Tom O'Connor's article in todays's Dominion Post is worth a read. After all the defence of freedom campers (those who leave their mess behind) on this website it was good to read another point of view. Namely, amongst other comments, why should small councils with a small ratepayer base be put under huge financial strain paying for tourism infrastructure. As he says, let the tourism industry pay for what it needs. And by being more selective, we can avoid holiday destinations being inundated with more people than is manageable.
I have not forgotten being in Oxford, England, many years ago and hearing from the local townspeople that they hated the tourist season there. A smallish town where the locals avoided the town centre during that time as it was completely overwhelmed with visitors.
Its probably more to do with the fact Nash made the comments, the real lefties here hate him with a passion . In the past there have been plenty here decry the cheap tourists shitting their way around nz.
and for the last 8 month its been kiwis that have been shitting their way around NZ.
🙂
and as someone said yesterday, quite a few Kiwis – the homeless ones live in cars and vans absent of anything better.
But i guess its easier to blame tourists that used to spend up to 10 grand here during their 3 month stay. Cause Kiwis would never shit in the woods when they can't find a public toilet, no siree, they would never, they shit in a bucket and wait till they get home to empty it in the potty there.
The insidious link here is that by allowing backpackers to live out of vans for their 12 month stay in New Zealand we have normalised living out of vans and cars. Someone camped on the side of the road isn't seen as a vagrant or homeless anymore, rather a positive contribution to the economy.
Oh come on..!…this is what nz'ers do all over the world ..travel on the cheap..get a grip..!..eh..?.. What is the actual problem..?..(save for the need to build a lot more public toilets…with a shower option..could be outside/cold water..)..lack of infrastructure is the problem..end of story…this scapegoating is both tiresome and xenophobic..
He didn't..and that was a stellar example of his ignorance on that issue..rental vans are the middle of the market..as others have pointed out most long-term young visitors buy a vehicle on arrival and sell it when they go…in the main they don't rent over-priced vans..so nash is way off the mark..hence the ridicule heaped on him..and yes..a lot of those freedom camping/living in camp grounds/moving around are homeless new zealanders..and yes..it may well be time for some political direct action on that front…and a homeless camp on the grounds of parliament..or some other high profile public space could well be an idea/option whose time is nigh….let's see how that would play in the international media..
I think quite a bit hinges on what is said on the 25th in the speech from the throne..if that shows they are going to do s.f.a. about what they promised to do..I reckon it will be all on…there really is no other option…and I will go and stand with them..
Central government should give local councils that deal with high numbers of tourists a grant towards infrastructure….with some of this earmarked for much better public toilet facilities at potential freedom camping locations.
I've been out and about lately and there is a distinct downturn in camper vans. But why should we socialise the cost of overseas tourists where a lot of the money is simply YOYo money. Comes in rents a vehicle profits go overseas, wages to limited term visa holders etc. Is it an industry worth having?
But I wonder if Nash's high end comments are based on those tourist operators being the only ones still complaining. For just standard type accommodation in the North Island it really pays to book ahead because the bulk of them are pretty busy. I struck one provincial town with a reasonable amount of accommodation with the house full sign out on a weekday night in August. No events on.
Nash was stating reality. The only market sector that will be travelling long haul for the foreseeable will be the top end because of cost of fares and insurance. It's going to take a long time before the mass market feels comfortable about cattle class.
The backpacker / freedom camper market has been in decline for last five years, probably peaked 2015. Then Covid came along and pretty much destroyed it.
Tom O'Connor wrote in the article cited above, "……a bucket of cold reality to many in the tourism industry.
The minister is the first in a long time to heed the many calls from throughout the country for the industry to be reeled in and reset to be less harmful to the New Zealand environment and less costly to taxpayers and ratepayers.
The minister made it very clear that he was looking at innovative ways to ensure taxpayers and ratepayers will not continue to pay for tourism’s impact on infrastructure and the environment. He was also clear that he was not closing New Zealand to those tourists who were not wealthy, but they will not be the target market and that every tourist that comes to New Zealand will pay for the New Zealand experience."
O'Connor's third paragraph is one that needs to be read by people involved in this debate.
Firstly, who pays for the litter, the damage to the environment, the increased need for infrastructure? Taxpayer, rates payer or the industry? By extension, should the trucking industry pay only part of the damage caused by its usage of our roads?
Is all this all another example of 'privatise the profits an socialise the costs'?
Secondly, Nash did not argue to exclude 'back-packing' tourists, the non-wealthy.
O'Connor is a former journalist, historian and author and an elected District Councillor. His views would be a better starter for discussions than points of view which misrepresent what Nash said, for example.
too many instant experts here made fools of themselves by attacking the messenger . just because it was said by someone the experts hate, they go off on tangents.
Thanks, woodart. You have simplified the issue. It is one of dislike of a politician clouding the arguments.
John Key said something about staying in government in his speech to the National Party AGM. The comments were about taking and holding the centre. He was good at that- and held power for nine years.
The fear amongst some commentators showing on this blog is that Labour will abandon the left to keep the centre. Therefore anything resembling centrist policies will be reviled by some; and centrist Labour politicians will be attacked.
The thing is that Labour's policies and actions are different from Key's centralism, though I'm sure that will be hotly contested.
For politics is the art of the possible. Some of our political commentariat have to understand basic rules of politics. Advocates for change don't obtain that by faulty reasoning, blame and personality attacks.
It's one thing to keep one's ideology pure and not be able to apply it by never getting into power. It's better to be more aware of where the electorate sits on issues and by showing it that change can be managed acceptably by the use of political power in government, keep the centre and thereby the power to make changes.
Key also had another reason to keep the centre happy. National party politics is about keeping power, especially keeping it away from the hands of reformers and the socially minded. For Key , and National, it's about that- exercise power for the advantage of 'their people'.
John Key telegraphed his fear. That Labour by holding the centre would hold power for several elections. This why he never went as far right as some wished to push him. He understands that hope for change is not a strategy. He understands loyalty and solidarity, focus and discipline.
After him, National lost that and like the All Blacks under pressure, the weak and the under-prepared, the glory boys and the unsuitable, cracked and lost.
We may celebrate with popping corks that fact that Goodfellow has been re-elected to National's presidency, that they seem not to have learnt the lessons of electoral defeat- but eventually they'll get it.
"Trust me," said Key during that speech. Trust is what got Labour there- trust in Ardern and good ministers, trust in wise decisions and actions, trust in Labour's basic good will.
Meh.
I live near a local tourist attraction. Can't see the appeal in it myself, but there are fools wandering around the street every day. It took the council years of complaints to put in a public toilet.
During all that time the attraction featured in all the tourism advertising the same council released to attract those visitors.
I'd have more sympathy for the "taxpayers and ratepayers" if they spent zero money causing the problem they don't want to clean up. Seriously, even for smaller councils how difficult is it to identify "brown spots" and bung in a portaloo?
