Open mike 12/02/2013

174 comments on “Open mike 12/02/2013 ”

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1. vto 1

   12 February 2013 at 6:50 am

   I woke with a start
   in the middle of the night

   I realised our banking friends
   just hoovered another great bite

   of our daily toil you see
   each time our eyes alight with glee

   at the thought of hundreds of thousands
   bulging our wallets so easily

   . . .

   all that is needed
   is a 12% rise

   in the price of Auckland houses
   of great and wonderous size

   12% you see
   times $550,000 of each of 400,000 houses not many

   is $26,000,000,000 (that’s 26 billion) in one short year..

   So thanks mr banker for providing such a sum
   is only $1,6000,000 (that’s 1.6 billion) in interest (for printed money of all things) ….

   how …..

   bloody ….

   dumb ….
   • Rogue Trooper 1.1

     12 February 2013 at 1:41 pm

     yup, she’s a bubble all night. (just keep shuttin’ out those first home buyers and await the inevitable increase in liabilities; RNZ-landlords trying to get tenants to pay the water and rates bills in addition to rent)
2. Te Reo Putake 2

   12 February 2013 at 6:58 am

   USA! USA! We’re No.2!

   China overtakes the US in world trade. The Asian century has begun:

   http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/11/china-worlds-largest-trading-nation
3. Te Reo Putake 3

   12 February 2013 at 7:03 am

   Indifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:

   http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/11/labour-lead-conservative-12-point-poll
   • Coronial Typer 3.1

     12 February 2013 at 7:15 am

     Harrumph. His brother would have done better. 😉
   • The Al1en 3.2

     12 February 2013 at 7:38 am

     Keep pulling that bow string back, bruv. You’ve still got a fair way to go before you can link DS with EM. Nice try though.

     Show the poll that shows if UK Labour had ditched pm Brown before the last election, their losses would have reduced to the point of forming a legitimate coalition with the lib dems.
   • mickysavage 3.3

     12 February 2013 at 7:49 am

     I would not call Miliband indifferent. He is a conviction politician who speaks well.

     And it makes you wonder why New Zealand Labour is not doing better.
     • The Al1en 3.3.1

       12 February 2013 at 7:56 am

       And that’s with them blamed for GBR’s financial woes and increasing taxes for the lowest paid during their last government.

       Looking at caucus is reason enough to work out why NZ Labour are not doing better.
       • Enough is Enough 3.3.1.1

         12 February 2013 at 9:03 am

         Not really the Caucus, just the hopeless leader. Replace him with someone who can speak and Labour will have a 10 point bounce overnight.
         • fatty 3.3.1.1.1

           12 February 2013 at 2:12 pm

           Yip, elections are popularity contests these days…is there much of a difference between Labour UK & Labour NZ policies?

           edit – just read Karol’s comment below…now my question is, if NZ Labour brought in more policies like UK Labour, would Shearer be popular in the polls?
         • The Al1en 3.3.1.1.2

           12 February 2013 at 5:48 pm

           “Not really the Caucus, just the hopeless leader.”

           All right, just at least 22 of them.
   • karol 3.4

     12 February 2013 at 7:49 am

     Miliband does have a reasonable amount of parliamentary experience: been an MP since 2005, has been a cabinet minister, was secretary of state for energy and climate change, has experience in student politics, has been an political speech writer and taken a lead in drafting Labour Party policy, is articulate and is very good at delivering speeches. He also has explicitly articulated his political position: he has stated he is a socialist, is for civil liberties, wants to scrap uni tuition fees and implement a graduate tax, is for an FTT, is against welfare cuts.

     He still panders to neoliberalism, but I’d position him to the left of Shearer.
     • mickysavage 3.4.1

       12 February 2013 at 4:31 pm

       Yep and he said that the UK’s involvement in the Iraqi war was a mistake. All power to him.
     • Colonial Viper 3.4.2

       12 February 2013 at 11:42 pm

       karol – both Millibands were raised by seriously socialist parents. IIRC his dad was a published marxist.

       He still panders to neoliberalism

       Not quite; I would suggest that he panders to capitalists. That is slightly different, and also necessary, given the economic structure the world runs on today.
   • felixviper 3.5

     12 February 2013 at 9:04 am

     Interesting that you consider Milliband “indifferent” yet I have a far better idea who he is and what he stands for than I do Shearer.

     And that’s despite Milliband living on the other side of the planet and me having only a passing interest in anything he says.

     Still, you can prove us all misguided any time you like by publishing the glowing poll results showing that Shearer has mumbled Labour ahead of National here too.

     If not, you’re really only highlighting his failure to do so.
     • Colonial Viper 3.5.1

       12 February 2013 at 9:56 am

       Ed Milliband speaking at his old comprehensive, during the UK Labour leadership challenge.

       Listen to how he speaks off the cuff.

       “My parents taught me something very very simple. Which is a faith really. If you see an injustice in your society you shouldn’t just walk by on the other side, you shouldn’t just get angry, you should do something about it.”

       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DriJZdZxFpU

       This is who TRP describes as an “indifferent” leader.
       • felixviper 3.5.1.1

         12 February 2013 at 10:57 am

         There’s a lot in that video that relates to the NZ Labour Party too, eh?

         If only there were someone on the front bench capable of saying it. (Or someone who understands it.)
     • The Voice of Reason 3.5.2

       12 February 2013 at 12:57 pm

       Oooh lads, your ignorance about Ed Miliband’s status in the UK is kinda cute.. He was initially regarded as being hopeless and is often ridiculed as being as being a Mr Bean like character. Like Shearer, he is starting to grow on the voters there. He is also, like Shearer, facing a whispering campaign to unseat him. Like it or not, its an apt comparison.

       And, if you are going to claim reasonable knowledge of him and his works, felix, you should at least know how his name is spelled.
       • felixviper 3.5.2.1

         12 February 2013 at 1:34 pm

         Didn’t claim that at all, TRP. Quite the opposite in fact.
       • felixviper 3.5.2.2

         12 February 2013 at 1:47 pm

         “Like it or not, its an apt comparison.”

         Really? You must have some polling data that none of the rest of us have seen then. Apparently Ed is 10 points ahead of the tories.

         How far ahead of the tories is Dave?
         • McFlock 3.5.2.2.1

           12 February 2013 at 2:01 pm

           Actually, a quick google suggests TRP might be on to something.

           Just from the line snapshots in google:
           Sep 29, 2012 – NEARLY half of Labour voters think that Ed Miliband is too WEAK to be Prime Minister, a poll has revealed.

           http://www.thesun.co.uk/…/Only-one-in-five-Brits-think-Ed-Miliban…Oct 1, 2012 – FEWER than one in five Brits thinks Labour chief Ed Miliband is a PM in waiting, an exclusive YouGov poll for The Sun reveals.

           Jun 23, 2012 – Mr Miliband is used to being told that he is well placed to attract … Ed Miliband got some bad news: A private poll suggested his party’s lead …

           Voters cannot see Ed Miliband in power
           http://www.newstatesman.com/node/40683/Sep 14, 2011 – The Times has released its annual pre-conference poll (£), and it shows that Ed Miliband is still failing to command the support of his party.
           • felixviper 3.5.2.2.1.1

             12 February 2013 at 2:15 pm

             Not following you McF.

