Open mike 05/06/2023

53 comments on “Open mike 05/06/2023 ”

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1. Ad 1

   5 June 2023 at 8:49 am

   Nicky Hager gets an ONZM. In your eye, SIS.
   • Phillip ure 1.1

     5 June 2023 at 9:33 am

     Ok…j.ardern deserves recognition for her initial work on the pandemic..

     But for the incrementalist work done on child poverty..(all long since eaten up by the massive increases in rents/cost of living)..?

     Really..?….really..?
     • Ad 1.1.1

       5 June 2023 at 9:39 am

       Look she was no Helen Clark, but she was effective in a crisis, and we had plenty.

       Also the actual stats show that child poverty since 2018 went down in 8 of 9 poverty measures.

       https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/child-poverty-statistics-show-no-annual-change-in-the-year-ended-june-2022#:~:text=Child%20poverty%20rates%20for%20the,population%20insights%20Sean%20Broughton%20said.

       And that's not bad for the worst economic crisis we've had since the Great Depression.
       • Stuart Munro 1.1.1.1

         5 June 2023 at 10:33 am

         Look she was no Helen Clark,

         Thank God.

         After the black decade of the nineties, when voters held their noses and voted for the Rogergnomic betrayers in the hopes of even modest improvement, Helen did nothing.
         • Phillip ure 1.1.1.1.1

           5 June 2023 at 11:17 am

           No..j.ardern wasn't as bad as h.clark..

           H.clark…with her 'deserving' (read working) and 'undeserving' poor…

           I was a sole parent in the clark years…

           Which automatically put me in the 'undeserving' poor category..

           And following the lead given by h.clark..the iteration of winz then waged war against us 'undeserving' poor…and treated us like shit…

           I viewed that state support as a contract I made with the state..for me to do the best I could to fulfill my end of that contract..

           And I was not perfect..but I tried..and the child I raised just got an a-grade for his master's thesis..and has been asked if he will publish it in book form…

           I feel I held up my end of that contract…

           And feel quite bleak towards h.clark…for the state sanctioned abuse she perpetrated/fostered against me..and the other 'undeserving poor'..

           That both h.clark and j.ardern have minor-deity status with labour supporters..kinda sticks in the craw..

           And now j.ardern being honoured for what by any measure she didn't do…just increases that craw-blockage…
           • higherstandard 1.1.1.1.1.1

             5 June 2023 at 11:29 am

             Congratulations to your son Phil you must be very proud.
             • Phillip ure …

               5 June 2023 at 12:00 pm

               Chrs..!…yep..!..

               It does gladden the heart..
           • bwaghorn 1.1.1.1.1.2

             5 June 2023 at 11:59 am

             Clark also transferred huge amounts of prime southern farm land into private ownership so she could chase sheep out of the hills and have them grow Wilding pines instead
           • Patricia Bremner 1.1.1.1.1.3

             5 June 2023 at 12:25 pm

             Congratulations to your son Phil.

             I wonder have you taken into account the many obstacles Jacinda faced, plus badmouthing and online abuse of the worst kind, which still continues.

             She was unstinting in her work ethic, and many of us are here because of the choices made during her time in office.

             As Ad pointed out, strides were made in the worst of times. Such complaints about her at this stage lack grace imo.

             Rewriting history with bile is rather unfair, as she was one person doing her best 'till she could not offer that any more, and then she said so.
             • Phillip ure …

               5 June 2023 at 1:32 pm

               @patricia..

               I have said here previously that what can never be taken away from j.ardern is the number of citizens lives she saved by her actions early on in the pandemic…this is backed up by international comparisons..

               And the amount of personal hate/abuse she had to endure cannot in any way be excused..it was/is irrational and vile…and I won't have a bar of it..and if I hear it verbalised I call out the speaker..

               I am surprised at you calling what I write on this as "bile'..

               What I am doing is comparing what j.ardern promised so fervently..to do..with what was delivered..or not delivered..in this case..

               You cite 'obstacles' j.ardern faced ..my reply to that is 'walking and chewing gum at the same time'…

               All gummints encounter obstacles..and I fail to see how that excuses those cornerstone policies/promises..not being fulfilled..

