Te Reo Putake yesterday in TS added a good big dose of spice to the “Internal Debate” that is consuming the Labour Party members and supporters.
The very long string of comments focused on TRP’s adamant assertion that there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS” next month.
TRP strongly predicated this assertion on a few points.
The core one was that Labour will definitely win under Shearer and that all the Cunliffe faction are sucking-up in the hope of ministerial positions.
Friends, the relatively small recent movements in the polls show otherwise. We are no better off than when we lost in 2008. We would be better off if Phil had stayed. IMO. This is despite Key &co continually shooting themselves in both feet. The repeated trumpeting that there is a significant poll rise is just hype. Deluding ourselves will achieve nothing.
TPR’s next messaging is that “It’s policy that makes good government, not a slick leader.”
While a less than capable and polished Leader would be a secondary issue if there was a front bench free to communicate new policy, that is just not the case at present. Since 2008 we have tried to make new policies the plank for the leader to gain popularity. We are using policy only to underpin a less-than-slick leadership strategy for over five years. And putting policy in that diminished role has failed.
TRP then repeats the mantra that the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to loose. “And unless Shearer does something spectacularly stupid, he will be the next PM”.
Sleep-walking to victory. It is our turn to govern. The Nats will loose, we do not need to win! Don’t rock the boat boy and girls, we can sail into the Treasury benches if we paddle very quietly!
TRP then says that because he, TRP, cannot see any evidence of anyone throwing their hat is the ring then it is not happening. This stance suggests to me that TRP is a very well connected insider, possibly on the NZ Council or a similar lofty position.
The members do not come into TRP’s Wellington centred reckoning. However, they are telling their MPs the same thing they have been saying for the past eight months: the current leadership approach has not won the imagination of the membership, of the 800,000 that did not vote nor of the voting public. The membership is saying there must be a change.
We need a very wide change at the top, not merely the overdue retirement of King, Goff and Mallard to which TRP alludes. That change has to be in ATTITUDE towards reform as well as in personnel. The current attitude is damaging the party.
The serious concerns of the membership about the wider leadership’s approach to policy and to winning in 2014 drove the divisions at the Conference. The Conference was only the start of the reform process, not the end. The membership wants those reforms to be advanced, not snuffed. The membership see a robust leadership debate road-show as a critical part of this reform movement.
Khandalla Viper – I totally agree with your analysis. And especially about the oft-repeated mantra ” the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to lose”.
That is just what WILL happen if Labour does not change – both attitude, and the people at the top – Labour will lose yet again. And both our country and our people will suffer.
Come election year, the msm will turn against Shearer, Shon Key will “charm” the electorate again (and the electorate will fall for it !), the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014 and there might even be a larger number of non-voters, and the belief that National voters will somehow go to Labour because they don’t like Nat policies is misguided at best. National voters like being in power – and they never vote for Labour ! So they head for the polling booths en masse, and Labour voters stay at home. Its happened before, and it will happen again – if Labour does not change now.
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014”
That no party has stepped up to the plate to capture this vote bemuses me.
A huge opportunity wasted. If Craig can get the loony religious right to turn out, why not a party from the left aimed squarely at those disenfranchised from the system.
I had a plan, sent it to the Greens, twice, but heard nothing from them, though of course, I’m still willing to chat to Mr Servian in Hamilton West. 😉
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014″
And from the remainder who do vote, Labour could get 34%-35%, in an optimistic scenario. Certainly enough to hammer together a one term coalition of sorts, probably requiring NZ First. But climbing over 40%, to a result similar to what Labour achieved in both 2002 and 2005 is not a possibility that I have heard anyone even contemplating. Regardless of how many beers they have had.
As others have noted, this is a historical juncture for Labour.
From a comment to me on the Standard made by ‘i forget’ Chauvel ‘was’ in the Cunliffe camp but has not been demoted,
He performs well in the house and has the type of presence,(future leadership material), when on His feet speaking that has National Ministers cowering,
My view is that it isn’t important which particular faction the individual MP’s side with, more importantly is the willingness of the individual MP’s to vote to ‘trigger’ the party wide leadership February,
Should that occur, and i have my doubts, then whoever wins such a vote should be said to be the party’s choice and have the full backing of the party and it’s MP’s…
Hear what you’re saying regarding the relative lack of importance of the individual MPs’ factional loyalty. I agree.
The reason I’m interested is that I’m in the Ohariu electorate and have played with the idea of lending volunteer support in the next campaign. For that to happen David Shearer would need to be gone and CC would have to be one of the ones to see him off with a cheery wave.
I’m not a Labour party member and have almost completely lost faith in the party, while being increasingly Green and Mana. However, these are desparate times and you have to be practical so IF there were changes to the leadership and some solid and radical policy was announced I’d stand by them, as a voter and a practical supporter. It’s still a long and dreary wait till 2014 and much can change in that time so at this point I’m not holding my breath.
To my undying shame as a Party Member i trudged the miles stuffing letterboxes to aid the election of the Lange/Douglas fiasco,
There are still what seems a majority in the Labour Caucus who when the subject is broached nod sagely and intone with the utmost wisdom that what was inflicted upon the working class of New Zealand at the time ”had to happen”,
I stuck with Labour right up to the point where the Clark Government denied beneficiary dependent families the same tax credits as were given to the upper middle class,
I am now a Green Party Member and while my intentions this far out from 2014 are to vote Green i may be swayed by how close Mana can come to unseating Flavell, the Parliament could use the voice of Annette Sykes,
Should Sykes unseat Flavell the % of party votes should rise for Mana and if there was a chance of Mana gaining a third MP from the party vote they may well get mine,
Hope Metiria doesn’t read this or i am in trouble LOLZ, the above would of course depend upon the Green vote leading up to the 2014 election not only holding up but rising to at least bring one more Green MP into the house…
yes but that is not down to the actions of chauvel..heatley was born cowering..
..and as a person who has done commentaries on questiontime for some years..
..like the rest of the front bench..chauvel has not particularly impressed..
..(the best performer in labour is cunnliffe..hands down..he makes national ministers nervous..and nails them with cold/hard intellect/logic..)
..there is of course humour to be had from watching genter from the greens vs brownlee..
..it is a mouse vs. elephant kinda conflict..
..and i noted in an end of year summary that the mouse seems able to make the elephant bellow in distress on cue/at will..
..and as others have said more eloquently..this is a crossroads for labour..
..and yes..i also fear the party leadership is just planning on that sleepwalk to victory..
..which if successful..but without the needed policy u-turns on fighting poverty etc..
..they will be worse than useless..
..and like a previous commenter i have gone from a life-long labour voter..to green..to mana..
..and that because harawira seems to be the only one advocating concrete-policy to end poverty etc..
..why is labour scared of coming up with strong policies..and arguing them now..?
..i agree..that in tweedle-dee/tweedledum decades/govts like we have recently had/endured..that policy had to be kept hidden until just before the election..(‘cos tweedle could nick from tweedle..)
..but i really don’t think national are going to steal a brace of policies aimed at ending poverty..eh..?
..so i think that historical reality/way of doing things can be safely put to one side..eh..?
..and really..for a toxic govt such as this one – doing all they are doing that so many hate..(83% opposed to asset-sales…)..
..for labour to be smug/complacent/positively spinning the fact they are stuck down where they are in the polls..
I see nothing in those opinion polls but embarrassment for the Labour party. There’s spin, and there’s damn spin.
Regardless of being an mmp nation, low thirties, after four years of dodgy government shit, isn’t a positive endorsement of anything.
Someone in caucus must have been taking notes watching Bill English run the local economy – Do nothing and hope it picks up when other countries start spending up large again. Labour’s only chance is to forget the ‘credible alternative’ tag and make the agenda their own. Will they? If they past four years are anything to go by (save for three weeks of Goff flying solo in the election campaign) Will they f*ck.
In my brutally honest opinion, Labour’s a goner. It’s not the only party on the left, and again in my opinion, certainly not the best party on the left by a long way.
Shearer won’t be challenged, by anyone, and he’ll go on to mumble and fluster his way through every tv/house appearance all the way to 2014.
The leader is not more important than the party some will say, and they’re completely wrong. It does and will transfer into lost votes. I won’t vote for DS GR TM or any of the fuck nuggets pulling strings behind the scene, so that’s one.
I think TRP is right that no one will challenge in February, and that Shearer will lead Labour into the next election. The Labour caucus have shown such a remarkable lack of brains and guts that any other outcome is highly unlikely.
Labour will lose in 2014 and National will be a three term Government. Shearer will do okay in the polls up until the election campaign starts – steady or even moderately increasing from present position. The Shearerites will crow and say they were right and everyone else was wrong.
When the public get a look at Shearer during the debates they will baulk at the prospect of electing a PM who can’t string a sentence together and run back to John Key and National in fright. They will be pissed off at Labour for putting up an unelectable leader right when they wanted to get rid of National.
TRP is right Blue. There will be no challenge in February. I said so on yesterday’s O.M. He is also technically right that it isn’t so much a challenge as a ‘motion of confidence in the current leader.’ Shearer will get it, and it will be unanimous.
I think it’s a bit unfair to charge the Labour caucus with a lack of brains and guts. Setting aside the duped ABC Club acolytes, it’s not a lack of guts etc. It’s politics and commonsense. There was a coup alright… against Cunliffe. With the help of the MSM the coup organisers won. If Cunliffe and his supporters were to retaliate now they would be cutting their own throats.
I don’t agree that it’s all over for Cunliffe. He’s a relatively young man. He can afford to wait another few years – 5 years if necessary.
Anne you may well be right about this, supposing that nothing arises in the meantime to change the political landscape. However, the questions that have arisen in the past year or so will not, as Robert Winter puts it, “be patronised away.” http://robertwinter.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/labour-in-new-year.html
I have come to suspect that Shearer’s elevation, the handing out of rank with limited authority to various MPs, and the ABC concept itself are the result of deal-making of the “no Brash no cash” kind. To me, the speed with which the caucus raced to head Cunliffe off at the pass had all the hallmarks of a panicked group protecting a done deal. Furthermore, the defence that “Labour must appeal to the middle class” handily reduces the concept of middle class to those who think their interests coincide with corporate interests. No one seems willing to acknowledge that many of the angry commentators on the Standard, etc, are in fact middle class.
If the Shearer clique continue to protect him from the party’s judgement, then his legitimacy as a leader remains compromised. The deal or deals that got him there (supposing I am right) seem make opposing demands on him to those of the membership, who for the most part want a centre left Labour Party. They will not be appeased by ambiguity and empty flattery. So, OK, Shearer might survive a motion of confidence, but that does not mean that his problems are over.
It’s true. My hypothesis does rely on nothing arising in the meantime….
In the meantime, how Shearer rises to the reshuffle challenge will, in my view, give us some of the answers we are seeking in terms of his leadership and how genuine is his desire to reunite the caucus and a large section of the membership. He can only do it if he:
1) re-instates Cunliffe to the front bench with his previous portfolios.
2) promotes talent such as those shown by Charles Chauval, Sue Moroney (and others) who were effectively demoted 12 months ago because they supported David Cunliffe.
I wholeheartedly agree Anne, with the added caveat that these people are not just promoted, but given real authority over their areas of expertise, and not just empty rank with strings attached.
No more gagging and silly games like the one played on Cunliffe late last year. I refer to his… arriving at the meeting of the West Auckland Licensing Trust (I think it’s called that) to find David Parker had been sent in his place. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I saw it as an attempt by the ABC gang to further humiliate Cunliffe.
I suspect there are more malicious tricks that have not been made public – attempts to provoke him into lashing out a la Carter, so they can get rid of him once and for all. Which is why I think that deal-making must lie behind it – either that or the ABC group have a genuine crank among their number. I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
Not according to the almost uniformly hostile coverage of him in the media. I keep hearing and reading that Cunliffe is “not liked” by his colleagues. I’ve never heard or seen any “journalist” ever provide an example of what Cunliffe has done to incur this alleged opprobrium, however.
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
He is indeed, and not only in his electorate. He is highly regarded by a lot of people. And there-in I suspect lies much of the problem. Some of his caucus colleagues are jealous. Put it to them, and they would laugh out loud and exclaim… what a lot of nonsense. But imho, that is the core of the problem. It has been amply demonstrated that jealousy can cause some people to lose their marbles…
Oh and btw… we know there was deal making 12 months ago at the time of the contest. That’s why Parker pulled out of the race. He was promised the shadow Finance portfolio if he did so. What’s the bet he has also been promised the role of Finance Minister when they become the government. I don’t doubt his credentials for the job, but underhand deals and being a part of attempts to smear and discredit a perceived rival should not be prerequisites for premium ministerial positions.
David is adored by his LEC. Over the past 11 years I have watched him build it into a large, ethnically diversified, well-managed team.
If Cunliffe switches parties, I predict the entire LEC will switch with him. If he drops out of politics, I predict his LEC will virtually disappear.
If that happens, New Lynn will go National. New Lynn is NOT a safe Labour seat. We work damn hard to get the numbers for David. Compare the significantly higher vote tallies for David than for the Labour party vote.
If there is no open leadership contest in February, I will join the Greens but return to help Cunliffe’s electorate campaign in 2014.
He is far and away the most intelligent and creative MP in NZ today.
