bad poll by releasing their own numbers and insisting that their opponents can govern alone.

      • Sacha 4.4.1
        28 July 2020 at 6:38 pm

        Shows who they are really afraid of.

      • ScottGN 4.4.2
        28 July 2020 at 7:35 pm

        Yeah. They’ve been so spooked by the Newshub poll they’ve released their own polling which shows them losing badly anyway. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

    • Janet 5.1
      28 July 2020 at 7:05 pm

      Everyone arriving in New Zealand should at least be charged the normal daily cost of living in New Zealand because if they were not in quarantine they would be meeting these costs any way. The tax payer should not be paying the ordinary daily living cost value of the quarantine two weeks for these people returning home to New Zealand.

      • Pat 5.1.1
        28 July 2020 at 7:15 pm

        Two questions…

        what is the 'normal' daily living cost?

        What purpose is served by such a regime?

        • Janet 5.1.1.1
          28 July 2020 at 8:26 pm

          Why should anyone get a scot-free 2 weeks on the NZ tax-payer just because they came home.

          • Pat 5.1.1.1.1
            28 July 2020 at 8:38 pm

            thats a strange attitude to take….they havnt chosen to be in isolation, they are required to be in isolation, the element of choice has been removed.

            and you havnt answered either question

            • Janet 5.1.1.1.1.1
              28 July 2020 at 10:39 pm

              I guess the unemplyment benefit ivalue s an idication of our weekly " cost of living "

              The choice was made before flying home and 2 weeks in .isolation is not a big deal

              • Pat …
                28 July 2020 at 10:47 pm

                so a charge of $500 for the two weeks of isolation?

                the choice to fly home may be Hobsons.

        • PaddyOT 5.1.1.2
          28 July 2020 at 8:28 pm

          Because Pat if they were not in quarantine, living totally free at taxpayers expense, they would otherwise have to pay for costs of rent, mortgage power, food etc. from day of arrival.

          Various sites give out daily costs of living in NZ. Currently returnees are saving money for two weeks. Eg. https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/new-zealand which is updated reguarly
          Or work out your own C.O.L.
          https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/living-in-nz/money-tax/comparable-living-costs

          • weka 5.1.1.2.1
            28 July 2020 at 8:38 pm

            How many people coming home from living overseas don't have a house/flat lined up and go stay with family or friends?

            How many don't have a job?

            • PaddyOT 5.1.1.2.1.1
              28 July 2020 at 9:01 pm

              That was a given too Weka, but doesn't change the actual cost of the returned person to live daily in NZ. Like the neighbouring family with an earlier returnee pre-quarantine regs, the cost is still there but has instead transferred onto those parents.

              Janet's posting has merit.

              • weka …
                28 July 2020 at 9:49 pm

                so people with no money and no job should pay living costs they wouldn't otherwise have? Why?

          • Drowsy M. Kram 5.1.1.2.2
            28 July 2020 at 8:40 pm

            Many (most?) adults in quarantine (living totally free etc.) will effectively be unemployed, so in that case maybe subtract the value of the unemployment benefit from whatever fee is imposed? [Btw, my preference would be to charge only those who choose to go overseas after the fee is imposed.]

            Kiwis returning now are in quarantine for one reason – to keep us all safe.

            • PaddyOT 5.1.1.2.2.1
              28 July 2020 at 9:15 pm

              I don't disagree DMK. Janet's idea has merit as in similar to yours, or other alternatives such as deferring payments or none at all on a case by case. Currently, have a person living here in the house free because they were ' laid off' by Covid. They do not get a benefit yet because of stand down weeks BS# formula.

              That cost is still there eg. Power for hot shower, room, heating, food … but is now absorbed by the rest of household. So yes it's free from the returnees perspective!

          • Pat 5.1.1.2.3
            28 July 2020 at 8:50 pm

            again…what is a 'normal' daily living cost?…if one of my offspring were needing to return home for whatever reason they would be able to stay cost free with us until such time as they could fend for themselves…a position many parents would take…others would need different arrangements, how would you like to differentiate?

            This is a public health requirement so are you also suggesting that some NZ citizens shouldnt also be able to access our health system, welfare system or receive the benefit of our emergency services?…hell we could levy them to use 'our' infrastructure as well, personalised road tolls could make us a few bucks.

            These are NZers we are talking about….this is their country as much as it is those of us who are currently here…and if the timing was different 'there but for the grace of God….'

            • PaddyOT 5.1.1.2.3.1
              28 July 2020 at 9:33 pm

              So what would you propose for these two current scenarios?

