Open Mike 04/07/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 4th, 2018 - 125 comments
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125 comments on “Open Mike 04/07/2018 ”

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  1. AsleepWhileWalking 1
    4 July 2018 at 6:35 am

    The cure got high prices IS high prices.

    Kiwibuild assists wealthy couples, foreign buyers, interfering with natural market response which collapses from the top down.

    WHY?

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.1
      4 July 2018 at 8:03 am

      NZ Resident is a foreigner imho

    • David Mac 1.2
      4 July 2018 at 9:04 am

      I think it’s reasonable to assume that in many cases the family moving into the 800k Kiwibuild homes will have sold their $450k home to do so or freed up a rental.

      The price isn’t as important as the supply.

      The Auckland market has pulled back 8.2% in 12 months, I think that’s more than noise.

  2. Robert Guyton 2
    4 July 2018 at 8:24 am

    “I know that as Leader of the Opposition I’m supposed to complain about everything.

    But that’s not my style.”

    Simon Bridges

    https://www.national.org.nz/speech_to_fieldays_on_climate_change

    • Puckish Rogue 2.1
      4 July 2018 at 8:50 am

      “I know that as Leader of the Opposition I’m supposed to complain about everything.

      But that’s not my style.”

      No no no no no! A thousands times no! Ten thousand thundering typhoons and billions of bilious blue blistering barnacles this makes me angry!!!!!

      Part of the reason Labour went through so many leaders and were in the doldrums for so long was (apart from being generally poo) because they opposed absolutely everything, everything National did was wrong, if National had said the grass was green Labour would said no its blue

      We (ok me) don’t want National to oppose everything because not everything Labour, NZFirst or the Greens will say is wrong (sure its mostly wrong but even a stopped clock is right twice a day) I want National to oppose that which needs opposing and supporting that which should be supported because that’ll show National are actually taking note of whats going on and not just running on auto pilot

      Arrgggh, Hulk smash puny National strategists!!!!

      • james 2.1.1
        4 July 2018 at 9:49 am

        I didnt see National out there complain about the TPP when Labour signed it.

        And that was a biggie.

      • dukeofurl 2.1.2
        4 July 2018 at 9:52 am

        Thats nonsense.

        Its now National who is opposed to everything even when they previously said they supported/ would consider some issues.

        We saw that on very first day of parliament when the reduction in Mps on select committees which they and labour worked for in last parliament became ‘hell no we wont go lower’

        and more
        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/360621/domestic-violence-bill-unfair-to-small-businesses-national

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3
        4 July 2018 at 11:54 am

        Man, you’re delusional.

        National will oppose everything that Labour/NZGreens and NZFirst do because it’s against their ideology of giving all state assets to the already rich and empowering the already rich over the poor.

        BTW, Labour did support a few things National did. Sometimes that was because it was right but, more often than not, because Labour are still following the failed neo-liberal ideology.

        • Chris 2.1.3.1
          4 July 2018 at 11:41 pm

          This government’s adopted National’s Social Security (Legislation Rewrite) Bill pretty much in its totality – complete with sanctions – after it said it would oppose it. Good on you, Labour – you can always be trusted to do what you think is right.

    • Robert Guyton 2.2
      4 July 2018 at 10:05 am

      Our local National Party MP, Sarah Dowie is leading the charge! She complains about everything! . She even complains about things the Government might, at a stretch, vaguely consider perhaps doing a bit of. Her press releases and letters to the editor are a constant bore; other writers of letters to the editor have labled her a “show pony” and accurately accuse her of always wanting to be noticed. The National Party are following the Dowie prescription and squawking at every passing zephyr. It’s eroding their support but they can’t see it. The polls might declare a high following, but deeper down, they’re losing support by the yap yap day.

      • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1
        4 July 2018 at 10:18 am

        “The polls might declare a high following, but deeper down, they’re losing support by the yap yap day.”

