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The Standard

Key’s sickening opportunism over Norway attacks

Written By: - Date published: 12:55 pm, July 23rd, 2011 - 261 comments
Categories: afghanistan, Minister for Overseas Holidays, scoundrels - Tags: ,

The bombing and shootings in Norway overshadowed Key’s meeting with Obama. But he was quick to exploit Norway’s tragedy for political gain saying: “I think what it shows is no country large or small is immune from risk [of ‘global’ terrorism] and that’s why New Zealand plays its part in Afghanistan.”

In reality, the gunman, who also appears to have been the bomber, was a Norwegian connected to rightwing groups. He was attacking the country’s Labour government and the youth wing of the Labour party. Quite how being in Afghanistan protects us from violent rightwingers, I don’t know.

Just to make that clear:

A Norwegian police official says the man suspected of the Oslo bombing and a shooting at a youth camp does not appear to be linked to Islamist terrorism.

The official says the attacks probably have more in common with the 1995 attack on a US federal building in Oklahoma City than the September 11, 2001 attacks.

He says the suspect appears to have acted alone, and “it seems like that this is not linked to any international terrorist organisations at all”.

“It seems it’s not Islamic-terror related,” the official said. “This seems like a madman’s work.”

After the Madrid bombings, Spain’s rightwing government tried to hide the truth of who was behind the attacks. They blamed the Basque to justify a campaign against ETA. That opportunism led to the downfall of the government.

Key, of course, has been sickeningly opportunistic, but not that bad. He just jumped on an opportunity to justify continuing the military deployments in Afghanistan. He still needs to apologise to the people of Norway for crassly using their hour of pain for his domestic political purposes.

261 comments on “Key’s sickening opportunism over Norway attacks”

  1. Peter Bains 1

    As they say timing and opportunism is everything in politics.
    Good on ya Key.

  2. handle 2

    I bet that was McCully’s line.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    What’s next from Key’s pretend universe, the one where everyone is better off at the moment (as opposed to just him and his mates)?

    BTW he’s just made us look more stupid and disconnected, in front of the American leadership.

  4. Nick C 4

    Could you please show some evidence that the bomber is ‘connected to right wing groups’?

    • Zetetic 4.1

      “The 32 year old ethnic Norwegian national arrested for the Utøya shootings belongs to a right-wing group, reports TV2.”

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/jul/22/oslo-explosion-live-coverage

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

        What? From that Lefty Wing rag? That’s not going to satisfy Nick C’s thirst for “evidence” mate :)

        edit – or it might :mrgreen:

      • Nick C 4.1.2

        Thank you

      • Tangled up in blue 4.1.3

        Also from that link:

        A terror group, Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (the Helpers of the Global Jihad), issued a statement claiming responsibility for the attack, according to Will McCants, a terrorism analyst at CNA, a research institute that studies terrorism. The message said the attack was a response to Norwegian forces’ presence in Afghanistan and to unspecified insults to the Prophet Muhammad. “We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations,” the group said, apparently referred to a bombing in Sweden in December 2010, according to Mr McCants’ translation. “What you see is only the beginning, and there is more to come.” The claim could not be confirmed.

        • Zetetic 4.1.3.1

          false claims of responsibility are regularly made after such events.

          the assumption from Key and some media early on that it must have been islamists/immigrants is just racism and opportunism. They should have waited to get the facts first.

          They have the guy. He’s a Norwegian. He’s a member of a far-right group. Case closed.

          • Tangled up in blue 4.1.3.1.1

            Sure Key should have waited for the MSM to confirm, this was opportunism.

            How is it racism?

            • Zetetic 4.1.3.1.1.1

              how is it racism that whenever there’s a bombing everyone assumes it’s muslims? It that what you’re asking?

              • Tangled up in blue

                There’s a difference between “assuming it’s muslims” and assuming the truth of a statement claiming responsibility form a Muslim terror group.

                But more to my point is that Islam is a religion and not a race.

                • And Judaism is a religion, and millions were sent to death camps, was this a religious act or a racist act, given most had olive skin, dark hair and didn’t look the slightest bit Aryan….

                • Zetetic

                  semantics. that’s all you’ve got?

                  the ‘it’s gotta be muslims’ angle was out well before that false claim of responsibility.

                  look at the wikipedia page and key is alone among world leaders in claiming this had something to do with afghanistan.

                  • Tangled up in blue

                    the ‘it’s gotta be muslims’ angle was out well before that false claim of responsibility.

                    Of course. What does this have do to with John Key being racist?

                    • Zetetic

                      I said Key was opportunistic. See, he’s been coming under pressure to explain why we are in Afghanistan. Along comes this tragedy in Norway and, despite not having any evidence it is anything to do with Afghanistan, he callously uses it for his domestic political purposes.

                    • Tangled up in blue

                      @ Zetetic – I’ve already agreed that it was opportunism. And yes it was callous and self-serving. My query was to do with your statement:

                      the assumption from Key and some media early on that it must have been islamists/immigrants is just racism and opportunism.

                      Anyway, moving along.

                    • felix

                      Do you really not get that it’s a bit racist to automatically assume muslims whenever something gets blown up?

                      Really?

                    • Tangled up in blue

                      felix said:

                      Do you really not get that it’s a bit racist to automatically assume muslims whenever something gets blown up?

                      Really?

                      FFS. Yes of fuckin course it’s racist. My point is that Key didn’t do this and so his premature opportunism makes him look stupid but it is not racism. Zetetic said Key’s actions were racist. Either he is mistaken or is being intellectually dishonest.

                    • felix

                      Then why the link to the Afghanistanians?

              • TightyRighty

                do a little venn diagram zetetic,

                If most bombings are terrorism and most terrorists are muslim, probability states that most bombings are carried out by muslims.

                • Mike Smith

                  Most? proof/source/link?

                • bbfloyd

                  except that the conception that muslims are responsible for the majority of “terror” attacks is a myth pushed by the western media at the behest of western governments.

                  this idiocy only looks remotely credible if you ignore human history before 1970…. plenty of “terror” attacks going on then, by many, many different groups… they used to call them freedom fighters, or insurgents, mainly because they were blowing up communists. they were hero’s of democracy.

                  what’s different now?

                • jackal

                  Most bombings are carried out by America.

                  • rosy

                    Small point…although I agree with your conclusion, can you use USA instead of America? Much of US foreign policy has had significantly negative impacts on other countries on the American continents.

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    The USA has pretty much been in a continual state of war for at least the last 120 years.

                    All these interventions directly served corporate interests, and many resulted in massive losses of civilians, rebels, and soldiers.

                    The biggest terrorist/rogue state in the world is the USA and yet our PM is over there kissing arse.

                    • jackal

                      I guess it’s all about public perception of who the real terrorists are. In my opinion the US* has instigated the wars that have created many “terrorists” in other countries in the first place.

                      Key’s comments seem somewhat similar to George Bush when he said:

                      “Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don’t attack each other. Free nations don’t develop weapons of mass destruction.”

                      He obviously has a completely different understanding of what the word “free” means, and is ignoring the fact that the US has the most weapons of mass destruction in the entire world.

                      *Not such a small point rosy… One cannot say that the policies of Brazil for instance contribute to the United State’s foreign policy of mass murder in places like Afghanistan.

                • rosy

                  If most fruit in shops is bananas and most bananas are from France, probability states that most fruit in shops comes from France.

                  Your assumption needs to be proved correct for the logic to be relevant.

                  • jackal

                    If most of the bombs are made by US companies and the US army kills more innocent people than any other nation, who are the biggest terrorists?

                    The law of probability therefore shows that anybody who thinks terrorists are only Muslims, is an idiot!

                    Such a stereotypical belief system must be difficult to maintain TightyRighty, especially in light of recent events.

                • AAMC

                  Tighty, from Juan Cole to you. Your Islamaphobia is fantasy.

                  ” In 2010, according to Europol [pdf], 7 persons were killed in terrorist attacks. Some 160 of these attacks that year were carried out by separatists. The number launched by people of Muslim heritage? 3.”
                  http://www.juancole.com/2011/07/white-terrorism-in-norway.html

                • KJT

                  Most bombings are carried out by the USA. Closely followed by Israel.

                  Killing several hundred Palestinians for every Israeli that gets bombed. Or a thousand Muslims for every American smacks a bit too much of the things we condemned the Nazis for.

                • Vicky32

                  If most bombings are terrorism and most terrorists are muslim, probability states that most bombings are carried out by muslims.

                  Except that while the first premise might be true, the second isn’t! It is manifestly untrue that most terrorists are Muslim. (The first I ever heard about terrorist bombings was when I was a small child, among the victims, someone my father had known when he was young, the perps the IRA. (This was in Liverpool, long ago).

      • SHG 4.1.4

        Another religious nut.

    • Vicky32 4.2

      By now, Nick C, it’s well known, from his own confession!

  5. Afewknowthetruth 5

    Key is being richly rewarded by his corporate mates for promoting global corporatism.

    The big question is: when will the covert fascism morph into overt fascism? Whenever I look at Key I see the black peaked cap, the black uniform and the SS insignias.

    • Bored 5.1

      Perhaps he needs a good word with his mother about what it was like to be Jewish in pre-war Vienna.

    • higherstandard 5.2

      I suggest you increase your olanzapine dose to 20mg per day and supplement with lithium or valproate.

      • mickysavage 5.2.1

        Effin RWNJs.  Innocent young lefties have been killed and you have to go on the attack.  And our effin PM uses their death to score a cheap political point.

        Absolutely appalling. 

        • Pete George 5.2.1.1

          Micky, read your post, then read the headline of this post, and pause for thought.

          • felix 5.2.1.1.1

            What makes you think we’re not allowed to point out Key’s disgraceful behaviour, Pete?

            Make the actual argument instead of hiding behind innuendo and cheap smears.

            Put your case so it can be addressed.

          • mickysavage 5.2.1.1.2

            I did Pete and I though the headline was expressing the same thought except in more civil terms.

            Shame on Key.

            I have brooded on this all day.  I heard the news this morning at 8 am and it is just appalling that young idealistic lefties should lose their lives at the hands of a madman.  

            And Key’s comments are effin appalling.  I think I will go and make a significant donation right now because of it.  How dare he.  Couldn’t he just say it was a tragedy to occur to a country that was similar to New Zealand and that his heart went out to the parents of the young idealistic people who lost their lives and left it at that? 

            • mik e 5.2.1.1.2.1

              Key otherwise known as smile and wave or earlier mister wishy washy[ie broken washing machine permanently stuck on spin]

        • higherstandard 5.2.1.2

          Gosh Greg the standard of your debate is magnificent, the Law society must be so proud to have professionals of your character foaming all over the interwebs.

        • Blue 5.2.1.3

          Why does it matter if they were “lefties”. The point is they were killed by a lunatic, his politics are of no importance. You describe these poor young people by their supposed political affiliations, which I also find sickeningly opportunistic. How about instead of your usual pants wetting hysteria at Key, try some sympathy for their deaths, for their families, instead of points scoring. Would you have been as outraged is they weren’t “idealistic lefties” and had other politic views, or wouldn’t those young lives count as much? Key has described terrorism and our role, nothing more in his statement, the point was we cannot live in a vacuum and watch the world from the sidelines. FFS get some perspective. Its no wonder you languish in the polls. Cold hearted moron.

      • mik e 5.2.2

        The right lowering the standard again it seems as he knows hoe to use these drugs so well

    • Tangled up in blue 5.3

      Whenever I look at Key I see the black peaked cap, the black uniform and the SS insignias.

      You sure put the loony in lefty. Thanks for nothing arsehole.

      • Ianupnorth 5.3.1

        Tory trolls are back…..

        • handle 5.3.1.1

          How is deploring stupid Godwinning the mark of Tories?

