Open mike 27/08/2015

151 comments on “Open mike 27/08/2015 ”

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1. Paul 1

   27 August 2015 at 6:49 am

   My observation about the dire condition of our mainstream media in New Zealand looks not at how it uses distraction to dumb down citizens and turn them into ‘consumers’ ; rather it looks at its bias to the corporate industrial complex and its lackeys and puppets in New Zealand, the National Party.
   Last year the Herald got involved in Dirty Politcs by smearing and undermining David Cunliffe’s leadership close enough to the election to assist another victory for the National Party.
   The sponsors of the Herald, the real estate, insurance and finance industries clearly want more blood from its puppet paper. There has now been a sustained attack on Little by the Herald as it seeks to promote Jacinda Ardern. With a media like this, we only have a shadow of democracy In this country.
   • marty mars 1.1

     27 August 2015 at 7:56 am

     For me the herald is a tool, and stuff too – they put out their lines/articles and they are designed to elicit a response from readers – I want to know what they are trying to get me to think/do/believe – so that I can use a discriminating eye and mind and interpret their agenda. And then do what I want based on my beliefs and values.

     the msm is persuasive and pervading and they do support the agendas – as organs of culture they show how delusional we are, how idiotic we are, how unprepared and head in the sand we are. The deeper those delusions go, the more along the road we are towards the inevitable conclusion. I don’t want or believe the msm will change – we need canaries, we need strident protectors of the ‘progress’ religion and fervent advocates of whichever ‘middle’ party is in power, we need them so we have something to contrast to, so we can do the opposite, believe the opposite and act opposite. So fuck the herald – I use them.
     • Charles 1.1.1

       27 August 2015 at 8:15 am

       I want to know what they are trying to get me to think/do/believe – so that I can use a discriminating eye and mind and interpret their agenda. And then do what I want based on my beliefs and values.

       Or make the job easier and faster by doing whatever you want and not read/watch it at all. From here, the World as portrayed by even a 30 second news headlines ad on TV, or the front page at a supermarket entrance, it’s like, “Where the fuck are these people coming from?”. Wherever it is, it can’t be good for their health – mental or otherwise.

       I recommend a site like metapicture, which has all the slightly muted values and prejudices of the perspective that everyone loves to repeat in the news, but interspersed by about 50% vaguely amusing rubbish – or try the weather forecast. As Simon and Garfunkel once said, “I get all the news I need on the weather report…”

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGDt2skie84
       • marty mars 1.1.1.1

         27 August 2015 at 10:08 am

         thanks charles – I quite like my way, honed from years of experience to a keen edge capable of slicing and dicing quite delicately and mindfully.
   • The lost sheep 1.2

     27 August 2015 at 8:05 am

     With a media like this, we only have a shadow of democracy In this country.

     As you are back yet again on this topic Paul, perhaps you’d like to continue the discussion yesterday on how you would fix it?

     To remind you where we were at, here’s where we paused…

     “The setting up of a genuine national TV broadcaster with several channels.”
     How would you control the content of such channels?

     Support for local grassroots media.
     Any grassroots media, or grassroots media that had to meet some form of Govt. approval?

     Regulations with teeth about impartiality
     ‘Regulations’ is a big word. What would be the central details of such regulation?
     • Ad 1.2.1

       27 August 2015 at 9:46 am

       We are the alternative.
       As is Whaleoil, Kiwiblog, and Scoop.

       Stand up. We’re taking over the world, one click at a time.
     • McFlock 1.2.2

       27 August 2015 at 12:00 pm

       So, just to recap, you’re not happy with paul just pointing out that NZ media are blatantly biased in favour of tories. You want paul to design an entire media system from the mechanisms of providing support to grassroots media all the way up to writing the details of content regulations. And you call those demands a “discussion”.

       yeah, fuck off.
   • Jenny Kirk 1.3

     27 August 2015 at 8:46 am

     Agree with you 100%, Paul. And I, too, have been wondering re the promotion of Jacinda Ardern – a very sneaky move to use her to undermine Andrew Little.
     • Ad 1.3.1

       27 August 2015 at 9:45 am

       Jacinda actively courts light media.
       And it’s what Labour desperately needs.

       Politics, otherwise, is “Entertainment With Ugly People”. Both visually and spiritually.

       National understands and accepts the power of televisual presence, and gain huge advantage in the MSM because of it. They remain better at it.

       We may like to think we are pure and only deal in policy thoughts like monks of old.
       Best of luck with that.

       Meantime, Labour sure as hell needs Jacinta.
       • Morrissey 1.3.1.1

         27 August 2015 at 10:12 am

         Our right wing friend “Ad” has, unwittingly, managed to say something that has some truth to it….

         Politics, otherwise, is “Entertainment With Ugly People”.

         That rather dull quip was made by someone in Hollywood in the early 1990s, and has been repeated ad nauseam by people like “Ad” ever since. Of course, as we see with the lionization of loud-mouthed vacuums like Donald Trump, the media are more than happy to concentrate on nonsense instead of anything substantial, which is not entertaining.

         So, yes, politics is indeed entertainment with ugly people—-morally ugly.

         There’s a flipside of course: so much of Hollywood seems to be politics for stupid people, as anyone will testify who has witnessed the embarrassing and unedifying spectacle of numbskulls like Neil Patrick Harris, Jared Leto, Kevin Costner, Kevin Spacey, Michael Douglas, John Malkovich and (most pathetic of all) Clint Eastwood trying to comment about things they know nothing about.
         • Ad 1.3.1.1.1

           27 August 2015 at 10:25 am

           Trump may not be entertaining to you.

           But he is on course to win the Republican nomination.
           Precisely because he is quotable, and entertaining.

           They even flock to his moral ugliness.

           Read those US polls and weep all you like.
           Trump has all the momentum, all the media oxygen, and he has huge popular support.

           He will win the Republican nomination for Presidency.
           • les 1.3.1.1.1.1

             27 August 2015 at 10:35 am

             have you quickly discraded your logic?…’The point of the Opposition is to show the public that their answers are better than the alternative, more credible, and more effective.’

             ‘But he is on course to win the Republican nomination.
             Precisely because he is quotable, and entertaining.’…………………….so which is more important…..policy or charisma….you seem very inconsistent or confused or both!
             • Ad …

               27 August 2015 at 10:37 am

               Policy is what you do when you don’t have charisma.
               Thanks for playing.
               • les …

                 27 August 2015 at 10:46 am

                 so policy is of no consequence…Nat strategy…’team Key’…are you with me!
               • Draco T Bastard …

                 27 August 2015 at 11:10 am

                 So, I take it you’ll be voting for National because you’re too shallow to actually think about policy.
                 • Ad …

                   27 August 2015 at 11:34 am

                   I’ve written a post on this today.
                   • Tracey …

                     27 August 2015 at 11:57 am

                     except in that post you propose policy as an asnwer, which contradicts many other things wyou say (in your comments at other times) about people like Adern and the need to fight fire with fire, popularity with popularity, do what it takes to win, which often precludes policy? That is certainly how 2007/2008 went, attack Clark, attack Labour, smile, says stuff which doesn’t mean much, and very little (or no policy).

                     All the things that people like BM say don’t work. And therein lies a message but I don’t know what the answer/counter is. Wish i did.
           • Morrissey 1.3.1.1.1.2

             27 August 2015 at 10:50 am

             Trump may not be entertaining to you.

             Oh, I can see he’s entertaining. But it’s like professional wrestling—there’s not a lot of substance there, and anyone with a brain soon gets bored and loses interest. It’s obvious to everyone that Trump is a souffle, a flake, a giant inflated bag of foul wind. Yes, he got 24 million people to tune in to watch him insult Mexicans and women, in between speeches by a dozen of America’s dullest men. And yes, he gets more people to his highly publicized appearances than Jeb Bush or Mario Rubio.