        IMHO its less that and more this:

        https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a35af10f8d87a3bf953f4dee9141e4df

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1
          4 July 2018 at 10:36 am

          The double face palm reminds me of the triple hand shake. Hasn’t Jacinda done well; she’s not fallen off the stage and broken her arm, made an exhibition of herself camping it up on the catwalk, made soap or cannibal jokes nor yanked anyone’s hair; seems odd not to have a sociopath for a PM.

          • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1.1.1
            4 July 2018 at 10:50 am

            “seems odd not to have a sociopath for a PM”

            Well shanking a whole industry without any consultation at all could be considered slight sociopathic given how many lives are going to be, at the very least, disrupted

            Also not sure if its narcissistic or just plain vanity to take nice, pr positive pics with school kids before closing their schools down

            • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.1.1.1
              4 July 2018 at 12:01 pm

              Well shanking a whole industry without any consultation at all could be considered slight sociopathic given how many lives are going to be, at the very least, disrupted

              Considering the damage that that industry is doing – no it couldn’t.

              Knowing the damage and yet trying to keep it going is the sociopathic action and it’s what National does all the time across many industries.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                4 July 2018 at 12:12 pm

                So ending the industry without any ideas of what the people working, or supporting, it will do is all good with you?

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  4 July 2018 at 12:35 pm

                  Good job that they didn’t do that then isn’t it?

                  And if they had done that I’d expect them to make training and support available so that those people can change careers.

                  But, then, I think such support be permanently available as industries are often taken over by new knowledge.

                • Sacha …
                  4 July 2018 at 1:38 pm

                  With 30 years advance warning? Fine by me.

            • bwaghorn 2.2.1.1.1.2
              4 July 2018 at 12:14 pm

              What would of been the point consulting ? The oil companies would have rallied their supporters and lunched a massive fight back . We elect leaders to lead . The on it’s knees Nat pack don’t know the meaning of the word

              • Puckish Rogue …
                4 July 2018 at 12:21 pm

                Because when its such a contentious, and important, issue you’d think there’d absolutely be a positive conversation about it

                You know like how National stated before the election it was going to partially sell off some of the power company shares

                • bwaghorn …
                  4 July 2018 at 12:24 pm

                  You know as well as I do the sell off hated by most . And in no way was the reason the nats got elected.

                  Nd I have not heard a single person in my sphere complain about the oil shut down

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  4 July 2018 at 2:52 pm

                  You know like how National stated before the election it was going to partially sell off some of the power company shares

                  They didn’t start a conversation on that at all. They simply said that they would sell them off and did so despite the majority (~70%) being against them doing so.

                  If they were honestly having a conversation and listening to the owners then they would have stopped the sale.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    4 July 2018 at 2:55 pm

                    Pucky don’t care. His mind is made up.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    4 July 2018 at 3:16 pm

                    Bollix, they said what they were going to do if they won the election. Labour dropped this after they won the election, big difference.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      4 July 2018 at 3:24 pm

                      “they said what they were going to do”
                      But they hadn’t asked New Zealanders if that’s what they wanted to do. When they did and New Zealanders said, NO, they did it anyway! Pucky??

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      4 July 2018 at 3:30 pm

                      Or they could have not got enough votes to win the election which meant while people didn’t want them to do the partial sell down it wasn’t a big enough deal to change their votes

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      4 July 2018 at 3:36 pm

                      Not that. The “partial sell down” was a crock, as most NZers recognised. Do you, Pucky, hold that it was wise?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      5 July 2018 at 10:47 am

                      And the majority of people said, after National won the election, that they didn’t want National to sell state assets.

                      But National did anyway. This was, of course, fully undemocratic.

                      This is supposedly a democracy where the will of the people is actually taken into account.

                      Labour dropped this after they won the election, big difference.

                      It was in their election policies. So, no, they didn’t drop this after the election.

    • Gabby 2.3
      4 July 2018 at 10:58 am

      Who says Slick doesn’t have a sensa yuma?

