Open Mike 10/09/2017

119 comments on “Open Mike 10/09/2017 ”

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1. Barfly 1

   10 September 2017 at 7:48 am

   HDPA doing her best for the National Party

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11919488
   • Ed 1.1

     10 September 2017 at 8:05 am

     Tory puppet.
     • Alan 1.1.1

       10 September 2017 at 8:42 am

       what part of her article is not factually correct?
       • Ed 1.1.1.1

         10 September 2017 at 8:46 am

         See Hanswurst’s comment.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.2

         10 September 2017 at 9:43 am

         It’s an opinion piece, and contains no facts whatsoever. Glad I could help you try and grasp that.
       • tracey 1.1.1.3

         10 September 2017 at 9:47 am

         Alan

         Under their Code of Ethics they have to be fair and balanced. If they do not offer comments on the scrutiny of the recent avalanche of spending from Bill English in the same article, their code says that is ok so long as they are doing a series.

         Audrey Young owes us one on National on that basis from earlier in the week and now stuff owes us one. When do you reckon we will get it? Sept 24?
       • Ed 1.1.1.4

         10 September 2017 at 9:58 am

         Alan

         Let’s have some election scrutiny.

         Of thes state of our health system.
         Of the state of our Waterways
         Of the numbers in our Prisons
         Of the state of our Education system
         Of the levels of our emissions
         Of the levels of Child poverty
         Of the levels of inequality
         Of the levels of drug abuse including alcohol
         Of the levels of obesity
         Of the levels of homelessness
         Of the levels of home ownership
         Of the levels of foreign ownership of New Zealand
         Of the levels of corporate lobbying in NZ

         I could go on.
       • Rex Morris 1.1.1.5

         10 September 2017 at 1:01 pm

         The comment “Young people have been clamouring for the superannuation age to be lifted” seems to a statement of fact as written but when asked for evidence of this “clamouring” – no response!
   • Hanswurst 1.2

     10 September 2017 at 8:11 am

     It is particularly risible considering that the two points she singles out for scrutiny, tax and the age of eligibility for superannuation, have been subjected to nothing but scrutiny since they first surfaced. The entire article could be reduced to “Heather du Plessis Allen opines that media coverage of the election campaign should continue until the election.”
     • tracey 1.2.1

       10 September 2017 at 9:10 am

       Well said. The irony of an article lacking real scrutiny bemoaning the lack of scrutiny of Labour. Where is the scrutiny of the avalanche of money suddenly available from Bills cold dead hands? Taxpayer money on a Cathedral and NOW 30m for other random churches…

       As for the “mean girl” nonsense. When women resort to sexist generalisations we are the worst for it.

       Referencing the Smiling Assassin pisses me of cos most John Keyers saw it as a badge of honour. And no scrutiny there. Where were the journoes finding victims of the asassin and seeing how their lives have worked out?

       John Key ran this country for 8 years on the back of his popularity and people like HDA and Soper worshipped at his feet. It looks like now it is a woman…

       I agree with the tenet that Labour has deliberately sought to cannabalise Green votes. However I am not on the front page of Stuff. Scrutinise Act and NZF and so on as well. It is like HDA is suffering from Ardern ardour envy?
       • tracey 1.2.1.1

         10 September 2017 at 9:44 am

         I think I confused Stacey Kirk with HDA
       • Gabby 1.2.1.2

         10 September 2017 at 3:32 pm

         The smiling assassin reference won’t do any harm. Middle NZ loves a bully.
       • Incognito 1.2.1.3

         10 September 2017 at 4:08 pm

         ‘The smiling assassin’ was Sir John’s nickname and to use it in reference to Jacinda Ardern is infantile & unoriginal and expresses some kind of misplaced nostalgia for a political ‘chapter’ that should be turned over ASAP or, even better, written over with a completely new chapter.
   • Xanthe 1.3

     10 September 2017 at 8:12 am

     yes herald pulling out all the stops for nats today
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11918679

     Looks like nat have finially settled on their brilliant plan……… scaremongering
     • Ed 1.3.1

       10 September 2017 at 8:20 am

       And we find out the true colours of some in the media.
       • Hanswurst 1.3.1.1

         10 September 2017 at 8:56 am

         I don’t think it’s quite that simple. Tame’s piece is relatively harmless, although it does peddle a couple of annoying right-wing memes unquestioningly (the electorate votes with its collective wallet; it isn’t the substance that counts, but the perception), and the editorial “Jacinda should reveal more” actually contains some analysis of what Labour’s thinking on tax might be, rather than the constant screeching about every conceivable tax under the sun. However, the presence of all three pieces all in one go certainly shows that someone is toeing the editorial line we all expect from the Herald.

         Getting back to Tame’s piece, though, if one were to substitute “courageous” for “risky” in the title, and make a couple of minor tweaks to the article, such as replacing some references to “voters” with “National and the media”, it would actually be quite positive for Labour. Perhaps his framing’s deliberate, but perhaps it’s just symptomatic of political journalists’ being a rather closed chattering circle that constantly feeds off its own memes…
         • Pat 1.3.1.1.1

           10 September 2017 at 9:04 am

           it is even less than ‘relatively harmless’…it is almost cleverly supportive (wonder how his masters let that one slip through)…..he rationalises Labours stance for those seeking reassurance…..remembering it is not the tribally opposed that will determine this election, they are beyond reassurance.
         • greywarshark 1.3.1.1.2

           10 September 2017 at 9:06 am

           Hanswurst
           Your analysis of the Herald items – really good. Thanks – it’s easy to go to knee jerk reactions and miss the finer points.
         • tracey 1.3.1.1.3

           10 September 2017 at 9:12 am

           Nice analysis. Before your piece I had wondered if it was Soper and he and HDA wrote their pieces for Herald and Stuff respectively over eggs benedict yesterday.