Nash has a habit of being divisive, playing one group against another. He could give Police high tech gadgets to track people, but not put cameras on boats to monitor bycatch. Go figure.
I think you might have to explain as to how your second sentence supports your contention that Nash is divisive- which group is being played against which group in your example?
no, think you are being divisive. what the hell has cameras got to do with cheap tourists shitting in the waterways?grow up and stop attacking the messenger, read and THINK about the message
If they don’t prosecute tRump he'll travel the country holding divisive rallies to disrupt Biden’s presidency. His base will stick with him and he'll undermine incumbent Republicans who don’t actively spike Biden’s agenda.
Rudy's son was also at that press conference and he has just been diagnosed with Covid – was "Rudy's freakout flop sweat" also because he was ill with Covid?
If it was more recent than this, how about a linky with more information than just a statement from a Repug politician that has every incentive to be as deceptive as possible in order to sucker gullible idiots?
Funny, just looked at the link on my laptop and there is a lot less text than when I looked at it on my phone…. I had first seen this on ZeroHedge, but given the low regard it seems to be held in here I did a quick search and linked to a main stream media article (ABC)
Another article with more text that from memory is basically the same as I saw on the ABC27 article
Basics. Dominion had agreed to turn up to a meeting on Friday 20 Nov , to explain how their voting software was good, but pulled out at the last minute…
Did you ever ponder/wonder why ZeroHedge.com and readers of ZH are generally held in low regard here? Could it be that they are too lazy to do critical research, analysis, and thinking and they are all too happy to confirm their bias?
If you want to continue commenting here, I strongly suggest you lift your game. This is your warning – Incognito]
Looking for more info I googled dominion voting software hearing pennsylvania. The hits that came back are mostly from frankly nutso sites like The Epoch Times, Just The News, Rush Limbaugh and so on.
Just the appearance of the page your link goes to should raise big red flags, and sure 'nuff, USSA News is rated as another nutso source.
Meanwhile, a more-or-less rational look at the situation says:
A group of Republican lawmakers on Friday amplified a baseless conspiracy theory alleging a Venezuelan-backed effort to undermine the 2020 election by manipulating the software in one company’s voting machines to take votes from President Donald Trump.
Interim House State Government Committee Chairman Seth Grove called a press conference in the Ryan Office Building to chastise election system manufacturer Dominion Voting Systems for backing out of a public hearing scheduled for Friday.
Grove framed the company’s decision not to appear as an attempt to hide something, though the answers to many of the questions the Republicans claimed they needed from Dominion are already available on the Department of State’s website or are the purview of county elections officials.
So reading between the lines, it looks like Dominion worked out that this hearing wasn't going to be about factual information, but was a set-up for a nutso publicity stunt for rabid MAGAmorons to do something akin to an Oozy Giuliani performance.
He's a poor faith troll pretending to be someone he's not. Should be booted for deliberately spreading nonsense.
P.S. Pennsylvania now at that 80K lead I called early. But can't get an accurate figure of votes yet to count to see if it'll climb much. A friend had 100K. We got a six pack of cider riding on it, serious business indeed.
But he's a good example of how disinformation gets spread. So there's some merit in delving into the weeds and showing what kind of disinformation it really is. For lurkers that might be influenced, that is. Someone actually posting crap like that is likely too far gone to be turned around.
You just can't help yourself, can you? You just gotta be a misinformation spreader.
The uproar was about the Donnie Dotard maladministration's deliberate cruelty of family separations. Taking kids from their parents and not really much caring about keeping track of them. So the point of the kids in cages was that those kids had been forcibly separated from their families, in a policy of deliberate abusive cruelty.
The situation for the Obama administration was somewhat different. At that time, there were large numbers of unaccompanied kids turning up at the border.
Of the families that turned up, in a small number of cases it was assessed that kids were at risk of harm from their families and were separated for safety reasons, or because their parents were being prosecuted for serious crimes such as trafficking, with careful tracking to enable prompt reunification when it was safe to do so.
So some of the cages were indeed built by the Obama administration, for quite different reasons than the Spraytan Stalin put them to use for. Thereby creating the small nugget of truth that the best disinformation is built from.
Americans celebrate Thanksgiving in 5 days time. I wonder who Americans think they are supposed to be thanking and what they are thanking him, her, or they for? Perhaps this year, they can just take their pick and just find anything or anybody in their lives to thank and ignore the rest of reality.
I wonder who Americans think they are supposed to be thanking and what they are thanking him, her, or they for?
Murder, mayhem, cruelty, genocide, and 400 years of white supremacy?
In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared “A Day Of Thanksgiving” because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their “victory”, the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained on display for 24 years.
Covid19 will be just fine when Don Jr becomes aware C19 is a similar category of parasitic organism as itself. I believe the lawyers call it 'professional courtesy'.
In related news, at latest count there are seven Repug senators hosting Covid19, while only five have so far given any indication of acknowledging Biden won.
I am confused, sorry but I am confused. We have farmers and horticuturists calling out for the government to let seasonal workers from off-shore in to help them with the primary production work in NZ . We have people losing their jobs all over New Zealand because of the tourist market collapse and whatever. We have had visa’s being extended for people on visitor visas and 1 yr working holiday visas since covid hit and now we have this : “ Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has announced migrant workers will be eligible for emergency benefits under strict conditions.”
If they were really looking for work they would have come and helped me on my little farm. As many small farms and blocks like mine I advertise for short term helpers on The Backpackerboard.com and typically young backpackers travelling NZ drop in and help for 2 – 6 weeks depending on their program and mine. It’s been near impossible to find helpers this year – the first time so in 25 yrs . I guess because they have mostly found longer term employment.
No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work. Spend the money instead on a chartered flight to wherever they have come from. Send them home. It will be cheaper in the long run.
@ Janet..how much an hour do you pay those who 'help' you..?..or are you working the woofr-vein..and getting that help largely for free..?..if the latter..cry me a river..eh..?
Aren't you just another entitled 'small' farmer? Why the fuck should they help you? What do you give them? Other than a few meals and a bed. How magnanimous.
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs. It is a win win situation, not as you both above suggest, some kind of rip-off, and my visitor’s book is a 100% testimony to that. They get the opportunity to engage 24/7 with real kiwis at home and on the land and learn and experience a lot as well as having a place to rest a while from the tedium of continuous travelling. I get to enjoy a less insular life and they help me get through the work of the moment. With covid the annual influx has not arrived and those who were allowed to stay longer have got more permanent jobs by now.
So..@$20 per hr ..they do $500 worth of work…but you take that $500 p.w. as food and board…there are 'win win'ers and 'win win'ers ..eh..?..the whole woofing thing is exploitation writ large..of travellers trying to stretch their dollar…in a very expensive country…
My visitors book tells a totally different story – its not about $,s and exploitation at all. Its about sharing and caring . Its about incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening…… its about tears on leaving and staying in touch.