          • RedLogix 5.3.1.1.1

            Yeah sure.. the Godwinning rule is useful otherwise threads descend into a ‘whose a bigger Nazi?’ pissing contest.

            At the same time it’s equally useful to keep in mind that we only demonise Mr A Hitler in hindsight. IIRC didn’t Time magazine select him as ‘Man of the Year’in 1935?

            • TightyRighty 5.3.1.1.1.1

              Or that before world war II he was considered by most outside of germany to be the consummate gentleman and statesman? context and relevance can reveal some amazing traits in otherwise demonised individuals. I would place recent ex labour leaders on both sides of the tasman in that category when you only look at what their opponents had to say about them.

              • mik e

                Only in America Tighty which sold them the infrastructure to annihilate 50 to 60 million people. Not unlike this right wing nutter who was most likely inspired by their hero Hitler.This annihialistic attitude pervades the right only to become more extreme the more fanatical they are!

          • Draco T Bastard 5.3.1.1.2

            Godwin’s Law

            Godwin’s law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] which has become an Internet adage. It states: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%).”[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.

            It says nothing about the said comparison being wrong. Doing that would require argument based around observed fact rather than asserting Godwin11!!1 as if that proved the argument which, really, is all you’ve done here handle.

            • handle 5.3.1.1.2.1

              My comment questioned the assumption that only RWNJs would be annoyed by someone introducing “SS insignia” into a discussion. If you want to be all literal about Godwin, that’s your funeral.

              • felix

                By “be all literal” I assume you mean “know what it actually means and understand how it relates to this discussion”.

                And yes, tories do tend to shout “Godwin” without knowing what it means more often, because they have more opportunity to do so.

                The reason they have more opportunity to do so is because they’re more likely to be compared to fasc1sts, and the reason for that is that they have more in common with them.

                As for the reason they shout it without knowing what it means, that’s because they tend to have lower IQs and fewer education.

                Gosh I feel smug after that, I think I’ll go have a lie down.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Its interesting that RWNJs also buy completely into the idea of an extreme post-modernism: that there is no true meaning in anything apart from the meaning you choose to give it on a particular day.

                  The thing is, no matter how you wish to define, redefine, or spin it, gravity will still kill.

                • Locus

                  my first laugh of the day – thank you Felix :)

                • higherstandard

                  “As for the reason they shout it without knowing what it means, that’s because they tend to have lower IQs and fewer education.”

                  Is that a bit like lefties being more likely to being raving benders ?

        • Tangled up in blue 5.3.1.2

          Because anyone who doesn’t think that Key is an ‘evil Nazi’ must be a RWNJ? Right?

          • jackal 5.3.1.2.1

            Wrong!

            I think you missed the point tangled. The fact that a comparison between Nazism and National is able to be made at all is something that is abhorrent to most people, and not determined by their political allegiances. The question posed concerned how open John Key will become with his covert fascism, not peoples opinion. You would do better arguing that he is not an “evil Nazi,” instead of determining who does and doesn’t believe it.

            Many on the right wing will see that the policies that National’s been promoting are akin to many Nazi ideals, and those that support such can readily be labeled as RWNJ’s if you like. There will be many who are not learned or aware of history and its similarities with current occurrences, who do not think John Key is a fascist and I would not label them RWNJ’s for their ignorance.

            Your argument amounts to the labeling of people who do not think John Key is an “evil Nazi,” when many who support National are openly fascist. In this way your argument makes no sense.

            Some RWNJ’s are Nazi’s and support John Key because they believe he’s like them, making your statement that they do not think John Key is a Nazi incorrect. Some people will think John Key is a fascist but vote National anyway for other reasons putting their good judgement aside, while some people will not think that there are similarities between Nazi’s and National at all and still be RWNJ’s.

            You sure put the Nut in RWNJ Tangled up in poo. I’m looking forward to the November roasting.

            • higherstandard 5.3.1.2.1.1

              I suggest you find yourself a girlfriend [name deleted].

            • weka 5.3.1.2.1.2

              The problem there Jackal is you’re equating nazism with facism. Shouldn’t there be a venn diagram? If Key and/or the Nats are to be compared to either the Nazis or called facist in general, we need a bit more detail otherwise it renders the argument to name calling.

              • jackal

                True! Perhaps somebody should do a Venn diagram, but it’s easier to just throw them all in the same hole.

                The first thing to spring to mind is the Welfare Working Group’s recommendation for a eugenics program for the poor. As far as I’m aware, National has neither confirmed or denied if they will implement such an obviously Nazi inspired policy.

                More recently Bomber outed a White Supremacist in the anti MMP group. So it’s not baseless name calling, there are specific cases that align the right wing with fascism and Nazism.

                Specifically I can think of a few of Key’s statements that are incorrigibly sexist, racist and against the poor. One can pose that his motivation is inspired by fascist ideals, and then make the comparison to those who extoll similar beliefs.

                • weka

                  I’m not saying it’s baseless, I’m saying it’s inaccurate to use the term Naz1 in the way you do and if you want it to be taken seriously then you need accuracy.
                   
                  As evil as the WWG’s report is, comparing their recommendations around contraception to Naz1s killing millions of Jews in order the purify the race is ridiculous and counterproductive hyperbole. Yes the WWG’s ideas around welfare and how women get pregnant are probably fascist, so call it that. But don’t call them Naz1s because it will just make people roll their eyes and dismiss what you are saying.
                   
                  I understand the links between the right in NZ and fascism. But again, calling people like Key a Naz1 is counterproductive because it’s inaccurate and it deflects from the intricacies of the real issues and situation. It lessens our ability to criticise his individual actions and the people that need to see the immense problems that he is causing are not going to listen to people that call him a Naz1. It’s also lazy.
                   
                  This is why people call on Godwin’s Law. Even though it’s not technically correct, there is now a common usage of the term on the internet that says that inappropriate use of the term Naz1 loses you the argument.

                  • jackal

                    Perhaps an inappropriate use of the term Nazi might lose an argument if it is incorrectly and/or inarticulately applied, however using the term Nazism to define the WWG proposal of contraception only for the poor is not hyperbole. You’ve failed to argue the merits of the case weka, and instead equated your own repugnance at such a comparison, to an argument.

                    The fact that it’s a minority group that is predominantly Maori that’s being targeted, opposed to Jewish or Gypsy people makes no difference to the contextual reality of fascism. The right wing believe that the poor are not entitled to breed and this is just one example of that fascism being openly displayed.

                    Although Nazism is a specific form of fascism, making a definition, (in this case the WWG’s biologically racial and financially inspired eugenics program) does not restrict the use of such a comparison. It is the definition of fascism that is being debated, not the level of that fascism as it is acted upon.

                    Remember, Nazism was once very less extreme than the harshness and reference you might imagine is being made. Nobody is arguing that John Key is going to exterminate millions of people, but that there are similarities in National’s policies to Nazi Germany is indisputable.

                    Your proposal that Nazism is not equated with fascism is incorrect. In fact the main difference is with antisemitism, which nobody could rightly accuse Key of being. In this respect your request for a specific definition is justified, but in terms of the eugenics program it is not.

                    The comparison to Key being a Nazi might be over the top if the similarities between the policies of Nazi Germany and National were not so obvious. The rhetoric, media manipulation and obfuscation to mention but a few comparisons, is so akin to Nazi ideals and fascist propaganda, that I’m wondering if they’re taking cues from Mein Kampf.

                    As you’ve mentioned, Godwin’s Law does not apply when the specific reference is reasonably equivalent and therefore justified. If you cannot argue that the reference has been inappropriately applied in the first place, then no amount of theorizing can fix that weka, not even a straw man.

                  • Vicky32

                    As evil as the WWG’s report is, comparing their recommendations around contraception to Naz1s killing millions of Jews in order the purify the race is ridiculous and counterproductive hyperbole. Yes the WWG’s ideas around welfare and how women get pregnant are probably fascist, so call it that. But don’t call them Naz1s because it will just make people roll their eyes and dismiss what you are saying.

                    I have two comments: if Nazism wasn’t fascist, what was it? There’s no other category into which it can possibly fit!
                    Also, although it’s a widely held belief, especially amongst NZ teens and 20-somethings, and afaik all Americans, it is not true that the Nazis killed or wanted to kill only Jews! When my son was studying WW2 at Western Springs College in 2005, he learned that his classmates almost all believed that World War 2 began in 1942, when the noble USA rose up against Hitler in order to save the Jews. That’s simply not how it was. :(

              • higherstandard

                Yes more Venn diagrams will clearly sway the audience.

            • Tangled up in blue 5.3.1.2.1.3

              You are a blinkered moron. How’s this for you ignorant generalisations:

              I can’t stand John Key. I don’t think he is Nazi. I am easily left-wing. I have voted Greens Party vote my whole life.

              But the left & right are homogeneous groups huh?

              • jackal

                Are you arguing that what the leader of a group says does not define that group Tangled up in poo? The reality is that a leader should speak for the group he represents. In this case John Key was speaking on a world stage and meant to be representing all Kiwi’s when he said:

                “I think what it shows is no country large or small is immune from risk and that’s why New Zealand plays its part in Afghanistan.”

                The fact that Key cannot differentiate between what is happening in Afghanistan and what has happened in Norway or that he chose to ignore the facts of the matter to promote his own ideals is unacceptable.

                Such ignorance/opportunism shows that he’s representative of a very small minority of liars who use any means to justify their goals… even the suffering of innocent people. Key is therefore not representative of the majority of New Zealander’s and is clearly unfit to be Prime Minister.

                However, I think that such an ignorant and/or opportunistic statement still represents the National Party to a large degree, as this type of incomprehensibly stupid/heartless statement is not an isolated incident.

                It’s your generalization Tangled that we should label anybody who thinks Key is an “evil Nazi” as a RWNJ. I gave you many other situations that diverge from that generalization, which you have chosen to ignore. It appears that you cannot mount a proper argument and have resorted to calling names, which ironically is what you seem to be arguing against.

                The term you’re looking for is effective medium approximation. When Key is surrounded by New Zealand mainstream media he appears representative, but when he is removed from that supportive approximation and required to act like a leader, he fails!

                That failure is what we should be concerned with, not what names to bestow it with. However when there is a direct comparison, as the two I have mentioned above, then people should call it like they see it.

                In this latest case Zetetic says opportunistic, and I have to agree… Although stupid and insensitive also spring to mind to describe john Key’s “representation.”

      • bbfloyd 5.3.2

        tanglefoot…that statement demeans you..nobody else… just you. H.S. has issues that preclude him from serious consideration….

        it was fine to paint swastika’s on photo’s of helen clarke, but now that the truth is showing through the wall of bullshit the tories have been assisted in foisting on us you have a problem?

        fuck off numbnuts.

        • Tangled up in blue 5.3.2.1

          “It’s was fine to paint swastika’s on photo’s of helen clarke”

          O RLY?

          When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me.

      • Afewknowthetruth 5.3.3

        As usual, the ignorant and the deceived resort to insults when presented with the truth.

    • SHG 5.4

      Whenever I look at Key I see the black peaked cap, the black uniform and the SS insignias.

      Ladies and gentlemen, I give you The Standard.

      [lprent: Nope – what you have is afewknowthetruth. We allow all kinds of political nutters here including you (and much of the time I have problems distinguishing you two apart from the sides and afktt tends to be better at arguing his point of view). Provided they conform to our pretty minimal behavioral limits we don’t constrain commentators. ]

    • Blue 5.5

      Whenever I read your poorly constructed prose – I think of Stalin, Mao and the millions they killed in the name of “equality”. Fascism doesn’t allow people to vote, you back woods hairy back, so there is no comparison.

      • Colonial Viper 5.5.1

        Hey dude have you read about the millions who have been killed in the last 10 years in the name of “oil”?

        Fascism doesn’t allow people to vote, you back woods hairy back, so there is no comparison.