           I do not think Tame has it in for Labour. Quite the opposite.
         • xanthe 1.3.1.1.4

           10 September 2017 at 10:22 am

           or perhaps interference from sub editor?
     • Bearded Git 1.3.2

       10 September 2017 at 9:03 am

       Agreed, and to accompany it they find the worst possible picture of Jacinda.
       • Ed 1.3.2.1

         10 September 2017 at 9:27 am

         The editor writes the headline and adds the photo.
         If I were Tame, I’d feel misrepresented by Roughan.
   • MindPilot 1.4

     10 September 2017 at 8:50 am

     And then there is this….https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/96633168/stacey-kirk-move-over-john-key-jacinda-ardern-is-the-new-smiling-assassin.
   • Ed 1.5

     10 September 2017 at 10:20 am

     Is the editor of the Sunday Herald different to normal editor?
     Today there seems to be a whole heap of articles with an anti-Labour bias.

     Hdpa
     Hide
     Tame

     and an anonymous Editorial.
     • Muttonbird 1.5.1

       10 September 2017 at 12:02 pm

       The Hide one was odious.

       For a former ACT leader, libertarian, promoter of choice and freedom, and an advocate of legalised suicide to want to restrict the ability of women to chose is utter hypocrisy.

       And throwing in the suggestion that women will be able to terminate at full term is pathetic for someone of his standing and snatched straight from the Down’s Syndrome advocacy group’s Facebook page.

       What a horrible little man he is.
       • Hanswurst 1.5.1.1

         10 September 2017 at 5:54 pm

         Hide’s also just a poorly constructed piece. He starts off arguing that Ardern’s stance is misguided because taking any firm stance at all risks alienating some voters, then segues into arguing that, although the current law is unfit for purpose, changing it is a bad idea because there are issues to be tackled.

         He doesn’t even attempt to draw any conclusion from these two disparate arguments, nor does he offer any insight into the issues beyond what has already been put out there by Saving Downs, whose “information”, moreover, has already been highlighted as unconnected to Ardern’s undertaking to remove abortion from the Crimes Act. It almost goes without saying that he makes no attempt to refute that assessment.

         Hide seems to be a perfect example of the Peter Principle: elevated to party leadership and political commentator on the basis of a formidable reputation as a “perkbuster”, but found to be woefully inadequate in any pursuit other than embodying that phenomenally stupid term.
2. Cinny 2

   10 September 2017 at 8:16 am

   On Q+A this morning at 9am, is a debate about the environment, “there are 7 parties in tomorrow’s debate: @winstonpeters @ScottSimpsonMP @DavidParkerMP @damianlight @FoxMarama @dbseymour @jamespeshaw”

   Why isn’t Nick Smith there, he is the minister for the environment, but instead scott simpson is rolled out? I’m confused. He ran away from the nelson markets yesterday after the sculpture turned up next to his caravan, is he still running away?

   https://twitter.com/NZQandA
   • Ed 2.1

     10 September 2017 at 8:19 am

     Hopefully the other parties will ask that question.
3. Ed 3

   10 September 2017 at 8:18 am

   Here are some facts for hdpa.
   She could have read this before writing her puff article defending her rich mates interests.

   ‘Beneficiary groups have slammed Work and Income over a new report showing people missing out on $200 million a year in entitlements.

   Beneficiary advocacy groups say figures released under the Official Information Act paint a damning picture of the government and Work and Income.

   According to the figures, there could be $200 million or more in payments not being collected by beneficiaries.

   Auckland Action Against Poverty spokesperson Alastair Russell said Work and Income case managers deliberately withhold information about benefit entitlements.’

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2017/339084/beneficiary-advocates-slam-winz
   • Cinny 3.1

     10 September 2017 at 8:34 am

     I’ve heard from more than one beneficiary that they are not told what they are entitled to, they have to ask. The info is not volunteered.
     • tracey 3.1.1

       10 September 2017 at 9:13 am

       In fact it is in their KPIs according to some in the know to NOT tell what the client doesnt know
     • Patricia 3.1.2

       10 September 2017 at 10:23 am

       If you don’t know what entitlements are available at WINZ then how can you possibly apply for them ? Advocates and financial mentors have a wealth of knowledge and can support their clients at WINZ appointments. Always wise to take along a witness (although it didn’t work out that well for Winston).
       • AsleepWhileWalking 3.1.2.1

         10 September 2017 at 5:25 pm

         Sorry, “financial mentors”?
4. Ed 4

   10 September 2017 at 8:41 am

   Bryan Bruce has documentary out on TV3 Tuesday at 8.30 p.m.

   This is from his Facebook page on 7 September.

   “I have to get my facts right. Politicians don’t. In documentaries like the one coming up next Tuesday on THREE I have to make every effort to get my facts right. If I don’t do my research and just make stuff up then I face the prospect that I and the broadcaster are fined for inaccuracy .(It’s never happened to me by the way).