               And I would urge you to read/scroll that link that ad provided..it will confirm for you that everything/anything actually done was incremental at best..and that was 2022…and we all know it has only got much worse since then..eh..?

               You cite the work ethic of j.ardern..i have no idea either way on that..but don't see how that excuses inaction on what was promised…

               And I don't think I am 'rewriting history'..

               I am citing history..to make the point..

               (And I haven't even mentioned that other cornerstone ignored.. broken promises on the environment..!!)

               In this case I actually see you as attempting to 'rewrite history'..

               To gloss over such failures to such a degree that j.ardern is praised/cited for doing what she didn't do…is a big lie..

               So..yeah..nah..eh..?
               • Patricia Bremner …

                 5 June 2023 at 5:13 pm

                 In this matter we will agree to disagree.
                 You were supported (poorly) by the state while you parented your child. She gave up 5 years with her child, but is damned because she didn't achieve all.

                 Perspective and grace is needed not abuse.
                 • Phillip ure …

                   5 June 2023 at 6:58 pm

                   Show me where I have used 'abuse' against her…

                   And all politicians sacrifice family time..it comes with the job..

                   There is nothing personal in my critique of her time as pm..

                   It is purely political..
         • SPC 1.1.1.1.2

           5 June 2023 at 5:02 pm

           Those in state houses had their rents based on income not market rate. Those in low wage jobs got increases in the MW. Families on low incomes – WFF tax credits.
           • Phillip ure 1.1.1.1.2.1

             5 June 2023 at 7:17 pm

             Yes..some things were done..

             (And of course they were better than the meanspirited tories..with their standard 75 cent increases in the minimum wage just one example of how fucked they are..)

             But she didn't do nearly enough..

             And came nowhere near being the 'transformational' that she promised us..

             (Y'see..I believed her at the time..and then looked on in increasing dismay..as milestone after milestone passed by…and the promises weren't delivered on..

             And really..how can anyone defend that after six years of a labour government..we have one in four pacific island children..one quarter of them..living in poverty..

             That is hang head in shame stuff..
             • SPC …

               5 June 2023 at 7:44 pm

               The major flaw has been the lack of a two year rent freeze – 2022-2024.

               Taking in all those migrant workers required some mitigation action of that sort. Rents are too high. They will be higher than mortgages when the rates come back down.
               • Stuart Munro …

                 5 June 2023 at 9:54 pm

                 I recall getting a pledge card with a handful of crap on it I neither needed nor wanted, and Labour voices claiming they'd under promised and over delivered. As a consumer of their services I would have characterized their performance rather differently.
       • Phillip ure 1.1.1.2

         5 June 2023 at 10:55 am

         @ ad .
         From your link..)

         Just above your quote is a quote from 2022 stating nothing had changed in the previous 12 months..( this with ardern/labour majority govt..)

         And scrolling down in your link brings up the stats for maori/p.i…and they make grim reading..by the markers used one in four/one in five p.i. children live in poverty..

         I think I am past asking 'really?'…re j.arden being hailed in the citation for her gong..for her work on child poverty..

         I am more at 'what a sick effing joke..!'..
         • Tiger Mountain 1.1.1.2.1

           5 June 2023 at 12:07 pm

           Daniel Stride puts it well…

           https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2023/06/05/kings-birthday-grumpiness-dame-jacinda-ardern/

           Helen Clark bought in the “Jobs Jolt” where by various beneficiaries could have their entitlements cut if they moved to a number of provincial towns or areas. This was on the basis of supposedly less employment opportunities, even if bennies were moving for health or childcare reasons, or just to be closer to family. It was heartless monetarism of the “work will set you free” variety.

           Labour did do a number of incremental reforms but would never go near the Reserve Bank Act or State Sector Act etc.
   • Anne 1.2

     5 June 2023 at 9:42 am

     Congratulations Nicky Hager.

     “Good people who, via me and sometimes at considerable personal risk, have helped expose dishonesty, wrongdoing and abuse of power, and who by doing so have helped make a better society.”