The only way his opponents have been able to counter him is with character assassination. That should tell you a lot about him and them.
Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the UK, Canada, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.
And an apology from David Shearer to ALL voters for his bullshit way of treating Cunliffe and others, all on the back of a Gower story hunt. So when ever I see a Gower story on TV3 website I always ask how a Snot nosed schoolboy can get a job like that.
I found TRP’s comments pretty odd as well. There needs to be a real distinction between leadership and policy; one is not a substitute for the other. Leadership is what makes policy real, even in Opposition.
For me the current leadership did a great job with the housing speech, but that’s one hit on a year of nothing. And indeed since the conference in November, pretty much radio silence.
Just astonishing at the lack of activity around the asset sales petition last week – indeed an unconvincing performance by Chippie that really did not carry beyond one news day. Anyone else stepped into that space?
And of course the holiday season is fantastic downtime where everyone is reading and wants to engage about stuff other than work. So where were the think pieces from Spokespeople in the newspapers? At our place we had well placed sources doing stuff for our industry right the way through. Newspapers are begging for content at this time, as are TV.
I know what leadership would feel like – and right now it’s just a hollow space. Holidays are not an excuse. They are a time to attack. Where’s the attack? Does Shearer have a date for this next massive speech, or is he going to wait for Parliament to resume?
Shearer has squandered a ripe leadership moment. I want my leadership vote. Give me my vote.
Kman: The election is Labour/Greens to lose. National are tired, running out of ideas, energy and, importantly, support parties inside Parliament. ACT and the Maori Party look stuffed, Dunne may just hang on, but that won’t be enough to keep the Nats in power. Key’s only hope is Winston, which looks like less of an option these days.
Jenny Kirk: ‘Time for a change’ will be a factor, for sure. National will need to do better than they did at the last election to win because of the collapse of the MP and ACT. That improvement seems unlikely going into a third election.
The Al1en: There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana. Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy … the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.
Blue: thanks, you seem to get where I’m coming from, even if you are pessimistic about the election.
Coronial Typer: you sound like you need a holiday yourself. Like it or not, parliament is on a break, there won’t be much political news for a few weeks yet. Which is fine by me, because MP’s are workers too and earn their breaks. (yes, I know, I snorted myself writing that sentence, but honestly, MP is such a shitty, all consuming and public job, most MP’s piss off overseas where noone knows them to get a real break).
“There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana.”
Not really. That’s a big assumption that those 800,000 identify with Hone’s agenda, just because they’re, for whatever reason out of the loop.
I’m not personally convinced mana represents outside it’s core constituents, which is of course their right to do so. There’s certainly room for another left party. Certainly room for an extra 5% that doesn’t come with winston, and certainly a cup of tea for our side to negate the one in Epsom.
I bet a new left party would consistently outpoll act, the conservatives and dare I say mana.
“Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy”
I wouldn’t know. The point was I didn’t get a reply, much to my bemusement.
“the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.”
No idea what that means, I’ll have to google, but I’m sure there’s plenty Golden Gordens.
You may have to expand, or not.
Golden Gordon was a legendary footballer in the comedy series Ripping Yarns. Specifically an episode about the hopeless Barnstoneworth United. Since the series came out, BUFC’s have popped up all around the world, including in Hamilton’s sunday league. It was my privilege to make up the numbers in that team a decade or two back, alongside the good Mr Servian.
If Shearer is the leader at the next election (it may not be in November 2014) then Labour are gonners and the 800,000 non-voters will pale by comparison. Yesterday I looked at the Labour Party website for policy statements; couldn’t find one. Labour had the best policies at the last election but still lost; how is it going to be different next time? Labour need a strong, articulate, caring and capable leader with the best interests of the majority of NZer’s at heart….. David Shearer is not the one.
The caucus is a mess. All down to the ABCer’s. Don’t they care?
A couple of days ago I asked (if by some miracle) David Cunliffe was elected leader what would he do about the ABCer’s. I haven’t had an answer yet. Looks like the LEC’s have some urgent work to do.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies its better to be be vague until 6 months from the election the best thing the left can do is highlight govts failures and mistakes at this stage!
3 left wing policies that the National Party cannot steal
1) 50,000 social housing units built by a renewed Ministry of Public Works, provided on both long and short term leases at 25% of household income, or alternatively sold to those on lower incomes via 1% pa no deposit interest rate mortgages.
2) 10,000 new trade apprenticeships for youth unemployed…working on building the socialised housing above.
3) Rationalisation of the NZ banking sector ensuring KiwiBank plays a far bigger role, including holding tens of thousands of new social housing mortgages on behalf of the government.
I’ll guarantee you that National could not steal the above policies. HOWEVER if you release CENTRIST MIDDLE OF THE ROAD POLICIES then yes, National will steal them.
Of course, the other reason you might not want to release policy yet is if you don’t have any ready to go.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies
And if they’re good policies, and Labour actually lets people know that they’re Labour policies, then Labour makes a huge song and dance every single time about it.
Here’s the key messages, thought up in about two minutes off the top of my head:
“We’re happy to see the National government taking up Labour policies.”
“Clearly this government has run out of ideas, but that’s okay, because this is a good Labour policy.”
“The Government has done the right thing by realising their policies haven’t helped New Zealand at all, and that Labour policies will get us out of the hole they’ve dug in the economy.”
“We’re happy we can help steer New Zealand in the right direction by providing good, productive, sensible policies which the Government wants to steal.”
The thought of Shearer as PM is depressing to me. So far I’ve not seen anything about him that appeals: not his public performances, not his political positioning (or lack of any real commitment to truly left wing policies), not his personality – nada.
However, I’m really not certain who there is that would make a good LP caucus leader. Cunliffe certainly needs to be in the front-tow team, but he may or may not make a good leader.
In the face of this, the only way forward at this stage, is for me to put more effort in supporting the Greens/Mana, and in supporting whatever the NZLP members come up with. With more democratic tools, it’s only the membership that can shift the NZLP in a positive direction, IMO. And that also means focusing on promoting policies and directions that are soundly those of the left and wider labour movement.
But surely Cunliffe is a BETTER option than Shearer. With Shearer there is no way Labour will win; our only chance, irrespective of policy, is with Cunliffe…. there is no other option that I can see.
Yes, I would prefer Cunliffe. Don’t know how he will go in leading caucus, and if he will be able to unite them, though. Shearer is a non-starter, IMO.
Just noting that TRP is very consistent; last year he said that as long as Labour’s polling stayed good, Shearer was “home and hosed” as Labour Leader and that we should all get used to it.
PM Shearer is a distinct possibility in 2014. For what it’s worth.
But Shearer’s possibility, on previous form, is reliant on a nat fall over and certainly not from what I’ve seen, the inclusive politics he spoke about in the race to succeed Goff.
A win by default is still a win, but not really what I want from a party chasing my vote, or the sort of ambitious, aspirational government I’m looking for in exchange for it.
Gut feeling about 2014, still very much key’s to lose.
Yep. It’s the classic “don’t rock the boat” sleepwalk to victory. Which I also abhor.
Currently, our entire country (world?) is sleepwalking off a resource depletion and climate change cliff. Hands-off market led neoliberal style bullshit got us here and is not going to cut it.
It’s a weakness and along with abhor, something that should be resisted.
The people need a leader they can follow. It’s a dire prognosis all around if we don’t find one, nationally and abroad. cometh the time etc..
It’s not coming from NZP, so where? Is maybe the more urgent question needed to be addressed.
Oh yes they have been consistent They have NOT polled above 33.5% since 2008. And this is good why?? SO Shearer may lead them to the next train wreck/election. As I said before it’s all about trust. And the only thing we can trust Shearer to do, is protect his pay packet!
I know that CV But with all the screw ups the NACTS have had last year, anyone with half a brain would have made hay at their expense. But what did we hear from Shearer and co the deafening sound of Silence, as usual! And with all the screw ups then Labour should have been about 40+ not stagnant at 32.5.
The Nats are preparing to torpedo Shearer in four streams.
a)They will get tame journos to ask “off piste” questions to try to embarrass him.
b) Key will push for heaps of face to face opps to try to embarrass him.
c) The Nats have background and context to his “Kiwi of the Year” nomination.
d) The management style and tactics deployed in the UN job will be compared to the Labour job.
The Nats are determine not to give 2014 away without a fight and they will fight as dirty as it takes. They believe they can win because Winston’s price is known.
They vuew the current labour leadership as its Achilles heel.
At your service, KV. Did I mention that it was the comment of yours saying that CC had me as her first target which made me realise that the temperature was climbing higher than I expected and that action was required? Thanks for that.
Curran apologise? **guffaw** That’ll be a democratic socialist day in caucus. Regardless, I don’t require any apology from her.
As for pugatory mate, I had a good stay, better than that I made good friends with a few leviathans while I was away 😈
Last week the Syrian Government announced it had captured the brother of assassinated Al Qaeda leader al Zawahiri (who if we have to believe the US has been killed several times over the last few years). No Western MSM wanted to run with it.
Mohamed al-Zawahiri was captured on what the rebels and the MSM are calling a humanitarian mission!
What gets me is that we have invaded Afghanistan on what we were told was to eliminate the worlds most dangerous terrorist organization. We invaded Iraq and killed a million people to catch these bastards and now the leader is doing humanitarian work?
That a good one, He who was captured is just as likely to be in the employ of either the UN or the US via the Saudi Government,
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war,
Priorities tho have now changed, Syria being the new target of US sponsored destabilization calls for new strategies and assets of Arab extraction are of premium value in turning Syria into a failure of a State to match those of Afghanistan and Iraq,
Next stop for the road show of course is Iran, all that oil yummy…
Bad12, from what I can make out the west is panicking. there are no real good options. the chances of Zawahiri being in the pay of the Sauds, let alone the west, are remote. He considers the sauds to be apostate.
The west at the moment is most concerned about assads weapons falling into the hands of the rebels, and who may get their hands on them after that. If the west sends in troops, that’s what they will doing, isolating and destroying as much of assad’s stockpile as they can.
the Russians are moving ships, and marines into the area, probably to be a counter force (ripwire) against escalation, and to protect a pocket for Allawites to flee to. Also, to cover the withdrawal of Russian ‘civilians’.
That’s highly amusing, i always enjoy someone who parrots the news gathered from the MSM as if it were the Gospel,
Lets see now,Zawahiri thinks the Saudi’s are apostate but happily worked alongside Bin Laden, whose family is Saud and part of the ruling class as well as personal friends of the Bush family,
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before,
What the US in particular is most concerned about at the moment is the destabilization of the Arab country’s with strong leadership who do not align themselves with the US,
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Don’t forget the tens of billions in reconstruction contracts for western corporations coming in to rebuild infrastructure smashed by western laser guided bombs a la Libya. It’s a great deal: one $50K bomb can create $20M in reconstruction contracts. Excellent return on investment.
I’m glad you find it amusing, but it’s ironic that the amusement is based on so much ignorance.
Yes, Bin laden is (or rather was) a Saud. But his citizenship was revoked at around the time he declared jihad on the regime. This happened a long time ago. You can find his declaration of war on the Sauds in plenty of places.
If you read it, and only that, you’ll find it useful to understanding these guys. You’d be better to read “The Looming Tower” which is very thorough.
The main thing, I guess, is to understand what AQ, Islamic Jihad and related theorists mean by “the near enemy”, and “the far enemy”.
And it’s not accurate to claim that AQ was funded by the CIA. AQ was set up to act as an alternative for jihadis. Bin laden felt that western funding of jihad was counterproductive, that it would co-opt any jihad and prevent sharia being implemented. that’s why he set up “the base” and sought funding from wealthy salafists. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, he offered to use this ‘base’ of supporters and jihadis to wage jihad. The Saud regime turned him down.
none of this stuff is secret, or propaganda, it’s history.
I was going to leave this, but given your demands in another thread that people debate in a manner fitting for this site, or whatever horseshit it is you are saying, I’ll give it a few minutes more, for your amusement.
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Yep. I’m saying that. There is little to no credible evidence that the US funded AQ, and nothing at all that is conlcusive. The so called ‘Arab afghans’ were few in number (under 10,000) and pretty much kept to themselves. They were funded by Arabs, including OBL. OBL, late in the war, set up AQ as a database of arab mujaheddin to be used in fighting the ‘near enemy’ That’s why it translates as ‘the base’ and it’s why in those grainy ‘training videos’ you see them doing guerilla warfare training rather than terrorist training.
Those who claim AQ was funded and or created by the CIA or the US, tend to be ignorant about the war and the philosophies of those involved. They assume that because the CIA was providing funds and weapons to mujaheddin that this included AQ. It’s lazy and ignorant,, but suits their purpose.
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before
All sorts of places. the most relevant would be Iraq after the first gulf war. The regime admits it has them, the rest of the world’s intelligence agencies agree. Are you saying they do not? based on what? A logical fallacy along the lines of ‘Bush claimed Saddam had wmd in 2003 but he didn’t, therefore all such claims are false” perhaps? (And I’ll just note in passing here that I never mentioned WMD, the concern around that is real of course, but the missile stocks and other conventional weaponry is just as troubling).
Surely you could not be that stupid. So please. if you doubt he has chemical weapons, outline the reasons for that doubt in the face of the evidence that he does have them.