        Now don’t go living in la-la land, ‘being able to vote’ is not the same thing as having democracy.

        For instance in the US they have a choice of voting between The Bankers Party and The Other Bankers Party. Fat lot of use that is in terms of ‘democracy’.

  6. Sanctuary 6

    Key was inept in even making a comment when in possession of no more facts than anyone else.

    That he felt the need to put in his 2c worth – and fuck up (again) is beyond belief.

    What an idiot.

  7. Lazy Susan 7

    Second stuff-up of the week by Key. This guy just cannot think on his feet and is an embarrassment

    • Sanctuary 7.1

      Whenever he is outside of carefully scripted set-piece media events with sycophantic media he screws up. Inexperience is no longer an excuse – he has been PM for three years.

      • handle 7.1.1

        You seriously believe he wasn’t prepped with a variety of lines to justify sucking up to the Americans?

    • Anne 7.2

      My immediate thought to Lazy Susan.

      The man’s a walking embarrassment!

      What about the comment re- the Israeli affair: “the SIS Officers got quite excited about it”.

      Bet that went down well…

  8. randal 8

    so johnnyboy is tight with the Norwegianians now too?

  9. jbc 9

    It does look like a particularly dumb comment in the context of some of the facts, but I’m not clear on the timing of the PM comment and the arrival of news.

    The same ‘updated’ Herald article mentions: “Norway has been grappling with a homegrown terror plot linked to al-Qaeda. Two suspects are in jail awaiting charges.”

    And earlier news items make no mention of a right-wing gunman, but do speculate on “jihad-inspired terrorism”:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/22/oslo-explosion-government-building
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/22/oslo-explosion-terrorist-bomb-attack

    So it is possible that the Afghanistan comment might not have been quite as dumb as it looks now. Obviously unwise to speculate before all the facts are out though.

  10. Samuel Hill 10

    This is what its all about though. Keeping the system of control in place. Key’s comments were made to justify his ideological view of his country and his leadership. John Key believes in the strength of the current globalized, capitalist, consumer system. John Key’s view is probably not too different to many leaders. Perhaps he should not have mentioned Afghanistan, but he can hardly add any more content to the debate can he? We’ve never seen anything like it. We DO protect many Afghanis from terrorism. He doesn’t have anything else to reference. So maybe he should have said nothing. But I don’t think its a biggy. How about the comments of the Norwegian leader? He has said that ‘this will not break our democracy’, ‘we shall be more open’ etc. This is essentially the very view that the person making the attacks seems to have targeted. An attack of this scale, with the government and liberal social views clearly the focal point for the violence, should not be brushed aside simply because the level of horror is so surreal and on such a massive scale. Innocent victims, yes. But you would be correct to question what difference is this violence to that acted out by militaries around the world. The state justifies it’s own existence via democracy. Global power is vested in the state, and expressed via corporate rule.

  11. John D 11

    I am very sorry to hear about this dreadful tragedy. Norway is a small and peace loving country not dissimilar to NZ.

    The many islands that dot Oslofjord are similar in some respects to the islands of the Hauraki Gulf.
    If you try to imagine a camp located on Waiheke Island, and 80 of our kids being slaughtered by a gunman, then it gives some idea of the horror.

    I can’t condone Key’s opportunism, nor can I condone the politicisation of this issue in this thread.

    Who cares whether the gunman was “right-wing”? Most people can’t even define what that term means.

    • handle 11.1

      Key ‘politicised’ this when he linked it with Afghanistan. No one forced him to do that.

    • Deadly_NZ 11.2

      What a tosser. It’s as if he’s inviting terrorism to NZ. Come to NZ, a country of 4 million people, who’s police force is used for gathering income for the government. The Military is comprised of a few thousand soldiers with NO tanks; NO modern weapons. Come one come all, just tell em John KY sent you.

      • jackal 11.2.1

        Is that John KY jelly?

        Personally I put this down to the Prime Ministers stupidity. Clearly New Zealand’s involvement in the “war against terror” has nothing to do with a right wing nut job killing people in Norway. His comparison was disrespectful and ultimately designed to promote a failed ideology based on lies.

        I notice that John Key’s stupidity wasn’t reported on at all by New Zealand’s mainstream media today. God forbid that his smile and wave brand is threatened with the truth. We can’t have people realizing the Prime Minster is an idiot after all.

        Our involvement in Afghanistan has assuredly increased the danger of a terrorist attack in New Zealand. Perhaps the threat is closer to home though and the SIS should start investigating people like Kyle Chapman.

    • I can’t condone Key’s opportunism

      You can say “I condemn Key’s opportunism”.

      And then realise this post is a response to him.  If he had not said what he did I am sure this post would be one of regret and remembrance. 

      • U 4 United 11.3.1

        Are you silly enough to infer Key had beforehand knowledge? Otherwise how can your absurd meanderings constitute “opportunism?”

        What a sewer this blog is! Bye forever!

  12. Samuel Hill 12

    I agree John D. The title of this post “Key’s sickening opportunism over Norwar attacks” is pretty sickening in itself.

  13. higherstandard 13

    So have you got a link to what Key actually said that’s made you have a such a big grizzle ?

      • higherstandard 13.1.1

        Gweg Pwessland ?

        • jackal 13.1.1.1

          Cameron Slater ?

          • higherstandard 13.1.1.1.1

            Harpoon ?

            • jackal 13.1.1.1.1.1

              I presume you’re the person who’s been making bottom sex comments at the Jackal Cameron Slater… are you willing to stand by those statements now?

              • higherstandard

                I’ve been to your site once and after seeing pictures of current parliamentarians shopped to appear as Nazis and members of the KKK decided not to bother again as you’re clearly a pimply bottomed youth who’s got too much time and a rather warped view of the world.

                So no not me, someone else must be lusting after your young cheeks.

                • jackal

                  Cameron Slater’s stalking me.

                  [lprent; hs is not Cameron Slater. Apart from anything else, he has too large a vocabulary. ]

  14. You know what’s sickeningly opportunistic?

    This article.

    For shame.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1

      Difference being this is a boring political website, whereas John Key is our Prime Minister.

      • joe bloggs 14.2.1

        [deleted]

        [lprent: You’re still banned until the 29th ]

      • Draco T Bastard 14.2.2

        EDIT:
        ODT Article

        “If it is an act of global terrorism then I think what it shows is that no country, large or small, is immune from that risk,” Mr Key said.

        “And that’s why New Zealand plays its part in Afghanistan as we try and join others like the United States to make the world a safer place.”

        No misrepresentation by the post author. John Key really did use it to try to explain why we’re in Afghanistan.

        • higherstandard 14.2.2.1

          Must be just me but I’m not sickened by Key saying that and find myself thinking that it’s a pretty reasonable thing to say while you’re over in Washington as PM.

          I wonder what Helen clark would’ve said ?

          • Colonial Viper 14.2.2.1.1

            Note how Key designed his statement to fit what he thought his audience would want to hear.

            • higherstandard 14.2.2.1.1.1

              Crikey a politician who fits statements to what they think the audience wants to hear…. we’re through the looking glass here people.

              • Colonial Viper

                Last thing we need is a poodle for PM, don’t you agree? How about someone who can keep his trap shut for 30 mins until he finds out what is actually going on?

                • higherstandard

                  I don’t know – if there’s a choice between Key, Goff and a standard poodle I’d give the poodle a tack at election time.

        • joe bloggs 14.2.2.2

          there’s a test of reasonableness that can be applied to Key’s comments.

          In light of the two al Qaeda suspects that are in Norwegian jails awaiting charges on a terror plot hatched in Norway, and in light of claims made by the “Helpers of Global Jihad”, which claimed initial credit for the bombing, and the claims by Ansar al-Islam taking the credit for the bombing on some jihadist web sites, then Key’s comments are entirely reasonable.

          Whereas the claim of sickening opportunism made by this post’s author are unreasonable and a sickeningly opportunistic attempt to make some political capital from Key’s comments.

          • Zetetic 14.2.2.2.1

            key saw an opportunity to use this tragedy for his political gain, giving him cover for the afghan deployment. that wouldn’t have necessarily made sense even if the bombers were islamists.

            • felix 14.2.2.2.1.1

              “that wouldn’t have necessarily made sense even if the bombers were islamists”

              You’re splitting hairs there Z. All them Arabs is just Arabs, no matter what part of Arabastan they’re from.

          • felix 14.2.2.2.2

            There’s a test of bullshit-ness too.

            Key failed it.

          • Draco T Bastard 14.2.2.2.3

            You claim there’s a test and then don’t apply it to one side, merely assert that Whereas the claim of sickening opportunism made by this post’s author is true. If we apply you “test” to Jonkey’s actions in going for photo ops at disasters (Pike river, Chch) and then doing nothing about those disasters (admitting that our safety standards are not up to Australia’s and then not upping ours to meet those standards etc) it can be shown that you’re wrong. Jonkey did engage in opportunism as that’s what he does.

          • Murray 14.2.2.2.4

            What do you expect from these clowns.
            The level of hysteria and attempted muckraking on the standard seems to be in direct proportion to Goffs slide in the polls, all rather pathetic .

      • McFlock 14.2.3

        An opportunistic blog about an opportunistic comment about a freaking tragedy is sickenly opportunistic, so a blog about said blog would probably be only mildly nauseating.

    • Puddleglum 14.3

      Sorry James, but your post (on your blog) misses the obvious aspect of the opportunism.

      The ‘If’ in John Key’s statement actually makes the opportunism clear yet you seem to think the presence of the ‘if’ somehow makes Key’s comments reasonable??!!

      The point of this post, as I understand it, is that he didn’t have to speculate on the cause at that stage and the fact that he did – by employing the speculative ‘if’ when no speculation was called for -suggests that he saw an opportunity to defend his government’s stance on continuing deployment in Afghanistan that he intended to take advantage of. 

      Think about it for a moment. It’s a classic case of opportunism and, what is worse, opportunism before the facts are in. The ‘if’ pretty much nails the opportunism.

  15. Jim Grant 15

    I trust DonKey will also be giving Obama advise on the debt crisis – no more taxes and deeper cuts to gov spending – come on John – show us what you are really made of .

  16. Tom Gould 16

    I must admit to cringling somewhat over Key’s comments when watching the BBC early this morning. The President, on the other hand, was very careful not to characterise the event too precisely until genuine facts come to light. No such caution from Key, who of course, is more used to dealing with a craven and sycophantic bunch of buddies masquerading as the press gallery, mates he knows will cover for his ineptitude and foolishness.

    • Sookie 16.1

      Linking a rightwing christian fundie nutjob to Afghanistan and the usual terrorist boogymen was indeed pathetic, but to be fair he wasn’t possessed of the full facts at the time. But that doesn’t excuse the fact that he’s the most embarrassing PM, ever. He shouldn’t be let out of the country to talk to more dignified, intelligent leaders/journos.

      • felix 16.1.1

        “to be fair he wasn’t possessed of the full facts at the time”

        Then that’s what he should have fucking well said.

        But no, he has to be seen as Johnny on the spot, mates with the movers and shakers, got the inside scoop on what’s going down.

        Except he doesn’t and he looks a callous, ignorant fool.

        • handle 16.1.1.1

          Key and McCully crave approval from the big boys. The spineless sucking up will continue until they leave office.

      • mickysavage 16.1.2

        but to be fair he wasn’t possessed of the full facts at the time

        So he should have STFU until he learned the full facts.

        He did not.

        He is a pillock. 

        EDIT what Felix said.

  17. Carol 17

    Actually, I think Key was just following Obama’s line and that of the intitial news reports. Of course I think Obama’s response was more subtle, and, yes, more careful.

