None so blind

Written By: - Date published: 7:24 am, October 7th, 2011 - 81 comments
Categories: jobs, unemployment, wages - Tags:

National’s economic credibility was shot to pieces last week when Fitch and Standard & Poor’s gave them ‘not achieved’ marks. Less than a quarter of the OECD has been downgraded. New Zealand is one of them. All is not sunny in this brigther future.

But the Nats won’t admit there’s a problem. When the statistics are laid in front of them, they say they’re wrong. In the Nats’ war with reality, we’re the victims.

Take for example, a relatively simple question: how many people have become unemployed under National?

In February last year, the Household Labourforce Survey showed that the number of unemployed had risen by 7,000 in the quarter and 60,000 since National came to office. Key responded that we should ignore the HLFS because it is ‘just a survey‘ and “notoriously volatile“. He then promised that 2011 would be much better because unemployment is a “lagging indicator” (you’re not really out of work, Mack, you’re just a lagging indicator).

So, ignore the HLFS.

What else tells us about job losses? What about the National Employment Indicator?

Hon Phil Goff: When he also said yesterday: “Unemployment is starting to fall—not too bad.” had he read the latest National Employment Indicator for July, which shows that nearly 5,000 jobs were lost in New Zealand in that month alone?

Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No. Can I tell the member, because I will assume he does not know this and that is why he is giving the wrong information, that the National Employment Indicator is not a full indicator of all jobs in the economy.

Hon Phil Goff: Oh, it never is.

Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No. So—

Hon Annette King: Always changing the goalposts.

Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Actually, we are not changing. The consistent position we have always taken, and which the member took when he was in Government, is the household labour force survey.

Uh, huh. That would be the HLFS we were told to ignore by Key earlier this year.

OK. another simple question. How much have wages moved by in the last year?

We could look a the New Zealand Income Survey, which was out yesterday:

Hon David Cunliffe: Does the New Zealand Income Survey released today confirm that the median wage increase last year was just 1.9 percent and inflation was 5.3 percent, implying a cut in real terms in the median wage of 3.4 percent over the last year?

Hon BILL ENGLISH: Every time the member uses figures in that way, it confirms that he is not getting to grips with what is actually happening in the real world, as opposed to in his own head.

No? What about the Labour Cost Index. It produced a very similar number:

Hon Phil Goff: Were the statistics produced by Statistics New Zealand yesterday that showed that wages and salaries had gone up by 1.9 percent when inflation was running at 5.3 percent accurate?

Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The member is mixing a number of different factors. He is looking at the Labour Cost Index, which, as I said yesterday—and I am happy to take the member through it again—is a static, like-for-like comparison. It does not look at all the factors that go into wages. If one looks at all of those factors—that is, the quarterly employment survey

The Quarterly Employment Survey, eh? What do the officials say? “It should be noted that the QES can be volatile given it is affected by compositional changes. The LCI is generally the preferred measure of wage growth.”

Shit, so the Quarterly Employment Survey is volatile, eh? And we know how National hates to rely on volatile statistics.

The topper came on the final day of Parliament, yesterday. Labour had done the sums and worked out how badly Maori and Pacific Islanders have been hit by National’s “muddling through” according to the New Zealand Income Survey:

Hon David Cunliffe: Does the New Zealand Income Survey show that the real median income has fallen 6 percent after 3 years of his Government, and that real median incomes for Māori and Pasifika people have fallen by 16 percent and 21 percent respectively?

Hon BILL ENGLISH: In respect of the Māori and Pacific figures, there must be some question marks about the plausibility of the measure if it shows that for some reason Māori who are earning income are earning 16 percent less, yet the population as a whole is earning 2 or 3 percent more.

Yeah, it doesn’t show the whole population is earning more. It shows we’re earning 6% less. And the poorest communities are hit the hardest. When finally forced to front up to a statistic, rather than claim ‘it’s the wrong one’, National’s response to these facts isn’t to urgently investigate policies to fix the problem. It’s to whine that the survey must be broken.

