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Rotten

Written By: - Date published: 4:24 pm, February 14th, 2014 - 269 comments
Categories: john key, national, same old national - Tags: ,

Stuff has an astounding interview with John Key where he reveals he has regular catch-ups with Cameron Slater.

We’ve always known that there were close ties between National and the abomination that is Whaleoil but now we know that the ties go right to the top.

As Danyl recently pointed out Slater has a history of filth that goes as far as mocking the deaths of Kiwi kids. Now we know that’s who the Prime Minister gets information and advice from.
What a rotten bunch.

269 comments on “Rotten”

  1. fender 1

    “What a rotten bunch”

    +1

  2. stever 2

    They are the Hollowmen.

    And is it a two-way conduit for information? Let’s the see the evidence that it is not…because why would the Whale bother otherwise?

    Or perhaps “talking to the PM” gets him off enough??

    Man, this is nasty stuff.

  3. In fact, let’s quote Danyl’s post:

    “To me this material marks Slater out as an obvious sociopath, someone so horribly damaged that all you can do is pity them and ignore them. Right? So I find it a little weird that so many other people read Slater’s site and don’t have a problem with how deranged it is. The Justice Minister Judith Collins is a huge fan; the Prime Minister’s office supply him with content. He’s a regular guest on various talk-back radio shows. Duncan Garner and Sean Plunket appear to be WhaleOil fans. The Herald’s media columnist John Drinnan routinely links to his site.”

    and add to its roll of dishonour “Prime Minister John Key has regular catch-ups with him.”

    • weka 3.1

      Thanks, that’s a good link. What Slater actually does needs to be made visible to mainstream NZ, so they can see who their Prime Minister is mates with.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 3.2

      +1 PM.

      I don’t read WO – perhaps one visit per year to check if people are telling the truth about some vileness. I get my impression of it second-hand.

      Now – via Danyl – I know he has made a habit of this ghoulish mockery, it reinforces my first thought on reading Key’s admission. Poison is king.

      This is foul.

      • Reid 3.2.1

        Funnily enough that’s exactly what I do with The Stranded – one visit per year to check if people are telling the truth about some vileness.

        Normally my prediction comes true and it turns out they’re just confused and bewildered.

        Well, that’s it for another year.

        • stever 3.2.1.1

          Bye bye then.

          Don’t trip over your smugness on the way out.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 3.2.1.2

          Ouch :twisted:

          Open wide, Reid; here comes the drill.

        • xtasy 3.2.1.3

          “Reid” between the lines, it says: “Farrar”, “Kiwiblog”, “Farrar”, “Kiwiblog”, “Farrar”, “Kiwiblog”, “Far*ar(se)”, “Kiwiflog”.

          Yep, a preconditioned mindset will let the truth look like lies, brainwashing works, indeed!

        • mickysavage 3.2.1.4

          Reid at least on the Standard we have discussions and exchange ideas. I mean I read Slater’s stuff to see who he is sliming and who is leaking to him but really? Comparing the robust discussion at the Standard with the slime of Slater’s blog??

          • Jimmie 3.2.1.4.1

            Seriously?

            Have you never read a thread on here when someone of a mildly right wing persuasion makes a comment (not a flame troll or whatever) but an articulate and reasoned point of view about what ever the subject is.

            The number of left wing comments where the commentator is mocked, laughed, insulted, and ridiculed is quite astounding. (Note that rarely are their comments criticized by a reasoned or thoughtful manner, but personal abuse is quite rampant here)

            This has caused a situation where the only group of folk left here are the rabid left.

            It is no wonder that the standard is stuck in a rut and going no where numbers wise as the commentariat have decided that dissenting opinions are not to be tolerated.

            • mickysavage 3.2.1.4.1.1

              OK Jimmie

              Provide an example and then let the debate begin.

              And BTW the Standard is doing fine thank you very much.

              • SHG (not Colonial Viper)

                Two examples from my own recent experience:

                When I commented that Parekura Horomia appeared to have eaten himself to death on the taxpayer’s tab and referred to the food component of his Ministerial expense reports, I was instantly described as “a lying disrespectful son of a bitch”, in spite of the fact that I had posted all the expense claims for comment.

                When I pointed out just last week that the current immigration-law imbalance between NZ and Australia is a state of affairs approved by a Labour Government, I was called “an advert for post-natal abortion”. At one point I posted some immigration numbers (for humour value: I didn’t say the numbers were from a paper by Phil Goff) and I was called “stupid and deceitful” displaying “gutter-level partisan hypocrisy”.

                This place is just as vicious as Whaleoil.co.nz. But more sanctimonious.

                [lprent: You lose thread context on the RSS feed, but I'd say that the numbers of straight insults/abuse is several orders of magnitude higher at WhaleOil. We actually have a restriction in that that abuse has to be pointed - ie has to explain why they are abusing you. That is definitely not the case at Whaleoil. Justy have a look whenever any "leftie" comments there.

                But the standard specified in the policy is that we're after "robust" debate and discussion. That does not mean that people have to be polite. In fact it was specifically put into the policy because most of the "left" forums around when we started this site sounded more like petite middle class dinner parties than actual political discussions. Of course it doesn't leave you defenseless. You always have the option of robust comments yourself. Just be wary of risks with the fine line with authors on their own posts.

                Of course if you don't like the rules, then there is always the option stated in the bottom of the about. ]

                • McFlock

                  When I commented that Parekura Horomia appeared to have eaten himself to death on the taxpayer’s tab and referred to the food component of his Ministerial expense reports, I was instantly described as “a lying disrespectful son of a bitch”, in spite of the fact that I had posted all the expense claims for comment.

