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Price of milk your fault

Written By: - Date published: 6:16 pm, September 15th, 2011 - 198 comments
Categories: capitalism, farming, food - Tags: , ,

I thought we were paying “international prices” for milk, but perhaps not. In a move today that just lost them the public relations war forever…

Consumers at fault for high milk prices – Fed Farmers

New Zealand consumers are at fault for the high price of milk because they have not “utilised their power to shop around”, Federated Farmers told the select committee conducting the parliamentary inquiry into the price of milk today.

Federated Farmers dairy chairperson Willy Leferink says the “inquiry is not necessary” and is “quite confident the price is set right”.

“Are New Zealanders paying too much for milk? We don’t think so,” he says, “consumers have not utilised their power to shop around”.

Well I’m glad we got that all sorted out then.

198 comments on “Price of milk your fault”

  1. r0b 1

    Just want to clarify that I’m in no way “anti farmer”.  I’ve spent my whole life camping annually on farm land, I grew up with the local farming families, I’m forever in their debt.  Salt of the earth one and all.

    But – Fed Farmers – seriously – what were you thinking? 

    • Scott 1.1

      Yeah, how does one shop around in a monopoly?

      • Bill 1.1.1

        “Yeah, how does one shop around in a monopoly?”

        With a bags of futility.

        • Rusty Shackleford 1.1.1.1

          There is about a 80c difference in price between the brands for a 2L bottle of milk.

          Where is the monopoly? There are at least 5 brands of milk.

          If you mean Fonterra, you are wrong. They are a monopsony (single buyer), not a monopoly (single seller).

          • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1

            Nice one, Rusty. So really, the only milk consumer in the country is Fonterra? 
             
            How’s the milk market in Somalia? I hear they’re distributing it for free…

            • Rusty Shackleford 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Fonterra doesn’t consume milk.

              blah, blah, blah North Korea.

              • McFlock

                step by step, bucko – fonterra BUYS the milk, and is the only purchaser. Then what does Fonterra DO with the milk?

                Fonterra then SELLS the milk. And because it bought ALL the milk, it pretty much has a monopoly in the NZ market (or at least dictatorially controlling market share). 
                  
                 
                Are you seriously incapable of assessing so little information that you reckoned fonterra bought the milk, with no concept of what it did with it afterwards? Or were you just throwing definitions out there in pretence of an approaching-average IQ?

                • Rusty Shackleford

                  They don’t buy all the milk. As insider pointed out there are a few other small players. Also there is nothing stopping another firm from opening (I don’t think) in order to buy milk from farmers to then flick on to the distributors. In the distribution of milk, there is no monopoly.

                  • davidc

                    They dont buy any of the milk because they already own it.
                    Farmers own the milk and also own Fonterra.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Sounds like a cartel to me. It won’t persist if farmers find they can get a better deal by selling to other firms. The only way a cartel can persist in the long term is if it is legislated for by the govt

                    • lprent []

                      You should look more closely at cartels. You are referring to one of the two types – the government licensed one. They always fall within a generation when they outlive their economic utility (usually in building a infrastructure) in democracies. In other forms of states usually a rebellion or revolution induces change.

                      The other type is more dangerous, it forms during new technology introductions or merging of dominant players in an industry. The thing that sustains them is efficiencies of scale, especially in capital costs, ability to take losses to drive out competitors, and the ability to simply buy competitors. Usually the only way to break up that type of cartel once it has formed is through usually through regulation/legislation – the exact opposite of your theoretical and rather naively impracticable ideas.

                      Very very ocassionally through the last coupleof thousand years you will see a cartel get broken up by changes in technology if the people running the cartel get too stupid.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Hi lprent. Can you please give a specific example of the first kind?

                      I had a big write up for you on the second kind but deleted it because I realised it better referred to quasi-monopolies like Apple, Google and Standard Oil. In that A. They weren’t really monopolies and B. provided amazing utility for people.
                      Instead, again I’d like to ask for an example.

                    • lprent []

                      I don’t have a lot of time or energy at present. So I will give you the best example I know of in the last thousand years of a cartel colluded between state and private industry.

                      Whenever I think of the first type of cartel I usually think of the chartered companies that were used to extract profit from trade routes. Probably the most extreme example was the Dutch East Indies Company which had probably the longest record I have ever seen for that type of government mandated organisation.

                      Whilst they were originally setup as a direct government mandated monopoly for the Dutch. After the original monopoly expired there were a number of other ventures set up as competition but in the Dutch and amongst other competitors. However a combination of political pressure, outright political bribery, some judicious ‘piracy’ by privateeers, and some classic monopolistic practices kept their opposition to a minimum for a very long period.

                      While their structure in theory was very like a modern listed company (at least for that period of history), internally it acted more like a cartel between moderately and nominally friendly competitors. Shareholder groups would provide vessels that would not only carry the companies freight, but also their own private freight as well (reading the shipping account differences between the DEI accounts and the dutch customs are pretty illuminating).

                      Anyway, it was probably one of the most interesting cartels in history. Extremely good for looking at the leverages between state power and the ‘private’. It was also the model that most companies tried to leverage their way into over the following centuries.

                      Offhand I cannot think of another government based cartel on a similar scale against the economies of the time. The Spanish in the 16th and 17th century while pulling in a much higher revenue were largely directly crown based enterprises using extractive techniques. The various cartels that Colbert and his successors set up in France from the late 17th century (and arguably led to revolutions a century later) were individually smaller.

                      There are much larger ones these days, but less against the economies they are embedded in.

                  • McFlock

                    So if they don’t buy all the milk, why bring up “monopsony”?
                    Oh, it must be on page 3 of the RWNJ handbook: derail a conversation by obsessing over definitions that turn out to be irrelevant anyway – when the real conversation is about the  facts on the ground: New Zealanders are charged too much for milk they need to buy, and the dairy farmer response is “ooo then don’t pay so much”.
                     
                     
                    Milk is a basic staple that we are being overcharged for. You RWNJs can wank about definitions all you want, but that’s a fact. Farmers don’t have to pay their way for the pollution they cause, but we get fucked for every ml of milk we buy.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Let’s say they buy 90% of the milk. If one company SOLD 90% the milk to customers (which no one does) then you would be claiming they are a monopoly. I’m just saying that on your terms they are a monopsony, not a monopoly.

                      “Milk is a basic staple that we are being overcharged for.”
                      In what way? Plenty of people do just fine consuming other beverage and food stuffs. Personally I prefer cream. Milk spikes my blood sugar too much. What would be a fair price for milk?

                      “Farmers don’t have to pay their way for the pollution they cause,… ”
                      I agree with this. It sucks when property rights aren’t clearly defined.

                    • McFlock

                      On my terms? I replied to YOU. If Fonterra buy all the milk and aren’t the end user, but on-sell it to other people, then from that point in the market they are a monopoly. And the greater the market share, the closer they approach your inapplicable-to-the-real-world tight definition of “monopoly” or “monopsony”.
                        
                      And if, after reading the article and comments here, you are genuinely asking “in what way” we are being overcharged for milk, you’re a moron. If you’re being disngenuous, you’re just a fucking troll and all the platitudes you’ve previously made about wanting honest debate were lies.
                       
                      Credibility is a scarce resource, and you’ve used all yours up.
                        
                       

                    • What do you mean by “overcharged?” The price label said $3.50 but you were actually charged $3.70? If so, take it to the small claims court if they won’t refund you. However, if you mean by it that there’s some absolute value of milk based on your personal assessment of what you would prefer to pay for it, and shops are charging more than that, well, gee, that’s too bad. On that basis, I’m getting overcharged for beer and petrol every week.

          • insider 1.1.1.1.2

            They are not even a monopsony. There are independent co-ops with their own suppliers – Tatua and Westland the most prominent. That said, smallish market share for them

            • Rusty Shackleford 1.1.1.1.2.1

              One large supplier and a couple of small market share competitors is usually enough for the left to start jumping up and down about “monopolies” (and the phony right as well).

              • McFlock

                that’s because the condition you describe usually fucks the “market” so badly as to be, in practise, no different in result.

                • Rusty Shackleford

                  Depends. Probably true in the case of Fonterra (I don’t know what the legislative provisions behind the company are, seems like a cartel to me, the govt aren’t going to allow that without their say so).

                  If it is a voluntary state of affairs with no coercion from the state or the company, it will be beneficial for all concerned. As in the case of Standard Oil (I find it to be unlikely in the case of Fonterra).

                  • McFlock

                    rerun. Thought you might have been off preparing new material, but I guess not

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      The truth doesn’t stop being true. No matter how many times you scream “SOMALIA!!!!!!” or “RWNJ!!!!!!!” at the top of your lungs.

                    • McFlock

                      You never address the truth.
                       
                      Maybe one day you’ll want to stop derailing threads with pedantry, and then take a look at the real world (of which Somalia is a part without state interference, and by your assertion was better off for it. The fact pretty much the rest of the planet is much better off than Somalia obviouslyy still does not compute). In the real world, not your theoretical randian wankaradise, the availability of milk or healthcare isn’t a banal intellectual exercise. For many of us, it’s a real fucking issue. Dick.

    • They were probably thinking that if someone is stupid enough to pay a shitload extra for the same Fonterra milk because it’s packaged as a brand rather than as budget plain-label stuff, more fool them. The average price of milk means jack shit, it’s the minimum price that you’re paying, or yes you’ve only yourself to blame.

  2. Fermionic Interference 2

    What I find difficult to come to terms with is, NZ milk and derived products, at times being cheaper in the UK than in NZ. So somehow it costs less to transport a product halfway round the world than just down the road??

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      That seems to happen quite a bit with NZ produced food – it’s cheaper to buy it thousands of kilometres away than it is to buy it just down the road.

    • Jimmy 2.2

      Its no mystery, the UK Government subsidises the milk products for the UK consumer, you cant make a direct comparison.

      • stever 2.2.1

        Really??/ The UK govt subsidies NZ milk for UK consumers??? Really??? Why would they???

        • Jimmy 2.2.1.1

          Ok maybe I didnt make myself clear, they subsidise Uk milk for the UK consumer, thats why UK milk appears cheaper than NZ milk sold in NZ.
          Liquid NZ milk is not available for sale in the UK.

          • rosy 2.2.1.1.1

            They subsidise the dairy industry, not the consumer. Not the same thing at all,. I’m not sure that it means lower prices for consumers, or richer dairy companies and overproduction.

            • Herodotus 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Was fortunate to be able to shop in Scotland recently. 2l of milk on sale for 0.86p normal price was 1.70-1.80 pounds. Even if they (Tescos in Oban) were selling it as a lost leader , I ask when if ever did a supermarket use milk as a lost leader ?
              As a side issue – we could not find anything that was more expensive in Scotland or London supermarkets than what we pay in NZ (sure I accept 1:2 exchange rate helps). Could even buy Oyster Bay Sav B 2010 on sale for less than 7 pounds normal price around 11pounds, and for a wine snob Ata Rangi pinot 2009 for less than 40 pounds in Peebles ( a wee wee village 25 miles outside Edinburgh) ps Drink Responsibly !!!

          • millsy 2.2.1.1.2

            Perhaps you should e-mail Maggie and ask her why she forgot to to address that…

          • Rich 2.2.1.1.3

            Isn’t available anywhere AFAIK. Fresh whole milk isn’t a transportable commodity, which is why Fonterra make lots of powder, yoghurt, UHT and the like.

            I believe that most UK farm production goes for domestic whole milk consumption, while a small percentage of NZ milk is used in this way. Also, you can get yummy premium organic milk from single herds (sometimes farm bottled) in the UK, but there’s pretty much none of that here.

  3. I saw them on TV3. I immediately realised that it was entirely my fault, that I had been a naught boy, took myself down to the woodshed for a severe disciplining.
    At least Sue Bradford hadn’t outlawed self-abuse. (and it’s not the sort that make you go blind!)
     
    What a bunch of tossers! They didn’t say, “It’s not us Gov’” and point the finger at the two supermarket owners who are really gouging on milk prices.
    The Farm Worker Union had no problem pointing the finger at the supermarkets.
     
    Which suggests that the Fed Farmers are in cosy a relationship with the supermarkets and didn’t want to offend them.

  4. Draco T Bastard 4

    Irrationality of the Free-Market

    A decision made on less than full information is an irrational decision and this is the mode as most people just don’t have access to the full information which, of course, results in the market being irrational.

    Shopping around to find the best deal has a cost and it’s entirely possible that a lot of people just can’t afford that cost. Or, as I’ve put it before, for the free-market to work everyone needs to be omniscient.

    • Jimmy 4.1

      The cost of shopping around is minimal, let your fingers do the walking.