             But far, far more people are turning out to watch the most popular politician in the United States—Bernie Sanders.

             He will win the Republican nomination for Presidency.

             That’s what we’re all counting on.
             • Ad …

               27 August 2015 at 11:35 am

               So far it’s obvious to just a few in the media, and a few on the left.

               The people adore him.
               • Morrissey …

                 27 August 2015 at 6:46 pm

                 The people adore him.

                 Now I’m going to be charitable here and assume that you are not actually one of the small group of imbeciles that actually adore the most well funded joke candidate in history.

                 Donald Trump is not a new phenomenon. Joke candidates have a long history. New Zealand had a “Mickey Mouse” candidate in 1972, and there was a full ticket of McGillicuddy Serious Party candidates twenty years on from that. All of these people were more coherent and entertaining than Trump.

                 Britain had Screaming Lord Sutch and his Official Monster Raving Loony Party, of course. Screaming Lord Sutch was a far brighter and more compelling candidate than any of these Republican candidates, leave alone the joke candidate who continues to distract everyone.

                 So, as I say, we’re assuming that you are one of the many people that are smart enough to realise Trump has nothing and offers nothing, but are determined to believe that millions of people are stupid enough to vote for him.

                 Well, okay, a lot of people voted for that sinister robot Mitt Romney last time—-but compared to Donald Trump, Romney is the most brilliant orator on the planet and a philosopher of the highest order.

                 But then, compared to Donald Trump, so is anybody.
             • nadis …

               27 August 2015 at 11:53 am

               Trump wont win the Republican nomination, and Sanders won’t win the Democrat nomination – hes currently polling 20pts behind Clinton, before the gloves come off and the money needs raising. No matter how popular they are, they won’t be allowed to win by party interests, because in a presidential election, both of them are un-electable. The republicans have always had the problem that the sort of candidate who can win the primary could never win the wider election. Sanders is the democrat version of that problem.

               And in recent campaigns I can’t remember the last front runner at this point who ended up winning their party’s nomination.

               Trump is a joke – un-electable because he will piss off way to many demographics. Sanders is not a joke, but in the US environment the only major state he might carry is California. Forget all the other key battlegrounds in the electoral college – Florida, Michigan, NY, Texas, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Georgia. As soon as the Republicans start attacking him with ads, he is gone. Secretly the Dems are hoping Trump does win the nomination, as the Republicans are hoping Sanders wins for the democrats. The US presidential election clearly works against polarising candidates as most states are winner takes all, i.e., a 1 vote majority within California delivers the candidate 10% of the electoral college.
               • Tracey …

                 27 August 2015 at 12:04 pm

                 The republicans were hoping to appeal to the “minorites”, through Jeb Bush, but Trump is pissing many off in that regard. BUT FOX News is not (from what I can see) a Trump fan and that will hurt him in the long run
               • Morrissey …

                 27 August 2015 at 6:54 pm

                 I’m pleased to see that you acknowledge Sanders is NOT a joke candidate.

                 However, that acknowledgement comes after you have erroneously compared him to Trump.

                 Let’s get this straight: Sanders is serious, whereas Trump and the whole sorry Republican Party is nothing more than a crazy insurgency movement, dedicated to ruining America’s democracy.

                 I find it remarkable that you insist Sanders is “un-electable”. He’s surely no more unelectable than Barack Obama was, running as a black candidate in a profoundly racist country.
                 • marty mars …

                   27 August 2015 at 9:49 pm

                   my prediction is that trump will win the presidency – society throws up these types in its last days/years – and they’ll build that stupid wall too…
           • mary_a 1.3.1.1.1.3

             27 August 2015 at 5:02 pm

             @ Ad – Your reference to Trump.”He will win the Republican nomination for Presidency.”

             That should make it easy for a Democrat win then.
             • Ad …

               27 August 2015 at 7:41 pm

               Be pretty dark for the world if they lose.
       • Tracey 1.3.1.2

         27 August 2015 at 11:55 am

         So, policy is secondary if you want to win the Treasury seats, right?
     • James 1.3.2

       27 August 2015 at 10:18 am

       The Jacinda thing I believe was more that there was a change in her as preferred PM (as per the caption on the graphic, and the subtitle).

       Its hard to make a headline about National being so far ahead of Labour, as that seems to be the ‘same old, same old’.

       If Labour had of jumped in the polls – then that would have been the push.

       Anything else is tinfoil hat material.
       • Sabine 1.3.2.1

         27 August 2015 at 11:02 am

         Who actually answered that ” jacinda preferred as Pm” Poll?

         I have not seen the poll, but would like to know who was polled? Regular Voters? Age Group of Voters? Gender of Voters, and Party Preferrence of Voters.

         i actually think nothing of Jacinda as I have no idea who she is, what she likes, etc etc etc.
         And for what its worth, i have never voted for a pretty face, male or female. I want my PM’s to be sound of mind and heart, I have no interest in their pretty faces and good bodies…these things fade with time.
         • aidan 1.3.2.1.1

           27 August 2015 at 1:49 pm

           used to watch Jacinda face of against the ghastly Bridges on morning t.v. was frustrating to see her counter his idiocy and bluster with calm and reasoned debate, often being talked over by bridges, imitating his idol Key, and the “interviewr” despite having all the facts and sound reasoning, how demorilising to be against pitted against the gnat-like ignorance of bridges and in the eyes of msm to be comparable to him.
   • Hami Shearlie 1.4

     27 August 2015 at 11:26 am

     The Nats were terrified of David Cunliffe – he was a real threat to them – Michelle Boag likes Andrew Little – obviously she thinks he’s no threat – the ABC crowd should have worked out that if the Nats were so keen to get rid of Cunliffe, that it was because he was a big threat to them, but the selfishness of the ABC crowd is breathtaking – they are all about securing their positions for the future and the public of NZ don’t seem to even rate a thought! The ABC don’t seem to care if they are in opposition, they still are on big money, still get their overseas trips each year etc – their petty jealousy of David Cunliffe robbed NZ of a government who cared about the average Joe and Joe-ess! Bryan Gould is right on the money in his latest Herald article – Jeremy Corbyn said in a recent interview that the Blairite approach in the Labour Party in the UK meant that there was no real difference between them and the Tories – no stark choice for voters – same here I think.
     • Matthew Hooton 1.4.1

       29 August 2015 at 11:41 am

       Yes, maybe it is time to Bring Back Cunliffe? The “BBC faction” has a nice ring to it too.
2. Tracey 2

   27 August 2015 at 7:17 am

   Note to Gosman; Seymour got everything he wanted from the changes to the opening hours for the world cup, so definitely a win for him and those who supported the move. You picked him as the winner when this first broke. And here he is. The BIG winner though, is Bruce Robertson on behalf of his members. he provided a masterclass in effective lobbying and use of a MP or Junior Minister.

   Interesting that national went from only wanting AB games and playoffs to agreeing to everything.

   “Key has earlier said the government could take up the bill on its own if it failed.

   On Wednesday morning he went further, telling TV3’s Paul Henry show he had spoken with Justice Minister Amy Adams about putting it on the order paper, which would mean only majority rather than unanimous support would be needed.

   It was not a simple fix as different bars have different opening hours.

   “In principle one option would be to say … for every All Blacks game for the quarters, semis, the finals, maybe the playoffs for third and fourth – all of those we have blanket coverage.”

   However, the case was not as strong for covering games not involving the All Blacks, Mr Key said.