Pathetic.

81 comments on “None so blind ”

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  1. higherstandard 1
    7 October 2011 at 7:39 am

    What are the rest of the OECD countries ratings ?

  2. AAMC 2
    7 October 2011 at 7:47 am

    Given Lehman Bros wasn’t downgraded even as it collapsed, what does that say about the real state of the economy, and the relevance of the ratings agencies?

    Fundamentally, the whole system is f$$ked, National are pushing us hardest down the path to oblivion, but they’re all useless, I wouldn’t vote for any of them if this election wasn’t so critical re Asset sales and the slide towards authoritarianism under National.

    Why hasn’t Labour taken the global financial narrative, the mass protests in all countries exercising Austerity and pinned that failed ideology to National? Is it because Labour are also supporters of this status quo? If not, start calling them out, loud and soon!

    • Enough is Enough 2.1
      7 October 2011 at 10:28 am

      I agree AAMC,

      This election is there for the left to take. English has bullshitted for three years that everything he was doing was being done to avoid a downgrade. Now that it has happened he has nothing at all to campaign on.

      But what is the alternative. Do we as kiwi’s even care. There are mass protests going on in Greece as you read this, Wall Street is being occupied, London burned only two months ago…and here we have an argument over what the clowns in charge said in Parliament to each other.

      We need leadership from the left…the real left. And there is none.

      This is a scary time to be alive

      • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 2.1.1
        7 October 2011 at 12:13 pm

        Of course the Greeks are protesting: they are facing the prospect of losing their German-funded pensions, and having to live within their means.

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox 2.1.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 1:14 pm

          Actually its the other way round. The Greeks are paying a massive amount of their income in interest re-payments to the German banks. Sure they shouldn’t have borrowed the money in the first place but its the re-payments that are going to impoverish them.

          • NickS 2.1.1.1.1
            7 October 2011 at 3:47 pm

            This.

            The loans were fundamentally a stupid thing to provide, but the bank’s greed got the better of them.

          • Misanthropic Curmudgeon 2.1.1.1.2
            7 October 2011 at 4:02 pm

            The government borrowed all that money why? To pay for pensions, free newspapers, a bloated public service, asset binges, and so on.

            The Greeks have been living off foreign money for years (just like NZ was in the 1970s). Now the greeks cant pay it back (just like NZ was this –> <– close to in the early 1980s) and those overseas lenders are saying 'enough'.

            And the Greeks aren't too happy about the prospect of paying it back and having to live within their means (Just like the NZlefties weren't in 1984 – and many still aren't and want to go back to those times/values)

            • Jum 2.1.1.1.2.1
              7 October 2011 at 4:35 pm

              misanthropic curmudgeon,

              It was the wealthy investors that betrayed Greece by removing their money from Greece, stolen no doubt from hard working people, and taking it to other countries as soon as they knew Greece had a financial issue. It was not a meltdown before then.

              It amuses me that bureaucrats are accused of being paper shufflers but what do ya think these slimeball moneytraders are – yes, go to the top of the class. the moneytraders are paper shufflers of bits of paper that really have no actual value. The ethical gold that used to back up those bits of worthless paper now long gone.

              When the world’s population finally realise that they are being controlled by the slimeballs of the world holding worthless sheets of paper, the houses of cards will all fall. Key along with it. Can’t wait.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                7 October 2011 at 7:06 pm

                The ethical gold that used to back up those bits of worthless paper now long gone.

                A gold backed currency doesn’t work. What we need is a currency that representative of the entire Renewable Resource Base and not just one rare metal. But that would require bringing the economy back to reality and TPTB just won’t allow that as then they wouldn’t be able to charge interest.

              • Misanthropic Curmudgeon …
                10 October 2011 at 3:42 pm

                In saying “It was the wealthy investors that betrayed Greece by removing their money from Greece” you appear to be suggesting that the lender should continue lending to Greece forever?!?!?!