   Not so with National’s Cabinet members Steven Joyce or Anne Tolley When Finance Minister Joyce was asked by Guyon Espiner today to name one other person in New Zealand who agreed there was a $ 11.7 Billion hole in Labour’s fiscal policy he couldn’t do it

   And here’s Minister of Social Development Anne Tolley quoted in a Newsroom article by Bernard Hickey “In addition, one in five beneficiaries tell us that drug use is a barrier to them getting a job ” 1 in 5 …. Really? According to her own Ministry – last year, there were 31,791 referrals for drug testable positions nationwide and just 55 sanctions for failing a drug test. (See Herald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11639758 ) So which is it Minister? 1 in 5 beneficiaries on drugs.. or 1 in 576 according to your own actual tests?

   The more National just makes stuff up , the less credibility they have. Just take a look at the poll released tonight . National is at the lowest level its been since 2005.

   So … watch out for some inconvenient truths in my doco next Tuesday. Some politicians may squeal – but I can back up every fact I give with very credible resources.”

   https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1462834220465592&id=334536643295361&__tn__=%2As%2As-R
   • Ant 4.1

     10 September 2017 at 11:02 am

     He’s a bit off target with the drug testing comments, one of the big problems at the moment are people turning down job offers because they are scared of failing a drug test and then getting sanctioned. Multiple agencies and NGOs are dealing with this problem.

     Doesn’t just effect beneficiaries either but workers looking to move up into higher skill higher paying jobs.
     • Antoine 4.1.1

       10 September 2017 at 1:17 pm

       I was gonna say, Hickey’s 1 in 576 is not necessarily incompatible with Tolleys 1 in 5.

       A.
     • Hanswurst 4.1.2

       10 September 2017 at 6:53 pm

       Do you have any data on that? The problem with Tolley’s credibility here is that she is making a claim that just *happens* to support the long-standing policy and propaganda of her party, but providing no verifiable data to back it up, whereas the available data make her claims seem counter-intuitive at best.
5. Carolyn_nth 5

   10 September 2017 at 8:45 am

   Rod Oram has a newsroom article about NZ’s failure to and need for plans for economically viable and environmentally sustainable cities and urban areas.

   But we townies are hypocrites for damaging our urban environment. We plan badly, use land wastefully, underinvest in homes, infrastructure, civic amenities and environmental systems, and devalue our landscapes, coasts and water – fresh and salt.

   We criticise cockies for high nitrate levels in water. Well, our emissions of nitrogen oxides from vehicles are second only to Mexico’s in the OECD.

   As if that wasn’t bad enough, we’re failing to reap the deeper economic benefit of fast-growing urban areas. Wages are higher than in rural areas but productivity and wage growth is equally sluggish.
   • Ed 5.1

     10 September 2017 at 8:53 am

     He destroys the government’s argument for the East/West corridor.
   • greywarshark 5.2

     10 September 2017 at 9:15 am

     Oram feeds the cockies arguments that the cities are big polluters so get off our backs. And at present it is the cockies chosen political party that keeps the pollution levels as high as they are, because of that political party, National, being kept in power by cockies and the indifferent classes.

     So don’t blame we townies for being hypocrites Rod. You are spreading the muck around too widely. Don’t be like the back end of a hippopotamus with us thank you very much. I didn’t vote the Nationals in. I am working for and thinking about having a better NZ but my agency is small compared to the vast machine of National’s that bulldozes flat every practical thought that would improve NZ in any way.
     • Graeme 5.2.1

       10 September 2017 at 11:43 am

       We have all got to demand and meet higher standards of thinking, planning, resource use and dealing with the effects of our activities on the environment.

       For urban planning, look to the ribbon development happening all over the country. The number of urban stormwater and sewerage systems that are effectively combined at high flows is staggering. The heavy metals and hydrocarbons in urban stormwater is a disgrace. We all have to do a lot better than we are.

       Rural environmental performance won’t improve unless there’s a change in urban attitudes, and equally urban performance won’t change unless there’s a change in rural attitudes. It’s not a rural / urban thing, it’s a New Zealand thing and we won’t get any improvement unless we all change.

       But the real thrust of Oram’s argument is economic. We’ve spent the last 30 years trying to get richer by seeking to reduce costs, rather than have the best , highest value products and living environment. And we’ve all got to think how we do that.

       “But voters should also ask a question of themselves: how can each of us help create a distinctive New Zealand urbanism, one that matches our natural environment for capturing the imagination of people the world over?”
       • greywarshark 5.2.1.1

         10 September 2017 at 1:10 pm

         Graeme you are exactly right. But make your point to the self-satifsied that I meet every day. Not in the community help, the environmental concern places, but in the pubs where they drink their problems away, in the financial houses, the women’s garment shops and hairdressers where they buy the look of having made it (that’s in the world of Success), the real estate houses, the farmer offices where they plan their next buy-out and study the prices for future commodity markets.

         How do you make your point to them? They probably won’t be found on this blog, if they do come they are armed with a brain that is packed with bubble wrap to prevent anything impacting its delicate and fragile substance.
         • Graeme 5.2.1.1.1

           10 September 2017 at 6:51 pm

           Fed Farmers took Invercargill City to task recently regarding ICC’s stormwater / sewer discharges. Robert Guyton might be able to provide some background on what went on there. So they actually get it, but I’m not sure whether in a positive way. But Fed Farm won’t get anywhere getting their members to have greater environmental responsibility if they don’t demand other users / abusers are held to the same account. And good on them.

           Farmers I know and do work for are really onto looking after and maintaining their farm and neighbouring environments. But I also see some shockers, and not just farmers. But generally these are activities that haven’t had a consent renewal in the last 20 years.