    I was watching the continuous coverage of the bombing and shootings in Norway on Al Jazeera early this morning. I must say, I was kinda convinced at the time by the continual linkage of the bombings and shootings with Al Qaeda or something similar, as you can see from my comment on Open Mike – the #1 comment today. That line was constantly emphasised by the Al Jazeera reporters & commenators they highlighted.

    There was an early report that the guy arrested was a blond Norwegian, then the authorities seemed to withdraw that comment. But one “expert” said it was possibly homegrown terrorism, but it could also be a local AQ recruit, and he thought a non-Norwegian terrorist group was more likely.

    Then, in the middle of all that, AJ went live to the statement by Obama with John Key sitting there beside him saying nothing – maybe Obama told Key he’d do the talking?

    Obama first talked about the important relationship between NZ & the US and gave a summary of the things he and Key had discussed and agreed on. There was a constant clicking of cameras – probably a full contingent of international reporters wanting some Obama statement on Norway. Eventually Obama obliged and referred to the Oslo bombings, and then said, in fact, that he an Key had just been talking about the need for international support against terrorism.

    So I’m guessing, Key’s comments on Afghanistan came from this statement by Obama, which was alluding to NZ support in Afghanistan.

    In later repeats of Obama’s statement, AJ cut out most of the references to NZ except for the line saying he an Key had just been talking about the terrorism issue and the need for international solidarity.

    So, if Key was guilty of racism, I guess I was too, in not thinking more critcally about the AJ coverage. I do think Key was being opportunistic with his Obama photo op & related Norway coverage, but not sickeningly so.

    My immediate response was, that we do not need to be linked to the US and it’s dirty little wars and counter-“terrorist” activities, and I don’t like the way Key is jumping into that area and that he is keen to involve NZ in it.

    • devon 17.1

      The war on terror is a fake war on behalf of Israel, America and the elites ( including the Bankers) against Muslims with an eye to weakening them to assume dominance of the region. For anyone who hasn’t heard about “The Project for The New American Century” go take a look at this short ABC news report about the group who dominated the Bush administration and their aims for middle east domination.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCPLHlF_3lE

      They state that this battle may go on for our entire lifetime and that america will use all its resources not just military. This is rare honesty on Main Stream Media. The shock of the honesty pales in comparison to what is been declared. Please get this information out to anyone who will listen.

      Also Go watch the BBC documetary “The Power Of Nightmares” on youtube for more reality about Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is widely used slang for “the Toilet” in Arabic. Hard to imagine why anyone would join a terror organisation called the toilet and clearly made up by someone who didn’t understand musch about the middle east.

    • Puddleglum 17.2

      Good comment Carol, although I’d be surprised if Key and Obama were watching Al-Jazeera during their meeting.

      Maybe the briefings to the President are based on Al-Jazeera reports or media reports in general? That would be disturbing in and of itself – at least to me. It would give major media even more ‘clout’ than even I thought they had. I had assumed that ‘our leaders’ would have sought out official information directly (e.g., from the local police investigation) and based their comments on that, especially over such a sensitive incident. Otherwise, our leaders may as well just be another twitter thread.

      • Carol 17.2.1

        Puddleglum, I agree with what you say. I wasn’t meaning that Key & Obama got their info from the media, but that the media were clearly all over it and wanting Obama’s reaction. I would have thought in such a situation politicians would be looking to the intelligence briefings before fronting the media. My point was, Key would surely have known the extent of the tragedy at that point.

  18. Hollyfield 18

    If you’re going to condemn Mr Key, you had better condemn Mr Goff as well. Have a look at what he’s reported to have said (on the TVNZ website). By the way, I’ve cut and pasted this – the typos are not mine.

    Giff said the attackes were “all the more appalling” given Norway’s prominent peace keeping position in the global arena.

    “Norway hosted and worked hard to negotiate the Oslo Accords in an attempt to resolve the on-going Israel-Palestine conflict, and made a huge effort in its work to find peace in war embattled Sri Lanka,” he said.

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      Goff talked about the generous international nature of Norway.

      Key talked about his own call to keep soldiers fighting in Afghanistan.

      • rosy 18.1.1

        And from the same press release…. “Our profound condolences go to the families of all those killed or injured in these attacks and while it is important those responsible are brought to justice we must not to jump to conclusions about the identity of the perpetrators,” Maryan Street said.

        It looks like they took a little time to contact people before commenting.

    • Hollyfield.

      What the?

      That is really really weak.  When in doubt a RWNJ says “oh Goff did it too” … 

  19. Tigger 19

    Idiot.

  20. Key, of course, has been sickeningly opportunistic, but not that bad.

    Zetetic has been sickeningly opportunistic with this post. Quite bad.

    • McFlock 20.1

      I note you didn’t miss an opportunity to point this out…

      • Pete George 20.1.1

        At least you’re not trying to say I’m sitting on the fence.
        Should I not speak up on something I feel strongly about?

        • felix 20.1.1.1

          Funny, the only thing you ever seem to have a strong opinion on is that no-one should criticise your glorious leader.

          • Pete George 20.1.1.1.1

            Get fucked felix, what’s happened in Norway is bloody awful and doesn’t deserve being use as an excuse for cheap shots.

            • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1.1.1

              Yeah, tell it to John Key, Mr George.

              It appears that dozens of members of the equivalent of our NZ Young Labour died in the island massacre.

              So this is a tragic loss for the Left in Scandanavia, and a severe blow to the future of Norwegian politics. Members of the NZ Labour Party stand with Norway in solidarity.

              • Why don’t you show some respect in solidarity and just leave it at that. It would show you were genuine rather than transferring your bitchiness to someone who had nothing to do with what happened.

                • felix

                  Key has “nothing to do with” the words that come out of his mouth?

                  Jeez Pete, your usual sycophancy is one thing but you’ve moved into outright idol worship with that line.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Why don’t you show some respect in solidarity and just leave it at that.

                  What would you know about solidarity you little ACT aparatchik?

                • Why don’t you say “Key fcuked up”?

            • Redbaron77 20.1.1.1.1.2

              I am going to have to go with Pete George. JK was unaware of the full extent of the terrible events at Utoeya when he made his statement following the bombing in Oslo. While this post may have had a valid case in questioning JK’s motives at the time, it has appeared increasingly misframed as the full picture of Utoeya has emerged during the day. The memory of the 80 plus young people who died in such a terrible way would be better served by suspending the ensuing debate.

              • Thanks, and a decent comment here.

                And yes, a good idea, I’m suspending any more comment here.

              • Colonial Viper

                The memory of the 80 plus young people who died in such a terrible way would be better served by suspending the ensuing debate.

                Because suspending debate is what members of a Youth Labour movement would have wanted their memory to be, especially when their governmental and democratic institutions were under attack, and they were made fatal victims of a political statement.

                Total fraking Bullshit. I’ll bet if those people who were on that island are anything like the people I know from Young Labour in NZ, they would not want democratic debate silenced and to let terror defeat democracy by stupid sentimental timidity.

                A crisis demands democratic debate, not some kind of stunned sentimental silence. Failing to do so means that the outcomes and direction of a crisis can turnout very bad indeed.

                I am going to have to go with Pete George. JK was unaware of the full extent of the terrible events at Utoeya when he made his statement following the bombing in Oslo.

                Then Key should have stayed fucking silent, instead of trying to grab media time in Washington.

                • RedLogix

                  You contribute one hell of a lot to this site CV… much of it I enjoy reading because we do think more or less along similar lines.

                  For a while there the sheer sadness of this tragedy prompted my natural instinct to STFU in the face of the incomprehensible. Like others I was beginning to feel it was too soon to have this debate.

                  But every now and then CV you say something that changes my mind totally. This is the ultimate political act. Silence is not the response. Look at the committment from the activists in Syria, at least 2000 of them killed in recent months… and they too have refused to be silenced.

                  So yes if the emotions are a little raw for us, imagine how they must be in Norway right now. But the people who have been murdered today ALL wanted to make a difference, they sought change, they wanted something better for our future.

                  Certainly they deserved better. We merely insult their memory if we acquiese in the motives of the man who killed them. He wanted to silence them.. we refuse him.

                  Emphatically.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Thank you RL. Indeed, there will be a time for grieving and remembrance. And this is not it. You can only honour the dead by being true to their ideals.

                    The RWNJs would love nothing more than silencing an opportunity for collective debate, shutting down a chance to understand what these events mean. The US version of this shutdown uses appeals to patriotism and symbolism, denouncing the asking of difficult questions or voicing of doubt as being ‘unpatriotic’ or ‘un-American’.

                    4 or 5 years ago I wouldn’t have given more than a seconds thought a day to NZ politics. Finding The Standard has helped to politicise my thinking, to understand a NZ which was right under my nose but somehow always obscured to me.

                    As individuals we are fragile but as a collective we are mighty.

                    The question I ask myself now is, how to wake up those who are still asleep like I was asleep; those who dream fitfully of a better life and a better NZ but somehow cannot find a way to rise up to it through the heavy blankets of distorted MSM messages and self centred personal struggles.

                    The sleepers must awaken.

                    • Redbaron77

                      I did not state that JK’s comments should not be debated but given the scale of the tragedy that it should be suspended. During Saturday we learned that over 80 young Labour activists in Norway lost their lives for following their political beliefs. However looking through this post this reality appeared to have by-passed some of the commentary; which came across as inappropriate mainly because the timing was incorrect. Fortunately The Standard has launched a post commemorating those taken away which will provide us with an opportunity to grieve their passing…

              • felix

                If he didn’t know, he should have said he didn’t know. This is a serious matter he’s commenting on.

                The useless bastard thinks he’s still on Wall Street where “baffling them with bullshit” is an acceptable way to negotiate unknown territory.

                Not good enough Mr Key.

              • JK was unaware of the full extent of the terrible events at Utoeya when he made his statement following the bombing in Oslo

                So why did he even open his mouth?

                • Carol

                  The press conference I saw live around 7-8am this morning, with Key and Obama and a loud clatter of cameras constantly clicking, really did indicate Key & Obama were fully aware of the extent of the tragedy in Norway, and of the massive flow of news media interest in it.

                • jackal

                  Perhaps Key’s statement about something he apparently had little intel on and jumping to conclusions says more than the actual comment itself.

                  But if Shonkey had full knowledge concerning the attack and who undertook it, the comment is totally despicable!

                  “I know who killed those Norwegians, but will use it to justify a war in Afghanistan.”

                  Discussing John Key’s stupidity does not disrespect the dead. People who make unfounded statements concerning the perpetrator of this horrendous crime to try and justify their own policies, shows disrespect.

                  If anything, such occurrences should increase debate. Closing down dissent is the occupation of fascists!

                • Blue

                  Same reason you do pal, because you like the sound of your own voice. The difference between you both is Key doesn’t live on the fringes with 2% support of the population and is boring as bat shit. Most people actually like the guy.

                • mik e

                  He couldn,t resist a smile and wave as he was free baseing on power

              • “JK was unaware of the full extent of the terrible events at Utoeya when he made his statement following the bombing in Oslo.”

                Which is why the statement was opportunistic.

                Look, I don’t like the fact that people’s gruesome deaths have ramifications – some important, some insignificant – far and wide around the globe. But they do. One consequence is that, for all the world’s ‘leaders’, it represents yet another test of their character and judgment. I see absolutely no reason why Key’s response to this tragedy should not be scrutinised, especially when his comment connects it with actions taken by a military force in a foreign land.

                If Key wants to use innocent deaths to justify a force being in a country thousands of miles from where those deaths occurred – and a force that even the President of that country has repeatedly castigated for the innocent deaths it has caused in his country – then that justification needs to be scrutinised. 

        • McFlock 20.1.1.2

          The one time you do state an opinion you’re hypocritical about it. If Z feels strongly about sickening opportunism, by your values Z can’t comment on it. However, if you are disgusted by what you see as Z’s opportunism, you can’t be criticisted for commenting on it?
           