              One is the woman who came out of Hamilton quarantine at the Ibis with plenty of praise for her stay. She's come back for a visit, not coerced but not staying either, returning to Oz later.

              Second, is an older chap remarrying and this wedding was booked for Rarotonga later this year. He's delighted because he says he gets a two week honeymoon on return for free .

              Case by case then, should you or I or anyone pay the $9000 ?

              • Pat …
                28 July 2020 at 9:48 pm

                Id propose exactly what I said in the original post…the Greens position….no charge for kiwi citizens outside the country prior to any charging regime and make those that choose to exit the country post charging regime aware that they will be required to pay should they choose to exit and return during pandemic border controls'

                Assume the first case you outline is an expat kiwi…and have no idea of the purpose of her visit but would suggest that it was likely pretty important given she is also subject to a 2 week (charged) isolation on return to Oz…thats 4 weeks of isolation for the trip.

                Not sure how your second case works…hes unlikely to be getting married in Rarotonga anytime soon and if his idea of a fun honeymoon is confined to a hotel room for two weeks I feel sorry for his future wife.

                Either way the cost to the taxpayer is unchanged

                • weka …
                  28 July 2020 at 9:52 pm

                  leaving NZ voluntarily seems clear enough (they pay for Q on return).

                  Did the Greens say what would happen with people coming in for a short period of time and then going back out again? eg someone comes back to NZ for a wedding, does 2 weeks Q, then the wedding then a holiday for a few weeks, then back to the UK.

                  • weka …
                    28 July 2020 at 9:56 pm

                    The other thing, that I haven't seen discussed much, is if someone gets on a plane to come to NZ, and the country they are coming from has covid, then they are putting the other people in the plane at risk. Likewise, someone in NZ wanting to go out and have a holiday. I guess there is some philosophical thing there about everyone on the plane consenting to being potentially exposed, but it's still weird that people esp in NZ think now is the time for an international holiday.

                  • Pat …
                    28 July 2020 at 10:12 pm

                    not in the piece i heard …but I would imagine the time in country will not be the issue…remember theres already rationing of isolation places and therefore entry into nz

                • PaddyOT …
                  28 July 2020 at 10:12 pm

                  Case 1. Was in the Herald this morning, couldn't find the link. All's fine she is just visiting which is fine too. Yes, she will have to pay for quarantine in Oz on return to her chosen country to permanently live; but said it would be wrong to charge her for coming here.

                  Case 2. The wife- to- be said " like hell" too.🙂
                  3rd scenario. What if Peter Thiel chose to come and use his Wanaka bolthole as a kiwi citizen?

                  The point was could it be a case by case to be fair ( similar process to legal aid as example) ?

                  The tickets to Rarotonga are still valid. And currently persons can still sail from NZ to Pacific Islands as per the " blue line" route currently with yachts arriving in Fiji as example.

                  • Pat …
                    28 July 2020 at 10:24 pm

                    case by case to be fair provides a couple of up front problems….the judgement is likely to be subjective and subject to appeal which leads to the second problem which is cost…as said to Janet earlier, what purpose is served by such a regime? it dosnt save any money(to speak of), it dosnt solve the capacity problem and it dosnt make the country any less likely to import covid….so whats the point?

                  • Pat …
                    28 July 2020 at 10:33 pm

                    since we're doing case studies heres one for you.

                    An expat living in Oz with wife, children , grandchildren all living in same Australian city has elderly unwell mother in NZ who may die at any time and should he wish to attend a funeral he will be required to do 4 weeks quarantine and need to take approx 6 weeks leave from an insecure job in a poor employment environment….shall we slap an isolation charge on him at this end just to make a bad situation worse so a few people can delude themselves theyre saving some theoretical future tax?

                    • Gabby …
                      29 July 2020 at 9:41 am

                      He should probably not attend the funeral.

                    • Pat …
                      29 July 2020 at 9:53 am

                      Quite possibly not…then of course he may wish to visit his mother before the cause of such an event …if possible.

                      The question remains….what purpose does charging serve?

  6. Muttonbird 6
    28 July 2020 at 6:23 pm

    Another brutal article on Collins.

    The National Party leader only believes her internal numbers.

    "I'm not going to give them to you," she told reporters, "I'm going to give them to the National Party caucus."

    Which she did, and then the National Party caucus gave them to Newshub.

    laugh

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/from-scary-to-tough-and-aggressive-kiwi-voters-describe-national-leader-judith-collins-in-one-word.html

    • Anne 6.1
      28 July 2020 at 6:39 pm

      Which she knew would happen but gives her plausible deniability to the faithful.

  7. Gabby 7
    28 July 2020 at 6:29 pm

    Outdoor heaters and air conditioners? What the hell, France?