      • Luxated 4.1.1

        Lets see, I could go to a Foodstuffs supermarket or a Progressive one, at both places I’ll have a choice between buying Fonterra milk or more Fonterra milk with a couple of smaller produces thrown in if you’re lucky. Just where are you supposed to go when the milk is produced by a monopoly and is distributed by a duopoly?

        • Jimmy 4.1.1.1

          Their is a big differance in the price of 2L milk depending on were you purchase it from!

          • Rusty Shackleford 4.1.1.1.1

            In a free market people (don’t have easy access to) perfect information. Under what system DO people have easy access to perfect info?

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.2

        And if they don’t have a phone? Or perhaps they just don’t realise that the vege shop (which may not be in the phone book) also sells milk. Or they just don’t have time to go anywhere else when shopping. Or…

        The lack of knowledge about the market cause the market to be irrational.

        • Vicky32 4.1.2.1

          And if they don’t have a phone? Or perhaps they just don’t realise that the vege shop (which may not be in the phone book) also sells milk. Or they just don’t have time to go anywhere else when shopping. Or…

          Or they have to walk or bus everywhere, and carry everything they buy as I do). That pretty much limits where I can shop…

  5. Pascal's bookie 5

    They should shop around for carbon credits.

  6. drx 6

    Any one going to Aussie soon? Could I get you to pick up some milk for me?

  7. Rodel 7

    Only one way to lower the price. Don’t drink the stuff!
    We’re the only animal that eats another creature’s milky fluids and it’s not good for you anyway—- contributes to obesity etc. Wish cheese was cheaper though.

    • Jimmy 7.1

      We are the only animal huh, best you tell that to the birds, pigs, dogs, hedgehogs, rats, mice and cats that hang around the dairy shed waiting for the spilt milk.

    • …and it’s not good for you anyway—-

      Well, scientists reckon the genes for lactose tolerance spread so quickly because it provided such an enormous evolutionary advantage over the non-lactose tolerant. But what would they know?

      • burt 7.2.1

        The evolutionary impact of that would have been miniscule had there been supermarkets and fast food outlets around at that time.

      • Colonial Viper 7.2.2

        Well, scientists reckon the genes for lactose tolerance spread so quickly because it provided such an enormous evolutionary advantage over the non-lactose tolerant.

        In other words, people and their kids died off early because of dairy products and lactose intolerance, and were never able to successfully reproduce?

        Sounds like great food.

        • Carol 7.2.2.1

          so, what? Those of us born with a touch of lactose intolerance are some sort of Neanderthal throw-back? There’s still quite a lot of lactose intolerance around today.

        • Psycho Milt 7.2.2.2

          In other words, people and their kids died off early because of dairy products and lactose intolerance, and were never able to successfully reproduce?

          No, people who could digest a readily-available and very nutritious food source were better able to survive than people who couldn’t digest it. Natural selection isn’t actually that hard a concept to grasp if you make the attempt.

          Those of us born with a touch of lactose intolerance are some sort of Neanderthal throw-back?

          Alleles are agnostic about whether they make you a better person or not. As burt points out, the survival advantage conveyed by lactose tolerance is pretty much non-existant in the developed world now – I mentioned its evolutionary advantage in earlier times only as an example of why it’s ridiculous to claim milk is not a good food.

  8. tc 8

    Ah rodel…..cheese is made from same milk, just in case you didn’t know.

  9. randal 9

    farmers are their own cost accountants so they view the world a certain way most of the time. However too much 245t and other shit has done something to them over the last 40 years. They seem to have lost connection with other people and a few points on the bell curve too.

  10. tc 10

    The whole things a farce anyway, makes the govt look like they care and Fonterra’s has a monopoly and it’s always whining about having to supply to smaller concerns at regulated prices.

    Want cheap milk don’t buy in supermarkets, use Fonterra’s other brands sold through gas stations at much better prices. At least you’ll cut out the duopoly’s margins that way….thanks again rebstock.

    • Jimmy 10.1

      Yes Fonterra do whine about having to supply smaller concerns, thats because the smaller concerns are generally overseas owned, they pick up New Zealand milk for cost without having their own farmer supply base and export it for profit, no win for NZ at all.

      • insider 10.1.1

        No they pay Fonterra farm gate price plus 10c/kgms. Westland and TAtua are local co-ops. Any non NZ processors are relatively small.

  11. Bill 11

    Can the chart showing the drop off in international milk prices immediately after Fontera froze the price of milk in NZ (’cause they’re so altruistic), maybe be re-posted with regards to this?

  12. “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    NZ the land of milk and honey. Yeah right!

    NZ the land that borrows a $billion$ a month so big government can play the fool.

    NZ is one very sick land, just look at child abuse stats and Helen Clark’s new corrupt UN communist role.

    NZ is a thicko land of tit pullers.

    [lprent: the auto moderation identified your comment as potential spam or trolling. Perhaps you should reread it to find out why a dumb machine would think that? ]

    • mik e 12.1

      Now borrowing bill the double dipping dipstick from dipton is at it again , borowing another $2billion to pay farmers carbon taxes . That brings Govt debt up to $76 billion in 2014 .Borrow and hope light at the end of the tunnel last person leaving Nz turn out the lights because the power is to dear.Key is Muldoon in drag watch world cup cat walk.

    • Rich 12.2

      The auto-moderation is pretty much onto it. Yay for dumb machines.

  13. vto 13

    How is it that they can charge the highest price in the world for their milk but we cannot charge the highest price in the world for our labour?

    • burt 13.1

      You can charge whatever price you like for your Labour – just find 4m people prepared to pay that price and you have the same situation as milk. I’m sorry that Fonterra is a better negotiator than you but that’s the way it is.

      • vto 13.1.1

        You’re a fool burt. There is nothing like the “same situation” as with milk and that is the entire point.

        I will accept your dimwit proposition when that same milk is also limited to 4m people in NZ.

        ha ha ha – lets see what the price of milk would become if it was all limited to sale within NZ.

        Think fool think.

        • burt 13.1.1.1

          Oh I get it… Milk has a retail price and people continue to pay it – but that’s very different than a labour cost because…. You hopeless socialists – you think you have some divine right to tell other people what they can buy and sell stuff for and how much profit they should make.

          If you don’t like the price of milk – don’t buy it. If tomatoes were $300/kg I guess you wouldn’t think growing your own was a better idea than buying them – you would just want regulation to make them affordable for you. Grow up !

          • vto 13.1.1.1.1

            Foolishness confirmed.

            You go on about a level paying field free market mechanism being in operation and that should be sufficient etc. But, as I have pointed out here in this thread and you have studiously ignored, there aint no such level paying field free market.

            Fonterra can sell its goods across the world. We cannot sell our labour across the world.

            That is the fundamental flaw. Go and dwell on that and its implications, and perhaps do some brain growing up yourself.

            • burt 13.1.1.1.1.1

              Right, I get it. It’s very different because when you walk into a shop and see milk there is a person pointing a gun at your head making you pay the price it is being sold for. Hell here was me thinking you could walk out of the shop without buying milk.

              • vto

                Okay, so keep ignoring my point about the complete lack of comparable so-called level paying fields and free markets, even though that is the base on which Fonterra and you rest your flawed argument, and instead keep pushing your own barrow about not having to buy a staple.

                On your wee point – milk is a staple of our community’s diet, like bread and a couple of other things. Staples, just like electricity, imo sit outside the generally accepted bounds of free market activity. Or should. It aint like choosing to buy a tv burt. Can you see the difference?

                Anymore useless one-liners? Or maybe an answer to my particular point above ?

                • burt

                  You can own a goat and milk that ? Some people even milk sheep… Oh no that’s not an option is it – you want milk to be set a price that ‘sounds OK’ to you because them nasty farmers earn too much and it’s not fair when you can’t get paid the price for your own labour that you think you are worth.

                  • vto

                    You sound like one of those kids with their hands over their ears yelling “not listening, not listening, not listening”.

                    You and Fonterra claim comparable free markets and level paying fields, as justification for the price setting mechanism. But they don’t exist. Your argument is flawed.

                    I’m going. Gonna go buy a cow and stick it in the hallway. Ffs.

                    • burt

                      You have a hallway – nice. Some people live in places too small to have a hallway – should the govt provide them a bigger house as well ?

                    • vto

                      What are you on burt?

                      In case you hadn’t noticed the setting of the milk price is already by way of government intervention, set up at the time of the Fonterra cooperative (i.e. socialist) being formed.

                      Got anymore useless one-liners? Wake up fool.

                    • burt

                      That’s right – the glorious one-size-fits-all model that is the cornerstone of socialism – it fails. Tell me again how the socialist way is the best and try not to shoot yourself in the foot explaining at the same time why milk prices are too high.

                    • vto

                      I would have thought you would consider that Fonterra was not a failure. i.e. the socialist cooperative model.

                      You clearly don’t know much at all about what you ramble on about.

                    • burt

                      vto

                      My opinion of Fonterra is irrelevant to the price of milk.

                    • vto

                      burt, you have been unable to provide a decent answer to anything in this. You merely throw one-liners of no relevance to the particular issue.

                      Regarding your opinion of Fonterra being of no relevance – you asked a question about socialist means which I answered by way of example being Fonterra. And now you claim it is of no relevance? Irt is you burt who are of no relevance. What a waste of space.

                    • burt

                      vto

                      I would have thought you would consider that Fonterra was not a failure.

                      What I consider of them is irrelevant to the price of milk. It really is.

                      However, Fonterra is in no way a failure for the shareholders. It’s a failure for the consumers. It’s a monopoly – of course it’s a failure for consumers.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      It’s a monopoly – of course it’s a failure for consumers.

                      Wrong imo.

                      Capitalist monopolies are failures for the country, not just consumers.

                      And a country which is led in a way to leave things to the market is also going to suffer serious failures. Because the ‘market’ is going to do what is good for it (and specific groups of players within that market), not what is good for the country.

            • burt 13.1.1.1.1.2

              vto

              Fonterra can sell its goods across the world. We cannot sell our labour across the world.

              I’m sorry to hear that it’s impossible for you to work anywhere else but NZ.

              • vto

                Smart-arse dick replies burt. You know the point I am making.

              • burt

                Yes, you can’t charge the price you want for your labour and that’s not fair when Fonterra get to charge the price they do for milk. I do understand that.

  14. Jimmy 14

    They dont charge the highest price in the world for their milk!

    • Jimmy you keep popping up and down like a Don Nicholson.

      Can you explain to me why NZ is the most efficient milk producers in the world yet our milk is cheaper to buy overseas than here? 

      • Jimmy 14.1.1

        Yeah I am having a bit of fun, Glad Don Nicholsons gone though, and thats the myth, milk is not cheaper overseas than here, in some countrys their are reasons milk appears cheaper than here, such as goverment subsidisation and in Australias case, loss leading by supermarkets.

        • vto 14.1.1.1

          jimmy you answered as if the word “can” was “does”. Do try again

          • Jimmy 14.1.1.1.1

            Condesention noted.

            • vto 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Pull it out jimmy. What’s your answer to my question? Third time lucky..

              • Jimmy

                Sorry whats the question? you want me to tell me why you cant charge the highest price for your labour, and fonterra can charge the international price for milk?

                • vto

                  Within NZ, yes.

                  no. 4 coming up

                  • Jimmy

                    Supply and Demand.

                    • vto

                      Wrong. Well, maybe 3 out of 10. You highlight one of the problems in a minor and probably unintended way.

                      The supply and demand arrangements for each are completely and utterly unequal and have no similarities. Yet that is one of the base arguments that Fonterra rests its case on – that it is international market supply and demand which it should be entitled to rely on in setting its domestic price. That is not the measure that should be used – we cannot afford to pay international prices and one of the reasons for that is that we are not allowed to sell our labour at international prices (where as Fonterra can and does). That is the unfairness.

                      among others

                    • clandestino

                      actually having lived in a few countries I can vouch for the fact NZ milk tastes horrible as in reconstituting they water the bejaysus out of it.

                      don’t drink anchor in malaysia, terrible stuff

                    • vto

                      mmm, glass of milk and sleep sounds mighty good right now.

                      ‘Tis the problem though.. international price setting for a base commodity in a domestic setting.

                    • Jimmy you have this really frustrating Winston Peters type ability to answer a slightly different question and then jump up and down like a jumpy up and down thing and preening yourself at the smartness of your answer.

                      OK answer me this.

                      Kiwis pay huge amounts to maintain pristine roads to dairy farms, to repair the damage caused to our environment by these dairy farms and to market our country perhaps misleadingly as clean and green so that our dairy farms can sell their product for a premium.

                      Do you think that locals should be cut a bit of slack?  After all milk 30 years ago was less than 1% of its current price. 

