Open Mike 24/06/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 24th, 2017 - 87 comments
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87 comments on “Open Mike 24/06/2017 ”

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  1. Ad 1
    24 June 2017 at 8:33 am

    Looks like the Auckland housing price boom is really over.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11881164

    Naturally, this doesn’t cure homelessness. There’s still a big place for Labour’s excellent housing policies

    But if you ever want to see policy working to tilt a whole market, look no further than the measures that this National government put in place.

    It was only in October last year that tighter Loan to Value Ratio restrictions were put in place. It required property investors to have a 40% deposit for a mortgage loan and owner-occupiers to have a 20% deposit. Immediately the froth came off, but now its effect is really showing.

    Who knows, we could still have a housing price collapse.

    Or we could have the modern miracle of government, over the one great asset the majority of New Zealanders have: their home. And that miracle is managing the entire real estate market down.

    • Carolyn_nth 1.1
      24 June 2017 at 8:50 am

      What are you on? The article says the biggest casualty is first home buyers are the main ones being shut out of the housing market. Meanwhile, the biggest winners are investors with cash.

      • marty mars 1.1.1
        24 June 2017 at 9:05 am

        + 1

        Ad will be okay so no problem.

      • Ad 1.1.2
        24 June 2017 at 12:50 pm

        Here it is.
        Housing has to stop being our preferred asset class. It’s going to hurt.

        First home buyers will almost always need to draw on their parents’ equity.

        Every currently home-owning family will be forced to think like they are a bank with specific limited equity to carefully dole out.

        • weka 1.1.2.1
          24 June 2017 at 1:03 pm

          Or, put rules in place to stop speculating on property as a way of making an income.

          • Ad 1.1.2.1.1
            24 June 2017 at 1:15 pm

            The 10 year boom has created a set of highly leveraged large landlords. Very few are cashed up. Very few banks are lending.

            The 2 year Bright Line test is doing it’s job limiting speculators.

            The new rules are not enough, but they are heading us in the right direction without a crash.

            • weka 1.1.2.1.1.1
              24 June 2017 at 2:18 pm

              From the view from halfway to the bottom end, what you are talking about looks like tinkering to make the market better for the top end, mostly as investment. And ultimately that will continue to hurt renters, the homeless and those on lowish incomes who might want to buy. There are whole classes of people now who can’t own and struggle to afford rent and I don’t see what you are talking about as improving that much (although I’m sure it is better than nothing).

              The problem is seeing housing as a financial investment, and that’s a tricky one to unpack because it’s tied to retirement and the contemporary idea that the state can no longer bet trusted to support people. Better to fix welfare/social security IMO, and then reinstate housing as being about having a home instead of a financial investment.

              • Carolyn_nth …
                24 June 2017 at 6:14 pm

                Yep. It’s treating housing a social investment that’s a problem – plus the decline of our welfare system, low wages and focusing generally on profits over people.

  2. The Chairman 2
    24 June 2017 at 8:39 am

    Do Labour plan to make the TPP an election issue?
    Little has been said.

    • saveNZ 2.1
      24 June 2017 at 12:53 pm

      Good point, of course Labour should. It’s one of the main differences that people can say in one sentence and TPPA is very unpopular.

      • The Chairman 2.1.1
        24 June 2017 at 1:04 pm

        “TPPA is very unpopular”

        One would expect Labour to capitalize off that, yet there’s little being said.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1
          24 June 2017 at 1:40 pm

          Considering that Labour, in it’s fanatical following of the neo-liberal cult, is actually in agreement with the TPPA and FTAs in general then, no, you shouldn’t expect them to make capital off of it.

          • The Chairman 2.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2017 at 1:49 pm

            That explains the silence. But it will probably cost them a few votes though.

            The Nats are pushing it through, hence a number will vote accordingly to oppose it.

          • Karen 2.1.1.1.2
            24 June 2017 at 2:49 pm

            They have been clear about opposition to the TPPA many times, including on Morning Report a couple of weeks ago. Not that it matters as the TPPA is dead.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.2.1
              24 June 2017 at 2:55 pm

              Link?

              I’ve never seen them being clear about it and that is usually bound up with their general belief that FTAs are good no matter what.