          Or is it opportunism if lefties do it, but not if you or shonkey make a comment?

          • Pete George 20.1.1.2.1

            I didn’t say he can’t comment on it. I said his post was sickeningly opportunistic.

            What is your opinion on his headline?

            • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.2.1.1

              You spend time attacking a random low level blogger for being ‘opportunistic’ and yet give the PM of NZ a full pass.

              Just bloody typical of you.

              • I didn’t give the PM any sort of a pass. You and felix have decided to paint that from absolutely no facts, which is how you both often to operate.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Sure you’ve given the PM a pass: by not accusing him of the same opportunism and instread attacking some kind of part time lowly blogger.

                  (heh no disrespect Z you are a top hand)

                • McFlock

                  Number of comments you’ve made criticising key’s response?
                  Number of comments you’ve made criticising Z’s response to key’s response?
                   
                  In my opinion you’re a damned hypocrite. Key was wrong to make it about NZ’s involvement in Afghanistan, Zetetic pointed that out, with context of other governments blaming those groups whose spectre would most conveniently assist government policy. And if Zetetic was wrong to point this out so soon, you are also wrong in your rush to your boyfriend’s defense.

                • felix

                  Nine comments from Pete George in 2 hours.

                  Most of them critical of the post.

                  None of them critical of John Key.

                  That’s a full pass, Pete.

    • joe bloggs 20.2

      whereas Phil has been truly statesmanlike – hasn’t mentioned Afganistan at all – just the Israel-Palestine conflict and embattled Sri Lanka. Spot the difference.

      • Colonial Viper 20.2.1

        Hey Key mentioned Sri Lanka too, he told those refugees to fuck off last week, remember? How’s that for “statesman like”?

  21. devon 21

    Goff is an idiot. Maybe a quick change of leader would be wise. Is there any sensible person in the labour party. We have a choice between really evil and stupid National and “not quite so evil but almost as stupid labour”. I think I’ll go lie down as I’ve got a headache

    • devon you are a ghoul.  So Key making this appalling statement is Goff’s fault?  I am not sure why I should waste the bandwidth on this comment.

      • devon 21.1.1

        Mickysavage

        Granted that was a little unfair, but Goff also sometimes makes unfitting comments for effect and usually pays for them. Key says whatever crap he likes and the media faun and excuse him. He is 100 times worse I know.

        • mickysavage 21.1.1.1

          devon

          Agreed that Goff is not perfect and Key says whatever crap he likes …

          • Blue 21.1.1.1.1

            Subtle difference micky, citizens of a country usually want to hear from their Prime Minister, however in moments of crisis, they couldn’t give a fuck about an opposition leader who is a dead man walking and looking for a media moment. Would you have it that Leaders of countries remain silent at times like this? Of course not.

            • Campbell Larsen 21.1.1.1.1.1

              ‘looking for a media moment’
              …even as prime mincer – he normally calls me john – ‘keys’ (ha ha ha) sucks super power cock while grinning like a fool…hypocrisy much?
              The only thing I want to hear from shonky is his resignation speech, the man is an embarrasment to NZ

            • mik e 21.1.1.1.1.2

              dead man walking just another bullying abusive right wing comment that is the sort expression this nut case right winger blogged about on the internet. I don,t mind criticism wit satire but abuse when 92 people have died that are of left wing killed by an extreme right winger.The right are trying too make mileage out of it is sick Key has appologized said he didn,t mean to offend anyone lets leave it at that. BLUE there is only one % point between the two blocks at the moment so its not only incorrect but given that 92 labour people have died using terms like you have is far worse than what John Key said .And John has opologized maybe you should to

  22. gobsmacked 22

    I think we can agree that Zetetic shouldn’t be Prime Minister. Let’s all pile on if pigs fly and he gets the job.

    In the meantime, how about the one we’ve got?

    Three times in recent days, Key has mouthed off when he had no facts. 1) SAS at Kabul hotel, 2) Israel/SIS spy story, and 3) Oslo massacre.

    Worse, each time he’s done it overseas, which just attracts more publicity – and embarrassment.

    What is “leftie” about simply wanting the Prime Minister to … act like a Prime Minister? Is that really too much to ask?

    • If that was simply all that was being done, fair enough, but trying to use a tragedy to smear him is despicable, even for political prats.

      • felix 22.1.1

        “Using a tragedy to smear him” apparently means quoting his own words and pointing out how stupid, offensive, racist, amateur, and un-pm-like he is to have said them in the context of these events.

        Oh no I said racist! That means I’m being racist against racists!

    • Colonial Viper 22.2

      What is “leftie” about simply wanting the Prime Minister to … act like a Prime Minister? Is that really too much to ask?

      Seems that a lot of New Zealanders just want a PM who can talk shit with the hosts on The Rock.

      • Samuel Hill 22.2.1

        Thats democracy for ya.

        • Colonial Viper 22.2.1.1

          Nope. Its a shallow fast food version of a democracy. And why would you support that?

          Its nothing like ‘democracy’ or ‘freedom’ that the Ancient Greeks would recognise.

          • higherstandard 22.2.1.1.1

            EH what are you suggesting we all go ancient greek on each other ?

      • davidc 22.2.2

        Westie munter Rock listeners are voters too!

    • Carol 22.3

      The most striking thing about Key’s Photo Op with Obama today was that Key was totally silent and looked out of his depth. He is cringingly embarrassing for NZ. And I hope that before too long we get a PM again who has the nouse & gravitas that fits the office.

      • Colonial Viper 22.3.1

        Steven Joyce?

        😛

        • Carol 22.3.1.1

          Ha! ooo. A parody of a PM with savvy & statesmanly demeanour? Ermmm…. can someone who keeps pursuing holiday highways of national significance be said to have the nouse befitting a PM. He may have a smalmy kind of gravitas, but doesn’t seem very PM material to me…… but that doesn’t mean he won’t be PM, just not a good one.

  23. queenstfarmer 23

    This irony is that this article has done what it falsely accuses the PM of doing. What a disgrace and an insult to the Norwegians.

    BTW I see that Phil Goff made the perfectly reasonable link between the attack and Norway’s international involvement on TVNZ.

  24. joe90 24

    A google translation of a Norwegian blog post with a photograph and some interesting but unverified information on Anders Behring Breivik.

    Anders Behring Breivik has previously driven the blog Fjordman and later for many years been a writer for the anti-Muslim and Zionist bloggers Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch, under the pseudonym Fjordman.

    On July 17, released Anders Behring Breivik a message on Twitter where he writes that “One person with a belief is Equal To The force of 100,000 WHO Have only not raised.”

    • jackal 24.1

      Interesting considering Norway was apparently allowing a Palestinian Embassy to be built, and the Israeli’s had strongly opposed it. Could this be the work of Mosad agents and what are the implications for New Zealand if we ever built a Palestinian Embassy here?

      It certainly makes John Key’s recent attempt at a cover up concerning possible Mosad agents attaining false passports from New Zealand again seem rather poignant!

      So much for Al Qaeda being to blame huh! Quick, re-write those articles you right wing lackeys!

  25. Tiger Mountain 25

    The “Prime Minister” of New Zealand, Shonkey, is a bloody disgrace.

  26. gobsmacked 26

    To those defending Key (or trying diversion tactics), could you please answer these simple questions …

    Do you think Key was correct in drawing a link between this horrific massacre in Norway, and Afghanistan?

    If so, can you please explain the link? Were the deaths today in some way affected by NZ having troops in Afghanistan? How?

    If not, do you think Key should withdraw and apologise? If not, why not?

    Genuine questions. Answers welcome.

    • Anne 26.1

      The silence is golden. Any chance of it continuing ad infinitum?

    • Dan 26.2

      I do suspect there was a genuine confusion in where blame lay, it also seemed to extend to the media as well. I noted that one of our major websites ran the headline “Hints Attacks May Not Be Islamic” or word to that effect. I have a simple question – what suggested they were? I mean intelligence operatives obviously made the same mistake, but this was at about 3pm this afternoon, and it also didn’t fit in with any known previous Al Qaeda MO. While I can understand a Prime Minister getting bad advice (in as much as the advice should be better), I want to know why our media just assumed it was ‘Islamic’ – and don’t even get me started on the phrase ‘Islamic’ as an inference on a whole religion.

      • Carol 26.2.1

        Al Jazeera, which doesn’t always/usually take an anti-Islamic line, was running with Al Qaeda as being the most likely suspect from about 6am to 8am this morning. Part of the problem was that such an attack in Norway was totally out of step with most people’s view of the country.

        Also, most people on AJ were saying there must have been at least 3 or 4 perps involved to pull off the bombing and shooting at around the same time. So they were thinking in terms of some sort of well-organised group.

        • rosy 26.2.1.1

          I was watching on SkyNews UK and they were very careful to continue noting that there were 4 possible threat sources; a mullah who said he would kill people if he was deported and Norway is in the process of deporting him, Gadaffi because of Norway’s ‘enthusiastic’ intervention in Libya, Islamic extremism over reprinting a couple of the Danish cartoons and local, extremely violent right-wing fanaticism.

          So it definitely wasn’t universally assumed early on that it was an Islamic plot

  27. Carol 27

    Part of the problem for Key, I imagine, is that he finally got his photo op with Obama, only to find it was overshadowed by news coming out of Norway. I imagine he was trying to make a statement to skew the focus back to himself & his agenda in the US.

    I noticed that NZ Herald and Stuff this morning also tried to keep Key-meets-Obama as their top headline long after international news media had gone into over-drive on Norway. They didn’t have anything on Norway on those 2 sites for quite a long time, and even then Stuff kept the Key-Obama item at the top.

    • jackal 27.1

      You’re not wrong there Carol. Perhaps they had already written the articles prior to the meeting. Even Kiwi’s abroad noticed that New Zealand was very slow on reporting the Norway bombings and shootings. That overshadowing or bad luck if you like is starting to become a common occurrence, and I’m thinking Key is bad luck.

      The stupid statement of Key aside, I don’t think that many New Zealander’s are all that enamored with Obama’s position, considering what America has been up to. It would seem that John Key’s smile and wave campaign is unraveling before the snake oil has even dried. First the Royals tell Key they wont visit because they don’t want to be seen supporting National, now the Obama meeting is overshadowed by the US debt crisis and Norway bombing and killings, and rightly so.

      I wonder what could go wrong with the RWC? Perhaps some security guards cleansing the streets of the homeless caught on tape or too many pigs with their snouts in the trough might be the death knell of the National party, which has been nothing but a crying disaster for New Zealand from the get go.

  28. Hamish Saunders 28

    Considering this site purports to crack down on partisan trolls, it’s ironic that this author is the worst sort of partisan troll. I can’t believe how deluded and out of touch this moron is. At least Farrar attempts to be impartial in some areas. Not everything warrants an attack on Key.

    [This thread is about Key’s very own words, words he has uttered on a global stage. What the PM says will be scrutinised. Attempting to drag the moderators into this, in a deluded and out of touch attempt to to silence the debate… will not be indulged in….RL]

  29. Terry 29

    I guess it has all been said. Please, in rightly pointing at the frightful Key, look too at the dreadful Obama letting down his own people and the world. He oiled all over Key who seems to much enjoy licking up such oil. We are supposed to gawk with wonder that crisis ridden (deservedly) Obama gave Mr KEYS 35 minutes precious time. I guess it was like a little vacation for Obama meeting with this MINNOW. America is the most terrorist nation the world has known whilst they (with people like ourselves) scapegoat the Muslims. This interview showed us two scumbags imagining they are being lionised. You should hear what my American friends have to day about their devious President, but no, I do not wish to use bad language. I admit to my shame that I too was taken in by the fact that Obama is “black”, even more by his skills in oratory (or better, rhetoric). No longer!

  30. Cassie 30

    My heart goes out to all those involved in these terrible atrocities.