                    • clandestino

                      vto i really don’t think you want to sell your labour at the ‘international price’. the majority of the world’s workers are most definitely not as privileged as us (which is not saying we shouldn’t be fighting for higher wages here, the anti-total free trader i am)

                  • clandestino

                    hmmm, vto…isn’t what he is saying essentially correct though? Other countries receive bulk milk powder and reconstitute it I would hazard a guess watered down like an american beer all while loss leading the shit out of it (they compete against locally subsidised stuff), while we get fresh milk at the full cost (of production and that which can be got on the international market).

                    the question is subsidy, either the government does it or the retailers should be through competition, but as has been said the duopoly don’t work that way, they probably never loss lead milk unless it’s about to curdle.

                    government could subsidise i suppose, but i dont drink much milk so i’m a bit on the fence on that one

        • rosy 14.1.1.2

          Just paid 0.89 euros ($NZ1.50) for a litre of low-fat, added calcium milk in a local Viennese grocery – not known for it’s low prices – I’m not sure anymore how that compares with NZ prices.

          • freedom 14.1.1.2.1

            less expensive over at yours rosy, , locally on the shelves I have seen $1.80- $2.25 lt

            • clandestino 14.1.1.2.1.1

              isn’t ‘low fat’ just a euphemism for ‘more water’?

              plus, you have to remember the effect of the common agricultural policy on dairy prices in Europe, brussels probably went halves with you on the purchase.

              • rosy

                The reason I mentioned the type is because it is more expensive than standard milk. No other reason. I’m also not sure that EU policy has an effect on retail prices. It certainly does on farm prices, but that’s not the same thing. There is some criticism that the subsidies end up mostly in the hands of dairy corporation (the most obvious example is Nestle) not the small farmer or consumer. But I haven’t got a clue if that’s the case.

                Oxfam have a good overview of the problems with dairy subsidies here [pdf] I can’t see much about distorting retail prices within the EU.

                The direct beneficiaries of EU dairy subsidies are processing and trading companies, not farmers. These companies receive more than one billion euros each year from European taxpayers in export subsidies alone. Yet it is impossible to obtain a breakdown of which companies receive what subsidies – highlighting the lack of transparency in how taxpayers’ money is spent through the CAP subsidy system. For example, the UK Rural Payments Agency told Oxfam that it is unable to disclose which companies receive dairy subsidies because this information is ‘commercially sensitive’. The receipients include such companies as Nestlé and Arla Foods, and we urge greater transparency about the level of subsidies paid to these companies.

                Anyway, I was just interested to see if it was cheaper, seeing the discussion on this thread was about whether NZ had relatively cheap milk.

              • rosy

                isn’t ‘low fat’ just a euphemism for ‘more water’?

                low fat is fat removed, not added water

                • Rusty Shackleford

                  But if you have 100ml of regular and 100ml of low fat, what has the fat been replaced with? Air?

                  • McFlock

                    Because fat is the only solid in milk?

                  • rosy

                    It’s just separated, nothing is added (unless you have extra calcium, which gives it a bulkier feel in your mouth)

                    “what has the fat been replaced with? Air?”

                    Is this the sort of logic that comes about from never having seen a bottle of milk with the cream sitting on top instead of being homogenised?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      It’s the type of logic that comes with being a RWNJ.

                    • McFlock

                      OH! Maybe dehydrated milk is all he’s ever seen, living in the Somali Randian paradise? He just thought the powder was fat, so making it low-fat is just a case of watering it down.
                      He also thinks the Fonterra logo is a big red cross.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      “SOMALIA!!!!!!” “AYN RAND!!!!!!”. Why don’t you find something more original to carp on about?

                      Rosy, can you truly explain what is wrong with my logic, other than shouting “RWNJ!!!!!” or some such? If I’m so wrong, it should be easy. If you have a litre of milk, with the cream, if you take the cream away the bottle of milk is smaller in terms of mass. What replaced the fat?

                    • McFlock

                      You see, every time I feel tempted to believe that you genuinely understand or accept the concept of “logic”, I find it useful to remember the previous logical victories you have achieved.
                      I must confess, your line “Infant mortality improved in Somalia under a stateless system.” still makes me chuckle at it’s consummate stupidity.
                      The math on relative concentrations is pretty obvious – if you remove the 4% fat from milk that’s 87% water, then the remaining solution is ~9.5% solution of the protein and carbs that were 9% of the initial volume. Which you would know if you weren’t in character as a moron.

                    • rosy

                      Nothing replaces the fat, it’s simply separated – before it’s packaged, so there is just more low-fat milk and the cream is used elsewhere.

                      So if you start with e.g. 1.1 litres of full-fat milk, you end up with say (I don’t know the volumes) 1 litre of low-fat milk to be homogenised, pasteurised and packaged, and 100 ml of cream to be used elsewhere.

                      Enlarge this diagram to see the relationship between raw milk, low-fat milk and cream.

                      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Milkproducts.svg

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      “Infant mortality improved in Somalia under a stateless system.”
                      If you can find something factually wrong with the statement, be my guest. You could accuse me of confusing correlation with causation, but there is nothing factually wrong with it.

                      Even at 87%, milk is still mostly water. That it outweighs the other components by such an amount, I feel comfortable saying that milk is just water. If I was only 13% wrong in everything I said, I would be happy enough.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Rosy, why didn’t you just point that out in the first place instead of being a fucking prick about it?

                    • rosy

                      I’ve been doing a bit or reading about Somalia as well – it appears that the northern area is run by a government that is trying to get recognised as a separate country – Somaliland – separate from Somalia.
                      http://www.somalilandgov.com/
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland

                      I’d hazard a guess that all the infant mortality rate improvements are here.

                    • rosy

                      “Rosy, why didn’t you just point that out in the first place instead of being a fucking prick about it?”
                      What!!!!! I did!!. All I’ve done in the 2nd comment is expand on the first. That’ll be the last time I’ll bother.

                    • McFlock

                      Rusty, if you can add anything new to the Somalia thread I linked to, feel free.
                      I really like the way you get incredibly anal over definitions of monopolies vs monopsonies that cannot be 0.00001% less than 100%, yet if it’s 87% water it’s near enough to water.
                      Water is milk is beer is cocacola is a solution of weedkiller. No problems there.
                       
                      And were you really blaming Rosy because you were talking bullshit?

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      “I’d hazard a guess that all the infant mortality rate improvements are here.”

                      Dunno, could be true. Would be interesting to find out. It’s is interesting to note that the attempt to impose a govt on Somalia has lead to a marked decline in the quality of life of Somalians.

                    • McFlock

                      Well, despite the lack of evidence for your suggestion, it’s still nothing new.

                      [edit] oh, that was rusty commenting to Rosy – missed that clicking directly from the comments box. Must be tired. Off to bed shortly,methinks

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      As far as farmers are concerned, Fonterra is a monopsony, for the vast majority of them. I’ll bet you believe Standard Oil was a monopoly despite it being less so than the case of Fonterra.

                      I even conceded their were other firms who process milk.

                      As for Rosy, I was trying to draw her out in order to point out that she shouldn’t act like a prick just because that is the prevailing mode of behavior on this blog.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      I gave evidence in that thread.

                    • McFlock

                      So the price of milk for NZ consumers is relevant to Fonterra being a monopsony for farmers (as opposed to monopoly for consumers) how?
                        
                       

                    • rosy

                      It’s is interesting to note that the attempt to impose a govt on Somalia has lead to a marked decline in the quality of life of Somalians.
                      Except in the Somaliland bit that imposed it’s own government and democratic structures on itself, didn’t fall into anarchy and strife, and which is why it has unofficially seceded.

                      btw
                      As for Rosy, I was trying to draw her out in order to point out that she shouldn’t act like a prick just because that is the prevailing mode of behavior on this blog.
                      At no time in that little exchange was I trying to act like a prick. Read it again.

    • Lanthanide 14.2

      Since you seem to know, if they don’t, who does?

      Or if you don’t know who charges the “highest”, you must know at least one company/country that charges higher. So who is it?

      • Jimmy 14.2.1

        To much effort right now to find out, however in the western countrys NZ was in the bottom quarter for milk price.

  15. vto 15

    How is it that they can charge the highest price that they can possibly get in the world for their milk but we cannot charge the highest price that we can possibly get in the world for our labour?

    • Don’t know how things are now, but when I was at school this is a question that anyone who’d studied year 10 economics could answer without a second thought.

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        they taught you about crony cartel capitalism at highschool? :shock:

        • McFlock 15.1.1.1

          Decile 10 private school :)

        • Psycho Milt 15.1.1.2

          There’s something hilarious about the outrage with which left-wingers tend to view Fonterra, given that it’s a farmers’ co-op. You love the idea of workers owning the means of production until some of them actually do it, at which point you start calling it “crony cartel capitalism.”

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.2.1

            I actually think that Fonterra is an excellent example for the Left to follow.

            To make Fonterra an even wider co-op, I suggest that dairy workers (on farms and in factories) are also allowed to become shareholders.

            Good idea eh?

            I’m glad you seem to realise that corporate money has always acted in socialist and co-operative ways – for their own wealthy communities that is, not for the rest of society.

            • Psycho Milt 15.1.1.2.1.1

              Actually, you’re describing “people” and “people” there, not “corporate money” (farmers? really?) and “wealthy communities.” There’s no reason a co-operative should act other than in the interests of its members.

              • Colonial Viper

                There’s no reason a co-operative should act other than in the interests of its members.

                And that’s exactly how co-operatives like the international banking terrorists think.

                I mean, its not like we all live in the same society is it?

                PS Fonterra is corporate money, it is one of the largest for profit enterprises in the entire country, one which just happens to have farmers has the large shareholders.

                • It’s exactly how people think. If a union didn’t put its members’ interests ahead of non-members there’d be no point whatsoever in creating one. Same goes for pretty much any co-operative venture – in fact it’s pretty much the definition of a co-operative.

                  Still, I’d be interested in how far you think society should go in setting prices – for instance, if some businesses are struggling to make ends meet and finding it difficult to pay their workforces, should the govt step in to stop these workers “overcharging” for their labour and enforce a lower pay rate?

    • clandestino 15.2

      wage arbitrage

  16. Ari 16

    While this is absolute and utter bull excrement, at least it might have the side-effect of making people think about giving up milk.

  17. kriswgtn 17

    Well as the Dairy Workers Union said on news this morning
    yep the price is to too high

    who would you believe
    really no question is there

    Fed farmers???? hhahaha

    All those fuk s cud come out with was

    Consumers can shop around

    NO we subsidize you wankers-
    Time for a days boycott unless you’re feeding babies and kids

    the rest boycott for a day
    lets see if they like the power of the consumer since no one else inc consumer affairs are interested

    • insider 17.1

      The price is too high?

      So how mch should it be and what do you base that on?

      • kriswgtn 17.1.1

        I base it on what the UNION guy said.The Union the farm workers belong too
        The workers who milk the cows not some imported smarmy asshole who came across as a total fuking egg.
        related much ?

  18. belladonna 18

    Dont drink it. Read online about the connection between dairy and cancer, heart disease, arthritis etc. Look at the health statistics for dairy consuming countries and you will see we are at the upper end of most of the negative health outcomes.

    • As mentioned above: lactose tolerance is a prime example of how rapidly a genetic mutation can spread in a population if it bestows a significant evolutionary advantage. In this case, the survival advantage provided was enormous. Vegans may not like it, but facts aren’t really interested in whether you like them or not.

      • Lanthanide 18.1.1

        “In this case, the survival advantage provided was enormous. Vegans may not like it, but facts aren’t really interested in whether you like them or not.”

        We’re talking about modern society with modern diseases here. Lactose tolerance may have let more and more people live past their childhood and teenage years to the point where they could reproduce.

        But that’s got little to do with modern health ailments caused by over-indulgence of diary products.

        • Puddleglum 18.1.1.1

          Yes, selective advantages are entirely relative to the environments of selection.

          The significant point of the evolutionary argument – and why this example is the poster boy for gene-culture co-evolution – is that dairying came first, lactose tolerance came second. That is, in a dairy-herding society it doesn’t pay to be lactose intolerant. Logically, that doesn’t mean that everyone should drink milk (i.e., become a ‘dairy=herding’ society in terms of consumption of foodstuffs).

          Also, it’s not necessarily the case that it was drinking milk that was selected for – the most powerful selective pressures could have come from other factors associated with (dairy) herding (e.g., availability of regular doses of protein via meat from the herded animals).

          • Psycho Milt 18.1.1.1.1

            I suspect that people with no lactose tolerance would have little use for a dairy herd. Animal-herding came first, certainly, but the spread of lactose tolerance is due to the huge survival advantage it conferred on the people with it, because it enabled use of an extremely nutritious food source.