Well cry me a river. Lazy so and so's refuse to work for nothing aye. Need some gullible types who get to see the wonders of nature for the minimal fee of 25 hours labor.
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs.
Woofing is a work exchange situation, there are no wages involved. People work on organic farms in exchange for board and being taught skills.
It's a good scheme when it's done well, but it's not supposed to be comparable to waged work. It also operates with a degree of good will, so it's astounding to see a woofing host saying that non-residents should be sent home given woofing traditionally has been full of international travellers.
If farms depend on labour, then they should pay a decent rate to get employees who commit to work (woofing labour doesn't have this kind of commitment). If farms want to keep woofing as well, then they can make their situation attractive to Kiwis under covid border closures. I like the idea of farmers banding together to provide enough of a living for local workers, or those willing to travel for seasonal work.
In the farming sector the term WWOOFer has been generically used to describe a person who does work
in exchange for accommodation or board. However, legally these people are likely employees and must
be provided the protections afforded by New Zealand employment law.
This means these workers must be provided their minimum employment entitlements, such as at least
the minimum wage, holiday pay, payment of their wages in money and a written contract.
Under New Zealand employment law it is not the name of the scheme which is important, but the nature
of the relationship.
[…]
Can you pay a person with accommodation?
You cannot directly pay a person in accommodation only. Payment for work done must be in money.
The employer and employee are free to enter an accommodation arrangement and deduct from wages
the reasonable cost of the accommodation. Such agreements need to be in writing.
[…]
If they are doing this out of their own free will, why aren’t these people volunteers?
As ‘a person of any age employed by an employer to do any work for hire or reward under a contract
of service’, they fit the definition of an employee under the Employment Relations Act 2000.
The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an
accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer.
In addition, of course, to international backpackers usually not being on work visas, IRD would be wanting PAYE, and ACC would be after their cut, as well.
Janet, whatever your visitor book says, I hope you're checking visas.
yeah, IRD have had a look too from memory. Thing is, woofing isn't supposed to be merely a work for board scheme. It's supposed to be a learning exchange, where people can work on organic properties and learn skills specific to organic farming/gardening. Obviously there are farmers who abuse that and simply use it as a form of cheap labour, but I think the original intent is sound. If the govt shut down the scheme I guess growers could charge for training people and then offset that with accommodation and food. I'd prefer if the sector sorted its shit out and the govt gave support for the original intent. Covid seems an ideal opportunity for both.
"The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer."
That's backpacker businesses straight up using international visitors as cheap labour. Sometimes not even woofing, it's pretty common for tourism to use work for board arrangements. I'd be happy for the govt to intervene in that.
"Labour Inspectorate has since communicated these findings to the industry, and expects accommodation providers who have been engaging in this practice to now meet their obligations as employers"
Curious now how this has been followed up given that was in 2018.
And whether they've looked at the large scale hiring of international vistitors in tourism/hospo (and I would guess hort) of people without employment agreements and where low wages and poor work conditions are normal because the workers are essentially on holiday and happy to work whatever hours in between doing their holiday things.
That shit means large numbers of jobs are simply not available for locals who need steady income and decent conditions to work around things like kids, school, paying rent/utilities and so on. My understanding is that the labour dept haven't been looking at that terribly closely (who wants to have a pop at tourism?) but I'd love to know.
It's an issue that crosses a lot of boundaries. The big one is immigration – a holiday or student visa essentially rules out any "learning exchange". I used to work with a lot of international students, ISTR the maximum hours they could work was 20/wk.
But a longer term apprenticeship scheme might work, but then that would have to be the declared reason someone enters the country.
Immigration periodically pings workplaces for hiring people without work visas, but that's difficult to detect if they're being paid under the table unless you actually raid the place in person and see who is on site.
My impression is that there are already avenues for farmers to do this legitimately. Apprenticeships, short term employment, whatevs.
The WWOOF website Janet linked to seems to directly contradict the government view about whether the "volunteers" are actually employees. Any website doing something like that tingles my spidey-sense that something not entirely kosher is going on. That's beside the entire "work without actual pay" thing. Janet's actual outgoings for 25hrs a week labour are the food the "volunteer" eats and some tv/internet time. No tax, no ACC, no other compliance costs that other farmers with employees pay.
The departments of inland revenue, labour, and immigration might be interested in participants in that deal.
But beside that, your "helpers"/employees are essentially people who do not need money. You pay them in kind. Migrant workers aren't here for the joy of traipsing around NZ on the cheap – they want money. Often to send back home to people in need.
If you only need 25hr/wk, maybe join up with some other small farmers to turn it full time? And knock a bit off the fee for room & board? At least these workers will have work visas, unlike many backpackers.
I used to see these woofers dropped off at the intercity bus every day.
There was a hug, and then the owner walked away and you could see the cold steely glint in their eye as they anticipated the next sucker coming along to do slave labour for next to nothing.
Sure it is an experience for a 21 year old German on their OE, it is not an option for a kiwi trying to survive in this country.
And many of those so called organic farms are dairy farms with a small (maybe) organic patch of veges and the workers are out there milking totally non-organic cows.
But this 'sharing and caring … incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening' and 'tears on leaving and staying in touch.' becomes 'No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work.'.
The original intent has been long lost, this "scheme" is being used as justification in a number of ways that have no relationship to "organic farming" to get experience. While I was checking it out references to work as "night warden" to "receptionists" even one with "pilates" came up. While there may genuine use of it still it's clear it's being used to get free labour.
I think this is an ideal opportunity for younger folk and school leavers from the big smoke to experience their own backyard in a risk-free way. If I were younger, I’d want to do it myself! I assume to work at your little farm you have to be 18 years of age. I’m going to check out wwoof NZ; thank you for the link.
Yes , they have all left school and many are doing a "gap" year between leaving school and university. Most are under 30 and are travelling on NZ working holiday Visas. I do not take people with out visas. This year my grand-daughter took a gap year to travel to Europe to spend some time with her maternal family, but Covid struck. Instead she went woofing in NZ. Next year she starts university.
Had honestly never heard of woofering till today and this thread.
Looking at your link I can understand why people wouldn't mind doing that for a week or so, provided it is legit, and they are actually learning about nature.
Personally wouldn't as grew up just hanging out in the bush in the south island.
Would imagine there are some dodgy people offering it though. (Not you. As you seem to be honest)
You are bloody annoying. Let me put it in English for you, as McFlock has already done. Free means Free, given unconditionally. Your nonsense of 'free board given in exchange for labour' means that the board is NOT free if labour has to be given it exchange for it. Do you understand the English language?
'Woofering' would seem to me a good term for the semi-literate bullshit you have spouted.
The word 'free' has at least 42 different usages. Insisting that only one of them applies is a peculiar attempt at point scoring to say the least.
