Another day, another piece of spin for the TPP from the Herald. This time it’s Audrey Young doing her owners’ bidding.
After years of not reporting it, now they seem to be advertising it.
Would you call those ‘spin’ also?
Seems to me The Herald is reporting both sides of the story.
Your problem is that you wake up each morning with only one eye open a bad case of confirmation bias.
what about the multiple audreys, frans, claires, etc etc
yes the herald does have some critical articles – but its pretty hard to deny that they arent engaging in a ramp up of once over lightly, put down the dissenters, spin articles
Ok – im really only looking at the opinion section there so will freely admit theres stuff i dont see
Produce an honest good number for the government – let’s do an easy one – How many houses has Nick Smith built in Auckland?
I’m betting it’s less than half a dozen.
This ‘government’ is completely worthless – they cost more and achieve less than any previous NZ government – and by golly the competition isn’t stellar.
You’ve heard of the phrase “false balance”, I’m sure.
I’m sure you are aware that there are actually several manifestations of ‘false balance’, including the very common use of it as an attempt to avoid bias.
So unless you have a specific allegation of a specific use of ‘false balance’ by The Herald? I’ll take it that you are simply pulling your usual trick of implying something dark and then leaving the believers to join up the dots in the way that best suits their personal bias.
Perhaps you’re even aware of the argument that it distorts public discourse.
Yes. And you may be aware of some of the objections and qualifications to that argument.
1. In order for ‘public discourse’ to be significantly distorted, a specific manifestation of ‘false balance’ would need to be consistently applied to a sufficiently large bloc of all available media.
In simple terms, in an environment where an educated public have access to many media sources, it is impossible for a single media outlet of the size of The Herald to produce enough bias to have an appreciable effect on ‘public discourse’. (This is why truly repressive Governments always have overt media control as a priority).
2. ‘Truly balanced’ reporting is an impossibility.
Except perhaps in a case where there are no factors involved that are open to dispute, and the protagonists to the issue are split a perfect 50/50 among the public. But when did that ever happen?
Most if not all Human issues are complex and there are as many different views of it as there are members of the public. How then does a journalist of editor judge what the perfect balance of reportage should be?
It is inevitable that ‘balance’ is to some degree subjective, and will vary across media outlets according to their judgement and personal inclination – and it will be nearly impossible for any one outlet to get balance perfect – let alone all outlets.
3. ‘Perfect balance’ is not actually desirable!
When you access The Guardian, or Independent, or Huffington Post, or Al Jazeera, or The Daily Blog, or The Standard…..do you want them to be ‘perfectly balanced’ in their reporting?
Or do you expect them to be showing a ‘balance’ of reporting somewhere in line with your own worldview of what is ‘right’ and ‘important’?
Think about it. What would the difference between those outlets be if each one was striving to achieve a ‘perfect balance’ of all different views? Fuck all eh?
And more disturbingly, think about what kind of mechanism would be necessary in order to establish a standard of ‘balance’, and how that would be imposed? Yup, we’re back in the territory of repressive governments again…
4. The Public have a critical faculty of their own with which to filter bias. This means that even when bias exists, it’s ability to ‘distort’ an individuals opinions is very limited.
‘Balance’ is actually provided by having a wide variety of free media outlets that are freely available to the public, and allowing the public free rein to choose among them, and make up their own minds about what they actually think.
Happily, That’s the situation here in Aotearoa, as reflected in our World Press Freedom ranking.
So I reckon you can stop worrying about Granny.
Did I quote The Herald? Did I say I was worried about them?
1. in an environment where an educated public have access to many media sources, it is impossible for a single media outlet of the size of The Herald to produce enough bias to have an appreciable effect on ‘public discourse’.
That depends what the other media sources report.
2. There’s no such thing as a “balance” between facts and bullshit. Take the “debate” about the Greenhouse Effect, for example.
3. If opinions can’t be swayed why does the National Party spend so much money on ratfucking and propaganda? Whither advertising? Why does Bill English say low income earners pay no tax while John Key says they’ll have to pay for the tertiary education budget?
In short, reporting lies isn’t “balance”. Facts don’t have sides. The “story” is as like as not “PM caught lying. Again”.
As i point out above. the fact that the NZ public has numerous free media outlets to freely access ensures that no one outlet can, or is, limiting the free flow of information.
There’s no such thing as a “balance” between facts and bullshit. Take the “debate” about the Greenhouse Effect, for example.
Of course there is no ‘balance’ between facts and bullshit. For the very obvious reason that there is a substantial blurred line between those two states. As a compulsive obfuscatator, you should know that better than most.
Yes, take Greenhouse debate. Over the many years since it was first raised (1824), how often have the ‘facts’ changed? How long were the ‘facts’ in debate before enough of a consensus emerged to establish even the basic premise as a widely accepted ‘fact’? Even now how many aspects of the effect are still in debate? How many ‘facts’ will change as research and debate evolve?
So tell me me OAB, over the years the evolving issue has been in the media, and so many ‘facts’ were unknown or in debate, how would journalists and editors have gone about ensuring that they were only printing ‘facts’?
In short, reporting lies isn’t “balance”. Facts don’t have sides. The “story” is as like as not “PM caught lying. Again”.
You seem to be assuming it is the role of the media to arbitrate the ‘truth’, and then filter the news so that ‘truth’ is all we have presented to us.
It is not of course.
The medias role is to present us with the whole glorious mess of stuff that is out there, and let us make up our own minds what is truth and what is lies.
I’ve read enough from you OAB to know that your problem with this is that you believe ‘the people’ are stupid empty vessels with no free will and therefore incapable of assessing the validity of what is put in front of them. Behind your complaints about the media, I sense a yearning for a Ministry of Truth that would do that for them.
If opinions can’t be swayed why does the National Party spend so much money on ratfucking and propaganda? Whither advertising? Why does Bill English say low income earners pay no tax while John Key says they’ll have to pay for the tertiary education budget?
See above. Because if you have a message you want to put in front of people and give them the opportunity to agree or disagree.
Once again, you are assuming that because a message is put in front of someone, it must influence them against their free will and own critical faculty.
It does not.
Does all advertising succeed? Does all political propaganda have the desired effect?
As Orwell said, “Propaganda is only effective with people who are already inclined to accept it”.
In short OAB, you and the others on this forum that have an unhealthy conspiracy tinged obsession with the theory that the media is the reason your ‘message’ is not being adopted by the majority of the people, need to drop that delusion.
The issue is with the message itself.
The medias role is to present us with the whole glorious mess of stuff that is out there, and let us make up our own minds what is truth and what is lies.
No, it isn’t: this is the very stuff of false balance. As I said: your beliefs say something about you: in this case that you don’t have the first inkling what a journal of record is.
Has it never occurred to you to wonder why people who’ve been overseas have a low opinion of our “news” media? Or why you Righties always think that academics have a left-wing bias, to the extent that you have to set up think tanks because you can’t pass peer review?
While you’re thinking about those questions of something to say, here’s another: if journalism consists of writing down any old shit and letting the public decide, why do we have s.68 of the evidence act and a Press Council?
What’s the matter? My answer didn’t fit your preconceptions? Or are you incapable of joining the dots between journalistic freedom, the rule of law, the bill of rights and money in politics?
Must I spell it all out for you in one syllable words?
You asked me what I’d do about this particular issue: I thought about it, and those are the things I’d do.
The matter is that you are avoiding making an honest answer to a perfectly straightforward question.
So yes, do please spell it out in very clear and simple terms.
If you genuinely believe the ‘measures’ you suggest would lead to a change in the ‘balance’ of media information in NZ, can you please explain exactly what the specific ‘mechanisms’ would be that cause that change?
I honestly don’t know if I can be bothered. It’s difficult, teaching is so much harder than learning, whine whine it’s too hot and humid for that kind of effort please don’t make me.
1. Getting money out of politics: propaganda relies on repetition, effective repetition costs money.
2. The BoRA provides tools by which the citizenry can defend themselves against institutional wrongdoing.
3. The rule of law makes politicians (and the Crown) answerable to the same rules as everyone else.
4. Te Tiriti O Waitangi is the founding document of our nation – it also provides checks and balances against authoritarian predations.
See, that wasn’t so hard was it? I even had to think.
I asked you specifically about mechanisms that would change the way The Media currently apply (false) ‘balance’.
None of the measures you quote contain any such mechanism?
1. Would change the way Political Parties put forward information, but it would not effect the ability of The Media to present that information with what ever ‘balance’ they chose.
2, 3, and 4 are all existing structures that are part of the environment The Media currently operate under, and so without changing them in some way, they contain no mechanism that would require The Media to change their behavior.