           Ngai Tahu have made QLDC buck their ideas up regarding sewer discharges and have had a very active role in water take consents in Otago. Their values make a lot of sense.
6. Eco maori 6

   10 September 2017 at 8:54 am

   Some one is using my email to open a discus
   Account I think I no who it is as discus track how many hit you get and links to Twitter Facebook an other multi media!!!!,
7. Cinny 7

   10 September 2017 at 9:02 am

   Q+A just started on tvnz, Environment Debate, link for live stream here if you are interested

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/content/tvnz/onenews/story/2017/08/31/live-stream-q-a.html
   • marty mars 7.1

     10 September 2017 at 10:10 am

     Thanks enjoyed that.

     Nice to see the jokey foxpeters interaction. Didn’t see the same lightheartedness between labour and the greens – why are we in such a mess? Watch everyone except Shaw to find out.
     • Cinny 7.1.1

       10 September 2017 at 7:29 pm

       Same Marty, it was a goodie. David Parker owned scott simpson more than once, James Shaw has proven to be outstanding in all the debates, and Foxy cracks me up big time. Winnie and rimmer dang. Ryan Gosling barely got a look in.

       Jessica Much did a fantastic job keeping that lot under control.

       Here’s a link for any that missed the Debate on the Environment it’s entertainment plus lolz. Still wondering why nick no show couldn’t even come and front the ministry he is responsible for, useless.
       https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2017-e27

       Maybes nick is a bit butt hurt post Saturday market.
       The sculpture was at the Mot markets today, a truly impressive work of art, the detail and craftsmanship, really well done, right down to the towels wrapped around his ankles as socks and the undone shoe laces. Drew quite an audience, lots of laughter, and the kids ROFL, I asked some of them if they knew who it was, Donald Trump they reply, so I filled them in, cheeky boys asking me what was hanging between the legs of the ‘feral statue’, dang local kids crack me up. The artist was generous in that dept lolz.

       The stall holder at nicks rear told me he had been put in the arseholes section of the market and should get a discount for the site, LMAO, he was soooo funny, some fella was getting his photo taken in between nicks legs, and the stall holder was like… ‘careful mate, you’ll be the biggest dick head in Motueka if you stay there too long” everyone laughing. Many came just to view the sculputure.

       I wonder if nick will challenge the artist again, saying “nothing you make could offend me”, may not having been the wisest comment nick made when the artist was invited to dinner one night.
       • marty mars 7.1.1.1

         10 September 2017 at 7:36 pm

         be good to see that sculpture over the hill for our sat market but wrong electorate so who knows – lots of lols from your report – nice, nick needs to go
8. Carolyn_nth 8

   10 September 2017 at 9:56 am

   It’s interesting to look at the ratings given to various political parties on various areas of interest.

   Boots theory has links to some such ratings.

   Of interest is that:

   On climate change and health, (NZ climate and health council), The Greens by far the best, with TOP scoring quite badly – worse than Labour.

   people’s agenda for Aotearoa, Greens, Māori and TOP score well, Labour slightly behind them.

   PSA on various selected priorities, noticeably,

   Greens, Internet, Labour, Māori, do well on support for Industrial relations, while National, top, NZ First and ACT get a NO.

   On all their criteria, the GP get a tick (Yes) of approval; Internet get all ticks except for an In Principle (IP) judgement on housing; Labour mostly ticks with a few IPs; TOP a mix of Nos, Yeses and IPs; Māori 1 No plus a mix of Ys and IPs; National and ACT responses dominated by red N(o)s
   • weka 8.1

     10 September 2017 at 10:26 am

     The PSA one says that National ‘supports’ raising benefits to a liveable rate. Which is news to me and such a mistake that it makes me question their whole chart.
     • Carolyn_nth 8.1.1

       10 September 2017 at 10:35 am

       The PSA chart is based on the politcal partoes responses to their questions. So basically, it means that is what the Nats’ said.

       The full list of responses to the PSA survey is here.

       Basically, on Social Security, the Nats said No to all these:

       A rewrite of the Social Security Act to recognise that work is not always available and that people may have caring responsibilities, or physical and mental health needs that means work is neither possible nor desirable.

       Review of the sanctions regime with a view to removing the most unfair and punitive sanctions.

       Index benefits, including Working for Families payments, to the average wage.

       Maintain the age of superannuation eligibility at 65 years.

       And the only social security measure the Nats said Yes to was this one:

       Increase basic benefit levels to ensure they are set at liveable levels.

       Which seems somewhat contradictory, and open to what they mean by “liveable”, given they don’t want to index benefits to the “average wage”.
       • weka 8.1.1.1

         10 September 2017 at 8:43 pm

         “So basically, it means that is what the Nats’ said.”

         Doesn’t that render it useless given we know National lies? I would have thought they would fact check.
9. Sans Cle 9

   10 September 2017 at 10:26 am

   Confound the Science
   Nice melodic parody on Trump! Peace to all…..and good luck to the Greens launching their climate change policy later today in Auckland.
10. joe90 10

    10 September 2017 at 10:29 am

    Nowhere in the Florida Keys is safe but the procession of people, their children and dogs, continues.
    • joe90 10.1

      10 September 2017 at 10:30 am

      Cam location

      https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/Southernmost+Point/@24.5248648,-81.7632164,75094m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88d1b6dc4e08c339:0xf94b45644a592e51!8m2!3d24.5465315!4d-81.7974323?dcr=0
      • joe90 10.1.1

        10 September 2017 at 11:29 am

        Video,

        #HurricaneIrma 🌀begins to thrash 🌊 #FloridaKeys in #Florida 🍊 pic.twitter.com/DYf1Nmjh8A— Aldo Giammusso ⚽️ (@AldoGiammusso) September 9, 2017

        https://twitter.com/AldoGiammusso/status/906621913874812929
    • marty mars 10.2

      10 September 2017 at 11:06 am

      Network error trying to use that cam. This is a shocking storm.
      • joe90 10.2.1

        10 September 2017 at 11:21 am

        Looks like local cams are dropping out as they lose power.

        btw, a list of twitter accounts to watch

        https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/lists/hurricane-irma

        edit: found a montage of cams
    • joe90 10.3

      10 September 2017 at 11:33 am

      The worst of people.

