Open mike 02/09/2022

19 comments on “Open mike 02/09/2022 ”

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1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1

   2 September 2022 at 7:14 am

   Opponents of a dam development in Central Hawke's Bay say a regional council decision to defer consent fees is a concern for the future.

   The signs read: "Charity event, water barons in need", "No favour, no payment, no consent", and "No more ratepayers dollars for dodgy dam".

   The Ruataniwha dam is a controversial matter in the region.

   Although it was blocked by the Supreme Court, resource consents for a dam in the area were sold by the regional council's investment arm to private group Water Holdings Hawke's Bay.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/473901/anger-at-hawke-s-bay-council-decision-to-defer-dam-consent-fees

   Forest and Bird claim the new council money could put the dam back on the table.

   The Ruataniwha dam was going to be set up to help solve the problem of water security. Millions of ratepayers' cash was spent.

   After a fight from environmental groups, the Supreme Court ordered the dam could not go ahead.

   The court said a land-swap needed to free up conservation land for the scheme was not legal.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/422981/failed-ruataniwha-dam-still-causing-contention-as-council-agrees-to-relieve-financial-stress-of-backers

   The proposed $330 million Ruataniwha dam and irrigation scheme was canned in 2018 after years of debate and some $20m expenditure by Hawke's Bay Regional Council on consents and planning.

   The intellectual property associated with the scheme was later sold to Water Holdings Hawke’s Bay Ltd, a company formed by six businessmen for $100,000.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/129713803/ruataniwha-dam-proponents-owe-council-more-than-250000

   I have followed this for YEARS ! Does anyone on the Standard have local or other knowledge on this?

   Would appreciate input, thanks.
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1

     2 September 2022 at 7:46 am

     And the end of the meeting, Water Holdings majority shareholder Tim Gilbertson marched over angrily to the council leadership with cash in hand.

     "I don't believe for a moment we owe you $80 but here's $100, keep the change, from Water Holdings," he told chief executive James Palmer.

     "Well that's one way to collect the debt," Barker said.

     One councillor called Gilbertson a "jerk".

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/473901/anger-at-hawke-s-bay-council-decision-to-defer-dam-consent-fees

     This Tim Gilbertson…..is the same as the one as a linkedin page ?

     https://nz.linkedin.com/in/tim-gilbertson-898b6983

     DOC Planner..Biodiversity.

     Seems incongruous…at the very least ? I mean hey Forest and Bird (who I RESPECT immensely ) are against this water hoarding dam.

     F and B have a very Proud History of protecting NZ Biodiversity….
     • Matiri 1.1.1

       2 September 2022 at 8:39 am

       It's this Tim Gilbertson, angry farmer in his 60's, ex Fed Farmers chair, ex Mayor, ex councillor.

       https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/rural-news/rural-opinion/a-damn-load-of-emotional-effluent

       [user name fixed]
       • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1.1

         2 September 2022 at 9:19 am

         Hi Matiri. Thanks for that. He seems to be focused, well, in a self focused way !

         As I say..if Forest and Bird against…..then I'll go F and B : )
         • Shanreagh 1.1.1.1.1

           2 September 2022 at 10:34 am

           Having ruined the Mackenzie basin/country with irrigation focussed dairying 'they' are now focussed on Central HB.

           I wonder why every last piece of NZ has to be developed for dairying, apart from greed.

           Whatever happened to the mana associated with being a farmer farming to the local conditions, so dryland farmers farmed to dryland conditions etc etc. With a modicum of irrigation used say to irrigate paddocks for winter feed or baleage. Some of these dryland farms often don't need irrigation for this even but are able to use the topography and weather records to plant for winter feed in niche areas.

           Sure climate change is making its presence felt. I think that unless/until these developments are able to be sold with the benefits being first to the residents of nearby towns and cities to achieve improved regular and potable water supplies then developments should not go ahead. Developments with a first focus of changing geography/farming/landuse to unsuitable/unsustainable uses should come a distant 100th,

           If this would be prevented by Three Waters ie there is a focus on drinking water for the majority then I'm all for Three Waters ……well I am all for Three Waters anyway.

           Greed and entitlement is behind this.
           • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1.1.1.1

             2 September 2022 at 10:45 am

             Hi Shanreagh. Yes re Mackenzie Basin…Another one I have followed for years. And big credit to Greenpeace for standing up ! Thankyou for being Interested.

             The perverse concept of trucking in thousands of cows to trample and urinate all over some of our most unique South Island landscapes and habitats is as preposterous as it is unfeasible.

             https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/06/opinion-dairy-conversions-in-the-mackenzie-basin-are-a-turd-in-a-teacup.html

             the farm is expected to have up to 15,000 stock units, including 5500 cows, with 4500 hectares (almost a quarter of the size of nearby Lake Pukaki) under irrigation.

             https://www.newsroom.co.nz/last-battles-loom-for-mackenzie-dairy-farm

             Last week I was arrested with 11 of my friends. For one day we stopped dairy expansion in the Mackenzie Basin at the foot of Aoraki Mount Cook.

             We ranged in age from 25 to 88, with occupations including architect, engineer, former school principal and nurse. We were grandparents, parents, university graduates and farmers.

             https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/conservation-comment-how-far-for-a-dollar/SCZKI7X5KUD67V2XQT4R5ZQYN4/

             Greed…and entitlement. Two apt words for Murray Valentine. Accountant ….
           • Hunter Thompson II 1.1.1.1.1.2

             3 September 2022 at 9:20 am

             How will Three Waters ensure better water quality in rivers and streams (not to mention sufficient water)? It seems to be directed at drinking water and waste water.