            And yes, it doesn’t logically follow that everyone should drink milk – feel free not to. But it does logically follow that milk is not bad for your health.

            We’re talking about modern society with modern diseases here.

            Or, in other words, we’re talking about cranks, food faddists and hypochondriacs with too little else to worry about here.

            • Draco T Bastard 18.1.1.1.1.1

              But it does logically follow that milk is not bad for your health.

              No it doesn’t. It may help survival in the first few years but that does not mean that it helps with long term good health. Saturated fats, which are in dairy, do line the walls of arteries boosting blood pressure and putting extra stress on the heart eventually causing heart problems.

              • Rusty Shackleford

                “Saturated fats, which are in dairy, do line the walls of arteries boosting blood pressure and putting extra stress on the heart eventually causing heart problems.”

                Utter tripe.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Rusty proving his ignorance again.

                  • Rusty Shackleford

                    If you listen to the corn lobby you will be ignorant, yes.

                    • McFlock

                      Coming from “non-fat milk is just water” Shackleford, I’m not sure the allegation of ignorance is particularly persuasive.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      I never said that, but milk is something like 90% water. So, yes. Milk is just water.

                    • McFlock

                      I was paraphrasing your idiocy here.
                       
                      FFS, at least stop contradicting yourself. If “milk is something like 90% water. So, yes. Milk is just water”  (actually milk is 87% water, 4% fat, and the remainder protein and carbohydrates), then Fonterra, by being processor of 95% of NZ milk, has a monopoly on milk processing in NZ, and your pedantry earlier was just duplicitous bullshit.
                       

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Go back to North Korea you left wing fuck face (LWFF for short)!!!!!! Did I win? Seems to be your tactic at least.

                      Fonterra processes most of the milk in NZ. They also buy most of the milk from producers in NZ. That makes them a monopsony. There is no monopoly on the distribution side because there is more than one place who will sell you milk. And they even sell it at different prices. You could even buy raw milk from the farmer for cheaper if you wanted to, but it is probably illegal (it sure as hell is in the states).

                      If the distributors didn’t like the price they were getting from Fonterra, they would buy it from the farmer and process it themselves. Or some other firm would. If milk was $1.50 above the market rate, as CV seems to think it is, someone would come in and make a killing. But they don’t so the price of milk in NZ obviously isn’t that far above the market clearing price.

                    • McFlock

                      I can by milk from many stores. THEY get the milk from Fonterra. Fonterra therefore has a domestic monopoly, because there are many buyers of its milk. And it has in excess of 90% of the market, 90% being your magical point where nothing else exists and milk is, in fact, just water (you were a bit like a reverse Jesus, there).
                       
                      As for the problems of new market entrants competing with a monopoly, lprent already went into that. So you obviously have the memory of a goldfish, in addition to being a sociopath with subnormal abstract concept processing skills.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Which brand of milk does Fonterra sell?

                      lprent gave one example of a quasi-cartel/monopoly. It could be half true in that Fonterra is probably enshrined in some form of legislation (I haven’t a clue in what way), but it has nothing to do with the price of milk if it was left to the market.

                    • McFlock

                      Which brands does Fonterra sell? Here. Pretty basic to find out.
                       

                      Anchor (milk)
                      Anchor Calciyum
                      Anlene
                      Tip Top, Kapiti and Mammoth Suuply Co. (icecream)
                      Country Goodness
                      Yoghurt-2-Go, De Winkel, Fresh and Fruity, Anchor Symbio (formerly Metchnikoff), Slimmers Choice and Mammoth Supply Co. (yoghurt)
                      Primo (flavoured milk)
                      eon, Zing, Whole (pure/flavoured water)
                      Mainland, Kapiti, Ferndale and Galaxyg, Perfect Italiano (cheese)
                      Fernleaf

                       

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      I thought we were talking about milk. Are ice creams and Primos really necessities?

                      wtf? you even included flavored water?

                    • McFlock

                      I just threw in all the brands. I assumed it’s all ~90% water, so it’s all the same…

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      There’s not much water in butter.

                    • McFlock

                      So to recap, we’ve established that fonterra process 94% of NZ milk, and do sell it on, so could well come close to a real-world definition of “monopoly”, and you’re worried about the water content of butter.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I never said that, but milk is something like 90% water. So, yes. Milk is just water.

                      Hey dude I’ve just mixed you a 90% water 10% paraquat soda. Skull it down for me mate, its really ‘just water’ :D

                      There’s not much water in butter.

                      Don’t do much cooking do you?

                      http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=OW19090630.2.73

                      Looks to me like NZ butter has carried a water content of 12%-16% since the start.

                      But “that’s not much” right? A 12%-16% paraquat mix would also not be much. You think?

              • A lot of foods have saturated fats in them, and not just the animal-based ones. Humans are full of them, too. In fact, you try living without them. The fact that nutritionists have certain dogmas about fats isn’t really relevant to whether milk is worth the money you pay for it or not.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Dairy in excess is bad for you but that doesn’t seem to have an effect on price – probably because the farmers keep telling people that it’s good for them.

            • Puddleglum 18.1.1.1.1.2

              Hi Psycho Milt,

              I suspect that people with no lactose tolerance would have little use for a dairy herd.Animal-herding came first, certainly, but the spread of lactose tolerance is due to the huge survival advantage it conferred on the people with it, because it enabled use of an extremely nutritious food source.
              I think that statement is misleading because it implies that any human would gain an adaptive advantage by taking up milk drinking.

               From the link I mentioned above:

              A strong correlation exists across cultures between the frequency of lactose tolerance and a history of dairy farming and milk drinking12,89,90. This observation led to the ‘culture historical hypothesis’: dairying created the selection pressures that drove alleles for lactose tolerance to high frequency12,91.” 

              Notice that the spread of the lactose tolerant allele was not because of the “extremely nutritious” nature of milk. It was because of the dairy farming/herding life.

              Similarly: 

              various studies now support the culture historical hypothesis, as opposed to the counter-hypothesis that the presence of the lactose-tolerance allele allowed dairying to spread, or that the allele spread for some reason unconnected to dairying.” 

              Notice that if drinking milk products, in and of itself, was an adaptive advantage, then the ‘counter-hypothesis’ would be true. But the evidence supports the cutlural-historical hypothesis. That’s an important piece of evidence against your conclusion that it was the nutritious value of milk that provided the adaptive advantage.

              As I think you agree, it was possessing a dairy herd that then drove the selection of the allele for lactose tolerance. But, notice that being lactose tolerant was only an advantage within a herding culture.

              Or, put another way, being lactose intolerant was a distinct disadvantage in a herding society because of an increased reliance on drinking milk as a food source. You’d miss out on food because milk was an increasingly important part of it. (In the same link, it’s pointed out that societies that used fermented milk products – cheese, yoghurt – have a middling level of lactose tolerance/intolerance because of their partial dependence on milk as a food source.)

              There was – and is – no selective advantage for it outside of a dairy herding life (or dairy dependent food economy), assuming that nutrition can be gained in other ways, as it has been by the majority of human societies.

              On top of that, many people (especially in the countries that we export milk products too) are, to varying degrees, lactose intolerant at present. We’re not necessarily doing them a dietary favour by selling them milk products.

              • But, notice that being lactose tolerant was only an advantage within a herding culture.

                Not quite. The mutation for retaining lactase into adulthood was a huge advantage if milk was available as a food, ie to anyone in contact with dairying people. The survival advantage is so pronounced that there are multiple separately-evolved alleles for it, those alleles spread amazingly quickly within only the last 10,000 years or so, and scientists are pretty sure they’re still spreading in cultures where getting enough to eat isn’t generally a problem (which means the survival advantage will be a lot lower than it was a few thousand years back). Anyone wanting to claim milk is a threat to health has a bunch of serious problems with their hypothesis that need solving.

                • Thanks Psycho Milt – that’s interesting. Any links (and that’s not an aggressive challenge, I’m interested).

                  • Rusty Shackleford

                    Do you think the same is true for wheat (and other grains) Phsycho Milt? I’m fairly convinced much of the western worlds health problems can be traced to an over reliance on wheat. Especially considering the wheat we consume today is vastly different from that consumed 10,000 years ago.

                    Can the same not be said for milk? The milk we drink today comes from only a few species of animal and is exclusively of an homogenised variety. Could this be a factor in its healthfulness?

                  • This NYT article mentions the work done that established separate, multiple evolution of lactase persistance and how rapidly it spread: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/11/science/11evolve.html

  19. aerobubble 19

    Oh come on, the only reason Auckland is having a party for the great unwashed to
    come to (and who shouldn’t of turned up as they weren’t expected to), is we
    have to, every major sportings event has parties, but Auckland has never been
    a party town (except for drunks). People have never been able to easierly
    around the place, its elite is too busy stuffing money in their own pockets
    while moaning they have got enough already. It’ll will be great when it all
    goes back to normal and boring average kiwi returns to gaze at the great
    scenary (and get used to it as that’s all he is getting unless he’s loaded).
    Here’s an example Genesis gives brownie point on their customers usage
    pattern yet they start removing them as expired after a while, so some
    cannot ever get a free gift. The system is geared to reward those who
    already have money (crony capitalism) and not geared to helping people
    make money who don’t already have it (as happens in a free market).
    Inomce inequality is just one measure that shows capitalism is being
    inefficiently run by governments to support a few already wealthy
    say wealthy.

  20. Colonial Viper 20

    Fonterra should use its overseas profits to subsidise NZ retail milk to $1.25/L and a 1kg block of cheese to $5.

    • Rusty Shackleford 20.1

      Why? Because you say so? That doesn’t make sense. Why not 2c/L for milk and you have to pay them to buy their cheese. Do they even make cheese?

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        Why? Because you say so?

        No, not just because I say so, but because fuckloads of NZ’ers know that it should be done.

        I picked those prices because they are affordable prices for ordinary Kiwi families.

        NZer’s know full well that they are being ass-whipped at $10/kg cheese while consumers in other developed markets across the world get NZ dairy products at lower prices than we can.

        And the shit is made less than 50 km from where I live, to add insult to injury.

        • burt 20.1.1.1

          If you don’t like the price don’t buy the product – is that too simple for you? Do you need Nanny to make sure them nasty milk traders don’t make too much profit CV ?

        • burt 20.1.1.2

          Actually CV

          If you feel so strongly about what the price should be why not buy a bit of land, buy a few cows and start selling milk at the price you think it should be sold at. Do something other than just asking Nanny to fix it for you.

          • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.2.1

            Thanks for the tip. I agree, we should institute land reforms and land taxes similar to those in the 1890′s to make getting on to farms far more affordable.

            People need to be able to farm for productivity, not for capital gains. Which means the prices of most farms need to come down by a further 20% to 30% for the ROI to start to make sense to a new small farmer looking to buy their first entry level dairy farm.

            By the way I am not talking about individual action burt, I am talking about reorienting the NZ economy.

            • burt 20.1.1.2.1.1

              So you don’t think we need individual action – rather reform. That would be a typical socialist approach – spend other peoples money to solve your issues.

          • vto 20.1.1.2.2

            such a simpleton

  21. burt 21

    World economic systems explained with cows

    FEUDALISM
    You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk.

    PURE SOCIALISM
    You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else’s cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need.

    BUREAUCRATIC SOCIALISM
    You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else’s cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and eggs as the regulations say you should need.

    FASCISM
    You have two cows. The government takes them both, hires you to take care of them and sells you the milk.

    PURE COMMUNISM
    You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

    RUSSIAN COMMUNISM
    You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.

    CAMBODIAN COMMUNISM
    You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.

    DICTATORSHIP
    You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.

    PURE DEMOCRACY
    You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

    REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY
    You have two cows. Yours neighbors pick somone to tell you who gets the milk.

    BUREAUCRACY
    You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. Then it takes both, shoots one, milks the other one and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows. In triplicate.

    ANARCHY
    You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors take the cows and kill you.

    CAPITALISM
    You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

    SURREALISM
    You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

  22. Kevin 22

    Fed Farmers Dairy Chair Willy Leferink was unequivocal and unapologetic in his advice to consumers which is to shop around.
    Mr Leferink said that in his home town he could get 4l for $5.00 and and 2l for $2.69.
    The message there is really that buying milk from a supermarket is not cheap, so don’t. Instead buy your milk from a service station or the local dairy where it is probably cheaper.
    In terms of competition, perhaps we should be looking at importing from Australia. The Aussies would jump at the chance.