So the measures you quote would have no effect what so ever in addressing ‘false balance’ or the publication of ‘lies’ in The Media?
As for 2, 3 and 4, they’re insufficiently entrenched. Entrenching them would assist opportunities that are presently being throttled by vested interests.
If you believe that wouldn’t change local media behaviour I suggest you try thinking about it.
“Why do you say “require” the media to change? Is your authoritarian bias showing?
No, YOU are the one who started this thread with a complaint about about Media ‘false balance’, and YOU are the one saying it would be desirable to change that.
I’m just very interested to know how specifically you would go about it.
On that note, you are still talking in exceeding vague terms OAB.
Specifically HOW would you further entrench 2,3,4? Specifically WHAT opportunities would that ‘assist’? Specifically HOW would that change media behaviour?
And, if you ‘took the money’ out of politics, specifically HOW would that alter the ability of the media to chose to publish whatever political ‘balance’ they chose?
These should be easy questions to answer in a straightforward manner?
Your entire bullshit rests on the fatuous drivel that I want to compel the media to do things my way. Are you so fucking dense you can’t conceive other ways to affect change?
That’s all you’re getting this evening – I’m having far too much fun afk.
Nah, still can’t be bothered: what’s the point in explaining it to you again – especially since you seem to think shouting at me is some sort of debating strategy.
You advocate moves to to ‘change the balance of power’, but you are not willing to be specific about exactly what you mean by politspeak phrases like “Entrenching them would assist opportunities”.
Naturally, I always see a flag raised when people are not willing to openly discuss their proposals. After all the discussion around that very point re. the TPPA, i thought most people here agree secrecy is a very bad thing.
So what is your reason for not being willing to openly specify how you would ‘adjust the balance of power’?
At a rough guess, I’d say your references to ‘authoritarianism’ above are a clue.
You know that there is no way you can ‘adjust the balance of power’ without invoking mechanisms that most people would see as increasing the level of the states involvement / control in such matters. You might look a bit like you were advocating something that was authoritarian in short.
‘Remove money from politics’ and ‘Further entrench Te Tiriti O Waitangi, BORA, The rule of Law, are not specifics OAB, they are generalities.
They give as no indication what so ever as to exactly what specific changes to those mechanisms or their role in law you would propose.
The devil is in the detail as they say, and frankly the range of possibilities you leave open by being so vague is extremely wide, if not open ended. Under that circumstance I think it is only fair to have a healthy interest in what the details might be?
So if you have nothing to hide, it should be no problem for you to detail a few of the specific changes you would make to those mechanisms in order to adjust the balance of power?
That’s a straight forward enough question isn’t it?
Do you understand the meaning of the word ‘entrench’ in this context? It’s self-explanatory.
Similarly, repairing the rule of law is self-explanatory. It probably involves little more than re-funding the various watch-dogs the National Party has ratfucked. Perhaps a firm statement from the AG to the judiciary re-establishing the Crown’s commitment. After that leave it to the bench.
As for getting money out of politics, some variation on ‘one person one dollar one vote’ might work, and I’d like to see info on how other countries address the issue before going any further.
‘Entrench’ is obvious. It means you would change the current status of some legislation in relation to those mechanisms.
What exactly you would change, and therefore how deep the ‘entrenchment’ went…..?
It’s a bit like a mechanic telling you he is going to ‘repair’ your car, and when you asked him ‘how’ he was going to repair it, he answers that he has already explained that he is going to he is going to repair it…isn’t that self explanatory ad nauseum.
As for getting money out of politics, and theories like the ‘one person, one dollar, one vote’ thing, yes they are very problematic.
I do note however, that there does not seem to be much debate around such things in NZ?
Perhaps that is because there isn’t actually much of a concern that money is in fact significantly distorting the democratic will of the people here?
Are you aware of any credible research that suggest it is?
lol
so sheepy doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Big surprise there /sarc
“Entrench” has a precise meaning. When a precise meaning is applied to specific documents, then that constitutes a specific, exact, and straightforward description of the action under consideration.
Hi Molly (1.1.4) – Yes, Seems this is a habit of NZH. It puts opinions across, sometimes inviting comments, but doesn’t open the article for debate. On the odd occasion, the opinion piece is open for discussion, but that’s the case more often than not, usually well after the topic has been relegated far into the realms of history!
I guess that keeps a smooth and even playing field for msm’s dear leader.
Eight years of incompetent and reckless mismanagement of the economy and we are starting feel the effects.
When are Key and his clowns going to be held to account?
Thanks i read the link. Can’t find anything in it to say john key is to blame for the fall dairy prices. May we can blame key for the drop in oil as well.
John Key is responsible for everything bad that happens anywhere in the world.
He was, after all, the one who created the Ebola virus and is almost certainly the person who has unleashed the Zika virus as well.
To keep up with the play you only need to remember one thing.
“Everything is John Key’s fault”
True.
Both the cricket and the tennis.
On the other hand I am quite willing to forgive him fixing the outcome of the 2011 and 2015 Rugby World Cups.
I never forgave the last lot for messing up the 2007 competition’s result.
It is quite hard for National to totally avoid figures from the underworld.
National sit on the Speaker’s right. The underworld figures sit directly opposite them on the Speaker’s left, all 32 of them.
National MPs have to sit there and look at them.
I blame the 2007 cock-up on Helen not keeping the arrangements in her own office. H2 would have so terrified the other teams they would have thrown the games. Instead she passed it over to that twerp Trevor Mallard.
It only seem’s like yesterday that Key and Co were prepared to take credit for the headline act of the rock star economy – Taranaki -. The land of black & white “gold”. Of course the diminishing returns on both commodities is out of the control of government, but so also is being able to claim any credit when returns were great.
John Key and National are to blame because they supported, both through legislation and rhetoric, the ramping up of the dairy sector. They should have been pushing diversification instead.
Is it just me or did the Tory idiots on this board, just take a statement which blamed this national government for economic mismanagement, and turn it into commentators on the standard bagging Key.
Paul did say ” Key and his clowns”, which means this national government.
Poor Tory scum, who have to twist things to feel better.
New information released by the board shows 44 people had cancelled the service since January 18… In explanation, the board said it had not been aware of cancellations handled by its own staff, and only counted cancellations handled by Compass Group…
Grey Power has taken issue with a claim it gave good feedback to the meals in a taste-testing session held last year.
In a statement, Ms Heatly said Grey Power and others gave “positive feedback” after the sessions.
Grey Power Otago president Jo Millar said this was incorrect, and she believed the situation was misrepresented.
Mrs Millar said the test meals were not good, and the group was told there was an issue with the oven.
Yesterday, it was 11 cancellations (but the link to that article on the ODT is 502 broken, this update has the gist):
Information provided to the Otago Daily Times this afternoon shows 44 people have cancelled in the past two weeks – not 11 as the board previously said.
Even 11 cancellations would be a 4.4% in a fortnight, which if it continued at the same rate would leave no one by the end of the year. 44 of 250 is 17.6%, and if continued would go to zero by April!
In these days of mass communication and the worlds cultures exposed and crashing into each other all over the place, it seems it is very difficult to avoid sensitivities in many many places, simply because people do not know of said sensitivities….
I really don’t think it is that hard to either get it right or err on the side of caution.
i’m calmish at the moment but later on i’m going to allow my anger to come forth. I’m very disappointed that this shit is happening here – but maybe I’m just not taking the hint eh.
Yeah I see that. Perhaps in this world of crashing cultures people should err on the side of caution.
After all, that is what we all do when we go into people’s homes – err on the side of caution. We don’t go in and barge around with no manners – that would just be plain rude.
It might take some more time for the internet culture to grasp these things though – it is still rough, young, and raw imo.
In the days of mass communication and 40 years of the Māori renaissance into the view of Pākehā, how is it that the left wing is still so ignorant of such matters?
I don’t mean ignorant as pejorative, just a statement of fact about our (Pākehā) lack of knowledge. When I saw the picture I had a pretty negative gut reaction to it (there was something very wrong with it), considered saying something but didn’t know what to say and then scrolled on past. As soon as marty posted that it was offensive, I went ‘duh!’, of course. Even with the little bit of exposure to te Ao Māori that I’ve had, I know that there are issues with both messing with heads, and messing with ritual.
If we (all of us) want left wing spaces to be anything other than Pākehā dominant, this is not the kind of thing we can get wrong. Also, we (Pākehā) do get this stuff wrong a lot, so it’s not about having a go at whoever put it up, but I think there is an opportunity here to learn and to change.
I think the image should be removed, in the same way if a misogynistic image had been put up it should be removed too.
Maybe the image should have been removed. But removing it now means that any discussion around it becomes meaningless.