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Citation very much required, because that is hilarious. If one reads the histories of AQ and Blackwater, one is struck by the similarit.., nah, that’s just fucking daft.
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
So come on, tell me about my belief system and how it related to those wars, and how it didn’t change.
And then, tell me where you get your information from, if not from the media. Because at the moment it looks like you reject something if it is said in the media, as long as it doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions about how things ‘really are’.
It’s all pretty weak, and anticipated in my comment.
You’ve ignored most of what I said, and have, as predicted, conflated mujaheddin with AQ.
Here’s your initial; claim:
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war
Operation cyclone was about supporting the mujaheddin, and there is no conclusive evidence that OBL was funded. The implication that he was directly funded by the US is even harder to substantiate, which is probably why you are having such a hard time coming up with any good direct sources or quotes.
I’ll repost this in the relevant thread and hopefully we’ll see something substantive.
I really want to hear about my belief system and the evidence for doubt about Assad’s weaponry
Where is anyone in the western MSM calling it a humanitarian mission ( as opposed to reporting that it is being called that by the syrian rebels)? (Your link is 404d and I can’t find it).
Here is a copy of the guys peace proposal from back in september:
(Hope that link works, you might need to register to FP to see it, which is free to do and well worth while, even if just to see what FP pros are saying).
There is nothing too surprising in it. Mohamed al-Zawahiri is a founding member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and his ‘peace proposal’ reflects that. ‘Sharia law = peace’ pretty much.
Eve: not seeing any justification for your claim that the ‘MSM’ are calling it a humanitarian mission. That piece, and it looks to be the one you linked to, outlines the links between violent Islamic extremists and the rebels in some detail.
No you are right. The “rebels” are telling us he was there on a humanitarian mission. And the article is faithfully repeating that. While claiming that Assad will no doubt try to make the most of the capture of this friendly old man who was according to the “rebels” only trying to broker deals so aid could get through and daffodils could grow in peace.
The article reports some facts.
– The regime claims about the capture
– The rebel’s response to those claims
– Some background on some of the rebel groups.
You stated that the MSM had never suggested that al Zawahiri had been on a humanitarian mission. I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
In fact they suggested that Assad would do just that, implying that just because Zawahiri was in Syria talking with “rebels” and with his violent al Qaeda background this did not mean he was there for nefarious reasons and that Assad would just use his capture for propaganda reasons.
Other than that your comment is disingenuous as you were the one “complaining” that the MSM had not in fact claimed themselves that Z was in Syria for Humanitarian reasons. I like it when you do that because while I know you won’t go to any of the link I give there are many who do which helps spreading information which might allow people to make up their mind in different ways than the Propaganda machine would like
I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
Well, let’s see what the ‘MSM’ said after reporting the conflicting claims about what the claimed presence of Zawahiri means:
Ayman al-Zawahiri, who took over as al-Qa’ida leader following the killing of Osama bin Laden, has declared that it is the duty of Muslims to take part in a jihad against the “pernicious, cancerous regime” of Bashar al-Assad and warned the opposition against depending on the West for help.
Jabhat al-Nusra, an Islamist rebel group with links to al-Qai’da, has become increasingly powerful in the conflict, overshadowing the more moderate fighters, and its leader, Abu Muhammad al-Julani, is said to be in personal contact with Ayman al-Zawahiri.
There is also evidence of groups of foreign volunteers, albeit not in large numbers, joining the uprising. Mohamed al-Zawahiri has, however, denied in the past that he wanted to get involved in the Syrian struggle. Speaking in Cairo recently, he stated that he had no plans to join the rebellion. Mr Zawahiri spent 14 years in an Egyptian prison on charges of being involved in the assassination of President Anwar Sadat in 1981 and taking part in terrorist acts. But he has protested his innocence and insisted that he now devotes his time to attempt reconciliation between jihadists and mainstream Islam.
Mohamed al-Zawahari is a former military commander of the Islamic Jihad movement, but has, he has stressed, turned away from violence. He claims to have been a conduit for talks between hardline Salafist groups in the Sinai and the Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood government. Last year Mr Zawahiri offered to help in negotiations between the US and Islamists and maintained that his attempts at reconciliation had made him a target for hardline Islamists who have accused him of betraying the cause. There is no evidence that his offer was taken seriously by the US administration.
The reports of his presence in Syria have come from rebel factions but remain unconfirmed.
Deraa, near the Jordanian border, has, however, become a stronghold for Jabhat al-Nusra where its “emir”, the organisation has announced, is Abu Julaybib, a brother-in-law of the former leader of al-Qa’ida in Iraq who was killed in an American air strike in 2006.
They detail the reported presence of various AQ related people and groups within Syria, if anything, that supports the regimes claims, does it not? Are they denying, or downplaying the links to AQ?
What would rather they do:
1) Censor the claims by the rebels and just report the regimes claims?
Or
2)report the claims of all sides, and the known links, and allow readers to exercise their judgement about the claims made?
PB, are you really trying to use logic on a ticking fruitcake? Well good look and I applaud your optimism, but keep that up and we might be questioning your sanity too.
Labour is at a critical point in its life cycle. If it doesn’t make changes soon it will continue to slowly slide backwards in the poles. The main winner will be the Greens. The other winner will be National as the swing voters will chose to stay with them.
I have been a member of the Labour Party for a mere 18 months, and its been a real let down the way MP’s treat members… “amateur” is the word that comes to mind. The Caucus need a real shake up otherwise long term Labour support is going to continue to decline. But then you get the impression that many in the caucus don’t really care about the Party in the long term!
(ps: I have always had the impression that TRP has a contact in the ABC club.)
National’s friends are wanting the Commerce Commission to be gutted because it is attempting to reduce Chorus charges.
According to an earnest sounding Simon Botherway on Radio New Zealand the surge in the share market experienced last year is threatened because investors will be afraid that the Commission “has become an activist body for consumers and forgotten about the risk that investors take with their money.” Obviously the return to investors should be the only concern of the Government body.
He makes no comment about whether or not Chorus’s charges were justified. Perhaps he thought this to be irrelevant.
This typifies the attitude of the wealthy and was an underlying cause of the global financial crisis. Returns to investors are never enough and any entity which stands in the way must be weakened.
We have still got a long way to go before New Zealand’s utilities quake before regulators. It’s the usual drill:
(A) Ask the (insert major industry) for advice on how to regulate, to which they reply it’s too hard, truly, and should be best left to self-regulation. Under National this usually works, but often works under Labour as well.
(B) When the self-regulation idea fails, the (insert major industry) sets itself up as the collective wisdom in this terrifyingly complex field and provides all the research for the government Department drafting the regulations. And then poach their staff.
(C) When the limits of this – and all the stalling entailed within it – are reached, the (insert major industry) seeks “peer review” from “international best practise” which a thin little country like this couldn’t know, and all the major consultants in the world for (insert major industry) know that the government job will be a one-off, but the industry will be around for ever buttering their bread.
(D) After several years, and a change of government, which (insert relevant industry) 3rd party funded up the wazoo to get in, the Board of the regulator is formed after all manner of golf games have been played
(E) The regulations are finally enacted, which are so complicated because of the size and power and national importance of the (insert major industry) that only a real dork of a lawyer couldn’t find a loophole, and finally
(F) By the time everyone’s filed and counter-filed and appealed to all relevant layers, there’s been no regulation for well over a decade. Or another fresh government has decided the whole thing just wasn’t worthwhile so we all just have to start again with a different kind of regulatory system, new legislation, and a restructure of the regualtors themselves.
This is practise we are seeing now, as with the massive utility price case we see down at the Wellington High Court which has been going on for several years now and will be appealed for several more.
Or you could do what the last Labour leader with any balls did with a major utility: cut their head off. Poor old Telecom. They hadn’t realised that David Cunliffe had ensured that the Cabinet SubCommittee had been fully delegated to make the decision to cleave them in half, rather than needing the next full Cabinet meeting.
That was not only policy in action, that was Leadership. That’s what it feels like.
+1 an interesting analysis would be the amount in each utility bill that goes to lawyers, auditors, staff and management overhead required to deal with compliance issues including base regulation, comm comm tiffs etc, so in effect the whole shooting match that’s grown since these were all gov’t departments.
Some are nonsense and must be challenged as the regulators often go ‘how about this, that should give us all something to do…’ and some are essential to prevent profiteering. Problem is the big money isn’t spent by the rule makers it’s the Utilities who invest big to ensure they stay one step ahead, all at the consumers cost.
DC showed how it’s done with TCom and they showed arrogance and contempt for the open market. IMO it effectively set a standard the cowering caucus know they’ll not measure up to.
I miss the box on the voting form to re-nationalise industries, that would be an interesting result.
The only thing that needs to be done with utilities is that they should be brought back into government ownership as a state monopoly. It’s the only way to get lower costs and it does that by getting rid of the mass duplication of competition.
Hey IrishBill you issued a major policy challenge on the weekend. Big call for the authors here, and the editors.
When are you going to start turning that into a project – something beyond the usual wishlists and fantasies and theoretical catastrophies I see here usually?
Over at the National Business Review there is a lively comments section underneath their printing of Brian Edwards’ now infamous paean for “Sir” Paul Holmes.
What makes it more interesting than usual is that one of the commenters is one David Walden, a puffy advertising man who, together with Murray Deaker, ran the idiotic Black Heart campaign in 2003, which had to be closed down after a series of incidents, including restaurateurs refusing to serve the Alinghi crew, and some supporters physically threatening the Alinghi crew members’ families.
With not even the slightest sense of irony, Walden has posted the following gem: “God I hate the small minds in this country who take a swipe at anyone who has the balls to put their head above the parapet, have a go , and succeed. Get a life!”
Why don’t YOU comment? It’s easy and you’ll get straight through….
Back at work again. The DIY “holiday” is now behind me. No more cables to hide, washing lines to install, doors and windows to fix, toilets to stop dribbling, computers to change hard drives with SSD’s, etc etc.
I got a lot less done than I wanted on The Standard.
C’mon, McFliper, you c’n do it! Best strategy, seeing as you’ve already read the offending article, is to skip the mediocre thing and go straight to the comments.
Yep. I prefer to let them rot, if they’re well out of my way. It’s only when I’m in danger of stepping in one that I feel compelled to manhandle it out of the way.
Shearer shows he means it – by Mike Smith – December 21, 2011
Quoted below in full, without further comment.
Labour’s new leader promised a fresh approach. He’s delivered already in his speech in reply today. Gone is the ritual opening denunciation of the government’s programme – Shearer begins with where a new Labour government would start.
He puts Labour firmly on the path to winning in 2014 – the intention is clearly stated and the programme for the clean, green and clever New Zealand is exactly the right one. He understands what New Zealanders expect of their MPs. It’s a very good start.
Far be it for anyone to point out that being positive and looking forward might be just as legitimate a political tactic as doing nothing but criticising and whinging from the sidelines like a tool.
I’m not doing nothing. I’m questioning these above statements.
When an opposition party remains as quiet as Labour have this year over the vast array of issues occurring, you can be assured that a large number of potential voters will assume what I have in the above comment. Crying and complaining about that being stated as much as you like, however it won’t change the veracity of it.
It goes like this: “Why bother voting? The two main parties are much of a muchness”
Sound familiar?
Many voters not voting is o.k for whoever gets in, they still get the baubles of office. This is not-so good for the general welfare of the country however. Is this type of moral hazard going on in our main opposition party?
You are welcome to be positive. At present I see no real reason for that with regard to Labour’s recent behaviour.
Any business would know that complaints are an opportunity for improvement. Far better than people having a negative thoughts/experiences and keeping quiet. Word of mouth is the most effective advertising. But of course, McFliper, you know that, that is probably why you wrote your comment. Here’s a thought: instead of complaining about well-founded comments, how about complaining to the Labour caucus that their message ain’t strong enough? That way we will both be happy.
yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually meaning anybody here when I wrote it, and that’s the truth. Sorry I didn’t express myself properly. Possibly linked to the wrong comment, too.
Indeed, part of my opposition to the seemingly incessant anti-shearer stuff some commenters put forward here is expressly because this forum is not just an echo-chamber. And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness”.
But I think that putting positives forward rather than attacking directly is a legitimate tactic in this case:
a) key and nact will not rise to it. They don’t give a shit, and will lie without a flicker of doubt. This lessens the effectiveness;
b) Mana/Greens/NZ1 are attacking, and even some good work by labour front benches (Ardern has been very active in areas of my interest). Rather than overload the opposition with negativity, I think the leader (whomever it be) should provide vision (in a positive comparison to when Key lays down the credibility of his ministers to save himself);
c) Labour did the attack thing all through the last term, to little avail. Time for a reconsider, is my guess.
Yes, complaints are an opportunity for improvement. But sometimes the squeakiest wheel is not needed, at which point it behoves one to consider the cost/benefit of just letting it seize up or fall off rather than feeding it more grease.
ps sorry about the handle change – form autofill on another machine 🙂
Ah that’s a relief, I thought I was heading for another “be positive; no I won’t” type conversation. There have been enough of them!
Yes it is good to list the positives I agree with most of the list apart from c), which I don’t think amounted to much compared with the other parties. I really do have a real worry about what type of government Labour are planning to create next time they are in power and this concern largely comes from the weakness surrounding their attacks on this current “government” (well that’s what is is commonly called, anyway…more closely resembling a circus if you asked me…).