   He believed where there was strong support for other teams, such as a number of South Africans living on the North Shore, bars would have already applied for a special licence to open outside normal hours.” 12 August 2015 NZ Herald
   • Lindsey 2.1

     27 August 2015 at 12:22 pm

     Interesting to see if the legislation about bar opening hours for RWC also changed the opening hours specified in many of the bars’ Resource Consents. If it just did Licensing hours, there may be trouble ahead. Some Plans allow for restricted numbers of exemptions, but those are limited.
3. Paul 3

   27 August 2015 at 7:18 am

   I read this article by Steve Keen, which I found very interesting. The excerpt I found fascinating was this.
   ‘This is the mechanism behind the empirical datum that the ex-banker and philanthropist Richard Vague identified in his book The Next Economic Disaster: Why It’s Coming and How to Avoid It. Richard looked at all economic crises across the globe over the last one and a half centuries, and found that every one of them occurred when the private debt to GDP ratio exceeded 1.5 times GDP, and when the ratio had risen by 17% or more over a 5 year period.

   China fits that profile in spades, as I pointed out in the last two columns. It’s surely under-reported private debt to GDP ratio rose from about 100% of GDP in 2008 to over 180% by the start of 2015, which is a rise of 80% over 8 years.’

   New Zealand’s ratio of private debt to GDP is 147%

   http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekeen/2015/08/26/why-china-had-to-crash-part-1/
   http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key_graphs/household_debt/
   • Ad 3.1

     27 August 2015 at 7:50 am

     Interesting article.

     Would be great to see Mr Keen run his graphs on New Zealand.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.2

     27 August 2015 at 11:17 am

     Engineers should find this argument easy to understand and informative, but tedious to read because the logic is so obvious. Economists are probably going to find it almost impossible to comprehend, clearly wrong, and they will probably be enraged by it.

     LOL 😈
4. Paul 4

   27 August 2015 at 7:18 am

   I read this article by Steve Keen, which I found very interesting. The excerpt I found fascinating was this.
   ‘This is the mechanism behind the empirical datum that the ex-banker and philanthropist Richard Vague identified in his book The Next Economic Disaster: Why It’s Coming and How to Avoid It. Richard looked at all economic crises across the globe over the last one and a half centuries, and found that every one of them occurred when the private debt to GDP ratio exceeded 1.5 times GDP, and when the ratio had risen by 17% or more over a 5 year period.

   China fits that profile in spades, as I pointed out in the last two columns. It’s surely under-reported private debt to GDP ratio rose from about 100% of GDP in 2008 to over 180% by the start of 2015, which is a rise of 80% over 8 years.’

   New Zealand’s ratio of private debt to GDP is 147%

   http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekeen/2015/08/26/why-china-had-to-crash-part-1/
   http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key_graphs/household_debt/
   • greywarshark 4.1

     27 August 2015 at 10:20 am

     @paul
     You state NZ ratio of private debt to GDP is 147%. But isn’t this private debt ratio to household disposable income not GDP? Or are they the same thing exactly?

     Treasury states: In the 20 years to 2011, total housing and consumer loan debt increased around six-fold in dollar terms. As a ratio of household disposable income, the percentage at June 2011 of 147% is about two and a half times that of 58% at March 1991.

     This looks bad for us – going from 58% indebtedness level to household disposable income in 1991 to 147% in 2011. That means debt beyond the total plus half again of all disposable income. Unsustainable spending using debt, and a rising trend on the graph.

     This is from google heading on GDP and household or private debt:: [New] Zealand – the increase in household debt ratios continued … increasing from 130 to 180 percent of GDP between 2000 …
     The PDF it comes from is a 13 page Reserve Bank bulletin which seems informative and understandable but I haven’t time to read it myself having more mundane personal management issues. I put the link for those interested and hopefully I’ll catch up later.
     http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/research_and_publications/reserve_bank_bulletin/2014/2014oct77_4.pdf

     (We need to understand this so we know what Blinglish is blurting about or not as the case may be. And yek probably hasn’t read it, as it is not his job. Prancing ponies just have to look good, go through their paces and pull the tails of the pony in front as a crowd-amuser!)

     Useful mages on Google – go to: nz private debt to GDP ratio

     This is a good read: A very good extensive article written June 2015 by Brian Gaynor Investment Columnist for the NZ Herald traverses NZ debt overseas and comparative with other countries, including comment on domestic household etc etc. well. Very cogently written and even I can understand it if I concentrate.
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11468289
     He writes:
     Debt is a complex issue and it is difficult to say with certainty whether a country or its Government has too much or too little debt. However, there are two important points that should be taken into account when considering this issue:

     • All sources of debt, including government and household, should be considered. For example Japan has a very high level of government debt and a low level of household borrowings whereas New Zealand is the other way around.

     • The ability to fund debt onshore is important. The Japanese Government is able to raise a high proportion of its borrowings from domestic investors whereas the New Zealand Government sources the majority of its debt from overseas investors.

     New Zealand’s net external debt position has improved in recent years because a number of investment funds, particularly the NZ Super Fund, have boosted the country’s gross external lending figures.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1

       27 August 2015 at 11:34 am

       The ability to fund debt onshore is important. The Japanese Government is able to raise a high proportion of its borrowings from domestic investors whereas the New Zealand Government sources the majority of its debt from overseas investors.

       In which Gaynor gets it wrong. A government doesn’t, and shouldn’t, borrow at all as it can always fund its spending by creating money.
5. les 5

   27 August 2015 at 7:51 am

   suggestions for question time…
   The right hon Andrew Little to the P.M….’can the P.M tell parliament when ,after 7 years in govt ,will his administration stop the puerile response of blaming Labour for all its own deficiencies and failures’?
   • b waghorn 5.1

     27 August 2015 at 8:05 am

     My thought on that is labour should mock key mercilessly about living in the past every time he does it, and tell him a good government is looking to the future.
   • Ad 5.2

     27 August 2015 at 9:48 am

     If I were Key I would respond:
     “When we’ve finished cleaning up their mess.”
     A pretty easy serve.

     Labour will defend harder from those charges when it starts looking to the future of their alternative government.
     Alter the discourse to the future.
     • Tracey 5.2.1

       27 August 2015 at 10:53 am

       How would you respond to Key?
       • Ad 5.2.1.1

         27 August 2015 at 11:33 am

         By forming a plan that is better and more convincing than theirs, winning the public, and winning the election. Not by wasting my breath in the House.

         I’ve written a post about what it could look like.
         • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1.1.1

           27 August 2015 at 11:36 am

           By forming a plan that is better and more convincing than theirs, winning the public, and winning the election.

           By that you mean having prettier people.
           • Ad 5.2.1.1.1.1

             27 August 2015 at 5:17 pm

             Try my more successful, substantive and demanding route on the separate post.
         • Barbara 5.2.1.1.2

           27 August 2015 at 2:02 pm

           Ad – everytime Labour comes up with visionary ideas and voices them out loud National just steal their ideas off them so Labour are vulnerable to them. National are parasites who suck off other people and are deficient in creating visionary ideas – they just sell everything including the kitchen sink.
           • whateva next? 5.2.1.1.2.1

             27 August 2015 at 6:44 pm

             hence National demanding policy details around election time, so they can offer a diluted (by taking from tax payer somewhere else) version at the 11th hour to fill the vacuum that is there governance
           • The Chairman 5.2.1.1.2.2

             28 August 2015 at 7:48 am

             Labour playing the centre gives National far more scope to adopt policy, Barbara.
     • b waghorn 5.2.2

       27 August 2015 at 3:22 pm

       Labour need to stop being scared of what the nats might do. They need a couple of sound bites a month to keep chipping away at key.
       • greywarshark 5.2.2.1

         27 August 2015 at 3:49 pm

         @bwaghorn
         I agree. Let National be challenged, and have more coming. Labour would be doing their job as Opposition and keeping the government somewhere close to the line and getting some action for the citizens if National choose to do something.
         Labour can then say good on them for trying, but we will watch them because they are dodgy.