I saw it last night (prior to any comments about it) and felt very uncomfortable with it, but couldn’t quite articulate why. Because I couldn’t pin down exactly what was wrong with it, I didn’t comment, and just moved on. I still can’t. Maybe I’ll get there and the penny will drop.
Heads are of no particular significance to me, so the source of my discomfort isn’t the same as for Marty being offended. Regardless, the image comes across as (somehow) just plain fucking wrong and racist.
How’d I feel if it was pigs heads or some such? How’d I feel if it was pigs bodies? The former would be as similarly (though maybe more obviously) fucked up as the one posted, and the latter would be just another photo mash up.
Maybe I’ll come back to this conversation later today and see if the penny drops.
the ignorance around Māoridom on here is astounding and disgusting. Fucking embarrassing – seriously I don’t know why I bother – oh that’s right I’m trying to help alleviate ignorance – waste of time
that is not directed solely at you bill as I’m sure you will realise but ffs
I agree with that and fully acknowledge my understanding of Māoridom is woeful. But having said that, is knowledge of Māoridom really necessary in this instance marty?
If it is, then ignorance of a specific cultural perspective potentially serves to get perpetrators of offence off the hook.
I mean, if a similar photo had been produced with the heads photo-shopped onto the bodies of some First Nations people, I’d have had the same basic reaction.
For me, as best as I articulate at the moment, there is something unacceptable about presenting an image that over-lays colonised peoples/cultures with expressions or signifiers of colonial dominance.
That perspective is neither ‘right’ nor ‘wrong’, ‘adequate’ or ‘inadequate’…just illustrative of the fact that there can be a number of roads leading to the same basic conclusion.
Except the issues around heads and ritual, if not learned about, just come up again in another context some other time and so it goes on, because we ignored the specifics. So yes, it’s good to recognise the general racism issues and on our own terms, but it’s also vital that we learn what is important to Māori.
Criticising/understanding the image from a Tau Iwi perspective is useful, but not if it’s done at the expense of understanding the Māori one.
It’s not just about this one image, it’s about the fact that this space is still so bad at this, and the only way to remedy that is to learn some tikanga Māori. That’s honouring the Treaty too.
Which brings me to the fact that as much as I’d love to hear and would welcome marty’s thoughts at this point (and other Māori Standardistas), it’s not up to him (or other Māori) to educate Tau Iwi here about what the specific issues are. Thankfully we have the internet now and there’s no reason why some non-Māori here can’t go and educate ourselves. I don’t think the internet is the best way to learn what’s important by any means, but at least we do have resources in the public domain from Māori, and Tau Iwi who have done the mahi of listening to Māori directly on Māori terms. It’s the least we can do to get up to speed with those. Then perhaps we might find that Māori are willing to be here and engage more.
Is it really necessary (web wise) to have comprehensive knowledge of particular cultures in order to not offend people?
If it is, then when and where do we find the time to lift our heads from all that cultural immersion of the 1001 cultures we’ve indulged in?
And how does one ‘correctly’ navigate instances where aspects of particular cultures are themselves considered offensive to, contradict or clash with, one’s own?
In the final analysis I’d rather a world with no cultural identities or tradition given the nonsense and conflict it all has and does give rise to, but hey…
…in the meantime, and in recognition that I can’t learn, store or reconcile all the cultural and traditional knowledges out there, I’ll just have to settle for using whatever (culturally informed 😉 ) common sense and sensibility or empathy I have in order to avoid inadvertently and somewhat pointlessly offering up offence.
you live here Bill maybe start with the cultural aspects of this country – Waitangi Day is here – go to a marae for the ‘celebration’ – that might be a good first step
really sorry you’ve had to deal with this marty. Thanks for taking us to task despite it all. I’ll support you in any way I can if you want more to happen here (I’ve got my own RL mahi going on over the next few days so will be in and out). I’m doing some thinking about what I can do otherwise as well. Hope you can take good care of yourself too.
Marty, please forgive my ignorance: how far does the sacred nature of the head extend? For example, does it apply to (say) drawn caricature? Or doodling on a newspaper photograph? Pakeha have been juxtaposing heads and bodies to comic effect for centuries. That’s not meant to be some sort of excuse it’s just true.
My atheist side wants to reject the whole notion of “sacred” as I would any other mumbo pocus, and yet these are the terms I employ to ridicule the religions and spirituality of my own culture, and I feel quite uncomfortable with them in this context, as I would for example, in going to a Buddhist or Hindu country and mocking their beliefs.
I think this example that pissed me off was too far. Whether sacred or special the head is used as a target for insult and ridicule across the board here and elsewhere – just got to be careful about who to and how specific.
I’m okay with that approach from the atheist side too – I prefer it to the ‘my god is better’ approach of other belief systems.
“Maybe the image should have been removed. But removing it now means that any discussion around it becomes meaningless.”
I think the standard group should take it’s direction directly from Māori on that rather than deciding what is meaningful or not (I’m sidestepping the whole anarchic, who makes decisions etc thing). Which means not just listening but making an effort to find out (thanks for your comment btw).
Thanks for putting your hand up as one of the most ignorant people in the room (quite an achievement that) as well as one of the biggest shit stirrers. Well done BM.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.
I think that’s looking at it arse about face: in any given situation (especially one which might further your interests), would you rather give offence deliberately or from ignorance?
Had I seen marty’s comment last night (not to mention the others) it would have reinforced my gut reaction and I’ve have replaced the image. (Without my gut reaction, the same action would likely have been taken)
The point I was making here is that time has elapsed and that a conversation has ensued – one that might be productive, but also one that would seem to rely on the source of the discussion being available.
It’s been done. It’s shit. Hitting a delete button now doesn’t undo what’s been done..doesn’t catch shit from sailing towards the fan.
That makes sense and if it were say a gender issue I might agree (depending on the image). I guess my point is that it’s not up to us to decide whether that takes predecent because we don’t have the cultural knowledge on which it make the decision.
The ensuing conversation can still happen, it just requires those of us who have seen the image to explain what the issues are. That’s probably a good thing, because it makes it about the cultural safety issue rather than that particular photo.
I chose the picture. I can recall a while ago using the Key picture with the tattoed Merril Lynch face and you raised concern and I was happy to take it down and have not used it since.
I thought about this when I chose this picture but I did not think it would cause offence because Maori have made a very principled decision concerning the TPPA and the picture was to poke fun at the Government and its lack of Maori support.
Clearly I will need to recalibrate my thinking on the issue.
My apologies for my lack of sensitivity and causing distress.
The current media frenzy over Key/Harawiras /Waitangi is great publicity and the result will be reported as positive for Key.
Greatest show in Aotearoa written and produced by Crosby Textor.
The US Senate will not be voting on the TPP in 2016. So we won’t see any vote on it until after the presidential election most likely.
And the 4 possible Presidents – Hillary, Bernie, Ted Cruz, and Trump – all say they oppose the TPP. So is the TPP dead? Well, maybe at least for another year…
The first power the Constitution confers upon the president is the veto. The Presentment Clause requires any bill passed by Congress to be presented to the president before it can become law… the bill does not become law, unless each house of Congress votes to override the veto by a two-thirds vote.
If you follow the links: “Historically, the Congress overrides the Presidential veto less than 10% of the time”. Although that was 33% of GW Bush’s 12 vetos and 0% so far of Obama’s 9. FDR had 635 vetos with only 9 over-ridden!
The Congress cannot negotiate or pursue trade agreements itself, it can only vote on them. Only the President can actually do the negotiation, bring it to the Congress, and then sign it.
And in latest competition removal news fletchers look to acquire higgins. Higgins were bought into rangiriri bypass on sh1 as fletchers screwed the first earthmoving crowd so hard they went broke.
So send one out of business then buy one of the remaining players, tough decision for fletchers that one.
Clearly all the people spending so much time commenting on this site don’t live in Wellington.
At the moment it a warm (well 26C) day with an absolutely cloudless blue sky and the barest hint of a breeze. I have just come inside to collect my togs to go to the beach.
It is far to nice to waste any more time indoors.
It doesn’t rhyme very well but locals here are singing “wonderful, wonderful Wellington, salty old dame of the sea”.
Eat your heart out jafas. I believe you are cloudy and it is very windy.
Seems Alwyn and his now banned stablemate fisiani are Wellington people and that makes a lot of sense because their glossy views on the state of the nation are consistent with a Wellington centric outlook on life. Basically, it’s the same old right wing mantra: I’m alright, so why can’t you be too?