I usually get rather annoyed with people saying that Nat and Labour are much of a muchness, there is a distinct difference when each party is in power (for those on the extreme ends of poverty/wealth anyway). My comment was really trying to illustrate what I believe is a general impression created by a lackadaisical opposition style…didn’t Labour have an approach of cooperation with the last term’s Government in order to come across as “fair and reasonable”? What effect did that have on the voter turn-out? Just sharing my train of thought here, not hard and fast conclusions, however they are getting that way….
That is an interesting comment re letting the squeaky wheel seize up…that is a good point.
The trouble with the 2011 campaign is that it can be made to say nothing of note.
People who want to point out Labour being reasonable as a cause of their turnout, can.
People who want to say Labour was “too left” in the campaign by going back to its roots and scaring off voters, can.
People who want to say labour was “too negative”, can.
It’s like 2014: if the next two years are like 2012, then Labour’s low vote will be blamed on Shearer by Cunliffe supporters, and blamed on negative-nellies by Shearer supporters (or those who are happy for any change from National and hope that the minor parties rather than Labour will drive the major policy shifts).
There’s also an instinctive bias that what we recall of Labour 2008-11 is what others recall. My personal impression is that Labour left the policy push too late, and that prior to that they still had the tired look from the 2008 defeat.
I think that if Labour bounce around policy ideas this year (and yes have an open leadership vote if Cunliffe or anyone wants to run), they can have a bit more “oomph” in 2014 than 08/11.
..which kinda leads to a question I have been pondering recently. Are the Labour Party doing any market research on their strengths and weaknesses, as in, doing some sort of information gathering on what might have been the cause of their poor results last election? Or low voter turnout?
I realize this type of research would never be entirely accurate, however it would be good to know that some sort of feedback loop was being conducted; trends could probably be discovered.
Talk to the membership.
NO NEED FOR MARKET RESEARCH. That is what is f#c@ing us.
We are a political party. The values, issues, concerns, worries, ambitions and the family, community, business activities of our members is our information database.
That is why we changed our constitution, so that the input of the members will have more influence on the Caucus.
Our MPs, NZ Council reps, Policy and Sectoral people are connected to most facets of society and the economy. (Perhaps a few in the “Beltway” of Wellington are not!)
Most of the frustration expressed in these pages in the past year have been a cry for the Caucus to listen to the MEMBERS.
hmm yes…I see what you mean McFlock re KV’s response (heh), however the links you provided appeared to be talking about focus groups for policies. I was more talking about perceptions and finding peoples’ reasons for the non-vote…I think there would be important information to be had out of such research. In fact I have already commented on what I figure might be one cause.
Khandalla Viper (&McFlock) I believe I am referring to something different than what you are talking about. The end result of what you promote in your comment and what I am referring to may achieve the same thing; more connection with the voters.
Lets not be forgetting that a lot (if not most) voters are not reading up on policies at election-time*; there is something else that they are basing their vote on.
*I admit this is an assumption, yet one I am prepared to risk making.
It is my perception that Labour have been really flailing around, kind of stabbing in the dark, as to their general approach, for years. Policies are very important (obviously), however strategy is too. I believe Nat is popular solely due to strategy, not policies. Isn’t the Asset Sales policy a case in point? Knowing what is turning voters off is pretty important information, and when it comes to elections I suspect (sadly) that policy is a very small part of what makes a Party popular.
“And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness””
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my version of that complaint is that Labour has, in effect, become part of the mechanism of shutting out opposition to the assumptions of neoliberalism, or whatever you wish to call it.
It’s like the ‘good cop’ to National’s ‘bad cop’ – but the overall effect is the same; to get the electorate to submit to the ‘inevitability’ of a deregulated, market-based, ‘non-political’ means of making collective determinations about our future as a society.
To the extent that Labour continues to cleave to the economic individualism rationale for solving social issues (e.g., housing crises) it remains a non-left party by any substantive definition of what the term ‘left’ means.
Only through proudly advocating collective, political means to solve social issues could it correctly be called a left-wing party. Remember that even Douglas claimed that he wanted the same ‘ends’ as Labour had always wanted – he was just implementing different ‘means’.
The means are actually what distinguish ‘left’ and ‘right’ because the means are the ends – it’s all about different ways to run a society, after all.
It is in that sense that I think the current Labour caucus is part of the same ‘symphony’ and acts (no doubt unwittingly) in concert with National – albeit Labour performs a different ‘movement’ from that performed by National, with correspondingly different ‘tones’.
@Puddleglum
I fundamentally agree with your comment, Your first two paragraphs describe well, in my mind, why I hear many many comments re “the two main parties being much of a muchness”.
In the bigger picture, perhaps they are not so very different, however, when it comes to details, I disagree with them being (exactly) the same. i.e. it does make a difference having a Labour/coalition government. i.e when someone says to me “I’m not voting because all parties are the same” I implore them to vote (as long as they seem like a left wing voter!!).
I believe that even small differences matter greatly – often to many people.
‘Good cops’ are better to have dealing with you than ‘bad cops’.
Voting matters immensely – and always will – in that way. It is one way of making society less painful for many people.
My father always used the old line – ‘If you don’t vote, you can’t complain’; and he was a lifelong socialist (having given up on the Communist Party at age 13). The lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils.
Labour is not a revolutionary party and hasn’t been for decades. I doubt it ever will be again.
Reversing neoliberal market-based approaches needs revolutionary perspectives forced by the minor parties so that the accepted norm shifts left again. Kiwibank, rail, are cases in point.
People who want a fundamental reversal of key’s policies, let alone lab4, need to givetheir vote to either parliamentary left parties, or even get more extreme left parties up to approaching 1% so that parliamentary parties start poaching their policies. Or the ~1%ers even get elected themselves.
Give power to the greens and mana and labour will move left despite those in its caucus who are idiot careerists. The difference between labour and national is that national need act to make them look like a moderating force rather than looters and thieves. Labour want to do good but are too afraid. It is still a fundamental difference.
People by nature have a bias towards optimism and expecting the best outcomes. That’s why a slogan like towards a brighter future is so manipulative and cynical. Sometimes “optimistic” is exactly the same as “unrealistic”.
“DPMC’s guidance note sets out how ministers and officials should talk publicly about listed companies, stressing the importance of making any market-moving decision outside of trading hours.
Ministers should only make a major statement that could affect a listed company when trading is open when there is a compelling reason.”
Opposition unbound, with National caught in the worst of both worlds.
So the Asset Sale Opposition Leadership mantle Race begins again: Which Labour or Green or NZ First MP will be the first to talk the price down?
Posted this on Sunday night, reposting now to catch a few more peeps, relevant since we are talking about more manufacturing job losses in NZ.
Rolls Royce Engines: the beauty of high value manufacturing
An amazing documentary, showing the kinds of wealth, capability and community that high tech, high added value manufacturing brings. It also makes it clear that this kind of expertise is gained over many years or decades and has to be protected and nurtured over the long term.
Oh that was lovely – incredibly beautiful, functional, high performance works of engineering and art.
Unfortunately the nagging voice of global warming in the back of my mind made it feel a bit like Pr0n
Yes, they are in the US context, but campaigning has changed – and it’s more than just flinging up a Facebook page or tweeting now and then. Buying ads on Youtube to get younger voters for example.
Target advertising messages/policy discussions at the medium for each market;
target each speech to the audience;
get as much facetime as possible;
release news statements to frame discussion as soon as possible – lead events don’t just react (or even worse do nothing);
involve your party membership in electioneering activities;
maintain contact with voters who show interest;
keep initiating contact with voters who don’t;
use party activists to register electors in target areas;
get the vote out on the day.
more Habbadashery-Why do we look at injustice? Why do we tolerate wrong? Destruction and violence are before us; strife and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed (aware of the backlog in the courts since “reform school”), and justice rarely prevails.
-You have made men like fish in the sea, like sea creatures that have no ruler. The wicked foe pulls all of them up with hooks, he catches them in his net. he gathers them up in his dragnet; for by his net he lives in luxury and enjoys the choicest food. is he to keep on emptying his net, destroying nations without mercy?
“Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on? Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim. For the revelation awaits an appointed time; It speaks of an end and it will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it;
“Nourish the cock, but do not sacrifice him, since he is sacred to the sun and the moon”(forget the greek I think it was)
-every pebble is an exception so Blam Blam blame?
“Allegory is life giving and and biblical “literalism” as meant today, is life denying”. Now all these things happened unto them for examples and they are written for our admonition.
(I’m not looking for a New England) William Wilberforce read the KJ every day (obviously I don’t) and had it’s cadences and rhythms running through his veins= Obama-care
meanwhile, now the Commerce Commission are under attack (for being a “consumer Watchdog” ??? wtf) by Investors and their fund managers
Greed! was a discussion I had with a tangata whenua tane the other day; “No Limit to it”, he asserted. Pushin’ buttons? see the supermarkets after the New Year break? people were clearly emaciated and needed some more chippies and soft drink.
A personal note to Colonial Viper regarding your comment yesterday:
“Like “freedom fries”? Not sure if this is where you are coming from, but I have a dislike of the American-style use of ‘freedom’ as a word pseudo-representing all that is good and wholesome and God-fearing in the world.”
For a first hand account of what it is like to lose virtually all of one’s “freedoms” at the hands of a dictatorial regime, contact an amiable acquaintance of mine, Kim Dotcom.
Hi AmaKiwi. For real ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ we have to move beyond a sole ballot box focus to that of broader democratic institutions, checks and balances (which might include binding referenda), and values throughout society.
Specifically applied to the Kim Dotcom case, the police and the SIS need to be acting in ways which uphold democracy, natural justice and due process, not offshore corporatism.
Ouch. Didn’t really expect that the server would very slowly resize it’s disk footprint because I wanted more CPU. But it is ok now after the site was offline for an hour.
I’ll see if that fixes the peaking issues from todays dose of bots.
Tommorrow’s task is less of a problem – round two of the backup systems.
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Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
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Te Reo Putake yesterday in TS added a good big dose of spice to the “Internal Debate” that is consuming the Labour Party members and supporters.
The very long string of comments focused on TRP’s adamant assertion that there will be a “UNANIMOUS VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN SHEARER IN CAUCUS” next month.
TRP strongly predicated this assertion on a few points.
The core one was that Labour will definitely win under Shearer and that all the Cunliffe faction are sucking-up in the hope of ministerial positions.
Friends, the relatively small recent movements in the polls show otherwise. We are no better off than when we lost in 2008. We would be better off if Phil had stayed. IMO. This is despite Key &co continually shooting themselves in both feet. The repeated trumpeting that there is a significant poll rise is just hype. Deluding ourselves will achieve nothing.
http://www.colmarbrunton.co.nz/images/ONE_News_Colmar_Brunton_Poll_report_24-28_Nov_2012.pdf. http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4847/
TPR’s next messaging is that “It’s policy that makes good government, not a slick leader.”
While a less than capable and polished Leader would be a secondary issue if there was a front bench free to communicate new policy, that is just not the case at present. Since 2008 we have tried to make new policies the plank for the leader to gain popularity. We are using policy only to underpin a less-than-slick leadership strategy for over five years. And putting policy in that diminished role has failed.
TRP then repeats the mantra that the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to loose. “And unless Shearer does something spectacularly stupid, he will be the next PM”.
Sleep-walking to victory. It is our turn to govern. The Nats will loose, we do not need to win! Don’t rock the boat boy and girls, we can sail into the Treasury benches if we paddle very quietly!
TRP then says that because he, TRP, cannot see any evidence of anyone throwing their hat is the ring then it is not happening. This stance suggests to me that TRP is a very well connected insider, possibly on the NZ Council or a similar lofty position.
The members do not come into TRP’s Wellington centred reckoning. However, they are telling their MPs the same thing they have been saying for the past eight months: the current leadership approach has not won the imagination of the membership, of the 800,000 that did not vote nor of the voting public. The membership is saying there must be a change.
We need a very wide change at the top, not merely the overdue retirement of King, Goff and Mallard to which TRP alludes. That change has to be in ATTITUDE towards reform as well as in personnel. The current attitude is damaging the party.
The serious concerns of the membership about the wider leadership’s approach to policy and to winning in 2014 drove the divisions at the Conference. The Conference was only the start of the reform process, not the end. The membership wants those reforms to be advanced, not snuffed. The membership see a robust leadership debate road-show as a critical part of this reform movement.
Khandalla Viper – I totally agree with your analysis. And especially about the oft-repeated mantra ” the 2014 election in in the bag, that it is Labour’s to lose”.
That is just what WILL happen if Labour does not change – both attitude, and the people at the top – Labour will lose yet again. And both our country and our people will suffer.
Come election year, the msm will turn against Shearer, Shon Key will “charm” the electorate again (and the electorate will fall for it !), the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014 and there might even be a larger number of non-voters, and the belief that National voters will somehow go to Labour because they don’t like Nat policies is misguided at best. National voters like being in power – and they never vote for Labour ! So they head for the polling booths en masse, and Labour voters stay at home. Its happened before, and it will happen again – if Labour does not change now.
“the 800,000-odd who didn’t vote in 2011 won’t vote in 2014”
That no party has stepped up to the plate to capture this vote bemuses me.
