Light Rail no Panacea for Wellington transport

21 comments on “Light Rail no Panacea for Wellington transport ”

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1. dukeofurl 1

   23 August 2017 at 9:22 am

   The risk from Earthquakes on the poles and wires that are essential for the trolley buses to operate is quite high. Non- wired electric buses can easily accomodate detours due to slips or road closures due to demolition. They can even be put on routes at short notice to replace trains that might be out of service. ie Johnsonville

   Much better is the electric bus that doesnt use wires at all. Wellington has chosen the technology available from Wrightspeed who have worked in this area for a while.

   If the basic hardware proposed to be used in Wellington for its buses, there is the chance the other versions which run on larger trucks on heavy duty hilly city cycles could happen.
   https://www.wrightspeed.com/the-route-powertrain
   This is the basic outline of what is changed on the bus

   The Route™ 500 powers city buses, beverage trucks, or other heavy delivery trucks making frequent stops. Excellent hill-climbing ability distinguishes the Route™ 500, providing fuel efficiency without compromising on the job requirements.

   Maximum GVWR: 33,000 lbs
   Class 5, Class 6 & Class 7
   GTD™ Units: 2
   Fulcrum™ generators: 1
   Horsepower: 250 hp
   Braking: 500 hp
   Top Speed: 50 – 72 MPH (configurable)
   Maximum Grade: 40% at max GVWR
   Range: Unlimited (with refueling)
   27 miles (pure EV)
   Estimated MPGe:[1] 11.1
   Fuel Consumption Reduced:[2] 74%

   Notice the batteries can be charged from plugin or the on board turbine generator. The turbine is compact , light weight and quieter than diesel and uses heat recuperation to improve efficency. Unlike existing trolley buses which use direct drive electric motors for the rear wheels Wrightspeed technology included a geared drive ( GTD), 2 speed which shifts gear electronically, no need for clutches.

   https://www.wrightspeed.com/releases/wrightspeed-to-launch-gtd-a-breakthrough-in-electric-drive-technology
2. Ad 2

   23 August 2017 at 9:29 am

   OMG Chris you’ll get miserable with all this hope about rail.
   Pop over to Sydney – the new one they are developing there through the middle of town is killing businesses, blowing out its costs, and will take multiple years to do.

   I’m not saying don’t try to do light rail, but dedicated buses to and from the Wellington and Auckland airports do a pretty good job. Just a wee bit of OPEX, and almost no taxpayer CAPEX, for an efficient result.
   • dukeofurl 2.1

     23 August 2017 at 9:55 am

     The Sydney capital cost – which includes the vehicles to run it is given here as $2.1 bill for 12 km.
     So thats $175 m per km , a misleading figure as it includes the tram costs and I presume a depot
     http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cost-of-running-sydneys-new-lightrail-line-blows-out-by-70-to-938-million-20161208-gt7gjl.html

     The vehicles Sydney will use are extremely long , 67 m which is two vehciles coupled together and they wont release to cost of the fleet only

     Melbournes latest contract for Australian assembled Trams is 20 E2 units for $274 mill or so. There were upgrades of earlier models so could be $12 mill per 33m tram
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-class_Melbourne_tram

     Maybe Sydney could get 40 33m trams from overseas at $10 mill each. A depot could be $50 mill, that could make the route costs some thing like $120-$140 mill per km

     About half the A$500 mill ‘per km’ cost mentioned for route costs. Still very expensive
     • Ad 2.1.1

       23 August 2017 at 10:06 am

       Aye.
       Auckland’s City Rail Link: 3.5kms for $3.5 billion. And it’s only just started in reality.

       Not saying don’t do it, just saying OMG watch yourself.
       • dukeofurl 2.1.1.1

         23 August 2017 at 10:25 am

         And expensive tunnels and underground stations have to do with laying tracks on roads how ?
         • Ad 2.1.1.1.1

           23 August 2017 at 12:18 pm

           It’s less, granted, in CAPEX per km.

           But land take and consents is worse due to impact, utilities is worse, new train fleet worse, traffic management is worse, new signal system, it will rack up.

           Also a real question if a local council can stand the heat.

           Generally, whatever the initial estimate, start multiplying.
           • dukeofurl 2.1.1.1.1.1

             24 August 2017 at 7:06 am

             Major routes are ‘dug up’ all the time. I lived near one that was a nightmare for around 18 months. They didnt even put down any tracks of any sort. It happens in the big cities, but the overall effect on travel at that time is small.
3. Cricklewood 3

   23 August 2017 at 10:04 am

   Stupidly expensive and disruptive if you ask me… we’ve got moterways and roads lets have more dedicated bus lanes perhaps slightly smaller buses servicing hubs and neighbourhoods.
   I think it would represent a far better use of capital.
   • dukeofurl 3.1

     23 August 2017 at 10:28 am

     Well you wouldnt use Billions to build an ‘expressway from Wellsford to Whangarei’ to save 4 min either.
4. alwyn 4

   23 August 2017 at 12:54 pm

   I am extremely surprised that this guest post was published on The Standard.
   I read this and then went back and reread a prior post on the site.
   https://thestandard.org.nz/labours-auckland-transport-announcement/
   What this new post is saying is that the Labour Party proposal for Auckland is stupid.

