"I have been thinking that, once this conflict is over, the democratic world needs to find a way to encourage the formation of, and strengthening of democracies world wide.
One way to do that could be to have a trading block between democratic nations. Entry to that trading block could be requirements such as having free and democratic elections etc."
At the time I thought the idea was quite good. But I felt a bit frustrated because very few of us here have any influence at pushing "good ideas" to a level where they could have international effect.
"Speaking before the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, witnesses also pushed for an “Economic Nato”, or ENato – a trading bloc that would be made up of democratic countries with free-market systems"
I think that this sort of solution provides a non-military carrot and stick approach to encourage democracy and encourage countries to move away from oppressive dictatorship models because it becomes an existential threat for them not to do so.
"Speaking before the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, witnesses also pushed for an “Economic Nato”, or ENato – a trading bloc that would be made up of democratic countries with free-market systems"
Araud:I felt it when I was the French ambassador to the United Nations. I discovered there was resentment expressed by the ambassadors of the third world countries against the West.
There is a colonial past which is feeding some resentment. There is also the fact that the West is lecturing the rest of the world and using double standards very often. I'm quite aware that, after all, invading Ukraine is no more scandalous than invading Iraq in 2003. France opposed the invasion of Iraq by the US. But it's a good example of what you can call double standards.
I used to say, look at the military intervention of the US, and look at China in the last 30 years. There is no Chinese military intervention in the last 30 years. On the American side, you have a long list of military interventions.
So it's something that the West should take into account, maybe to change our behavior. But between us, I know that the Americans are not going to change their behavior. That's really part of their national character, believing they are the beacon of freedom in the world. I'm writing for a French weekly, which says that when you look at this war, from a Western point of view, we would be expecting every country to be on our side. But the Russians are greeted in some countries. Mr. Lavrov, for instance, was in New Delhi recently. He was greeted with smiles by the Indians. I'm not sure that Indians raised the issue of Ukraine. That's a good example. It's not only China. When you look at the votes, China, India, South Africa abstained in the UN General Assembly. And the West should really take this into account in its vision of the world.
With the war going so badly in Ukraine, the scenarios President Putin could claim as victorious or successful for Russia are rapidly diminishing and Putin’s political survival is now increasingly tied to the outcome of the conflict.
Modern warheads have a variable “dial-up” yield, meaning an operator can specify its explosive power, and a tactical weapon would be anywhere from a fraction of a kiloton to 50kt in strength. For a sense of scale, the weapon that destroyed Hiroshima was roughly 15kt.
So the Russians can select a warhead with a specific explosive power that matches accurately the size of the target they want to eliminate. This surgical strike capacity is tailor-made for situations in which Putin feels the need to stop a threat without escalating hostilities automatically. If he does use this option, damage could be limited to a relatively small region. Biden would have to decide on a suitably-geared response to avoid WWIII.
According to a comment I heard from Peter Zeihan (don't ask me where because I have been looking at quite a few of his podcasts) the use of tactical nukes, while not out of the question, is perhaps unlikely due to the strategic implications for Russia of such actions.
Besides any immediate responses from NATO, according to Zeihan, one of the strategic consequences would be every NATO country installing nukes pointing straight at Russia. So, for Russia, it would be NATO on steroids.
However, that also does depend on Putin having the foresight to see that possibility, and actually having the strategic consequences in his mind outweighing the tactical benefit of winning the conflict. Which is why Zeihan does not rule out the likelihood of Russia taking such action.
I imagine the immediate consequence of that sort of action would drive all NATO countries, including Germany, to take the step they are trying to avoid. That is, ceasing immediately all imports of Russian oil and gas.
Also, it might force China off the fence, as they would see that sort of action as definitely bad for business for them, as it would cause a major slowdown in world economies, and thus severely impact China’s own economy.
Yeah, good thinking. All that makes a lot of sense. Silo thinking in the Russian leadership is now the likely determinant of the outcome. Are they unified on the basis of paranoia? If not, dualism will kick in (if it hasn't already).
Those who side with Putin on the basis that autocracy is all Russia knows how to do in statecraft will maintain support for him. Those who want to bet on a more sophisticated future will try to create a pragmatic basis to preserve workable relations with the west & China.
Whether the latter group becomes sufficiently distinct via collaboration as to create an actual power divide in the Russian state depends on Putin's pragmatism – which has prevailed over his paranoia for most of his career.
It looks like the Russian Media are losing their shit over the sinking of the Moskva. That is despite the Russian government saying the sinking was due to a fire on board, not Ukrainian missiles. Their rhetoric is really amping up, to the extent that they used the "war" word and had to walk that back.
The Russian media are right about one thing though. It really is world war three now, with all the sanctions from around the world and arms being supplied to Ukraine from everywhere. It is just that everyone is trying to pretend that it isn't.
So in short Putin would conceivably deploy nuclear weapons specifically to avoid 'escalating hostilities"?…..that makes no logical sense what so ever….sounds more like straight out Fear Mongering.
Further…that piece of 'military analysis ' from Alajzeera you quote from fails to unpack or even mention the tactical reasons why Russia just didn't wipe out every Ukrainian tactical strong point with it's Heavy Bombers, and missiles.and then invade?…or for that matter, as the Russians are supposedly so ready to kill civilians, why they don't employ those tactics now that they are supposedly losing so badly?
Personally I found this a far more useful take from Alajzeera….
"The problem with a single story is not that it is necessarily false. Many of the media reports coming out of Ukraine are true. However, they ignore complexity and doing that distorts rather than explains the world, its conflicts and its contradictions. The media’s attempts to establish a single story of the conflict are about power, not truth. That’s why I find the coverage so disturbing. The reports are not news. They are morality tales posing as the news." https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/9/on-the-ukrainian-david-and-the-russian-goliath
You're not factoring in the military mind. Military commanders as chess players, I mean. Tactical nukes are a useful strategy in that game. If his army leaders sell Putin on a particular usage scenario, it's game on.
why Russia just didn't wipe out every Ukrainian tactical strong point with it's Heavy Bombers, and missiles and then invade?
You'd have to ask the Russian high command, eh? Tankies?
they ignore complexity and doing that distorts rather than explains the world
I totally agree. Journos trained in complexity science would be an improvement.
morality tales posing as the news
Been a driver of geopolitics ever since the christians masterminded that process many centuries ago…
Very much suspect that they didnt deploy the heavy bombers first because they were certain they could take Kiev by removing Zielinski and that they would face minimal resistance ergo there was nothing to be gained with a heavy bombing campaign.
Also, the considerable air defences in Ukraine now would probably take a lot of them down. That is why a lot of the air attacks on Ukraine now are from missiles from planes outside Ukraine.