A huge opportunity wasted. If Craig can get the loony religious right to turn out, why not a party from the left aimed squarely at those disenfranchised from the system.
I had a plan, sent it to the Greens, twice, but heard nothing from them, though of course, I’m still willing to chat to Mr Servian in Hamilton West. 😉
And from the remainder who do vote, Labour could get 34%-35%, in an optimistic scenario. Certainly enough to hammer together a one term coalition of sorts, probably requiring NZ First. But climbing over 40%, to a result similar to what Labour achieved in both 2002 and 2005 is not a possibility that I have heard anyone even contemplating. Regardless of how many beers they have had.
As others have noted, this is a historical juncture for Labour.
Glad to see you back in formation, CV.
I’d be honoured to have you as my wingman any day Pete.
And you too, Richard Down South 😀
Great to see you back CV,
Now I can finally go back to my own name. Have a strong and battle ready New Year!
+ 1 Jenny
And + 1 Khandallaviper.
As a complete aside does anyone know where Charles Chauvel’s loyalties lie in regard to leadership?
From a comment to me on the Standard made by ‘i forget’ Chauvel ‘was’ in the Cunliffe camp but has not been demoted,
He performs well in the house and has the type of presence,(future leadership material), when on His feet speaking that has National Ministers cowering,
My view is that it isn’t important which particular faction the individual MP’s side with, more importantly is the willingness of the individual MP’s to vote to ‘trigger’ the party wide leadership February,
Should that occur, and i have my doubts, then whoever wins such a vote should be said to be the party’s choice and have the full backing of the party and it’s MP’s…
Cheers Bad12. That is interesting to note.
Hear what you’re saying regarding the relative lack of importance of the individual MPs’ factional loyalty. I agree.
The reason I’m interested is that I’m in the Ohariu electorate and have played with the idea of lending volunteer support in the next campaign. For that to happen David Shearer would need to be gone and CC would have to be one of the ones to see him off with a cheery wave.
I’m not a Labour party member and have almost completely lost faith in the party, while being increasingly Green and Mana. However, these are desparate times and you have to be practical so IF there were changes to the leadership and some solid and radical policy was announced I’d stand by them, as a voter and a practical supporter. It’s still a long and dreary wait till 2014 and much can change in that time so at this point I’m not holding my breath.
To my undying shame as a Party Member i trudged the miles stuffing letterboxes to aid the election of the Lange/Douglas fiasco,
There are still what seems a majority in the Labour Caucus who when the subject is broached nod sagely and intone with the utmost wisdom that what was inflicted upon the working class of New Zealand at the time ”had to happen”,
I stuck with Labour right up to the point where the Clark Government denied beneficiary dependent families the same tax credits as were given to the upper middle class,
I am now a Green Party Member and while my intentions this far out from 2014 are to vote Green i may be swayed by how close Mana can come to unseating Flavell, the Parliament could use the voice of Annette Sykes,
Should Sykes unseat Flavell the % of party votes should rise for Mana and if there was a chance of Mana gaining a third MP from the party vote they may well get mine,
Hope Metiria doesn’t read this or i am in trouble LOLZ, the above would of course depend upon the Green vote leading up to the 2014 election not only holding up but rising to at least bring one more Green MP into the house…
I must have missed the “cowering” part when I watch Parliament. Chauval is often set up for a laugh.
Have you never watched the likes of Housing Minister Heatley when under fire in the house,
He definitely cowers and looks to all extents and purposes like a small rodent looking for a hole in the floor to nip into…
yes but that is not down to the actions of chauvel..heatley was born cowering..
..and as a person who has done commentaries on questiontime for some years..
..like the rest of the front bench..chauvel has not particularly impressed..
..(the best performer in labour is cunnliffe..hands down..he makes national ministers nervous..and nails them with cold/hard intellect/logic..)
..there is of course humour to be had from watching genter from the greens vs brownlee..
..it is a mouse vs. elephant kinda conflict..
..and i noted in an end of year summary that the mouse seems able to make the elephant bellow in distress on cue/at will..
..and as others have said more eloquently..this is a crossroads for labour..
..and yes..i also fear the party leadership is just planning on that sleepwalk to victory..
..which if successful..but without the needed policy u-turns on fighting poverty etc..
..they will be worse than useless..
..and like a previous commenter i have gone from a life-long labour voter..to green..to mana..
..and that because harawira seems to be the only one advocating concrete-policy to end poverty etc..
..why is labour scared of coming up with strong policies..and arguing them now..?
..i agree..that in tweedle-dee/tweedledum decades/govts like we have recently had/endured..that policy had to be kept hidden until just before the election..(‘cos tweedle could nick from tweedle..)
..but i really don’t think national are going to steal a brace of policies aimed at ending poverty..eh..?
..so i think that historical reality/way of doing things can be safely put to one side..eh..?
..and really..for a toxic govt such as this one – doing all they are doing that so many hate..(83% opposed to asset-sales…)..
..for labour to be smug/complacent/positively spinning the fact they are stuck down where they are in the polls..
..is self-delusion of a grand nature..
phillip ure..
I see nothing in those opinion polls but embarrassment for the Labour party. There’s spin, and there’s damn spin.
Regardless of being an mmp nation, low thirties, after four years of dodgy government shit, isn’t a positive endorsement of anything.
Someone in caucus must have been taking notes watching Bill English run the local economy – Do nothing and hope it picks up when other countries start spending up large again. Labour’s only chance is to forget the ‘credible alternative’ tag and make the agenda their own. Will they? If they past four years are anything to go by (save for three weeks of Goff flying solo in the election campaign) Will they f*ck.
In my brutally honest opinion, Labour’s a goner. It’s not the only party on the left, and again in my opinion, certainly not the best party on the left by a long way.
Shearer won’t be challenged, by anyone, and he’ll go on to mumble and fluster his way through every tv/house appearance all the way to 2014.
The leader is not more important than the party some will say, and they’re completely wrong. It does and will transfer into lost votes. I won’t vote for DS GR TM or any of the fuck nuggets pulling strings behind the scene, so that’s one.
That’s 2
I think TRP is right that no one will challenge in February, and that Shearer will lead Labour into the next election. The Labour caucus have shown such a remarkable lack of brains and guts that any other outcome is highly unlikely.
Labour will lose in 2014 and National will be a three term Government. Shearer will do okay in the polls up until the election campaign starts – steady or even moderately increasing from present position. The Shearerites will crow and say they were right and everyone else was wrong.
When the public get a look at Shearer during the debates they will baulk at the prospect of electing a PM who can’t string a sentence together and run back to John Key and National in fright. They will be pissed off at Labour for putting up an unelectable leader right when they wanted to get rid of National.
Best we start planning for 2017.
TRP is right Blue. There will be no challenge in February. I said so on yesterday’s O.M. He is also technically right that it isn’t so much a challenge as a ‘motion of confidence in the current leader.’ Shearer will get it, and it will be unanimous.
I think it’s a bit unfair to charge the Labour caucus with a lack of brains and guts. Setting aside the duped ABC Club acolytes, it’s not a lack of guts etc. It’s politics and commonsense. There was a coup alright… against Cunliffe. With the help of the MSM the coup organisers won. If Cunliffe and his supporters were to retaliate now they would be cutting their own throats.
I don’t agree that it’s all over for Cunliffe. He’s a relatively young man. He can afford to wait another few years – 5 years if necessary.
Anne you may well be right about this, supposing that nothing arises in the meantime to change the political landscape. However, the questions that have arisen in the past year or so will not, as Robert Winter puts it, “be patronised away.” http://robertwinter.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/labour-in-new-year.html
I have come to suspect that Shearer’s elevation, the handing out of rank with limited authority to various MPs, and the ABC concept itself are the result of deal-making of the “no Brash no cash” kind. To me, the speed with which the caucus raced to head Cunliffe off at the pass had all the hallmarks of a panicked group protecting a done deal. Furthermore, the defence that “Labour must appeal to the middle class” handily reduces the concept of middle class to those who think their interests coincide with corporate interests. No one seems willing to acknowledge that many of the angry commentators on the Standard, etc, are in fact middle class.
If the Shearer clique continue to protect him from the party’s judgement, then his legitimacy as a leader remains compromised. The deal or deals that got him there (supposing I am right) seem make opposing demands on him to those of the membership, who for the most part want a centre left Labour Party. They will not be appeased by ambiguity and empty flattery. So, OK, Shearer might survive a motion of confidence, but that does not mean that his problems are over.
Well said Olwyn.
It’s true. My hypothesis does rely on nothing arising in the meantime….
In the meantime, how Shearer rises to the reshuffle challenge will, in my view, give us some of the answers we are seeking in terms of his leadership and how genuine is his desire to reunite the caucus and a large section of the membership. He can only do it if he:
1) re-instates Cunliffe to the front bench with his previous portfolios.
2) promotes talent such as those shown by Charles Chauval, Sue Moroney (and others) who were effectively demoted 12 months ago because they supported David Cunliffe.
That is the absolute minimum in my book.
I wholeheartedly agree Anne, with the added caveat that these people are not just promoted, but given real authority over their areas of expertise, and not just empty rank with strings attached.
+1.
No more gagging and silly games like the one played on Cunliffe late last year. I refer to his… arriving at the meeting of the West Auckland Licensing Trust (I think it’s called that) to find David Parker had been sent in his place. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I saw it as an attempt by the ABC gang to further humiliate Cunliffe.
I suspect there are more malicious tricks that have not been made public – attempts to provoke him into lashing out a la Carter, so they can get rid of him once and for all. Which is why I think that deal-making must lie behind it – either that or the ABC group have a genuine crank among their number. I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
Not according to the almost uniformly hostile coverage of him in the media. I keep hearing and reading that Cunliffe is “not liked” by his colleagues. I’ve never heard or seen any “journalist” ever provide an example of what Cunliffe has done to incur this alleged opprobrium, however.
I mean, Cunliffe is very much liked in his electorate, and is surely not that hard to get on with!
He is indeed, and not only in his electorate. He is highly regarded by a lot of people. And there-in I suspect lies much of the problem. Some of his caucus colleagues are jealous. Put it to them, and they would laugh out loud and exclaim… what a lot of nonsense. But imho, that is the core of the problem. It has been amply demonstrated that jealousy can cause some people to lose their marbles…
Oh and btw… we know there was deal making 12 months ago at the time of the contest. That’s why Parker pulled out of the race. He was promised the shadow Finance portfolio if he did so. What’s the bet he has also been promised the role of Finance Minister when they become the government. I don’t doubt his credentials for the job, but underhand deals and being a part of attempts to smear and discredit a perceived rival should not be prerequisites for premium ministerial positions.
I am a member of David Cunliffe’s LEC.
David is adored by his LEC. Over the past 11 years I have watched him build it into a large, ethnically diversified, well-managed team.
If Cunliffe switches parties, I predict the entire LEC will switch with him. If he drops out of politics, I predict his LEC will virtually disappear.
If that happens, New Lynn will go National. New Lynn is NOT a safe Labour seat. We work damn hard to get the numbers for David. Compare the significantly higher vote tallies for David than for the Labour party vote.
If there is no open leadership contest in February, I will join the Greens but return to help Cunliffe’s electorate campaign in 2014.
He is far and away the most intelligent and creative MP in NZ today.
The only way his opponents have been able to counter him is with character assassination. That should tell you a lot about him and them.
Tall Poppy Syndrome.
Tall poppy syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term primarily used in the UK, Canada, New Zealand and other Anglosphere nations to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
Max. Respect to you and to your LEC. Salam alaykum السلام عليكم
Salam alaykum, to you to habibi.
And an apology from David Shearer to ALL voters for his bullshit way of treating Cunliffe and others, all on the back of a Gower story hunt. So when ever I see a Gower story on TV3 website I always ask how a Snot nosed schoolboy can get a job like that.
I found TRP’s comments pretty odd as well. There needs to be a real distinction between leadership and policy; one is not a substitute for the other. Leadership is what makes policy real, even in Opposition.
For me the current leadership did a great job with the housing speech, but that’s one hit on a year of nothing. And indeed since the conference in November, pretty much radio silence.
Just astonishing at the lack of activity around the asset sales petition last week – indeed an unconvincing performance by Chippie that really did not carry beyond one news day. Anyone else stepped into that space?
And of course the holiday season is fantastic downtime where everyone is reading and wants to engage about stuff other than work. So where were the think pieces from Spokespeople in the newspapers? At our place we had well placed sources doing stuff for our industry right the way through. Newspapers are begging for content at this time, as are TV.
I know what leadership would feel like – and right now it’s just a hollow space. Holidays are not an excuse. They are a time to attack. Where’s the attack? Does Shearer have a date for this next massive speech, or is he going to wait for Parliament to resume?
Shearer has squandered a ripe leadership moment. I want my leadership vote. Give me my vote.
Cheers, y’all.
Kman: The election is Labour/Greens to lose. National are tired, running out of ideas, energy and, importantly, support parties inside Parliament. ACT and the Maori Party look stuffed, Dunne may just hang on, but that won’t be enough to keep the Nats in power. Key’s only hope is Winston, which looks like less of an option these days.
Jenny Kirk: ‘Time for a change’ will be a factor, for sure. National will need to do better than they did at the last election to win because of the collapse of the MP and ACT. That improvement seems unlikely going into a third election.
The Al1en: There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana. Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy … the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.