             Two leaders attract the same sort of criticisms, only one defies them.
             • McFlock …

               12 February 2013 at 3:47 pm

               with a year and a half advantage in time – sarc>so, no knives out before 2014, eh? /sarc>
               Oh, and I’m not sure there was a Cunliffe grandstanding at Ed’s party conference address, refusing to say whether he’d challenge for the leadership in Feb.
               • felixviper …

                 12 February 2013 at 4:15 pm

                 Fair point about the 18 month head start.
               • Colonial Viper …

                 12 February 2013 at 4:20 pm

                 Oh, and I’m not sure there was a Cunliffe grandstanding at Ed’s party conference address, refusing to say whether he’d challenge for the leadership in Feb.

                 Well, the UK Labour caucus had the sense to put their leadership out to a democratic vote by all members and all affiliates.

                 Amazing the unity in UK Labour which resulted eh?
                 • McFlock …

                   12 February 2013 at 6:01 pm

                   Unlike the NZ Labour conference that chose not to put the vote to the membership of caucus had confidence in the leadership.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     12 February 2013 at 11:44 pm

                     I agree with you.

                     On this count both the NZ Labour caucus and the NZ Labour Conference fucked up.
         • Te Reo Putake 3.5.2.2.2

           12 February 2013 at 2:16 pm

           12 points, felix, put your glasses on. It’s an apt comparison for the reasons I’ve given above. Feel free to point out the social democratic party leader anywhere in the world more like Shearer than Miliband.

           And seeing as you appear to have forgotten what I wrote, here it is again:

           “Indifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:”

           My intention was to make people immediately think of Shearer, when the article was actually about Miliband. It’s a jokey juxtaposition of the two leaders, both of whom suffer from a lack of public enthusiasm. It’s a very common form of comedic one liner. Oddly enough, I’m sure you’ve cracked a few jokes along similar lines yourself in the past, so I’m surprised you’ve forgotten how it works.

           ps, cheers, McFlock, you’re onto it.
           • felixviper 3.5.2.2.2.1

             12 February 2013 at 2:19 pm

             This “joking” of yours, I dunno if it’s working for you.
             • Te Reo Putake …

               12 February 2013 at 6:08 pm

               The others get it, felix*. You used to be pretty funny yourself, back in the day. Why so sad?

               *edit: Ok, you and the alien (below) don’t get it. Can I recommend the Guardian’s Fiver to you both? You’ll soon pick up how this comedic reversal stuff works.
               • The Al1en …

                 12 February 2013 at 6:26 pm

                 Maybe I’m just a little too dumb and/or you’re just so cunningly good.

                 Happy to concede to either, unless of course I’m re-polarising the humour and injecting a particle of back at you, in which case, perhaps not. 😆
                 • The Al1en …

                   12 February 2013 at 6:28 pm

                   But being as honest as I am, I can’t lie. I just didn’t get it. 🙂
                 • Te Reo Putake …

                   12 February 2013 at 6:50 pm

                   You’re no dummy, so it must be my cunning goodness, Al1en! At the heart of it I was comparing Miliband and Shearer and the two Labour Parties. The leaders both got their jobs despite apparently better candidates being available and neither enjoys uncritical support. Both have a long way to go to convince voters to trust them, but UK Labour has found a way to turn disenchantment with the coalition government into positive support for them. NZ Labour have a couple of years to do the same, but the point is, it can be done.
                   • The Al1en …

                     12 February 2013 at 6:54 pm

                     “You’re no dummy”

                     Now I know you’re having a laugh. 😉

                     “it can be done.”

                     No doubting you. If only NZ Labour had their own Ed.
               • felixviper …

                 12 February 2013 at 7:28 pm

                 Oh I get how it works. You say the same sort of stuff all the time and usually try to argue it, then every now and then instead of arguing it you say “I was joking, I actually meant the opposite, not just of what I said just now but of what I say all the time.”

                 Hilar.
                 • Te Reo Putake …

                   12 February 2013 at 7:36 pm

                   Fuck me, you’re really losing it felix! I’m not going to put smiley’s on every mildly wry comment I occasionally make just because you have a cobb on. Cheer up, for fucks sake!
                   • felixviper …

                     12 February 2013 at 7:39 pm

                     Oh, didn’t you get it? Was totally a joke.
                   • Te Reo Putake …

                     12 February 2013 at 7:44 pm

                     Yep, you certainly are. But not a particularly witty one, I’m afraid.
               • The Fan Club …

                 13 February 2013 at 12:01 am

                 1057 pedants write in to say that the Fiver’s not very funny.
           • The Al1en 3.5.2.2.2.2

             12 February 2013 at 6:02 pm

             “And seeing as you appear to have forgotten what I wrote, here it is again:

             “Indifferent Labour leader who nobody much likes in poll shock:””

             I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
             Is it Ed is perceived indifferently by some yet get’s good poll numbers, DS is perceived indifferently by many Labour members and voters, so it’s no surprise he’s continually gets the shit numbers his nothingness deserves?
             I don’t get it.
       • fatty 3.5.2.3

         12 February 2013 at 3:22 pm

         Like Shearer, he is starting to grow on the voters

         From the voice of reason
       • The Al1en 3.5.2.4

         12 February 2013 at 5:55 pm

         And yet on the old BBC polltracker, despite alleged misgivings, on the numbers, UK Labour have been able to form a government for the past couple of years.

         So the poll about dumping Brown pre election equating to reduced parliamentary losses.
         Not applicable here?
         Would dumping the extremely unpopular Shearer not bounce the polls?
         Argue otherwise.
   • David H 3.6

     12 February 2013 at 9:55 am

     And here the bloody Labour party can’t get past 33% What a crock!
   • KhandallaViper 3.7

     12 February 2013 at 1:01 pm

     Inspired TPR!

     We should aim for indifferent spokespersons, backbench MPs and NZ Council members too.

     Hey, why not go the full hog and insist that our canvassers/activists be indifferent and relatively unlikeable. That should do it. We are half way there. All we need now is for National to hang out the white flag, roll over and hand us the keys to the Beehive.

     Inspired Strategy, Go TRP, the Voice of Pagani!

     Aim…low..
     • Te Reo Putake 3.7.1

       12 February 2013 at 2:19 pm

       Comprehension prob’s this arvo, KV? Try reading the words aloud. Oh, you already do that?
4. Coronial Typer 4

   12 February 2013 at 7:14 am

   Worst Pope since that dork who made himself infallible. On your bike pal.
   • mickysavage 4.1

     12 February 2013 at 8:59 am

     Tau Henare for pope!
     • Colonial Weka 4.1.1

       12 February 2013 at 9:54 am

       lolz
   • Pete 4.2

     12 February 2013 at 9:04 am

     If only all leaders had the humility to step down when they realise they’re not up to the job rather than letting pride get in the way…
   • Vinscreen Viper 4.3

     12 February 2013 at 10:55 am

     Begs the question of what a great Pope would be:

     A) One so sure of the rightness of his convictions – and thus that all non-Catholics are bound for Hell* – that he mobilises all the tools available to any wealthy organisation in the 21st Century to assault the great unwashed with his version of the truth (including an all-out assault on the mistaken beliefs of those other misguided People of the Book presently lopping the limbs off non-believers in various parts of the world), or

     B) A Pope who declares ex-cathedra that the whole thing is really just a crock of merda, or

     C) A Pope who converts Roman Catholicism into its true role as an entertainment business, as “The Church Ltd.” and moves the Vatican to Hollywood, or

     D) A Pope who completes his entire Papacy without a single scandal,

     E) a lady Pope who manages not to get pregnant.