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2
      7 October 2011 at 10:31 am

      Labour are supporters of the status quo. It’s what truly makes them a right wing party.

      • RedLogix 2.2.1
        7 October 2011 at 11:11 am

        Because in the final analysis we are all supporters of the status quo. We may wish for things to change, but for the most part if it means too much in the way of discomfort for us personally then we hold back.

        After all there is the rent/mortgage to be paid.

        • Lanthanide 2.2.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 1:10 pm

          “After all there is the rent/mortgage to be paid.”

          Unless that, being part of the status quo, was also changed.

      • Jum 2.2.2
        7 October 2011 at 4:36 pm

        Soooooooooooooo, Draco T Bastard, are the Greens marrying National then? C’mon you can tell me…shhhhh, nobody’s listening…

  3. vto 3
    7 October 2011 at 7:54 am

    Yep, ignoring things (at least in public) is their current modus operandi. It is a bit like a couple of other classics that people with no cred drag up in a moment of need…

    Firstly, whenever someone tries saying it is a matter of “balance” call bullshit. Balance is a bullshit word that is always used to grab more than is justified, and is repeated in relation to a particular issue, such as a water conservation order over a river, every decade or so. Call it out whenever someone calls for “balance”.

    Another one is when sonmeone says “I just think”. It means in fact they have not thought properly at all and they are in fact running on half-cocked misinformation and prejudices and other predetermined manners. It means they cannot back their point up with facts ar evidence.

    Both of these methods are in full swing with the brain-dead nats at the moment.

  4. Barnsley Bill 4
    7 October 2011 at 8:23 am

    I realise it does not fit your narrative but perhaps mentioning the earthquake as a mitigant may have added some balance to your post.
    The reality is that we have been lucky to only downgrade one increment.
    It could have been avoided if national had bitten down on the problem when they got into power. But in an uncharacterisitc manner for a national govt they took a more pragmatic and kind approach to fixing the massive problems left behind by Cullen and chose not to in an effort to soften the landing..
    We still have a bloated govt. I and many other National supporters expect this to be remedied when they return to the treasury benches with a clear majority after the election.

    • Jim Nald 4.1
      7 October 2011 at 8:25 am

      LOL! Yeah right

    • Pete George 4.2
      7 October 2011 at 8:36 am

      I and many other National supporters expect this to be remedied when they return to the treasury benches with a clear majority after the election.

      And for those that don’t want to give a free reign to National the UnitedFuture is a good way to hold them back. SOE policy will be announced on Monday that has significant bottom lines on asset sales.

      • Eddie 4.2.1
        7 October 2011 at 8:49 am

        In any asset sale, Dunne’s hair must be at the front of the queue?

        • Jum 4.2.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 4:40 pm

          Yes Eddie, sell the hair; it’s only ‘commonsense’. Ohhh. there goes the worm again.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.2
        7 October 2011 at 10:44 am

        No, PG, it isn’t. Having UF in coalition with NAct will just cater to both of their dictatorial mindset.

    • RedLogix 4.3
      7 October 2011 at 8:48 am

      We still have a bloated govt.

      What you mean is that we have any govt left at all. You really don’t believe in it do you?

      • Draco T Bastard 4.3.1
        7 October 2011 at 10:45 am

        The RWNJs don’t like government because it gets in the way of them ripping the rest of us off.

    • Eddie 4.4
      7 October 2011 at 8:48 am

      tell me a problem they’ve fixed.

      GDP is smaller.
      Government debt is larger (1700% larger!)
      Employment is down
      Wages are down
      Incomes are down
      Benefit numbers are up
      Household borrowing is up
      Business credit is down
      Record deficits
      Net overseas debt (fell due to earthquake reinsurance) is projected to rise every year in the future

      Come on. Tell me a problem they’ve fixed.

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox 4.5
      7 October 2011 at 8:48 am

      Given they have borrowed $37B during their time in office, they are going to have to do something. Logical outcome of unaffordable tax cuts.