Well, speaking as a life-long resident of Welling-on-Sea, New Zealand’s answer to the French Riviera (in fact, some would go as far as saying The Venice of the South), can I just say that Wellington is second only to Dunedin in its Left-leaning proclivities (alwyn and fisi represent a dysfunctional, Tory-leaning minority of grizzled malcontents).
The good burghers of my unusually fetching city (very much Cinderella to Jaffaville’s Ugly Big Sister*) are significantly to the Left of that humid, half-crazed cultural wasteland in the North.
* I suspect I’ll pay dearly for the previous 3 words.
You are generous, Anne, and it’s a credit to you. I’ve not time for the incessant barbed attacks on social responsibility from the likes of Alwyn and fisiani.
An attempt at the joke from these types leaves me cold.
Eat your heart out jafas. I believe you are cloudy and it is very windy.
You have been misinformed. Beautiful sunny day (27 degrees) with a cooling easterly breeze. A few small and harmless cumulous clouds wafting by to give brief respite from the wall to wall sunshine.
I believe you. And I believe DTB.
On a day as gorgeous as this I will believe almost anything.
I looked at one of the weather sites which said that about Auckland.
It is now still calm and clear and the temperature is back down to 26C. According to the Met Office it got to 28C, although the thermometer in my car said 30C (in the shade).
“Wonderful, wonderful etc, etc.”
…Why is Europe not looking at the root causes of the refugee crisis?
…Are the ordinary people being listened to ?
…or are political elites foisting their views against the will of the people of sovereign democratic nations?
….Issues of listening to the grassroots opinions of indigenous people in sovereign nations on mass refugee influx /immigration ….and its effects on sovereignty and cultural identity of nations
“When it comes to mass migration and the current refugee crisis hitting the EU, it is getting harder and harder to remain an idealist. The reality is that Europe not only must manage its external borders, but also internal ones. There are of course economic issues to deal with, but what about the importance of culture?
CrossTalking with Marcus Papadopoulos, Matthew Goodwin and Alan Posener.”
Mike “I Agree With Matthew” Williams is now
spouting nonsense about AMERICAN politics The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 3 March 2016
Jim Mora, Simon Pound, Mike Williams, Julie Moffett
The Pre-Panel segment today is, once again, vacuous and determinedly trivial. As usual, they say nothing interesting….
JULIE MOFFETT: Comedian Jerry Seinfeld is selling three of his luxury Porsches. That’s out of his collection of 47.
JIM MORA: He’s got 47 has he?
JULIE MOFFETT:[curtly, after a significant pause] Yes.
MORA: They’d stop being drivable wouldn’t they, just languishing in the garage?
JULIE MOFFETT: They’re not languishing, he’s got a full-time mechanic working on them.
MORA: He’s got a mechanic?
….et cetera, ad nauseam….
An hour later, they’re discussing American politics with about the same level of insight you’d expect on Larry “Lackwit” Williams’ Drivetime program over on NewstalkZB….
MIKE “I AGREE WITH MATTHEW” WILLIAMS: Ted Cruz is an extremist, and so is Bernie Sanders.
On the plus side, Simon Pound was both lucid and intelligent, but the sad fact is that this program has ten Mike Williams equivalents for every Simon Pound.
The right wing media are loving this. The plaintive cries from Hosking, Ralston, and Williams that the office of the prime minister should be respected on this issue, the issue of the prime minister’s right to attend Waitangi falls on deaf ears as far as I’m concerned because the it has been the prime minister himself who has disrespected the office in recent times…
His kid’s baseball over Kiwi soldiers
Presides over increasing public sector corruption
Calls a red top ‘gay’ in perforative terms
Ignores the OIA and is comfortable with it
Harasses waitresses in their place of work
Sets the SIS on the leader of the opposition
Texts his bud, hate speech peddler, Cameron Slater
Jokes with the Chilean government about a killer his corrections dept just released
Entertains shock jocks…
…and participates in jokes about prison rape
Chops and changes ministers to minimise accountability
I am reminded of the vitriolic response by the media (including the Herald) when Helen Clark forsook going to Waitangi and attended another ceremony in the South Island- I think. And the reason why she didn’t attend was because she had previously been denied speaking rights. Helen (rightly) took that as an insult to her as a female political leader and also women across the board.
The one that gets me is Armstrong’s ‘Resign Cunliffe’ rant. Even Armstrong was ashamed of it – not in time to save the election of course.
Helen handled it about right – though she didn’t have a good answer to it on the day she got disrespected.
Key should be there as PM – but speaking rights are not a given – if I were Maori I wouldn’t want him grandstanding from Waitangi. He should go to listen – God knows he never does anywhere else.
No Daily Review so will leave here
Methinks the NAct government is in a bit of a tizz!
Just had call from David Farrar’s Curia outfit. Started out with the usual. Who are you voting for… why etc.etc. Went on to ask “which is the best party for:
1. the economy
2. housing
3. education
4. immigration
5. employment issues
and there were others.
Next:
Who is the best political leader – rate them from 1 to 5 with 5 being the top score.
Who is the strongest leader – ditto
Further questions on what you look for in a leader.
At the end of all that:
Who will win the next election.
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
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Another day, another piece of spin for the TPP from the Herald. This time it’s Audrey Young doing her owners’ bidding.
After years of not reporting it, now they seem to be advertising it.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11583642
And if you go to the Politics page of the Herald (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=280) you will also find the 2 articles below that are highly critical of the TPPA Paul.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11583470
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11573810
Would you call those ‘spin’ also?
Seems to me The Herald is reporting both sides of the story.
Your problem is that you wake up each morning with only one eye open a bad case of confirmation bias.
2 goulds – hmm
what about the multiple audreys, frans, claires, etc etc
yes the herald does have some critical articles – but its pretty hard to deny that they arent engaging in a ramp up of once over lightly, put down the dissenters, spin articles
Ok – im really only looking at the opinion section there so will freely admit theres stuff i dont see
If its anything positive for the government its spin, if its anything negative for the government then its good, honest, unbiased reporting
This (below) was interesting.
Who is Gregory Baughen?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11573810
wow
spin isnt defined by a binary + or – argument is it
I guess the people who were in favour of the editorial about the Green costing proposal the other day won’t be quite as keen on today’s editorial.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11583567
True.
Produce an honest good number for the government – let’s do an easy one – How many houses has Nick Smith built in Auckland?
I’m betting it’s less than half a dozen.
This ‘government’ is completely worthless – they cost more and achieve less than any previous NZ government – and by golly the competition isn’t stellar.
Seems to me The Herald is reporting both sides of the story.
You’ve heard of the phrase “false balance”, I’m sure.
Perhaps you’re even aware of the argument that it distorts public discourse.
It might pay you to think about this a bit harder. Yes, that again.
You’ve heard of the phrase “false balance”, I’m sure.
I’m sure you are aware that there are actually several manifestations of ‘false balance’, including the very common use of it as an attempt to avoid bias.
So unless you have a specific allegation of a specific use of ‘false balance’ by The Herald? I’ll take it that you are simply pulling your usual trick of implying something dark and then leaving the believers to join up the dots in the way that best suits their personal bias.
Perhaps you’re even aware of the argument that it distorts public discourse.
Yes. And you may be aware of some of the objections and qualifications to that argument.
1. In order for ‘public discourse’ to be significantly distorted, a specific manifestation of ‘false balance’ would need to be consistently applied to a sufficiently large bloc of all available media.
In simple terms, in an environment where an educated public have access to many media sources, it is impossible for a single media outlet of the size of The Herald to produce enough bias to have an appreciable effect on ‘public discourse’. (This is why truly repressive Governments always have overt media control as a priority).
2. ‘Truly balanced’ reporting is an impossibility.
Except perhaps in a case where there are no factors involved that are open to dispute, and the protagonists to the issue are split a perfect 50/50 among the public. But when did that ever happen?
Most if not all Human issues are complex and there are as many different views of it as there are members of the public. How then does a journalist of editor judge what the perfect balance of reportage should be?
It is inevitable that ‘balance’ is to some degree subjective, and will vary across media outlets according to their judgement and personal inclination – and it will be nearly impossible for any one outlet to get balance perfect – let alone all outlets.
3. ‘Perfect balance’ is not actually desirable!
When you access The Guardian, or Independent, or Huffington Post, or Al Jazeera, or The Daily Blog, or The Standard…..do you want them to be ‘perfectly balanced’ in their reporting?
Or do you expect them to be showing a ‘balance’ of reporting somewhere in line with your own worldview of what is ‘right’ and ‘important’?
Think about it. What would the difference between those outlets be if each one was striving to achieve a ‘perfect balance’ of all different views? Fuck all eh?