     *Pope Boniface VIII: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
   • Treetop 4.4

     12 February 2013 at 1:15 pm

     What has really made the Pope’s job untenable?

     Probably the last eight decades of child sexual assault creating a backlog of settlements.
     • Rogue Trooper 4.4.1

       12 February 2013 at 1:45 pm

       Yup! (according to RNZ report; he just could not reconcile all this kiddy-fiddlin’ and there is a lot more to come out of the woodwork in this pornocratic age)
   • McFlock 4.5

     12 February 2013 at 6:52 pm

     On the flipside, someone has at last voluntarily left a secure job, most likely just to go on a benefit.

     My ACT membership fees are in the post 🙂
5. ianmac 5

   12 February 2013 at 9:37 am

   Prime TV has taken on 60 Minutes. Last night they did a great (?) Public Relations job for Mr Key and Sir Peter Jackson. The happily used the 3,000 employed and the saving of the Hobbits thanks to clever, brave action by Key and Jackson, leading to billions (!) of dollars for needy NZ.
   Especially telling given the current wait for the emails.
   • xtasy 5.1

     13 February 2013 at 9:30 pm

     They still categorise that program as “current affairs”, I just wonder “whose” “current affairs”?

     “The Nation” on TV 3 has also struck me as having a “kind inclination” towards presenting the government in good light (remember the live cast from the National Party Conference and lengthy interviews with Ministers and co-hosted with selected media personalities).

     This all calls for a solid return to fair, balanced public broadcasting, so turn TVNZ into something like the ABC in Australia. As for advertising “paying” for private or semi private broadcasting, in reality consumers pay for the broadcasting through buying the products advertised.

     Only pay per view or so is acceptable, competitive “private” broadcasting.
6. bad12 6

   12 February 2013 at 9:54 am

   It is that time again for Maori to decide which electoral roll to sign onto the Maori or European rolls,

   The more Maori who sign onto the Maori roll, the more likely it is that there will be more Maori electorate seats in the Parliament…
   • Anakereiti 6.1

     12 February 2013 at 10:57 am

     running a whanau campaign as i type. Most Maori I know are on the Maori roll. Just need to educate more of our young ones.
     • bad12 6.1.1

       12 February 2013 at 3:15 pm

       Good skills, i love the Maori electorate seats, in my view an actual physical expression of Tinorangatiratanga within the Parliament,

       Maori who deserve a central and pivotal role in the central decision making process are given that with the Maori electorates where they can at once vote for a candidate from within the rohe and if they so choose Party vote for who they see as being the major party of Government,

       Speaking from Wellington i believe the Maori Party burned a lot of young people when it went into coalition with the National Government,

       i was highly impressed having young Maori knocking on my door at the 2008 election seeking my vote for the party,(as i explained then i had to decline as Tariana’s motivation for foriming that party in the first place, no matter how justified She was in doing so, precluded the Maori Party from supporting a Labour lead Government),

       It only took 18 months here for the Maori Party flags to all but disappear and the window stickers to be hastily scraped from the back windscreens of the waka,

       2011 brought no canvassers for the Maori Party to the door round here and i can only assess the damage done to all those young Maori that once so proudly trod those miles supporting ‘their’ party against my own experience of having trod similar miles on behalf of the Labour Party which helped elect Sir(spit)Roger Douglas into a Government, which provided me a serious imperative to view myself as a fool for having been fooled by those people,

       Good luck with inspiring your young voters we need them involved, not only as voters but as activists who have a voice in the political process…
   • mickysavage 6.2

     12 February 2013 at 11:00 am

     It makes you wonder about the suggestion that Tamihere was going to get West Auckland Whanau to go over to the European roll. This would weaken the case for another seat so that he could try and take Bennett on. He would be better off going up against Pita Sharples.
     • Anakereiti 6.2.1

       12 February 2013 at 11:05 am

       He sure would! Sometimes you wonder about politicians, signing onto the Maori roll as opposed to European should not be a monopoly game……
     • tc 6.2.2

       12 February 2013 at 1:56 pm

       JT must earn a seat by taking it from the opposition.
7. bad12 7

   12 February 2013 at 10:30 am

   Using Treasury figures Nick Smith is claiming that Labour’s KiwiBuild will not bring down the cost of housing in Auckland,(RadioNZ National news),

   I have yet to see this Treasury report but it’s obvious from what Nick Smith has been saying that the Treasury has started from the point of a ‘false’ initial premise,(that the entire ‘build’ is a one off 10,000 homes), and then extrapolated their conclusions upon that false premise, in other words created for it’s own purposes a ‘strawman’ argument with which to attempt to discredit Labour’s ‘KiwBuild’ program,

   Treasury of course get everything right in their advice to Minister’s like getting right the assertion that the GST rise to 15% along with the associated shuffling of the tax burdon to the detriment of those reliant on the lower income brackets for their daily needs by the Slippery lead National Government would be ‘fiscally neutral’,

   Such a getting of it’s advice right to Government blew a billion dollar annual hole in the Government’s revenue from taxation, not that Slippery and Co gave a big one about that as their only intent with such a ‘tax switch’ was to ensure the loyalty of the current National Party vote,

   The new Minister of un-Housing NZ Nick Smith tho thrives on such ‘strawman arguments'(if the truth were known it’s possible that He dictated the contents of the Treasury report to those who wrote it),and the 2009 settlement of Nick’s defamation of a South Island building supply company settled by over 200 grand of your and my monies shows that Nick hasn’t yet realized that mostly what is ejected from His mouth turns out to be s**t…
8. Anakereiti 8

   12 February 2013 at 11:02 am

   Did anyone read the Richard Prosser column in investigate magazine, where he refers to all muslims as being from “wogistan”, and states that anyone looking even vaguely “muslim” shouldnt be allowed on western airlines.
   • Colonial Weka 8.1

     12 February 2013 at 11:19 am

     Tried to find it online, but best I can do is a kiwiblog link (sorry).

     http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/wogistan.html
     • Colonial Weka 8.1.1

       12 February 2013 at 11:22 am

       “In his latest column he refers to certain people as coming from “Wogistan” and also declares that no young male who is a Muslim, looks like a Muslim or is from a Muslim country should be able to fly on a Western airline.”

       That rules out Temuera Morrison and Cliff Curtis ever flying again 🙄

       What does a Muslim look like anyway? I think Prosser means Arab. What a dick.