         But stand up and have positive ideas, and say something positive about NZs. Say we, Labour, know that there is enterprise simmering away and not being encouraged. Say that National have not allowed ordinary NZs to shine, they are too busy making us a low wage, no wage economy.

         More apprenticeships, training wages still low but with a job promised immediately for a year on finishing so as to get into the work force. Have good employers taking on new entrants into working, for a set time. Monitor how things pan out for all. That would be a start, positives as well as valid criticisms of National. Perhaps a bit more contemptuous and humorous like Winnie.
       • McFlock 5.2.2.2

         27 August 2015 at 4:02 pm

         actually I think Labour are doing pretty well already.
         It hasn’t quite translated to the polls yet, but they really seem to be working together – it seems that the worst apples have either left or been brought into line.

         It’s been a solid year for them so far. Something to build on.
         • marty mars 5.2.2.2.1

           27 August 2015 at 9:59 pm

           I tend to agree with that – solid so far with a few wobbles and some definite hits.
6. whateva next? 6

   27 August 2015 at 7:56 am

   Smith trying suggest Green Party are just boring for questioning the bill turning the World Cup into one big Piss up??
   I wonder what Liver function Tests on National Party would say about that? They certainly act/appear as though they regularly enjoy more than a tipple.
   Nothing wrong with communal areas being made available to watch the games in the morning, BUT FFS WHY NOT SERVE COFFEE (and breakfast)???????
   • Tracey 6.1

     27 August 2015 at 8:19 am

     seymour talking about freedoms taken from people without justification. However extended licences exist for this. since may 2013 when the rugby schedule was announced any pub could apply. but they waited til the last minute to get it for free. now the police… ambulance services and healthcare will need to deal with any fallout. councils wont have the fees to offset increased costs… and street cleaning. If seymour cared about freedom for rugby people he would have added free to air for AB Matches.

     the Greens or Labour should try an urgent debate on that freedom…. shine a light on this being less about freedom than money.
     • Ad 6.1.1

       27 August 2015 at 9:49 am

       Move on. They won. There’s no upside to continuing.
       • Tracey 6.1.1.1

         27 August 2015 at 10:54 am

         You don’t support free to Air for games of national significance Ad, yet is it SO populist?
         • Sabine 6.1.1.1.1

           27 August 2015 at 11:04 am

           Tracey, this is not about it being Populist, this is about making money.
           Pubs selling piss is making money, showing games for free……fuck, thats heresy.
         • Ad 6.1.1.1.2

           27 August 2015 at 11:31 am

           I anoint you Patron Saint of Lost Causes.
   • James 6.2

     27 August 2015 at 10:22 am

     And a lot of bars will be serving coffee and breakfast.

     I know its a shock – but most people prefer not to go to work drunk.

     I will prob watch some games with mates in the bar (more fun than just being at home), but the thought of a beer first thing in the morning – ugh.
     • BM 6.2.1

       27 August 2015 at 10:26 am

       I’d say most of the whiny wowsers haven’t been into a bar since the 1980’s.

       People don’t go to a bar and get shit-faced any more and they haven’t done that for a long time.
       • Stephen 6.2.1.1

         27 August 2015 at 10:31 am

         So, never spoken to an emergency nurse, doctor or paramedic then?
         • BM 6.2.1.1.1

           27 August 2015 at 10:36 am

           People drinking on the streets, not in bars.
           Massive fines, if drunk people found on premises, if you’re even the remotest bit rowdy, the bouncer is chucking you out the door.

           Real zero tolerance to intoxicated people in licensed premises.
           • Tracey 6.2.1.1.1.1

             27 August 2015 at 10:55 am

             booze doesn’t vomit, people do. Right BM?
           • adam 6.2.1.1.1.2

             27 August 2015 at 11:55 am

             You argument does not preclude that the person did not get drunk in said bar.

             You understand how alcohol works on the physiological level right?
             • BM …

               27 August 2015 at 12:13 pm

               People don’t tend to get drunk in bars anymore.

               For a start drinks are so expensive and the bouncers watch every one like hawks.

               Most preload before they go out or they drink on the street or they get pissed at parties.

               The booze barns of yesteryear no longer exist.
               • McFlock …

                 27 August 2015 at 12:19 pm

                 they do in Dunedin.
                 • BM …

                   27 August 2015 at 12:21 pm

                   That doesn’t surprise me.
                   Dunedin is like stepping back in time 30 years.
                   • McFlock …

                     27 August 2015 at 12:46 pm

                     Courtney place wasn’t too flash when I was up there earlier this year, either.
           • McFlock 6.2.1.1.1.3

             27 August 2015 at 12:12 pm

             What. A. Load. Of. Shit.

             Now here’s what really happens in pubs outside of planet key: Pub fills punters with as much piss as possible.

             Kicks punter out when liquor starts to kick in: not the pub’s problem.

             Drunk person found on premises: victim of pre-loading before coming into bar. Very sorry we’ll try harder/security has been upgraded/staff member no longer works here.

             Yes, every so often a pub goes way overboard, consistently, so that the cops get annoyed and go out of their way to send half a dozen through the worst offending bar with the local inspector and log each infraction found. But that is not routine, that’s somebody deciding to teach someone a lesson.
     • whateva next? 6.2.2

       27 August 2015 at 6:48 pm

       exactly, so why spend time and +++media coverage ad nauseum shouting from the roof tops that people can now chose to get pissed all day and night….if they wish to, so what? is it really worth all the attention in parliament/media?? and anyone calling me a party pooper needs to get a real life instead of being a National fart catcher
   • RedBaronCV 6.3

     27 August 2015 at 8:28 pm

     Should have put a line in the bill making the government dry – why are the taxpayers buying their booze for them? And that would have been an interesting debate.
7. Wairua 7

   27 August 2015 at 8:55 am

   Are countries legally required to protect their citizens from climate change?

   A Dutch court recently ruled that greenhouse gas reduction is a state obligation.

   The government, the court said, must ensure that Dutch emissions in 2020 will be at least 25 percent lower than those in 1990 — the amount the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Fifth Assessment Report says is needed from industrialized countries if the world is to not exceed 2 °C (3.6 °F) warming and avoid the worst consequences of climate change. Dutch political leaders had been planning to cut emissions by up to 17 percent within the next five years.

   http://ensia.com/features/are-countries-legally-required-to-protect-their-citizens-from-climate-change/
   • nadis 7.1

     27 August 2015 at 1:46 pm

     Stupid law. Why not do it properly and make the Dutch reponsible too for all the CO2 wafting in from Eastern Europe? Actually, they could take responsibility for some of our cows too.
8. Tautoko Mangō Mata 8

   27 August 2015 at 9:04 am

   “Keyless Ignition Used in Millions of Cars a Deadly Safety Defect: Lawsuit

   Ten of the world’s biggest automakers were sued on Wednesday by U.S. consumers who claim the manufacturers concealed the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning in more than 5 million vehicles equipped with keyless ignitions, leading to 13 deaths.

   According to the complaint filed in Los Angeles federal court, carbon monoxide is emitted when drivers leave their vehicles running after taking their electronic key fobs with them, under the mistaken belief that the engines will shut off.”
   ….
   The defendants are BMW, including Mini; Daimler’s Mercedes Benz; Fiat Chrysler; Ford; General Motors; and Honda, including Acura; Hyundai, including Kia; Nissan, including Infiniti; Toyota, including Lexus; and Volkswagen, including Bentley.