      If you go to a shelter for #Irma, be advised: sworn LEOs will be at every shelter, checking IDs. Sex offenders/predators will not be allowed— Polk County Sheriff (@PolkCoSheriff) September 6, 2017
      • Poission 10.3.1

        10 September 2017 at 11:39 am

        its worse then you think if they cannot read or spell the ROE.

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJTSsKQXcAEAk44.jpg:large
        • joe90 10.3.1.1

          10 September 2017 at 11:42 am

          Florida man strikes.

          https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-gun-owners-encouraged-apos-213111921.html?.tsrc=fauxdal

          https://twitter.com/_floridaman/
11. Ed 11

    10 September 2017 at 11:26 am

    More spending promises by the National Party. When will Audrey Young check their numbers?

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2017/339097/national-pledge-to-add-10k-to-homestart
    • UncookedSelachimorpha 11.1

      10 September 2017 at 12:03 pm

      More like, “idiot National use tax payer money to drive up house prices another 10k.”

      What a clueless policy, demonstrating a total ignorance of basic economics, from the party that pretends it is good with finance
    • Karen 11.2

      10 September 2017 at 12:04 pm

      Bernard Hickey‏ @bernardchickey 31m31 minutes ago

      “National doubles 1st home buyers grants again. Treasury says they just push up prices & hand subsidies to the rich.”
      • Bearded Git 11.2.1

        10 September 2017 at 6:09 pm

        the conservatives did something similar in the uk and it simply increased demand and so prices….also english is saying that this deposit will enable people to buy $600k houses but forgets they cannot make the repayments …..building cheap but quality state houses is the way to go
    • Pat 11.3

      10 September 2017 at 1:17 pm

      2014
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11313568

      2016
      http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/82657663/First-home-buyers-get-boost-with-KiwiSaver-changes-Nick-Smith

      2017
      https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/09/10/47097/election2017live-15days

      Einstein may or may not have said…”the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result” but there appears no dispute he said
      ‘Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters. ”

      National…the epitome of both.
    • ianmac 11.4

      10 September 2017 at 1:31 pm

      I thought it was illegal for Political Parties to offer bribes for votes?
      If so, will English be charged?
      • rod 11.4.1

        10 September 2017 at 3:25 pm

        Yep, it looks like Boring Bill is trying to buy votes with taxpayers money.
12. Eco maori 12

    10 September 2017 at 11:47 am

    So the MAORI seat debate so I purposed abandoning them because in my view they were unfair on the left so for the MAORI
    Seats to be fair there should be 15 seats and not seven. The seats should be based on population numbers to be fair to Maori.
    How could Korako Nuk sit there and back national bull shit policy the only reason only Scotty Morrison cut him down was because the others were respecting his seniority in age if not they would have cut him down good on you Scotty.
    Marana Davis is right to say that the people that were in the state care state and abused many of them end up in gangs are owed a investigation. And the people and state held accountable for there actions and the state to pay compensation to these people.

    I have seen prefab house built on small pieces of land quiet fast.
    So we need to come up with a simple efficient designs to build eco efficant house
    And the workers need to build these house well we have plenty of people to train it doesn’t take long for someone to learn to be a hammer hand you need one qualified builder for 3 hammer hand so natianal DON’T go pissing in the wind about needing 50.000 immigrants to build more house’s . We just need the right plan And the will to build.
    The council’s and high schools can help train builder’s and build good houses.
13. One Anonymous Bloke 13

    10 September 2017 at 11:51 am

    On election day, spare a thought for Lani Hagaman. 😈
14. cleangreen 14

    10 September 2017 at 12:42 pm

    Clean green are we??
    I don’t think so; watch this.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/peopleandpower/
    Polluted Paradise
    People & Power investigates New Zealand’s water pollution problem as regional elections gear up.
    31 Aug 2017 12:41 GMT | New Zealand, Water, Pollution
15. Eco maori 15

    10 September 2017 at 12:51 pm

    Big upps to everyone in NZ and around the world for using social media to fight for changes to the fucked up systems that run our world and country.
16. Antoine 16

    10 September 2017 at 1:20 pm

    Unicef is looking for money to deal with Hurricane Irma, the Mexico earthquake, famine in the Yemen, floods in India and various other calamities occurring simultaneously – they say their “resources are stretched as never before” . You can donate at https://www.unicef.org.nz/.

    A.
17. adam 17

    10 September 2017 at 1:20 pm

    Dr. Gerald Horne is the Chair of History and African American Studies at the University of Houston talks to Abby Martin. Great interview, 33 minutes.
18. greywarshark 18

    10 September 2017 at 1:41 pm

    Weekend thought from the utterances of Lao Tzu. (Before the weekly utterances of the combatting political parties.) The meanings are not clear, confusing even.
    May be good for sharpening our minds to define the difference between truth, half-truth and ‘smoke gets in your eyes’.