Blue: thanks, you seem to get where I’m coming from, even if you are pessimistic about the election.
Coronial Typer: you sound like you need a holiday yourself. Like it or not, parliament is on a break, there won’t be much political news for a few weeks yet. Which is fine by me, because MP’s are workers too and earn their breaks. (yes, I know, I snorted myself writing that sentence, but honestly, MP is such a shitty, all consuming and public job, most MP’s piss off overseas where noone knows them to get a real break).
“There is already a party like that. It’s called Mana.”
Not really. That’s a big assumption that those 800,000 identify with Hone’s agenda, just because they’re, for whatever reason out of the loop.
I’m not personally convinced mana represents outside it’s core constituents, which is of course their right to do so. There’s certainly room for another left party. Certainly room for an extra 5% that doesn’t come with winston, and certainly a cup of tea for our side to negate the one in Epsom.
I bet a new left party would consistently outpoll act, the conservatives and dare I say mana.
“Nice to hear you’re on good terms with Mark Servian. He’s a great guy”
I wouldn’t know. The point was I didn’t get a reply, much to my bemusement.
“the Golden Gordon of kiwi politics.”
No idea what that means, I’ll have to google, but I’m sure there’s plenty Golden Gordens.
You may have to expand, or not.
Golden Gordon was a legendary footballer in the comedy series Ripping Yarns. Specifically an episode about the hopeless Barnstoneworth United. Since the series came out, BUFC’s have popped up all around the world, including in Hamilton’s sunday league. It was my privilege to make up the numbers in that team a decade or two back, alongside the good Mr Servian.
Makes a better reference than kitchen nightmare Gordon I though of.
He still didn’t answer my mail though, so room for improvement on the left wing. 😉
Why don’t you just go back to Shearer and co, and tell em we don’t believe you. So now you can get your well done pat on the head.
If Shearer is the leader at the next election (it may not be in November 2014) then Labour are gonners and the 800,000 non-voters will pale by comparison. Yesterday I looked at the Labour Party website for policy statements; couldn’t find one. Labour had the best policies at the last election but still lost; how is it going to be different next time? Labour need a strong, articulate, caring and capable leader with the best interests of the majority of NZer’s at heart….. David Shearer is not the one.
The caucus is a mess. All down to the ABCer’s. Don’t they care?
A couple of days ago I asked (if by some miracle) David Cunliffe was elected leader what would he do about the ABCer’s. I haven’t had an answer yet. Looks like the LEC’s have some urgent work to do.
No wonder John Key is laughing all over his face.
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies its better to be be vague until 6 months from the election the best thing the left can do is highlight govts failures and mistakes at this stage!
3 left wing policies that the National Party cannot steal
1) 50,000 social housing units built by a renewed Ministry of Public Works, provided on both long and short term leases at 25% of household income, or alternatively sold to those on lower incomes via 1% pa no deposit interest rate mortgages.
2) 10,000 new trade apprenticeships for youth unemployed…working on building the socialised housing above.
3) Rationalisation of the NZ banking sector ensuring KiwiBank plays a far bigger role, including holding tens of thousands of new social housing mortgages on behalf of the government.
I’ll guarantee you that National could not steal the above policies. HOWEVER if you release CENTRIST MIDDLE OF THE ROAD POLICIES then yes, National will steal them.
Of course, the other reason you might not want to release policy yet is if you don’t have any ready to go.
+1
Waiting to release policy worked so well last election.
my thought exactly.
time to dismount?
labour have to be very careful in releasing policy because a good right wing govt will steel those policies
And if they’re good policies, and Labour actually lets people know that they’re Labour policies, then Labour makes a huge song and dance every single time about it.
Here’s the key messages, thought up in about two minutes off the top of my head:
“We’re happy to see the National government taking up Labour policies.”
“Clearly this government has run out of ideas, but that’s okay, because this is a good Labour policy.”
“The Government has done the right thing by realising their policies haven’t helped New Zealand at all, and that Labour policies will get us out of the hole they’ve dug in the economy.”
“We’re happy we can help steer New Zealand in the right direction by providing good, productive, sensible policies which the Government wants to steal.”
Yep. it’s walk in the park stuff.
And that has worked really well for us eh?
Time to get serious; no more wishful thinking.
The thought of Shearer as PM is depressing to me. So far I’ve not seen anything about him that appeals: not his public performances, not his political positioning (or lack of any real commitment to truly left wing policies), not his personality – nada.
However, I’m really not certain who there is that would make a good LP caucus leader. Cunliffe certainly needs to be in the front-tow team, but he may or may not make a good leader.
In the face of this, the only way forward at this stage, is for me to put more effort in supporting the Greens/Mana, and in supporting whatever the NZLP members come up with. With more democratic tools, it’s only the membership that can shift the NZLP in a positive direction, IMO. And that also means focusing on promoting policies and directions that are soundly those of the left and wider labour movement.
Need to find new talent? Must be time to promote a few more people from being Labour staffers to being Labour MPs.
But surely Cunliffe is a BETTER option than Shearer. With Shearer there is no way Labour will win; our only chance, irrespective of policy, is with Cunliffe…. there is no other option that I can see.
Yes, I would prefer Cunliffe. Don’t know how he will go in leading caucus, and if he will be able to unite them, though. Shearer is a non-starter, IMO.
ABCer’s……. the OTHER elephant in the room!
Simple they fall into line or they are OUT! And they can take that nasty little red headed school boy with them.
OMG we’re all at it again. Now where did I put those darkened curtains…
Because this issue needs resolving….. the ABCer’s may think it has, but they clearly can’t see the elephant in the room.
KhandallaViper.
Just noting that TRP is very consistent; last year he said that as long as Labour’s polling stayed good, Shearer was “home and hosed” as Labour Leader and that we should all get used to it.
PM Shearer is a distinct possibility in 2014. For what it’s worth.
Cheers, CV. And welcome back, comrade.
😉
But Shearer’s possibility, on previous form, is reliant on a nat fall over and certainly not from what I’ve seen, the inclusive politics he spoke about in the race to succeed Goff.
A win by default is still a win, but not really what I want from a party chasing my vote, or the sort of ambitious, aspirational government I’m looking for in exchange for it.
Gut feeling about 2014, still very much key’s to lose.
Yep. It’s the classic “don’t rock the boat” sleepwalk to victory. Which I also abhor.
Currently, our entire country (world?) is sleepwalking off a resource depletion and climate change cliff. Hands-off market led neoliberal style bullshit got us here and is not going to cut it.
Jeeez bad day for mixed metaphors.
Metaphor cocktails for everyone, on the house. 🙂
It’s a weakness and along with abhor, something that should be resisted.
The people need a leader they can follow. It’s a dire prognosis all around if we don’t find one, nationally and abroad. cometh the time etc..
It’s not coming from NZP, so where? Is maybe the more urgent question needed to be addressed.
NZLP
some fruits of sharing
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/426820_364157637016199_1266498282_n.jpg
Oh yes they have been consistent They have NOT polled above 33.5% since 2008. And this is good why?? SO Shearer may lead them to the next train wreck/election. As I said before it’s all about trust. And the only thing we can trust Shearer to do, is protect his pay packet!
Labour on 33.5% is a perfectly respectable polling number. For the first half of National’s first term honeymoon.
I know that CV But with all the screw ups the NACTS have had last year, anyone with half a brain would have made hay at their expense. But what did we hear from Shearer and co the deafening sound of Silence, as usual! And with all the screw ups then Labour should have been about 40+ not stagnant at 32.5.
The Nats are preparing to torpedo Shearer in four streams.
a)They will get tame journos to ask “off piste” questions to try to embarrass him.
b) Key will push for heaps of face to face opps to try to embarrass him.
c) The Nats have background and context to his “Kiwi of the Year” nomination.
d) The management style and tactics deployed in the UN job will be compared to the Labour job.
The Nats are determine not to give 2014 away without a fight and they will fight as dirty as it takes. They believe they can win because Winston’s price is known.
They vuew the current labour leadership as its Achilles heel.
Welcome back, o original and much revered VIPER.
Did Clare Curran apologise?
Have you served sufficient time in purgatory?
At your service, KV. Did I mention that it was the comment of yours saying that CC had me as her first target which made me realise that the temperature was climbing higher than I expected and that action was required? Thanks for that.
Curran apologise? **guffaw** That’ll be a democratic socialist day in caucus. Regardless, I don’t require any apology from her.
As for pugatory mate, I had a good stay, better than that I made good friends with a few leviathans while I was away 😈
Last week the Syrian Government announced it had captured the brother of assassinated Al Qaeda leader al Zawahiri (who if we have to believe the US has been killed several times over the last few years). No Western MSM wanted to run with it.
Mohamed al-Zawahiri was captured on what the rebels and the MSM are calling a humanitarian mission!
What gets me is that we have invaded Afghanistan on what we were told was to eliminate the worlds most dangerous terrorist organization. We invaded Iraq and killed a million people to catch these bastards and now the leader is doing humanitarian work?
This is how stupid they think we are!
That a good one, He who was captured is just as likely to be in the employ of either the UN or the US via the Saudi Government,
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war,
Priorities tho have now changed, Syria being the new target of US sponsored destabilization calls for new strategies and assets of Arab extraction are of premium value in turning Syria into a failure of a State to match those of Afghanistan and Iraq,
Next stop for the road show of course is Iran, all that oil yummy…
Yep!
Bad12, from what I can make out the west is panicking. there are no real good options. the chances of Zawahiri being in the pay of the Sauds, let alone the west, are remote. He considers the sauds to be apostate.
The west at the moment is most concerned about assads weapons falling into the hands of the rebels, and who may get their hands on them after that. If the west sends in troops, that’s what they will doing, isolating and destroying as much of assad’s stockpile as they can.
the Russians are moving ships, and marines into the area, probably to be a counter force (ripwire) against escalation, and to protect a pocket for Allawites to flee to. Also, to cover the withdrawal of Russian ‘civilians’.
That’s highly amusing, i always enjoy someone who parrots the news gathered from the MSM as if it were the Gospel,
Lets see now,Zawahiri thinks the Saudi’s are apostate but happily worked alongside Bin Laden, whose family is Saud and part of the ruling class as well as personal friends of the Bush family,
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before,
What the US in particular is most concerned about at the moment is the destabilization of the Arab country’s with strong leadership who do not align themselves with the US,
The strategy is to smash these country’s back to the stone-age in terms of intercine tribal and religious sects battling for power, the US can then deal favorably in terms of arms and support with the faction that has control of the oil production,
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
Don’t forget the tens of billions in reconstruction contracts for western corporations coming in to rebuild infrastructure smashed by western laser guided bombs a la Libya. It’s a great deal: one $50K bomb can create $20M in reconstruction contracts. Excellent return on investment.
I’m glad you find it amusing, but it’s ironic that the amusement is based on so much ignorance.
Yes, Bin laden is (or rather was) a Saud. But his citizenship was revoked at around the time he declared jihad on the regime. This happened a long time ago. You can find his declaration of war on the Sauds in plenty of places.
If you read it, and only that, you’ll find it useful to understanding these guys. You’d be better to read “The Looming Tower” which is very thorough.
The main thing, I guess, is to understand what AQ, Islamic Jihad and related theorists mean by “the near enemy”, and “the far enemy”.
And it’s not accurate to claim that AQ was funded by the CIA. AQ was set up to act as an alternative for jihadis. Bin laden felt that western funding of jihad was counterproductive, that it would co-opt any jihad and prevent sharia being implemented. that’s why he set up “the base” and sought funding from wealthy salafists. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, he offered to use this ‘base’ of supporters and jihadis to wage jihad. The Saud regime turned him down.
none of this stuff is secret, or propaganda, it’s history.
I was going to leave this, but given your demands in another thread that people debate in a manner fitting for this site, or whatever horseshit it is you are saying, I’ll give it a few minutes more, for your amusement.
Are you suggesting that the group Bin Laden lead while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan was not funded by US cash funneled from the US via various ‘foundations’ and think-tanks’,
Yep. I’m saying that. There is little to no credible evidence that the US funded AQ, and nothing at all that is conlcusive. The so called ‘Arab afghans’ were few in number (under 10,000) and pretty much kept to themselves. They were funded by Arabs, including OBL. OBL, late in the war, set up AQ as a database of arab mujaheddin to be used in fighting the ‘near enemy’ That’s why it translates as ‘the base’ and it’s why in those grainy ‘training videos’ you see them doing guerilla warfare training rather than terrorist training.
Those who claim AQ was funded and or created by the CIA or the US, tend to be ignorant about the war and the philosophies of those involved. They assume that because the CIA was providing funds and weapons to mujaheddin that this included AQ. It’s lazy and ignorant,, but suits their purpose.
Even more amusing, is the supposed fear of ‘weapons of mass destruction’, now where have we heard that little tale before
All sorts of places. the most relevant would be Iraq after the first gulf war. The regime admits it has them, the rest of the world’s intelligence agencies agree. Are you saying they do not? based on what? A logical fallacy along the lines of ‘Bush claimed Saddam had wmd in 2003 but he didn’t, therefore all such claims are false” perhaps? (And I’ll just note in passing here that I never mentioned WMD, the concern around that is real of course, but the missile stocks and other conventional weaponry is just as troubling).