OK, so say I agree with your analysis (which I don't) that still doesn't answer the question as to why they don't deploy those tactic's now?..the Ukrainian air defense systems are now pretty much gone…an example is that the Russians could have easily flattened the final Ukrainian defenses in Mariupol weeks ago through overwhelming strategic aerial bombardment (the defenders where/are cut off, isolated and surrounded, so a perfect target for that type of tactic) …why haven't they? why are they prepared to suffer military losses in this way?…maybe that is the question you should be asking yourself?
I would be interested to see your rationale for claiming their air defences are nearly gone. From the reports I have seen long range air defence systems have been shipping in from around Europe to augment the ones they already have. These systems are a major challenge for the Russian air force.
Also, it looks like Slovakia may donate its Mig 29s to Ukraine to augment the Ukranian air force, which I understand is still operating effectively. It may well be that Poland feels emboldened enough to donate theirs directly to Ukraine as a result.
I also expect that the US is training Ukrainians right now on Patriot systems, and that those could be deployed in Ukraine in the future.
They don't employ the tactics you suggest because you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Ukraine knew they were coming, likely expected bombers, and would have taken out a slew of them on day one.
Something about impartiality, poor misunderstood Russia, impartiality, big bad America, impartiality, we're all idiots and you are the font of knowledge, etc.
You are now trying to sell us the idea Russia's holding back. Is there no end to your mental gymnastics? Are the levelled cities not flat enough for you to land your nonsense on yet?
Go on, give us another link of Azov battalion, or maybe a list of US misadventure abroad, which somehow makes everything acceptable.
So just to be clear, you would have us believe that the Russians couldn't level to the ground the final small area's where the final defenders of Mariupol are surrounded to the ground if they so wanted?
You are the person trying to tell us Russia is misunderstood.
I say they're criminal, murderous, corrupt, and incompetent. Much like the USA, only the war crimes are on open display – not very smart either, are they.
So Russia's holding back. LOL. They got their ass kicked trying to take Kiev and now they're sucking their sore thumb and trying to intimidate the world with threats of nukes.
"You are the person trying to tell us Russia is misunderstood"…no I asked you a simple question that you either can't or won't answer..I assume that is because it doesn't fit into a false media fueled war narrative that you and many others on this site have allowed yourselves to blindly and willingly accept….ie, Ukraine can defeat or at least fight Russia to a standstill.
The Ukrainians are going to lose this war…that is just a fact, the sooner their leaders stop taking advice from the US, the UK and people like you and negotiate for peace with the Russians, the better for Ukraine and Ukrainians…of course I know what your predictable response to this will be….fight to the last Ukrainian!
I am no fan of Putin ( or Zelensky for that matter) I am just presenting some obvious facts…sorry that that offends you and others on this site…but there it is.
" fucking idiot"…"Conspiratorial twat"…"a blood thirsty apologist for war"…"your fascist friends"…" you are now a cheerleader for Russia's genocidal attack on Ukraine"..etc etc (and that is just today!!) that is all you people have got…which tells us all quite clearly that you have got nothing…because as usual you people always steer clear of answering specific questions.
Why are you even here on TS if you don't want a mature debate?…listen pal, if you can't debate me without resorting to angry playground behaviour, then please don't comment to me.
@Adrian Thornton. You are a blood thirsty apologist for war and the slaughter of civilians.
You always have been.
The same crimes committed in Syria by Assad and Putin are now being repeated in Ukraine.
As you have been a long time supporter of the genocide conducted by your fascist friends in Syria against the Syrian people. It is no surprise to me Adrian, that you are now a cheerleader for Russia's genocidal attack on Ukraine.
[In no way does your comment address Adrian Thornton’s comment @ 2.2, which made more than enough good points to debate. Instead of playing the ball you attacked the man.
Your accusations are beyond the absurd and I was going to ask you to provide evidence with 5 links for this specific accusation, for example:
As you have been a long time [sic] supporter of the genocide conducted by your fascist friends in Syria against the Syrian people.
However, you would just come back with more irrelevancies and another opportunity to push your ‘Syrian cause’. And it would create more work for the Mods.
It is Easter and I wish Peace upon the World. That seems wishful thinking, but at least I can help to keep the peace here on TS.
I googled praxillate & got no results. You could be the first person in history to defeat Google. Being that clever, you ought to be able to post a meaningful comment here this morning, eh? Give it a go.
Praxillation is your word Dennis. It is what you do here a lot. Your so called 'analysis' in which you post the reckons of this or that blogger whining about the government. A form of concern trolling but far more long winded.
While you got interesting things to say at times, I mostly skip posts with your name on them, because it's a massive waste of time. Yesterday was just one example of many where you'll spend all day arguing over nothing just to tie everyone else up with your obviously binary reckons.
I get the grammatical logic but it seems to be based on lack of comprehension of your terminology. Google:
waver between different opinions or actions; be indecisive
I usually comment decisively so am puzzled by this. If I don't have a definite opinion on something I will only comment if it seems appropriate as a response to what someone else has written. In which case I discuss the obvious competing interpretations that are relevant.
Binary reckons are normal in political commentary. They feature here regularly so I'm in excellent company when I use that framing.
So yeah, if you can't cope with nuance, I'm happy for you to not read what I write. All good.
My apologies for being very nuanced when I said, "You climb over your neighbour's fence and complain about their watchdog getting upset and attacking you. You can avoid the dog getting upset and biting you by not hopping over their fence."
My apologies for it being such a simple explanation. I see in the Herald, "Moskva sank on Thursday after an explosion and fire that Ukraine claimed was a successful missile strike, as the Kremlin accused Kyiv of targeting its citizens in sorties across the border."
I do understand there are complexities going back hundreds of years.
That won't preclude me making simple observations like, "What the fuck? You invade a country, kill lots of people, create massive destruction and you get pissed off when the attacked people target your citizens in sorties across the border?"
Could it be as simple as Russia finding their weapons and forces are not very good. If that failure rate and incompetence extends to a nuclear strike it will be all downhill for them,
Likelihood of usage of tactical nukes in Ukraine is being assessed at the top level of the US military establishment.
Perhaps they're taking Russia's word that they would.
The current edition of the Russian military doctrine—when compared to the national security strategy and military doctrine published in 1993—significantly lowers the threshold under which the use of nuclear weapons is permitted. While the 1993 doctrine allowed the first use of nuclear weapons only when the “existence of the Russian Federation” is threatened, the versions published since 2000 explicitly state that Russia “reserves the right to use nuclear weapons to respond to all weapons of mass destruction attacks” on Russia and its allies.
27. The Russian Federation shall reserve the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it and/or its allies, as well as in the event of aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy.
The decision to use nuclear weapons shall be taken by the President of the Russian Federation.
'Capitalist', 'Communist', 'Fascist', 'Islamist'. I don't care what 'ist label you stick on other human beings, it does not justify leveling cities and butchering children.
There is no excuse for this savagery.