   “It claimed that the 10 automakers have long known about the risks of keyless ignitions, which have been available in the United States since at least 2003, yet deceived drivers by marketing their vehicles as safe.
   http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/keyless-ignition-used-millions-cars-deadly-safety-defect-lawsuit-n416511
9. Penny Bright 9

   27 August 2015 at 9:06 am

   Am currently in the wilds of Wellington.

   Found out something rather fascinating at the Wellington Court of Appeal hearing yesterday – where the long-suffering, decent New Zealanders who are members of the Mangawhai Residents and Ratepayers Association have been trying to get the (former) Kaipara District Council held accountable to the ‘rule of law’.

   The Government-appointed Commissioners, who now are responsible for the ‘governing’ of the Kaipara District Council, have proceedings filed in the Wellington High Court, against an ‘officer of Parliament’ – the Auditor-General.

   These proceedings are CIV – 2014 – 485 – 11542

   Kaipara District Council v Controller and Auditor-General.

   That is the only information, to date, that I have been able obtain about these proceedings.

   Wouldn’t it be cheaper, and arguably more effective, for the Kaipara Commissioners to petition Parliament for an inquiry into the role of the Office of the Auditor-General (OAG) regarding their role in this debacle?

   Or – if the Kaipara Commissioners want to get some form of financial compensation / damages out of the OAG – is the Court the only, or best place to go?

   Perhaps one of the positive outcomes from this appallingly sorry saga would be the establishment of a genuinely Independent Commission Against Corruption?

   Interesting that it was the same MP responsible for presenting the democratically disgraceful Kaipara District Council Rates Validation Act, who was the Chair of the Law and Order Select Committee, which knocked back the petition of Grace Haden, calling for an Independent Commission Against Corruption?

   Who was that MP?

   The former National MP for Northland – Mike Sabine.

   Penny Bright
   • weston 9.1

     27 August 2015 at 7:39 pm

     and just to remind the readers not that they probably give a damn all the major parties voted for that validation bill including labour and the greens with the sole exceptions of nzfirst and i think the maori party which is a substantial part of the reason large numbers of mangawhai people supported winston in the recent northland by election
10. William 10

    27 August 2015 at 9:30 am

    The short list of flag designs has been reduced to 39.

    From https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/

    “Please note that the ‘Modern Hundertwasser’ design has been removed from the long list following a copyright claim by the Hundertwasser Non-Profit Foundation.”

    Oh dear. The process crumbles further .

    I don’t recall seeing this news anywhere, apologies if I’m late to the party.
    • Morrissey 10.1

      27 August 2015 at 9:40 am

      sinecure n. cushy number, gravy train, soft option, soft job, money for jam or old rope a lucrative sinecure with a massive government vanity project

      Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002
    • Ad 10.2

      27 August 2015 at 9:50 am

      Hundterwasser Trust crumbled, you mean.
      When the moist left retreat, they really run.
    • nadis 10.3

      27 August 2015 at 12:04 pm

      does anyone have a link to the hundertwasser flag?
      • William 10.3.1

        27 August 2015 at 12:33 pm

        The original Hundertwasser is here

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koru_Flag

        it is also included on the govt website as one of the thousands that weren’t chosen.

        The Modern Hundertwasser that has been removed didn’t have the black vertical stripe at the left, the centre of the koru was more bold (it didn’t have so many turns) and the transition of the green from the bottom edge was more gradual.
11. Morrissey 11

    27 August 2015 at 9:32 am

    An open letter from the Flag Con Panel

    “I’m saddened at one level that there seems to be quite a bit of reluctance to engage in the conversation.”—HANA O’REGAN, Flag Con Committee

    “The hope is to encourage public involvement in the process ahead of the vote, but hardly anyone turned up.”—JULIET SPEEDY, TV3 News

    E ngā suckers.

    Kia ora for the 10,292 designs you’ve suggested—even if half of them were from the same sad, obsessed, talent-free individual. Each of these (some quirkier than others!) was viewed by every Panel member—which gives the lie to the nasty allegations swirling around that this Panel is nothing but a sinecure for a bunch of nobodies who lacked the integrity to say no to putting their undistinguished names to a farcical vanity project for a frivolous and contemptible Prime Minister. We were, moreover, not impressed with the large number of “satirical” designs, such as the now infamous “laser Kiwi”, which were obviously intended to belittle this very serious process and to waste the Panel’s valuable time.

    In reviewing flag designs, first and foremost, we were guided by what an average attendance of four Kiwis at each meeting, some of them unfortunately “homeless” people who had turned up for the complementary tea and biscuits, told us when they shared what is special to them about New Zealand. A special thank you must be paid here to the tireless, albeit reluctant, local National Party branches throughout the country!

    The message was clear: you don’t really care. Many people wrote in saying: “Keep the Flag, change the Prime Minister”, but the Panel did not find that helpful. Others claimed that this panel was a collection of hand-picked dullards with the aesthetic sense of a kick in the head, the cultural knowledge of a concrete post and the historic appreciation of a goldfish. Again, we did not appreciate this kind of feedback or find it helpful.

    In finalising the long list we invited a number of cultural (including tikanga), vexillology (the study of flags), art and design experts to talk to us. These experts really impressed the Flag Consideration Panel, as can be seen by their comments: “That was really interesting” (Sir Brian Lochore, ONZ, KNZM, OBE); “Wow, just wow” (Beatrice Faumuina, ONZM); “That was so cool” (Julie Christie, ONZM), “Really interesting” (Stephen Jones) and “Piss off! How DARE you impugn my integrity? I —WE, goddammit, WE have all worked HARD! Just FUCK off!” (Kate De Goldi, Deputy Chair)

    We encourage you to make sure you are enrolled to vote so that you can take part in this nationally significant process. We certainly hope you show more enthusiasm than you did when you failed to come to our heavily advertised consultation meetings.

    Ngā mihi nui kia suckers.

    Regards,

    Flag Consideration Panel:

    Prof John Burrows (Chair), ONZM, QC
    Nicky Bell
    Peter Chin, CNZM
    Julie Christie, ONZM
    Rod Drury
    Kate De Goldi (Deputy Chair)
    Beatrice Faumuina, ONZM
    Lt Gen (Rtd) Rhys Jones, CNZM
    Stephen Jones
    Sir Brian Lochore, ONZ, KNZM, OBE
    Malcolm Mulholland
    Hana O’Regan.

    https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/open-letter/

    http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/low-turnout-for-first-public-flag-change-meeting-2015051716#axzz3jxQrsRgM
    • Weepus beard 11.1

      27 August 2015 at 9:50 am

      Enjoyed that thanks Morrissey.

      I have been wondering lately about a way to sabotage the first referendum . It would take a huge social media campaign for all people loyal to the New Zealand flag to vote for a rank outsider in the first referendum but nothing is impossible.
      • James 11.1.1

        27 August 2015 at 10:25 am

        “I have been wondering lately about a way to sabotage the first referendum”

        Yes, God forbid that people who want a change have the opportunity to do so.

        So much easier to try and sabotage something that you dont agree with.
        • Weepus beard 11.1.1.1

          27 August 2015 at 10:33 am

          James, it’s perfectly reasonable and legitimate to vote strategically in such cases. The current government has taught us that repeatedly when directing Epsom voters to vote for the ACT candidate of the day.

          I’m sure you’ll agree that the fairer way to run this popularity contest would have been to have the one referendum with the New Zealand flag included.

          This process has been engineered to provide maximum exposure and momentum to a marketing logo and it’s time for those loyal to the flag of New Zealand to fight at the earliest opportunity.

          What do you expect those loyal to New Zealand to do? Not vote in the first referendum? Much better for us to vote for a logo design which will have the least chance of success against the New Zealand flag.