              • patricia bremner …
                24 June 2017 at 6:21 pm

                I put in NZ Labour TPPA and got the NO and the petition.
                Trade OK. The loss of sovereignty rules it out. No changes as far as I can see.

            • saveNZ 2.1.1.1.2.2
              24 June 2017 at 6:48 pm

              Nope TPPA isn’t dead. Bill English was out trying to drum up the zombie agreement with anybody left who will listen.

              If Natz get in again, and with Trump going to sign ‘if USA get a good deal”. Well we all know that Natz would sign anything no matter how damaging to the people of NZ. What do they care what’s in the details, whether arduous health costs or turning our cops into copywrite cops for US business – who the frig knows what the National party are prepared to sign with Trump or anyone else, anything.

  3. The Chairman 3
    24 June 2017 at 8:49 am

    National will be doing the numbers. Will English remaining do more damage than English standing down?

    • Barfly 3.1
      24 June 2017 at 9:22 am

      Both are likely to be fatal.

      • saveNZ 3.1.1
        24 June 2017 at 1:04 pm

        Lets hope.

        Not a lot of talk about how hopeless the National Party look, post Key. Zero succession planning in the National Party. My guess is trader Key, read the future, realised the shit was going to hit the fan with our economy 98 million dollars into the red and bailed so he could look good and escape to Hawaii with full benefits and pensions and brag to his mates how he was NZ’s most popular PM.

        Of course Tony Blair used to be popular and look what happened to him and the UK Labour party after he left.

        Now it’s the right’s turn.

        We have Bitter Bill, the world’s biggest bores.
        Ex Bene turned Bene basher with a wonderful CV of receiving government money her whole life and now as deputy leader.
        Judith Colins with so many scandals and dirt to be dug up she could make mince meat out of the National party rep.
        Joyce, the world’s most arrogant yokel, who can even annoy the most eager National business person with his ‘pretty legal’ chit chat
        Brownlee, the CHCH rebuild architect – “wizard’.
        Smith, who unlike Jesus can turn fish into faeces.

        • The Chairman 3.1.1.1
          24 June 2017 at 1:17 pm

          An ex Merrill Lyncher is the likely outcome of Barclay standing down, but yes, who would replace English?

    • patricia bremner 3.2
      24 June 2017 at 6:47 pm

      Bill marched away from an interview looking relaxed and pleased.
      His statement “if there was a tape” is a worry. Does he know it is long gone,
      and now evidence is hear-say?
      Though he still has to explain his texts and Glenys’s call to the victim, after his call to her on Waitangi Day. (interview with Gower),
      Bouyed by the “late” poll results as well? (late = 2 weeks old)
      Bennett declaring a political crush on English, tells me there is division, and she has chosen. No real surprise in that. So Bill has to get the numbers.

      WE have to act on faith, and give our honest guy Andrew support.
      We need to speak up and sell our honest group.
      Bury all hair shirts ’till the election is over!!
      We have enough horrible foes without ‘white anting’ the party.
      We need to get them in, then apply the pressure to enact people friendly legislation.
      We are closer than they care to admit, that is why they are shrill and in attack mode.
      Don’t give them fodder.
      We need to join together and push this over the line.
      Please enrol and vote 2 ticks.

    • James 3.3
      25 June 2017 at 2:45 am

      Nats 49% – labour 25% and you think it’s nats doing the numbers – you’re delusional.

      • The Chairman 3.3.1
        25 June 2017 at 8:37 am

        Stable Government with English being sold as a trusted, stable pair of hands is the line National are pushing.

        English standing down would destroy that perception. But now that his credibility has come into question, there could also be damage if he remains party leader.

        Therefore, it’s delusional to think they wouldn’t be evaluating the numbers.

        Moreover, you’ve seem to have forgotten this is an MMP election, therefore Labour aren’t standing alone. And when combined with the Greens (& possibly NZF) it’s going to be a close finish.

      • Ed 3.3.2
        25 June 2017 at 8:42 am

        Do you care about New Zealand’s children?
        We are 1st for rugby, but 34th for children in the OECD.
        Which do you care about more ?