And more disturbingly, think about what kind of mechanism would be necessary in order to establish a standard of ‘balance’, and how that would be imposed? Yup, we’re back in the territory of repressive governments again…
4. The Public have a critical faculty of their own with which to filter bias. This means that even when bias exists, it’s ability to ‘distort’ an individuals opinions is very limited.
‘Balance’ is actually provided by having a wide variety of free media outlets that are freely available to the public, and allowing the public free rein to choose among them, and make up their own minds about what they actually think.
Happily, That’s the situation here in Aotearoa, as reflected in our World Press Freedom ranking.
So I reckon you can stop worrying about Granny.
Did I quote The Herald? Did I say I was worried about them?
1. in an environment where an educated public have access to many media sources, it is impossible for a single media outlet of the size of The Herald to produce enough bias to have an appreciable effect on ‘public discourse’.
That depends what the other media sources report.
2. There’s no such thing as a “balance” between facts and bullshit. Take the “debate” about the Greenhouse Effect, for example.
3. If opinions can’t be swayed why does the National Party spend so much money on ratfucking and propaganda? Whither advertising? Why does Bill English say low income earners pay no tax while John Key says they’ll have to pay for the tertiary education budget?
In short, reporting lies isn’t “balance”. Facts don’t have sides. The “story” is as like as not “PM caught lying. Again”.
That depends what the other media sources report.
As i point out above. the fact that the NZ public has numerous free media outlets to freely access ensures that no one outlet can, or is, limiting the free flow of information.
There’s no such thing as a “balance” between facts and bullshit. Take the “debate” about the Greenhouse Effect, for example.
Of course there is no ‘balance’ between facts and bullshit. For the very obvious reason that there is a substantial blurred line between those two states. As a compulsive obfuscatator, you should know that better than most.
Yes, take Greenhouse debate. Over the many years since it was first raised (1824), how often have the ‘facts’ changed? How long were the ‘facts’ in debate before enough of a consensus emerged to establish even the basic premise as a widely accepted ‘fact’? Even now how many aspects of the effect are still in debate? How many ‘facts’ will change as research and debate evolve?
So tell me me OAB, over the years the evolving issue has been in the media, and so many ‘facts’ were unknown or in debate, how would journalists and editors have gone about ensuring that they were only printing ‘facts’?
In short, reporting lies isn’t “balance”. Facts don’t have sides. The “story” is as like as not “PM caught lying. Again”.
You seem to be assuming it is the role of the media to arbitrate the ‘truth’, and then filter the news so that ‘truth’ is all we have presented to us.
It is not of course.
The medias role is to present us with the whole glorious mess of stuff that is out there, and let us make up our own minds what is truth and what is lies.
I’ve read enough from you OAB to know that your problem with this is that you believe ‘the people’ are stupid empty vessels with no free will and therefore incapable of assessing the validity of what is put in front of them. Behind your complaints about the media, I sense a yearning for a Ministry of Truth that would do that for them.
If opinions can’t be swayed why does the National Party spend so much money on ratfucking and propaganda? Whither advertising? Why does Bill English say low income earners pay no tax while John Key says they’ll have to pay for the tertiary education budget?
See above. Because if you have a message you want to put in front of people and give them the opportunity to agree or disagree.
Once again, you are assuming that because a message is put in front of someone, it must influence them against their free will and own critical faculty.
It does not.
Does all advertising succeed? Does all political propaganda have the desired effect?
As Orwell said, “Propaganda is only effective with people who are already inclined to accept it”.
In short OAB, you and the others on this forum that have an unhealthy conspiracy tinged obsession with the theory that the media is the reason your ‘message’ is not being adopted by the majority of the people, need to drop that delusion.
The issue is with the message itself.
In fact, journalism involves a fair degree of fact-checking.
The rest of your bullshit says something about you, and nothing whatsoever about me.
‘Bullshit’ that you have no counter arguments to?
O.K.
Since your bullshit consists of assertions about me, what “argument” do I need other than to point out that fact?
Why don’t you get a PR company or think tank to figure out an answer for you: it’s not like anyone credible would waste their time.
The medias role is to present us with the whole glorious mess of stuff that is out there, and let us make up our own minds what is truth and what is lies.
No, it isn’t: this is the very stuff of false balance. As I said: your beliefs say something about you: in this case that you don’t have the first inkling what a journal of record is.
you don’t have the first inkling what a journal of record is.
Yes, but i don’t see what that has to do with the discussion above, unless it is that you think we should have one?
Here’s a little clue: journal, journalism.
Has it never occurred to you to wonder why people who’ve been overseas have a low opinion of our “news” media? Or why you Righties always think that academics have a left-wing bias, to the extent that you have to set up think tanks because you can’t pass peer review?
While you’re thinking
about those questionsof something to say, here’s another: if journalism consists of writing down any old shit and letting the public decide, why do we have s.68 of the evidence act and a Press Council?Think.
If you believe the current situation is not satisfactory OAB, what changes would you advocate?
Get money out of politics.
Entrench te Tiriti O Waitangi and the BoRA.
Repair the rule of law.
A bit shy about giving a honest answer OAB?
This is an honest debating forum, so I’d really like you to answer my question directly please.
What’s the matter? My answer didn’t fit your preconceptions? Or are you incapable of joining the dots between journalistic freedom, the rule of law, the bill of rights and money in politics?
Must I spell it all out for you in one syllable words?
You asked me what I’d do about this particular issue: I thought about it, and those are the things I’d do.
The matter is that you are avoiding making an honest answer to a perfectly straightforward question.
So yes, do please spell it out in very clear and simple terms.
If you genuinely believe the ‘measures’ you suggest would lead to a change in the ‘balance’ of media information in NZ, can you please explain exactly what the specific ‘mechanisms’ would be that cause that change?
it seems that monosyllabic it must be 🙂
I honestly don’t know if I can be bothered. It’s difficult, teaching is so much harder than learning, whine whine it’s too hot and humid for that kind of effort please don’t make me.
1. Getting money out of politics: propaganda relies on repetition, effective repetition costs money.
2. The BoRA provides tools by which the citizenry can defend themselves against institutional wrongdoing.
3. The rule of law makes politicians (and the Crown) answerable to the same rules as everyone else.
4. Te Tiriti O Waitangi is the founding document of our nation – it also provides checks and balances against authoritarian predations.
See, that wasn’t so hard was it? I even had to think.
I asked you specifically about mechanisms that would change the way The Media currently apply (false) ‘balance’.
None of the measures you quote contain any such mechanism?
1. Would change the way Political Parties put forward information, but it would not effect the ability of The Media to present that information with what ever ‘balance’ they chose.
2, 3, and 4 are all existing structures that are part of the environment The Media currently operate under, and so without changing them in some way, they contain no mechanism that would require The Media to change their behavior.
So the measures you quote would have no effect what so ever in addressing ‘false balance’ or the publication of ‘lies’ in The Media?
Why do you say “require” the media to change? Is your authoritarian bias showing?
What do you think “getting money out of politics” entails? Perhaps you’re forgetting how much Crosby Textor charge per hour.
As for 2, 3 and 4, they’re insufficiently entrenched. Entrenching them would assist opportunities that are presently being throttled by vested interests.
If you believe that wouldn’t change local media behaviour I suggest you try thinking about it.
“Why do you say “require” the media to change? Is your authoritarian bias showing?
No, YOU are the one who started this thread with a complaint about about Media ‘false balance’, and YOU are the one saying it would be desirable to change that.
I’m just very interested to know how specifically you would go about it.
On that note, you are still talking in exceeding vague terms OAB.
Specifically HOW would you further entrench 2,3,4?
Specifically WHAT opportunities would that ‘assist’?
Specifically HOW would that change media behaviour?
And, if you ‘took the money’ out of politics, specifically HOW would that alter the ability of the media to chose to publish whatever political ‘balance’ they chose?
These should be easy questions to answer in a straightforward manner?
“Complaint” no, it’s an observation.
Your entire bullshit rests on the fatuous drivel that I want to compel the media to do things my way. Are you so fucking dense you can’t conceive other ways to affect change?
That’s all you’re getting this evening – I’m having far too much fun afk.
I might respond more fully tomorrow.
Nah, still can’t be bothered: what’s the point in explaining it to you again – especially since you seem to think shouting at me is some sort of debating strategy.
Those are the things I’d do. Get over it.
Hint: it’s all about the balance of power. That’s all you’re getting: if you need more clarity try re-reading my comments and thinking about them.
What I read in your comments is that there are some areas of your beliefs that you are not willing to discuss openly in a straightforward matter.
Wonder why that would be?
It’s because you’re confused about the meaning of words, and projecting your broken-ass preconceptions onto me.
You advocate moves to to ‘change the balance of power’, but you are not willing to be specific about exactly what you mean by politspeak phrases like “Entrenching them would assist opportunities”.