             The Three Waters TV advert (since pulled) showed lots of happy fish jumping in a river but I suspect that was just feel-good puffery.
   • Ad 1.2

     2 September 2022 at 10:02 am

     You could say I'm aware of how to construct it.

     They could propose a new scheme under National that is lowered and doesn't require DOC land, then…

     Focus end uses away from. Dairy and towards horticulture, electricity, reticulated, civic supplies, and flood mitigation.

     Would also take a strong local government leader to push it.

     And a good comms and engagement team.

     Perfectly feasible.
     • Shanreagh 1.2.1

       2 September 2022 at 10:51 am

       Sure engineering-wise it is able to be constructed.

       The greed and entitlement on show here could be mitigated by a project that

       did not need soul selling in the 'stoopid' swap for DOC land. Set their sights lower so it does not require a swap.

       Focus on the end users

       horticulture, electricity, reticulated, civic supplies, and flood mitigation.

       I would put 'horticulture' at the end……..civic projects and help for all should have a place before the creation of individual wealth. We know some horticultural projects are not good employers or NZ corporate citizens, have excessive reliance on overseas labour whether by RSE scheme or back packers. Any intensification of land use risks run-off and migration to aquifers that rely on loose stony ground.

       Having been aware of the proponents of this scheme, changes such as this (Ad's and mine) will cause a group apoplexy such as we have not seen before.

       3 Waters surely would have a part to play to see that ideas focus on the correct end uses.

       If we leave it to Ad's Nats then who knows what would happen…..well we do and none of it would be good.
       • Ad 1.2.1.1

         2 September 2022 at 11:24 am

         Under 3 Waters any dam proponent who failed to cut in Maori iwi as shareholders would need their head read.
         • Poission 1.2.1.1.1

           2 September 2022 at 11:51 am

           If three waters had been in post war,we would have had no hydro generation,a reliance on thermals and been economically rooted like Europe et al.Forest and bird would not have existed as the subsistence life that remained would have needed lots of firewood to cook illegal tegal.
           • Ad 1.2.1.1.1.1

             2 September 2022 at 12:24 pm

             Yeah there's a bit of that.

             In reality there will be no more in-river dams in NZ ever – unless it's replacing like for like eg Roxburgh. Even the NZBattery Project near Roxburgh is a decade of misery-laden bitching and moaning consents to cold-turkey pull the oil needle out of our veins.
             • Poission …

               2 September 2022 at 12:31 pm

               We have more cost efficient pumped storage on the canals,and Aviemore,cheap hydro is very efficient baseline generation (few countries in the world have 2 cents a megawatt on their spot market at the moment.( now)

               The great fraud of Europe is exposed,as are their carbon offset markets.
           • Drowsy M. Kram 1.2.1.1.1.2

             2 September 2022 at 12:29 pm

             A time and a place for everything under the sun – some things have had their time, some are making hay, and some things are yet to come. Dim sum.
2. Bearded Git 2

   2 September 2022 at 9:32 am

   Britain is about to end up with a dinosaur as PM.

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/01/liz-truss-oil-gas-energy-climate-crisis

   Among other things Owen Jones says:

   "Liz Truss – already a plausible contender for the “worst prime minister ever” gong before she even assumes office – apparently intends to issue up to 130 drilling licences for oil and gas firms…..Truss has committed to change planning laws to hinder the development of solar power, trashing an energy source that costs just £55 per MWh. “Our fields shouldn’t be full of solar panels” she crows…..This week, scientists concluded that the Greenland ice cap melting will inevitably mean major rises in sea levels, threatening to overwhelm coastal areas and all those who live in them. A decisive shift to renewable energy offers hope of at least mitigating this calamity, while expanding UK drilling means pouring North Sea oil on to the inferno. "

   I can see a Luxon government following a similar path.
3. Sanctuary 3

   2 September 2022 at 9:51 am

   Russia really ought to turn some of the focus from it's fascist crusade in the Ukraine to addressing the serious health and safety issue that its vast number of full length open windows in public building seems to pose.

   Its like the joke –

   Q: What are the last words of a Russian oligarch before he commits suicide?
   A: “Please! Don’t shoot!”
4. Stephen D 4

   2 September 2022 at 10:17 am

   First article I’ve read from Peter Dunne where he doesn’t put the boot into Labour. Makes an interesting argument comparing Ian Foster and Chris Luxon.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/luxon-in-danger-of-becoming-the-ian-foster-of-nz-politics?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=7a872e0b06-Daily_Briefing+02.09.2022&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-7a872e0b06-47886425
   • Bearded Git 4.1

     2 September 2022 at 10:35 am

     He does stick the boot in a bit over the Sharma (non) affair. But it is interesting that he is not impressed with Luxon's performance as leader. Coming from Dunne that is a real problem for the Nats.
5. Belladonna 5

   2 September 2022 at 4:31 pm

   Now this is a Labour bill that I can get behind 100% – Plain Language bill passes second reading.

   The amount of obfuscatory language emerging from government departments is mind-blowing.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/129751653/labours-plain-language-bill-passes-second-reading

   National opposing – mostly it seems from the ingrained habit (see a car, bark) – that tends to infect opposition parties.

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