  4. Ant 4
    24 June 2017 at 9:35 am

    CREATIVE FUTURE?
    It is no coincidence that world-wide rehabilitation programs for offenders and addicts are invariably grounded in creativity: cooking, music, art, surfing, environmental restoration. Spontaneous creativity is neither a luxury nor a talent, but the natural expression of all of us, setting us aside from other life forms on earth.

    By re-aligning our waking hours with that which is creative in ourselves rather than squeezing it in over weekends we will defuse restlessness, the futility of non-fulfilment and the sense that our abilities are going to waste. With widespread automation, decimation of jobs and UBI in place vast reserves of creativity could be put to work restoring society, the environment, the social structure and all that runs counter to a happy and productive country.

    Creativity has many faces; the politically inclined will generate fresh ways of inclusive government; educators new methods of drawing out the creativity of their charges; financiers equitable ways of restructuring currency (or what’s left of it); artists and musicians novel expression of humanity’s changing orientation on earth; scientists sustainable methods of restoring the integrity of our ecosystems; idealists insights into our future course; philosophers insightful ways to growth and understanding of the evolving human spirit, to name a few.

    For those who have tried it the satisfaction of working creatively in cooperative ventures eclipses the need to “prove oneself” via competition. Whether the race is ready to move beyond this most basic of drivers is difficult to say.

    • TootingPopularFront 4.1
      24 June 2017 at 1:22 pm

      Very uplifting, thanks Ant, there is much to reflect on in your post.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.2
      24 June 2017 at 1:47 pm

      For those who have tried it the satisfaction of working creatively in cooperative ventures eclipses the need to “prove oneself” via competition. Whether the race is ready to move beyond this most basic of drivers is difficult to say.

      We evolved beyond it millions of years ago. If there’s anything to the human nature argument that the RWNJs bring up all the time it’s that we’re mostly altruistic and cooperative. It’s the sociopaths that aren’t and they’re the minority.

      • Ant 4.2.1
        24 June 2017 at 2:14 pm

        Your’e saying humans are no longer competitive? Free market system, capitalism, one-upmanship, rampant materialism, – all driven by competition when I last looked.

        • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1
          24 June 2017 at 2:17 pm

          Yep but that doesn’t mean that the majority of people are that way inclined. It just means that the ones with power are.

          • Ant 4.2.1.1.1
            24 June 2017 at 5:38 pm

            If the majority were not that way inclined the fashion, cosmetic, designer clothing, and a host of other industries would have collapsed long ago.

            • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2017 at 5:43 pm

              No. It’s a question of training via environment. Change the environment and change the people.

        • Stuart Munro 4.2.1.2
          24 June 2017 at 2:24 pm

          Our markets are not notably free – everything in NZ costs more except wages. The Rogergnomic reforms failed – but then they were never intended to work, only to enrich a small subset of the population.

    • patricia bremner 4.3
      24 June 2017 at 6:53 pm

      Yes Beeby had it right in the 60s school syllabus.

      • Ant 4.3.1
        24 June 2017 at 7:45 pm

        True. Talent and creativity can only flourish through honouring the individual’s uniqueness in terms of background, era and culture. Mass delivered education in crowded classrooms can never deliver. National trots out the worn mantra “research has shown that class size does not make a difference to educational achievement.”; of course they are talking about grades but remain shy of asking why depression, suicide, substance abuse etc. remain depressingly high.

    • Incognito 4.4
      24 June 2017 at 8:49 pm

      Thank you!

      Only through being creative can we realise who we are.

      It’s both an inward and outward journey with no set destination and no initial boundaries or fear.

  5. Cinny 5
    24 June 2017 at 9:58 am

    Will the PM who quit aka Key be making an appearance at the Nat’s conference this weekend? Will he be standing up and backing English, defending the outgoing PM’s lying etc?

    Where is Key? If he was a good friend of Bills surely he would be helping him out of the massive Barclay scandal which is still making news.

  6. The Chairman 6
    24 June 2017 at 11:57 am

    Hone on the Nation – wow! He’ll keep the headline writers busy.

    • BM 6.1
      24 June 2017 at 12:13 pm

      Pretty scathing of Andrew Little.