     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kings-birthday-and-coronation-honours-2023-jacinda-ardern-among-new-dames/3QHWF7HXGNFQZJ2HFFJDNKOK2I/

     Nicky has done a superb job bringing the guilty to the public's attention. But the biggest story has still not been written. I refer to [Sir] Robert Muldoon and his little private band of merry men….
     • Ad 1.2.1

       5 June 2023 at 9:43 am

       Go right ahead and tell it.
       • Anne 1.2.1.1

         5 June 2023 at 9:53 am

         I can give you one word only for starters – Erebus.

         The rest will hopefully come out in due course.
         • Hunter Thompson II 1.2.1.1.1

           5 June 2023 at 10:26 am

           There must be former Air NZ staff still alive who saw exactly what went on in the aftermath of the disaster. Who got the job of destroying the personal notes made by Capt Collins at the pre-flight briefing about the path his aircraft would take?

           Collins’s pocket ringbinder was recovered with the notes intact and the writing clear, as the police recovery team confirmed. Those notes never made it to the Royal Commission.
           • Anne 1.2.1.1.1.1

             5 June 2023 at 10:57 am

             Yes Hunter Thompson. I have been researching the Erebus story on and off for years. That was a disgraceful episode the like of which has rarely been seen in this country.

             The oft repeated cliché that NZ is one of the "least corrupt countries in the world" might be generally true, but the period between the mid 1970s and the mid 1980s was a different story. Justice Mahon's observation:

             "It was an orchestrated litany of lies"

             is only part of the truth.
             • Ngungukai …

               5 June 2023 at 11:08 am

               Very strange event and it's aftermath was even stranger. Davis and Muldoon had a lot to answer for IMHO.
     • Tiger Mountain 1.2.2

       5 June 2023 at 10:14 am

       Yes a true national treasure Mr Hager. He shames the official spies with his opaque interview techniques and obtaining information seemingly without leaving a trace.

       “many more projects yet”…excellent news Nicky, though some of those pinged in “The Hollow Men”, “Dirty politics”, NZ Defence and more may be checking their document shredders are still working.
       • Anne 1.2.2.1

         5 June 2023 at 10:45 am

         5 June 2023 at 10:43 am

         "…may be checking their document shredders are still working."

         Back in the day, those shredders were likely being well used.

         I will add a little more to my story. Since Nicky had the guts to do it, so should I.

         In my reply to Ad, I was referring to burglaries, break-ins, covert threats, abuse and general violation of certain people's personal and professional lives. In my case it also included violence to pets.

         How I came to be involved is a complex story. Suffice to say I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and became a sort of witness to the criminal activity – not that I knew it at the time.
       • Anne 1.2.2.2

         5 June 2023 at 12:06 pm

         Since you have mentioned them TM, I should point out that the SIS had nothing to do with the Erebus Affair at the time of the tragedy or in the aftermath. It did not come under their job description. It was the work of a group of insiders plus a few desultory characters who were likely paid for the role they played eg. the break-ins and burglaries et al. I knew one of the participants.
     • Mac1 1.2.3

       5 June 2023 at 11:17 am

       Seeing Nicky Hager get this official recognition for his work pits me in mind of another NZ immigrant 'stirrer' who got his recognition in 1936 by being appointed to the Legislative Council as its 'conscience'.

       Mark Briggs MLC. Standing up to the establishment. I honour them both.

       https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/video/mark-briggs-great-war-story
   • Patricia Bremner 1.3

     5 June 2023 at 12:12 pm

     Brilliant, Nicky so deserves that.
2. Johnr 2

   5 June 2023 at 10:49 am

   We are having a holiday for Charlie's birthday. Even though it doesn't occur till November.

   Personally I'd like to trade 3 Charlie's birthdays for one 3 yearly public holiday for election day. It would always need to be on a Wednesday so it doesn't become just another long weekend. Close all retail except maybe eats and ales after 2pm. Rather like Anzac day.

   If it is made an occasion with limited other activities available it may concentrate the mind of non voters and increase participation on what is, to my mind, a far more important event than Charlie's birthday.
   • Tiger Mountain 2.1

     5 June 2023 at 11:32 am

     Good idea. Early voting seemed nice at first to up participation, but really it lets employers off the hook, the ones that don’t release workers to vote. Plus if people hold off till voting day it keeps pressure on the various parties to not pull stunts.