    • Ianupnorth 4.7
      7 October 2011 at 11:09 am

      The EQC had funds i the kitty to cover the earthquake – end of story.
       
      Pragmatc approach – giving tax cuts to the rich to stimulate growth – hardly pragmatic! Cullen’s mess – of course you mean the lack of overseas government borrowing. The Labour government setup Kiwisaver so people would SAVE, the Nats did tax cuts so people would SPEND – and they have, hence our PERSONAL debt levels are too high.
       
      Bloated government? Where please – most public sector agencies have been on job freezes for three years.
       
      I guess you are talking about frontline services? Like the removal of teaching staff professional education advisors, leaving staff unsupported, but creating lots of people for National Standards – and $100K a year ‘advisors’.
       
      Or maybe you are talking about the alleged increase in police, nurses and doctors?
       
      What about the reduced biosecurity, reduced fisheries inspectors, oh and mine inspectors!!

    • Vicky32 4.8
      7 October 2011 at 11:26 pm

      We still have a bloated govt. I and many other National supporters expect this to be remedied when they return to the treasury benches with a clear majority after the election.

      Yeah, you keep telling yourself that… Maybe you think that will make it happen?

    • Draco T Bastard 4.9
      8 October 2011 at 12:09 am

      We still have a bloated govt.

      You mean the one that failing Chch, failed Pike River miners and is now failing Tauranga due to not maintaining credible rescue and assistance forces for shipping. With such a “bloated” government you just can’t get anything done – mainly because because the fuckwits in power fired everybody so that they could cut taxes for their rich mates.

  5. Afewknowthetruth 5
    7 October 2011 at 8:53 am

    There is no failure in National’s policies.

    National are working on behalf of the international money- lenders and global corporations. Their agenda is to facilitate the expansion of debt slavery and the looting of resources. The people who oil the wheels of those agendas get richly rewarded.

    One of the most important tasks the government is charged with at the moment is to keep the general populace deluded and compliant. National has done a great job -just look at the insanity of Rigby World Cup that a large portion of the populace has bought into, not just metaphorically but also financially.

    How many people are even aware that a particularly nasty piece of legislation to criminalise the production and trading of food by ‘unauthorised persons’ is well along the legislative process. Hitler would have done it by degree: National do it by stealth.

    National = Goorge Orwell on steroids (war is peace, ignorance is strength, feeedon is slavery) but most people don’t even know who George Orwell was. And Labour under Goff is little different. Labour plays along with the whole corrupt game, unfortunately.

    So we are all f*cked until someone ‘throws the money changers out of the temple’.

    • Shona 5.1
      7 October 2011 at 9:53 am

      you’re onto it AFWKTT. The credit downgrade is a deliberate act by Key’s (mates, backers, employers?? )to make our assets cheaper after Nov 26th. If you had that level of influence that’s what you’d do . Next move is to get the kiwidollar down a bit more so they pay 2/5ths of Fuck All for our publicly owned assets and resources. to quote Bomber wakey wakey sleepy hobbits.!!!

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1
        7 October 2011 at 10:50 am

        +1

      • Jum 5.1.2
        7 October 2011 at 4:46 pm

        Shona,

        Absolutely, Bill English didn’t meet with the IMF just for tea and cakes. Soon after that we get the downgrades. I cannot believe that New Zealanders don’t pick up on the fact that Key knows all these people; he worked and still is working for them. I wonder what the destruction of New Zealand’s sovereignty is worth to Key’s bank balance and power globally.

        No wonder Key is unaffected by it. And if he’s relaxed so is everyone else with short memories who would have witnessed him and English rabbiting on about taking action to secure a good credit rating a couple of years ago or face bankruptcy.

        Fool the populace once; that’s understandable. Fool Kiwis twice; they become the fools.

    • muzza 5.2
      7 October 2011 at 11:11 pm

      Spot on, this is precisely what is going on. The legislation you speak about is quite unbelieveable, I heard about it a few days ago. Who knows who brought this into the house, and what is the most efficient way to get at the bills introuduced in for reading etc?