    • Jimmy 22.1

      Would they? maybe, as far as competition goes why havnt they (the Australians that is), is there some reason why it is only Fonterra that is willing to supply the domestic market.
      Fonterras competitors do a good job of complaining about Fonterra and the high price/profit in the NZ domestic market but then refuse to supply the domestic market.
      Instead prefering to export their own DIRA purchased milk for the overseas, presumably more lucrative market.
      Perhaps the reason their is little domestic competition is because the market realizes there is more to be made internationally.

  23. Jimmy 23

    Your right CV, its pretty sickening watching a NZ owened business do well Internationally, it must be stopped.

    • Colonial Viper 23.1

      If the business is ripping of NZers yes it must be stopped.

      And the simplest way is to make them use a share of their large overseas profits to help provide NZ children with affordable milk and cheese.

  24. Jimmy 24

    Ok I also think milk and cheese should be affordable for everyone, but the notion that current prices are as you say a “Ripoff” dosent seem to ring true if no one want to compete with Fonterra in the NZ market and prefers to sell Internationally for the higher profit.

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  • Sean Plunket comes around on the Watergate comparison (‘Dirty Politics’...
    Here’s RadioLIVE talkback host Sean Plunket from this morning — thinking his way through the prickly situation revealed in Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics … and finding the comparison to Watergate and dirty tricks orchestrated from Richard Nixon’s office is...
    The Paepae | 28-08
  • Time to change: Another Fatality at Lyttelton, Port of Christchurch
    On January 6th 2014 I asked When will the next fatality happen at Lyttelton, Port of Christchurch?, after a near miss gave clear evidence that the Port’s safety systems were not in control. It was a prediction that was almost...
    Lance Wiggs | 28-08
  • The First Leaders’ Debate: Cunliffe Shows His Quality.
    Epic Struggle: Tonight New Zealanders were privileged to witness a truly outstanding encounter between two highly effective politicians. Leaving aside its ridiculous "poll", TVNZ has just screened one of the best leaders' debates in decades.WHAT A BLOODY SHAME. For 59 minutes TVNZ...
    Bowalley Road | 28-08
  • Stuart’s 100 #16 A Retail Renaissance?
    16: A Retail Renaissance? What if Topshop Topman was just the beginning? Over the past year or so there has started to be some recognition in the media that change is afoot in the central city retail scene (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11269705, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11262222 ) ....
    Transport Blog | 28-08
  • Labour on the environment
    Labour released its environment policy today. While supposedly predicated on the idea of "no healthy economy without a healthy environment", its... weak. On the core issue of the RMA, they reject National's latest round of gutting, but basically accept all...
    No Right Turn | 28-08
  • World News Brief, Thursday August 28
    Top of the AgendaNATO Plans New Bases as Poroshenko Meets Putin...
    Pundit | 28-08
  • Britain’s toxic elite
    In something that should be news to no-one, a report has found that Britain is in the thrall of an unrepresentative elite:Britain is "deeply elitist" because people educated at public school and Oxbridge have in effect created a "closed shop...
    No Right Turn | 28-08
  • Debates don’t change anything unless they do
    Leaders’ debate tonight! Reading through some of the political science about debates over lunchtime and the general consensus seems to be that debates don’t really change voters’ minds unless one of the debaters dramatically under-performs or over-performs.  But all other things...
    DimPost | 28-08
  • Is 2014 a landmark election for Green politics?
    Last week I asked, somewhat facetiously, whether this would be New Zealand's first policy-free election. Now obviously parties will release policies and they will provoke some debate, but it does seem that the personalities and the general perception of each...
    Pundit | 28-08
  • Nicky Hager’s public meeting in Auckland last night
    Nicky Hager was in Auckland last night, at a public meeting called to give people the opportunity to hear from — and question — the author of Dirty Poltiics, a book the author said is about ethics. Quite a good turnout...
    The Paepae | 28-08
  • NZ Greens – quick on the photocopiers
    Environment Victoria have got a rather clever print campaign going in support of renewable energy. This went to print in The Age yesterday… [via Twitter]   It didn’t take the NZ Greens long to get their solar powered photocopier up...
    Progress report | 28-08
  • Dick Fritter: tonight’s big fight
    Expert commentator Dick Fritter gives his tips on what each party leader needs to do to win the big TV debate...
    Imperator Fish | 28-08
  • New World wants to turn your kids into mindless zombie consumers
    Parents will know the pester power unleashed by offering collectables such as toys (or in the case of Countdown, cards). This tactic has long been used by fast food companies to lure in kids. Now it is being used as...
    Gareth’s World | 28-08
  • Stop spinning the debate
    Take the people saying  ‘all David Cunliffe has to do is draw’. Unfortunately, last year David Cunliffe’s supporters in the leadership contest argued he should lead the  party because of his superior debating skills....
    Pundit | 28-08
  • Mayor’s Long Term Plan proposal released
    This morning the mayor released his proposal for the Long Term Plan, which outlines the 10 year budget for the city. This is the first stage in a 9 month process. Long-term Plan timeline August 2014 – Mayor’s LTP proposal...
    Transport Blog | 28-08
  • New Fisk
    Israel-Gaza conflict: No victory for Israel despite weeks of devastation...
    No Right Turn | 27-08
  • Public servants are now afraid to do their duty
    How afraid are public servants of Judith Collins? So afraid they won't perform their legal duty and transfer "political" OIA requests to her office. An FYI user asked the Ministry of Justice for information about the handling of OIA requests...
    No Right Turn | 27-08
  • Too close to call in Te Tai Hauauru
    Maori TV yesterday released the results of their poll of the Te Tai Hauauru electorate, and it’s a close one, with the Maori Party’s Chris McKenzie just 3% ahead of Labour’s Adrian Rurawhe. Given that the pundits and iPredict have...
    Occasionally erudite | 27-08
  • Speaker: Election 2014: Mental Health Policies
    Health funding is tricky.  Politically, it's often about robbing Peter to pay Paul, and my experience of working in the public mental health system for many years is that mental health is often the "black sheep" of the health system. ...
    Public Address | 27-08
  • John Key’s Top 69 Lies: Today no. 23 – SkyCity deal.1
     The Nation: John Key 'Meets the Press' The involvement I had as Minister of Tourism was to go and talk to a number of critical players and as part of a general conversation say to them hey look New Zealand's interested...
    Arch Rival | 27-08
  • Poll of Polls update – 28 August 2014
    3News Reid Research released their latest poll last night, and it’s good news for almost everyone but the major parties. National are down 2.5% to 45%. That’s the danger zone – if NZ First is over 5% and National is on just...
    Occasionally erudite | 27-08
  • Help bring about change – get someone out to vote
    Getting our supporters out to vote during is something veteran Labour volunteers are familiar with – but it’s something every Labour supporter can help with too, even those who have so far not been able to be actively involved with...
    Labour campaign | 27-08
  • Private education company celebrates taxpayer largesse
    Tertiary Update Vol 17 No 29 New Zealand’s largest tertiary education company Intueri, announced a $1.6 million profit this week, courtesy of a massive increase in public funding over the last two years of at least $1.8 million. “The government...
    Tertiary Education Union | 27-08
  • Labor neighbour Bryce pitches in at Fraser House
    When are we pleased to see the Aussies? Certainly when we’re beating them at rugby and definitely when they are supporting Labour’s election campaign. Bryce Roney, who works for Labor in Tasmania, has been seconded to Fraser House by the...
    Labour campaign | 27-08
  • Kelburn academics want Living Wage for low paid colleagues
    Academics at Victoria University of Wellington’s Kelburn campus called for the university to reconsider its stance on the Living Wage at their stop-work meeting this week. The university and TEU members have been in collective agreement negotiations for months now....
    Tertiary Education Union | 27-08
  • Hard News: Earning Confidence
    That any fallout from Dirty Politics -- if that was what we saw in last night's 3 News poll -- would go to New Zealand First rather than the main Opposition parties is not very surprising. For many people, Winston Peters...
    Public Address | 27-08
  • Domestic students migrate to PTEs
    The number of domestic students in public tertiary education fell by nearly 10,000 between 2012 and 2013 according to the latest data from the Ministry of Education. Meanwhile the number of domestic students in private training establishments (PTEs) rose by...
    Tertiary Education Union | 27-08
  • Ceasefire in Gaza – what are the lessons?
    It is good that an ‘unconditional and unlimited’ ceasefire has now been reached in Gaza. Above all, the human carnage stops. Whether it stops for good or for simply another five-year cycle is the real test. There are two ways...
    frogblog | 27-08
  • Charter schools chained to tertiary institutions?
    The government is considering changing education rules to allow universities and polytechnics to run partnership schools according to the New Zealand Herald. However, Alan Cocker from TEU’s national council says there are financial risks for tertiary institutions getting involved with...
    Tertiary Education Union | 27-08
  • Smallest branches focused on decent work and pay
    A recent hui of representatives from some of TEU’s smallest branches said the union’s priorities on fair pay and decent working conditions were aspirational rather than a reality for some of their workers. The hui, which included TEU members from...
    Tertiary Education Union | 27-08
  • TEU leadership up for vote
    Campaigning for TEU’s new president is well under way, with both candidates, Lesley Francey and Sandra Grey, answering questions from the public on their campaign websites....
    Tertiary Education Union | 27-08
  • Dirty polls, what Winston wants & debates
    If the 3News-Reid Research poll has captured a snap shot of the voters' mood, then it shows that the campaign at the moment is all about trust. It is of course only one poll, but it shows a flight from...
    Pundit | 27-08
  • A positive story of political co-operation!
    .   . Wellington, NZ, 23 August - The following is a true story and shows how the natural inclination of the rank-and-file of our main left-wing parties is to work together… I’ve been in contact with both the Green...
    Frankly Speaking | 27-08
  • A positive story of political co-operation!
    .   . Wellington, NZ, 23 August - The following is a true story and shows how the natural inclination of the rank-and-file of our main left-wing parties is to work together… I’ve been in contact with both the Green...
    Frankly Speaking | 27-08
  • “Dirty Politics” – the fall-out continues…
    . . As the shock-wave from Nicky Hager’s book, “Dirty Politics” continues to engulf everything in it’s path, it’s worthwhile looking at the damage caused by the ever-expanding fallout… Fallout Dispersal Zone: 1oom Farrar wrote on 19 August  (and later...
    Frankly Speaking | 27-08
  • “Dirty Politics” – the fall-out continues…
    . . As the shock-wave from Nicky Hager’s book, “Dirty Politics” continues to engulf everything in it’s path, it’s worthwhile looking at the damage caused by the ever-expanding fallout… Fallout Dispersal Zone: 1oom Farrar wrote on 19 August  (and later...
    Frankly Speaking | 27-08
  • Why There is so Much Hate for John Key
    Kiwis, real Kiwis that is – not ‘Kiwis’ who have been living here for a couple of years, are mostly decent hard working and honest people.  They earn their living by getting out there and making a difference by what...
    An average kiwi | 27-08
  • The first head-to-head leaders’ debate – tonight!
    The first head-to-head debate between David Cunliffe and John Key (tonight, 7pm, TV One) could be a real turning point of the election. (Yes, I’m very biased.) But the fact is – ignoring questions about Mike Hosking’s moderation, and the...
    Boots Theory | 27-08
  • Why hasn’t Collins resigned?
    It seems highly unusual for a Minister of the Crown who has repeatedly transgressed and abused her position to still be a Minister. Not only has Judith Collins been found to have leaked the private information of a public servant...
    The Jackal | 27-08
  • 2014 SkS Weekly News Roundup #35A
    Act now on climate change or face growing health risks - UN Climate change may disrupt global food system within a decade Climate sceptics see a conspiracy in Australia's record breaking heat Cutting emissions pays for itself, research shows Greenhouse...
    Skeptical Science | 27-08
  • Legal Beagle: Crown appeals in criminal cases
    While the Crown has a lot of advantages in the criminal justice system - the resources and powers of the police foremost - many aspects of the system, are tilted in favour of a defendant - for example, the requirement...
    Public Address | 27-08
  • Election Transport Debate
    Last night was the Transport Election Debate and so this is a recap of what happened. Unfortunately it wasn’t filmed so we can’t put up a video for you all to watch. If I miss anything important please add it in...
    Transport Blog | 27-08
  • National: Not our Future Marches across New Zealand
    Press Release – Joe Carolan Three weeks before the election, action is being taken across the country voicing a rejection of the National Government’s track record and direction. Rallies are being held in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin to oppose...
    Its our future | 27-08
  • IPCC attribution statements redux: A response to Judith Curry
    I have written a number of times about the procedure used to attribute recent climate change (here in 2010, in 2012 (about the AR4 statement), and again in 2013 after AR5 was released). For people who want a summary of...
    Real Climate | 27-08
  • Gordon Campbell on Winston Peters’ latest bout of immigrant bashing, and ...
    So in the latest 3News-Reid Research poll, New Zealand First and the Conservatives have been the big winners. It is only one poll, but rather than cannibalising each other’s vote, Colin Craig and Winston Peters do seem to be managing...
    Gordon Campbell | 27-08
  • Democracy – Leonard Cohen
      Because I've just come back from Nicky Hager's extraordinary public meeting in the Mt Eden War Memorial Hall, here's Lenny's magnificent paean to the democratic ideal. If it's coming to the USA - why not here too? Sail on, sail on,...
    Bowalley Road | 27-08
  • The Pilgrim Of Light: Nicky Hager And New Zealand Politics
    Admonishing Angel: Nicky Hager descends periodically to trouble our consciences and wreak merry havoc with the orderly conduct of our political affairs. But, more than any other journalist in New Zealand, he has taught us to read the actions of...
    Bowalley Road | 27-08
  • Positive!
    The public are being turned off by dirty politics. Our opponents are scum, but let's focus on the issues....
    Imperator Fish | 27-08
  • Lack of information on Port of Tauranga death extremely concerning
    The Maritime Union is extremely concerned about the lack of public information about a Tauranga port worker who died last week....
    MUNZ | 27-08
  • Climate Change: the Terminological Timeline
    It is often said that a picture speaks a thousand words. The run of pictures below, it is hoped, will do a little more. They exist as a counterpoint to that laziest of claims - that, a few years ago,...
    Skeptical Science | 27-08
  • No healthy economy without a healthy environment