  3. gsays 3
    4 July 2018 at 8:46 am

    It is a bit of a head scratcher, the nurses union recommending the latest proposal.
    I wouldn’t hold my breath over the nurses accepting the pay offer.
    For RNs (the majority of nurses), the offer has delayed the final proposed two steps, other than that, no change.
    The difference in the ‘new’ deal is that it includes senior nurses and health care assistants.

    • Psych nurse 3.1
      4 July 2018 at 10:28 am

      The latest offer considerably reduced what I would have received under the rejected offer. I have no inclination to now accept less. All the NZNO have done by recommending acceptance is fuel anger, its not for a paid union official to try and sway the membership. The feeling among Nurses is one of having been shafted by both the employer and Union.

      • dukeofurl 3.1.1
        4 July 2018 at 11:04 am

        Have you put up your hand to join the negotiating team at Nurses Union or work on the background in your specialty for the lead negotiators ? How about being a local rep ?

        didnt think so

      • gsays 3.1.2
        4 July 2018 at 8:08 pm

        My reaction upon hearing the latest offer and the unions recommendation to take it, was not flash.

        I do not understand the union’s stance.

        Perhaps the strike is the way, sends an expensive message to DHB and is a great way to unify and empower a workforce.

  4. Adrian Thornton 4
    4 July 2018 at 9:19 am

    Affordable houses with a $180,000 cap or in other words a couple earning $3500.00 p/w that they can sell within 3 years…what a fucking joke.

    So if you take the average wage a a production worker ($38000) + the average wage of a full time cleaner ((35,000) total $73000 figure in rent and two children…they will never be able to afford an “affordable home”
    https://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=Production_Worker/Hourly_Rate
    https://www.payscale.com/research/NZ/Job=Cleaner/Hourly_Rate

    So well within one generation most these “affordable houses” will have just become part of our obscene national obsession of using our homes as commodities, while working class families will never have that security.

    It is a disgrace.

    • james 4.1
      4 July 2018 at 9:51 am

      Thats Labour and this coalition for you.

      • adam 4.1.1
        4 July 2018 at 10:03 am

        Just like national, but not as cruel about it.

        • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1
          4 July 2018 at 10:21 am

          I think its mores just like National, but not as upfront about it.

          • adam 4.1.1.1.1
            4 July 2018 at 10:59 am

            It is nice to not have the spitefulness, hard ideology, and lies though.

            • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1.1.1
              4 July 2018 at 11:58 am

              Let me know when we have a government like that

              • adam …
                4 July 2018 at 12:04 pm

                Not sure what planet you on, but the spiteful levels have dropped measurably. I know you love your spite, but the rest of us like the break from it.

                As for hard ideology, you get your lot destroyed peoples live to score cheap political points. I guess you never had to deal with anyone who was kicked out of their home over the P lie.

                It will take a long time to get even close to Key levels of lying, a long, long, long time.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  4 July 2018 at 12:12 pm

                  Red this and tell me it isn’t spite or ideology thats causing it: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?
                  c_id=1&objectid=11946622

                  As for lying well I’d point out the TPP, sorry the CPAPTPP or whatever its called but I can’t because there were so many conflicting press releases on what Labour was, or wasn’t going to do

                  I’d also point out what the current government parties said they’d do pre-election vs post-election but apparently its ok now because you have to wait for the negotiations to see whats really going to happen

                  • McFlock …
                    4 July 2018 at 1:19 pm

                    spite causes broken links?

                  • adam …
                    4 July 2018 at 1:58 pm

                    One point, and then you missed Willy Jackson’s take on it. The whole Maori caucus take on the issue for instance – or did you do that on purpose?

                    As for you not understanding MMP, that really is your problem. That said, some of us remember the broken promises of the 4th national government.

                • james …
                  4 July 2018 at 2:55 pm

                  “I guess you never had to deal with anyone who was kicked out of their home over the P lie.”

                  or children being sexually attacked at a youth camp

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    4 July 2018 at 2:56 pm

                    Idjit.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      4 July 2018 at 3:50 pm

                      James has a peculiar fascination with this event. He nearly wet himself with excitement over the potential for partisan political point-scoring at the time (implying that the Labour Party enabled a sexual predator), and eventually copped a ban.