       Looks like pretty clear grounds for a Race Relations complaint. I guess he is after the publicity.
       • James 8.1.1.1

         12 February 2013 at 4:01 pm

         Not really a Race Relations complaint.

         If they are happy with “White Mother Fuckers” – since it was an opinion (of somebody that is generally popular on this forum) – then Prossers opinion (as messed up as it is) should be ok also.
         • QoT 8.1.1.1.1

           12 February 2013 at 6:19 pm

           Private emails and published magazine columns are completely the same thing! Using a naughty word and advocating institutional oppression are completely the same thing!

           God, could white dudes get over what a meany-pants Hone Harawira is already?
           • felixviper 8.1.1.1.1.1

             12 February 2013 at 7:20 pm

             Poor James, no grasp of set theory, takes a couple of words out of a sentence and applies his own meaning as if it were gospel.

             Hint James: When I say “smart motherfuckers have been posting in this thread” I’m not necessarily talking about you.
             • vto …

               12 February 2013 at 7:49 pm

               Messers felix and QoT, I aint diving into this one except to put this to your good minds…. this is exactly where the left misses huge portions of the population. Either the left has the wrong end of the stick in defending one disparaging racist comment and supporting the other disparaging racist comment, or the left is totally useless in explaining what is wrong with the point james makes. It just leaves the population shaking its head and dismissing it. QoT’s explanation comes across as splitting hairs to support personal preferences in the political realm.

               This is what they see. I mean, what is going on when the two “sides”, left and right, just cannot understand each others points. Especially on issues as basic as this. It just comes across as two sets of rules for two different groups to the rightish types…

               So, what gives?

               Over
               • felixviper …

                 12 February 2013 at 8:06 pm

                 I never said Hone’s comments were advisable, or helpful, or smart.
             • James …

               13 February 2013 at 11:54 am

               Yeah – Hone isnt a rasist – he is taken out of context. :Tui:

               Its people like you – and the fact that labour will die in the ditch with Mana / NZ First if you needed that are driving your voters away in droves.

               So dont worry about poor James – Felix Viper, worry about your own party who are sinking and will continue to do so. After all you are judged by the company you keep.
     • felixviper 8.1.2

       12 February 2013 at 11:50 am

       lol at that kb thread, not many commenters disagree with Prosser.

       DPF puts on his outraged urban liberal hat and invites all his KKK mates over for a beer.

       As usual.
       • Colonial Viper 8.1.2.1

         12 February 2013 at 2:24 pm

         I heard this Prosser issue make it on to National Radio. Really fucking sick bastard.

         If Winston doesn’t force Prosser to retract this ASAP it will be a black mark against NZ1: evidence that it’s still a racist party at heart.
   • mickysavage 8.2

     12 February 2013 at 12:34 pm

     If you ever needed an example of why a Labour-Green-NZFirst coalition will never work you only have to look at the stupidity and racist bigotry contained in Richard Prosser’s (or is that Tosser’s) article. And fancy writing for Investigate magazine!
     • gobsmacked 8.2.1

       12 February 2013 at 1:05 pm

       If you ever needed an example of why a Labour-Green-NZFirst coalition will never work …

       This, exactly this.

       Nobody on the (broad) left has to pander to the likes of Prosser. A Labour/Green majority is achievable. Now we just need Labour to say they really want one. And mean it.

       Is that so much to ask?
       • Colonial Weka 8.2.1.1

         12 February 2013 at 2:00 pm

         Completely agree micky and gobsmacked. It scares me everytime I see someone here talk about a threeway coalition that included NZF as if it’s a good thing. And yeah, Labour really need to get their shit together on who their allies are.
         • Sweetd 8.2.1.1.1

           12 February 2013 at 3:35 pm

           Based on this article, will Shearer have the balls to ask Winston that he either dumps Prosser or Labour will not go into coaliation win NZF?, or does getting into power trump everything else?
           • felixviper 8.2.1.1.1.1

             12 February 2013 at 4:31 pm

             Should be asking Key really, he’s the one who’s going to have to deal with Winston & co.
   • bad12 8.3

     12 February 2013 at 3:25 pm

     Excellent, Winston has just about passed His used by date, Brendon Who has been kneecapped and bundled off to Siberia along with His leadership aspirations,

     Prosser, the loose cannon in this little game of ‘Texas holdem’ has not only jumped off of the 17th floor in an act of political suicide far grander in scale than that of Brendon Who, Prosser has also managed to introduce the possibility that NZFirst wont feature in the next Parliament,

     Bravo Richard Prosser lets have you on the TV news for a week raving about muslims and ‘Wogistan’ a guaranteed provocation that should have the left arm of NZFirst walking away in droves…
     • bad12 8.3.1

       12 February 2013 at 4:14 pm

       Winston was just on RadioNZ National distancing Himself from Richard Prosser’s comments, saying that there are zillions of law abiding Muslims and he knows a few personally as they are Party members,

       Richard Prosser’s political future in NZFirst=Zero, NZFirst’s chances of returning to the Parliament in 2014= Fading fast…
9. Anakereiti 9

   12 February 2013 at 11:40 am

   Darn – no cliff in a hollywood movie – on the upside it also means no Tem in a hollywood movie.
10. geoff 10

    12 February 2013 at 11:54 am

    Just listened to yesterday’s RNZ politics with Hooton & Williams.
    http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20130211-1110-politics_with_matthew_hooton_and_mike_williams-048.mp3

    Yet again, Mike W agrees with almost everything that Hooton says and so yet again the seemingly
    only leftwing voice comes from the bloody presenter. (Hint Mike: It’s not Kathryn’s job to call Mathew out on his shit, it’s yours)

    Lowlights: When asked why NZ doesn’t have enough sailors to operate its vessels, Hooton bizarrely goes into a rant about how the Green party are hypocrites because they aren’t pushing for a strong military given their position on climate change. (Hooton apparently thinks that consequences of climate change for NZ will be millions of Indonesians trying to invade us.)

    After this Kathryn, once more, called him on his shit of not answering the question.

    Then….

    Right at the end Hooton, like a love-sick puppy, can’t sing enough praise for David Shearer, ‘oh David’s so savvy, oh David’s fought off three leadership challenges, oh David oh David….etc’

    I used to think the problem with the show was hooton but it’s not, it’s Williams.
    He’s too bloated (in all senses of the word) to do the job properly. Too close to the beltway. He’s spent too many years on the good paddocks, getting fat on the very system he should be railing against. I hear him speak and I feel, as he nods along with Hooters, that his mind is straying to the pasta and beer he’s going to have for lunch, or the afternoon nap in a comfy chair.