…..Days into the war, an Auckland Hospital doctor travelled to Ukraine. She tells Nicholas Jones about being away from her young family, sleeping through air-raid sirens and helping a child with shrapnel in his brain.
….."I have turned into this crazy person who says 'Hello', and then says, 'How much money do you have? Can I have money towards this?'" says Rybinkina, who works with the Ukrainian health and defence ministries.
She hired a crane and trucks to search through rubble in the northern town of Borodyanka.
"They pulled out 26 bodies," she says.
"Every day is a crisis here."
…."Even if the war would stop today, to get Ukraine back on its feet, it's going to take decades. It was a very flourishing country, with beautiful people," says Veldhuijzen, who, between childcare and working at a local hospital, performs a key administrative role for Smart Medical Aid.
"They have been bombarded back decades, for no reason at all….
Russia-Ukraine war: Auckland doctor in war zone – 'They pulled out 26 bodies … every day is a crisis'
Economist views a political memoir through the lens of identity/class/racism:
Bridges’ ambiguity about his status is common. About half of those of Māori descent respond that they are also Pakeha (or some such) in the Population Census ethnicity question. There is a ‘descent’ question and also an ‘ethnicity’ question in the Census. The first is a question of fact (hence its relevance for electoral purposes), the second is a question of self-categorisation; we know that many New Zealanders vary their ethnicity in different circumstances.
Moreover, there is almost certainly no one alive today who is of sole-Māori descent. Anyone is absolutely entitled to say they are of sole-Māori ethnicity, but we are not entitled to take everyone of Māori descent as sole Māori; we insult many when we re-categorise them from their self-definition. Unfortunately, our statistical definitions are misleading.
The convention is that if one is of Māori descent or says that Māori is one of their ethnicities they are classified as ‘Māori’. Yet about half of them say their ethnicity is more complex than ‘sole Māori’. When we report statistics for Māori we are, in effect, using a race (i.e. descent) definition, something we need to be very cautious about.
It is equally cavalier to generalise about Māori as if they are a homogenous group with a unified view. (Equally true about most other categories, including economists.) Observe that the statistical quirk not only gives the impression of homogeneity but exaggerates the size of the Māori category for most purposes.
Bridges provides a nice account of his particular struggle: ‘Over time I began to feel I was too Māori to be Pakeha and too Pakeha to be Māori.
There are a couple of themes which led the sixteen-year-old to join National. Suppose he was working class. The ambiguity hardly matters, what was key was that he was aspiring; he would not be the only National Party leader with aspirations which involved class mobility.
But second, his positions on social issues are conservative (which was a factor in his loss of the leadership, for National is far more torn on the conservative-liberal social dimension than Labour). Perhaps it is not so surprising, given his father was a Baptist minister. Is that enough to explain the sign-up? Add that sixteen-year-olds often take positions which are a bit quirky, except this one has stuck to his.
Seems like an apt appraisal. Simon exemplifies the medial operator, pressured from both sides of a conventional binary. Three as an archetype of nature forces itself in between binaries. When it emerges into the subconscious of a political operator, the challenge is to differentiate from both conventional options, creating a third political category. Being conservative, young Simon chose to cloak his differentiation and seems to have done that well. Remains to be seen if he has freed himself sufficiently to empower in a novel context by trending more radical…
Excellent analysis of how social media is toxifying politics:
The “Hidden Tribes” study, by the pro-democracy group More in Common, surveyed 8,000 Americans in 2017 and 2018 and identified seven groups that shared beliefs and behaviors.
The one furthest to the right, known as the “devoted conservatives,” comprised 6 percent of the U.S. population. The group furthest to the left, the “progressive activists,” comprised 8 percent of the population.
The progressive activists were by far the most prolific group on social media: 70 percent had shared political content over the previous year. The devoted conservatives followed, at 56 percent.
These two extreme groups are similar in surprising ways. They are the whitest and richest of the seven groups, which suggests that America is being torn apart by a battle between two subsets of the elite who are not representative of the broader society.
What’s more, they are the two groups that show the greatest homogeneity in their moral and political attitudes. This uniformity of opinion, the study’s authors speculate, is likely a result of thought-policing on social media: “Those who express sympathy for the views of opposing groups may experience backlash from their own cohort.”
In other words, political extremists don’t just shoot darts at their enemies; they spend a lot of their ammunition targeting dissenters or nuanced thinkers on their own team. In this way, social media makes a political system based on compromise grind to a halt.
@ Redlogix….I thought you told me to "fuck off"…so how about you take your own advice and not comment to or about me in future please, you have nothing constructive to say or add to the conversation and analysis around the Ukraine that I can see…and you obviously think the same about me, so let's just leave it that shall we.
[You’re often too quick to draw your gun and shoot [at] your perceived enemy, who may or may not treat or threaten you with the same contempt or violence – it doesn’t seem to matter much.
Unfortunately, your 10-min window of opportunity closed without any further corrective action from you. Hence this Mod note.
Today, I give you one warning to keep your comments as impersonal as possible to prevent you from adding more fuel to the flames of your ongoing moral warfare against others here. You have demonstrated that you’re eminently capable of posting solid comments with good debating points and without any personal attacks aimed at others here. Obviously, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the content is not controversial nor that it will receive broad agreement or acceptance here. But that’s the nature of robust debate here on TS.
Unless instructed otherwise by Mods and within reason, anybody is free to respond to anybody here on TS.
This is your one warning. Happy Easter and happy commenting – Incognito]
I deleted it because I did not want to complicate your moderation. I know from long experience how irritating that is. If not I would have let it stand.
Maybe you should ban me as well; it would be worth it tbh.
I know that you know that Mods can read trashed comments in the backend, but I wanted to let you and others know anyway that I appreciated your decision, which indeed made it a little easier for me as Mod to try and ‘keep the peace’ here. I’d like to think that we all want less angry argy-bargy and more robust convo/debate.
FWIW, lately, your comments have been up & down, but when you’re up, you’re really up there, in my opinion. I won’t dwell on the downs other than to say that I hope they will pass
"robust debate" that is exactly what I am here for, I love it….hardly much point in talking endlessly on TS with people whom I mainly agree with, that's what my friends are for.
It used to be, that the good thing about the "robust debate" that I would often have here on TS, was that I would learn quite a bit from many considered and thoughtful 'opponents' and would get my arse kicked here and there if I went in unprepared, which (believe it or not) I actually really appreciated…for a dummy like me it was a great way to learn the subtle (and not so subtle) art of robust debate.
However I have noticed that since Trump, that 'considered and thoughtful' element has become less and less (I know I can be quite adversarial at times, so I accept and acknowledge my own part in this decline) until here we are…it seems like this war in the Ukraine has finally broken a good many Standard regulars IMO…many are now just openly hostile all the time, and often seem to be seething with anger and indignation at even the slightest push back, differing view or competing analysis.