Naturally, I always see a flag raised when people are not willing to openly discuss their proposals. After all the discussion around that very point re. the TPPA, i thought most people here agree secrecy is a very bad thing.
So what is your reason for not being willing to openly specify how you would ‘adjust the balance of power’?
At a rough guess, I’d say your references to ‘authoritarianism’ above are a clue.
You know that there is no way you can ‘adjust the balance of power’ without invoking mechanisms that most people would see as increasing the level of the states involvement / control in such matters. You might look a bit like you were advocating something that was authoritarian in short.
I openly specified how I’d adjust the balance of power. Do you actually understand the meaning of words?
‘Remove money from politics’ and ‘Further entrench Te Tiriti O Waitangi, BORA, The rule of Law, are not specifics OAB, they are generalities.
They give as no indication what so ever as to exactly what specific changes to those mechanisms or their role in law you would propose.
The devil is in the detail as they say, and frankly the range of possibilities you leave open by being so vague is extremely wide, if not open ended. Under that circumstance I think it is only fair to have a healthy interest in what the details might be?
So if you have nothing to hide, it should be no problem for you to detail a few of the specific changes you would make to those mechanisms in order to adjust the balance of power?
That’s a straight forward enough question isn’t it?
Do you understand the meaning of the word ‘entrench’ in this context? It’s self-explanatory.
Similarly, repairing the rule of law is self-explanatory. It probably involves little more than re-funding the various watch-dogs the National Party has ratfucked. Perhaps a firm statement from the AG to the judiciary re-establishing the Crown’s commitment. After that leave it to the bench.
As for getting money out of politics, some variation on ‘one person one dollar one vote’ might work, and I’d like to see info on how other countries address the issue before going any further.
‘Entrench’ is obvious. It means you would change the current status of some legislation in relation to those mechanisms.
What exactly you would change, and therefore how deep the ‘entrenchment’ went…..?
It’s a bit like a mechanic telling you he is going to ‘repair’ your car, and when you asked him ‘how’ he was going to repair it, he answers that he has already explained that he is going to he is going to repair it…isn’t that self explanatory ad nauseum.
As for getting money out of politics, and theories like the ‘one person, one dollar, one vote’ thing, yes they are very problematic.
I do note however, that there does not seem to be much debate around such things in NZ?
Perhaps that is because there isn’t actually much of a concern that money is in fact significantly distorting the democratic will of the people here?
Are you aware of any credible research that suggest it is?
lol
so sheepy doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Big surprise there /sarc
“Entrench” has a precise meaning. When a precise meaning is applied to specific documents, then that constitutes a specific, exact, and straightforward description of the action under consideration.
Seek and ye shall find.
hint: >50+1
Another hint: 266
Both of Audrey’s articles have no comments.
Allowing her work to stand without visible criticism.
A common tactic when driving narrative.
Bryan Gould seems to be more robust, allowing comments and debate on what he has written.
Audrey’s stories are supposedly ‘news’.
Gould’s are contributed ‘opinion’.
Hi Molly (1.1.4) – Yes, Seems this is a habit of NZH. It puts opinions across, sometimes inviting comments, but doesn’t open the article for debate. On the odd occasion, the opinion piece is open for discussion, but that’s the case more often than not, usually well after the topic has been relegated far into the realms of history!
I guess that keeps a smooth and even playing field for msm’s dear leader.
No chance of debate, no chance of criticism!
Isn’t that just how a despotic leader likes it?
Eight years of incompetent and reckless mismanagement of the economy and we are starting feel the effects.
When are Key and his clowns going to be held to account?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11583451
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/76491017/nz-dairy-prices-drop-sharply-at-globaldairytrade-auction
Thanks i read the link. Can’t find anything in it to say john key is to blame for the fall dairy prices. May we can blame key for the drop in oil as well.
John Key is responsible for everything bad that happens anywhere in the world.
He was, after all, the one who created the Ebola virus and is almost certainly the person who has unleashed the Zika virus as well.
To keep up with the play you only need to remember one thing.
“Everything is John Key’s fault”
Pretty sure I saw John Key on the grassy knoll as well…
You mean in the Fed’s secret meetings
Shhh! That’s a secret!
I’ll bet the bugger nearly ruined your shot.
you forgot match fixing
True.
Both the cricket and the tennis.
On the other hand I am quite willing to forgive him fixing the outcome of the 2011 and 2015 Rugby World Cups.
I never forgave the last lot for messing up the 2007 competition’s result.
ah well the last lot didn’t have the contacts in the underworld did they
It is quite hard for National to totally avoid figures from the underworld.
National sit on the Speaker’s right. The underworld figures sit directly opposite them on the Speaker’s left, all 32 of them.
National MPs have to sit there and look at them.
I blame the 2007 cock-up on Helen not keeping the arrangements in her own office. H2 would have so terrified the other teams they would have thrown the games. Instead she passed it over to that twerp Trevor Mallard.
But according to John Key himself everything is Labour’s fault. Oh! and Helen Clark did it too.
It only seem’s like yesterday that Key and Co were prepared to take credit for the headline act of the rock star economy – Taranaki -. The land of black & white “gold”. Of course the diminishing returns on both commodities is out of the control of government, but so also is being able to claim any credit when returns were great.
John Key and National are to blame because they supported, both through legislation and rhetoric, the ramping up of the dairy sector. They should have been pushing diversification instead.
That’s what he’s done
Intensified a commodity that would crash at one stage
Is it just me or did the Tory idiots on this board, just take a statement which blamed this national government for economic mismanagement, and turn it into commentators on the standard bagging Key.
Paul did say ” Key and his clowns”, which means this national government.
Poor Tory scum, who have to twist things to feel better.
Key has ruined our economy , dragging us into ever deepening debt and he is surrendering our sovereignty.
Pretty easy to bag such a character.
“Surrendering”.
Nah, he’s just let it go for some beads and blankets.
When we surrendered our sovereignty to the ILO, that was a good thing, because it’s a fair exchange.
Lies on lies from the SDHB & Compass:
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/371838/44-cancel-meals-wheels#sthash.x7LWBGDV.dpuf
Yesterday, it was 11 cancellations (but the link to that article on the ODT is 502 broken, this update has the gist):
– See more at: http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/371783/more-meals-wheels-cancellations#sthash.VpIaj9wF.dpuf
Even 11 cancellations would be a 4.4% in a fortnight, which if it continued at the same rate would leave no one by the end of the year. 44 of 250 is 17.6%, and if continued would go to zero by April!
For me
the head is sacred
ritual welcomes are sacred
I don’t care who produced the picture
It is over the line
don’t you get that?
Please enlighten us
What on earth are you talking about?
http://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-02022016/#comment-1127820
Thank you. Now I understand.
I hadn’t looked at the daily review yesterday, so this comment here didn’t make any sense to me.
In these days of mass communication and the worlds cultures exposed and crashing into each other all over the place, it seems it is very difficult to avoid sensitivities in many many places, simply because people do not know of said sensitivities….
how to deal with?
That is a very generous interpretation vto
I really don’t think it is that hard to either get it right or err on the side of caution.
i’m calmish at the moment but later on i’m going to allow my anger to come forth. I’m very disappointed that this shit is happening here – but maybe I’m just not taking the hint eh.
Yeah I see that. Perhaps in this world of crashing cultures people should err on the side of caution.
After all, that is what we all do when we go into people’s homes – err on the side of caution. We don’t go in and barge around with no manners – that would just be plain rude.
It might take some more time for the internet culture to grasp these things though – it is still rough, young, and raw imo.
In the days of mass communication and 40 years of the Māori renaissance into the view of Pākehā, how is it that the left wing is still so ignorant of such matters?
I don’t mean ignorant as pejorative, just a statement of fact about our (Pākehā) lack of knowledge. When I saw the picture I had a pretty negative gut reaction to it (there was something very wrong with it), considered saying something but didn’t know what to say and then scrolled on past. As soon as marty posted that it was offensive, I went ‘duh!’, of course. Even with the little bit of exposure to te Ao Māori that I’ve had, I know that there are issues with both messing with heads, and messing with ritual.
If we (all of us) want left wing spaces to be anything other than Pākehā dominant, this is not the kind of thing we can get wrong. Also, we (Pākehā) do get this stuff wrong a lot, so it’s not about having a go at whoever put it up, but I think there is an opportunity here to learn and to change.
I think the image should be removed, in the same way if a misogynistic image had been put up it should be removed too.
Maybe the image should have been removed. But removing it now means that any discussion around it becomes meaningless.