      We need someone in Wellington pumping out information, and Im not talking about the shit from the media people read and see every day!

      I would not be surprised to see another downgrade over coming months, or for some further narrative to drive down the NZD

      JK was put in place to sell out NZ, and it makes no difference to who really is at the wheel, they are all compliant, just some understand much more than others about the real game being played. JK is an insider, anf a traitor, simpler as that!

      So what are we doing about it?

  6. RedLogix 6
    7 October 2011 at 9:10 am

    Pertinent to the post; from the Herald and Stuff.

    Reading both articles makes it clear that while there are any number of ways to spin the stats to suit your purpose.. the overall conclusion is clear. Median hourly wage rates have fallen well behind inflation.

    In other words this country has a PM who before he was elected stated that he wanted to see wages fall and he has delivered. You righties gotta be so proud.

    Oh and Pagani writes sense too.

  7. queenstfarmer 7
    7 October 2011 at 9:12 am

    No-one (except the anarchists, I suppose) would argue that a downgrade is good. Politically, especially not when you’ve been bragging about not having a downgrade.

    But in substance the Govt has dodged the downside – the markets barely batted an eyelid. Borrowing costs have not soared. The market obviously still has as much confidence in the nation’s creditworthiness as before, which is the real test that matters.

    Which is how it should be. I am still waiting for someone to tell me why the rating agencies have any credibility whatsoever after their epic fails in the GFC. The far-left loves to hate the global banking establishment, yet for some reason are ready to give full credibility to these key players in it when it suits them.

    • KJT 7.1
      7 October 2011 at 9:27 am

      They do not have any credibility. Note that lenders to NZ have basically ignored the downgrade.

      We are commenting on the irony. National cannot even succeed in the terms they themselves have set.

      Even apart from the proven failure of voodoo economics since the 80’s. http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/2011/03/voodoo-economics.html

      Skilled wages half that of Australia, the lower paid barely able to make a living and children in poverty.

      If politicians over the last 40 years had been kept to the same standards of responsibility, that I am in my job, they would all be in gaol.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2
      7 October 2011 at 10:54 am

      Borrowing costs have not worked their way through yet.

      FIFY

      Another bloody RWNJ that expects an instant response from the market.

      The market obviously still has as much confidence in the nation’s creditworthiness as before, which is the real test that matters.

      NZ$ was at US$0.82 and, after the downgrade, is now at US0.77. That’s about a 6% drop in “confidence”.

      The far-left loves to hate the global banking establishment, yet for some reason are ready to give full credibility to these key players in it when it suits them.

      Why it gets brought up is because John Key and National proclaimed not having a downgrade as a measure of their competence. The downgrade thus proves their incompetence.

      • queenstfarmer 7.2.1
        7 October 2011 at 12:16 pm

        Another [good bloke] that expects an instant response from the market

        That’s kinda how markets work.

        NZ$ was at US$0.82 and, after the downgrade, is now at US0.77.

        You realise that’s actually a good thing?

        • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 12:34 pm

          That’s kinda how markets work.

          No it isn’t you moron because none of us are omniscient. No one immediately makes a decision of the basis of S&P credit ratings – they wait to see what the “leaders” in the “market” are doing and then follow.

          You realise that’s actually a good thing?

          I realise many things from that. Our exports will be cheaper on the international markets, our interest rates are set to rise and imports are set to stay about the same due to the fact that we don’t actually manufacture all that we need to.

        • mik e 7.2.1.2
          7 October 2011 at 8:53 pm

          QSF Yeah we’ll just muddle through.The money printing machines in the US and Europe have been working overtime overnight .NZs dollar will inflate again!

      • BHAT 7.2.2
        7 October 2011 at 2:16 pm

        NZ$ last traded at .82 on 21st September. Downgrade was on 30th. It was already dropping on Euro concerns. Its almost back to levels before downgrade.