   I happen to think it is but for a different reason. By the time light rail is implemented, in either Wellington or Auckland, it will already be obsolete. Autonomous vehicles will be available. You won’t need a private car, at least for city use. You won’t have to walk in the rain to a bus stop or train station.
   Why on earth should we want 19th century technology in the 21st century?
   • Matthew Whitehead 4.1

     23 August 2017 at 4:55 pm

     I love the way that saying “Light rail is wrong for Wellington” is assumed to mean it has impact on Auckland. I have some news for you: Auckland is pretty flat compared to Wellington. The terrain here in the capital puts light rail on a big disadvantage, as it performs best on flat stretches. Even the case for light rail to Wellington Airport is hard to make economical given the constraints.

     If we’re in need of rapid transport within Wellington, we should be seriously considering rapid bus options.

     As for autonomous vehicles- I agree, a network of shared autonomous electric vehicles will likely be useful for off-peak travel or low-traffic routes in the future. But it will take us time to get there, and it still doesn’t address peak traffic problems, where essentially all the new technology will gain us is taking the driver out of the equation in a bus network. Given the demands on our electricity network that small electric vehicles will present, we will still need to be relatively efficient with them, so we’ll generally want to try to have them mostly full in operation, too.

     In the meantime, we need to reduce carbon emission from every source we can, and continuous improvement of public transport is a great way to keep doing that.
5. Sacha 5

   23 August 2017 at 2:15 pm

   Buses take up far more road space than trams or trains for the same number of passengers.

   In Auckland, there is not enough space on inner city roads for many more buses, let alone cars so where do you expect all the travellers from the airport to get off the bus or from their space-taking autonomous car?

   Transport Minister Simon Bridges has stated he would like to see light rail to Auckland International Airport within 25 years. With this in mind Wellingtonian’s aren’t going to see light rail in Wellington anytime soon.

   The case for light rail in Wellignton is currently about constrained right-of-ways through the cbd from the rail station to the airport. Like Auckland, the pressure on clean energy and pollution reduction will also only favour electrified high-volume public transit. Bridges and his master Joyce are just dolts about the timeframe.
   • dukeofurl 5.1

     23 August 2017 at 5:27 pm

     Auckland had far higher passenger usage of its trams and later trolley buses than they do today.
     There isnt really a problem with space on the roads for buses at present, its just ‘anxiety’ about future use.
     Once the CRL is complete there would be even less need for buses on middle and long distance routes coming into city.
     eg Eastern Suburbs will transfer at Panmure and Elleslie for a faster trip to City. Similar for Newmarket for central routes and Mt Eden Stations for Mt Eden Rd and Dominion Rd/ New North Rd.
     • Sacha 5.1.1

       24 August 2017 at 9:39 pm

       See detailed posts like this:
       https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2016/10/19/central-access-plan-mass-transit-for-the-isthmus/
   • miravox 5.2

     23 August 2017 at 6:50 pm

     “The case for light rail in Wellignton is currently about constrained right-of-ways through the cbd from the rail station to the airport. Like Auckland, the pressure on clean energy and pollution reduction will also only favour electrified high-volume public transit. Bridges and his master Joyce are just dolts about the timeframe.”

     I’d love to see light rail in Wellington through the CBD from the railway station to the airport and also the hospital.

     I’d also love to see public transport discussed in terms that included people who are not just commuters. It’s as if people have an image in their head of able-bodied, employed people and tourists being the only people who will use public transport.

     Modern trams are so much easier to use for people with bodies encumbered by babies and/or disability, for example. And they are the easiest form of transport that I know of when you’re quaxing it.
6. infused 6

   23 August 2017 at 5:27 pm

   No one wants those buses in Wellington. Constantly breaking down and a huge risk in an earthquake.
   • McFlock 6.1

     23 August 2017 at 7:49 pm

     Didn’t see a single breakdown on any of my wellington visits, and was impressed by the quietness and lack of diesel fumes.

     As for earthquakes, the circuit breakers and lack of public transport will be the least of the worries.
     • dukeofurl 6.1.1

       23 August 2017 at 9:45 pm

       An earthquake in Wellington doesnt mean it goes back to the stone age, having transport back as soon as possible helps on the road to recovery
       • McFlock 6.1.1.1

         23 August 2017 at 9:52 pm

         You do realise we’re talking about wellington, where even rain causes hillsides to collapse?

         Or are you saying that the trolleybus network should be ripped out in case Wellington is hit by the sort of earthquake that rips apart all the trolley bus infrastructure, but leaves everything else standing?
   • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2

     23 August 2017 at 7:53 pm

     No-one, apart from the people who disagree with you, and let’s face it, they aren’t really people. Best you make up a label for them so that everyone knows what you are.
7. Sable 7

   24 August 2017 at 9:45 am

   Yet more stupidity and the real insult is Wellingtonians like myself have to pay for it…..

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