    Wu wei (無爲), literally “non-action” or “not acting”, is a central concept of the Daodejing. The concept of wu wei is multifaceted, and reflected in the words’ multiple meanings, even in English translation; it can mean “not doing anything”, “not forcing”, “not acting” in the theatrical sense, “creating nothingness”, “acting spontaneously”, and “flowing with the moment.”[44]

    It is a concept used to explain ziran (自然), or harmony with the Dao. It includes the concepts that value distinctions are ideological and seeing ambition of all sorts as originating from the same source. Laozi used the term broadly with simplicity and humility as key virtues, often in contrast to selfish action. On a political level, it means avoiding such circumstances as war, harsh laws and heavy taxes. Some Taoists see a connection between wu wei and esoteric practices, such as zuowang “sitting in oblivion” (emptying the mind of bodily awareness and thought) found in the Zhuangzi.[43]

    Some of Laozi’s famous sayings include:

    “When goodness is lost, it is replaced by morality.”

    “Without Darkness, there can be no Light.”

    “The usefulness of a pot comes from its emptiness.”

    “The best people are like water, which benefits all things and does not compete with them. It stays in lowly places that others reject. This is why it is so similar to the Way.”

    “When people see some things as beautiful, other things become ugly. When people see some things as good, other things become bad.”

    “Try to change it and you will ruin it. Try to hold it and you will lose it.”

    “Those who know do not say. Those who say do not know.”

    “When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you.”

    “Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished.”

    “A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.”

    “Music in the soul can be heard by the universe.”

    “A journey of a thousand miles starts under one’s feet.”
    “The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be.”
    — Laozi, Tao Te Ching
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi
19. weka 19

    10 September 2017 at 2:07 pm

    Greens livestream climate change policy announcement is about to start,

    https://www.facebook.com/nzgreenparty/videos/10154698048811372/

    (should be able to see that without a login, just click past the prompts)
    • Craig H 19.1

      10 September 2017 at 2:34 pm

      Am watching it currently – very interesting!
    • ianmac 19.2

      10 September 2017 at 2:51 pm

      And talking of climate change the current wind map is here:
      https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-81.97,24.57,1815
      • ianmac 19.2.1

        10 September 2017 at 4:00 pm

        Looks like the Cyclone will have seriously trashed the coast of Cuba but looks as though it might now head to the Gulf of Mexico reducing the effect on Florida.
    • weka 19.3

      10 September 2017 at 3:50 pm

      That’s some serious shit from the Greens.
    • marty mars 19.4

      10 September 2017 at 5:26 pm

      “”We’re the first generation that will feel the effects of climate change, and the last that can stop it. We have a responsibility to act, and the Green Party has a plan to do it,” Shaw said.”

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96690066/green-party-to-set-up-a-climate-commission-and-instate-universal-dividend-from-climate-fund

      Not so sure we can stop it and I like this talk from the Greens. We have a responsibility to give the Greens a chance to enact their policies and with Labour (hopefully) getting serious about the issue, real change could happen.
      • weka 19.4.1

        10 September 2017 at 5:40 pm

        Shaw was serious as. Great to hear Fitzsimons saying that governments have to follow the people and that we need climate action not just climate policy.

        re stopping it, I see it as a continuum. Best case scenario and worst case scenario and the gradations in between. We do have choices about stopping the worst case scenarios.
20. ianmac 20

    10 September 2017 at 2:48 pm

    One of those online voter quizzes and I was surprised to see how close Greens and TOP were in my results.
    https://newzealand.isidewith.com/
    • Carolyn_nth 20.1

      10 September 2017 at 3:19 pm

      Maybe because of the questions asked. Little on industrial relations, housing, social security,etc.

      I got 73% GP
      70%Labour
      67%TOP
      61% Maori
      54% Mana

      Basically, I’m more for Mana than Labour, so I say it’s nonsense.
      • Hanswurst 20.1.1

        11 September 2017 at 2:20 am

        Yeah, I’m in the same situation. 69% Green, 64% Labour, 58% Maori, 50% Mana in my case, but when I read through the direct comparisons of my answers with the Mana Party, the main differences consist either in their not having provided an answer to that question, or in their having said “No”, whereas I answered “No, and…”. The fact is though, that I have generally found myself generally agreeing with Harawira’s statements, both on values and policy, over many years, whereas my agreement with Labour pronouncements has been much less consistent.

        Having said that, I decided several months ago to give my party vote to the Greens, and I haven’t seen any reason to change that as yet, so the tool is not entirely without merit.
21. Pat 21

    10 September 2017 at 3:43 pm

    “A Labour-led Government would ban foreign purchases of New Zealand property “by Christmas”, leader Jacinda Ardern told her supporters at a rally in Wellington this afternoon.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11920642

    Today, Shaw said current polls – which “sometimes make my teeth grind” – showed the question now was not whether Labour will win, but who they will invite into government with them.

    “If you…don’t want Winston Peters holding Labour over a barrel, I am asking you to give your party vote to the Greens…[for] the most environmentally friendly, most progressive government in generations.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11920649
22. ianmac 22

    10 September 2017 at 3:47 pm

    And Jacinda says, “Labour would ban sales of existing houses to non-resident, foreign buyers “by Christmas”, immediately stop any sales of any state houses, and pass legislation to introduce standards for heating and ventilation in rental property.