    Please step down Mike. Please let someone with vitality and enthusiasm do the job properly.
    • felixviper 10.1

      12 February 2013 at 2:01 pm

      +1
      • quartz 10.1.1

        12 February 2013 at 3:05 pm

        I don’t like having to listen to sound of Williams wheezing all the way through the slot. Can’t they turn his mic off when he’s not speaking?
        • geoff 10.1.1.1

          12 February 2013 at 4:22 pm

          Hah! Absolutely, quartz.
    • Colonial Weka 10.2

      12 February 2013 at 2:05 pm

      The problem is the Nine to Noon producers. Maybe they need a few emails of alternative suggestions and encouragement to change, or at least trial some different people. Maybe making complaints would help.
      • geoff 10.2.1

        12 February 2013 at 4:23 pm

        Yeah true, CW.
11. 4wardthinking 11

    12 February 2013 at 12:41 pm

    How can this be so? The secret vote is no longer secret? And whoever has leaked it is pushing Grant Robertson as leader?
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/02/was_it_10_votes_against.html
    • Colonial Viper 11.1

      12 February 2013 at 12:45 pm

      Yeah I understood that it was a 10 vote abstention as well. In otehr words, 70% of caucus decided that there was no need to give a voice to the members and affiliates.
      • The Voice of Reason 11.1.1

        12 February 2013 at 1:15 pm

        Don’t just blame the 70%, CV! The other 30% of caucus also decided that there was no need to give a voice to the members and affiliates and bottled it by abstaining.

        And, encouragingly, 100% of caucus endorsed the democratic process the members and affiliates wanted and voted in at conference.

        Even if this report was true, and I seriously doubt it, so what? The minority didn’t have the courage of their convictions., Shearer is endorsed and we move on …
        • felixviper 11.1.1.1

          12 February 2013 at 2:06 pm

          …to Robertson.
          • The Pink Postman 11.1.1.1.1

            12 February 2013 at 3:56 pm

            The next government will be a Shearer led Labour /Green coalition.and Shearer will prove to be an excellent Labour PM. I just wish some of you so called Labour Supporters would just start to fully support the LP, party . I think a lot of you are just Tories in drag if you are not well join the Nat’s and moan and groan to those Po faced creeps or better still join NZ 1st and join the Muslim bashers At least they give the Jews and Asians a break. from their Racist utterances .
            • Pascal's bookie 11.1.1.1.1.1

              12 February 2013 at 4:06 pm

              How hard would it have been for Shearer to respond to Prosser’s crap by saying “It’s outrageous and he won’t be a minister in any government I lead” ?

              But instead

              http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10864924

              where are his instincts? On what do you base your belief that he’d be an excellent PM?
              • Colonial Viper …

                12 February 2013 at 4:13 pm

                Why on earth is the word “Moslem” used in that NZH article??? What the frak is a “Moslem”???
                • McFlock …

                  12 February 2013 at 4:26 pm

                  An indication that the Herald’s only dictionary on site is fifty years old?
                • QoT …

                  12 February 2013 at 6:22 pm

                  Ha, it’s “Muslim” now. I noticed earlier in the day though that it was “Moslem” except for the name of the NZ Muslim Association. So who do you reckon the numpty is, Kurt Bayer or Matthew Theunissen?
              • McFlock …

                12 February 2013 at 4:19 pm

                Labour Leader David Shearer said he found Mr Prosser’s comments “offensive” and said they could hurt New Zealand’s reputation in other countries.

                “If those sorts of comments were made in the Middle East it could incite violence we don’t want that here.

                It makes us look like we don’t care about people from the Middle East, from Moslem countries. People will be looking at us with some disdain.”

                The fact they were made in a printed column made it worse as they were clearly pre-meditated, he said.

                And from Stuff:

                Labour leader David Shearer said the remarks were ”completely inappropriate for this Parliament”.

                “It’s not something that came off the top of his head as a mistake, it was calculated. I think MPs… should act responsibly. And in this case I think it could lead to inciting violence.”

                Other nations – particularly in the Middle East – will look on New Zealand “with some disdain”, Shearer said.
                • Pascal's bookie …

                  12 February 2013 at 4:24 pm

                  That’s my point McFlock.

                  His instincts. are ‘OMG what will people think’ rather than the principle. And he includes a weird little aside about how he thinks Muslims might riot if he’d said it in the middle east. At least he didn’t call it wogistan I guess.
                  • Colonial Viper …

                    12 February 2013 at 4:31 pm

                    The best bit is the subtle buying into the “Muslims are violent and lawless” meme that Prosser is promoting.
                  • McFlock …

                    12 February 2013 at 4:35 pm

                    No, his instincts were to say Prosser’s comments were offensive and completely inappropriate for Parliament.
                    THEN to look into the further problems with them, and the impact they could have locally and internationally. And that the comments were premeditated, not just a slip of the tongue.

                    Was he incorrect?
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 4:48 pm

                      The correct answer in that context is “That’s racist bullshit and I won’t have him in my govt”.

                      Anything else – in that context, for Shearer – is incorrect, yes.
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 4:56 pm

                      incorrect for two reasons: firstly, Shearer doesn’t do “ladsy” very well. Using the patois of the gutter wouldn’t be convincing from him – it would be patronising. And referring to “my government” at this stage would be fodder for key and yourself (seriously – if he’d said what you just typed, are you seriously saying you wouldn’t call him something like “try-hard and deluded”?).

                      So Shearer needed to go to the second characteristic of leadership: show decorum and geopolitical competence. Which he did.

                      Hone’s line was best, Peters did the minimising self-serving statement, and key was pretty noncommittal until fed the angle by the journalists.

                      [edit] PB – did we cross-post?
                    • Pascal's bookie …

                      12 February 2013 at 4:58 pm

                      Was he incorrect to start blathering about how he reckons Muslims might have reacted (hint Violent muslims)? Yes.

                      the point isn’t that what he said might hurt us internationally, the point is he’s a bigoted halfwit. How hard is it to say:

                      “It’s outrageous and he won’t be a minister in any government I lead” ?

                      If he needs to follow up on that go with how he wouldn’t have future in the party if he was a Labour MP but that’s a matter for Winston.

                      Or talk about how this is the sort of nonsense we last heard when Bush was in power, and the National party wanted to join in on the stupid war in Iraq, where John Key said we were missing in action.
                    • Colonial Viper …

                      12 February 2013 at 5:03 pm

                      That was geopolitical competence? For whom, a 3rd year pol-sci undergrad?
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 5:14 pm

                      nope. From someone with several years’ experience in the region.
                    • Pascal's bookie …

                      12 February 2013 at 5:37 pm

                      I guess we did cross post.

                      Read this: Judith Collins ffs, sounds more like what I’d expect a NZ Labour party leader to sound like:

                      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1302/S00126/nz-embarrassed-by-prossers-comments.htm

                      rain artillery on the prick, from a position of principle.
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 5:47 pm

                      Goff’s statement.

                      Similar to Collins’. Which is a valid technique – the leader frowns, the front bench barks. 1-MP parties have to do both.
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 6:14 pm

                      I didn’t mean he should say that verbatim McF.

                      My fault, should’ve been clearer. I just meant all he needs to do is strongly disagree and NOT waffle on about how you shouldn’t piss muslims off ‘cos they get a bit stroppy, or anything else.

                      Trouble is the more he does this sort of thing, the more I think he’s just saying what he really thinks.

                      And that’s way worse than what I was giving him credit for.
                    • QoT …

                      12 February 2013 at 6:23 pm

                      completely inappropriate for Parliament.