          That is a sensible voting strategy, plain and simple.

          People who are disloyal to the flag have the opportunity to vote too, nobody is stopping them.
        • Morrissey 11.1.1.2

          27 August 2015 at 10:36 am

          Your comments never fail to amaze me. You don’t seem to quite get the point of anything that anyone posts here. Why don’t you give Leighton Smith a ring? He’s more your level.
        • Tracey 11.1.1.3

          27 August 2015 at 10:58 am

          Interestingly the Nats won’t support Sue Moroney’s earlier BIll on parental leave, which Seymour supports, but will draft their own bill giving the same thing. It’s almost like it’s a game they play to make sure they get credit for someone else’s ideas and work. Is that what you mean by sabotage?
        • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.4

          27 August 2015 at 2:52 pm

          Yes, God forbid that people who want a change have the opportunity to do so.

          So, you agree with Labour and a whole lot of us that the first referendum should be asking if we should actually change the flag?
      • Sabine 11.1.2

        27 August 2015 at 11:13 am

        this does not need sabotage.

        1. referendum, those who want to vote should vote for the design they prefer
        those that want to keep the Flag, should abstain, and not vote.

        2. referendum, those who want to change the flag should vote Yes
        those who don’t want to change the Flag should vote No.

        Or as P.Winston, (the NZfirstler that everyone is so afraid of) says, put a big fat KOF on it Keep Our Flag, but that would most likely invalidate the vote, and I would venture such a vote will not be counted.
        AS there will be no option in the First Referedum such as :Keep current design!! I personally will abstain for the first vote and only Vote in the second referendum.

        Simple as that.

        No sabotage, but a fair and democratic process……Most likely we will end up with a Trademarketet Design, that will costs million of dollars to change on every uniform, piece of stationary, and other assorted gimmicks, but hey, the PM and his sidekick the most Honorable and Honest Bill English, aka Mr. 19% have all the money they need to pay for that stuff, and most likely they will make a buck or two for themselves after all thats what they do. The only ones paying for these shenanigans is us……but hey….Dear Leader wants a new Flag, and his groupies, enablers and voters will happily see their tax dollars spend on a Kitchen Towel.
        • Weepus beard 11.1.2.1

          27 August 2015 at 11:20 am

          I’m not prepared to throw in the towel just yet.

          My idea is simply to take the fight to John Key and his supporters before their logo gets traction.

          God knows there’s been precious little of that lately.
          • Sabine 11.1.2.1.1

            27 August 2015 at 11:27 am

            Not throwing in any towels, but it is clear that this will come to vote, no matter what.
            And I can only imagine the ‘outrage’ if no one actually participates in the first referendum.

            Really, think of it. The first referendum is to get people involved, here choose your design, …..now defend it in the next referendum.

            If people are actually not participating (lets say only 10 – 15 % would actually vote) How much of a ManDate would our dear Leader have to continue?

            Also, what is it with National Government that they want to change the Flag, last time it was under Jenny Shipley….really what is it?
            • Weepus beard 11.1.2.1.1.1

              27 August 2015 at 11:38 am

              Sabine, it will come to campaign before vote.

              I believe we haven’t seen the true size of the marketing campaign Key will throw at this once the first referendum is over and his cheap, poorly designed logo has been chosen to go up against the New Zealand flag.

              They will throw everything at this because there’s much more at stake now than the flag. A loss for Key here would damage him personally. Having consulted Crosby-Textor, they will begin to attack the very heart of demographic of those loyal to the New Zealand flag.

              The disloyal changers will not care one bit if the turnout is 10-15% at the first referendum. The fewer the better for them I imagine, to ensure that an ill-informed choice is made.
              • freedom …

                27 August 2015 at 1:42 pm

                ” and his cheap, poorly designed logo has been chosen to go up against the New Zealand flag”

                No-one ever asks the PM why his preferred design is an existing commercial product with legal copyright. The media, and the flag-change supporters, never mention how the Kyle Lockwood designs are an existing commercial product currently under copyright. A copyright that is co-incidentally scheduled to expire in [late?] 2015 .

                A question for the legal minds out there:
                As the Lockwood designs are under a legal copyright should they not have the copyright logo visible beside them when images of them are published,? When in included in the long list for example?
                • Draco T Bastard …

                  27 August 2015 at 3:42 pm

                  A copyright that is co-incidentally scheduled to expire in [late?] 2015 .

                  Copyright doesn’t expire until after the death of the author plus 50 years (which would be extended to 70 under TPPA).
                  • freedom …

                    27 August 2015 at 4:30 pm

                    This is a screenshot of the Silverfernflag website as of 4pm today.
                    http://imgur.com/JMRXznU

                    I have highlighted the relevant information that suggests the copyright expires this year and also the information that shows how the stated copyright requirements are not being met with the publicity and promotion of the relevant designs.

                    If I am incorrect in my understanding of the information as it is presented then I am, as always, happy to be corrected.
                    • Draco T Bastard …

                      27 August 2015 at 5:07 pm

                      Yeah, I knew what you were talking about. That’s a shorthand way to say the stuff on the site is copyrighted and that you need to get permission to copy it. It has nothing to do with when the copyright expires.
                    • freedom …

                      27 August 2015 at 5:28 pm

                      It is precisely because of the normal copyright protocol that I wonder why the obvious questions surrounding copyrighted images being included in the flag referendum process have not been addressed.

                      If , as Draco suggests, the copyright is not expiring in 2015 then we are left to wonder what the plan is if any of the Lockwood designs are selected as the new flag.

                      His designs are an existing commercial product that has been on the market for a decade.

                      If a copyrighted design of his is chosen:
                      Is he just going to sign over any rights to lost future earnings ?
                      Is he going to get offered compensation for the lost earnings?

                      Is a single journalist ever going to raise the issue with the PM? or anyone for that matter?
    • rod 11.2

      27 August 2015 at 5:20 pm

      How much are they being paid by the taxpayers for being on the Panel.
      • Morrissey 11.2.1

        27 August 2015 at 6:25 pm

        MEMO

        FROM: Julie Christie, ONZM

        TO: rod

        MESSAGE: MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS YOU FUCKING OIK. WHAT DOES IT MATTER HOW MUCH I GET? YOU THINK YOU COULD DO AS GOOD A JOB DO YOU? YOU FUCKING OIK.
      • b waghorn 11.2.2

        27 August 2015 at 6:42 pm

        http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11413938
        $640 a day not bad for being given a job with no real target
        • Morrissey 11.2.2.1

          27 August 2015 at 6:56 pm

          The target was to eat all the taxpayer-funded food on offer.

          $640 a day, plus unlimited free tea and all the biscuits you can eat, since hardly anybody turned up to consume them. I understand that Beatrice Faumuina, ONZM, Lt Gen (Rtd) Rhys Jones, CNZM and Malcolm Mulholland really tucked in to the goodies on offer.
12. travellerev 12

    27 August 2015 at 10:32 am

    Gerald Celente: They Blame China But That Country Is Just The Canary In The Coal Mine
13. Morrissey 13

    27 August 2015 at 10:33 am

    John Key visits a hospital, asks some penetrating questions

    Actually, it’s his ideological soulmate George Osborne, but it could be Key, or Jonathan Coleman….
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1440612776.html
    • greywarshark 13.1

      27 August 2015 at 10:51 am

      Just thinking about a politician visiting a hospital and being penetrating.
      Brings to mind a Filipino phantom surgeon who cuts into the patient’s body with his hand and pulls out all the useless entrails. That idea might have come from the children’s board game where they play at being a doctor!