    What any politician of any hue said about it anywhere?
    Who cares?

    Do you think the victims’ families or those who escaped the gunman are going to lose sleep over what Key or Goff or anyone else said or didn’t say?

    • Zetetic 30.1

      Of course they don’t care. But we should care that our PM is the kind of person who would exploit a tragedy like that.

      • Tigger 30.1.1

        I care that Key’s first thought was brown nosing Obama rather than doing what you’ve done and sent out condolances to those who’ve been affected by such an evil act.

  31. Anne 31

    I admit to my shame that I too was taken in by the fact that Obama is “black”, even more by his skills in oratory (or better, rhetoric). No longer!

    I am starting to feel the same way Terry.
    Obama’s boot licking this morning (our time) was sickening. He described Key(s) in the following terms “ always intelligent and thoughtful”. God forbid. Where did he get that from?

    But the big eye-opener (in my view) was his comment about ChCh. He talked of America still being “broken hearted for ChCh”. That has to be the most insincere sentiment from a super-power leader that I have ever heard!

    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      He talked of America still being “broken hearted for ChCh” .

      I’m sure many Americans thought that he meant the Christchurch in Scandanavia, near where NZ is?

      Yes, exactly.

    • Afewknowthetruth 31.2

      Obama was sponsored into office by the same corporations that backed McCain. Tne corporations don’t care which party is in office: they control both.

      Obama lost all credibility one week after taking office, when he opened up a new war front. We are not sure how many wars the US is fighting now -some say 5 some say 6. All of them are connected with oil, of course. Orwell had it right: ‘war is peace, ignorance is strength, freedon is slavery’.

      No need for the US to attack Saudi Arabia though and liberate the people there. The Saudis are doing a great job of repressing the people and don’t need Western help (other than weapons bought with petrodollars):

      The Indpendent reports:

      Saudi Arabia’s new law would make political dissent a crime
      Kingdom’s ‘anti-terror’ legislation follows wave of upheavals across the Arab world

      By Patrick Cockburn

      Saturday, 23 July 2011

      The Saudi authorities have drafted new anti-terrorism legislation that makes political dissent a criminal offence and would enable the government to jail anyone who questioned the integrity of the King or Crown Prince for a minimum of 10 years.

      A draft copy smuggled from the kingdom and obtained by Amnesty International shows that the definition of “terrorist crimes” under the proposed new law is so broad as to enable the authorities to detain anybody for as long as they want on such wide-ranging charges as “endangering… national unity” or “harming the reputation of the state or its position”.

  32. Craig Glen Eden 32

    Keys a disgrace theirs no doubt he has never been worthy of the job, his response is further proof of that in this situation, simply he is out of his depth.

    My thoughts go out to the parents and families that have lost their children today. That could have have been my son at that conference, shit its so bad its beyond belief. How could some one do this to all those young people. What ever the killers political/religious/racists bents, his actions today are just pure evil.

    RIP young Labour souls.

  33. Windy.City.Struggler 33

    I’d like to add my support for those whose hearts sank
    to hear the latest prime ministerial utterance, and convey
    my condolences to the relatives of the deceased.

  34. Budgieboy 34

    [Deleted pointless abuse….RL]

  35. Luc Hansen 35

    I don’t have time to read all the comments above, so I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but on the Bill O’Reilly show this afternoon (hosted on Fridays by the gorgeous but raving mad Laura Ingraham) the blame was immediately placed on Muslims and that was followed by a piece on the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, although it is neither at Ground Zero nor a mosque: it is, in fact, a Lower Manhatten community centre.

    And I also found JK’s comments obscene. As in obscenely opportunistic.

    He said something like if it is a global terror attack then it shows we are not immune to terrorism ourselves.

    We now know it was not a global Muslim plot, so does that mean we are now immune and can drop all those anti-terrorist laws that take the freedom out of being Kiwi?

    I suspect not.

    There must be something under those beds…

  36. Windy.City.Struggler 36

    yeah, reds.

  37. Afewknowthetruth 37

    According to the commonly accepted definition, fascism is the melding of the government sector, the military sector and the business sector.

    John Key’s actions in sending NZ troops to Afghanistan to facilitate the contruction of oil and gas pipelines and to facilitate looting of resources by western corporations are the actions of a fascist. Helen Clark was also a fascist, of course.

    (Please. please please don’t tell me we are there to promote human rights, freedom and democracy, otherwise I will have ask why we have not invaded Saudi Arabia, which has a far worse record than Afghanistan. It couldn’t be anything to do with oil, could it?)

  38. QoT 38

    It’s pretty fucking simple, for everyone crying “Goff did it too!” et cetera …

    When Key was asked about it, his first instinct was to talk about himself (his administration / his defence policy).

    When Goff was asked about it, his first instinct was to talk about Norway.

    I’ve had precious little regard for Goff’s instincts in the past but I’m interested to see how y’all want to argue against them on this occasion.

    • Bill 38.1

      Key’s narcissism aside.

      Political leaders of all stripes are in the habit of connecting domestic incidents to international situations. And even when (as is usually the case) the international context won’t hold water, they use the incident to justify passing regressive policies within their own country in the name of security anyway.

      I just ‘love’ being an enemy of interests that treat me as such but won’t overtly state me as such.

  39. Afewknowthetruth 39

    In this Orwellian world, when you want to invade a nation economically and steal their oil, the first thing you do is send in the ‘defence’ force.

    That was a very clever move changing the name of the war department to ‘defence’.

    Oil addiction now requires more or less constant military intervention. And as peak oil starts to really bite matters must get inevitably worse.

  40. Sean 40

    [all caps rant – deleted. You’re welcome to comment. But not like that. Eddie]

  41. Glenn 41

    Amazing what an effect you can have by half quoting the Prime Minister, cutting out the all-important “if” clause, trying to paint his own stance on this tragedy in a certain light, and then trying to use it for political gain – while accusing him of using the events in question for political gain.

    ” “If it is an act of global terrorism then I think what it shows is that no country, large or small, is immune from that risk,” Mr Key said.”

    Of course, if it’s not an act of global terrorism, then this doesn’t apply. But you’ve hidden that from your readers by snipping out the inconvenient bits.

    How about giving some context in future eh? Because if that’s “the standard” of honesty you use, you need to lift your standards.

    • Pascal's bookie 41.1

      Glenn, it’s the ‘if’ that shows how opportunistic he was being. Are you saying that he didn’t use the event to shore up support for his Afghanistan policy? It seems pretty clear to me that he did.

      As it is, I wonder what lessons can be drawn from the event? None I suppose. Because when Christian conservatives shoot people, they are just isolated mad people.

      • Glenn 41.1.1

        PB, so, no comment on why the “if” was sneakily edited out eh? Telling. I suppose no honest reason could be given, so I don’t blame you for not trying to offer one.

        Contrary to what you say, any fair person can see that the “if” clause was very important. At the time of Key’s comment, it was even less clear than it is now on why this tragedy happened. As such, bombings and shootings were quite naturally associated with terrorism (whou’da though?). In that context, it was entirely fair for key to comment on his thoughts IF this was indeed part of wider terrorist operations.

        That the author of this glorified blog entry chose to deliberately hide this part of the quote and then spin the comment for political ends is pretty disgraceful. But not surprising. 

        • Colonial Viper 41.1.1.1

          Key made a fool of NZ on the world stage, and that’s not an IF, he actually did it.

        • Pascal's bookie 41.1.1.2

          How is the ‘if clause’ at all important to the question of whether Key was using the event to support his Afghanistan policy?

          I note you didn’t comment about whether or not he did that. ‘Telling’ etc.

          Also note you didn’t offer any lessons that could be learned from did happen, and that you seem to think that this wasn’t terrorism, or part of any pattern of such terrorist acts worldwide. Presumably because only muslims do that. ‘Telling’ etc.

          • Glenn 41.1.1.2.1

            “How is the ‘if clause’ at all important to the question of whether Key was using the event to support his Afghanistan policy?”

            In the way that I have just explained to you. Why would I repeat it? The comment was made when the motive was even less clear than it was now, and the possibility that this was part of a wider terrorist activity was a real one. In that context, it was quite fair for Mr key to take that possibility into account and point out that if this was the case, then it shows that many nations are at risk from such things, which is why New Zealand does what it does.

            Now I have helped you a second time, how about we even the score by you being a bit more forthcoming: How do you feel about blog authors who deliberately chop out parts of sentences to give a different impression about what a public figure said? Are you OK with that, as long as the political goal is the right one in your view?

            • Colonial Viper 41.1.1.2.1.1

              Hey Mr Astroturfer, our PM let us down on the international media stage and all you can do is wail on a lowly blog item?

              In that context, it was quite fair for Mr key to take that possibility into account and point out that if this was the case, then it shows that many nations are at risk from such things, which is why New Zealand does what it does.

              You mean it was quite fair for Key to come up with a fantasy scenario to justify our soldiers continuing fighting in Afghanistan?

              You know, a sort of “IF this terrorist attack happens to justify what we have already decided to do, our decision will obviously be justified”?

              Seriously go away.

              • Glenn

                “You mean it was quite fair for Key to come up with a fantasy scenario to justify our soldiers continuing fighting in Afghanistan?”

                Fantasy? Again, I have addressed this.

                “Seriously go away.”

                As you wish. Don’t let me rain on this parade of dishonesty and partisan hackery. But don’t pretend it’s anything else.

                • Pascal's bookie

                  Mote/eye.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Don’t let me rain on this parade of dishonesty and partisan hackery. But don’t pretend it’s anything else.

                  Hey dude I am a keen proponent of partisan hackery. Just like you are. So what’s your point?

            • Pascal's bookie 41.1.1.2.1.2

              How do you feel about blog authors who deliberately chop out parts of sentences to give a different impression about what a public figure said?

              I think you are begging the question there Glenn. I don’t think the missing if clause changes the meaning of what Key did, which was to use the event to support his Afghanistan policy.

              Firstly, I didn’t think it was at all reasonable to assume, “OMG MUSLIMS!!!1!” when I heard about the attack. Your persistent stated assumption that it was hides a lot.

              While it may have been an impulse for many people to think that, the fact is that Key just came out and said it. Yes, he used ‘if’, But so what? That doesn’t change the fact that he used the event as a platform to launch a defence of his Afghanistan policy. All it does is show that he did so while even he knew that he didn’t have a hold of the facts and that he was working off assumptions. So how does that mean that he wasn’t making an impulsive and opportunistic use of the event for political ends?

              • Glenn

                And now it’s all out – You think John key was bagging Muslims. Sorry, the race and religion card cannot be played.

                I see you have no defence of chopping out parts of people’s sentences when quoting people. That says a lot. You’re in good company here!

                • Pascal's bookie

                  Umm, What?

                  You might want to look at your presuppositions about what you class as terrorism in your comments on this thread Glenn.

                  • Glenn

                    Of course – because thinking that bombings and mass shootings might be linked to terrorism is just crazy. Obviously.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      Of course they are terrorism Glenn.

                      There was never a question that these events were ‘linked to terrorism’. They were acts of terrorism. It’s as simple a tautology as one can think of to say that ‘acts of terrorism are linked to terrorism’.

                    • Glenn

                      Excellent. So we agree that I’m right in what I “class as terrorism.” Sweet.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      Only if you’ve come around. Preciously you’ve implied that Key initially thought (in error, but reasonably so) it might be related to terrorism, and that this was only natural.

                      Implying that terrorism equals ‘muslims blowing things up’

                    • Glenn

                      Muslims? Interesting that you should freely choose to bring them into it, PB. I never did.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      No Glenn. You’re a sophist. And as such, boring.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Key let the whole country down by choosing to open his mouth even when he knew nothing about the Norwegian situation.