Can you imagine how long a list would be, if I lined up, one after another, all the ad hominem, straight out swearing, dirt and vile directed at me over the past two or three months?…I would do it, but why bother, it doesn't interest or effect me at all, and you have probably seen it all (or most of it) yourself anyway…but it's all a bit sad that it has come all the way down to this.
Anyway that's my bit…Happy Easter to you too.
…..I see that DB Brown (predictably) has just made my point quite succinctly.
in the history of TS, telling someone to fuck off isn't that big a deal. Neither is calling them names in the context of making political points (reference Lynn's posts, but he also does educational abuse). Point being, from my perspective it's not really the name calling, it's the energy it is done with.
The other point is that it's very difficult to control other people's behaviour online. I'm curious if you have tried just ignoring people where the communication has broken down? Let them say stupid shit, and you stay focused on the politics and find the best ways to express your political opinion?
I agree with you about the learning from considered opponents. Seek them out, the ones who aren't being dickheads, and find the ways to talk with them. This improves the debate culture too.
TS has changed, and things are more tense now, people more reactive (I think this is true generally). It's an intense time to be alive, and it's going to get more intense. I'm not following the war debates, I only read enough to keep an eye on moderation. But I think it's bigger than this war, the tenseness.
I still see a huge value to TS, especially as I spend a lot of time on twitter, and there are so many people there that simply don't know how to have an argument, and who resort to trying to undermine the person rather than pull apart their position. I'm grateful here we still know what debate is, and that there are people who are willing to put the time into getting it right. It's a crucial skill now.
Point being, from my perspective it's not really the name calling, it's the energy it is done with.
Just wanted to finish that thought. The issue is if it's going to escalate and get out of hand, and derail the debate. If people are more tense now, then name calling or swearing has more impact than it used to. People's tolerances are lower.
Same with telling someone to fuck off. It can be light, or serious, or it can be part of the new intolerance. I'm generally less interested in people's reaction than I am in the sense they make with their argument. Does it make sense to me? Is there any ground upon which to debate? If not, why bother responding?
Another aspect of this is how social media rewards people for being clever dicks. I see it much more on twitter, not sure about how much it is here.
There's someone on twitter who responded to something I said about Elon Musk's attempt to buy twitter outright. They basically ran some stupid arse right wing talking points that has very little to do with what I said. ie they used my tweet for their rhetoric.
I was tempted to tweet back "Elon Musk is a dickhead, and so apparently are you". Which would have been somewhat satisfying, but in really what is the point? What are we trying to do here? Feel clever? Feel better about ourselves? Stop feeling so shit about the world by scoring points online?
So the question there is what do people want from taking part in debate on TS? For me it's about learning what I think, and keeping myself engaged with people who think differently because it makes life more interesting, and it makes the world safer. I'm also committed to social change and I think debate is part of that. Critical thinking skills need exercised too.
Making a dismissive quip to a stranger on twitter pales compared to that, and I think undermines it.
Weka has already made many excellent points, some of which I was going to cover as well.
When you refer to Trump, you’re covering a period here on TS of 5-6 years. A lot has changed here during this time, including Authors, Mods, and commenters. We have also changed individually, not just the external world such as TS – you have changed too. In addition, and paraphrasing a proverb, we live in interesting times. Our lives are filled with more tension, thanks to the media and all the stuff happening here in NZ and elsewhere in the world. If we cannot maintain a healthy emotional distance and balance we get sucked down a vortex of vitriol or down a drain of despair.
Robust debate can help us make sense of the world. It can help restore some balance and trust and anchor us in the knowledge that we’re not alone in this and that together we can do better, understand better, and support each other. I think that even more important is to have meaningful conversations and make genuine connections with others, as they’re foundational to our communities and society aka the fabric of our society. Or we can fight each other.
Debating is hard, it requires skill and patience (aka time). Controversial topics make it even harder to have a healthy debate. Which is why we need commenters to bring their A-game here for it to succeed and even then there’s no guarantee. Ideally, commenters bring the best out in each other. In contrast, personal insults and attacks, for example, tend to bring out the worst in others.
After a good debate, just as after a good game of sports, we should be able to sit down together and have a good chat & laugh over a hot or cold drink, amicably or at least civil, with some mutual respect. With some of the reoccurring behaviours by a small group of regulars here I cannot imagine this ever happening in real life and this has nothing to do with geographical location or anonymity. I think this negative vibe oozes through some of the discussion threads and drags these down.
Before we post a comment we should ask ourselves whether it might have a positive effect on the discussion or not. If the answer is “no”, or even a possible “no”, then maybe we should reconsider our comment, e.g. the language and/or the content. Otherwise, what would be the point if it is not constructive debate but merely a reflexive insult or worse, a predetermined attack?
I’m past feeling sad or whatever about what has been happening on TS and past feeling sad about what seems to be happening here now more frequently. I will try to steer commenters away from counter-productive personal insults and attacks, especially when they make no obvious political point at all, and if that doesn’t work I will moderate. Ideally, we all lift our game here and self-correct and self-moderate.
Seems like a virtuous circle. Govt issues policy based on Te Tiriti, opponents hire lawyers, GDP gets a boost in consequence, Minister of Finance gets the confidence of business that he is operating a growth-based economy as per prescription.
The Government is starting to splash the Three Waters cash. Applications open to councils this week for the first $500 million slice of the $2 billion funding pie. It's called the 'better off' package.
"It's to support local government to look towards other areas of obligations to fund because they've been constrained by their balance sheet," Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta said.
The agreement has Worboys – who heads a group of 32 mayors opposing the reforms – lawyering up.
A part of the deal has been slammed as a gag order. It states that councils who get the cash "must not at any time do anything which could have an adverse effect on the reputation, good standing or goodwill of the Department of Internal Affairs or the Government".
National leader Christopher Luxon suggested the clause was problematic. "If you do take the money then you sure as can't criticise the Government, it does feel like a gag order."
In a statement, the Department of Internal Affairs told Newshub "no clause in the Funding Agreement… prevents or prohibits any council from publicly expressing its own views".
Looks like a three-way stoush with dissident mayors vs DIA & govt. Supreme Court, here we come.
This mess has been described to Newshub by an official as "a bit of untidiness" because there was meant to be an assurance about the clause in a letter that went to mayors. For whatever reason, that disappeared.
Orwellian moves can easily be glossed as untidy, eh? So the recipients are either assured or not assured (if you prefer a binary framing) or somewhere in between (if you prefer a triad). Schrodinger's clause, we could call it…
The answer to the question who was the first Maori nominated for an Oscar has changed.
It's now Estelle Merle O'Brien Thompson (who claimed to be from Tasmania so no one would suspect she was "coloured"). She acted under the name Merle Oberon (clearly embarrassed to have Irish ancestry).
She was born in Bombay/Mumbai to a British father, her mother had Sinhalese/Maori ancestry).