Most people enjoy woofing as part of the whole travel experience; they get to live and work in one place for a short period, which is often a lot more satisfying than just superficially travelling from place to place never really engaging with the local people.
They get to experience something they'd otherwise probably not access otherwise, and the farmer gets some labour in exchange. Woofing has been going on for yonks, although the internet has made it more popular and efficient in recent times. And there now are many variants of it in existence that have extended the concept much wider than just organic farming.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Well, look at the context of the conversation. I'm pretty sure the nautical terms don't apply to organic farming. Some of the political ones are also out – "not in slavery" seems to be a low bar. Similarly, I don't know what goes on at Janet's farm but any "licentious behaviour" would seem to be beside the point. So have a go at whittling those 42 down like a human who can parse everyday language.
Under-the-table transactions have been going on since Sumerian times. Many of them are fair enough between the parties concerned. But moaning that migrant workers stuck here shouldn't get the dole because they could work for "free" (sorry, "room and board") like backpackers is a joke.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Nice one RL. It's a rare person who never has a sour view, don't you think? Are those "some people here" by any chance the same people who "rarely have a good word to say about" your views on the value(s) of Capitalism and Marxism, the Black Lives Matter movement, whether the Covid-19 pandemic is "over", and the feasibility of certain hypothetical solutions to poverty, global warming, and ecological collapse?
For example, we disagree about the value of Dr Helen Caldicott's activism. You don't have a good word to say about her many (IMHO) positive contributions; indeed yours seems to be a rather sour view.
We do, however, agree on some things, e.g. that the way Assange is being treated is a perversion of justice. Sweet & sour sauce
The basic meaning of 'free' is an absolute, like 'unique'. Something is either free (or unique) or it is not. There is no corrupting 'rather free ' or 'quite free'.
Your 42 different usages are valid if they mean using the word as a verb (to liberate) for example, but Chris T was clearly using it in the sense of 'cost-free', and that is a straight absolute. I suspect that most of your so-called 42 usages are solecisms and barbarisms taken from some less than authoritative source.
This is basically an abuse of the English language by employers who call it ‘free’ board to make it sound better than it is. It is not free. The pay for their labour is simply ‘board plus money’.
Still doubting it's an upside down world…?..ardern announces a new river of corporate/housing welfare/money..nat spokesperson suggest some restrictions on that money to stop it further fuelling the housing bubble…and in the m.s.m. this morning all the usually tory pimps from industry etc come out against tory spokesperson…and fully in support of j.ardern and her promised river of corporate/housing welfare/money…(and if you pinch yourself…no you aren't dreaming/having a nightmare…this is the labour party ..in it's second term..doing this..)
why would someone bother to answer you. you can even understand the woofer setup , so expecting you to understand anything slightly complicated is foolish.
Could someone put up a link about the story at Newshub about the engineer who was on The Nation this morning about the concrete poured into a shaft at the Pike River Mine in 2011.
Former Prime Minister John Key has told National it needed to face facts and acknowledge the party’s own failings lost last month’s general election.
Speaking to a packed crowd at the Party’s annual meeting, in Wellington, he said: “We have to be honest enough to admit that our own failings played a part in our defeat.”
“I know it sounds hard, but it's true. If we don’t acknowledge that, if we don’t take responsibility for it, then we won’t learn from it,” Key said.
He urged the party to be more disciplined, and to stop leaking.
“If you can’t quit your leaking, here’s a clue, quit the party,” Key said.
Key was the special guest speaker at the meeting, and spoke alongside party president Peter Goodfellow and leader Judith Collins.
Goodfellow’s speech touched on the party’s failings – but focused heavily on some of the barriers he thought National faced from Labour and the media.
“Daily broadcasts became evangelistic – a form of gospel to the masses,” Goodfellow said, of the Government’s Covid-19 response.
“It was suddenly a crime for us to ask legitimate questions,” he said.
Well at least we will know what the agenda is, fish out all marine stocks completely (Goodfellow has been selling down his Sanford shares for years as he knows the time is near when they are all gone), and convert to dairy subsidised by a National government.
But yes, he seems to have lost the plot, so good for the left.
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These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8. The universe was ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
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Tom O'Connor's article in todays's Dominion Post is worth a read. After all the defence of freedom campers (those who leave their mess behind) on this website it was good to read another point of view. Namely, amongst other comments, why should small councils with a small ratepayer base be put under huge financial strain paying for tourism infrastructure. As he says, let the tourism industry pay for what it needs. And by being more selective, we can avoid holiday destinations being inundated with more people than is manageable.
I have not forgotten being in Oxford, England, many years ago and hearing from the local townspeople that they hated the tourist season there. A smallish town where the locals avoided the town centre during that time as it was completely overwhelmed with visitors.
Its probably more to do with the fact Nash made the comments, the real lefties here hate him with a passion . In the past there have been plenty here decry the cheap tourists shitting their way around nz.
and for the last 8 month its been kiwis that have been shitting their way around NZ.
🙂
and as someone said yesterday, quite a few Kiwis – the homeless ones live in cars and vans absent of anything better.
But i guess its easier to blame tourists that used to spend up to 10 grand here during their 3 month stay. Cause Kiwis would never shit in the woods when they can't find a public toilet, no siree, they would never, they shit in a bucket and wait till they get home to empty it in the potty there.
Can you show me where Nash lumped homeless in with tourists, ?
That's not to say I'm ok with homelessness.
They should all go camp on parliament grounds so kind caring Ardern has to actually look at them .
The insidious link here is that by allowing backpackers to live out of vans for their 12 month stay in New Zealand we have normalised living out of vans and cars. Someone camped on the side of the road isn't seen as a vagrant or homeless anymore, rather a positive contribution to the economy.
Nice little spot of social engineering there.
Nice view/take on the homeless there..eh..?
No, it's not a take on the homeless specifically. It's a take on what we have allowed our tourism/economy/values to become.
Oh come on..!…this is what nz'ers do all over the world ..travel on the cheap..get a grip..!..eh..?.. What is the actual problem..?..(save for the need to build a lot more public toilets…with a shower option..could be outside/cold water..)..lack of infrastructure is the problem..end of story…this scapegoating is both tiresome and xenophobic..
He didn't..and that was a stellar example of his ignorance on that issue..rental vans are the middle of the market..as others have pointed out most long-term young visitors buy a vehicle on arrival and sell it when they go…in the main they don't rent over-priced vans..so nash is way off the mark..hence the ridicule heaped on him..and yes..a lot of those freedom camping/living in camp grounds/moving around are homeless new zealanders..and yes..it may well be time for some political direct action on that front…and a homeless camp on the grounds of parliament..or some other high profile public space could well be an idea/option whose time is nigh….let's see how that would play in the international media..