                      Whereas, if an evidence-based ranking of organisations that enable sexual exploitation in NZ was constructed, I reckon that the legal profession, the police, the military and the National Party would all out-rank Labour. “Look to your sins.”

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      4 July 2018 at 4:28 pm

                      Too complex, Drowsy, if you want to reach James, keep it simple! !

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      4 July 2018 at 5:05 pm

                      IF… He’s beyond my ‘reach’, but keep up the good fight!

                  • joe90 …
                    4 July 2018 at 3:17 pm

                    or children being sexually attacked at a youth camp

                    ….or appointing the chair of the law and order select committee, despite your knowledge of a police inquiry into the alleged behaviour of a prominent New Zealander….

                  • adam …
                    4 July 2018 at 4:51 pm

                    So people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, roast busters. May I remind you, that your mate Key said “boy’s will be boy’s” about that crew of rapists, and effectively stomped on an enquiry.

      • marty mars 4.1.2
        4 July 2018 at 10:20 am

        Yep the gnats pretended there was no issue and watched families living in cars – laughing and mocking the poor then and blaming them now imo. That is why the gnats are disliked so much and why there no name team will fade into oblivion.

    • dukeofurl 4.2
      4 July 2018 at 9:56 am

      the $180K is a cap not a floor.

      ‘So if you take the average wage a a production worker ($38000) + the average wage of a full time cleaner ((35,000) total $73000 figure in rent and two children…..”

      Of course they cant afford to rent and pay a mortgage… but thats not the intention but the mortgage replaces the rent.
      And please dont wave LVRs of 20% as they dont apply to new houses.

    • adam 4.3
      4 July 2018 at 10:01 am

      This is what happens when your committed to hard right economics, even as you espouse your left credentials cap in hand.

      • dukeofurl 4.3.1
        4 July 2018 at 11:10 am

        Since when is there some sort of ‘left credentials’ now. Decided by you of course. Spare us the purity of your ideology .
        this aint the ‘party line’ anymore

        • Adrian Thornton 4.3.1.1
          4 July 2018 at 11:24 am

          What do you mean..”this aint the ‘party line’ anymore”?

          • marty mars 4.3.1.1.1
            4 July 2018 at 11:33 am

            The purity of ideology is not a prerequisite for party membership or ammunition for attempted shaming of others for not being ‘pure enough’ ideologically. ??? Perhaps?

        • adam 4.3.1.2
          4 July 2018 at 11:29 am

          Oh look the argument of the weak of mind, “purist”. I don’t have a party or did you miss that memo. Anymore “red” baiting you wanna practice, or will you wait for your Tory mates to give you some more attack lines?

          Socialism does have this annoying thing, where economics matters. It puts the economic interests of working people and poor first. I know bit hard for corporate liberal’s to comprehend, but some really good books out their that can explain it.

  5. Enough is Enough 5
    4 July 2018 at 9:24 am

    En-ger-land

    Football is coming home

    • james 5.1
      4 July 2018 at 9:50 am

      Big call to make with a few games to go.

      • dukeofurl 5.1.1
        4 July 2018 at 10:00 am

        Stupid game that requires ‘penalty shootouts to decide a game’

        if it was up to me , I would remove goal keeper from field for the extra time period to make goals easier. The other way is to make goal bigger for these sort of games or other rule changes like sending off for professional fouls or penalty goals

        • Tricledrown 5.1.1.1
          4 July 2018 at 12:33 pm

          Get rid of the offside rule.

        • Bill 5.1.1.2
          4 July 2018 at 1:28 pm

          Extra time and sudden death. Then count up the number of corners awarded if need be, It’s how it used to be done.

          This crap of penalty shootouts…why bother with all the preceding however many minutes?

          Meanwhile, for the sake of ‘everyone’ in Wales and Scotland, and the insufferable bullshit they’d have to endure if England won this, any support I may be offering is for “anyone but”.