The campaign to get rid of Black Ferns rugby coach Glenn Moore reached its goal today. Only after the crucifixion does he get to say have his say.
One of the players suffered a mental breakdown on last year's end of year tour to England and France after alleged critical comments from him.
"Moore pushed back against those allegations.
I did not agree with the allegations she made, and they were misleading. The post provided no context and unfairly and inaccurately represented me as a coach and a person. My values and beliefs were called into question, and it was very disappointing not only to me but also to my family.
I am fervently hoping this macabre practise is fake news. Beneath my contempt for either side to do this.
Ukraine scanning faces of dead Russians, then contacting their mothers
The West's solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalise on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers' parents, she said, is "classic psychological warfare" and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts.
"If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, 'Oh, my God, that's barbaric,' " she said. "And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: 'Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?' "
Clearview AI's chief executive, Hoan Ton-That, told The Washington Post that more than 340 officials across five Ukrainian government agencies now can use its tool to run facial recognition searches whenever they want, free of charge.
Clearview employees now hold weekly, sometimes daily, training calls over Zoom with new police and military officials looking to gain access. Ton-That recounted several "'oh, wow' moments" as the Ukrainians witnessed how much data – including family photos, social media posts and relationship details – they could gather from a single cadaver scan.
It doesn't say they are sending the pictures of the dead to the mothers – It is letting them know the fate of those listed as MIA/ deserted/ and confirming the RF's KIA. I imagine also it gets harder for Russophile's to parrot the RF's lies regarding their casualties.
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
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On the 10th of April in "Open Mike" I wrote:
"I have been thinking that, once this conflict is over, the democratic world needs to find a way to encourage the formation of, and strengthening of democracies world wide.
One way to do that could be to have a trading block between democratic nations. Entry to that trading block could be requirements such as having free and democratic elections etc."
At the time I thought the idea was quite good. But I felt a bit frustrated because very few of us here have any influence at pushing "good ideas" to a level where they could have international effect.
However, I was pleasantly surprised to see that this very concept is being thought about at level where it could be picked up at an international level.
From the article:
"Speaking before the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, witnesses also pushed for an “Economic Nato”, or ENato – a trading bloc that would be made up of democratic countries with free-market systems"
I think that this sort of solution provides a non-military carrot and stick approach to encourage democracy and encourage countries to move away from oppressive dictatorship models because it becomes an existential threat for them not to do so.
I reckon they'd need a proviso they trade between each other in goods not made via exploiting other countries/people/environments/lax laws.
Otherwise it's just another corporate structure screwing those not in the inner circle.
"Speaking before the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, witnesses also pushed for an “Economic Nato”, or ENato – a trading bloc that would be made up of democratic countries with free-market systems"
Says it all !!
If there is an Asian NATO, Europeans are not going to be part of it: former French ambassador to UN
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202204/1259302.shtml
Likelihood of usage of tactical nukes in Ukraine is being assessed at the top level of the US military establishment. There's a short appraisal here… https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/15/russian-nuclear-weapons-explained-retired-general-newday-berman-vpx.cnn
And the context for usage is assessed here: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/4/6/the-spectre-of-tactical-nuclear-weapons-use-in-ukraine
So the Russians can select a warhead with a specific explosive power that matches accurately the size of the target they want to eliminate. This surgical strike capacity is tailor-made for situations in which Putin feels the need to stop a threat without escalating hostilities automatically. If he does use this option, damage could be limited to a relatively small region. Biden would have to decide on a suitably-geared response to avoid WWIII.
According to a comment I heard from Peter Zeihan (don't ask me where because I have been looking at quite a few of his podcasts) the use of tactical nukes, while not out of the question, is perhaps unlikely due to the strategic implications for Russia of such actions.
Besides any immediate responses from NATO, according to Zeihan, one of the strategic consequences would be every NATO country installing nukes pointing straight at Russia. So, for Russia, it would be NATO on steroids.
However, that also does depend on Putin having the foresight to see that possibility, and actually having the strategic consequences in his mind outweighing the tactical benefit of winning the conflict. Which is why Zeihan does not rule out the likelihood of Russia taking such action.
I imagine the immediate consequence of that sort of action would drive all NATO countries, including Germany, to take the step they are trying to avoid. That is, ceasing immediately all imports of Russian oil and gas.
Also, it might force China off the fence, as they would see that sort of action as definitely bad for business for them, as it would cause a major slowdown in world economies, and thus severely impact China’s own economy.
Yeah, good thinking. All that makes a lot of sense. Silo thinking in the Russian leadership is now the likely determinant of the outcome. Are they unified on the basis of paranoia? If not, dualism will kick in (if it hasn't already).
Those who side with Putin on the basis that autocracy is all Russia knows how to do in statecraft will maintain support for him. Those who want to bet on a more sophisticated future will try to create a pragmatic basis to preserve workable relations with the west & China.
Whether the latter group becomes sufficiently distinct via collaboration as to create an actual power divide in the Russian state depends on Putin's pragmatism – which has prevailed over his paranoia for most of his career.
It looks like the Russian Media are losing their shit over the sinking of the Moskva. That is despite the Russian government saying the sinking was due to a fire on board, not Ukrainian missiles. Their rhetoric is really amping up, to the extent that they used the "war" word and had to walk that back.
The Russian media are right about one thing though. It really is world war three now, with all the sanctions from around the world and arms being supplied to Ukraine from everywhere. It is just that everyone is trying to pretend that it isn't.
So in short Putin would conceivably deploy nuclear weapons specifically to avoid 'escalating hostilities"?…..that makes no logical sense what so ever….sounds more like straight out Fear Mongering.
Further…that piece of 'military analysis ' from Alajzeera you quote from fails to unpack or even mention the tactical reasons why Russia just didn't wipe out every Ukrainian tactical strong point with it's Heavy Bombers, and missiles.and then invade?…or for that matter, as the Russians are supposedly so ready to kill civilians, why they don't employ those tactics now that they are supposedly losing so badly?
Personally I found this a far more useful take from Alajzeera….
"The problem with a single story is not that it is necessarily false. Many of the media reports coming out of Ukraine are true. However, they ignore complexity and doing that distorts rather than explains the world, its conflicts and its contradictions. The media’s attempts to establish a single story of the conflict are about power, not truth. That’s why I find the coverage so disturbing. The reports are not news. They are morality tales posing as the news."
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/9/on-the-ukrainian-david-and-the-russian-goliath
no logical sense
You're not factoring in the military mind. Military commanders as chess players, I mean. Tactical nukes are a useful strategy in that game. If his army leaders sell Putin on a particular usage scenario, it's game on.
why Russia just didn't wipe out every Ukrainian tactical strong point with it's Heavy Bombers, and missiles and then invade?