I saw it last night (prior to any comments about it) and felt very uncomfortable with it, but couldn’t quite articulate why. Because I couldn’t pin down exactly what was wrong with it, I didn’t comment, and just moved on. I still can’t. Maybe I’ll get there and the penny will drop.
Heads are of no particular significance to me, so the source of my discomfort isn’t the same as for Marty being offended. Regardless, the image comes across as (somehow) just plain fucking wrong and racist.
How’d I feel if it was pigs heads or some such? How’d I feel if it was pigs bodies? The former would be as similarly (though maybe more obviously) fucked up as the one posted, and the latter would be just another photo mash up.
Maybe I’ll come back to this conversation later today and see if the penny drops.
the ignorance around Māoridom on here is astounding and disgusting. Fucking embarrassing – seriously I don’t know why I bother – oh that’s right I’m trying to help alleviate ignorance – waste of time
that is not directed solely at you bill as I’m sure you will realise but ffs
I agree with that and fully acknowledge my understanding of Māoridom is woeful. But having said that, is knowledge of Māoridom really necessary in this instance marty?
If it is, then ignorance of a specific cultural perspective potentially serves to get perpetrators of offence off the hook.
I mean, if a similar photo had been produced with the heads photo-shopped onto the bodies of some First Nations people, I’d have had the same basic reaction.
For me, as best as I articulate at the moment, there is something unacceptable about presenting an image that over-lays colonised peoples/cultures with expressions or signifiers of colonial dominance.
That perspective is neither ‘right’ nor ‘wrong’, ‘adequate’ or ‘inadequate’…just illustrative of the fact that there can be a number of roads leading to the same basic conclusion.
Except the issues around heads and ritual, if not learned about, just come up again in another context some other time and so it goes on, because we ignored the specifics. So yes, it’s good to recognise the general racism issues and on our own terms, but it’s also vital that we learn what is important to Māori.
Criticising/understanding the image from a Tau Iwi perspective is useful, but not if it’s done at the expense of understanding the Māori one.
It’s not just about this one image, it’s about the fact that this space is still so bad at this, and the only way to remedy that is to learn some tikanga Māori. That’s honouring the Treaty too.
Which brings me to the fact that as much as I’d love to hear and would welcome marty’s thoughts at this point (and other Māori Standardistas), it’s not up to him (or other Māori) to educate Tau Iwi here about what the specific issues are. Thankfully we have the internet now and there’s no reason why some non-Māori here can’t go and educate ourselves. I don’t think the internet is the best way to learn what’s important by any means, but at least we do have resources in the public domain from Māori, and Tau Iwi who have done the mahi of listening to Māori directly on Māori terms. It’s the least we can do to get up to speed with those. Then perhaps we might find that Māori are willing to be here and engage more.
Is it really necessary (web wise) to have comprehensive knowledge of particular cultures in order to not offend people?
If it is, then when and where do we find the time to lift our heads from all that cultural immersion of the 1001 cultures we’ve indulged in?
And how does one ‘correctly’ navigate instances where aspects of particular cultures are themselves considered offensive to, contradict or clash with, one’s own?
In the final analysis I’d rather a world with no cultural identities or tradition given the nonsense and conflict it all has and does give rise to, but hey…
…in the meantime, and in recognition that I can’t learn, store or reconcile all the cultural and traditional knowledges out there, I’ll just have to settle for using whatever (culturally informed 😉 ) common sense and sensibility or empathy I have in order to avoid inadvertently and somewhat pointlessly offering up offence.
you live here Bill maybe start with the cultural aspects of this country – Waitangi Day is here – go to a marae for the ‘celebration’ – that might be a good first step
Bill, look at it this way: giving offence feels so much better when it’s done deliberately. Clumsy blunders let you* down.
*or me, or anyone, when we make them.
really sorry you’ve had to deal with this marty. Thanks for taking us to task despite it all. I’ll support you in any way I can if you want more to happen here (I’ve got my own RL mahi going on over the next few days so will be in and out). I’m doing some thinking about what I can do otherwise as well. Hope you can take good care of yourself too.
Thanks weka
Marty, please forgive my ignorance: how far does the sacred nature of the head extend? For example, does it apply to (say) drawn caricature? Or doodling on a newspaper photograph? Pakeha have been juxtaposing heads and bodies to comic effect for centuries. That’s not meant to be some sort of excuse it’s just true.
My atheist side wants to reject the whole notion of “sacred” as I would any other mumbo pocus, and yet these are the terms I employ to ridicule the religions and spirituality of my own culture, and I feel quite uncomfortable with them in this context, as I would for example, in going to a Buddhist or Hindu country and mocking their beliefs.
Thanks for bringing this up.
I think this example that pissed me off was too far. Whether sacred or special the head is used as a target for insult and ridicule across the board here and elsewhere – just got to be careful about who to and how specific.
I’m okay with that approach from the atheist side too – I prefer it to the ‘my god is better’ approach of other belief systems.
“Maybe the image should have been removed. But removing it now means that any discussion around it becomes meaningless.”
I think the standard group should take it’s direction directly from Māori on that rather than deciding what is meaningful or not (I’m sidestepping the whole anarchic, who makes decisions etc thing). Which means not just listening but making an effort to find out (thanks for your comment btw).
I’m tangata whenua and I don’t care.
There you go, problem solved, the image can stay.
Thanks for putting your hand up as one of the most ignorant people in the room (quite an achievement that) as well as one of the biggest shit stirrers. Well done BM.
@Weka. Stop being so precious. I too am tangata whenua, and the image didn’t bother me in the slightest.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.
Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.
I think that’s looking at it arse about face: in any given situation (especially one which might further your interests), would you rather give offence deliberately or from ignorance?
Had I seen marty’s comment last night (not to mention the others) it would have reinforced my gut reaction and I’ve have replaced the image. (Without my gut reaction, the same action would likely have been taken)
The point I was making here is that time has elapsed and that a conversation has ensued – one that might be productive, but also one that would seem to rely on the source of the discussion being available.
It’s been done. It’s shit. Hitting a delete button now doesn’t undo what’s been done..doesn’t catch shit from sailing towards the fan.
Informed dialogue on the other hand….
-sigh- seeing pros and cons on all sides now.
That makes sense and if it were say a gender issue I might agree (depending on the image). I guess my point is that it’s not up to us to decide whether that takes predecent because we don’t have the cultural knowledge on which it make the decision.
The ensuing conversation can still happen, it just requires those of us who have seen the image to explain what the issues are. That’s probably a good thing, because it makes it about the cultural safety issue rather than that particular photo.
+1 Weka
I can see issues with the image and I have removed it. I will let the poster know, they should have right of reply.
Apologies to marty mars and anyone else who was offended.
thanks r0b
Cheers marty
Hi marty
I chose the picture. I can recall a while ago using the Key picture with the tattoed Merril Lynch face and you raised concern and I was happy to take it down and have not used it since.
I thought about this when I chose this picture but I did not think it would cause offence because Maori have made a very principled decision concerning the TPPA and the picture was to poke fun at the Government and its lack of Maori support.
Clearly I will need to recalibrate my thinking on the issue.
My apologies for my lack of sensitivity and causing distress.
Thanks micky
The current media frenzy over Key/Harawiras /Waitangi is great publicity and the result will be reported as positive for Key.
Greatest show in Aotearoa written and produced by Crosby Textor.
That’s why the PM should visit other maraes around the country, might stop all the histrionics the media love
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1602/S00024/morale-at-beleaguered-eqc-hits-rock-bottom.htm
and so it continues….
What complete and utter rant and BS by Mike Hosking re Waitangi.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11583922
http://www.vox.com/polyarchy/2016/2/2/10895670/mitch-mcconnell-2016
The US Senate will not be voting on the TPP in 2016. So we won’t see any vote on it until after the presidential election most likely.
And the 4 possible Presidents – Hillary, Bernie, Ted Cruz, and Trump – all say they oppose the TPP. So is the TPP dead? Well, maybe at least for another year…
I’m not as up with how the American government works but I’m pretty sure the American president can’t just say “I don’t like it” and that’s it
PR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#Administrative_powers
If you follow the links: “Historically, the Congress overrides the Presidential veto less than 10% of the time”. Although that was 33% of GW Bush’s 12 vetos and 0% so far of Obama’s 9. FDR had 635 vetos with only 9 over-ridden!
I’m not bothered, the military-industrial crypto-fascist new world order will ensure this goes through
Or so I’ve heard…
The Congress cannot negotiate or pursue trade agreements itself, it can only vote on them. Only the President can actually do the negotiation, bring it to the Congress, and then sign it.
Actually, the US president can veto legislation.
Never said they couldn’t.
I didn’t reply to you but PR.