     I overheard someone at yesterday’s Kaitaia market say “that Charles is a wanker”, and a stall holder shot back “no he’s not, someone is paid to do it for him!”…
     • Phillip ure 2.1.1

       5 June 2023 at 1:53 pm

       An extension of the role of the royal 'groom of the stool..'..?
   • Belladonna 2.2

     5 June 2023 at 9:03 pm

     Yeah, Nah. Losing another public holiday would be just as popular with the electorate as when National proposed ditching Labour weekend to make up for the new Matariki Day.

     Really, workers are happy with their long weekend (or additional pay for working the Monday) – and don't care what the 'reason' is. Also, workers want a long weekend – 3 days off in a row is much more attractive, than 2 day weekend with a day or so at work, then a holiday).

     Having a day off isn't going to encourage people to vote. They either think it's important, or they don't. And, plenty of essential workers won't get the day off in any case (nurses, electricity workers, police) – don't their votes matter?
3. Stuart Munro 3

   5 June 2023 at 12:03 pm

   No Joy for voters hoping for improvements in freshwater quality.
4. fender 4

   5 June 2023 at 12:28 pm

   You've got to laugh when the party that's always preached the need for small government now wants to increase its size by creating a new "Ministry of Regulation" https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/491317/act-party-conference-a-new-ministry-to-sort-jungle-of-red-tape-speaking-out-against-te-tiriti-o-waitangi

   And apparently we need to go back in time to consult the public over the consequences of the creation of the Treaty of Waitangi.
   • Incognito 4.1

     5 June 2023 at 12:45 pm

     “You’ve got to find a role and in our view that role should effectively become the red tape and regulation police,” he [David Seymour] told the Herald on Sunday.

     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/red-tape-police-act-to-promise-enhanced-powers-to-ditch-excess-regulation-if-successful-at-election/WOZMX52YYNEWLOIT63PJXBOVIQ/

     The ‘Ministry for Regulation’ has an Orwellian ring to it and coming from the man who calls a discussion document on proposals to make media and online content safer for all New Zealanders “hate speech laws 2.0” it is no longer funny but downright chilling.
     • fender 4.1.1

       5 June 2023 at 1:34 pm

       There's definitely a chilling core to the class clown exterior he seemingly cultivates.

       If he were honest, he'd name it the Regulation Removal Ministry. It's just not fair that rules and regulations are preventing some from making money at peoples and environmental expense.
   • Ngungukai 4.2

     5 June 2023 at 1:18 pm

     TOW will be the first to go under ACT, that should start the pot boiling.
   • Tiger Mountain 4.3

     5 June 2023 at 2:04 pm

     I did a “what the?” when scanning the RNZ news and read that ACT proposes creating a new Ministry to reduce the activity of other Ministries…”red tape” apparently.

     The Epsom Twerker is no less a worry than other would be authoritarians around the globe.
     • mikesh 4.3.1

       5 June 2023 at 10:45 pm

       No doubt his proposed ministry will produce "red tape" of its own.
5. Mike the Lefty 5

   5 June 2023 at 2:05 pm

   Congratulations to Jacinda Adern and Nicky Hager, amongst others.

   Deserved award winners.

   Jacinda for her stalwart leadership in times of crises.

   Nicky for his refusal to be cowered into silence by the National Party's hit man squad.
6. mary_a 6

   5 June 2023 at 2:15 pm

   Cheers and congratulations to Jacinda. Her sometimes unpopular calls saved many Kiwi lives during the Covid pandemic. A great leader in times of crisis.

   Well done and congratulations Nicky Hager. An award well deserved in every respect.
7. Joe90 7

   5 June 2023 at 5:33 pm

   sad….

   
   • fender 7.1

     5 June 2023 at 6:23 pm

     Nice bit of narcissism there from the delusional idiot. He was just a bit player used by evil minded people in positions of power. They could have easily found some other useful idiot to do their dirty work for them. I doubt those same people have much respect for him, one would hope they feel ashamed for associating themselves with such a hideous creature.

