Written By: - Date published: 3:56 pm, December 2nd, 2008 - 66 comments
Categories: john key -
Tags: phil goff, thailand
John Key’s first test as Prime Minister in a crisis is turning into a bloody fiasco, with the leader of the opposition having to tell him how to do his job through the media. Read the linked article, it’s extraordinary.
For the sake of the hundreds of Kiwis stranded in Thailand, can’t John just spare us the dithering and let Phil Goff handle the crisis?
UPDATE: Hilarious parody over at the Dim Post: ‘Key slams government response to Bangkok crisis‘
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Scoopit!
“where is the wailing over the Billion dollars missing from the ACC acounts?”
Missing? It wasn’t collected in the first place: it’s in taxpayers’ pockets. It’s interesting to see that, less than a month after the election, the outgoing government are being lambasted for not taxing New Zealanders enough…
Toad said “Let’s leave the ACC issue for another thread, when we’ve all had time to research it.”
Why? It’s SP who wants to talk about a fiasco!
Well at least somebody agrees with me. I was there in June when the protestors were storming govnt buildings and most of the tourists in Sukhumvit and Khao San didn’t know or cared what was happening. And now that their travel plans have been interrupted they think they should be airlifted to safety. I’d rather use it as an excuse to extend my vacation.
I think the point being made re ACC is the eerie parallel with the BNZ fiasco – the hiding of information that should have been noted well before the election.
Though I am alittle surprised at what this story is about. I remember commenting on ACC on this webite some months ago, responding to some uninformed yokel who was bleating about our ACC being the “worlds best model” – and don’t quote pwc reports back at me – I have both commissioned and written those reports and the first rule for the author is “follow the money”, or “who’s paying the bills”. You could prob find the analysis quite quickly by searching my name. If our system is so good why is it
a) insolvent
b) inequitable
c) riven by cross subsidies from employers and workers
d) far removed from the original intent of the ACC scheme (you should read the commission of inquiry report setting out recipe for ACC)
But the point I make is that everyone knows ACC is underfunded to the tune of around 6 billion dollars (across all their accounts). I don’t recall the exact detail or numbers as I no longer have much to do with that world, but ACC has been unfunded for years, wont get back to even (on the most optimisitc, outdated projections) to 2014 – try 2024 maybe. And from memory the 6 billion number was based on the 2007 report so things are way worse now. 10 minutes reading the anual report (available on the web) will tell you everything you need to know.
This current story is about the non-earners account which is funded mostly by govt transfer, not levies. As such, the government of the day should have been very aware of the underfunding and chicanery around not reporting it is just that. By the same token, the Nats were clearly asleep on the job as it would not be rocket science to work it out.
toad’s message just reinforced what I had been thinking of those stranded travelers all along: that there are thousands (if not tens of thousands) of New Zealanders that would much rather be “stuck in Thailand” right now than stuck in their present domestic situation.
Obviously Toad’s motivation is not what I had in mind – but it illustrates the point. Hardly a need to get flustered about conjuring up military transport to rescue people under threat of life. I’m sure the Govt would get better bang for their dollars spent on problems in NZ – but then I guess Tane’s post has vividly shown the value of an
expensive PR exercisedecisive rescue.In any case: anyone but the most witless individuals can still leave Thailand if they desperately needed to. It is still business as usual in the tourist destinations which share land borders with Thailand. The friendly protesters might even help point you in the right direction.
Toad: Kuala Lumpur and then catch a train.
The argument raised by Labour is that the ACC position was not absolutely clear prior to the prefu, hence they were not required to include it.
However, the point Key has made is that the general magnitude of the deficit was known in May that year, so a provision could have been made. Furthermore, the exact liability was known by the Government before 22nd of October, several weeks ahead of the election. Therefore, the Government had an obligation to update the prefu report.
Labour is trying to justify its behaviour on a legal technicality. Even if this technicality is found to stand up, that does not absolve them from the moral and ethical obligation to do the right thing by both the incoming government and the people of NZ. The fact that they did not disclose the information shows how morally bankrupt they are.
The problem for Labour is that they no longer in a position to interpret the rules to suit themselves. Therefore, the ministerial inquiry may find that indeed the law has been broken. Anyone have any idea on the penalties involved? Personally, I hope it includes jail time.
tsmithfield
“Anyone have any idea on the penalties involved? Personally, I hope it includes jail time.”
Nothing repeat nothing will happen in terms of penalties. Labour kept the issue under wraps because of the pending election I find that reprehensible but can understand their motivation.
Sadly I don’t expect any different behaviour from this government under similar circumstances unless somehow there’s a step change in transparency from politicians and the civil service in NZ.