      • Robert Guyton 5.1.2
        4 July 2018 at 10:07 am

        3-0

      • Enough is Enough 5.1.3
        4 July 2018 at 10:27 am

        As a long suffering Fulham and England fan, you have to enjoy these moments and dare to dream for a day or two.

        They are the highest ranked team on the bottom half of the draw. That does not guarantee anything, but there has never been a better opportunity since 66 to advance to the final.

        • Bearded Git 5.1.3.1
          4 July 2018 at 10:57 am

          as a long suffering though currently happy Burnley fan i felt a bit sorry for Colombia and their fans….couldnt beleve Southgate bringing Dier on rather than Rashford….too negative and so it turned out…still I too am starting to dream a bit

  6. marty mars 6
    4 July 2018 at 11:28 am

    Any arsehole dumping oil should be named, shamed and put out of business and get 10000 hours community service imo

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/361041/illegal-oil-dumping-case-goes-to-court

    • Gabby 6.1
      4 July 2018 at 12:04 pm

      Goffle comes to the party with his indignation plate please. Quietly ignoring the poo on the beach.

      • marty mars 6.1.1
        4 July 2018 at 1:07 pm

        Yep his outrage is volcanic… when someone else has stuffed up. Maybe as mayor he should be FINANCIALLY penalised every time a beach closes due to excessive poos – all elected officials too and their managers.

  7. Puckish Rogue 7
    4 July 2018 at 12:16 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105221856/kiwibuild-registration-more-people-than-homes-within-hours

    “The Government is only expecting to build 1000 of its 100,000 affordable homes before July 2019 as the build programme ramps up.”

    Sure they will…

    • Enough is Enough 7.1
      4 July 2018 at 1:43 pm

      I am still to see any evidence that 1 of those houses is a house that would have not have been built without kiwibuild.

      • Jenny 7.1.1
        5 July 2018 at 3:42 am

        You could quite possibly be right about that EiE

        Basically KIwibuild is little more than a government subsidy for developers.

        And yes I know that some middle class families who rent because they are priced out of the house buying market will benefit by being able to “get on the property ladder”. That is not where the most serious need is. The most serious need is further down the income scale, where families don’t have any roof at all.

        If the government wanted to address homelessness, (which if we were being honest, is not the purpose of Kiwibuild).

        Instead of being put on the housing market, possibly better use might be made of these properties if they were nationalised and made state rentals.

        This would make accommodation available at the bottom of the market, where it is most needed, instead of in the middle of the market, where people at least still have some other choices.

  8. greywarshark 8
    4 July 2018 at 12:30 pm

    Great that kayaker Scott Donaldson makes it across Tasman on his second try.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105168174/Trans-Tasman-kayaker-Scott-Donaldson-nears-Taranaki-beach

    https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/nation-world/article214180639.html
    (Good coverage and image from Idaho Statesman.)
    Donaldson was forced to abandon a previous attempt in 2014 when he was within sight of the New Zealand coastline after he was hit by a storm.

    Just to remember another bold adventurer, Andrew McAuley R.I.P.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_McAuley
    Sea kayaking
    In 2003, he made the first non-stop kayak crossing of the Bass Strait.[3]
    In 2004, he kayaked across the Gulf of Carpentaria.
    In 2006, he led an expedition in the Australian Antarctic Territory where they paddled over 800 km within the Antarctic Circle.[4]…

    The documentary of McAuley’s journey, Solo, incorporated video footage recovered from one surviving memory stick in his camera, as well as interviews with people on his team during the expedition. It begins with the distress call he made on the evening of 9 February: “Do you copy? This is kayak one. Do you copy, over? I’ve got an emergency situation. I’m in a kayak about 30 kilometres from Milford Sound. I need a rescue. My kayak’s sinking. Fell off into the sea and I’m going down.”[9]
    McAuley’s wife Vicki McAuley wrote a book, Solo, about him and his final voyage.[12]

    In the same summer, a specially-constructed two-person kayak crossed the Tasman Sea at a more northerly route. The competitive spirit may have played a part in McAuley’s determination to make the journey when he did.[9] A song has recently been written about his final journey by Australian composers Paul Jarman and Phil Voysey, entitled “Towards Infinity”.