      Wish they’d get rid of Lisa Owen though, Jesus, shut the fuck up and let your guests speak. don’t ask a question and talk over them when they’re trying to reply to the question you asked.

      Definitely one of the worst interviewers on TV.

      • The Chairman 6.1.1
        24 June 2017 at 12:41 pm

        “Pretty scathing of Andrew Little.”

        Indeed. He accused Little of lying and treating Labour’s Maori MPs like “shit”.

        • marty mars 6.1.1.1
          24 June 2017 at 1:11 pm

          I think Hone should stay out of politics and go back to activism. i don’t think he gets it. Nothing worse than seeing someone who doesn’t know when it’s over.

          • The Chairman 6.1.1.1.1
            24 June 2017 at 1:23 pm

            It’s clear he’s going to let voters decide that one (whether it’s over).

            • marty mars 6.1.1.1.1.1
              24 June 2017 at 1:26 pm

              They already have.

              • The Chairman …
                24 June 2017 at 1:32 pm

                Your talking last election. Things are different now, hence I was referring to this election.

                • marty mars …
                  24 June 2017 at 1:40 pm

                  Yeah i know. They are different not in a beneficial way imo.

                  • The Chairman …
                    24 June 2017 at 2:14 pm

                    Going off the interview, can’t see his deal with the Māori Party going too well.

                    They agreed not to stand against each other in electoral seats. The expectation being that doing so would encourage supporters of both to support the one standing. However, Hone won’t give his backing of his members doing so due to the Māori Party’s support of the Māori land reform Bill.

                    And apparently Marama Fox has threaten to respond in kind.

                    • marty mars …
                      24 June 2017 at 2:19 pm

                      I know. Got a Facebook petition – save the Māori land court – from the mana party. Someone wrote a comment about the deal with the Māori Party – just a joke imo.

          • Karen 6.1.1.1.2
            24 June 2017 at 2:45 pm

            Me too Marty. I like Hone but I don’t think he is doing himself (or Mana) any favours at the moment. I think he can be more effective as an activist than as a lone backbencher.

            This is more worrying though – he evidently suggested life imprisonment or deportation to China for the death penalty to discourage meth dealing on the Nation. I really wouldn’t have expected that from him

  7. Morrissey 7
    24 June 2017 at 12:03 pm

    Anyone interested in learning something about the ongoing siege of Gaza should read this book…

    Gaza: An Inquest into Its Martyrdom
    by NORMAN FINKELSTEIN

    Gaza is among the most densely populated places in the world. Two-thirds of its inhabitants are refugees, and more than half the population is under eighteen years of age. Since Israel occupied Gaza in 1967, it has systematically de-developed the economy. After Hamas won democratic elections in 2006, Israel intensified its blockade of Gaza, and after Hamas consolidated its control of the territory in 2007, Israel tightened its illegal siege another notch. In the meantime, Israel has launched no less than eight military operations against Gaza—culminating in Operation Cast Lead in 2008–9 and Operation Protective Edge in 2014—that left behind over three million tons of rubble. Recent UN reports predict that Gaza will be unlivable by 2020.

    Norman G. Finkelstein presents a meticulously researched and devastating inquest into Israel’s actions of the last decade. He argues that although Israel justified its blockade and violent assaults in the name of self-defense, in fact these actions were cynical exercises of brutal power against an essentially defenseless civilian population. Based on hundreds of human rights reports, the book scrutinizes multifarious violations of international law Israel committed both during its operations and in the course of its decade-long siege of Gaza. It is a monument to Gaza’s martyrs and a scorching accusation against their tormenters.

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/book/gaza-an-inquest-into-its-martyrdom-3/

  8. North 8
    24 June 2017 at 12:47 pm

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/book/gaza-an-inquest-into-its-martyrdom-3/

    Thanks Morrissey Not available from Amazon until Jan ’18 apparently Daresay it will be definitive As remains this –

    Here’s some punctuation –

    • North 8.1
      24 June 2017 at 1:14 pm

      Women crying…….not truly for the victims……..more for themselves and their busted ‘Zionist Exceptionalism’

  9. Morrissey 9
    24 June 2017 at 6:13 pm

    Reasons to be Cheerful
    No. 1 Jeremy Corbyn

    The British prime minister-in-waiting has been confronting pure evil for a long time now….