Now is the time for direct action because you know Arden wont have them dragged out buy te heals like the nats would
I think quite a bit hinges on what is said on the 25th in the speech from the throne..if that shows they are going to do s.f.a. about what they promised to do..I reckon it will be all on…there really is no other option…and I will go and stand with them..
Like the Nats would? You think? lol
I understand the locals of not so small Barcelona feel the same….dont imagine theres many 'freedom campers' there.
Pat accommodation is very reasonably priced in Barcelona a night in a cheap hotel with clean sheets only NZ$25 but homelessness is a problem their to.
Central government should give local councils that deal with high numbers of tourists a grant towards infrastructure….with some of this earmarked for much better public toilet facilities at potential freedom camping locations.
I've been out and about lately and there is a distinct downturn in camper vans. But why should we socialise the cost of overseas tourists where a lot of the money is simply YOYo money. Comes in rents a vehicle profits go overseas, wages to limited term visa holders etc. Is it an industry worth having?
But I wonder if Nash's high end comments are based on those tourist operators being the only ones still complaining. For just standard type accommodation in the North Island it really pays to book ahead because the bulk of them are pretty busy. I struck one provincial town with a reasonable amount of accommodation with the house full sign out on a weekday night in August. No events on.
Nash was stating reality. The only market sector that will be travelling long haul for the foreseeable will be the top end because of cost of fares and insurance. It's going to take a long time before the mass market feels comfortable about cattle class.
The backpacker / freedom camper market has been in decline for last five years, probably peaked 2015. Then Covid came along and pretty much destroyed it.
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/backpacking-world-turned-upside-down
A large packpackers in Queenstown CBD sold this week and is going to be converted to high end accomodation.
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/discovery-lodge-bought-investor
…which is why a number of Southland and Otago residents avoid Queenstown like the plaque.
Which is a tad bizzare because they are just as much visitors as someone from Auckland, Sydney or Los Angeles.
No 'tourists' in town but it took 2 hours to get through Frankton last night because of the marathon crowd blocking up all the roundabouts.
Tom O'Connor wrote in the article cited above, "……a bucket of cold reality to many in the tourism industry.
The minister is the first in a long time to heed the many calls from throughout the country for the industry to be reeled in and reset to be less harmful to the New Zealand environment and less costly to taxpayers and ratepayers.
The minister made it very clear that he was looking at innovative ways to ensure taxpayers and ratepayers will not continue to pay for tourism’s impact on infrastructure and the environment. He was also clear that he was not closing New Zealand to those tourists who were not wealthy, but they will not be the target market and that every tourist that comes to New Zealand will pay for the New Zealand experience."
O'Connor's third paragraph is one that needs to be read by people involved in this debate.
Firstly, who pays for the litter, the damage to the environment, the increased need for infrastructure? Taxpayer, rates payer or the industry? By extension, should the trucking industry pay only part of the damage caused by its usage of our roads?
Is all this all another example of 'privatise the profits an socialise the costs'?
Secondly, Nash did not argue to exclude 'back-packing' tourists, the non-wealthy.
O'Connor is a former journalist, historian and author and an elected District Councillor. His views would be a better starter for discussions than points of view which misrepresent what Nash said, for example.
too many instant experts here made fools of themselves by attacking the messenger . just because it was said by someone the experts hate, they go off on tangents.
Thanks, woodart. You have simplified the issue. It is one of dislike of a politician clouding the arguments.
John Key said something about staying in government in his speech to the National Party AGM. The comments were about taking and holding the centre. He was good at that- and held power for nine years.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300164537/sir-john-keys-speech-a-chilling-glimpse-into-the-future-for-national
The fear amongst some commentators showing on this blog is that Labour will abandon the left to keep the centre. Therefore anything resembling centrist policies will be reviled by some; and centrist Labour politicians will be attacked.
The thing is that Labour's policies and actions are different from Key's centralism, though I'm sure that will be hotly contested.
For politics is the art of the possible. Some of our political commentariat have to understand basic rules of politics. Advocates for change don't obtain that by faulty reasoning, blame and personality attacks.
It's one thing to keep one's ideology pure and not be able to apply it by never getting into power. It's better to be more aware of where the electorate sits on issues and by showing it that change can be managed acceptably by the use of political power in government, keep the centre and thereby the power to make changes.
Key also had another reason to keep the centre happy. National party politics is about keeping power, especially keeping it away from the hands of reformers and the socially minded. For Key , and National, it's about that- exercise power for the advantage of 'their people'.
John Key telegraphed his fear. That Labour by holding the centre would hold power for several elections. This why he never went as far right as some wished to push him. He understands that hope for change is not a strategy. He understands loyalty and solidarity, focus and discipline.
After him, National lost that and like the All Blacks under pressure, the weak and the under-prepared, the glory boys and the unsuitable, cracked and lost.
We may celebrate with popping corks that fact that Goodfellow has been re-elected to National's presidency, that they seem not to have learnt the lessons of electoral defeat- but eventually they'll get it.
"Trust me," said Key during that speech. Trust is what got Labour there- trust in Ardern and good ministers, trust in wise decisions and actions, trust in Labour's basic good will.
Meh.
I live near a local tourist attraction. Can't see the appeal in it myself, but there are fools wandering around the street every day. It took the council years of complaints to put in a public toilet.
During all that time the attraction featured in all the tourism advertising the same council released to attract those visitors.
I'd have more sympathy for the "taxpayers and ratepayers" if they spent zero money causing the problem they don't want to clean up. Seriously, even for smaller councils how difficult is it to identify "brown spots" and bung in a portaloo?
Nash has a habit of being divisive, playing one group against another. He could give Police high tech gadgets to track people, but not put cameras on boats to monitor bycatch. Go figure.
"Go figure", you say. I can't.
I think you might have to explain as to how your second sentence supports your contention that Nash is divisive- which group is being played against which group in your example?
Police/Public with no permission from Cabinet.. and Fishing Industry/Environmentalists Just IMO.
no, think you are being divisive. what the hell has cameras got to do with cheap tourists shitting in the waterways?grow up and stop attacking the messenger, read and THINK about the message
tick tock…
https://twitter.com/ejeancarroll/status/1329852436899655681
Let's take another moment to enjoy the deliciousness of Rudy's freakout flop sweat as he looks down the barrel of treason and sedition.
And another moment to enjoy the power of the Trumps disintegrating before our eyes.
There's only one way America's ever going to save face from all this, throw them all in jail for a long long time.
If they don’t prosecute tRump he'll travel the country holding divisive rallies to disrupt Biden’s presidency. His base will stick with him and he'll undermine incumbent Republicans who don’t actively spike Biden’s agenda.
Lock him up!
New York State district attorneys are looking at him right now 🙂
Rudy's son was also at that press conference and he has just been diagnosed with Covid – was "Rudy's freakout flop sweat" also because he was ill with Covid?
Speaking of disintegration;
Might need to slow down you plans….things just went a little off track in Pennsylvania.