                  This was especially true an hour or so later when actual facts were emerging and it became clear that he used a made up fantasy scenario:

                  “IF the Norway attack justifies our presence in Afghanistan, our presence in Afghanistan is justified” is about as good as Key could give the world.

                  • Glenn

                    At least try to think before showing your absurd partisanship – to say nothing of the way you appear to condone the chopping up of quotes that The (low) Standard has engaged in.

                    It’s really very simple. EVERY act of organised terrorist is a reminder of what ou country takes its stand against terrorism. Therefore if this was such an act (and as far as people knew, it could have been), then it’s a reminder of what we oppose terrorism.

                    Somehow when you’re engaging in politically motivated bleating, these simple facts slip past your attention.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Still buying into the whole “War on Terror” meme eh? That’s so 2004.

                      Still buying into the meme that having Kiwi soldiers fighting in Afghanistan somehow ‘makes the world safer’ are we?

                      Just explain that one for me eh?

                      Somehow when you’re engaging in politically motivated bleating,.

                      Takes one to know one :)

                    • Glenn

                      War on Terror? It doesn’t matter whether you or I buy it or not. If people just think we shouldn’t be in Afghanistan, fine, they can say so. But there’s no need for this dishonest smearing and half quoting to bolster those views.

                      THAT is what makes it political bleating.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Hey did you know that John Key believes that having our soldiers in Afghanistan ‘makes the world a safer place’?

                      I wonder where that belief came from.

                • FFS – just agree to disagree.
                   
                  Key was being opportune, unstatesmanlike and hoping for media coverage. As has been said elsewhere in this thread if he had offered condolences and support rather than attempting to offer his view on who he thought was to blame he would have come out looking far better.

                  • Glenn

                    “if he had offered condolences and support”

                    You realise that he did, right?

                    More dishonesty it seems, chopping out the inconvenient bits. Here is what Mr key said:

                    “I echo your sympathies and concern for that situation in Norway,” Prime Minister John Key added moments later when it was his turn to speak. “If it is an act of global terrorism, I think what it shows is no country, large or small, is immune from that risk. And that’s why New Zealand plays its part in Afghanistan as we try and join others like the United States in making the world a safer place.”

                    Try to be honest, people.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Key had to try and point score with some irrelevancy on how having our soldiers in Afghanistan made the world a safer place.

                      Maybe Faux News was giving him his lines?

                    • Campbell Larsen

                      Honestly Glenn if you think the war in Afghanistan is about the US making the world a safer place there really is no helping you.

        • Puddleglum 41.1.1.3

          Glenn, I don’t know if I can be considered a ‘fair person’ but, to be honest, when I read the quote in the post I was disturbed by Key pushing the connection with his government’s policy in Afghanistan. Then, when I heard that he had prefaced it with the conditional ‘if’ clause, I just couldn’t believe how opportunist he was being. That is, my judgment of his comment went from bad to worse once I found out about the ‘if’ part of it.

          Here’s why – and I think it’s ‘fair’ reasoning and pretty obvious.

          The ‘if’ not only shows that Key was taking the opportunity to link the event with his government’s policy on Afghanistan deployment but also that he obviously knew he was on doubtful and uncertain ground in making the comment. That makes it worse, in my book and, I would have thought, it would make it worse in any reasonable and fair person’s book.

          In a curious way, if he hadn’t said ‘if’ he would have simply been jumping to a conclusion. It’s not good but at least it has the excuse of ignorance. What the ‘if’ shows, however, is that the ‘jumping’ was considered – he knew there might be no connection.

          You also claim that “As such, bombings and shootings were quite naturally associated with terrorism (whou’da though?)

          Hang on Glenn. I don’t know about other ‘fair’ people, but when I hear about a mass shooting, my thoughts immediately go to the kinds of shooting sprees common in America and, unfortunately, increasingly common elsewhere. Now, of course, that definitely is a form of terrorism but we both know that if Key had meant that form of terrorism it would make absolutely no sense of his main claim (re: the validity of the Afghanistan deployment). Whatever the SAS are doing in Afghanistan it’s not about stopping people with guns running amok in mid-Western US towns or, now, just about everywhere.

          Personally, I think Key is providing an example here of what politicians do, almost reflexively, a lot of the time – trying to make political capital out of whatever event comes their way. The problem is that this was an horrendous event and Key showed he could not resist continuing to act opportunistically in relation to it. He acted like a politician not a statesman (which is what the occasion required – a show of sensitivity, compassion, concern and a cautious calm).

          A statesman would have said “None of us know the details yet and it is vital they be established before any conclusions are drawn. For now, all we can do is express our profound sadness and let those affected and the Norwegian people in general know that they have our moral and practical support and our deepest sympathies.”

          Why didn’t something like that occur to Key? Why wasn’t that the kind of ‘natural association’ he would make? I think the answer speaks to judgment, character and – that old-fashioned word – wisdom.

          • mik e 41.1.1.3.1

            I just jumped to the conclusion it was a far right wing nazi nut job when I first heard the news with Norways connections of the distant past.

  42. Zetetic 42

    A depressingly large number of people don’t realise that it’s not about whether Key might be excused for jumping to the conclusion that it was an islamist plot. It’s about the fact that his response is designed to deal with an domestic political problem. I didn’t see any other leaders exhibiting that kind of opportunism.

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    1 day ago
  • Anniversary of Sri Lankan Tamil Massacre
    This is not going to be a happy story but if the Green Party of Aotearoa doesn’t want to know who else will? May 18th marks the anniversary of what is known as the ‘Mullivaikal massacre’ of Tamils in 2009 at… ...
    frogblogBy Catherine Delahunty
    1 day ago
  • Game review: Republique
    Score: 6/10 Republique is an episodic stealth game set in a dystopian society. You play a hacker who is aiding the escape of Hope, a young woman trapped in this world. Though the games attempt to deal with heavy themes… ...
    2 days ago
  • Rodeo: ‘Family entertainment’ or animal abuse?
    Recently  TVNZ ran a story with confronting footage showing rodeo animals being punched, repeatedly shocked with electronic prods and having their tails violently twisted over their backs. It was clear that significant force was being used behind the scenes to make… ...
    frogblogBy Mojo Mathers
    2 days ago
  • Labour MPs are taking it to the Government in the House over their destruct...
    ...
    2 days ago
  • The price of rotten cops IV
    Remember the Nelson Red Devils case? Back in 2012, drugs and firearms charges against 28 alleged gang members were thrown out because police abused the court process by forging a search warrant and an arrest warrant to build the credibility… ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Best and worst New Zealand flag designs
    Dan Taipua, Dave Bell and Lucy Zee review some of the designs submitted for the for the new New Zealand flag. Check out the full gallery of designs here. ...
    2 days ago
  • World News Brief, Friday May 22
    PunditBy Daily Digest
    2 days ago
  • A hard rain is a’gonna fall.
    Although I am loathe to prognosticate on fluid situations and current events, I have been thinking about how the conflict in Iraq has been going. Although I do not believe that the Islamic State (IS) is anywhere close to being… ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 days ago
  • Got business out of town? Need a hire car?
    Whether you are heading of town for a conference or taking a break and need a hire car, your TEU Member Advantage program has you covered.  Use your member benefits to access either reduced car hire rates or excess on… ...
    2 days ago
  • An abuse of the OIA
    In the wake of revelations that Prime Minister John Key had systematically and repeatedly bullied, sexually harassed and assaulted a cafe waitress, the New Zealand Herald published a piece exposing the victim. It seemed like retribution, and the involvement of… ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Saying it Loud on Climate in Christchurch
    The Government’s Christchurch consultation meeting on New Zealand’s emission targets was inspiring – not for what was in the Ministry for the Environment’s (MFE’s) defeatist video about the obstacles to changing to a low carbon future, but for what the… ...
    frogblogBy Eugenie Sage
    2 days ago
  • Calling Peak Car?
    There’s often a lot of discussion around the future of transport – particularly in cities. We’ve talked many times before about how transport trends are changing, how we’re seeing people drive less and catch PT more, how changing preferences amongst younger people in… ...
    2 days ago
  • Australia’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on...
    The prohibition against torture is one of the cast-iron features of international law. You're not allowed to torture people, and you're not allowed to return or extradite people to a country where there are substantial grounds to believe they will… ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Fiji: Removing the opposition
    Last year, Nauru's government abused its parliamentary majority to suspend the opposition from Parliament on a spurious privilege motion. Its a disease which is spreading: last night, Fiji's "democratic" regime did the same, suspending an opposition MP for making a… ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Budget 2015: Don’t worry about the surplus, worry about this… Whiteboar...
    Bill’s budget put a bit of extra change in the pocket of poor families, but that came at the cost of the promised surplus. But should you be worried about it? With government debt still only at 25%… ...
    Gareth’s WorldBy Gareth Morgan
    2 days ago
  • The productivity trap – heads they win, tails we lose
    The article below was written in 2006, so some of the stats are a bit dated.  However the fundamental argument remains.  For instance, NZ productivity growth continues to be poor and NZ capitalists remain behind most of the OECD in… ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • Attention leftie campaigners: Watch Lynton Crosby
    This is a video of Lynton Crosby, of Crosby/Textor fame and infamy, talking about how he approaches campaigns. It is well worth an hour of any serious campaigner's time - whether they're of the left or the right. I've… ...
    PolityBy Rob Salmond
    2 days ago
  • Hard News: Friday Music: Out there in the world
    Friday Music posts here don't generally have much to do with my day job helping make a media TV show, but next week's Media Take is an exception. We're putting together a New Zealand music month-themed programme and one of the… ...
    2 days ago
  • Government announces plan to grow Auckland housing bubble
    The key initiative in yesterday’s budget is a plan to grow Auckland’s housing bubble. Auckland’s housing bubble is projected to take over from dairy farming as the fastest-growing sector of the New Zealand economy. Consider a typical Mangere housewife. For… ...
    Can of wormsBy Can of Worms, Opened
    2 days ago
  • Paul F Tompkins: The undisputed king of podcasts
    When Paul F Tompkins got into comedy in the mid 1980s, the formats with which he’s achieved most renown and popularity didn’t actually exist. “None of them did!” he yells, laughing, into the phone during an interview about stage… ...
    2 days ago
  • Budget 2015: What does it mean?
    ...
    2 days ago
  • What next?
    It feels really, really surreal to nearly be done with my degree. And terrifying, mostly. Right now I have a single 2000 word essay remaining for Politics of Protest and then three exams mid-way through next month, and… that’s it.… ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    2 days ago
  • Solo parents forced to work; but where are the quality jobs?
    The Government is increasing the expectations of paid work from solo parents without any thought as to where the jobs will be, the Council of Trade Unions said today. “There are already 100,000 part time workers who are wanting more secure… ...
    CTUBy andrew.chick
    2 days ago
  • April-15 Patronage
    Another month and another good patronage result from Auckland Transport – particularly for rail. Patronage in April is naturally down on the madness that is March due to the combination of a 30 day month, ANZAC day, Easter and School Holidays/Uni holidays.… ...
    2 days ago
  • April-14 Patronage
    Another month and another good patronage result from Auckland Transport – particularly for rail. Patronage in April is naturally down on the madness that is March due to the combination of a 30 day month, ANZAC day, Easter and School Holidays/Uni holidays.… ...
    2 days ago
  • Children and steady-as-you-go – but how steady?
    There are three political dimensions to the budget’s star “children in hardship” item. One is John Key’s ownership. That fits his protestations of concern about disadvantaged children — though action has been slow coming. He made his pile in… ...
    Colin JamesBy Colin James
    2 days ago
  • Thoughts on budget 2015
    There’s a Herald summary here. I’ve been saying for a while that ‘neoliberalism’ – ie a belief in the efficacy of free markets, the distortionary evil of taxes and benefits and the minimalisation of the state – is dead. There… ...
    DimPostBy danylmc
    2 days ago
  • What if your MP was decided on the flip of a coin?
    The provincial election in the Canadian province of Prince Edward Island finally came to an end a couple of days ago when its last MLA was declared elected following a judicial recount.(What - you didn't know that Prince Edward Island… ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    2 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on Budget 2015
    From the outset, the slogan for yesterday’s Budget – “The Plan Is Working” – begged to be mocked. There’s actually a plan for the national economy? Who knew? And its been working for whom, exactly? Not for families in poverty,… ...
    2 days ago
  • Building better connections between Asia and the Pacific
    Speech – New Zealand Government I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak at this International Conference on the Future of Asia.22 May 2015 Building better connections between Asia and the Pacific (speech delivered to 2015 Nikkei Forum, Tokyo,… ...
    Its our futureBy ScoopBlogPush
    2 days ago