  9. marty mars 9
    4 July 2018 at 1:04 pm

    Oh – might get some action now – be good if all churches and Christians in the US did this.

    ‘Baby Jesus ‘detained’ in US immigration protest’ – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44704580

  10. Robert Guyton 10
    4 July 2018 at 3:00 pm

    “New Zealand unquestionably needs maritime surveillance aircraft – we use them for maritime search & rescue, fisheries patrols, and damage assessment after tropical cyclones. But we don’t need high-tech sub-hunters, for the simple reason that we are not threatened by submarines. Seriously, where are these mythical submarines they are expected to find? And if this fantasised threat is expected to exist not now, but a decade or two in the future, then that suggests that we get the hugely expensive sub-hunting electronics (which makes up a huge chunk of the inflated cost of these aircraft) in that decade or two, not now.

    Basicly, high-end military equipment in the absence of any real threat is a vanity purchase. All it does is allow generals to feel like they’re keeping up with the Aussies, while enabling them to get involved in more American wars. There are far better things we could be spending that money on, like schools, hospitals, and state houses, which will make far of a difference to the safety of New Zealanders than expensive, pointless sub-hunting electronics ever will. We should ditch this contract and buy something cheaper which actually serves our needs.”
    IS

    • Puckish Rogue 10.1
      4 July 2018 at 3:47 pm

      Nothing wrong with having inter-operability with our allies and having high-end equipment allows for more options so I’m not against this purchase

    • Exkiwiforces 10.2
      4 July 2018 at 4:43 pm

      Just a couple of questions Robert?

      Where does your computer, phone or internet device come from?
      How much does NZ exports go by ship?
      How much does NZ imports come by ship?
      How much wealth comes from NZ exports which pays for education, health, welfare etc?
      What’s the best way to achieve the in-direct military approach attack when combined with direct attack on critical infrastructure, cyber and bio warfare (agriculture and horticulture).
      How did the French spooks/ SF personal who bombed the Rainbow Warrior escaped by using a yacht and what else?
      What’s the best way to attack NZ and maintain surprise and pauseable deinalability, the direct approach or the indirect approach?
      What’s best way to sink a ship and stuff up NZ economy at the same time
      Should we be more worried about the indirect military attack or the direct attack on NZ and which achieves the biggest amount of bang, but doing it with the economy of force?
      Does globalisation leave NZ vulnerable to an indirect attack either in NZ or else where within the Asia- Pacific?
      Resource thief in a Climate Change environment how you stop that when countries are give the current international rules base the two finger salute?

      I’ll be back later after some gardening with some interesting trade facts IRT to shipping in the Asia Pacific and current tends.

      • Robert Guyton 10.2.1
        4 July 2018 at 4:49 pm

        A “couple” of questions, Ex?
        More like a cluster 🙂
        Okay: Noel Leemings, lots, lots, plenty (but there are other ways), sneaky means, cunningly, sneakily, wiv a bomb?, no, yes, tricky!
        “K”?
        So, we’re screwed, right? Gotta play the game and muscle up? Is that what you think, KiwiF?

      • adam 10.2.2
        4 July 2018 at 4:57 pm

        Or maybe, just maybe – we could put our collective dicks away for a while, and sort out real problems – rather than tacitly support this continuous war that has been happening globally for the last thirty odd year.

        • Exkiwiforces 10.2.2.1
          4 July 2018 at 5:58 pm

          Point I’m trying to make is since the start of this Neo Liberalism / Goblalisation B/S has left NZ quite vulnerable as NZ is an export base economy. So if NZ doesn’t want to or can’t maintain it Sea Lanes Of Communication (SLOC) then NZ’s economy turns to shit rather fast because if you can’t import, then it is highly unlikely that you will be able to export which in turns leads to some sort of economic downturn or collapse etc.