    Labour recognises that we cannot have a healthy economy without a healthy environment, says Environment spokesperson Moana Mackey announcing Labour’s environment policy. “New Zealand’s economy has been built on the back of the enormous environmental wealth we collectively enjoy as...
    Labour | 28-08
  • Better protection, fairer deal for Kiwi consumers
    Tackling excessive prices, ensuring consumers have enough information to make ethical choices and giving the Commerce Commission more teeth are highlights of Labour’s Consumer Rights policy. “The rising cost of living is a concern for thousands of Kiwi families. A...
    Labour | 28-08
  • Media Advisory – MANA Movement Candidate for Waiariki Annette Sykes, Waia...
    Media are advised that this coming weekend, the MANA Movement Candidate for Waiariki, Annette Sykes, will be on the Internet MANA Road Trip within the electorate of Waiariki. Speakers confirmed are Annette Sykes, Hone Harawira, John Minto, Laila Harre and Kim...
    Mana | 27-08
  • Internet MANA – Waiariki Road Trip: 29, 30, 31 Aug 2014
    The Internet MANA Road Trip hits Waiariki this weekend. It would be great if all MANA members in Waiariki could especially attend the public meetings and show their support for our Waiariki candidate Annette Sykes. Confirmed speakers Hone Harawira (except Taupo), Annette...
    Mana | 27-08
  • First home buyers $200 a week better off with Labour
    A couple earning around $75,000 a year would be $200 a week better off buying a two bedroom terraced Labour KiwiBuild home instead of an equivalent new build under National’s housing policy, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe.  “National’s policy to...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Another Day – Another big power profit
    The latest profit announcement from Genesis Energy shows that the power company was sold for a song to the detriment of the country’s power consumers, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “A net profit of $ 49.2 million follows hard...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour embraces the rainbow
    Labour will work hard to ensure all New Zealanders enjoy the freedom to grow up and live their lives in dignity and security. Labour’s Rainbow policy, released tonight in Wellington, focuses on International Relations, Human Rights and Education....
    Labour | 26-08
  • National gets fast and loose with the facts
    In their desperation to make it look as though they are doing something about the housing crisis, National is playing fast and loose with the facts, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford....
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour will drop power prices for Kiwi families
    New Zealanders will get cheaper power prices under NZ Power, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “The electricity market is clearly broken. With falling demand for electricity, prices should be going down. Instead prices are going up and companies are extracting...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Labour: Promoting sustainable tourism
    Ensuring New Zealand’s clean, green status continues to be an international tourism benchmark and reviewing MBIE’s oversight of the tourism sector will be on the radar under a Labour Government. Releasing Labour’s Tourism policy today, spokesperson Darien Fenton said tourism...
    Labour | 26-08
  • Skills shortage a result of National’s complacency
    The fact that there is still a severe shortage of skilled tradespeople, despite a growth in the number of apprentices, is a result of National’s failure to plan and develop the workforce, Grant Robertson, Labour Employment, Skills and TrainingSpokesperson says."The...
    Labour | 26-08
  • How much tax does John Key pay compared to a minimum wage worker?? – Mint...
    MANA Movement Economic Justice spokesperson John Minto is calling for a radical overhaul of New Zealand’s taxation system with calculations showing that a minimum wage worker pays a ten times higher tax rate than the Prime Minister. o Minimum wage...
    Mana | 25-08
  • Labour’s culture of science and innovation
    Labour will create a culture of science and innovation in New Zealand that will be the envy of the world, says Labour’s Innovation, Research and Development spokesperson Megan Woods. “Labour believes that good science lies at the heart of a...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Improving life for our new New Zealanders
    New Zealand’s international standing as a community that encourages and fosters all cultures will be bolstered under a Labour Government with an upgrade of the present Office of Ethnic Affairs to a Ministry. Releasing Labour’s Ethnic Affairs policy, spokesperson Phil...
    Labour | 25-08
  • South Auckland housing crisis
    National’s HomeStart package is nothing more than a political stunt designed to beguile South Auckland voters, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio. “Few working Pasifika and Maori workers in South Auckland will be able to buy their own...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Home buyer subsidy discredited in Oz
    Treasury advised against National’s policy of ramping up home buyer subsidies after it was discredited in Australia because it pushed house prices even higher, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Documents released under the OIA (attached) show Treasury advised the...
    Labour | 25-08
  • Nursing hours explain turnover and high-stress culture
    A staff survey supports concerns nursing staff at Dunedin Hospital are under increasing pressure and that the emergency department is in a critical state, says Labour’s Associate Health Spokesperson David Clark.  “An ED nursing survey at Dunedin found that 80...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Underhand tactics prove case for axing donations
    Revelations that schools are using underhand tactics to coerce donations from cash-strapped parents further highlights the need for Labour's plan to increase funding so they aren't dependent on contributions from parents, Labour's Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “By law New...
    Labour | 24-08
  • National applies band-aid to housing crisis
    The Government’s flagship housing announcement is a band-aid approach that will push up prices rather than solve the housing crisis, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “House sales to first home buyers have collapsed as a direct result of the Government’s...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Climate change focus on the now for the future
    A Labour Governmentwill put in place a comprehensive climate change strategy focusing on bothmitigation and adaptation, establish an independent Climate Commission andimplement carbon budgeting, says Labour Climate Change spokesperson MoanaMackey."This is about future-proofing our economy. Making the transition to alow-carbon...
    Labour | 24-08
  • Labour’s 21st century transport pledge
    The next Labour-led Government will create a 21st century transport system for New Zealand that promotes the most efficient and sustainable combination of transport options, says Labour’s Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Labour will rebalance the Government's transport spending away from...
    Labour | 23-08
  • Housing under National: the facts
    1.       House prices in Auckland Council valuations indicate Auckland house prices have gone up by one-third over the last three years. (Auckland Council) The average Auckland house price has gone up by nearly $225,000 since 2008, up over $75,000 in...
    Labour | 23-08
  • Labour irons out low income tax issue
    The increasing casualisation of work has led to many New Zealand families being disadvantaged through the tax they pay, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. "Many low paid workers are having to work two or three jobs to make ends meet...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Cornered Government comes out swinging
    The National Government is so desperate to keep its dead-in-the-water expert teachers policy alive, it has refused to rule out forcing schools to participate through legislation, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “John Key today attacked the Educational Institute for...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Pacific people continue to go backwards under National
    A report from Victoria University highlights the fact that Pacific people are continuing to go backwards under a National Government, said Labour’s Pacific Affairs spokesperson Su’a William Sio.  “The report shows the largest inequality increases were in smoking, obesity, tertiary...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Wellington transport plan needs to keep moving
    The failure of the Transport Agency to properly look at alternatives to the Basin Reserve flyover is not a good reason for further delays to improving transport in Wellington, Labour MPs Grant Robertson and Annette King say. “The Board of...
    Labour | 22-08
  • Labour’s focus on inequality, kids and better job prospects
    Tackling child poverty and removing barriers to people working part time to enhance their prospects of moving into a fulltime job are highlights of Labour’s Social Development policy. Releasing the policy today, spokesperson Sue Moroney said while part-time work was...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Political staff should give answers under oath
    The Inspector General of Security and Intelligence should use her full statutory powers to question witnesses under oath about the leak of SIS information, says Labour MP Phil Goff. “Leakage of confidential information from the SIS for political purposes is...
    Labour | 21-08
  • High dollar, hands-off Govt sends workers to dole queue
    The loss of up to 100 jobs at Croxley stationery in Auckland is devastating news for their families and the local Avondale community, Labour’s Employment, Skills and Training spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The company’s inability to compete in international markets...
    Labour | 21-08
  • National’s flagship education policy dead in the water
    National’s plan to create executive principals and expert teachers is effectively dead in the water with news that 93 percent of primary teachers have no confidence in the scheme, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “The fact that teachers are...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Dunedin will be a knowledge and innovation centre under Labour
    Dunedin will become a knowledge and innovation centre under a Labour Government that will back local businesses, support technology initiatives and fund dynamic regional projects, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Nowhere has the National Government’s short-sightedness been more apparently than...
    Labour | 21-08
  • Inquiry into SIS disclosures the right decision
    Labour MP Phil Goff says the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has done the right thing by launching an inquiry into the disclosure of SIS documents about a meeting between himself and the agency’s former director-general. “This inquiry is necessary...
    Labour | 20-08
  • Labour – supporting and valuing carers and the cared for
    Placing real value on our elderly and the people who care for them will be a priority for a Labour Government, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. Releasing Labour’s Senior Citizens policy today David Cunliffe promised that a Labour Government would...
    Labour | 20-08
  • By Hoki! It’s Labour’s fisheries policy
    A Labour Government will protect the iconic Kiwi tradition of fishing by improving access to the coast, protecting the rights of recreational fishers and reviewing snapper restrictions, Labour’s Fisheries spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “Catching a fish from the rocks, beach...
    Labour | 20-08
  • Mighty River – Mighty Profits – Mighty hard to swallow
    Mighty River Power’s profit increase of 84 per cent is simply outrageous, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “Demand for electricity is flat or declining yet the company has made enormous profits. It is the latest power company to celebrate...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Collins’ actions were wrong, not unwise
    John Key’s moral compass remains off-kilter as he cannot bring himself to declare Judith Collins’ actions outright wrong, not simply ‘unwise’, said Labour MP Grant Robertson. “Under pressure John Key is finally shifting his stance but his failure to condemn...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Public servants behaving with more integrity than their masters
    The State Services Commission's new report on the integrity of our state services reflects the yawning gap between the behaviour of public servants and that of their political masters, Labour's State Services spokesperson Maryan Street says. “This report, which surveyed...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Phil Twyford Speech to NZCID
    "Labour's plan to build more and build better: how new approaches to housing, transport and urban development will deliver cities that work" Phil Twyford, Labour Party spokesperson on housing, transport, Auckland issues, and cities.  ...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Labour commits to independent Foreign Affairs and Trade
    “Labour is committed to New Zealand’s Foreign Affairs and Trade policy being independent and proactive, Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson David Shearer says. “We are a small but respected country. Our voice and actions count in international affairs. Labour will take a...
    Labour | 19-08
  • Key must sack Collins over abhorrent actions
    The latest revelations that Judith Collins sent the contact details of a public servant to WhaleOil in a desperate attempt to divert media attention from a bad story is abhorrent, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “John Key and Judith Collins...
    Labour | 19-08
  • It’s downhill from here under National
    The forecast drop in exports and predicted halving of growth shows that it’s downhill from here with National, Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker says. “Growth under this Government peaked in June and halves to two per cent in coming years....
    Labour | 19-08
  • John Key loses moral compass over Collins
    John Key has lost his moral compass over Judith Collins’ involvement with Cameron Slater and lost touch with New Zealanders’ sense of right and wrong, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “Whoever is Prime Minister there are expectations they will not...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Mana Movement General Election 2014 List confirmed
    The MANA List is now confirmed with all the candidates as below (the numbers are the respective Internet MANA rankings). Candidate, Electorate, Internet MANA List Position Hone Harawira, Te Tai Tokerau (1) Annette Sykes, Waiariki (3) John Minto, Mt Roskill (4) Te Hamua Nikora, Ikaroa-Rawhiti...
    Mana | 18-08
  • PREFU likely to confirm dropping exports
    National’s economic management will be put under the spotlight in tomorrow’s PREFU given clear signs the so-called rock star economy has fallen off the stage, with plummeting prices for raw commodity exports, Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker says. “Under National,...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Record profits while Kiwis face a cold winter
    The record profits by two of New Zealand’s largest electricity companies will be a bitter pill for New Zealand households who are paying record amounts for their power, says Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer. “No doubt the Key government will...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time for John Key to answer yes or no questions
    John Key’s train-wreck interview on Morning Report shows he is no longer capable of a simple yes or no answer and has lost touch with what’s right and wrong, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. “John Key has become so media...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Key must clarify who signed out SIS OIA
    Yet again John Key is proving incapable of answering a simple question on an extremely important issue – this time who signed off Cameron Slater’s fast-tracked SIS OIA request on Phil Goff, said Labour MP Grant Robertson. “John Key’s claim...