  8. Muttonbird 8
    28 July 2020 at 6:42 pm

    Farrar watch:

    Horrible, horrible day for David.

    7:00am – Post about the legality of lockdown.

    10:00am – Review the next Todd Barclay/Hamish Walker type Nat candidate for Southland.

    12:00pm – Another post about the legality of lockdown. Yawn.

    2:00pm – Post about how hurt you were when Winston Peters chose to form a government with Labour, and not National.

    4:00pm – Trump.

    It is not going well.

  9. Dennis Frank 9
    28 July 2020 at 8:10 pm

    Farrar also reports on an electoral college landslide in the pipeline. "Biden 308, Trump 187, Toss Ups 40".

    But this is too long-range this far ahead of time. It's a projection of aggregated trends only: https://cookpolitical.com/sites/default/files/2020-07/EC%20Ratings.072320.2.pdf?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cook_Political_Report

  10. joe90 10
    28 July 2020 at 8:13 pm

    Just a flu… a respiratory virus that is also neurotoxic.

    The SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus attacks the respiratory system, but there is growing evidence that it also affects the nervous system. Several studies based on thousands of Spanish patients show that most of these individuals developed at least one neurological problem. This manifested itself in a wide range of symptoms, ranging from headaches to comatose states. In a percentage of cases, neurological conditions were even the principal cause of death. Although these symptoms have been attributed to the body’s excessive immune response to Covid-19, some research indicates that the virus is directly attacking the brain.

    […]

    But the most significant piece of research is a registry called Albacovid, which studies the neurological conditions observed in 841 coronavirus patients in two hospitals in Albacete in the Spanish region of Castilla-La Mancha during the peak of the crisis in March. The results, published in the specialist journal Neurology a few weeks ago, show that 57% of these patients developed one or several neurological symptoms.

    https://english.elpais.com/science_tech/2020-07-17/over-half-of-coronavirus-hospital-patients-in-spain-have-developed-neurological-problems-studies-show.html

    • weka 10.1
      28 July 2020 at 9:54 pm

      yep.

      Also pretty clear that a not insignificant proportion of people with covid don't recover fully. Still haven't heard if this has been true for any people in NZ.

  12. weka 12
    28 July 2020 at 9:57 pm

    lol the DR review photo. I'm surprised we haven't seen any Joker jokes yet.

  13. roblogic 13
    29 July 2020 at 12:30 am

    Heartbreaking piece by Prof Richard Wolff. 40 million unemployed in the USA while Wall St takes record profits. What a sick and corrupt country.

    https://youtu.be/7zRTskxbsRg

  14. millsy 14
    29 July 2020 at 1:33 am

    Just as every American has a moral obligation to vote for Biden, whether they are tankie, anarkiddie, Trot, Stalinist, social democrat, centrist, liberal, New Dealer, Third Way-er, moderate, so as in NZ, every New Zealander has a moral obligation to vote Labour.

    We need to keep out Collins, and if that means a Labour majority government, with no Greens or NZ First, then so be it.

    Goldsmith has implied that there is a huge austerity program in the works if National wins, in which a LOT of people will be screwed over.

    • Drowsy M. Kram 14.1
      29 July 2020 at 2:19 am

      I'll Party Vote Green – hope that doesn't make me immoral in your book, millsy – I believe the Green party is even less keen on austerity than Labour.

      http://werewolf.co.nz/2020/07/gordon-campbell-on-the-greens-attempts-to-look-like-underdogs/

      If that means a Labour-Green government, with no NZ First, then so be it.

      “There are two core problems with austerity. First, reductions in public spending have enormous, unequally distributed social consequences.”
      “The second problem with austerity is that it is not actually an effective means of reducing public debt.”
      https://esra.nz/future-proofing-aotearoa-new-zealand-life-covid-19/

    • novacastrian 14.2
      30 July 2020 at 6:12 am

      "Everybody has a moral obligation to vote Labour"…..why exactly?

      If You are using Biden in the US as your moral compass, then heaven forbid, it may be just as well that Trump remains in office. Biden is one seriously damaged individual, do your research on him, he makes Trump look like a saint. Drawing correlations between US and NZ politics is really not the best idea, because people like Ardern and Biden are poles apart.

      We should all be free to arrive at our own informed decision based upon policies, performance, leadership to name but a few items. But moral obligation, please, give it a rest, this nation needs thinkers, not more sheep.

      • millsy 14.2.1
        30 July 2020 at 10:55 pm

        I don't like Biden anymore than you do, but winding the USA back to the Clinton 1990's is way better than winding it back to the Buchanan 1850's.

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