  • How many victims missing out on protection?
    Hundreds of domestic abuse victims could be missing out on getting protection orders because they are unable to get legal aid, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says.“In the last two years some 351 people who applied for legal aid for… ...
    10 hours ago
  • Government kicks hardworking whanau
    A major incentive to help young Kiwis and people on low incomes to start saving has been kicked out from under them with the National-led Government ramming through short-sighted legislation under Urgency today, Labour’s Maori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta says.… ...
    10 hours ago
  • Speculator tax political stunt gone wrong
    Bill English’s admission he doesn’t know whether National’s new speculator tax will have any effect shows last weekend’s announcement by the Prime Minister was a desperate political stunt, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “This Government is so desperate to… ...
    14 hours ago
  • The value of parenting
    This week, as part of the Budget, the government introduced a bill to address child poverty. This bill will require parents receiving income support to look for part-time work once their youngest child is three years of age rather than… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    17 hours ago
  • Another new tax, another broken promise
    National has unveiled yet another new tax in this budget – a rural broadband levy that will almost certainly result in an immediate price hike for internet and telephone connections across New Zealand, Labour’s ICT spokesperson Clare Curran said “The… ...
    1 day ago
  • Anniversary of Sri Lankan Tamil Massacre
    This is not going to be a happy story but if the Green Party of Aotearoa doesn’t want to know who else will? May 18th marks the anniversary of what is known as the ‘Mullivaikal massacre’ of Tamils in 2009 at… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 day ago
  • Labour MPs join youth to take part in 40 hour famine
    A team of Labour MPs took part in the 2015 World Vision 40 hour famine and we were told by World Vision and the young people, that it was the first time MPs had joined them and how appreciative they… ...
    2 days ago
  • Rodeo: ‘Family entertainment’ or animal abuse?
    Recently  TVNZ ran a story with confronting footage showing rodeo animals being punched, repeatedly shocked with electronic prods and having their tails violently twisted over their backs. It was clear that significant force was being used behind the scenes to make… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    2 days ago
  • Budget puts the squeeze on police
    The Government has cut funding to the New Zealand police force in the latest Budget, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “The reduction is a whopping $15.3 million that could put front line officers at risk. ...
    2 days ago
  • Crucial social services take another hit
    The Government looks set to slash half a million dollars of funding for critical social services, including Women’s Refuge and Barnados, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni “Taking $500,000 from organisations aimed at improving the lives of vulnerable families… ...
    2 days ago
  • Saying it Loud on Climate in Christchurch
    The Government’s Christchurch consultation meeting on New Zealand’s emission targets was inspiring – not for what was in the Ministry for the Environment’s (MFE’s) defeatist video about the obstacles to changing to a low carbon future, but for what the… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    2 days ago
  • Budget silent on small business
    The Government has completely ignored one of the most important sectors of the economy – small and medium-sized enterprises – in Budget 2015, Labour’s Small Business spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. "A stunning 41 per cent of jobs were created by… ...
    2 days ago
  • Thank you John, it’s been bloody marvellous
    The departure of John Campbell is a blow to current affairs investigative journalism, Labour’s Broadcasting Spokesperson Clare Curran says. “Campbell Live stood out in its field. Its axing comes as local broadcasting in New Zealand remains in a state of… ...
    2 days ago
  • KiwiSaver cut shows no long-term plan
    National’s cutting of the KiwiSaver kickstart is incredibly short-term thinking, typical of a Budget that is woefully short on ideas to generate wealth and opportunity, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “New Zealand’s savings rate is far too low. KiwiSaver… ...
    2 days ago
  • National hits the panic button for its 7th Budget
    National has hit the panic button for its 7th Budget in a desperate attempt to look like they’re taking action to reduce our shameful child poverty rates, but they are giving with one hand and taking with the other, Opposition… ...
    2 days ago
  • Panic and back-flips can’t hide twin deficits
    National’s token measures to fight fires they have left burning for seven long years can’t hide a Budget that is long on broken promises, short on vision and fails to reach surplus, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “After being… ...
    3 days ago
  • Auckland land measure seven years too late
    National are so desperate to look like they are doing something about the Auckland housing crisis they have dusted off Labour’s 2008 inventory of government land available for housing and re-announced it, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Despite National… ...
    3 days ago
  • Access to gender reassignment surgery essential
    I was frankly disgusted to hear the Minister for Health say that funding gender reassignment surgeries is a “nutty idea”. A recent study found that in New Zealand 1% of young people identified themselves as transgender, and 3% were unsure… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    4 days ago
  • Global milk prices now lowest in 6 years
    The latest fall in the global dairy price has brought it to the lowest level in six years and shows there must be meaningful action in tomorrow’s Budget to diversify the economy, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Dairy prices… ...
    4 days ago
  • Big risks as CYF checks stopped
    Revelations that Child, Youth and Family is no longer assisting home-based early childhood educators by vetting potential employees should set alarm bells ringing, Labour Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “Doing away with an extra mechanism for checking potential new employees… ...
    4 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    4 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    4 days ago
  • State of origin
    Kiwis are increasingly concerned about the food they give their families. New Zealand consumers have the right to know where their food has come from, particularly when it involves animals, and should be able to expect our Government to label… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    4 days ago
  • Relationships Aotearoa
    It is disturbing that Relationships Aotearoa, a voluntary organisation set up in 1949 to help couples struggling with their relationships following the upheavals of World War II, may be forced to close, says Acting Spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community… ...
    5 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    5 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    5 days ago
  • House prices to a crack $1 million in 17 months
    The average Auckland home is on track to cost $1 million in 17 months’ time if nothing substantial is done to rein in soaring price rises, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Auckland’s house prices have skyrocketed 63 per cent… ...
    5 days ago
  • Vital support services can’t be left in lurch
    The National Government has big questions to answer about how a provider of services to thousands of vulnerable New Zealanders is set to fold, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. Relationships Aotearoa which provides support and counselling to families, individuals… ...
    5 days ago
  • Treasury and IRD on a capital gains tax
    Both the Treasury and IRD have been advising the National Government on the benefits of a capital gains tax. Documents released to the Green Party under an Official Information Act request show that John Key has been selective with the… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    6 days ago
  • Charity legislation needs review
    It is unacceptable that the big corporate based charities claim  millions in annual income tax exemptions, while small community based and operated non-profit organisations  struggle to gain official charity status, Labour’s acting spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community Sector Louisa… ...
    6 days ago
  • John’s panic-Key response to housing crisis
    John Key needs to tell New Zealanders what caused his sudden change of heart that led to the Government’s scrambled and last-minute housing measures, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “The Prime Minister’s sudden rush of blood to his head followed… ...
    6 days ago
  • Keep our Assets Christchurch Campaign: An update
    I recently presented my submission to keep Christchurch Council assets at the Christchurch City Council’s public hearings on its 10 year plan on 13 May. The hearings are live-streamed and recorded so you can watch them on www.ccc.govt.nz. The Council’s… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    6 days ago
  • John Key finally admits there’s a housing crisis
    John Key’s weak measures to rein in the astronomical profits property speculators are making are an admission – finally – that there is a housing crisis, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “But yet again National is tinkering with the housing… ...
    7 days ago
  • Government stifles voices in CYFs review
    The Government’s exclusion of the Māori Women’s Welfare League in a panel on the future of CYFs is a cynical ploy to stifle views, says Labour’s Māori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta. “It's unbelievable that a significant review on the future… ...
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the Otago Chamber of Commerce
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. It’s a pleasure as always to be back in the town that raised me. Growing up in St Kilda meant that there was one thing that was a big… ...
    1 week ago
  • Key can’t just be Prime Minister for Parnell
    John Key must show New Zealanders in next week’s Budget that he is more than the Prime Minister for Parnell, and is also the Prime Minister for Pine Hill, Putararu and Palmerston North, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. In… ...
    1 week ago
  • Stop the conversions
    This week, some Waikato locals took me and intrepid photographer Amanda Rogers on a tour of some  lakes and waterways in their region, and up to the massive dairy conversions in the upper catchment of the Waikato River. It… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 week ago
  • More regional jobs go in Corrections reshape
    News that 194 Corrections staff are to lose their jobs will have ramifications not only for them and their families but for the wider community, Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. Prison units at Waikeria, Tongariro and Rimutaka face closure… ...
    1 week ago
  • Government’s climate meetings off to a bumpy start
    On Wednesday, I attended a hui and an evening meeting that the Government had organised in Nelson as part of its climate change consultation tour, to support the Nelson community telling the Government to take meaningful action on climate change.… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    1 week ago
  • Taxpayers the only ones left feeling blue
    Ministry of Social Development bosses could have saved themselves thousands of dollars in consultants’ fees by providing staff with rose-tinted spectacles, Labour’s State Services spokesperson Kris Faafoi says. A report out today reveals the Ministry is spending over half a… ...
    1 week ago
  • Why are the regions still facing restrictions?
    Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford is questioning why the regions should continue to be saddled with LVR lending restrictions announced by the Reserve Bank today. “Labour has been calling for the regions to be exempted from LVRs for the best… ...
    1 week ago
  • The high costs of weak environmental regulation
    Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere is described on the Department of Conservation website as “Canterbury’s largest and New Zealand’s fifth largest [lake], and an internationally important wildlife area.” But the lake is also polluted by nutrients leaching from farms in the catchment.… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Submissions to Wellington City Council on their Gambling Venues Policy
    Every three years Councils across the country are required to check that their gambling venue policies are still fit for purpose and they can choose to consult on their policy if they are thinking of making changes. Councils don’t have… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Reserve Bank action shows Govt out of touch and out of ideas
    The Reserve Bank’s unprecedented measures today show it understands the serious risks of the overheating housing market – in complete contrast to John Key’s refusal to acknowledge the crisis, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The Bank is right to… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Send us your snaps: 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year we've hit a milestone. We're turning 25.To help celebrate a quarter of a century, please send us your photos from the last 25 years of the Green Party Aotearoa New Zealand! Note: Photos must be jpg, gif or… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year the Green Party sends 25. To help us celebrate a quarter of a century please send us you photos of 25 years of the Green Party!Photos must be jpg,gif or png and smaller than 2MB. If you are… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Bay growth plan too little too late
    Today’s Bay of Plenty growth study from MBIE is another example of Government spin - lots of talk but little action, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Cunliffe.  “This is a region that desperately needs to develop the downstream processing… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government bows to ACC pressure
     The Government has finally buckled to pressure from Labour and the New Zealand public in making a half billion dollar cut to ACC levies, but the full benefits are two years away,” says Opposition Leader Andrew Little.  “$500 million over… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • False figures cloud Auckland transport facts
    The Prime Minister should apologise and issue a correction after both he and Transport Minister Simon Bridges have been caught out misrepresenting facts on Auckland’s transport spending, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. "Both John Key and Simon Bridges have… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Govt books confirm National can’t post surplus
    The last publication of the Government’s books before the budget shows National will break its promise of seven years and two election campaigns and fail to get the books in order, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. “The Government is… ...
    2 weeks ago