    • Afewknowthetruth 7.3
      7 October 2011 at 11:03 am

      qsf

      ‘the markets barely batted an eyelid’

      Do you not realise that ALL markets are manipulated by the intenational money-lenders?

      Just recently there was a minor panic in the Eurozone so gold went DOWN???!!!

      And shortly after the US credit rating was downgraded we were told that investors were transferring funds into US markets because it was a ‘safe haven’???!!!! Get real.

      It’s a race to the bottom, with each country [within the western bloc] being given a turn at leading the charge.

      I see Mark Weldon has done whatever damage he was required to do and is now getting out.

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox 7.4
      7 October 2011 at 11:09 am

      So your argument is that credit downgrades have no long term effect on confidence in a market? OR the ratings agencies don’t know what they are talking about and Key and English have been fibbing all this time?

      • queenstfarmer 7.4.1
        7 October 2011 at 12:19 pm

        I didn’t argue either of those things (although I question the rating agencies credibility). All I said was that the Govt “dodged the downside”. If the markets had a dire view of the Govt’s economic policies, and then we got hit with a downgrade, there would have been immediate downside.

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox 7.4.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 1:02 pm

          Probably a bit too early to conclude that we have dodged anything as yet. Do like your optimism though.

          • queenstfarmer 7.4.1.1.1
            7 October 2011 at 2:21 pm

            Well things may yet go more pear shaped. Greece will default, I think that is inevitable, and a new banking crisis may well result in Europe. So I am not exactly optimistic. But in terms of the downgrade, clearly that in itself has been of no significant consequence (which is indeed a lucky break for the Govt, especially given their big-noting). The market is comfortable with govt’s fiscal policy.

            It does raise other issues though, such as the impact of Labour’s proposal to borrow hundred s of millions from overseas, to fund tax cuts.

            • Colonial Viper 7.4.1.1.1.1
              7 October 2011 at 2:26 pm

              Key and English have set NZ adrift without a plan and the credit ratings agencies are well aware of that.

              The markets aren’t reacting hard at the moment for very many different reasons. But bear in mind that AA is still investment grade.

              Makes English and Key looks stupid for taking credit for earlier credit ratings stability, and for them saying it would be a disaster to be downgraded.

              It does raise other issues though, such as the impact of Labour’s proposal to borrow hundred s of millions from overseas, to fund tax cuts.

              The only reason you dont like this is because these tax cuts are fair, not slanted to the rich.

              • queenstfarmer …
                7 October 2011 at 3:19 pm

                The only reason you dont like this is because these tax cuts are fair, not slanted to the rich.

                Absolutely not – I don’t support any tax cuts that are not matched by commensurate cuts in spendings. I believe in a balanced budget (except for emergencies). Both parties have been guilty of spending beyond the country’s means.

                The last couple of budgets have at least “zeroed” that, so it is disappointing to see Labour promising to return to borrowing to fund tax cuts, especially in the circumstances.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  7 October 2011 at 4:00 pm

                  You know, the only borrowing to fund tax cuts that I’ve seen is from National and Act. Labour has actually fully costed and funded their spending. Yes, there’s a little time in which they need to borrow more but after that they have more return to pay for the borrowings.

                  NAct just cuts taxes, say the magic of the market will fund things and the borrowing becomes permanent.

                • mik e …
                  7 October 2011 at 9:02 pm

                  Inflation still at 5.1% can’t blame gst anymore growth at less than 1% total for 3 years tax cuts for the rich have rally worked just like the nineties just like rogernomics high unemployment low growth

                • Zaphod Beeblebrox …
                  7 October 2011 at 10:22 pm

                  Labour are also introducing new taxes, a new top rate and a CGT. Thats the other way to reduce borrowings.

                  National have reduced the tax base and not cut spending- why do you treat their irresponsibility so lightly?

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 October 2011 at 10:28 pm

                  Absolutely not – I don’t support any tax cuts that are not matched by commensurate cuts in spendings.