"…..On the heels of Gov. Tom Wolf unilaterally decertifying every voting machine in the Commonwealth, "
When did this decertification happen?
Was it this one back in April 2018?
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/Documents/Voting%20Systems/Directives/Directive%20to%20Vendors_2018_Apr%202%20Final.pdf
If it was more recent than this, how about a linky with more information than just a statement from a Repug politician that has every incentive to be as deceptive as possible in order to sucker gullible idiots?
Don't Know. Article did not state.
Funny, just looked at the link on my laptop and there is a lot less text than when I looked at it on my phone…. I had first seen this on ZeroHedge, but given the low regard it seems to be held in here I did a quick search and linked to a main stream media article (ABC)
Another article with more text that from memory is basically the same as I saw on the ABC27 article
Basics. Dominion had agreed to turn up to a meeting on Friday 20 Nov , to explain how their voting software was good, but pulled out at the last minute…
[You have made the same assertion twice under different Posts (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21-11-2020/#comment-1767486 and https://thestandard.org.nz/trumps-chances-of-winning-the-presidential-election-through-legal-action/#comment-1767434) and both times you were asked for evidence in the form of a link. If you are too lazy to verify the ‘facts’ that you’re spreading here or elsewhere, you run the risk of becoming a super spreader of mis- and/or dis-information, wittingly or unwittingly. However, ignorance is no excuse.
Did you ever ponder/wonder why ZeroHedge.com and readers of ZH are generally held in low regard here? Could it be that they are too lazy to do critical research, analysis, and thinking and they are all too happy to confirm their bias?
If you want to continue commenting here, I strongly suggest you lift your game. This is your warning – Incognito]
Looking for more info I googled dominion voting software hearing pennsylvania. The hits that came back are mostly from frankly nutso sites like The Epoch Times, Just The News, Rush Limbaugh and so on.
Just the appearance of the page your link goes to should raise big red flags, and sure 'nuff, USSA News is rated as another nutso source.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ussa-news/
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/07/websites-post-fake-satirical-stories/
Meanwhile, a more-or-less rational look at the situation says:
So reading between the lines, it looks like Dominion worked out that this hearing wasn't going to be about factual information, but was a set-up for a nutso publicity stunt for rabid MAGAmorons to do something akin to an Oozy Giuliani performance.
He's a poor faith troll pretending to be someone he's not. Should be booted for deliberately spreading nonsense.
P.S. Pennsylvania now at that 80K lead I called early. But can't get an accurate figure of votes yet to count to see if it'll climb much. A friend had 100K. We got a six pack of cider riding on it, serious business indeed.
Indeed.
But he's a good example of how disinformation gets spread. So there's some merit in delving into the weeds and showing what kind of disinformation it really is. For lurkers that might be influenced, that is. Someone actually posting crap like that is likely too far gone to be turned around.
I assumed ABC was mainstream, between my memory and the tone of their other articles… my bad trusting ABC
It happens. sort of like the photos of the kids Trump was keeping in cages, that tuned out to be taken while Obama was president..
You just can't help yourself, can you? You just gotta be a misinformation spreader.
The uproar was about the Donnie Dotard maladministration's deliberate cruelty of family separations. Taking kids from their parents and not really much caring about keeping track of them. So the point of the kids in cages was that those kids had been forcibly separated from their families, in a policy of deliberate abusive cruelty.
The situation for the Obama administration was somewhat different. At that time, there were large numbers of unaccompanied kids turning up at the border.
Of the families that turned up, in a small number of cases it was assessed that kids were at risk of harm from their families and were separated for safety reasons, or because their parents were being prosecuted for serious crimes such as trafficking, with careful tracking to enable prompt reunification when it was safe to do so.
So some of the cages were indeed built by the Obama administration, for quite different reasons than the Spraytan Stalin put them to use for. Thereby creating the small nugget of truth that the best disinformation is built from.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/23/trump-falsely-says-obama-started-family-separation/1540733001/
See my Moderation note @ 5:59 PM.
Sorry about that. What i had in mind was the NZherald article
Different assertion, different link (required). Please keep up.
You changed the topic to cages. I hope this wasn’t a diversion attempt because it certainly gives off that vibe and comes across as doubling-down 🙁
Americans celebrate Thanksgiving in 5 days time. I wonder who Americans think they are supposed to be thanking and what they are thanking him, her, or they for? Perhaps this year, they can just take their pick and just find anything or anybody in their lives to thank and ignore the rest of reality.
Murder, mayhem, cruelty, genocide, and 400 years of white supremacy?
In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which is our Thanksgiving celebration. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared “A Day Of Thanksgiving” because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their “victory”, the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of “thanksgiving” to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts — where it remained on display for 24 years.
http://tlio.org.uk/1637-pequot-massacre-%E2%80%8Bthe-real-story-of-thanksgiving/
pffffffft … you want to do massacres, this is how they're done.
And these are just the ones that got written down in the historic record by someone.
"pffffffft" – what a puny massacre. All relative (and rather abstract), unless you're on the receiving end.
Of the 'top' 30 genocides listed here, 27 of them occurred in the last 120 years.
See also genocides, mass killings, and war crimes – not for the faint-hearted.
What if trump asks the Turkey for a pardon?
And will the Turkey give it?
The Turkey’s reply: Get Stuffed!!
Thankful that Trump lost the election.
Hmmm. I suppose we can all be thankful that institutionalised barbarism in the U.S. is not as bad today as it was four hundred years ago.
Was it ever figured out who leaked to Nicky Hager for the Hollow men?
Also Sir John doesn't like leaking.
Sadly Covid 19 has tested positive for Don Jr.
Best wishes and a speedy recovery to C19
Covid19 will be just fine when Don Jr becomes aware C19 is a similar category of parasitic organism as itself. I believe the lawyers call it 'professional courtesy'.
In related news, at latest count there are seven Repug senators hosting Covid19, while only five have so far given any indication of acknowledging Biden won.
The paternal reaction seems a little heartless …
I am confused, sorry but I am confused. We have farmers and horticuturists calling out for the government to let seasonal workers from off-shore in to help them with the primary production work in NZ . We have people losing their jobs all over New Zealand because of the tourist market collapse and whatever. We have had visa’s being extended for people on visitor visas and 1 yr working holiday visas since covid hit and now we have this : “ Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has announced migrant workers will be eligible for emergency benefits under strict conditions.”
If they were really looking for work they would have come and helped me on my little farm. As many small farms and blocks like mine I advertise for short term helpers on The Backpackerboard.com and typically young backpackers travelling NZ drop in and help for 2 – 6 weeks depending on their program and mine. It’s been near impossible to find helpers this year – the first time so in 25 yrs . I guess because they have mostly found longer term employment.
No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work. Spend the money instead on a chartered flight to wherever they have come from. Send them home. It will be cheaper in the long run.