You'd have to ask the Russian high command, eh? Tankies?
they ignore complexity and doing that distorts rather than explains the world
I totally agree. Journos trained in complexity science would be an improvement.
morality tales posing as the news
Been a driver of geopolitics ever since the christians masterminded that process many centuries ago…
Very much suspect that they didnt deploy the heavy bombers first because they were certain they could take Kiev by removing Zielinski and that they would face minimal resistance ergo there was nothing to be gained with a heavy bombing campaign.
That miscalculation put them in a tactical bind.
Also, the considerable air defences in Ukraine now would probably take a lot of them down. That is why a lot of the air attacks on Ukraine now are from missiles from planes outside Ukraine.
OK, so say I agree with your analysis (which I don't) that still doesn't answer the question as to why they don't deploy those tactic's now?..the Ukrainian air defense systems are now pretty much gone…an example is that the Russians could have easily flattened the final Ukrainian defenses in Mariupol weeks ago through overwhelming strategic aerial bombardment (the defenders where/are cut off, isolated and surrounded, so a perfect target for that type of tactic) …why haven't they? why are they prepared to suffer military losses in this way?…maybe that is the question you should be asking yourself?
I would be interested to see your rationale for claiming their air defences are nearly gone. From the reports I have seen long range air defence systems have been shipping in from around Europe to augment the ones they already have. These systems are a major challenge for the Russian air force.
For instance, Slovakia has just sent S300 long range air defence systems. The Ukranians are very familiar with these systems.
Also, it looks like Slovakia may donate its Mig 29s to Ukraine to augment the Ukranian air force, which I understand is still operating effectively. It may well be that Poland feels emboldened enough to donate theirs directly to Ukraine as a result.
I also expect that the US is training Ukrainians right now on Patriot systems, and that those could be deployed in Ukraine in the future.
Also, the Moskva that has just sunk was a major asset for the Russians for air defence in the South. That ship had a lot of S300 long range air defence to provide support to the Russian forces in the area.
The fact that they have lost that now makes it safer for the Ukranian air force to attack in that area themselves.
They don't employ the tactics you suggest because you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Ukraine knew they were coming, likely expected bombers, and would have taken out a slew of them on day one.
Something about impartiality, poor misunderstood Russia, impartiality, big bad America, impartiality, we're all idiots and you are the font of knowledge, etc.
You are now trying to sell us the idea Russia's holding back. Is there no end to your mental gymnastics? Are the levelled cities not flat enough for you to land your nonsense on yet?
Go on, give us another link of Azov battalion, or maybe a list of US misadventure abroad, which somehow makes everything acceptable.
So just to be clear, you would have us believe that the Russians couldn't level to the ground the final small area's where the final defenders of Mariupol are surrounded to the ground if they so wanted?
World’s Most Powerful Combat Aircraft Jet Engine Is Back In Production For Russia’s New Bombers
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37426/worlds-most-powerful-combat-aircraft-jet-engine-is-back-in-production-for-russias-new-bombers
You are the person trying to tell us Russia is misunderstood.
I say they're criminal, murderous, corrupt, and incompetent. Much like the USA, only the war crimes are on open display – not very smart either, are they.
So Russia's holding back. LOL. They got their ass kicked trying to take Kiev and now they're sucking their sore thumb and trying to intimidate the world with threats of nukes.
Fuck Putin and his psychopath fan club.
"You are the person trying to tell us Russia is misunderstood"…no I asked you a simple question that you either can't or won't answer..I assume that is because it doesn't fit into a false media fueled war narrative that you and many others on this site have allowed yourselves to blindly and willingly accept….ie, Ukraine can defeat or at least fight Russia to a standstill.
The Ukrainians are going to lose this war…that is just a fact, the sooner their leaders stop taking advice from the US, the UK and people like you and negotiate for peace with the Russians, the better for Ukraine and Ukrainians…of course I know what your predictable response to this will be….fight to the last Ukrainian!
I am no fan of Putin ( or Zelensky for that matter) I am just presenting some obvious facts…sorry that that offends you and others on this site…but there it is.
'because it doesn't fit your narrative'
You want Ukraine to surrender because Russia's got bombers. That's your narrative.
They've got enough nukes to destroy the world too. You should go there and prostrate yourself before them.
And after Ukraine's surrendered, what then, genius?
Genius. Sorry, I meant fucking idiot.
‘Some obvious facts’ – again think you got secret info we’re not privy to. Conspiratorial twat.
[Chill or you go into the chiller compartment with the other fizzy stuff – Incognito]
Mod note
" fucking idiot"…"Conspiratorial twat"…"a blood thirsty apologist for war"…"your fascist friends"…" you are now a cheerleader for Russia's genocidal attack on Ukraine"..etc etc (and that is just today!!) that is all you people have got…which tells us all quite clearly that you have got nothing…because as usual you people always steer clear of answering specific questions.
Why are you even here on TS if you don't want a mature debate?…listen pal, if you can't debate me without resorting to angry playground behaviour, then please don't comment to me.
Fuck off muppet. If you want to whine about the names I called you it was 'fucking idiot' and 'conspirational twat'.
Add all that other shit I've a mind to take you on for slander.
And I'm not your pal.
[Way too much aggro, so into the chiller with you until after the Easter weekend; you’d been warned – Incognito]
Mod note
Why are you even here on TS if you don't want a mature debate?
Genuine leftists are reluctant to abandon the field to cryptofascists. What you imagine is mature debate falls well short.
@Adrian Thornton. You are a blood thirsty apologist for war and the slaughter of civilians.
You always have been.
The same crimes committed in Syria by Assad and Putin are now being repeated in Ukraine.
As you have been a long time supporter of the genocide conducted by your fascist friends in Syria against the Syrian people. It is no surprise to me Adrian, that you are now a cheerleader for Russia's genocidal attack on Ukraine.
[In no way does your comment address Adrian Thornton’s comment @ 2.2, which made more than enough good points to debate. Instead of playing the ball you attacked the man.
Your accusations are beyond the absurd and I was going to ask you to provide evidence with 5 links for this specific accusation, for example:
However, you would just come back with more irrelevancies and another opportunity to push your ‘Syrian cause’. And it would create more work for the Mods.
It is Easter and I wish Peace upon the World. That seems wishful thinking, but at least I can help to keep the peace here on TS.
Banned for a week – Incognito]
Mod note
"This surgical strike capacity is tailor-made for situations in which Putin feels the need to stop a threat…"
That sounds sort of weird. You climb over your neighbour's fence and complain about their watchdog getting upset and attacking you.
You can avoid the dog getting upset and biting you by not hopping over their fence. There you go, threat averted. Is that it?
Why go for a simple explanation when you are considering a complex situation? Seems kinda irrational. So your analogy doesn't work.
Why don't you praxillate for three pages Mr Frank, enlighten us lowly peasants, again.
I googled praxillate & got no results. You could be the first person in history to defeat Google. Being that clever, you ought to be able to post a meaningful comment here this morning, eh? Give it a go.