                  FFS what are you, mimicking the BS from the US political scene?????

                  Notice that they are circling the drain in ever decreasing circles?

  8. tsmithfield 8
    7 October 2011 at 10:08 am

    The thing is that the policies of the left would put further downward pressure on credit ratings.

    For example, the rating agencies have commented on the government’s liability for the ChCh earthquake as part of the reason for the downgrade. However, Labour has been promising to spend more taxpayer money on the earthquake, further increasing the government’s earthquake liability, which I am sure would bring joy to the ears of the rating agencies. NOT.

    • Galeandra 8.1
      7 October 2011 at 10:24 am

      Hiya hobbit. Guess you want everyone else to live in a hole, too.
      So Labour shouldn’t try to prevent profiteering causing more financial casualties in ChCh?
      Yet quite likely outcome would be to save social expenditure in the long run. Who knows, govt might even show a nett profit which would be ok if sufficient to cover incurred costs, I guess.

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox 8.2
      7 October 2011 at 11:13 am

      If you read why S and P said you would know

      1. They are worried about the tax base shrinking. Considering we are one of the few countries without a CGT, that may help somewhat.

      2. Are worried about a lack of savings. Kiwisaver cuts and not investing in the Super Fund were National decisions.

      3. Are worried about our borrowing for things like property. Again a CGT will help.

      4. Are worried about our reliance on commodoities like dairy. Don’t think selling SOEs to foregners are likely to improve that either.

      So in what way are Labour likely to make things worse?

      • tsmithfield 8.2.1
        7 October 2011 at 12:23 pm

        Perhaps you need to look at this link.

        From the article:

        While Fitch’s news release didn’t point to this specifically, it did note that while New Zealand’s ratings remain supported by “fiscal prudence”, and public finances were typically a point of strength for New Zealand relative to its peers, upward revisions to the damage estimates from the Christchurch earthquake and consequent fiscal costs, or fiscal slippage driven by other causes, could set back the Government’s current forecast of returning to budget surplus by 2014/15.

        I believe that what Labour is proposing for Christchurch would count as an “upward revision” so my point stands.

        So far as a CGT is concerned, Labour is planning to borrow more in the meantime, and pins its hopes on revenue from a CGT that won’t have much impact for around 10 years. There is an awful lot that can happen to asset valuations during that time, so it is very much pie in the sky IMO.

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox 8.2.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 12:59 pm

          The difference between the two parties that I can see is that one is proposing ways of paying off our public fiscal deficit and the other does not. The one the does not is living in fantasy-land hoping for 3% economic growth next year.

          The point about the CGT is not only that it helps raise revenue over the long term, but that it will help control foreign borrowings to pay for speculative assets. I can’t see how anyone could see this as a bad thing. S and P does not seem to draw a great deal of distinction between public and private debt and too much of the latter seems to translate to teh former in a crisis.

        • mik e 8.2.1.2
          7 October 2011 at 9:21 pm

          That BS figure is believable as Treasuries other predictions and management corrupted by the right wing ideologues that work for business round table in the treasury dept.That return to growth prediction was if NZs growth was at 4.7% growth that is not going to happen in your wildest dreams given we under National who promised us 4% growth at the last election as well as in the may budget is nothing more than pure BS.National under Bills english has not managed even 1% growth in five years as finance minister so whats going to change nothing except more austerity less tax for the rich user pays for the poor failed policy of the nineties both 1890’s and 1990s 1920s and early 1930s those policies have failed and are still failing.National is like a dodgey finance company the dodgy salesman Key and co tells you all these wonderful stories like invest in us the future will be brighter.Then they take your money and don’t deliver and leave us with a massive debt $76 billion + a run defense force, run down health system ,run down education system, run down savings policy,and a run down economy. but their mates get a taxcut and 17% pay rise.