    Labour | 18-08
  • Time to invest in our tertiary education system
    A Labour Government will fully review the student support system – including allowances, loans, accommodation support and scholarships – with a view to increasing access and making the system fair, transparent and sustainable, Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Maryan Street says....
    Labour | 17-08
  • Labour will facilitate regional Māori economic development agencies
    The next Labour Government will facilitate the creation of regional Māori economic development groups lead by iwi and hapū to work in partnership with business and public agencies as part of its Māori Development policy. “Labour is committed to working towards...
    Labour | 16-08
  • PRIME MINISTER’S DENIAL AT ODDS WITH NATIONAL PARTY STATEMENT
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has today released an email from the General Manager of the National Party that directly contradicts recent statements from the Prime Minister in relation to the 2011 breaches of Labour Party website databases. In his stand-up...
    Labour | 16-08
  • Cunliffe beats Key in First Leaders debate
    I watched the First Leaders debate at the Green Party #GreenRoomNZ, they were very kind to include me and the atmosphere was great. The debate was a resounding victory to Cunliffe. He won Round 1, Round 2, Round 3 and...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • LIVE STREAM: The Green Room Leader’s Debate from 6:30pm
    The Green Room will be hosted by media commentator Russel Brown, and will feature Green Co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman responding to the debate live, along with comment from thought leaders and commentators. ‘The Green Room’ 6pm – 8.30pm...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • How many taxpayer funded staff does John Key need to prepare for a Leaders ...
    John Key is currently at the Auckland Stamford Plaza with 40 staff, 4 undercover police cars and an entire floor booked out in preparation for tonights Leader’s debate. Isn’t 40 staff including coms, flown up to Auckland for a debate...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • A brief word on National Party Rodney MP, Mark Mitchell
    MP considers legal action against Nicky HagerThe National MP says he is considering taking a defamation case after the September 20 election.“Someone needs to be held accountable,” he said. Oh really champ? Brothers and sisters, there is a long way...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Greens advertise on Whaleoil – but not on The Daily Blog?
    PaknSave have shown ethical compass and blocked adverts on Whaleoil, yet the Greens are advertising on Whaleoil, and not The Daily Blog? I would imagine there are far more potential Green voters on The Daily Blog then ever are on...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • It’s about the stupid economy stupid
    In focus group meetings, the sleepy hobbits of NZ by a staggering amount all believe that National are better economic stewards of the country than Labour, that’s why, instead of answering questions about blackmailing MPs, trawling brothels for dirt on...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • Labour Policy vs National Policy
    John Key’s favourite defence spin at the moment is people want to talk about policy and not hear answers on the ethics of trawling brothels, why Slater was given SIS information, blackmailing MPs into standing down, rigging candidate elections and hacking...
    The Daily Blog | 28-08
  • The Green Room live streamed on TDB 6.30pm tonight for First Leaders debate
    The ‘Green Room’ will stream 6.pm tonight on The Daily Blog during the TV One leaders’ debate.Use #GreenRoomNZ to join in. The Green Room will be hosted by media commentator Russel Brown, and will feature Green Co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman responding...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Manukau East – the next Coalition in action
    A couple of weeks ago I had the pleasure of opening Voice Up – a youth forum run by young people in Otara. I had been asked as Chair of the Local Board to set the scene, encouraging young people...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – The Big Bang Theory
    It’s a shame that it took a brain injury for me to start seeing things with such startling clarity. The realisation that lawyering, fishing, parenting, selling cars and racing yachts had common themes was stunning. Not perhaps as stunning as...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, how much Key aro...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • 5AA Australia – New Zealand’s Dirty Politics Aftermath and Polls
    MIL OSI – Source: Selwyn Manning – Analysis Headline: 5AA Australia – New Zealand’s Dirty Politics Aftermath and Polls 5AA Australia: On this week’s Across the Ditch bulletin on 5AA Australia, host Peter Godfery and Selwyn Manning discuss the aftermath...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • La’o Hamutuk calls for inquiry into Timor GAP ‘mismanagement’ of oil ...
    The Suai project on the South Coast … “liberated” land but confused communities.Photo: La’o Hamutuk David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific. AN INDEPENDENT Timor-Leste development and social justice agency has called for an inquiry into the Timor GAP corporation...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • What Is Nicky Hager?
    WHAT WILL HISTORY MAKE of Nicky Hager? That slight, perpetually boyish, journalist who descends periodically, like the admonishing angel in a medieval mystery play, to trouble our consciences and wreak merry havoc with the orderly conduct of our political affairs....
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Can anyone in msm explain how after Dirty Politics that they all got played...
    Would you not think, that after reading Dirty Politics, that our mainstream media wouldn’t allow themselves to get tricked and played again by the VERY SAME discredited pundits? The best new feature on Radio NZ is their ‘Blog Watch’ and their...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Crusher Collins caught out lying about Privacy Commissioner – is this her...
    Crusher angry. Crusher smash own career. Crusher more angry. You would think that after getting outed as such a nasty, vicious piece of work in Dirty Politics, that Crusher would be scrambling to dial back the lies and manipulations. Apparently...
    The Daily Blog | 27-08
  • Cunliffe vs Key – first leaders debate
    This is your election ‘moderator’ – just one more reason an incoming Government need to sack everyone at TVNZ and reform it into an actual public broadcaster. The first leaders debate happens this Thursday, 7pm on TV One. I have...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – An Old and Honourable Profession
      When Dirty Politics started to reference an ex-prostitute I began to get antsy. My first response was “come on Nicky, we decriminalised in 2003. Its sex worker.” My second response was “Ah oh. Who was it and did they...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Bought and paid for: the dirty politics of climate denial
    Has climate denial in New Zealand been bought and paid for by corporate interests? We already know that the ACT Party’s routine denial is closely linked to the financial support the party receives from wealthy free market fundamentalist Alan Gibbs,...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • If the msm read The Daily Blog, THIS wouldn’t be a surprise – explainin...
    Yawn. How embarrassing for Hamish Rutherford and Andrea Vance, their breathless article today suggests that the idea of Labour and NZ First cutting a  deal over the buy back of assets  is some how new news. Silly mainstream media  journalists. If...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • How much tax does John Key pay compared to a minimum wage worker??
    Yesterday I did some calculations to find out what tax John Key pays compared to a worker on the minimum wage. And I put out this media release for the Mana Movement: MANA Movement Economic Justice spokesperson John Minto is...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Hip hop death threats – the selective outrage of our media
    PM death threat in hip hop songAn Auckland hip-hop crew slammed for releasing a song with lyrics that apparently include a threat to kill Prime Minister John Key are urging young people to enrol to vote. Kill The PM, by...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Watch Slater turn into Key right before your eyes
    Watch Slater turn into Key right before your eyes...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • I don’t always agree with Patrick Gower – but he didn’t deserve this!
    I don’t always agree with Patrick Gower – but he didn’t deserve this weird spear tackle from behind by his own company. I was listening to this interview at the time, and the awkwardness of it must be the worst...
    The Daily Blog | 26-08
  • Is it weird Radio NZ ban me yet still have….
    Is it weird Radio NZ ban me for life because I criticised the Prime Minister yet still have Matthew Hooton, David Farrar and Jordan Williams, 3 of the main protagonists revealed in Dirty Politics as part of their ongoing political...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Christchurch GCSB meeting – why mass surveillance matters in 2014
    This is the video for last weeks GCSB meeting in Christchurch. Don’t forget Nicky Hager’s public meeting Wednesday night in Auckland, TDB will live stream the event in the interests of our democracy. Broadcast starts 7.30pm here on TDB....
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Assange, Greenwald to appear at Town Hall meeting? + KDC is not the hacker ...
    Wikileaks founder and the engineer of revealing some of the largest abuses of power in the modern era, Julian Assange, is rumoured to be appearing at the September 15th Town Hall meeting. Assange would join award winning investigative journalist Glen...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Why Paula Bennett will be the next leader and Hooton throws the Prime Minis...
    I don’t think the public have any idea of the behind the scenes meltdown now occurring within National. There are plenty of decent right wingers who all have ethical standards who have looked at what their leaders have been doing and...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – That Awkward Feeling When Your Campaign Goe...
    Urgh. It’s a thankless and nearly impossible task politically firefighting some days. Somebody (who isn’t you, but who’s in your care, or whom you’ve got a close professional relationship with) does or says something stupid; somebody from the Media’s there...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Joe Trinder – Dirty politics goes viral
    Join the latest social networking craze this election that every Dog Cat and Jabba is putting on their facebook pages.     Joe Trinder – Ngāti Awa Born and born in Ōtepoti Ōtākou, Ex RNZN he is an Information Technology...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Blogwatch: An open letter to David Farrar: Please, be that guy
    Dear David, In light of  Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics, you wrote a blog entitled ‘Some changes on Kiwiblog’ and you suggested it was time to tighten up ship on your website, saying “I want to improve trust in myself,...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • What The Hell Was That! Reflections on the media’s coverage of the Intern...
    WHAT, EXACTLY, DO WE KNOW about the confrontation outside Internet-Mana’s campaign launch? Well, we know the news media was there in force. We also know Internet-Mana’s media person, Pam Corkery, blew her stack. We know that Corkery’s outburst led the...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • NZ First candidate – homophobic, bennie bashing anti-intellectual clown
    Oh God, apart from Ron Mark, Tracey Martin, Curwen Rolinson and Winston before midday, the woeful cavalcade of political circus freaks NZ First seem to attract has picked up another hitchhiker. This time Epsom candidate Cliff Lyon who said this about Labour… “If...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Nicky Hager Public Meeting LIVESTREAM on The Daily Blog 7.30pm Wednesday 27...
    As part of our commitment to the 2014 Election debate, The Daily Blog will Livestream the Nicky Hager public meeting in Auckland, 7.30pm live from the Mt Eden War Memorial this Wednesday on this site. Doors open at 7pm. It...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Opening Night. It’s like an opera!
    On Saturday night just gone, we collectively experienced one of the premier panegyrys of political pageantry in our three yearly electoral cycle. For one glorious weekend evening every three years, it’s not the All Blacks or some Super 14 team, or...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, Unions – what ...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking on Radio Hauraki...
    The Daily Blog | 25-08
  • Timor-Leste’s Parliament handed ‘humiliating’ defeat over harsh media...
    East Timorese journalists raise their hands to approve the Timor-Leste JournalistCode of Ethics in October 2013. Photo: Tempo Semanal/Cafe Pacific   David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific. PACIFIC SCOOP reported this week that East Timor’s Appeal Court had scrapped...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • THIS is why we need a public broadcaster!
    The richest 20% of us in NZ own 70% of the wealth, with 18% in the hands of the second richest quintile, and 10% in the hands of the middle quintile. Just 2 per cent was owned by people in...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • A vote for Key is a vote for this
    A vote for Key is a vote for this...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Why the Secret Intelligence Service feeding Cameron Slater information is s...
    Folks, it doesn’t matter if you are Right or Left, the issue of the Secret Intelligence Service being forced to feed a far right hate speech merchant like Cameron Slater with sensitive information is an ‘us’ issue. The SIS are...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • How lost and irrelevant are ACT?
    So ACT had it’s ‘launch’. Well, what passes as an ACT launch these days. Lot’s of anorak’s with that 1000 yard star and dreams of a Milton Friedman Free Market dancing behind their eyelids all crammed into a room small...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • National Party rowing advert aimed at Gen Xers
    Unkind wags such as myself would suggest that if the above were a real representation of National, it would look more like this…   National know they have the rural mob and the angry provincial vote locked in, with their...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • National Housing propaganda – McGehan Close Revisited
    .   . Housing has become a major, defining issue in New Zealand. We have critical shortages and escalating prices in  in the main centres and falling house values in the regions. The National government has addressed the supply &...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • The boldest, most creative and dynamic policy on employment for two generat...
    If you watched TV news last night you could be forgiven for thinking that a circus was on when Internet MANA launched its election campaign today. The reporting was abysmal but I won’t rehash it here because it’s been described...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Call for Aaron Bhatnagar’s resignation from govt body
    .   . One of the many sordid “bit”-players in Nicky Hager’s book, “Dirty Politics“, and one of Cameron Slater’s inner-cabal, is businessman, National Party card-carrying cadre,  and former city councillor, Aaron Bhatnagar; . . In 2008, Bhatnagar was caught...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Internet MANA announce free tertiary education & full employment – me...
    Internet MANA launch their campaign after an extraordinary road tour and after gaining 4% in the Colmar Brunton Poll, today should have been the start point for a momentous occasion  in progressive political history. It was, but sadly most won’t...
    The Daily Blog | 24-08