      Idea! The Filipino practice would solve our unmet health needs problem. So National – seeming like smart action, while really being a hoax and a farce.
    • Draco T Bastard 13.2

      27 August 2015 at 3:03 pm

      Yep, that’d be about right for all National and other conservative MPs.
14. greywarshark 14

    27 August 2015 at 10:38 am

    CYF report commented on by Children’s Commissioner who is doing a sterling job. How long will he last?
    The Children’s Commissioner’s first annual report has strongly criticised Child, Youth and Family for what it calls a dump and run culture of neglect
    Good RadioNZ report. Must make sure that ditto question doesn’t apply to them, or him for that matter.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/282515/kids-probably-no-better-off-in-state-care

    Commissioner Russell Wills commenting on paucity of data! Hah!
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201768177

    And Anne Tolley Social Development Minister, who seems to be agreeing with the criticism. Along the lines that government is no good at this. Ditto with housing?
    Slide out and leave it to the no- tenderer mercies of private profit makers or fundamentalist capitalist charities? Next step I’ll bet.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/201768178
    • Deadsmurf 14.1

      27 August 2015 at 1:03 pm

      I think we can expect a lot more of the narrative that government is not very good at delivering social services and there will be better outcomes from the private sector delivering services.

      This government has a lot further that they will want to go down this path and the end game will be terrible outcomes for the most vulnerable in our society.

      Ministers’ love this as they have less accountability and they can achieve their aims at arms length.
      • Draco T Bastard 14.1.1

        27 August 2015 at 3:05 pm

        +1
      • marty mars 14.1.2

        27 August 2015 at 10:07 pm

        + 1 yep good points from you and grey
15. Tautoko Mangō Mata 15

    27 August 2015 at 10:39 am

    The latest from NASA on sea level rise with videos

    http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-science-zeros-in-on-ocean-rise-how-much-how-soon
16. grumpystilskin 16

    27 August 2015 at 10:54 am

    Crikey, read this latest column from Dita de Boni in the herald:
    I’m a bit lost for words on the brazen attack, it’s about bloody time and surprising. I can’t help but wonder what was edited out?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11503338
    • Tracey 16.1

      27 August 2015 at 11:03 am

      The way she wrote “thank you for reading” made me wonder if it is her last.
      • adam 16.1.1

        27 August 2015 at 2:07 pm

        It’s her last. I always liked her, did not always agree with her, but always liked her.

        It is a worrying trend for the herald. There was a time when the business section of the paper did not lie, or spin. It was one of the few sections in the paper that knew it’s place, and had to talk directly to it’s target market honestly and forthrightly.

        In the last few years that part of the herald has died, forget right wing bias, forget the cost of print, etc. This is what has killed the herald. Not sure who made this editorial change, but it has been fun to watch, spin and lies being added to the business pages, to bring it in line with the rest of the newspaper.

        No wonder sales had fallen away. Even it’s support base, can not trust it.
    • Ovid 16.2

      27 August 2015 at 11:04 am

      It’s her valediction. It was announced a few weeks ago that she was being made redundant. I guess you no longer have to hold your tongue when you’ve got nothing to lose.

      That said, I’m somewhat optimistic for the Herald. Their new editor, Murray Kirkness, was a good editor of the Otago Daily Times and led the campaign to keep neurological surgery services at Dunedin Hospital. The editorial line at the ODT has been reasonably critical of the government in recent years.
    • Kevin 16.3

      27 August 2015 at 2:35 pm

      “People have asked me over the years why my columns have become more strident in tone; more “biased against” the Government. The answer’s that the examples of contempt for the public, hypocrisy, and flat-out bulls***tery have become too overwhelming to ignore.”

      Says it all really.
17. Kay 17

    27 August 2015 at 11:11 am

    At least the Europeans managed to get a document released.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ttip-controversy-the-european-commission-and-big-tobacco-accused-of-coverup-after-heavily-redacted-documents-released-10473601.html

    A lot of that article reads oddly familar…
    • Tracey 17.1

      27 August 2015 at 11:20 am

      The brits and UK are getting a lot of information compared to us. For some reason that Mapp and Groser can’t or won’t explain, secrecy of negotiating positions doesn’t matter over there…
18. Kriss X 18

    27 August 2015 at 1:22 pm

    John Key is a Jew banker. As such his loyalty is to other bankers, Jews and the rich. And yeah… he is a Jew.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-zealand-jewish-pm-wins-third-term/

    [lprent: Hi, I see that you (or your clone) have stopped sending me those incoherent bigoted rants as junk emails. I’d strongly suggest that if you want to raise your paranoid fantasies on this site that you do so in Open Mike (like all of the other nuts do) where they don’t divert from posts on other topics. And you’d better reread the policy again.

    Otherwise I lock you off the site again, except harder and more nastily. Learn to live within this sites rules or live without writing here. This is your warning.

    Moving this thread to Open Mike as offtopic. ]
    • Ad 18.1

      27 August 2015 at 1:54 pm

      LPRENT CAN WE WATCH THIS SHIT PLEASE

      [lprent: I do, every time he turns up under any name. ]
      • Kriss X 18.1.1

        27 August 2015 at 2:11 pm

        What “shit” is that ?
      • Kriss X 18.1.2

        27 August 2015 at 2:44 pm

        “and more nastily”

        I have no idea what you are on about. I have never sent you anything and do not even know who you are. I have never been locked out. Why the hypersensitivity and hysteria ?

        I must say I am surprised at your reaction. Clearly you don’t like the loyalties of John Key being questioned, or is it that you side with the rich, bankers etc ? Hard to fathom, have I missed something ?

        Or MAYBE you don’t like me mentioning he is a Jew ?. Perhaps you should send your angry rant to the Times of Israel. Hint: Don’t for get to use trigger words like “anti-semite” and Holocaust™. The Times of Israel love being called names, being a conservative Hebrew news service and all.

        Good luck with your endeavors to fight free speech. Should come in handy next time the chosen ones drop a shell on a school.
        • McFlock 18.1.2.1

          27 August 2015 at 3:05 pm

          “free speech” does not include forcing others to publish your hate.
          • Kriss X 18.1.2.1.1

            27 August 2015 at 3:12 pm

            What “hate” ? Explain you accusation or withdraw it.

            My comments about Key are pretty mild compared with others on this site. I even voted for him !

            His loyalties ARE in question and I am left to wonder where they lay.
            • McFlock 18.1.2.1.1.1

              27 August 2015 at 3:18 pm

              You can make no demands of me.
              If you genuinely do not know why your comments are rightfully offensive, I doubt I am skilled enough as a teacher to explain it to you.

              You’re more suited to the Daily Mail comments section.
              • Kriss X …

                27 August 2015 at 3:33 pm

                So no answer then.

                Amusing that a person who is so sensitive about bankers, Key and the rich etc being held to account, chooses to hang out at the Standard !
                • McFlock …

                  27 August 2015 at 3:46 pm

                  I’m sensitive about none of those things.

                  People who recycle racist caricatures and are too cowardly to admit their bigotry, on the other hand…
                  • Kriss X …

                    27 August 2015 at 4:18 pm

                    Again you make accusations with zero evidence and with no supporting argument. You can not even say why?

                    I voted for Key. I won’t again, but I did. The Jew is not a race, it is a religious cult.

                    People like you have blood on your hands. You refuse to speak out about any wrong done by Jews. Syria, Libya, Iraq are all human rights disasters because of the zionists lobby and Jews using America to destroy Muslim countries. And don’t even mention Palestine. You are a vile bigot and nothing more. They are not gods chosen and they are owed no special consideration.

                    John Key has the – right of return – [sic] to Israel. He is a Jew. It is quite proper to question the mans loyalties given his back ground and associations.
                    • McFlock …

                      27 August 2015 at 4:36 pm

                      Yeah, I reckon you’ve made it clear to everyone exactly what you are.
                    • Draco T Bastard …

                      27 August 2015 at 4:46 pm

                      Zero evidence?