International order by the Human Rights Council and professor of international law at the Geneva School of Diplomacy – say DON’T SIGN TPPA!
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=17005&LangID=E#sthash.uakqAUnE.gbpl&st_refDomain=web.facebook.com&st_refQuery=/
+100 savenz…that says it all really !…about why New Zealanders and our country should NOT be party to the TPPA!
And in latest competition removal news fletchers look to acquire higgins. Higgins were bought into rangiriri bypass on sh1 as fletchers screwed the first earthmoving crowd so hard they went broke.
So send one out of business then buy one of the remaining players, tough decision for fletchers that one.
Clearly all the people spending so much time commenting on this site don’t live in Wellington.
At the moment it a warm (well 26C) day with an absolutely cloudless blue sky and the barest hint of a breeze. I have just come inside to collect my togs to go to the beach.
It is far to nice to waste any more time indoors.
It doesn’t rhyme very well but locals here are singing “wonderful, wonderful Wellington, salty old dame of the sea”.
Eat your heart out jafas. I believe you are cloudy and it is very windy.
Fine days are not such a novelty in Auckalofa. 🙂
Heh yeah with the choking humidity and sudden subtropical down pours heh
hey, the region was a subtropical rainforest.
Nope
Seems Alwyn and his now banned stablemate fisiani are Wellington people and that makes a lot of sense because their glossy views on the state of the nation are consistent with a Wellington centric outlook on life. Basically, it’s the same old right wing mantra: I’m alright, so why can’t you be too?
Lol.
Well, speaking as a life-long resident of Welling-on-Sea, New Zealand’s answer to the French Riviera (in fact, some would go as far as saying The Venice of the South), can I just say that Wellington is second only to Dunedin in its Left-leaning proclivities (alwyn and fisi represent a dysfunctional, Tory-leaning minority of grizzled malcontents).
The good burghers of my unusually fetching city (very much Cinderella to Jaffaville’s Ugly Big Sister*) are significantly to the Left of that humid, half-crazed cultural wasteland in the North.
* I suspect I’ll pay dearly for the previous 3 words.
In defence of alwyn I think this was a friendly tongue-in- cheek exchange on both sides Muttonbird.
You are generous, Anne, and it’s a credit to you. I’ve not time for the incessant barbed attacks on social responsibility from the likes of Alwyn and fisiani.
An attempt at the joke from these types leaves me cold.
some of us are stuck indoors waiting for machines to go “ping!”
Dunners today was about right – maybe a touch too warm for me, but I have a certain amount of insulation pre-installed.
Eat your heart out jafas. I believe you are cloudy and it is very windy.
You have been misinformed. Beautiful sunny day (27 degrees) with a cooling easterly breeze. A few small and harmless cumulous clouds wafting by to give brief respite from the wall to wall sunshine.
I believe you. And I believe DTB.
On a day as gorgeous as this I will believe almost anything.
I looked at one of the weather sites which said that about Auckland.
It is now still calm and clear and the temperature is back down to 26C. According to the Met Office it got to 28C, although the thermometer in my car said 30C (in the shade).
“Wonderful, wonderful etc, etc.”
Colonial V might have the last laugh. Choking humidity and semi-tropical downpours are in the mix for Auckland on Fri. and Sat.
I see what you mean.
http://www.metservice.com/towns-cities/auckland/auckland-central
Ours looks a bit better but nothing like today. A bit of drizzle around.
http://www.metservice.com/towns-cities/wellington/wellington-city
I feel sorry for poor old muttonbird at 11.2.1. The weather must be absolutely horrible where he is if he is that grumpy.
A little sticky but the renowned Castlecliff sea breeze keeps things comfortable.
http://www.metservice.com/towns-cities/whanganui
…Why is Europe not looking at the root causes of the refugee crisis?
…Are the ordinary people being listened to ?
…or are political elites foisting their views against the will of the people of sovereign democratic nations?
….Issues of listening to the grassroots opinions of indigenous people in sovereign nations on mass refugee influx /immigration ….and its effects on sovereignty and cultural identity of nations
‘Waves of refugees’
https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/330558-mass-migration-crisis-eu/
“When it comes to mass migration and the current refugee crisis hitting the EU, it is getting harder and harder to remain an idealist. The reality is that Europe not only must manage its external borders, but also internal ones. There are of course economic issues to deal with, but what about the importance of culture?
CrossTalking with Marcus Papadopoulos, Matthew Goodwin and Alan Posener.”
Mike “I Agree With Matthew” Williams is now
spouting nonsense about AMERICAN politics
The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 3 March 2016
Jim Mora, Simon Pound, Mike Williams, Julie Moffett
The Pre-Panel segment today is, once again, vacuous and determinedly trivial. As usual, they say nothing interesting….
JULIE MOFFETT: Comedian Jerry Seinfeld is selling three of his luxury Porsches. That’s out of his collection of 47.
JIM MORA: He’s got 47 has he?
JULIE MOFFETT: [curtly, after a significant pause] Yes.
MORA: They’d stop being drivable wouldn’t they, just languishing in the garage?
JULIE MOFFETT: They’re not languishing, he’s got a full-time mechanic working on them.
MORA: He’s got a mechanic?
….et cetera, ad nauseam….
An hour later, they’re discussing American politics with about the same level of insight you’d expect on Larry “Lackwit” Williams’ Drivetime program over on NewstalkZB….
MIKE “I AGREE WITH MATTHEW” WILLIAMS: Ted Cruz is an extremist, and so is Bernie Sanders.
On the plus side, Simon Pound was both lucid and intelligent, but the sad fact is that this program has ten Mike Williams equivalents for every Simon Pound.
Mora’s panel sinks into the abyss.
One out of two right isn’t too bad is it? I mean he was the Labour Party President and they aren’t really renowned for intellect are they?
He got it wrong about Cruz but right about Sanders is what you are trying to say I assume.
free education and healthcare is “extremist” eh?
are you trying to turn NZ into Mordor? How’s Sauron been lately?
TPP post coming up?
In the meantime, this is a must read before tomorrow.
For Independence and Freedom: March against the TPPA!
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/02/03/for-independence-and-freedom-march-against-the-tppa/
The Herald continues to fawn at The Dear Leader.
TheIr online heading.
John Key will brave Waitangi.
Wonder whether they thought he was such a hero when he flew off to the US to watch his son play baseball before attending the funerals of NZ soldiers.
What a parody of the media the Herald has become.
It should be in North Korea.
The right wing media are loving this. The plaintive cries from Hosking, Ralston, and Williams that the office of the prime minister should be respected on this issue, the issue of the prime minister’s right to attend Waitangi falls on deaf ears as far as I’m concerned because the it has been the prime minister himself who has disrespected the office in recent times…
His kid’s baseball over Kiwi soldiers
Presides over increasing public sector corruption
Calls a red top ‘gay’ in perforative terms
Ignores the OIA and is comfortable with it
Harasses waitresses in their place of work
Sets the SIS on the leader of the opposition
Texts his bud, hate speech peddler, Cameron Slater
Jokes with the Chilean government about a killer his corrections dept just released
Entertains shock jocks…
…and participates in jokes about prison rape
Chops and changes ministers to minimise accountability
I could go on.
I am reminded of the vitriolic response by the media (including the Herald) when Helen Clark forsook going to Waitangi and attended another ceremony in the South Island- I think. And the reason why she didn’t attend was because she had previously been denied speaking rights. Helen (rightly) took that as an insult to her as a female political leader and also women across the board.
The one that gets me is Armstrong’s ‘Resign Cunliffe’ rant. Even Armstrong was ashamed of it – not in time to save the election of course.
Helen handled it about right – though she didn’t have a good answer to it on the day she got disrespected.
Key should be there as PM – but speaking rights are not a given – if I were Maori I wouldn’t want him grandstanding from Waitangi. He should go to listen – God knows he never does anywhere else.
The NZ Herald have been pro-Tory and pro-ruling class for…decades. Are we really still complaining about them.
Pointing out the bias.
No Daily Review so will leave here
Methinks the NAct government is in a bit of a tizz!
Just had call from David Farrar’s Curia outfit. Started out with the usual. Who are you voting for… why etc.etc. Went on to ask “which is the best party for:
1. the economy
2. housing
3. education
4. immigration
5. employment issues
and there were others.
Next:
Who is the best political leader – rate them from 1 to 5 with 5 being the top score.
Who is the strongest leader – ditto
Further questions on what you look for in a leader.
At the end of all that:
Who will win the next election.
And last but not least:
Which flag are you going to vote for.
Decided to answer honestly.
Heh heh I just had a vision of farrar crawling up a long carpet on his belly to give his master the answers you gave