    So Key guessed that Labour would be in power so sold his house for $20million to a Chinese foreigner. After Christmas he would not be able to. 1500 people at her meeting in Wellington.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11920642
    • Graeme 22.1

      10 September 2017 at 4:17 pm

      At the top end of the property market the restriction may not have much effect unless the buyer is a dodgy bastard. If you can stump up 20 million for a property you can probably arrange residency as well.
      • Incognito 22.1.1

        10 September 2017 at 4:21 pm

        Twenty million buys quite a residence in my books.
        • Whispering Kate 22.1.1.1

          10 September 2017 at 9:02 pm

          I have been told by a couple of people from different families that New Zealand citizens who work overseas cannot buy a home in New Zealand unless they come home and reside here. One lives in Adelaide and owned a home here previously which is now sold and wishes to purchase a home here to come home to and she was not allowed to, she was told to be able to purchase she had to be living here. Another couple live in Hongkong and have also at some time sold their home here and wish to buy another to return home to – again they were told they have to come home and reside here to purchase a home.

          Is this correct – and why should whoever who bought Key’s home, be in China when he purchased it. What is going wrong here and am I hearing correct that NZ born citizens who work overseas cannot purchase a home here unless they return home and reside here.
          • Andre 22.1.1.1.1

            10 September 2017 at 10:20 pm

            I hear the banks here generally won’t lend to non-residents anymore. So non-residents need to be cashed-up or able to borrow overseas to buy in NZ.

            So it appears it’s the banks making it hard, not government regulation.
23. Craig H 23

    10 September 2017 at 4:20 pm

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/those-shoes-quite-moving-see-jacinda-ardern-tears-up-speaking-youth-suicide-awareness-event

    Totally agree with Jacinda – the only acceptable suicide figure is 0.
24. Karen 24

    10 September 2017 at 4:49 pm

    Early voting starts tomorrow and probably most of you have already decided how you will vote. For me, it will be Labour as my candidate vote and Green as my party vote. I have been helping our local Labour candidate in various ways, including door-knocking, and I gave my party vote to Labour at the last election.
    If you are on the Māori roll then remember the Māori Party have sided with National for 9 years and voted for the sell off of state houses.

    There are a few reasons for me giving my party vote to the Green Party this time but the two main ones are that they will push for benefit reform and their polling is dangerously low. They need every vote they can get to ensure that they can be a effective voice in a new Labour led government. A coalition with the Greens will mean we get a better Labour government, so if you are tossing up between the Greens and Labour for your party vote then I’d urge you to choose the Greens this time. They need every vote they can get.

    Some may be considering giving their party vote to Mana or TOP. Please do not do this. It will be a wasted vote. It is highly unlikely that Hone will win and even if he did manage to scrape in Mana will not get enough for another seat.

    I like our local Labour candidate so the choice is easy for me. Mostly, the candidate vote doesn’t actually matter; the only seats that count for candidate votes are Epsom and the Māori seats. In Epsom give your candidate vote to the Nat Paul Goldsmith and it may be enough to get rid of Seymour and Act.

    If you are on the Māori roll then remember the Māori Party have sided with National for 9 years and voted for the sell off of state houses.
    • marty mars 24.1

      10 September 2017 at 5:19 pm

      Thanks Karen.

      Yep in Te Tai Tonga I am voting for the Greens with 2 ticks even though it is a major long shot for Metiria to get in.

      For me – no vote is wasted.

      Good luck to everyone – let’s kick these gnats out!!!
      • Psycho Milt 24.1.1

        10 September 2017 at 9:39 pm

        Big ups for giving Metiria Turei your electorate vote. I’d hate to see her out of Parliament.
    • ScottGN 24.2

      10 September 2017 at 5:25 pm

      Out of interest Karen which electorate are you in?
    • Bearded Git 24.3

      10 September 2017 at 6:13 pm

      nice one karen…i have been helping labour but will vote green
    • swordfish 24.4

      10 September 2017 at 9:31 pm

      The number of Lefties who have suggested they might just vote for the Blue-Green TOP is a shocker. Utterly Wasted vote – might as well vote Tory.
      • boggis the cat 24.4.1

        11 September 2017 at 12:51 am

        I don’t see TOP getting anywhere this election, so agree that a party vote for them is essentially wasted this time.

        If they keep going, however, I can see them siphoning the National votes away — particularly those people with a social conscience who skew right on economics. (Or just greedy people who nevertheless understand that climate change will render hoarding up ‘wealth’ in the form of numbers in accounts a pointless exercise, unless it is dealt with.)

        Having spoken to some TOP people at some length last Sunday, it is interesting that they marry some Greens ideas with what I would consider ‘conventional’ neo-liberalism. I would prefer sensible Tories to take some political power away from the more extreme and unthinking variant.
25. ScottGN 25

    10 September 2017 at 5:45 pm

    Newshub has some more of those Reid Research polls of the Māori seats. Flavell beating Coffey in Waiariki, bad news for Fox if Howie wins Te Tai Hauāuru. Mahuta is also streets ahead in Hauraki-Waikato – take that Tuku!
    • swordfish 25.1

      10 September 2017 at 9:34 pm

      Great to see Māori King’s political intervention in Hauraki-Waikato so dramatically thwarted by ordinary Māori voters.

      Let’s hope he – and the Iwi Elite – learn an important lesson.