Praxillation is your word Dennis. It is what you do here a lot. Your so called 'analysis' in which you post the reckons of this or that blogger whining about the government. A form of concern trolling but far more long winded.
While you got interesting things to say at times, I mostly skip posts with your name on them, because it's a massive waste of time. Yesterday was just one example of many where you'll spend all day arguing over nothing just to tie everyone else up with your obviously binary reckons.
It is your praxis to vacillate – praxillation.
praxis to vacillate – praxillation
I get the grammatical logic but it seems to be based on lack of comprehension of your terminology. Google:
I usually comment decisively so am puzzled by this. If I don't have a definite opinion on something I will only comment if it seems appropriate as a response to what someone else has written. In which case I discuss the obvious competing interpretations that are relevant.
Binary reckons are normal in political commentary. They feature here regularly so I'm in excellent company when I use that framing.
So yeah, if you can't cope with nuance, I'm happy for you to not read what I write. All good.
Waffle waffle waffle, smiley. Another masterpiece.
My apologies for being very nuanced when I said, "You climb over your neighbour's fence and complain about their watchdog getting upset and attacking you. You can avoid the dog getting upset and biting you by not hopping over their fence."
My apologies for it being such a simple explanation. I see in the Herald, "Moskva sank on Thursday after an explosion and fire that Ukraine claimed was a successful missile strike, as the Kremlin accused Kyiv of targeting its citizens in sorties across the border."
I do understand there are complexities going back hundreds of years.
That won't preclude me making simple observations like, "What the fuck? You invade a country, kill lots of people, create massive destruction and you get pissed off when the attacked people target your citizens in sorties across the border?"
Could it be as simple as Russia finding their weapons and forces are not very good. If that failure rate and incompetence extends to a nuclear strike it will be all downhill for them,
Perhaps they're taking Russia's word that they would.
The current edition of the Russian military doctrine—when compared to the national security strategy and military doctrine published in 1993—significantly lowers the threshold under which the use of nuclear weapons is permitted. While the 1993 doctrine allowed the first use of nuclear weapons only when the “existence of the Russian Federation” is threatened, the versions published since 2000 explicitly state that Russia “reserves the right to use nuclear weapons to respond to all weapons of mass destruction attacks” on Russia and its allies.
https://globalsecurityreview.com/nuclear-de-escalation-russias-deterrence-strategy/
29.06.2015
THE MILITARY DOCTRINE OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
[…]
27. The Russian Federation shall reserve the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other types of weapons of mass destruction against it and/or its allies, as well as in the event of aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy.
The decision to use nuclear weapons shall be taken by the President of the Russian Federation.
https://rusemb.org.uk/press/2029
'
'Capitalist', 'Communist', 'Fascist', 'Islamist'. I don't care what 'ist label you stick on other human beings, it does not justify leveling cities and butchering children.
There is no excuse for this savagery.
Economist views a political memoir through the lens of identity/class/racism:
Seems like an apt appraisal. Simon exemplifies the medial operator, pressured from both sides of a conventional binary. Three as an archetype of nature forces itself in between binaries. When it emerges into the subconscious of a political operator, the challenge is to differentiate from both conventional options, creating a third political category. Being conservative, young Simon chose to cloak his differentiation and seems to have done that well. Remains to be seen if he has freed himself sufficiently to empower in a novel context by trending more radical…
https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/the-ambiguity-of-labels
'Bridges provides a nice account of his particular struggle: ‘Over time I began to feel I was too Māori to be Pakeha and too Pakeha to be Māori."
Simple solution….be Simon Bridges.
"Simple solution….be Simon Bridges"…perfect answer.
Excellent analysis of how social media is toxifying politics:
@ Redlogix….I thought you told me to "fuck off"…so how about you take your own advice and not comment to or about me in future please, you have nothing constructive to say or add to the conversation and analysis around the Ukraine that I can see…and you obviously think the same about me, so let's just leave it that shall we.
[You’re often too quick to draw your gun and shoot [at] your perceived enemy, who may or may not treat or threaten you with the same contempt or violence – it doesn’t seem to matter much.
Unfortunately, your 10-min window of opportunity closed without any further corrective action from you. Hence this Mod note.
Today, I give you one warning to keep your comments as impersonal as possible to prevent you from adding more fuel to the flames of your ongoing moral warfare against others here. You have demonstrated that you’re eminently capable of posting solid comments with good debating points and without any personal attacks aimed at others here. Obviously, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the content is not controversial nor that it will receive broad agreement or acceptance here. But that’s the nature of robust debate here on TS.
Unless instructed otherwise by Mods and within reason, anybody is free to respond to anybody here on TS.
This is your one warning. Happy Easter and happy commenting – Incognito]
Why don’t you trash this comment on your own accord while you still can? RL trashed his, as you can tell, which was a wise move too.
Red trashed his comment within 29 seconds, which was long enough for AT to see red.
I deleted it because I did not want to complicate your moderation. I know from long experience how irritating that is. If not I would have let it stand.
Maybe you should ban me as well; it would be worth it tbh.
I know that you know that Mods can read trashed comments in the backend, but I wanted to let you and others know anyway that I appreciated your decision, which indeed made it a little easier for me as Mod to try and ‘keep the peace’ here. I’d like to think that we all want less angry argy-bargy and more robust convo/debate.
FWIW, lately, your comments have been up & down, but when you’re up, you’re really up there, in my opinion. I won’t dwell on the downs other than to say that I hope they will pass
Have a good Easter.
Mod note
"robust debate" that is exactly what I am here for, I love it….hardly much point in talking endlessly on TS with people whom I mainly agree with, that's what my friends are for.
It used to be, that the good thing about the "robust debate" that I would often have here on TS, was that I would learn quite a bit from many considered and thoughtful 'opponents' and would get my arse kicked here and there if I went in unprepared, which (believe it or not) I actually really appreciated…for a dummy like me it was a great way to learn the subtle (and not so subtle) art of robust debate.
However I have noticed that since Trump, that 'considered and thoughtful' element has become less and less (I know I can be quite adversarial at times, so I accept and acknowledge my own part in this decline) until here we are…it seems like this war in the Ukraine has finally broken a good many Standard regulars IMO…many are now just openly hostile all the time, and often seem to be seething with anger and indignation at even the slightest push back, differing view or competing analysis.
Can you imagine how long a list would be, if I lined up, one after another, all the ad hominem, straight out swearing, dirt and vile directed at me over the past two or three months?…I would do it, but why bother, it doesn't interest or effect me at all, and you have probably seen it all (or most of it) yourself anyway…but it's all a bit sad that it has come all the way down to this.
Anyway that's my bit…Happy Easter to you too.