                      Totally appropriate in heaps of other contexts, though.
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 6:24 pm

                      Shearer did strongly disagree with Prosser’s comments.

                      I disagree with your interpretation of Shearer’s comments relating to civil stability in the Middle East. I think they were valid, especially given his extensive experience in the area. But feel free to correct him. I suggest repeating Prosser’s statements in downtown Cairo. Let us know how you get on.

                      @QoT: what a load of crap.
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 7:14 pm

                      “I suggest repeating Prosser’s statements in downtown Cairo. Let us know how you get on.”

                      Ah, so you mean if you just take Shearer’s literal words, squnting away all context and subtext, you could say he was factually accurate in that you shouldn’t actually go to the middle east and be all anti-muslim.

                      Does that make it a smart thing to say? I suppose it depends what message you’re trying to send.

                      A bit like Hone’s ‘white motherfuckers have been raping our land for centuries.’ Factually accurate if you allow a little poetic license, but potentially highly offensive, mainly to those with no grasp of basic set theory.

                      Many thought at the time that it was politically naive of him to say such things, but again, it depends who the message is for. Who do you think Shearer’s message about muslims being prone to violence was for?
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 7:48 pm

                      “Many thought at the time that it was politically naive of him to say such things, but again, it depends who the message is for. Who do you think Shearer’s message about muslims being prone to violence was for?”

                      That wasn’t the message I detected. So I guess is wasn’t for people who generally try to see if there’s any realistic reason for outrage before displaying it.

                      Maybe Shearer was simply pointing out that having a racist MP won’t make us friends in the Middle East, and might make us a few enemies? But once again Shearer can’t mention an issue without it apparently being an intentional dogwhistle.

                      Option B is that people are going well out of their way to detect cause for offense.
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 7:57 pm

                      It’s possible.

                      It’s also possible that he’s just not very good at making a concise, unambiguous statement.

                      I guess one day we’ll have enough data to figure out if there’s a pattern to support either of those hypotheses.
                  • The Fan Club …

                    13 February 2013 at 12:07 am

                    Ex-UNAMA worker in let’s-avoid-violence in Middle East shocker!
              • Colonial Weka …

                12 February 2013 at 4:19 pm

                Cf to Harawira –

                ” Mana Party leader Hone Harawira said Mr Prosser’s comments were racist, and without basis in fact.

                “It’s kinda like saying that no 19- to 35-year-old white guys should be allowed to go anywhere because they cause so many wars around the world.”

                Lol.
                • Colonial Viper …

                  12 February 2013 at 4:35 pm

                  I thought Hone was pretty damn good with that one.
                  • McFlock …

                    12 February 2013 at 4:37 pm

                    aye, ’twas a nice response.
            • 4wardthinking 11.1.1.1.1.2

              12 February 2013 at 11:24 pm

              It’s all very well saying Shearer will led a Labour/ Green coalition but he’s not exactly shining when it comes to actually having some talent on the front benches – still the same old, same old. Even Key has managed to gain the march on him when it comes to bold moves (and that’s saying something). The vindictive way he has treated Cunliffe is rediculous. When Shearer starts pulling the party together, we will start winning!
        • Colonial Weka 11.1.1.2

          12 February 2013 at 2:08 pm

          How private was the private vote? Did some MPs abstain instead of voting because they feared repercussions?
          • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.2.1

            12 February 2013 at 2:19 pm

            Well, not so much supposed to be a private vote, as a secret vote…
        • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.3

          12 February 2013 at 2:12 pm

          And, encouragingly, 100% of caucus endorsed the democratic process the members and affiliates wanted and voted in at conference.

          most MPs voted for just a little democracy (eg they supported the thresholds at 50% or 60%). Only a minority of MPs voted for the 40% threshold.
          • Te Reo Putake 11.1.1.3.1

            12 February 2013 at 2:38 pm

            I meant within caucus, in that specific vote, CV. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
            • Colonial Viper 11.1.1.3.1.1

              12 February 2013 at 2:43 pm

              Ahhhh no probs mate.
          • The Fan Club 11.1.1.3.2

            13 February 2013 at 12:08 am

            And, in fact, a minority of the R&F delegates.
        • alwyn 11.1.1.4

          12 February 2013 at 6:43 pm

          Can someone who really knows what the Labour Constitution changes were please explain one thing for me.
          Did Shearer have to get 60% of the caucus to vote for him to keep his position without a party-wide vote or did 40% have to vote against him to force a vote?
          In the first case an abstention would be just the same as a no vote wouldn’t it?
          In the second case it wouldn’t but there would surely have to be another candidate who stood against him.
    • Treetop 11.2

      12 February 2013 at 1:03 pm

      “Everyone in Labour knows Grant Robertson will become the next leader. The only question is when.”

      In August is my guess, six months to see if there is a poll improvement and then the chop or resignation as leader by Shearer.

      The link you supplied says it all, how united the Labour caucus are over Shearer being the leader.
      • The Al1en 11.2.1

        12 February 2013 at 6:32 pm

        “Everyone in Labour knows Grant Robertson will become the next leader. The only question is when.”

        I’ll add a why?
    • felixviper 11.3

      12 February 2013 at 2:05 pm

      Is this the “almost certainly unanimous” vote we heard so much about?
      • Colonial Weka 11.3.1

        12 February 2013 at 2:09 pm

        Nah, it’s the “Shearer will have 100% support” one.
      • geoff 11.3.2

        12 February 2013 at 4:27 pm

        Yeah tht’s right, pretty sure I remember someone saying something about that?….
        http://thestandard.org.nz/growing-the-left-vote/#comment-584523
        😛
        • Te Reo Putake 11.3.2.1

          12 February 2013 at 7:05 pm

          Er, Shearer did get 100% support, if this lie is true. 100% support from those with the courage to vote. The interesting thing in this beat up is how low opposition to Shearer now is. Ok, it’s not true, but if its down to just ten, Shearer’s here for the long run.
          • McFlock 11.3.2.1.1

            12 February 2013 at 7:10 pm

            Of course, a certain backbencher might refuse to say whether he’ll challenge in 2015…
12. Rogue Trooper 12

    12 February 2013 at 1:51 pm

    well, now that I have a telly, Shearer continues to underwhelm; maybe I’m phylum and xylem after all 😉
13. felixviper 13

    12 February 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Assuming you’ve replied to the wrong comment there, but anyhoo…

    “for all the reasons I’ve given above” would seem to me to include the bit about how Ed is starting to grow on voters, and how the polls are showing it.

    No?

    edit: This was a response to a comment from TRP which appears to be missing.

    [lprent: He probably deleted it. It can be done in the editing window. ]
    • Te Reo Putake 13.1

      12 February 2013 at 2:31 pm

      I replied in the wrong place, felix, and deleted it. It’s now a bit further down the page.