I thought we dealt with why comparing Key to Obama was hilarious like, months ago. There was neither audacity nor hope in Key’s campaign, whether you ignore the third-party attacks or not.
ACC – just more proof that Key is a whiner, not a doer. There’s a problem – what does he do? Find a solution? No. He is going to spend a heap of cash on a Ministerial Inquiry to find out who knew about the problem.
You’re in charge John, do something about it!
Oh, and if we want to talk legacies left by outgoing governments we need to look at the mess that National left the entire country in after their last nine year berth…
Tigger
“Oh, and if we want to talk legacies left by outgoing governments we need to look at the mess that National left the entire country in after their last nine year berth ”
Gosh what a pointless exercise as people could just respond as below.
“Oh, and if we want to talk legacies left by outgoing governments we need to look at the mess that Labour left the previous National government …………. ”
Most if not all NZ governments are the beneficiary or victim of global economic conditions which they have had little say in and their job is to navigate a little economy on the edge of the world through those conditions.
What is it about the moaning state dependent left?
When one travels one should factor in the inherent risks of doing so. If Insurance does not cover situations then surely an individual should be liable for their own evacuation. Anyone would think there was civil war the way some here bleat on.
As usual though when public opinion prevails (apparently and I am not convinced that that was anymore than bleating left wing blogs and bored journos)the inherited from the Labour government’s available vessels of rescue are found to be lacking.
You cannot campaign on a platform of little to no functional air force and then expect a government to dash on mercy missions.
Tigger – come on, be at least a little even handed. What was Helens first response to any issue – ministerial inquiry, though that process was a bout burying facts. This one clearly has the opposite intent. And by the press reports he is going to do something about it – borrow another billion dollars.
The only whining I have heard has been coming from lawyers, consultants and lobbyists all used to feasting on the gravy train, showing concern that Key may confiscate their ladle.
Every debate we seem to have in NZ shows the same thing over and over again. We have no apolitical commentators, everything seems to be about the vested interest.
gomango, I suspect the consultants and lawyers and lobbyists will do quite nicely out of this government. What’s that little slush fund ACT was given for doing ‘research’ all about?
You have to feel at least a little bit sorry for Cullen, he was clearly struggling in the job he was given even in the days of plenty, and was well out of his depth by the end of it. It’s no wonder he couldn’t sleep very well. I’m guessing he’s relieved to be out of that job, probably had his best sleep in months after the election.
That said, I doubt he feels any ongoing guilt about screwing New Zealand and running it into the ground. The only person he’ll feel sorry for is himself, the smug little creep.
Time to open everything up for public scrutiny. Name and shame some public servants (those who have been playing games with the OIA for a start) and look at Labour’s political appointees to roles that shouldn’t be (politicised).
[lprent: Reads like a troll - soundbites with no actual content. Add to watch list. ]
pascal – i don’t disagree. Just a different set of vested interests which makes carping from either side even more hypocritical. One sides carping because they lost their place at the trough, the other side is carping because they haven’t yet secured a place at the trough.
Just remember the trough is paid for by you and me.
Brilliant quote from Don Key on the front page of NZ Fox-News-Herald:
” . . . every day that I don’t act is another 48 hours . . . “
Very first comment on this thread:
Unfortunately Mr Key is going to have to learn that there are some problems that can’t be solved by laying down your Amex Gold?
Unfortunately Tigger is going to have to learn that AmEx gold is so 2006. AmEx Platinum is “the new black”.
Phil, Isn’t the new black a line of credit from the Fed Reserve, or is that just the old red…
Isn’t red the new black? ie the colour of the bottom lines of the government’s accounts?
Whero,
Nice work taking Key out of context and using ellipses.
Here’s one for you: “David Parker . . . is . . . the laughing stock of the international community. Labour will hold . . . these backward looking policies.”
Phil – sorry about my error. Quite happy to be oblivious re Amex’s credit cards – I think Amex’s are for rich tossers.
gomango – Last time I looked I wasn’t a professional journalist so being even-handed and balanced aren’t ethical considerations I need to be concerned about.
Anyway, Key is whining – he’s quoted as whining – that’s not my opinion – he’s actually in print moaning about how hard he’s got it and how bad things are for him and his government. If I did that when I started a job my boss would be wondering what nightmare he had just hired – which is no doubt what some people who voted for Key will be thinking themselves.
Look, Key is facing a test with the Thailand issue and so far he’s tripping over his feet, looking indecisive and weak. As far as I’m concerned – New Zealand, told you so. He’s NOT PM material – never was, never will be. We were sold a horse and got a donkey.