Surely you could not be that stupid. So please. if you doubt he has chemical weapons, outline the reasons for that doubt in the face of the evidence that he does have them.
Bin Laden and any group He headed are essentially mercenaries, they may hate the West and the ruling class of the various Arab potentates, but, are still guns for hire as are a large number of other Arab staffed groups currently aiding in the destruction of the State of Syria,
Citation very much required, because that is hilarious. If one reads the histories of AQ and Blackwater, one is struck by the similarit.., nah, that’s just fucking daft.
Feel free tho to allow the mainstream media to tell you what to think of the current situation as it is at the least amusing to examine your belief system which does not seem to have been altered by the events in either Iraq or Afghanistan…
So come on, tell me about my belief system and how it related to those wars, and how it didn’t change.
And then, tell me where you get your information from, if not from the media. Because at the moment it looks like you reject something if it is said in the media, as long as it doesn’t conform to your preconceived notions about how things ‘really are’.
Reposted from bad12’s attempt at a reply here:
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09012013/comment-page-1/#comment-571037
It’s all pretty weak, and anticipated in my comment.
You’ve ignored most of what I said, and have, as predicted, conflated mujaheddin with AQ.
Here’s your initial; claim:
You have to get with the real picture, prior to September 11 Al Qaeda were US funded and armed assets during the Soviet/Afghan war
Operation cyclone was about supporting the mujaheddin, and there is no conclusive evidence that OBL was funded. The implication that he was directly funded by the US is even harder to substantiate, which is probably why you are having such a hard time coming up with any good direct sources or quotes.
I’ll repost this in the relevant thread and hopefully we’ll see something substantive.
I really want to hear about my belief system and the evidence for doubt about Assad’s weaponry
“intent of Russian landing ships to discourage West from placing special forces on the ground”
-Kakariki
Where is anyone in the western MSM calling it a humanitarian mission ( as opposed to reporting that it is being called that by the syrian rebels)? (Your link is 404d and I can’t find it).
Here is a copy of the guys peace proposal from back in september:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/09/14/suggestion_for_mediation_between_the_islamic_movements_and_the_west?page=0,1
(Hope that link works, you might need to register to FP to see it, which is free to do and well worth while, even if just to see what FP pros are saying).
There is nothing too surprising in it. Mohamed al-Zawahiri is a founding member of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and his ‘peace proposal’ reflects that. ‘Sharia law = peace’ pretty much.
Here’s the link cache and Mohammed al-Zawahiri rebuffing reports of his arrest in Syria.
Thanks.
Eve: not seeing any justification for your claim that the ‘MSM’ are calling it a humanitarian mission. That piece, and it looks to be the one you linked to, outlines the links between violent Islamic extremists and the rebels in some detail.
Reality diverging from something Ev said? This comes as a surprise to you?
No you are right. The “rebels” are telling us he was there on a humanitarian mission. And the article is faithfully repeating that. While claiming that Assad will no doubt try to make the most of the capture of this friendly old man who was according to the “rebels” only trying to broker deals so aid could get through and daffodils could grow in peace.
That would be the same rebels who force children to decapitate unarmed prisoners, <a href="chop Christians up and feed them to the dogs, Force children to dig their own graves and captives to do suicide missions to save their families just to name a few of the “liberators” humanitarian actions!
Oh, and chant allegiance to Osama bin Laden whom you still believe send 19 young Muslims to the US to break Newtons laws of Physics!
I’m confused as to what your complaint is.
The article reports some facts.
– The regime claims about the capture
– The rebel’s response to those claims
– Some background on some of the rebel groups.
What’s the actual problem?
Which claims do you dispute?
You stated that the MSM had never suggested that al Zawahiri had been on a humanitarian mission. I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
In fact they suggested that Assad would do just that, implying that just because Zawahiri was in Syria talking with “rebels” and with his violent al Qaeda background this did not mean he was there for nefarious reasons and that Assad would just use his capture for propaganda reasons.
Other than that your comment is disingenuous as you were the one “complaining” that the MSM had not in fact claimed themselves that Z was in Syria for Humanitarian reasons. I like it when you do that because while I know you won’t go to any of the link I give there are many who do which helps spreading information which might allow people to make up their mind in different ways than the Propaganda machine would like
I put it to you that by omitting his connection with extremely unpleasant CIA financed “rebels” and these “rebels” claiming that Zawahiri was only in Syria because of humanitarian reasons the did not dispel the notion that under the circumstances it would have been extremely unlikely that he was there because he wanted to be nice.
Well, let’s see what the ‘MSM’ said after reporting the conflicting claims about what the claimed presence of Zawahiri means:
They detail the reported presence of various AQ related people and groups within Syria, if anything, that supports the regimes claims, does it not? Are they denying, or downplaying the links to AQ?
What would rather they do:
1) Censor the claims by the rebels and just report the regimes claims?
Or
2)report the claims of all sides, and the known links, and allow readers to exercise their judgement about the claims made?
PB, are you really trying to use logic on a ticking fruitcake? Well good look and I applaud your optimism, but keep that up and we might be questioning your sanity too.
Labour is at a critical point in its life cycle. If it doesn’t make changes soon it will continue to slowly slide backwards in the poles. The main winner will be the Greens. The other winner will be National as the swing voters will chose to stay with them.
I have been a member of the Labour Party for a mere 18 months, and its been a real let down the way MP’s treat members… “amateur” is the word that comes to mind. The Caucus need a real shake up otherwise long term Labour support is going to continue to decline. But then you get the impression that many in the caucus don’t really care about the Party in the long term!
(ps: I have always had the impression that TRP has a contact in the ABC club.)
+1
National’s friends are wanting the Commerce Commission to be gutted because it is attempting to reduce Chorus charges.
According to an earnest sounding Simon Botherway on Radio New Zealand the surge in the share market experienced last year is threatened because investors will be afraid that the Commission “has become an activist body for consumers and forgotten about the risk that investors take with their money.” Obviously the return to investors should be the only concern of the Government body.
He makes no comment about whether or not Chorus’s charges were justified. Perhaps he thought this to be irrelevant.
This typifies the attitude of the wealthy and was an underlying cause of the global financial crisis. Returns to investors are never enough and any entity which stands in the way must be weakened.
We have still got a long way to go before New Zealand’s utilities quake before regulators. It’s the usual drill:
(A) Ask the (insert major industry) for advice on how to regulate, to which they reply it’s too hard, truly, and should be best left to self-regulation. Under National this usually works, but often works under Labour as well.
(B) When the self-regulation idea fails, the (insert major industry) sets itself up as the collective wisdom in this terrifyingly complex field and provides all the research for the government Department drafting the regulations. And then poach their staff.
(C) When the limits of this – and all the stalling entailed within it – are reached, the (insert major industry) seeks “peer review” from “international best practise” which a thin little country like this couldn’t know, and all the major consultants in the world for (insert major industry) know that the government job will be a one-off, but the industry will be around for ever buttering their bread.
(D) After several years, and a change of government, which (insert relevant industry) 3rd party funded up the wazoo to get in, the Board of the regulator is formed after all manner of golf games have been played
(E) The regulations are finally enacted, which are so complicated because of the size and power and national importance of the (insert major industry) that only a real dork of a lawyer couldn’t find a loophole, and finally
(F) By the time everyone’s filed and counter-filed and appealed to all relevant layers, there’s been no regulation for well over a decade. Or another fresh government has decided the whole thing just wasn’t worthwhile so we all just have to start again with a different kind of regulatory system, new legislation, and a restructure of the regualtors themselves.
This is practise we are seeing now, as with the massive utility price case we see down at the Wellington High Court which has been going on for several years now and will be appealed for several more.
Or you could do what the last Labour leader with any balls did with a major utility: cut their head off. Poor old Telecom. They hadn’t realised that David Cunliffe had ensured that the Cabinet SubCommittee had been fully delegated to make the decision to cleave them in half, rather than needing the next full Cabinet meeting.
That was not only policy in action, that was Leadership. That’s what it feels like.
+1 an interesting analysis would be the amount in each utility bill that goes to lawyers, auditors, staff and management overhead required to deal with compliance issues including base regulation, comm comm tiffs etc, so in effect the whole shooting match that’s grown since these were all gov’t departments.
Some are nonsense and must be challenged as the regulators often go ‘how about this, that should give us all something to do…’ and some are essential to prevent profiteering. Problem is the big money isn’t spent by the rule makers it’s the Utilities who invest big to ensure they stay one step ahead, all at the consumers cost.
DC showed how it’s done with TCom and they showed arrogance and contempt for the open market. IMO it effectively set a standard the cowering caucus know they’ll not measure up to.
I miss the box on the voting form to re-nationalise industries, that would be an interesting result.
The only thing that needs to be done with utilities is that they should be brought back into government ownership as a state monopoly. It’s the only way to get lower costs and it does that by getting rid of the mass duplication of competition.
hmmm
Hey IrishBill you issued a major policy challenge on the weekend. Big call for the authors here, and the editors.
When are you going to start turning that into a project – something beyond the usual wishlists and fantasies and theoretical catastrophies I see here usually?
Another great Charter School story!
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/03/chicago-charter-schools-rake-in-thousands-in-disciplinary-fees/
Lots more here TP.
http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.co.nz/
Standardistas to the barricades!
Over at the National Business Review there is a lively comments section underneath their printing of Brian Edwards’ now infamous paean for “Sir” Paul Holmes.
What makes it more interesting than usual is that one of the commenters is one David Walden, a puffy advertising man who, together with Murray Deaker, ran the idiotic Black Heart campaign in 2003, which had to be closed down after a series of incidents, including restaurateurs refusing to serve the Alinghi crew, and some supporters physically threatening the Alinghi crew members’ families.
With not even the slightest sense of irony, Walden has posted the following gem: “God I hate the small minds in this country who take a swipe at anyone who has the balls to put their head above the parapet, have a go , and succeed. Get a life!”
Why don’t YOU comment? It’s easy and you’ll get straight through….
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/paul-holmes-–-starry-starry-knight-ck-134310#comment-600818
Back at work again. The DIY “holiday” is now behind me. No more cables to hide, washing lines to install, doors and windows to fix, toilets to stop dribbling, computers to change hard drives with SSD’s, etc etc.
I got a lot less done than I wanted on The Standard.
damn. I just looked at the article and comments and got all tired.
C’mon, McFliper, you c’n do it! Best strategy, seeing as you’ve already read the offending article, is to skip the mediocre thing and go straight to the comments.
it’s a week old already.
You obviously are immune to the very real pleasures to be had in flogging a dead horse.
Yep. I prefer to let them rot, if they’re well out of my way. It’s only when I’m in danger of stepping in one that I feel compelled to manhandle it out of the way.
Shearer shows he means it – by Mike Smith – December 21, 2011
Quoted below in full, without further comment.
http://thestandard.org.nz/shearer-shows-he-means-it/
Hi CV
“Gone is the ritual opening denunciation of the government’s programme”
yeah, cos they probably intend to do much the same if they ever get into power.
“He understands what New Zealanders expect of their MPs.”
Is this a statement of fact? I guess if it is said enough times some people will start to believe it.
Far be it for anyone to point out that being positive and looking forward might be just as legitimate a political tactic as doing nothing but criticising and whinging from the sidelines like a tool.
I’m not doing nothing. I’m questioning these above statements.
When an opposition party remains as quiet as Labour have this year over the vast array of issues occurring, you can be assured that a large number of potential voters will assume what I have in the above comment. Crying and complaining about that being stated as much as you like, however it won’t change the veracity of it.
It goes like this: “Why bother voting? The two main parties are much of a muchness”
Sound familiar?
Many voters not voting is o.k for whoever gets in, they still get the baubles of office. This is not-so good for the general welfare of the country however. Is this type of moral hazard going on in our main opposition party?
You are welcome to be positive. At present I see no real reason for that with regard to Labour’s recent behaviour.
Any business would know that complaints are an opportunity for improvement. Far better than people having a negative thoughts/experiences and keeping quiet. Word of mouth is the most effective advertising. But of course, McFliper, you know that, that is probably why you wrote your comment. Here’s a thought: instead of complaining about well-founded comments, how about complaining to the Labour caucus that their message ain’t strong enough? That way we will both be happy.
yeah sorry, I wasn’t actually meaning anybody here when I wrote it, and that’s the truth. Sorry I didn’t express myself properly. Possibly linked to the wrong comment, too.
Indeed, part of my opposition to the seemingly incessant anti-shearer stuff some commenters put forward here is expressly because this forum is not just an echo-chamber. And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness”.
But I think that putting positives forward rather than attacking directly is a legitimate tactic in this case:
a) key and nact will not rise to it. They don’t give a shit, and will lie without a flicker of doubt. This lessens the effectiveness;
b) Mana/Greens/NZ1 are attacking, and even some good work by labour front benches (Ardern has been very active in areas of my interest). Rather than overload the opposition with negativity, I think the leader (whomever it be) should provide vision (in a positive comparison to when Key lays down the credibility of his ministers to save himself);
c) Labour did the attack thing all through the last term, to little avail. Time for a reconsider, is my guess.
Yes, complaints are an opportunity for improvement. But sometimes the squeakiest wheel is not needed, at which point it behoves one to consider the cost/benefit of just letting it seize up or fall off rather than feeding it more grease.
ps sorry about the handle change – form autofill on another machine 🙂
Ah that’s a relief, I thought I was heading for another “be positive; no I won’t” type conversation. There have been enough of them!