      (I should have added a Trigger Warning for the middle-class Luvvie Culturalist wing of the Identitarian Left who tend to self-indulgently romanticise anyone with a dollop of Māori ethnic heritage, blind to the severe clash of class interests that have opened up within Māoridom. All power to the whistleblowers who have tried to keep a Neo-Liberal Iwi Elite honest over recent years)
      • marty mars 25.1.1

        10 September 2017 at 10:31 pm

        you are good with cutting and pasting the numbers – the other stuff not so much.
26. joe90 26

    10 September 2017 at 6:42 pm

    RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!, and babby Yeshua and my magic sceptre, and lower your millibars, you hurricane you!.
27. Carolyn_nth 27

    10 September 2017 at 6:47 pm

    Interesting comparison of what parties say on their websites about charter schools.

    National, ACT, UF and the Māori Party don’t say anything about charter schools on their websites. The other main parties oppose them. UF doesn’t have anything about school-level education policies.
28. Jenny Kirk 28

    10 September 2017 at 7:07 pm

    I don’t understand you, Weka. You put up a moderator note at 8.6.1 and asked for a response. You said I needed to cite the links. So that’s what I did. And now I have another final warning – but don’t bother to reply. I can see you’re very busy. As I am doing campaigning stuff.
    I just wanted to inform people that Labour has had its climate change and environment policies worked out for a very long time. By saying these were extracts from our Policy Platform, I thought that was quite enough for a citation. But now I understand it wasn’t.

    [A general link to Labour’s policy means that me and anyone else who is interested has to go hunt for what you are referring to. As I just explained, yet here you arguing about it again and still not providing the actual links/cites. If you don’t want to link/cite then don’t cut and paste, it’s pretty simple.

    And here you are still commenting under my post when I’ve asked you not to. You are now banned from my posts until the end of the year. The other moderation warning stands re OM. – weka]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • weka 28.1

      10 September 2017 at 7:39 pm

      .
29. Jenny Kirk 29

    10 September 2017 at 7:17 pm

    Thanks Anne. Appreciated.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • Jenny Kirk 29.1

      10 September 2017 at 9:00 pm

      ah ! I get the picture. Anne – you’d better not say anything in support of my comments about Labour also having environmental and climate change policies. Be warned !
      As to The Standard moderators – I am now going to step outside of your self-imposed rules, and say I thought you wanted reasonable discussion on various Party policies – but maybe you only want discussion on Party policies you agree with, or know about. From a strong left (Labour) point of view, that’s more than a bit disappointing.
      Cheerio.

      [you didn’t get moderated for talking about Labour policy, you got moderated for repeatedly ignoring requests and warnings from a moderator about citing quotes and staying out of posts when you couldn’t do as an author asked. Making shit up about why you’ve been moderated is likely to get more moderator attention, as is wasting moderator time.

      Anne, or anyone, is free to support what you said about Labour. She did and didn’t get moderated because she did so well within the site rules. Read the Policy, but the bottom line is that authors moderate on behaviour especially where their time is getting taken up with unnecessary back and forths like today. – weka]
      • Anne 29.1.1

        10 September 2017 at 9:05 pm

        It’s only the posts of one moderator Jenny. You can make comments on the other posts without fear of moderation.
        • Jenny Kirk 29.1.1.1

          10 September 2017 at 9:22 pm

          Not sure I can be bothered, Anne. So much still to do to make sure Labour gets elected as a government this time. NZ cannot take any more of the shit dealt out by the neo-libs over the last three decades….. which I have spent the last 30 years or so fighting against ….. and petty little arguments about whether or not I should have cited things properly are just too time-consuming.
          • marty mars 29.1.1.1.1

            10 September 2017 at 10:11 pm

            why not just put the cite in – you cut and pasted it anyway – it isn’t petty imo it is important especially with billshit and dildo joyce trying to muddy the waters

            I think your approach of putting some facts up is good, you just have to put where you got the info from – let go of ego and just do it if you want Labour to win – that is more important than feeling hurt (and I can understand why you may feel that way I really can) – and I’m saying all the ego stuff to myself too. Kia kaha
            • Incognito 29.1.1.1.1.1

              10 September 2017 at 10:15 pm

              I agree with marty’s comments.
      • weka 29.1.2

        10 September 2017 at 9:17 pm

        .
30. joe90 30

    10 September 2017 at 8:12 pm

    Meanwhile, way across on the other side of the Atlantic, south of Cabo Verde, a tropical wave could well go full tropical depression within the week.

    It’s going to be a long September for these folk.

    http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

    http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=2
31. Pat 31

    10 September 2017 at 8:36 pm

    need a laugh?

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/96633028/david-slack-not-quite-the-greatest-story-ever-told
    • ianmac 31.1

      10 September 2017 at 11:07 pm

      Is Joyce a descendent of Moses then?
      • Pat 31.1.1

        10 September 2017 at 11:13 pm

        maybe he’s Aaron reincarnate?
    • Cinny 31.2

      10 September 2017 at 11:40 pm

      Pat, thanks so much for posting, that is by far the most wonderfully written opinion piece I’ve read in quite some time. Brilliant, so funny, so good. Shakespearian almost, it’s going to make the best bed time story to read to the kids, epic.

      Thanks, David Slack, most excellent

      “And the men in the temple were sore troubled, saying: “How do we stop her, Bill?” And then the one known as Steven said: “Hold my myrrh”.

      Now Steven was a wise man, according to his CV, and also he was not a wise man according to his academic record, for the grades saying “economics” did bear the words “Did not complete.”
32. Jenny Kirk 32

    10 September 2017 at 9:27 pm

    This is very funny ! thanks Pat.

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