     But at least he's had the sense to put bullets through the only copy ever printed thus erasing it from history hahahahaha
8. Patricia Bremner 8

   5 June 2023 at 5:51 pm

   A W….. word comes to mind for Cam!!! Infamous more like!!
9. pat 9

   5 June 2023 at 6:21 pm

   "They’re not waving, John, they’re drowning."

   https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2023/06/the-extinction-of-rebellion.html
   • Phillip ure 9.1

     5 June 2023 at 7:39 pm

     An interesting look back from c.trotter..

     But I don't share his pessimistic views on the possibility of a mass political movement bringing about great change..

     I think that mass movements worldwide will arise in the face of govts doing not nearly enough about climate change..

     That is where the next mass movements will be coming from..

     And in his nihilistic take.. trotter doesn't even entertain that possibility..
     • pat 9.1.1

       5 June 2023 at 7:50 pm

       Time will tell
10. joe90 10

    5 June 2023 at 7:18 pm

    heh

    .

    The only reasonable way to discuss cancel culture is not “Why are kids these days canceling people?”— it is “Why is this objectively unimportant niche phenomenon suddenly such a large part of mainstream discourse?” The most basic answer is “Because so much of mainstream discourse is produced by a narrow demographic of upper middle class middle aged uncool people who have never worked outside of media or politics or academia or nonprofits and whose nightmare is getting made fun of by college kids.” But on a more fundamental level, it’s that deep yearning for the things that cannot be purchased. Why do Ken Griffin and David Geffen and David Koch spend “charity” money not on feeding the poor, but to plaster their names on public buildings? Because they are thirsty for—above all—that public love. It is a sort of prestige, but not, ironically, the cheap sort of prestige that can be bought; what they desire deep down is the genuine love and respect of humanity. Their performative efforts to earn it are pitiful. But their desire never ebbs. That respect would amount to immortality for them.

    You ain’t gonna get it, fuckers. Though it would seem, rationally, that a bunch of not-rich college kids heckling a guy who makes $100 mil a year would mean nothing to him, that is not the case. The idea of being mocked and shouted down by the unwashed masses strikes fear in the heart of the powerful because it is emblematic of their inability to buy that respect that cannot be bought. This goes not just for moguls and billionaires, but for those who have achieved cultural success—the prestigious newspaper columnists who cannot stop writing dumbass columns about this spectacularly asinine topic because it represents their worst fears. Namely, that a lifetime spent worshiping at the altar of careerism and credentialism was all for nothing. When you have long cultivated a resume that demands respect only to be disrespected by a bunch of nobodies, it can shake you to your core. What was the point of it all, if the cool kids think you suck?

    https://www.hamiltonnolan.com/p/these-vampires-can-have-everything
11. Anne 11

    5 June 2023 at 8:15 pm

    For a bit of light relief from the serious stuff… how about Peter Cook and Dudley Moore's take on the birth of Jesus:

    Very funny.
12. Corey 12

    5 June 2023 at 8:30 pm

    Huge respect to Helen Clark for abolishing the honours system and then refusing to accept the title of Dame when Key brought it back.

    It's very disappointing but very on brand for Ardern, someone who claims to be a republican, to accept an archaic title from the royal family.

    Hypocrisy has been Arderns brand since the 2017 election where everything from her position on weed reform, welfare reform, tax reform, housing reform, healthcare reform, student loan reform (where is that second free year!?) Mental health reform, public transport all changed the day she became pm so I don't know why Id think she'd stay true to her republican ideals.

    Kings honours should be abolished. Labour members accepting them in 2023 are just … It's yuck.
13. joe90 13

    5 June 2023 at 8:37 pm

    The bike club for mathematicians.

    
14. joe90 14

    5 June 2023 at 9:04 pm

    Not everyone, apparently.

    @smdiehl

    We all know what happens to Ponzi schemes when you starve them of cash inflows.

    

    https://twitter.com/smdiehl/status/1664679805147574273

    @smdiehl

    It's remarkable how quite literally nothing came out of the crypto mania. Tens of billions of dollars invested and no actual companies or products. Probably the largest glut of malinvestment the United States has seen in the modern era.

    https://twitter.com/smdiehl/status/1664557865930031104

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