Yes it is good to list the positives I agree with most of the list apart from c), which I don’t think amounted to much compared with the other parties. I really do have a real worry about what type of government Labour are planning to create next time they are in power and this concern largely comes from the weakness surrounding their attacks on this current “government” (well that’s what is is commonly called, anyway…more closely resembling a circus if you asked me…).
I usually get rather annoyed with people saying that Nat and Labour are much of a muchness, there is a distinct difference when each party is in power (for those on the extreme ends of poverty/wealth anyway). My comment was really trying to illustrate what I believe is a general impression created by a lackadaisical opposition style…didn’t Labour have an approach of cooperation with the last term’s Government in order to come across as “fair and reasonable”? What effect did that have on the voter turn-out? Just sharing my train of thought here, not hard and fast conclusions, however they are getting that way….
That is an interesting comment re letting the squeaky wheel seize up…that is a good point.
The trouble with the 2011 campaign is that it can be made to say nothing of note.
People who want to point out Labour being reasonable as a cause of their turnout, can.
People who want to say Labour was “too left” in the campaign by going back to its roots and scaring off voters, can.
People who want to say labour was “too negative”, can.
It’s like 2014: if the next two years are like 2012, then Labour’s low vote will be blamed on Shearer by Cunliffe supporters, and blamed on negative-nellies by Shearer supporters (or those who are happy for any change from National and hope that the minor parties rather than Labour will drive the major policy shifts).
There’s also an instinctive bias that what we recall of Labour 2008-11 is what others recall. My personal impression is that Labour left the policy push too late, and that prior to that they still had the tired look from the 2008 defeat.
I think that if Labour bounce around policy ideas this year (and yes have an open leadership vote if Cunliffe or anyone wants to run), they can have a bit more “oomph” in 2014 than 08/11.
..which kinda leads to a question I have been pondering recently. Are the Labour Party doing any market research on their strengths and weaknesses, as in, doing some sort of information gathering on what might have been the cause of their poor results last election? Or low voter turnout?
I realize this type of research would never be entirely accurate, however it would be good to know that some sort of feedback loop was being conducted; trends could probably be discovered.
I get the impression this is not occurring.
lol
cf: comments here, here, here,and here. Some people disagree with your impression, and indeed think it’s occurring too much 🙂
Talk to the membership.
NO NEED FOR MARKET RESEARCH. That is what is f#c@ing us.
We are a political party. The values, issues, concerns, worries, ambitions and the family, community, business activities of our members is our information database.
That is why we changed our constitution, so that the input of the members will have more influence on the Caucus.
Our MPs, NZ Council reps, Policy and Sectoral people are connected to most facets of society and the economy. (Perhaps a few in the “Beltway” of Wellington are not!)
Most of the frustration expressed in these pages in the past year have been a cry for the Caucus to listen to the MEMBERS.
and there 🙂
hmm yes…I see what you mean McFlock re KV’s response (heh), however the links you provided appeared to be talking about focus groups for policies. I was more talking about perceptions and finding peoples’ reasons for the non-vote…I think there would be important information to be had out of such research. In fact I have already commented on what I figure might be one cause.
Khandalla Viper (&McFlock) I believe I am referring to something different than what you are talking about. The end result of what you promote in your comment and what I am referring to may achieve the same thing; more connection with the voters.
Lets not be forgetting that a lot (if not most) voters are not reading up on policies at election-time*; there is something else that they are basing their vote on.
*I admit this is an assumption, yet one I am prepared to risk making.
It is my perception that Labour have been really flailing around, kind of stabbing in the dark, as to their general approach, for years. Policies are very important (obviously), however strategy is too. I believe Nat is popular solely due to strategy, not policies. Isn’t the Asset Sales policy a case in point? Knowing what is turning voters off is pretty important information, and when it comes to elections I suspect (sadly) that policy is a very small part of what makes a Party popular.
“And I fundamentally disagree that nact and lab are “much of a muchness””
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my version of that complaint is that Labour has, in effect, become part of the mechanism of shutting out opposition to the assumptions of neoliberalism, or whatever you wish to call it.
It’s like the ‘good cop’ to National’s ‘bad cop’ – but the overall effect is the same; to get the electorate to submit to the ‘inevitability’ of a deregulated, market-based, ‘non-political’ means of making collective determinations about our future as a society.
To the extent that Labour continues to cleave to the economic individualism rationale for solving social issues (e.g., housing crises) it remains a non-left party by any substantive definition of what the term ‘left’ means.
Only through proudly advocating collective, political means to solve social issues could it correctly be called a left-wing party. Remember that even Douglas claimed that he wanted the same ‘ends’ as Labour had always wanted – he was just implementing different ‘means’.
The means are actually what distinguish ‘left’ and ‘right’ because the means are the ends – it’s all about different ways to run a society, after all.
It is in that sense that I think the current Labour caucus is part of the same ‘symphony’ and acts (no doubt unwittingly) in concert with National – albeit Labour performs a different ‘movement’ from that performed by National, with correspondingly different ‘tones’.
@Puddleglum
I fundamentally agree with your comment, Your first two paragraphs describe well, in my mind, why I hear many many comments re “the two main parties being much of a muchness”.
In the bigger picture, perhaps they are not so very different, however, when it comes to details, I disagree with them being (exactly) the same. i.e. it does make a difference having a Labour/coalition government. i.e when someone says to me “I’m not voting because all parties are the same” I implore them to vote (as long as they seem like a left wing voter!!).
Agree.
I believe that even small differences matter greatly – often to many people.
‘Good cops’ are better to have dealing with you than ‘bad cops’.
Voting matters immensely – and always will – in that way. It is one way of making society less painful for many people.
My father always used the old line – ‘If you don’t vote, you can’t complain’; and he was a lifelong socialist (having given up on the Communist Party at age 13). The lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils.
Labour is not a revolutionary party and hasn’t been for decades. I doubt it ever will be again.
Reversing neoliberal market-based approaches needs revolutionary perspectives forced by the minor parties so that the accepted norm shifts left again. Kiwibank, rail, are cases in point.
People who want a fundamental reversal of key’s policies, let alone lab4, need to givetheir vote to either parliamentary left parties, or even get more extreme left parties up to approaching 1% so that parliamentary parties start poaching their policies. Or the ~1%ers even get elected themselves.
Give power to the greens and mana and labour will move left despite those in its caucus who are idiot careerists. The difference between labour and national is that national need act to make them look like a moderating force rather than looters and thieves. Labour want to do good but are too afraid. It is still a fundamental difference.
People by nature have a bias towards optimism and expecting the best outcomes. That’s why a slogan like towards a brighter future is so manipulative and cynical. Sometimes “optimistic” is exactly the same as “unrealistic”.
+1 …sometimes quite a lot these days….
On the about-to-be sold assets; advice from DPMC:
“DPMC’s guidance note sets out how ministers and officials should talk publicly about listed companies, stressing the importance of making any market-moving decision outside of trading hours.
Ministers should only make a major statement that could affect a listed company when trading is open when there is a compelling reason.”
Opposition unbound, with National caught in the worst of both worlds.
So the Asset Sale Opposition Leadership mantle Race begins again: Which Labour or Green or NZ First MP will be the first to talk the price down?
Posted this on Sunday night, reposting now to catch a few more peeps, relevant since we are talking about more manufacturing job losses in NZ.
Rolls Royce Engines: the beauty of high value manufacturing
An amazing documentary, showing the kinds of wealth, capability and community that high tech, high added value manufacturing brings. It also makes it clear that this kind of expertise is gained over many years or decades and has to be protected and nurtured over the long term.
love don’t live here…anymore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_variants:_specifications,_performance_and_armament#The_Rolls-Royce_Merlin_and_Griffon_engines
Now thats spitting Horsepower
Oh that was lovely – incredibly beautiful, functional, high performance works of engineering and art.
Unfortunately the nagging voice of global warming in the back of my mind made it feel a bit like Pr0n
Enjoy the fruits of high energy civilisation while they are around, and yes enjoy the jet engines too 😀
There’s a couple of books that I think would be good for Labour to have a look at in the leadup to 2014:
Get out the Vote : how to increase voter turnout (2nd ed) (2008)
The Victory Lab: the Secret Science of Winning Campaigns (2012)
Yes, they are in the US context, but campaigning has changed – and it’s more than just flinging up a Facebook page or tweeting now and then. Buying ads on Youtube to get younger voters for example.
I’m not so sure the fundamentals have changed:
Target advertising messages/policy discussions at the medium for each market;
target each speech to the audience;
get as much facetime as possible;
release news statements to frame discussion as soon as possible – lead events don’t just react (or even worse do nothing);
involve your party membership in electioneering activities;
maintain contact with voters who show interest;
keep initiating contact with voters who don’t;
use party activists to register electors in target areas;
get the vote out on the day.
another Irish blessing
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2013/0107/1224328508613.html
It’s a Beautiful Day; U2?
Forking Hay (again)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault#The_History_of_Sexuality
Haberdashery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%BCrgen_Habermas
A Place in The Sun?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043924/
Shilo, when I was young, I used to call your name, when no one else would come…
The Turn of The Shrew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turn_of_the_Screw
The Taming of The Screw
http://www.amazon.com/Varieties-Religious-Experience-Penguin-American/dp/0140390340
James Gang
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443680/ (and the Coward Robert Ford)
more Habbadashery-Why do we look at injustice? Why do we tolerate wrong? Destruction and violence are before us; strife and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed (aware of the backlog in the courts since “reform school”), and justice rarely prevails.
-You have made men like fish in the sea, like sea creatures that have no ruler. The wicked foe pulls all of them up with hooks, he catches them in his net. he gathers them up in his dragnet; for by his net he lives in luxury and enjoys the choicest food. is he to keep on emptying his net, destroying nations without mercy?
“Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion! How long must this go on? Will not your debtors suddenly arise? Will they not wake and make you tremble? Then you will become their victim. For the revelation awaits an appointed time; It speaks of an end and it will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it;
‘Iranophobia” pursued across the border
http://www.china.org.cn/world/2013-01/07/content_27607673.htm
Yesterday I found an article about H1N1 cases in China (but it’s disappeared now)
The Never-ending Story in The Labyrinth cacooning
http://www.espnwsummit.com/brightspotcreative/index.php/attendee_bios/view?name=Faith%20Popcorn
scattering cushions and sitting back to watch the future
-a plan so cunning we can pin a tail on it and call it a Weasel 🙂
“to live at all is miracle enough”-Peake experiences
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0197154/
Pico… pico…pico
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pico_Mirandola
“Nourish the cock, but do not sacrifice him, since he is sacred to the sun and the moon”(forget the greek I think it was)
-every pebble is an exception so Blam Blam blame?
“Allegory is life giving and and biblical “literalism” as meant today, is life denying”. Now all these things happened unto them for examples and they are written for our admonition.
Can we hear the bells of St Paul: Shane
another “confession” http://books.google.co.nz/books/about/Confessions.html?id=GbpZpda5y4QC&redir_esc=y ; an Excellent translation
just Bragg ing
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-book-of-books-by-melvyn-bragg-2276039.html
(I’m not looking for a New England) William Wilberforce read the KJ every day (obviously I don’t) and had it’s cadences and rhythms running through his veins= Obama-care
meanwhile, now the Commerce Commission are under attack (for being a “consumer Watchdog” ??? wtf) by Investors and their fund managers
Greed! was a discussion I had with a tangata whenua tane the other day; “No Limit to it”, he asserted. Pushin’ buttons? see the supermarkets after the New Year break? people were clearly emaciated and needed some more chippies and soft drink.
Face To Face http://www.paperbackswap.com/Human-Face-God-John-A-T-Robinson/book/066420970X/
Honest! :)(On The Beach; the lifesavers are rescuing record business) 🙁
-John
@ Colonial Viper
A personal note to Colonial Viper regarding your comment yesterday:
“Like “freedom fries”? Not sure if this is where you are coming from, but I have a dislike of the American-style use of ‘freedom’ as a word pseudo-representing all that is good and wholesome and God-fearing in the world.”
For a first hand account of what it is like to lose virtually all of one’s “freedoms” at the hands of a dictatorial regime, contact an amiable acquaintance of mine, Kim Dotcom.
Hi AmaKiwi. For real ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’ we have to move beyond a sole ballot box focus to that of broader democratic institutions, checks and balances (which might include binding referenda), and values throughout society.
Specifically applied to the Kim Dotcom case, the police and the SIS need to be acting in ways which uphold democracy, natural justice and due process, not offshore corporatism.
Brief outages this evening are to setup the firewalls at the main servers and to widen the data pipe
Test message
Test that I haven’t broken the awkwardly fragile re-edit
Seems to be working
Ok – looks like the SSL for authors works ok.
Another brief outage to increase the server CPU, and then I’m off to bed
Ouch. Didn’t really expect that the server would very slowly resize it’s disk footprint because I wanted more CPU. But it is ok now after the site was offline for an hour.
I’ll see if that fixes the peaking issues from todays dose of bots.
Tommorrow’s task is less of a problem – round two of the backup systems.
my own test message to get my viperous name back.
Awesome. And a new adjective introduced to the English language too 🙂