@ Janet..how much an hour do you pay those who 'help' you..?..or are you working the woofr-vein..and getting that help largely for free..?..if the latter..cry me a river..eh..?
'helping'?
aka slavery
Aren't you just another entitled 'small' farmer? Why the fuck should they help you? What do you give them? Other than a few meals and a bed. How magnanimous.
Who do you 'help'?
They work in exchange for full free board, in a comfortable house. Their work is calculated at the going minimum wage rate per hr rate – The woofer association asks for 28 hrs a week in exchange and I ask for 25hrs. It is a win win situation, not as you both above suggest, some kind of rip-off, and my visitor’s book is a 100% testimony to that. They get the opportunity to engage 24/7 with real kiwis at home and on the land and learn and experience a lot as well as having a place to rest a while from the tedium of continuous travelling. I get to enjoy a less insular life and they help me get through the work of the moment. With covid the annual influx has not arrived and those who were allowed to stay longer have got more permanent jobs by now.
So..@$20 per hr ..they do $500 worth of work…but you take that $500 p.w. as food and board…there are 'win win'ers and 'win win'ers ..eh..?..the whole woofing thing is exploitation writ large..of travellers trying to stretch their dollar…in a very expensive country…
My visitors book tells a totally different story – its not about $,s and exploitation at all. Its about sharing and caring . Its about incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening…… its about tears on leaving and staying in touch.
Well cry me a river. Lazy so and so's refuse to work for nothing aye. Need some gullible types who get to see the wonders of nature for the minimal fee of 25 hours labor.
You sound terribly hard done by.
So 20 dollars an hour is nothing now?
OK
Chris, it's plain you can't follow a thread but you could at least try to keep up.
“for full free board in a comfortable house.” In case your eyes, as I have long suspected, skip inconvenient bits.
I take it you are being stupid to just start an argument, but work out what "free board" means.
And get it doesn't mean they have to pay for it out of their wages.
It's not "free" if it's in exchange for work.
Forgive me if I want to see proof of this McFlock
Other than you denying what the word free means
Read the damned thread.
edit: damn replied to the wrong comment
Let me put it in english.
Someone gets free board, in exchange for the opportunity of working in a job that pays this much.
This seriously can't be that hard to get.
Free:
Was this meaning of the word unknown to you?
Woofing is a work exchange situation, there are no wages involved. People work on organic farms in exchange for board and being taught skills.
It's a good scheme when it's done well, but it's not supposed to be comparable to waged work. It also operates with a degree of good will, so it's astounding to see a woofing host saying that non-residents should be sent home given woofing traditionally has been full of international travellers.
If farms depend on labour, then they should pay a decent rate to get employees who commit to work (woofing labour doesn't have this kind of commitment). If farms want to keep woofing as well, then they can make their situation attractive to Kiwis under covid border closures. I like the idea of farmers banding together to provide enough of a living for local workers, or those willing to travel for seasonal work.
Re the Kiwi thing, woofing is supposed to be skills training, so there is actually quite a good opportunity there for both sides at this time.
Woofing.
Yet another way for entitled people to avoid paying workers.
WOOFing seems to be of some interest to the Department of Labour.
In addition, of course, to international backpackers usually not being on work visas, IRD would be wanting PAYE, and ACC would be after their cut, as well.
Janet, whatever your visitor book says, I hope you're checking visas.
yeah, IRD have had a look too from memory. Thing is, woofing isn't supposed to be merely a work for board scheme. It's supposed to be a learning exchange, where people can work on organic properties and learn skills specific to organic farming/gardening. Obviously there are farmers who abuse that and simply use it as a form of cheap labour, but I think the original intent is sound. If the govt shut down the scheme I guess growers could charge for training people and then offset that with accommodation and food. I'd prefer if the sector sorted its shit out and the govt gave support for the original intent. Covid seems an ideal opportunity for both.
"The Labour Inspectorate believes that it is highly unlikely that any person working in an accommodation facility and being rewarded with accommodation could be regarded as a genuine
volunteer."
That's backpacker businesses straight up using international visitors as cheap labour. Sometimes not even woofing, it's pretty common for tourism to use work for board arrangements. I'd be happy for the govt to intervene in that.
"Labour Inspectorate has since communicated these findings to the industry, and expects accommodation providers who have been engaging in this practice to now meet their obligations as employers"
Curious now how this has been followed up given that was in 2018.
And whether they've looked at the large scale hiring of international vistitors in tourism/hospo (and I would guess hort) of people without employment agreements and where low wages and poor work conditions are normal because the workers are essentially on holiday and happy to work whatever hours in between doing their holiday things.
That shit means large numbers of jobs are simply not available for locals who need steady income and decent conditions to work around things like kids, school, paying rent/utilities and so on. My understanding is that the labour dept haven't been looking at that terribly closely (who wants to have a pop at tourism?) but I'd love to know.
It's an issue that crosses a lot of boundaries. The big one is immigration – a holiday or student visa essentially rules out any "learning exchange". I used to work with a lot of international students, ISTR the maximum hours they could work was 20/wk.
But a longer term apprenticeship scheme might work, but then that would have to be the declared reason someone enters the country.
Immigration periodically pings workplaces for hiring people without work visas, but that's difficult to detect if they're being paid under the table unless you actually raid the place in person and see who is on site.
My impression is that there are already avenues for farmers to do this legitimately. Apprenticeships, short term employment, whatevs.
The WWOOF website Janet linked to seems to directly contradict the government view about whether the "volunteers" are actually employees. Any website doing something like that tingles my spidey-sense that something not entirely kosher is going on. That's beside the entire "work without actual pay" thing. Janet's actual outgoings for 25hrs a week labour are the food the "volunteer" eats and some tv/internet time. No tax, no ACC, no other compliance costs that other farmers with employees pay.
The departments of inland revenue, labour, and immigration might be interested in participants in that deal.
But beside that, your "helpers"/employees are essentially people who do not need money. You pay them in kind. Migrant workers aren't here for the joy of traipsing around NZ on the cheap – they want money. Often to send back home to people in need.
If you only need 25hr/wk, maybe join up with some other small farmers to turn it full time? And knock a bit off the fee for room & board? At least these workers will have work visas, unlike many backpackers.
I used to see these woofers dropped off at the intercity bus every day.
There was a hug, and then the owner walked away and you could see the cold steely glint in their eye as they anticipated the next sucker coming along to do slave labour for next to nothing.
Sure it is an experience for a 21 year old German on their OE, it is not an option for a kiwi trying to survive in this country.
And many of those so called organic farms are dairy farms with a small (maybe) organic patch of veges and the workers are out there milking totally non-organic cows.
But this 'sharing and caring … incredulous marvel , nurturing, patiently teaching and listening' and 'tears on leaving and staying in touch.' becomes 'No, no benefit for non – New Zealanders. These people are not people willing to work.'.