…..I see that DB Brown (predictably) has just made my point quite succinctly.
in the history of TS, telling someone to fuck off isn't that big a deal. Neither is calling them names in the context of making political points (reference Lynn's posts, but he also does educational abuse). Point being, from my perspective it's not really the name calling, it's the energy it is done with.
The other point is that it's very difficult to control other people's behaviour online. I'm curious if you have tried just ignoring people where the communication has broken down? Let them say stupid shit, and you stay focused on the politics and find the best ways to express your political opinion?
I agree with you about the learning from considered opponents. Seek them out, the ones who aren't being dickheads, and find the ways to talk with them. This improves the debate culture too.
TS has changed, and things are more tense now, people more reactive (I think this is true generally). It's an intense time to be alive, and it's going to get more intense. I'm not following the war debates, I only read enough to keep an eye on moderation. But I think it's bigger than this war, the tenseness.
I still see a huge value to TS, especially as I spend a lot of time on twitter, and there are so many people there that simply don't know how to have an argument, and who resort to trying to undermine the person rather than pull apart their position. I'm grateful here we still know what debate is, and that there are people who are willing to put the time into getting it right. It's a crucial skill now.
Just wanted to finish that thought. The issue is if it's going to escalate and get out of hand, and derail the debate. If people are more tense now, then name calling or swearing has more impact than it used to. People's tolerances are lower.
Same with telling someone to fuck off. It can be light, or serious, or it can be part of the new intolerance. I'm generally less interested in people's reaction than I am in the sense they make with their argument. Does it make sense to me? Is there any ground upon which to debate? If not, why bother responding?
Another aspect of this is how social media rewards people for being clever dicks. I see it much more on twitter, not sure about how much it is here.
There's someone on twitter who responded to something I said about Elon Musk's attempt to buy twitter outright. They basically ran some stupid arse right wing talking points that has very little to do with what I said. ie they used my tweet for their rhetoric.
I was tempted to tweet back "Elon Musk is a dickhead, and so apparently are you". Which would have been somewhat satisfying, but in really what is the point? What are we trying to do here? Feel clever? Feel better about ourselves? Stop feeling so shit about the world by scoring points online?
So the question there is what do people want from taking part in debate on TS? For me it's about learning what I think, and keeping myself engaged with people who think differently because it makes life more interesting, and it makes the world safer. I'm also committed to social change and I think debate is part of that. Critical thinking skills need exercised too.
Making a dismissive quip to a stranger on twitter pales compared to that, and I think undermines it.
(not that I always refrain 😈)
Weka has already made many excellent points, some of which I was going to cover as well.
When you refer to Trump, you’re covering a period here on TS of 5-6 years. A lot has changed here during this time, including Authors, Mods, and commenters. We have also changed individually, not just the external world such as TS – you have changed too. In addition, and paraphrasing a proverb, we live in interesting times. Our lives are filled with more tension, thanks to the media and all the stuff happening here in NZ and elsewhere in the world. If we cannot maintain a healthy emotional distance and balance we get sucked down a vortex of vitriol or down a drain of despair.
Robust debate can help us make sense of the world. It can help restore some balance and trust and anchor us in the knowledge that we’re not alone in this and that together we can do better, understand better, and support each other. I think that even more important is to have meaningful conversations and make genuine connections with others, as they’re foundational to our communities and society aka the fabric of our society. Or we can fight each other.
Debating is hard, it requires skill and patience (aka time). Controversial topics make it even harder to have a healthy debate. Which is why we need commenters to bring their A-game here for it to succeed and even then there’s no guarantee. Ideally, commenters bring the best out in each other. In contrast, personal insults and attacks, for example, tend to bring out the worst in others.
After a good debate, just as after a good game of sports, we should be able to sit down together and have a good chat & laugh over a hot or cold drink, amicably or at least civil, with some mutual respect. With some of the reoccurring behaviours by a small group of regulars here I cannot imagine this ever happening in real life and this has nothing to do with geographical location or anonymity. I think this negative vibe oozes through some of the discussion threads and drags these down.
Before we post a comment we should ask ourselves whether it might have a positive effect on the discussion or not. If the answer is “no”, or even a possible “no”, then maybe we should reconsider our comment, e.g. the language and/or the content. Otherwise, what would be the point if it is not constructive debate but merely a reflexive insult or worse, a predetermined attack?
I’m past feeling sad or whatever about what has been happening on TS and past feeling sad about what seems to be happening here now more frequently. I will try to steer commenters away from counter-productive personal insults and attacks, especially when they make no obvious political point at all, and if that doesn’t work I will moderate. Ideally, we all lift our game here and self-correct and self-moderate.
And everything weka said.
Seems like a virtuous circle. Govt issues policy based on Te Tiriti, opponents hire lawyers, GDP gets a boost in consequence, Minister of Finance gets the confidence of business that he is operating a growth-based economy as per prescription.
But there's more!
Looks like a three-way stoush with dissident mayors vs DIA & govt. Supreme Court, here we come.
Orwellian moves can easily be glossed as untidy, eh? So the recipients are either assured or not assured (if you prefer a binary framing) or somewhere in between (if you prefer a triad). Schrodinger's clause, we could call it…
The answer to the question who was the first Maori nominated for an Oscar has changed.
It's now Estelle Merle O'Brien Thompson (who claimed to be from Tasmania so no one would suspect she was "coloured"). She acted under the name Merle Oberon (clearly embarrassed to have Irish ancestry).
She was born in Bombay/Mumbai to a British father, her mother had Sinhalese/Maori ancestry).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61079732
The campaign to get rid of Black Ferns rugby coach Glenn Moore reached its goal today. Only after the crucifixion does he get to say have his say.
One of the players suffered a mental breakdown on last year's end of year tour to England and France after alleged critical comments from him.
"Moore pushed back against those allegations.
I did not agree with the allegations she made, and they were misleading. The post provided no context and unfairly and inaccurately represented me as a coach and a person. My values and beliefs were called into question, and it was very disappointing not only to me but also to my family.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-glenn-moore-quits-as-black-ferns-head-coach-in-major-u-turn/22LHKAESCNTVXMQDGKAS6YZOEY/
I am fervently hoping this macabre practise is fake news. Beneath my contempt for either side to do this.
Ukraine scanning faces of dead Russians, then contacting their mothers
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300567505/ukraine-scanning-faces-of-dead-russians-then-contacting-their-mothers
Well, Russia's abandoning it’s dead so someone's got to do it.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-soldiers-revolting-as-they-get-stiffed-on-ukraine-payouts-according-to-intercepted-calls
It doesn't say they are sending the pictures of the dead to the mothers – It is letting them know the fate of those listed as MIA/ deserted/ and confirming the RF's KIA. I imagine also it gets harder for Russophile's to parrot the RF's lies regarding their casualties.
"Russia Says 1,351 Of Its Soldiers Have Died In Ukraine, Well Below Western Estimates"
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-death-toll-1351/31770672.html
25/03/22