  10. rhinocrates 10
    24 June 2017 at 6:29 pm

    Well fuck you too Labour:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/93965507/labour-abandons-water-and-nutrient-charging-policy-for-farming

    The most charitable or delusional interpretation I can make is that Labour is outsourcing its environmental policy to the Greens and will ‘concede’ clean river as part of a deal later, but remember how Blair was supposed to be cultivating the Conservative voters before he was going to implement real socialist policies? Right, we all know how that turned out.

    It looks like Little is just Captain Mumblefuck 2.0

    • weka 10.1
      24 June 2017 at 7:12 pm

      Adelia Hallett‏ @AdeliaHallett 5h5 hours ago

      Labour hasn’t ruled out pricing water at all David Parker tells F&B conference #ConservationHeroes

      https://twitter.com/AdeliaHallett/status/878441100586786816

      I don’t know what they’re doing. I’d like to see their whole policies because that article doesn’t really say a lot.

      One delegate sought an assurance from Little that the Green Party would not “can” Labour’s attitude to how it would operate as a government.

      “We [and the Greens] have common areas of policy but also areas we differ on as well. The more support you give us, the more we can approach your industry in a practical and sensible way,” Little responded.

      Lol, that’s my argument to people to vote Green. If we want a progressive govt the more Greens the better. Little is speaking to that audience but it does make me think they’ve chosen messaging over authenticity.

      • rhinocrates 10.1.1
        24 June 2017 at 7:23 pm

        they’ve chosen messaging over authenticity.

        If we want a progressive govt the more Greens the better. Little is speaking to that audience but it does make me think they’ve chosen messaging over authenticity.

        Absolutely. They only succeed in coming across as insincere and confused.

        I’m voting Green. Very Little can go fuck himself.

        It’s very easy to see why people are sick of business as usual politics when the system keeps excreting nobodies like Blinglish and Little.

        • weka 10.1.1.1
          24 June 2017 at 8:33 pm

          I think our best bet is to have a L/G govt without Peters. This will give the Greens a chance to prove themselves once and for all. They’re obviously competent to be in govt, but it will be crunch time as to whether they can do govt differently and keep left.

          • rhinocrates 10.1.1.1.1
            25 June 2017 at 12:34 am

            In the absence of any unicorns, I agree. The Greens are showing both integrity and discipline and deserve to have a hand in government. Labour is riddled with egotistical careerists such as Robertson who put themselves first, party second and principles third. Little is totally ineffective in keeping them in check and shows no competence or principles. He is not a PM in waiting, which is the test of any opposition. His only advantage is that Blinglish is not a PM at all.

      • Karen 10.1.2
        25 June 2017 at 12:29 pm

        Hmmm. I was really alarmed about the report about what Little said, but today there was a press release from him, plus just heard David Parker on midday news on Nat radio saying that policy from 2014 hasn’t changed. Little claims he misunderstood the question and his lack of response to another statement was seen as agreement when it wasn’t.

        http://www.labour.org.nz/labour_will_not_resile_from_royalties

        I agree that the Greens are stronger that Labour on environmental policy so making sure they have a significant influence in a Labour/Green government is important.

        • weka 10.1.2.1
          25 June 2017 at 12:46 pm

          Thanks Karen, I’ll put that up as a post in the morning. I thought the original Stuff article was poor and probably misleading so good to have some more information.

          One of Labour’s problems is the lag time between their speeches and media work and putting things up on their website. I’m still waiting for something on mental health after their good work in Chch last week. If they’re just going to rely on the media coverage then mistakes like this one over water will happen.

          • Karen 10.1.2.1.1
            25 June 2017 at 5:06 pm

            Labour don’t seem to have a good comms team at all and I find it really frustrating. I know they have quite a lot on at the moment but this water policy confusion should have dealt with as soon as the article appeared, not 2 days later.

            If there is a policy announcement the policy page on the website should be updated immediately afterwards and there should be 2 versions, one with a lot more detail (for policy nerds like me!) They did that for the immigration one but it isn’t consistent.