          It’s not about the size of one’s dick or the size one’s tits etc, but about having an independent Defence, Trade, Foreign Affairs and Aid Policies within the recognised International Base Rules Principles. If NZ can’t and isn’t prepared to defend, protect these Principles then what does NZ stand for?

          And if you think unarmed Neutrality is going to protect you then good luck with that because it aren’t and if it’s a one state nation that comes knocking then your basic human rights are toast, which I know is a fact from my time in East Timor in 99-00 Peacekeeping at what the TNI did from 1975.

          • Robert Guyton 10.2.2.1.1
            4 July 2018 at 7:17 pm

            Keep up the Good Fight, Kiwiforcs ’cause it’s real.

          • adam 10.2.2.1.2
            5 July 2018 at 1:20 am

            Way to miss my point. In a big way – so you support the war machine, for the war machines sake? Ever done any reading on the collapse of the economy’s of the fascist states of Europe? Here a short summary, war economy has a limited life span, before it effectively bankrupts itself and leaves it’s population in abject poverty. Spain and Portugal have never really recovered. Italy is still a basket case, and Germany got lucky, it got the Marshall Plan.

            We need to work out how to do this smarter, otherwise we really are in the crapper.

            As for unarmed neutrality, who said that?

      • Tricledrown 10.2.3
        4 July 2018 at 5:42 pm

        Exkiwiforces the US generally makes more reliable military equipment with a long life the C130 and p3 orion are testament to that.
        If a war started how long would it Take to be operational from order date.
        5 yrs plus by then it will be over?

        • Exkiwiforces 10.2.3.1
          4 July 2018 at 6:22 pm

          Depending on the threat matrix at the time, if you have already have level of full operational capability (FOC) then the usual time fame would be around 2-3yrs tops as you won’t run down existing capability until the last 2-3 aircraft has been delivered.

          What happen to the ACF is that The No Mates Party started to rundown the A4’s before the F-16’s arrived and when that got caned, the cost for regeneration of A4’s become a sticking point for the incoming government when ET turned to a shit fight. The plan was to keep the Macchi’s flying to maintain a IOC level which will be then be able to force generate an ACF SQN with initial IOC within 18 mths and a full operational capability with 18- 24mths later. But to regenerate the ACF will now take between 5- 10yrs at minimum.

      • Tricledrown 10.2.4
        4 July 2018 at 6:05 pm

        Exkiwiforces the French escaped by paying $13million to the NZ govt.

        • Exkiwiforces 10.2.4.1
          4 July 2018 at 6:36 pm

          The one’s that got caught were the recon/ logistics team not the direct action team (DAT) who escaped by yacht which they later scuttle half way between Norfolk Is and New Caledonia where they were picked by a French boomer which the RN had asked NZ to find when it didn’t turn up on station. That’s when the penny dropped for some people high up and anyway from what I’ve heard over the yrs is that P3 guys found the boomer and ask permission to drop a few a depth charges but someone brink.

    • Heather Grimwood 10.3
      4 July 2018 at 9:39 pm

      To R G at 10 : Sad that this common-sense approach has taken so much energy
      over the decades yet still needs propounding . Many thanks for bringing it to notice again.

      • Exkiwiforces 10.3.1
        5 July 2018 at 12:31 am

        Heather, in the ideal world I wish there was not a cent spent on a Nations Security budget as I know what war is and it’s effects, but in the real world in which I live unfortunately we have to spend money on a Nations Security and for a nation like NZ it economic wealth is heavily dependent on open and free Sea Lanes Of Communications which can vulnerable to sub- surface and surface interdiction.

        The last two World Wars has seen Foreign Nations attempt to interdict our SLOC through the use of Submarines, Armed Merchant ships disguised as tramp ships conducting surface attacks and laying Sea mines, in modern times a Direction Attack in NZ using a yacht and submarine and then we have the RNZN Frigate Canterbury F421in East Timor during the INTERFET operation chasing one, possibly two type 209 subs from the TNI Navy inside ET’s 12 mile limit. God only knows what they will do when we finally kick the assholes out of West Papua, but going on their form guide from ET it will be an ugly operation of undertake and at least a Chap 6 Mission.