      And in answer to your question, a qualified yes. Both leaders are starting to gain some small traction in the preferred PM polls, but both have a long way to go. In terms of the UK poll support for Labour, it really has a lot to do with voter disgust with both the other parties, rather than anything Miliband is doing. But then, its probably easier to gain support in a 3 way, FPP contest where the other 2 parties form the current Government than it is in a 7 way MMP contest. In the UK situation, Labour is the default depository of the anti-coalition vote, though UKIP are also hurting the Tories by taking the important taxi driver, white van man and Little Englander vote.
14. Colonial Weka 14

    12 February 2013 at 2:11 pm

    NRT gets blogpost title of the week:

    “Labour: As useless as a proverbial useless thing”

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/02/labour-as-useless-as-proverbial-useless.html
15. vto 15

    12 February 2013 at 3:24 pm

    A pondering… one tane huna and meself just had another ding dong over when someone becomes a hater rather than a person with simply a different view.

    When does someone become a hater? You know, like a hater of homosexuals. A hater of old white men. A hater of the yellow peril. A hater of pakeha. When? Because as far as I can see there remain so many issues where there is blanket hypocrisy e.g. supporting of separate institutions… is this bigotry of a form? Or is it not? Or another example, supporting of inclusive institutions … is it this that is a form of prejudice? Or does it depend on what side of the political specturm your view apparently stems from according to political fashion of the day?

    When does racism exist? When does ageism exist? When does any form of bigotry exist? It is such a mish-mash of varying rules and determinants that it renders so many of these accusations and labels empty and useless. There is no consistency. Or is there? Where is it? Who has it?
16. joe90 16

    12 February 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Who woulda thunk it.

    http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/02/11/study-confirms-tea-party-was-created-big-tobacco-and-billionaires
17. Pascal's bookie 17

    12 February 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Anyone care to argue that Shearer handled this well?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10864924

    Never mind! He’s getting Better!!

    Except he’s not.

    How hard is it to respond to a bunch of bigited crap from a NZ First idiot without saying ‘Muslims would riot if he said it over there’. ffs.
    • felixviper 17.1

      12 February 2013 at 4:22 pm

      Jeebers. The actual words he used are worse than your summary.

      The worst part is that he was quoted alongside Peters, Key, Banks and Harawira and he still looks a tool in comparison. ffs indeed.
      • McFlock 17.1.1

        12 February 2013 at 4:42 pm

        Peters saying there’s an element of truth? Sheesh.

        Nice chuckle at Banks’ describing someone else as “crazy” and “bizarre”.

        Harawira had the best response I reckon, and the journos in the lobby chat with Key on tv1 website basically led him to the desired lines.
        • felixviper 17.1.1.1

          12 February 2013 at 4:55 pm

          Yeah I liked that too, and Banks’ weirdness.

          Peters’ response ain’t far from what Shearer said really. All that stuff about how the muslims would turn violent if you said that in the middle east etc, that’s pretty much just another way of saying there’s an element of truth to it.
          • McFlock 17.1.1.1.1

            12 February 2013 at 5:01 pm

            I disagree. Peters was saying that there was an element of truth that muslim males pose a significant risk to air transport (when apparently Boeing batteries are more dangerous). Basically the only non-Muslim terrorist he knew of was McVeigh.

            Shearer was simply pointing out that sometimes cartoons can clock off riots in the MidEast.
            • Pascal's bookie 17.1.1.1.1.1

              12 February 2013 at 5:02 pm

              But Shearer should know that cartoons that insult the prophet have sparked riots. This is not like that. All he did was reinforce that those crazy Muslims riot at the drop of a hat over there in wogistan.
              • McFlock …

                12 February 2013 at 5:10 pm

                Firstly, I should point out that the cartoon reference was mine, not Shearer’s. Shearer referred to the Middle East.

                I’m sure that the cartoon-related riots were the only incidents of civil disorder from North Africa to the Indus in the past decade.
        • gobsmacked 17.1.1.2

          12 February 2013 at 5:14 pm

          But this perfectly illustrates Shearer’s problem. He’s hopeless at politics.

          I am quite certain that David Shearer the person – the guy who has worked in all those places, alongside so many people of different faiths, ethnicities etc – would be genuinely offended by Prosser’s comments. He’s thinking “What a racist sh*t”.

          But Shearer the politician thinks he has to second-guess and run it by whoever the handlers are and generally dilute and diminish his own real response. He condemns, but … as always, with qualifiers. Every time he speaks, he qualifies.

          According to NRT he couldn’t even say that he wouldn’t have Prosser in his team. But I bet he wouldn’t have Prosser in his team … he’s just been brainwashed into thinking he mustn’t say so. Or say anything that would interfere with the Sleepwalk Strategy.

          FFS David, stop this. You lose both ways. The liberals and left only think less of you, the so-called centre (conservatives?) just think you’re a wimp.
          • McFlock 17.1.1.2.1

            12 February 2013 at 5:21 pm

            Projection.
            Just because you or I think in obscenities it doesn’t mean Shearer does.

            And did KEY say Prosser couldn’t be in HIS government? If Shearer had said it he would be arrogant and delusional. He doesn’t so he gets flak. Key doesn’t, not a whisper. Shearer’s already losing both ways, right here.
            • gobsmacked 17.1.1.2.1.1

              12 February 2013 at 5:42 pm

              *bangs head on desk*

              Shearer can’t determine what Key says. Or what the media say about what Key says. But (and this really, really isn’t hard …) –

              Shearer can determine what HE says. Jessica Mutch asked him a question. It wasn’t a fair question, it was a “Gotcha” if you like, but if Shearer can only cope with what’s fair, he should quit politics right now.

              Do you seriously have any difficulty in deciding on the spot how to answer a question about standing Prosser down? Of course you don’t. Nor do I. Nor would anybody with an ounce of political smarts.

              He is lost.

              [lprent: I am getting concerned about your head banging. Is there anything we can do to help? 😈 Personally at present I find that standing directly in front of te aircond….]
              • McFlock …

                12 February 2013 at 5:54 pm

                Who in the blogosphere has criticised key for not ruling prosser out of government, was my point. But it seems to be a drumbeat against the guy the drum-circle seem to think will never be IN government, anyway.

                Mutch with a gotcha? What are you referring to? The only searches I’ve found that quote Shearer are print – got a link? Or am I to wait for 6pm?
                • felixviper …

                  12 February 2013 at 6:20 pm

                  He couldbe in govt McF, but he’s doing his darndest to avoid it so far.
                  • McFlock …

                    12 February 2013 at 6:30 pm

                    Which still means issuing statements about who he’d govern with is arrogant to the point of delusion. Or it’s a serious omission by a probable future prime minister. Damned both ways.
                    • gobsmacked …

                      12 February 2013 at 6:47 pm

                      He doesn’t have to issue statements. He simply has to respond to questions. Exactly what he’ll be required to do in the election campaign, without benefit of minders 24/7.

                      For the Twitter reaction, here’s a good starting point:

                      https://twitter.com/publicaddress

                      The relevance here is that this is part of a consistent pattern. Shearer is not faced with a tough challenge, condemning Prosser. But he can only deal with the prepared line (Stage 1), not follow-ups (Stage 2). That tells us a lot about both his political instincts, and his underlying principles. Both are found wanting, frequently.