  • Privilege denies true representation of disability rights
    The human right of people with disabilities in New Zealand has come back into the spotlight by the Human Rights Commission. The report named ‘Making Disability Rights Real’ highlights some of the main issues as being adequate data collection, accessibility,...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • Election TV campaign ads – Opening Night
    . .The infamous National Party ‘Dancing Cossacks’ Attack advert  NZ, 23 August -  The election campaign “kicked off” on Saturday evening, with a one hour “televisual feast”. Party advertisements were broadcast for National, Labour, Greens, NZ First, United Future/Peter Dunne,...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • Blogging vs Journalism vs Politics – The 7 latest revolting revelations
    So we now enter the most dangerous phase for National, the phase where the minutia of detail is so great now, the media have all the ammunition to keep asking questions that clearly show Key isn’t being honest in his...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • A positive story of political co-operation!
    .   . Wellington, NZ, 23 August - The following is a true story and shows how the natural inclination of the rank-and-file of our main left-wing parties is to work together… I’ve been in contact with both the Green...
    The Daily Blog | 23-08
  • Labour’s environment policy welcomed
    The independent conservation organisation Forest & Bird says that overall the Labour Party’s newly released environment policy would go a long way towards protecting New Zealand’s natural heritage....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • National: Not our Future Marches across New Zealand
    Three weeks before the election, action is being taken across the country voicing a rejection of the National Government's track record and direction. Rallies are being held in Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin to oppose National's...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Tune in to tonight’s debate from 7pm
    The countdown is on! You can watch the first leader’s debate for 2014 tonight, 7pm, on TV One ....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Gamblefree Day 1 September
    It's Gamblefree Day this Monday 1 September, the national awareness day for problem gambling in New Zealand. While traditionally celebrated on the first day of September, many events and activities are held both before and after this day to raise...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Success through captioning should be a given as a Right
    Success through captioning should be a given as a Right per the Convention on the Rights of People with Disabilities...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Alcohol Marketing Committee Questions Government’s Motives
    An Independent Expert Committee on Alcohol Advertising and Sponsorship (IECAAS) has been formed out of concern amongst alcohol and public health researchers about the government’s Ministerial Forum on Alcohol Advertising and Sponsorship (MFAAS)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • How Much Higher Can Auckland Prices Go?
    National's plan to liberalise the use of Kiwisaver funds and its proposal to raise ts cheap "Welcome Home" loan thresholds to help buyers purchase a new home has been welcomed by home building companies but attacked as a "welfare scheme...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • OPC submission period extended
    We have extended the submission period for the modified reassessment of a bee control affecting five organophosphate and carbamate insecticides (APP202142)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Vinay Deobhakta struck off roll of barristers and solicitors
    The New Zealand Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal has ordered former Tauranga lawyer Vinay Deobhakta to be struck off the roll of barristers and solicitors....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Major parties to front up for Climate Voter election debate
    New Zealand’s main political parties will take part in ‘The Great Climate Voter Debate’ on September 3....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Family violence… too big to be ignored
    As Annah Stretton gears up for her New Zealand Fashion Week show on Thursday she is utilizing her spotlight to help change the face of family violence in this country saying “the problem is far too big to ignore”....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Candidate’s SOS to northern Maori voters: Save our seats!
    (Extract from address by Rev Te Hira Paenga to Kura Hourua Maori Political Leaders hui, in Whangarei this evening)....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Mary O’Neill to Stand for the Alliance in Napier
    The Alliance Party has confirmed Mary O’Neill as the Alliance candidate in the Napier Electorate for the 2014 election....
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • TONIGHT [28/8/14]: The Great Political Comedy Debate
    It's a night for debating. You could stay home frowning at tonight's Leaders debate, or laugh it up with us at BATS!...
    Scoop politics | 28-08
  • Cunliffe against personal responsibility over billboards
    The accusation by David Cunliffe that the Conservative Party is subscribing to a surveillance society by protecting its billboards via the use of motion sensor cameras reveals an anti-personal responsibility position by the about-to-be-retired Leader...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Groundbreaking health and climate conference
    The World Health Organization (WHO) is holding its first conference on climate change and health at its headquarters in Geneva this week, with New Zealand health experts in attendance....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Te Tai Tokerau Party
    Last night at the Leadership Academy of Company A debate Clinton Dearlove announced the creation of a new political party supported by Whanau and Hapu....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Significant fallout from Dirty Politics allegations
    Dirty politics ... costing National up to 3.8% of its pre-publication support Large numbers of New Zealanders are aware of and talking about the issues raised as a result of the publication of Nicky Hager’s book, Dirty Politics, according to...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Colin Craig is “deluded and dangerous” – Act
    “Colin Craig is proposing a radical transformation of our constitution. The Conservatives are proposing to overthrow of one hundred and fifty odd years of parliamentary democracy and replace it with binding referenda” said ACT Leader Dr Jamie Whyte....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • WoF law will evict the poor and students from their houses
    The Green warrant of fitness law will evict the poor and students from their houses, if they’re lucky enough to find a place to rent in the first place...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Police response to IPCA report on ‘out of control’ parties
    Police accept today's Independent Police Conduct Authority report recommendations regarding the handling of 'out of control' parties and has already improved its policies and practices for managing these complex and sometimes violent situations....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Review of Police handling of ‘out of control’ parties
    An Independent Police Conduct Authority review has found that Police are working to ensure officers called upon to deal with out of control gatherings in future are better trained to deal with the situations they may face....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Wynyard and NZ Police Announce Ground-breaking Partnership
    Auckland, 28 August 2014 - Wynyard Group, a market leader in advanced crime analytics software and services, today welcomed the New Zealand Police as a long term partner in its Crime Science Research Institute (CSRI)....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Polls confirm dirty politics out and the Conservatives in
    The latest 3News-Reid Research poll has the Conservative Party on 4.6 per cent which means they are virtually on their way to Parliament. Garth McVicar, the Conservative Party candidate for the Napier electorate believes the polls are proof that the...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Toke the Vote 2014: NORML’s guide to NZ cannabis policies
    NORML’s policy, renewed at our recent national conference , is to encourage supporters to vote for parties and candidates who will work to reform our cannabis laws....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Internet Mana List Embodies Modern Aotearoa
    An impressive mix of personal and professional skills, cultural backgrounds and ages marks the release of Internet MANA’s combined party list. “Our list highlights the calibre of talent woven throughout Internet MANA,” said leader Hone Harawira....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • The Dirty Politics Fallout
    Tonight’s 3News-Reid Research poll shows that the Conservative Party is on the verge of making it into the next Parliament, even without an electorate deal with National. The poll, conducted in the week following the release of Nicky Hager’s...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Te reo Māori trending at New Zealand Fashion Week
    Language and fashion express culture and identity so it’s fitting for the Māori Party to launch its te reo Māori policy at New Zealand’s premiere fashion event in Auckland....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Party And Candidate Lists for 2014 Election Released
    The Electoral Commission has released the nominations for the 2014 General Election, with 15 registered political parties and 554 candidates contesting the election....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Take Steps Against Child Poverty with Us!
    TAKE STEPS AGAINST CHILD POVERTY WITH US! Britomart to Aotea Square, Auckland, 11am, Saturday 6 Sept Music * Interactive Art * Stilt Walkers * Great Speakers * Plus more!...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Leading politicians to debate NZ’s role in the world
    Have you ever wondered where New Zealand stands when it comes to issues beyond our borders? Join Amnesty International's North Shore Group on Monday 1 September for a lively cross party debate and the chance to find out the answer...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Political Debate on Family Violence – Livestream
    The Dunedin Collaboration Against Family Violence is happy to announce the upcoming political debate on Family Violence chaired by Professor Nicola Atwool of the University of Otago. Family Violence is a huge problem in our community and we invite representatives...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Politicians ignore 20% of New Zealanders
    Despite 20% of New Zealanders supporting it, none of the parties currently represented in Parliament endorse the legalisation of cannabis....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Company tax rates
    The Op Ed pages of the left-leaning New York Times are full of articles by economists supporting proposals to dramatically lower Company Taxes. These economists are urging the United States to lower company taxes and point to Canada where the...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Stephen Dudley Case: No appeal or review of discharge
    On 8 August 2014 Crown Law received a request from the office of the Auckland Crown Solicitor to consider a Crown appeal against the discharge without conviction entered in respect of M in the High Court at Auckland on 7...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Dudley Family Statement
    “We are utterly devastated at the news regarding the law not allowing for this unjustified discharge without conviction to be appealed....
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Chief Judge: Chief Sized Offender Bias
    “Justice by name, not by nature” states Ruth Money Sensible Sentencing Trust National Spokesperson, of Justice Helen Winkelmann’s decision to discharge without conviction the offender charged with the fatal attack on 15 year old schoolboy Stephen...
    Scoop politics | 27-08
  • Confusion over BPS Reducing Crime and Reoffending Results
    A survey has revealed widespread confusion – even amongst professionals in the justice sector – about what the government’s reducing crime and reoffending progress reports actually mean....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Commission condemns violent attack on Gay Wellingtonians
    The Human Rights Commission has condemned a violent attack on staff and patrons at a gay bar in central Wellington last Friday. GayNZ reported that the alleged attackers were abusive and violent when they realised the bar and the people...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • One down, 12 to go says Community Housing Aotearoa
    The Waimahia Inlet is a step in the right direction for community housing to deliver 20% of New Zealand’s social and affordable housing by 2020, says Community Housing Aotearoa. CHA Director Scott Figenshow says the sector has been set a...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Research considering changes to pedestrian crossing laws
    A University of Canterbury research project has been considering the costs and benefits of a range of potential changes to pedestrian crossing laws that would bring New Zealand in line with the rest of the world....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Dairy farmers and consumers at risk from unapproved GE Grain
    The Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) must immediately test all maize and soy for presence of unapproved GE lines coming from the Americas....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • NZ on Air Refuse to Condemn “Kill the PM” Song
    New Zealand On Air has refused to condemn @peace’s 'Kill the PM' song, and will not provide any assurance that no further taxpayer money will be used to support groups that promote violence and political hate. Earlier today the Taxpayers’...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • iPredict Ltd 2014 Election Update #32
    The combined wisdom of iPredict’s 8000 registered traders suggests National has begun a recovery after its prospects crashed last week following the release of Nicky Hager’s book Dirty Politics . The governing party’s forecast party vote is back...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Juicy carrot for prisoners alarming suggestion – McVicar
    The Conservative Party Justice Spokesman, Garth McVicar says the public will be alarmed to learn that the only tool the Corrections Department has available to get prisoners to behave is to offer them a juicy carrot....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Panel: Fiji’s Return to Democracy
    Fiji’s post-coup elections and their impact in the Pacific o What is the role of the media in the Elections? o How might New Zealand help Fiji on its return to democracy?...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Cross-party consensus on climate change critical
    Senior NZ health professionals welcome recent policy announcements on climate change by major political parties, saying cross-party consensus is critical to address this leading health issue....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Minister of Transport to Attend Election Debate Tomorrow
    Organisers of tomorrow night's transport debate in Auckland are delighted that Minister of Transport Hon. Gerry Brownlee will now be attending....
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Society Applauds Proposed NZ-Wide Risk Assessment
    The Wise Response Society is heartened to see that Labour' just released Climate Change policy includes formal support for the Society's call for a New Zealand-wide Risk Assessment. The Green Party has also formally acknowledged support for the Wise...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
  • Iwi Leaders welcome Labour policy on climate change
    Labour’s policy to stamp out price – gouging by big polluters that has cost New Zealand tax-payers $1.4 billion over the last 3 years and especially impacted low – income Maori households has been welcomed by Dr. Apirana Mahuika, Chairman...
    Scoop politics | 26-08
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