        And I will refer back to my comment https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04-07-2018/#comment-1499639. That the indirect attack is more likely to happen to NZ than a direct attack aka an over the beach, air assault attack which requires an awful lot of manpower, equipment and a bloody long logistical nightmare where as an indirect attack requires bugger all manpower and equipment which requires a bugger logistics foot print. It doesn’t mean it has to be in NZ waters which accounts for 10% of the worlds surface water for an indirect attack, it can be at the Singapore hub/ the South China Sea, the North Asia box, the MER Sea Lanes etc.

        Then we throw in Climate Change which is going to bring a whole host of other problems as well.

        The indirect attack is the most likely and dangerous to NZ interests than a direct attack as a lot of things need to fall into place before its a goer and even then there is no guarantee of success.

        I don’t why the left is so fixated on the direct attack/ approach when the indirect means is a lot easier to achieve, but then again they probably don’t study Military tactics, Military logistics , Military History and future Military tends within the Asia/ Pacific Region at University.

        • Heather Grimwood 10.3.1.1
          5 July 2018 at 10:08 am

          to Exkiwiforces at 10.3.1: Your seeming condescension not welcomed. I well remember the ramifications of WW2 AND the world politics involved.

  11. Pat 11
    4 July 2018 at 5:17 pm

    I have listened to many of the arguments and justifications for the announced details of Kiwibuild eligibility but sadly can only conclude how out of touch with reality Twyford (and Cabinet) appear with this decision…..it increasingly appears that the Minister is struggling with this key policy area for the coalition, but more importantly for the electorate.

    • millsy 11.1
      4 July 2018 at 9:46 pm

      The only way for Kiwibuild not to be a shambles is for a reboot of the old MOW and a return of the old Housing Corp mortgages. The government knows this but knows there will be a political fall out.

      • Pat 11.1.1
        4 July 2018 at 10:02 pm

        That may be an option but they have really sent the wrong message with the criteria for this particular policy….the question is why?..are they so out of touch with real life that they are incapable of seeing how it will be viewed by the average punter or is there some twisted logic behind it?..either way it dosnt provide for those it purports to be targeted at and yet provides for those that dont need it, as if we have a surfeit of housing FFS

  12. Jenny 12
    5 July 2018 at 3:59 am

    New Zealand plays the intrusive bullying colonial busybody in the Pacific.

    No such intrusive secret interception and spying against our other near Pacific neighbor, Australia has been revealed.

    Why?

    Is it because Australia is a white majority settler country like us?

    Or is it because Australia are bigger than us and we might get called out on it?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105220392/report-confirms-the-gcsb-was-spying-on-the-pacific–but-its-legal

  13. Eco Maori 13
    5 July 2018 at 7:15 am

    Good morning The AM Show I say tasers are a better tool for the police than guns the police have to deal with sycophants people whom have not control on there actions every day and these people put the police lives at risk at least with a taser the person has more chance of serviving the incident.
    Sunny Nelson its warm during the summer and very cold in the winter Queen Town has a big lake to ballance out the temperature fluctuations.
    Duncan it would be nice if ECO MAORI got paided for all the hits to my post the courts will be dealing with this in the near future. I’m not anti police just anti courpt police.
    I see trump got a lesson from the Norwegian Prime Minister he does not mince words just how Eco Maori likes it do what you say and say what you do a link is Below on trump.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/105248944/trump-pressed-aides-on-venezuela-invasion-us-official-says

    We do have a shortage of skilled workers you know who is to blame for this national I say make sure that the workers you import skills cannot be found in the local work force.
    You see I hear of stories about foreigns coming here and they are shearmilking in one season you see a lot of people have more respect for Foreigners than they have for Tangata whenua and that’s stuffed up eco Maori can see this behaviour a mile away.
    Ka kite ano

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