                      Yeah, fuck off troll.
            • greywarshark 18.1.2.1.1.2

              27 August 2015 at 3:31 pm

              KrissCross
              You seem to like stirring. You’ll do that and then say oh I am such an innocent free-speecher, if anyone takes offence that’s their choice. You seem to be sensitive enough about yourself.

              It’s too easy to start a fight about contentious issues. We generally try to think how such issues can be made less so. It’s a good place to learn what others think, to discuss that, and do some thinking around your favourite subjects, if you are up to that.
              • Kriss X …

                27 August 2015 at 3:38 pm

                If I mentioned JK was a Baptist would you have written that ?

                Was the Times of Israel “stirring” ?
                • McFlock …

                  27 August 2015 at 3:52 pm

                  “Baptist banker” doesn’t quite have the same pedigree as what you actually wrote, and you’d have to be a moron to not know that.
                  • Kriss X …

                    27 August 2015 at 4:21 pm

                    1. Key is a banker.

                    2. According to the TIMES OF ISRAEL he is a Jew.

                    Would you prefer we tell lies ?

                    Jewish bankers do indeed have much to answer for. We should not be shy about addressing the issues. Your own intense burning hatred of free speech and honesty aside.

                    Just the mere mentions of the chosen master race and the place goes nuts. Even the moderator waded in and told a pack of lies in some sort of attempt to discredit me. Saying all sorts of things happened in the past that never did, accusing me of sending him messages and so on ! Hilarious.
                  • northshoredoc …

                    27 August 2015 at 4:23 pm

                    @McFlock – wouldn’t surprise me if it was that loon Bluehorshoe posting under another account, can I suggest DNFTT ?
                    • McFlock …

                      27 August 2015 at 4:37 pm

                      possibly, although BH is more into boasting about their intellect (against all available evidence).

                      This one just seems to enjoy being a bigot and then pleading ignorance to an absurd degree.

                      Meh. At least the sewer won’t be able to argue that this fucker turned up and their statements were accepted, but yeah – kris klan just likes the funny looks he gets for being racist. Done.
                    • Kriss X …

                      27 August 2015 at 4:38 pm

                      Ah yes because only one person could possibly be critical of the chosen ones and they MUST be crazy eh ?

                      How about a shot at the issue instead of the messenger bigot ?
                  • Kriss X …

                    27 August 2015 at 4:34 pm

                    Mr Flock, is the Times of Israel racist and full of hate for mentioning John Key is a Jew ?

                    Come on at least attempt one question. I will even let you call me an anti-semite so you can feel nice and [more] smug. 🙂

                    http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-zealand-jewish-pm-wins-third-term/
      • Kriss X 18.1.3

        27 August 2015 at 2:46 pm

        Ad, Still waiting for that answer. Are you struggling with it ?

        What seems to be the issue ?
      • Realblue 18.1.4

        27 August 2015 at 7:23 pm

        Perhaps anti Semite posts should be removed. It’s pretty offensive.
    • Chooky 18.2

      27 August 2015 at 1:54 pm

      he also comes from a state house in Christchurch provided for him and his family by the generosity of New Zealand taxpayers and the New Zealand social welfare system

      ….as Andrew Little so eloquently reminded parliament and all New Zealanders yesterday

      …this needs to be repeated again and again

      GO ANDREW LITTLE !
      • dv 18.2.1

        27 August 2015 at 2:03 pm

        Add didnt nz take his mother in as well as a refugee.
    • Kriss X 18.3

      27 August 2015 at 2:39 pm

      I have no idea what you are on about. I have never sent you anything and do not even know who you are.

      I must say I am surprised at your reaction. Clearly you don’t like the loyalties of John Key being questioned, or is it that you side with the rich, bankers etc ? Hard to fathom, have I missed something ?

      Or MAYBE you don’t like me mentioning he is a Jew ?. Perhaps you should send your angry rant to the Times of Israel. Hint: Don’t for get to use trigger words like “anti-semite” and Holocaust™

      Good luck with your endeavors to fight free speech. Should come in handy next time the chosen ones drop a shell on a school.
      • Stuart Munro 18.3.1

        27 August 2015 at 8:04 pm

        You don’t understand – the problem with Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot is not who they were but what they did. They did bad things.

        The problem with John Key is that he is a liar, a thief and an abuser of the limited authority he temporarily bears.

        His religion is not at issue, though his race, as a subnormal hyper-intelligent shapeshifting reptilian alien only one step ahead of the tacky luggage industry is certainly vexed. We need not resolve this however – he does bad things. This is ample reason to be done with him.
    • adam 18.4

      27 August 2015 at 5:24 pm

      Do yourself a favour and do a dna test on your self – you may just be surprised by the results. Kriss X.

      That said, anyone who brings up Jewish conspiracy is off the reservation. Because the reality is most conspiracy’s are exposed within in a few years, none longer than 30. So to think there is some grand conspiracy spanning over a century, shows you don’t know anything about the nature of conspiracy’s. People naturally gossip, brag or feel cheated – then talk. That is ultimately why conspiracy’s fail and/or are exposed.
19. Penny Bright 19

    27 August 2015 at 1:44 pm

    Just found out about this – spreading the word …..

    Tomorrow – Friday 28 August 2015 – is your last opportunity to:

    “Give feedback on the Open Government Partnership

    …..

    New Zealand is part of the Open Government Partnership (OGP), a group of countries working to make government more open, accountable and responsive to citizens.

    The NZ government has created a 2 year Action Plan showing how it’s going to promote open and transparent government in New Zealand.

    They’re asking for feedback on the Action Plan, to find out if New Zealanders think that the government’s meeting the OGP goals.

    The consultation closes on 28 August 2015.

    Between now and the end of August 2015, anyone in New Zealand can provide feedback on New Zealand’s Action Plan. You can provide feedback on any, or all, of the Action Plan commitments, or provide more general feedback on the OGP.

    Give general feedback on the OGP and New Zealand’s Action Plan
    Provide feedback on:

    the Government’s Better Public Services (BPS) Results programme
    BPS Result 10

    the Government ICT Strategy and Action Plan to 2017

    ICT Strategy Action Area 4

    the 2013 TINZ National Integrity System Assessment Report

    the Kia Tūtahi Relationship Accord

    The government will use your feedback to create a self-assessment report for the OGP.

    OGP member countries must report on their progress regularly. New Zealand’s self-assessment report will be published after 30 September 2015, with another report due in June 2016.

    The report will show:

    what the government has done to meet the grand challenges and principles of OGP,
    progress so far,

    feedback from New Zealanders on the initiatives, and

    what the next steps are.

    If you’d like more information about the Open Government Partnership or the Action Plan, contact NZOGP_ActionPlan@ssc.govt.nz.
    ———————————————————————-

    Penny Bright
    • Draco T Bastard 19.1

      27 August 2015 at 3:25 pm

      Over on NoRightTurn

      http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2015/08/open-government-were-doing-it-wrong.html
      http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2015/08/open-government-insulting.html
      http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2015/08/open-government-still-doing-it-wrong.html
20. millsy 20

    27 August 2015 at 11:50 pm

    There are plenty of reasons to not like/hate John Key.

    Being a Jew is not one of them.
    • Kriss X 20.1

      28 August 2015 at 7:20 am

      No one has suggested otherwise. Nice grab for the moral high ground though.
      • Morrissey 20.1.1

        28 August 2015 at 7:28 am

        Fool, isn’t there an ACT party meeting or a Sensible Sentencing Trust klaven that you should be at?

        Hurry away now!

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