Why is that?
Can you post a link to where their pay is taken away in food and board please.
We wouldn't want people to think you are just talking shit and that?
Thanks
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-21-11-2020/?replytocom=1767550#respond
https://wwoof.nz/how-it-works/
The original intent has been long lost, this "scheme" is being used as justification in a number of ways that have no relationship to "organic farming" to get experience. While I was checking it out references to work as "night warden" to "receptionists" even one with "pilates" came up. While there may genuine use of it still it's clear it's being used to get free labour.
https://www.backpackerboard.co.nz/work_jobs/new_zealand_voluntary_work.php
I think this is an ideal opportunity for younger folk and school leavers from the big smoke to experience their own backyard in a risk-free way. If I were younger, I’d want to do it myself! I assume to work at your little farm you have to be 18 years of age. I’m going to check out wwoof NZ; thank you for the link.
Yes , they have all left school and many are doing a "gap" year between leaving school and university. Most are under 30 and are travelling on NZ working holiday Visas. I do not take people with out visas. This year my grand-daughter took a gap year to travel to Europe to spend some time with her maternal family, but Covid struck. Instead she went woofing in NZ. Next year she starts university.
While you are back Janet
Do you mind answering a question?
Is what you pay workers on top of free board, or in exchange for free board and they in essence don't get paid?
Cheers
Yes she did. She got to experience the SI for the first time in her life , and learnt to navigate her way around NZ alone.
As per the woofer site I posted.
Had honestly never heard of woofering till today and this thread.
Looking at your link I can understand why people wouldn't mind doing that for a week or so, provided it is legit, and they are actually learning about nature.
Personally wouldn't as grew up just hanging out in the bush in the south island.
Would imagine there are some dodgy people offering it though. (Not you. As you seem to be honest)
Cheers
Chris T
You are bloody annoying. Let me put it in English for you, as McFlock has already done. Free means Free, given unconditionally. Your nonsense of 'free board given in exchange for labour' means that the board is NOT free if labour has to be given it exchange for it. Do you understand the English language?
'Woofering' would seem to me a good term for the semi-literate bullshit you have spouted.
The word 'free' has at least 42 different usages. Insisting that only one of them applies is a peculiar attempt at point scoring to say the least.
Most people enjoy woofing as part of the whole travel experience; they get to live and work in one place for a short period, which is often a lot more satisfying than just superficially travelling from place to place never really engaging with the local people.
They get to experience something they'd otherwise probably not access otherwise, and the farmer gets some labour in exchange. Woofing has been going on for yonks, although the internet has made it more popular and efficient in recent times. And there now are many variants of it in existence that have extended the concept much wider than just organic farming.
That some people here are keen to characterise it as rank exploitation is pretty typical of their sour view on life in general. They're the same people who rarely have a good word to say about anything much.
Well, look at the context of the conversation. I'm pretty sure the nautical terms don't apply to organic farming. Some of the political ones are also out – "not in slavery" seems to be a low bar. Similarly, I don't know what goes on at Janet's farm but any "licentious behaviour" would seem to be beside the point. So have a go at whittling those 42 down like a human who can parse everyday language.
Under-the-table transactions have been going on since Sumerian times. Many of them are fair enough between the parties concerned. But moaning that migrant workers stuck here shouldn't get the dole because they could work for "free" (sorry, "room and board") like backpackers is a joke.
Nice one RL. It's a rare person who never has a sour view, don't you think? Are those "some people here" by any chance the same people who "rarely have a good word to say about" your views on the value(s) of Capitalism and Marxism, the Black Lives Matter movement, whether the Covid-19 pandemic is "over", and the feasibility of certain hypothetical solutions to poverty, global warming, and ecological collapse?
For example, we disagree about the value of Dr Helen Caldicott's activism. You don't have a good word to say about her many (IMHO) positive contributions; indeed yours seems to be a rather sour view.
We do, however, agree on some things, e.g. that the way Assange is being treated is a perversion of justice. Sweet & sour sauce
Redlogix.
The basic meaning of 'free' is an absolute, like 'unique'. Something is either free (or unique) or it is not. There is no corrupting 'rather free ' or 'quite free'.
Your 42 different usages are valid if they mean using the word as a verb (to liberate) for example, but Chris T was clearly using it in the sense of 'cost-free', and that is a straight absolute. I suspect that most of your so-called 42 usages are solecisms and barbarisms taken from some less than authoritative source.
This is basically an abuse of the English language by employers who call it ‘free’ board to make it sound better than it is. It is not free. The pay for their labour is simply ‘board plus money’.
Does your grand-daughter enjoy it?
Still doubting it's an upside down world…?..ardern announces a new river of corporate/housing welfare/money..nat spokesperson suggest some restrictions on that money to stop it further fuelling the housing bubble…and in the m.s.m. this morning all the usually tory pimps from industry etc come out against tory spokesperson…and fully in support of j.ardern and her promised river of corporate/housing welfare/money…(and if you pinch yourself…no you aren't dreaming/having a nightmare…this is the labour party ..in it's second term..doing this..)
What did they do for the first one?
Forgive me if I don't hold my breath, given they are good at words and crap at action,
why would someone bother to answer you. you can even understand the woofer setup , so expecting you to understand anything slightly complicated is foolish.
Could someone put up a link about the story at Newshub about the engineer who was on The Nation this morning about the concrete poured into a shaft at the Pike River Mine in 2011.
What was the purpose of doing that?
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/tonnes-of-concrete-poured-into-critically-important-pike-river-mine-air-feed-where-miners-could-have-gathered-engineer.html
Thank you.
I hope that this is investigated thoroughly.
Meanwhile Key says the bleed'in obvious
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300164333/nationals-own-failings-cost-it-the-election-says-john-key
Yet the Nats keep hapless Goodfellow in charge. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300164491/peter-goodfellow-to-remain-national-party-president
Snap!
Even now, the blue bubble remains sealed off from reality. Incredible.
They have their own reality
Priorities – the board chooses its chair after members vote for new/returning board members:
Well at least we will know what the agenda is, fish out all marine stocks completely (Goodfellow has been selling down his Sanford shares for years as he knows the time is near when they are all gone), and convert to dairy subsidised by a National government.
But yes, he seems to have lost the plot, so good for the left.
Paraphrasing the Party Guru with a strong message for the Party faithful:
“If you don’t like Dirty Politics, here’s a clue, quit the Dirty Party,” Key said.
Wise words and insights from the insider par excellence.
Stop the leaking, do as I did, have a Leader almost as popular as I was, a few tax cuts and BAU and you can beat Jacinda Ardern in 2023.
They are pretty stupid re-electing Goodfellow and have learned nothing! Act and Labour will do well next time.
National have re-elected Goodfellow as party president. So the lesson they have learned from electoral disaster is … nothing.
Champagne corks are popping at Labour HQ.