                      There’s no “drum beat” from many of those (like Russell Brown) who were annoyed on Twitter. The idea that Shearer’s critics are only a Standard few is a delusion.
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 6:52 pm

                      Yeah, on current polling it probably would be arrogant.

                      But that’s where he should be now: Being taken seriously as a contender for the top job, articulating an alternate vision for the country, describing the kind of govt he’ll lead.

                      @gobsmacked: I’m sure it’s just a one-off stumble, he won’t be like this all the time, he’s stared down warlords, his media training will kick in any day now, he’s only like this when there are cameras or people around etc etc.
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 6:57 pm

                      fuck twitter – where’s the interview with the gotcha question you’re talking about?

                      @FV:
                      At the moment he’s not. And if Labour were polling 55%, people here would be calling him arrogant and jumped up.
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 7:37 pm

                      Meh, can’t really argue with what you reckon people would say given this or that.
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 7:45 pm

                      You could point out how my characterisation is completely inconsistent with the measured and rational tone with which issues are logically discussed whenever Shearer’s name is mentioned. Good luck with that.
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 8:01 pm

                      Yes, it’s getting quite difficult to criticise anything Shearer (or Labour) says without inviting quite irrational and emotional responses from certain commenters here.
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 8:10 pm

                      You’d have a point if “mad barking at contrived slights” counted as “criticism”.
                    • felixviper …

                      12 February 2013 at 8:31 pm

                      Oh I think there’s been plenty of decent criticism. You’re bound to get a bit of mad barking when all the decent criticism goes so unheeded for so long though.
                    • McFlock …

                      12 February 2013 at 9:24 pm

                      chicken and egg syndrome again, I guess
      • Colonial Viper 17.1.2

        12 February 2013 at 4:50 pm

        Trust the process and get on side guys, no more of this whining like bellyachers, victory will be ours in 2014!
    • bad12 17.2

      12 February 2013 at 4:36 pm

      Cannot see anything wrong with the Shearer comment myself, if such a story became a feature of news in many of the Arab Muslim countries there is a likelihood of demonstrations being provoked…
18. Scintilla 18

    12 February 2013 at 4:55 pm

    @vto

    I thought you wound up that little ding dong rather well!

    Seems like the ground is always shifting as to what’s ‘a different opinion ‘ and what’s ‘enter derogatory name here’. I get fed up with the race to label someone and box them into a place where they have no choice but to hold their ground. What do you (as in anybody) want – to “win the contest” ? Have a frank exchange of views? Learn something? Bring someone round to your point of view? If you want to alter someone’s perception, giving them no option but to defend themselves at all costs results in a ‘not achieved.’

    It’s interesting how one’s own views get challenged in unexpected ways. A couple of years ago, I was in a large workplace where I was one of the 5% minority by ethnicity and gender. That place fractured in ways I never expected, much of it was destructive, cut-throat and detrimental to the people it was meant to serve. It was very ugly and a timely warning that greed, ambition and egotism reside everywhere. And that for me is the crux of the matter – the best ideals can be subverted by ugliness.

    I like authenticity. Where the walk matches the talk.

    I’m very fond of the word ‘and’. Like, I think there’s room in the Labour Party for Louisa Wall AND John Tamihere. Personally, neither is my cup of tea, but both voices need to be heard. Room in the Green Party for Russel Norman AND David Cunliffe – yeah, I know, in my dreams.
    • vto 18.1

      12 February 2013 at 6:50 pm

      Indeed, thanks for the feedback. You are especially right about the race to pigeonhole someone and the effect, often cumulative, that that has on healthy debate and inclusiveness – it does the opposite, as it did. For no gain.

      This entire issue around pigeonholing and labelling and hypocrisy is on the watch list …..
    • Tim 18.2

      13 February 2013 at 12:10 am

      Well he was (DC I mean) frolicking/engaging with a few Green Party types on the Rainbow Warrior today so ….. funnier things have happened at sea
19. marsman 19

    12 February 2013 at 4:55 pm

    Been trying to find an online copy of Tom Scott’s cartoon of Steven Joyce sicking a turtle onto Novopay in Sat 9 Feb DomPost. Stuff have conveniently not shown it, nor is it on their Tom Scott page. It’s sad/funny and spot on. Can anyone supply a link please?
20. bad12 20

    12 February 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Rob Oram, one of my favorites when commenting on either business or economics got around to being really circumspect when discussing the Mainzeal collapse on His regular RadioNZ National nine to noon spot today,

    Rob got as far as pointing out that RichinaPacific the Richard Yan investment vehicle which was the majority shareholder in the collapsed Mainzeal had been de-listed from the New Zealand share-market
    along with Mainzeal and RichinaPacific was then registered in the Bahamas,(a known tax haven),

    Here’s one for Rob, and would tend to suggest RichinaPacific in the guise of a company registered in an extremely low tax jurisdiction being the depository for the monies from Mainzeal construction being a vehicle for claiming losses in a higher taxed jurisdiction,

    December 2012, Revenue Minister, (the Hairdo from Ohariu), Peter Dunne publicly announces that He will be closing the loophole in the New Zealand tax laws which allows multi-national companies to declare losses in New Zealand and ship the profits off-shore to be declared in a low tax inviroment,

    December 2012,Jenny Shiply along with a number of others quit the board of Mainzeal Construction…
    • geoff 20.1

      13 February 2013 at 1:15 pm

      He’s rod oram not rob oram. And yes, he is very good.
21. Bully Bully 21

    12 February 2013 at 5:58 pm

    If Johnny smart arse had worked in NZ for any great length of time before his need for greed completely took over and became Shylock he might have a small idea as to what NZ is loosing thru his tight wad policies
22. Treetop 22

    12 February 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Crown Law spent $441,000 fighting Susan Couch suing corrections; as if the woman has not been through enough already nearly dying. RNZ put in an OIA request.
    • alwyn 22.1

      12 February 2013 at 6:47 pm

      Yes and the awful affair has been going on since 2005!
      It appears to have been settled only because the Corrections department got a new boss.
      For a change I am on the side of Garth McVicar on this one.
23. lprent 23

    12 February 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Ok. Starting to get close. Two bugs, one (minor) enhancement, and a occasional repaint issue to go on the project. At 32 months, one product already released, a heart attack, and more than 4500 revisions in svn – I might be able to slow down from coding for a while and actually write some posts….

    I’m sure that politicians will be looking forward to that. 😈
    • RedLogix 23.1

      12 February 2013 at 9:43 pm

      svn = makes life worth living

      But congrats … I never picked up on what the project was but I imagine it’s been all consuming. In my own technical space I’ve been pretty committed and full on myself this last year or so… finally got to a decent break myself this week.

      But how the hell did you do all that and run this place too Lynn?
      • lprent 23.1.1

        13 February 2013 at 12:02 am

        Carefully

        Mostly over the last two years by steadily dropping everything that sucked up too much time. The Labour work I dropped. Effectively stopped writing posts and cut back on comments here, but maintained tech and moderation. Driving to work rather than buses/walking (saves about an hour a day but drops the exercise way back). And above all, using an iPad in bed for blogging and reading (kicked reading speed up by about 50%)

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