            • weka 10.1.2.1.1.1
              25 June 2017 at 6:28 pm

              On you on any of their mailing lists? do you get emailed policy summaries or such? Just wondering if I should subscribe.

              • Karen …
                25 June 2017 at 7:21 pm

                I am on the mailing list for the Greens and Labour but Labour tend to just send major speeches rather than individual policy announcements. Mostly, I just look at the new policies page:

                http://www.labour.org.nz/announced_policies

                Hopefully this will be a bit more informative closer to the election as most of the policies don’t have enough detail for my liking. This may be because they are still formulating some of it.

                I also look at their press release page as I prefer to get the info direct rather than filtered by the MSM.
                http://www.labour.org.nz/press_releases

    • millsy 10.2
      24 June 2017 at 10:53 pm

      Federated Farmers are NZ’s version of the NRA.

      To be honest I dont think farmers want clean rivers/waterways, for the simple reason that it impacts on their profits. “Local based solutions” are all PR bullshit.

      It would be better and more honest for FF to have the guts to stand up and just say, “we dont want clean rivers, because we just want to make a shit load of money instead, and also, we want to shut New Zealander out of the farming industry and have farm workers all migrants”.

      /

  11. Tautoko Mangō Mata 11
    24 June 2017 at 7:16 pm

    The 2017 FIZZ Conference
    “Taxing Sugary Drinks: An Election Issue” will be held on Monday 26 June.

    Meanwhile, I note the following Official Information request languishing on FYI”

    Document containing advice re Sugar Tax from MOH tabled during question time 13.10.2016
    Request sent to Minister of Health by John Gray on October 13, 2016.
    Long overdue.

    Hansard details:
    Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I seek leave to table advice to me from the Ministry of Health saying that there is no conclusive evidence that a sugar tax will decrease obesity rates
    https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20161013_20161013_16

    It is nearly 8 months since the OIA request……….

    The Prime Minister’s Chief Science Advisor give his view- “don’t rule out sugar tax” on video. https://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2015/07/30/pms-chief-science-advisor-on-sugar-obesity-and-taxes/

  12. Ad 12
    24 June 2017 at 9:23 pm

    30-8 to the All Blacks.

    Is it too early to suggest that an All Blacks series win against the Lions and an America’s Cup victory would be – al least national mood wise – be pretty good for this government in September?

    • Ed 12.1
      24 June 2017 at 10:33 pm

      Great – we’re first at rugby and sailing and 34th in the OECD for looking after children.
      If we vote for this, we are contemptible.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11874764

      • Red 12.1.1
        24 June 2017 at 11:48 pm

        The peop,e are never wrong Paul or ed or what ever you call yourself these days so be ready to be disapointed

        • Incognito 12.1.1.1
          25 June 2017 at 10:41 am

          That’s just a cliché, not an argument.

          We are misguided, misinformed, disinformed, manipulated, conditioned, and most of all resistant to change and apathetic. You were saying?

    • James 12.2
      25 June 2017 at 2:58 am

      I couldn’t see the game where I am overseas – but looks like we played well.

      And agree – between this and if we get the Americas cup – it will pit a lot of people in a good mood. Add that the the majority of people thinking the country is heading in the right direction it’s a good position for national.

  13. lprent 13
    24 June 2017 at 10:40 pm

    Outages today were due to googlebots having an issue with an old post from 2011 which had links starting with // and/or ending with ‘. They have read this post hundreds of times before. Looks like something got tweaked.

    Caused some interesting effects with some strange URLs. tens of thousands of queries per minute, high CPU, and the processor shutting down when it hit safety tempatures.

    I have fixed the page, removed the googlebot special access and I’ve started treating it like bingbot…

  14. Ovid 14
    24 June 2017 at 10:42 pm

    Fascinating interview with Frankie Boyle on British politics

  15. Red 15
    24 June 2017 at 11:49 pm

    Frankie has had to many pies

    • rhinocrates 15.1
      25 June 2017 at 12:41 am

      Gosh, that’s astute. That really shoots down his points doesn’t it? Also, it’s ‘TOO many’.

      Try not to look like such an idiot in future.

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