“Amex’s are for rich tossers”
Why’s that ?
it’s “pricks” Tigger, “rich pricks”.
Tigger – you are EXACTLY right.
Poor us. Everytime i see that thing who calls himself PM on telly i cringe…..oh the embarrasement to have Forrest Gump as our representative!!
Run Forrest Run…..
Great story re AmEx and the ‘new rich’
I went to dinner with some friends, one of who was trying to impress a girl well recognised as being quite materialistic. When it came time to sort the bill, he graciously offers to pay for the whole table and then get cash from the rest of us later.
He whips out the standard (green and white design) AmEx, to which the girl ever so slightly disdainfully responds; “Oh, I didn’t realise they still made those”.
Love the response from some of the righties here. It’s so beautifully in line with Key’s own inaction to spend time pointing fingers and whingeing about “it’s all Laaaaaaabour’s fault” while NZers might, you know, actually be in trouble and need a way out of Thailand.
Will you be sending a Herc next time there’s a strike at Heathrow QoT cos perish the thought someone’s holiday arrangements are interfered with and they are late back for work. And London is pretty dangerous. They even have bombs going off there and protest marches and everything.
I thought a prime minister’s role was to be Prime Ministerial. That is, making decisions. Intelligently and decisively, minimal dithering, and no dithering on camera.
Like, arranging transport on standby immediately and telling the country so. If air force planes are being repaired, chartering a plane off air new zealand if necessary is surely within a prime minister’s options. Instead this imposter whines about how the previs guvmint ran down the err fawce. Or something. (shouldn’t a prime minister also be intelligible?)
These right wing trolls who slither over here from whaleoilspill used to moan in unison about helen being bossy, when we now see this is making decisions. Being a prime minister.
I bet they miss her already.
Tigger “He’s NOT PM material – never was, never will be. We were sold a horse and got a donkey.”
Theres no need to be insulting…….to donkeys.
The comparison should be we were sold a sweetened up orange and ended up with the mother of all lemons
Insider & co are missing the point. They’re arguing (logically enough, from the right) for a government that does less. But John Key campaigned on promising a government that does MORE.
Everything you’re not happy with (schools, hospitals, your holiday in Thailand, the price of cheese) would be fixed by Choosing a Brighter Future. There was no philosophical debate about what a government should or shouldn’t try and do for people – that was so 2005. Key shut the debate down. He offered more goodies for everyone, and no losers. Santa Key is coming to town!
Now, he could just say “The problems in Thailand are not our responsibility”, but that would mean – oo, er – telling some voters what they don’t want to hear. John Key doesn’t do bad news. He’s addicted to the Happy Talk. So this kind of thing is going to happen a lot more, and on much bigger issues than this. This is what happens when you elect a man who thinks being Prime Minister would be, wow, sooo totally cool … as long as nobody does anything really mean, like criticise him.
Case study: here’s an interesting story from 3 News. What would you do if you were PM? And given hundreds of similar cases around the country, when would you stop doing it?
“The Government may be about to bail out cash-stretched Surf Life Saving New Zealand to ensure that our beaches are guarded this summer.
Life Saving is one of many charities badly affected by the economic downturn. It has lost about $4 million of funding from corporates and charitable trusts
…
Twenty-five percent of its income comes from fundraising activities and another 25 percent comes from lottery grants and local government.
But the other 50 percent which comes from charity gaming, community trusts and corporate sponsorship has dried up as a direct result of the current economic downturn.
…
That has meant Surf Life Saving has been looking at how it might scale back operations, or at least that was the case. After being made aware of the situation by 3 News, the Community and Voluntary Sector Minister announced the Government will come to the rescue.
“We are very concerned to hear that given the number drowning we are seeing around the country,” says Tariana Turia. “I prepared to meet with Surf Life Saving to talk through what the issues are and how we might help them.”
That is likely to mean financial help and while Ms Turia does not hold the purse strings in this new Government, her boss, Prime Minister John Key, is the patron of a Surf Life Saving club and may be sympathetic.”
(3 News)
Me, I’d give them the cash. But then, I’d cancel the tax cuts for the wealthiest as well
Any righties prepared to say No to the handout? I bet you John Key isn’t. Form an orderly queue, John is your friend, and is eager to please.
Prime Ministers who desperately need to be liked are always the weakest. And that’s what we’ve now got. Get used to it.
here is john keys big chance to be a leader
a man amongst men, and all he has done since he got in is run around likea chook with its head cut off and when he is standing still alll he can do is whinge and moan andd blame
wow
what a guy