          • Zaphod Beeblebrox 8.2.1.2.1
            7 October 2011 at 10:26 pm

            Air NZ, Kiwibank, all the SOEs- tehy will all be gone by the time JoKey and Double Dipper have finished with this economy. If you won’t raise revenue you can only sell off stuff to make ends meet.

        • KJT 8.2.1.3
          8 October 2011 at 11:15 am

          Pie in the sky.
          Like the better future if we tighten our belts now that the Neo-Liberals keep promising us, if only we entrust our wealth to them.

          Like 170 000 jobs, catching up to Oz etc.

          I think I prefer the CGT and starting to fix the disaster of the last 35 years.

          The only problem is Labour is still being too timid.

    • mik e 8.3
      7 October 2011 at 8:59 pm

      Downgrades never happened on labours watch the effects of the downgrades and the printing of US dollars haven’t registered yet but mark my words it will happen with your argument you are pantene your self into a corner just like National has done with borrow and hope policy.Printing some money would keep our dollar down and our overseas debt down as well as reduce imports thats one of the reasons the US UK and the EU are printing money instead of borrowing

      • Colonial Viper 8.3.1
        7 October 2011 at 9:06 pm

        Downgrades never happened on labours watch

        Correct. The last down grades happened 13 years ago, under Jenny Shipley’s watch, years into National rule.

        • mik e 8.3.1.1
          7 October 2011 at 9:24 pm

          CV Bills English was deputy finance minister learning how stuff the economy then, He obviously learned well.

  9. randal 9
    7 October 2011 at 1:52 pm

    this government doesnt give a stuff. they are purely and simply carpetbaggers. their programme has always been to win office and then sell themselves the states assets. If it looks like they wil lose the election [and they will] then expect them to call an emergency session of parliament to pass the necessary enabling legislation.

    • Jum 9.1
      7 October 2011 at 2:35 pm

      Randal,

      As far as the Ports of Auckland and other local government assets are concerned, that enabling legislation was forced through under urgency back in 2010, and come July 2012 they can sell all of it off.

      You are right in that if they look likely to lose the election they will most certainly, with the support of both Simon Power and the NZ stock exchange boss (whatsisname) who are taking up new positions to organise the selling of the shares in all these assets, speed up that process.

      But New Zealanders just keep smiling back at Key…and the smiling assassin keeps on smiling right back, the mouth wider, the teeth sharper.

  10. Ed 10
    7 October 2011 at 3:48 pm

    The Remuneration Authority measures parliamentary incomes against equivalent incomes in the private sector. It will be interesting to see how the rise they come up with compares with 1.9% – will it show that the wealthy have not only received the biggest tax cuts (in both absolute and percentage terms), but that the managers and directors have looked after themselves first with pay rises?
    If parliamentarians get a higher rise it may just make some realise how much the wealthy have looked after themselves – at the expense of our future as the resulting debt will have to be paid off sometime.

  11. mik e 11
    7 October 2011 at 7:37 pm

    QSGoat Farmer Ben Bernanke , European reserve bank,and the Governor the bank of England have warned of dire straights and are bailing out banks again so your BS does cut any mustard you have your head up the same cows arse as shonkey and borrowing Bills $ 76billion Vote buying debt. You have as much credibility as the finance company boss’s who are trying to get legal aid while on holiday in Australia or Treasuries billions of Dollars lost along with shonkeys lack of action on SCF after being warned about their broken lending covenants.NZs financial future is standing on a house of cards if dairy prices fall and they print money[THE US EU and England] our dollar will inflate again and no one will be able to afford our commodities.

    • Colonial Viper 11.1
      7 October 2011 at 8:34 pm

      Let the banks die; and END the FED

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1
        7 October 2011 at 8:48 pm

        End all private banks. The dead weight loss that they represent is bad for the economy and the environment.

    • Zaphod Beeblebrox 11.2
      7 October 2011 at 10:32 pm

      As the US print they inflate the $NZ. That kills our manufacturers.

      The Chinese are on to them though, the Yuan is still pegged to the $US.

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