                  Ah, here.
                  No, not “immediately”. After some period where you basically shat all over the post announcing the death of the man. The criticism (and your ban) was valid.

                  As for the immigration one, you blamed Lab5 for the actions of the howard govt, and praised key for “concessions” that were negotiated under lab5, then argued that labour didn’t crack down on immigration because PI immigrants vote labour… well, did you really expect a polite response?

                  • SHG (not Colonial Viper)

                    No, on The Standard I never expect politeness, which is why the ad hominem attacks never ruffle me. If one voluntarily enters a room full of autistic children one doesn’t get to complain about the social skills on display. Being called a son of a bitch or an advertisement for abortion is exactly the level of discourse I expect at The Standard, and it never fails to disappoint.

                    • McFlock

                      And do you regard your initial comments about Horomia as being “polite”?

                      Seems to me that you created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      While you’re casually re-writing history, it’s “post-natal abortion”. If you’re going to whine like a victim of a preventable infectious disease you could at least get it right.

                    • SHG (not Colonial Viper)

                      LOL IT’S OK GUYS IT’S JUST DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATE HERE

                    • McFlock

                      Awww, another complaint about hurt feelings?

                      So, did you go to the tangi and complain that he ate himself to death at the taxpayers’ expense? Do you think you’d have had a polite reception there if you had?

        • mike 3.2.1.5

          I think it is fantastic that Winnie’s stupid accusations about “GCSB” spying on him were shot out of the sky. Why does Winston First think he is so important anyway? Oh that’s right, his own bloated, self-inflated sense of self importance drove him to think that the spy agencies would be interested in his moronic, self-serving inane utterances.

          regarding WO, I find it a refreshing breath of truth and directness that is so missing from the shallow, venal mass media.

          • mickysavage 3.2.1.5.1

            So Cameron has the ability to know how many times in a two year period Winston visited somewhere?

            Really?

  4. Rich 4

    I wonder if information from GCSB/NZSIS/Police gets laundered through Slater – wouldn’t be hard for someone in one of those (or in the US Embassy) to feed him anything they find that’s of relevance. It’s happened before.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1

      That occurred to me too. “If the prime minister said that’s the case, that’s the case.”

    • Roflcopter 4.2

      That’s awesome… I hope you stroke that line for all it’s worth… it’s gold!

    • Mary 4.3

      Most of the things that appear on Slater’s site, apart from the links to stupid youtube videos, are way beyond his intellect. He’s been fed totally manufactured and wholly complete pieces of horse shit from others for very long time, now. That’s obvious, and of course it’s always been likely that those who do this have at least strong links with the National Party and other right-wing thugs. The significance of Key’s admission today is that it confirms what we’ve suspected has been happening all along. If Key and Slater talk regularly is it possible that Key’s people and Slater don’t talk regularly?

      • Mary 4.3.1

        Or then again, is it just a smokescreen to divert attention away from Key getting the information from the spies, and that the truth is that he’s passed this information on to Slater? Where did Slater get it from? Rachel Glucina? Pete Glucina? The spies via Key?

        • weka 4.3.1.1

          One of the links put up today suggested that Key ‘slipped’ when he inferred contact with Slater. Anyone else pick that up?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.3.1.1.1

            Oh it’s a massive slip up. I phone people who mock dead babies regularly, don’t you, Weka? Sure, it might be a shell game, yada yada, but John Key, Prime Minister, maintains regular contact with a man who mocks dead babies for money, and that, my friend, is an opportunity.

            • Stephanie Rodgers 4.3.1.1.1.1

              What I find fascinating is that from what Key says, this is a personal interaction. It’s not that he has someone from his office keep an eye on WhaleOil, or gets a press secretary to meet regularly with Slater. He literally has regular conversations HIMSELF with Slater. That’s a massive level of access for a blogger who generally posts vileness and clickbait.

              • Mike S

                “That’s a massive level of access for a blogger who generally posts vileness and clickbait.”

                I would guess that from Key’s perspective, the only important thing is how popular is slater’s blog in terms of voters. Isn’t it the most visited NZ blog? There is some really nasty, racist, mean and sometimes even scary shit posted on his pages by his fans.

                • Rich

                  It’s pretty debatable that many of those clicks on Slater’s site are real. The going rate for click farms is about 1000 clicks a USD, so $8k* would buy 8 million of those phoney page impressions. Way cheaper than paying for a table at a National party dinner.

                  *The fine Slater’s backers were happy to cough up when he posted the names of child abuse victims.

          • karol 4.3.1.1.2

            It’s in the video, and the print text, with the Stuff article. A journo asked Key directly about Slater.

            • weka 4.3.1.1.2.1

              Thanks karol, this one I think

              http://www.stuff.co.nz/lightbox/national/politics/9723185/PMs-Whaleoil-friends?KeepThis=true

              I’m not sure how much I place on body language, but when Key says he absolutely swears his life that there’s been no public agency involved, he’s shaking his head. He does that alot right through. Is that a normal characteristic of his.

              Nice to see him squirming though, and good on the journos for actually asking the pertinent questions.

              • geoff

                That video is gold!
                He gets that semi-drunk, ‘I’ve been caught out’, stupid glazed smile and you can tell he’s thinking ‘oh crap what have I done?!?!?’

                Key said he speaks to “heaps” of bloggers. Which ones??
                I’d say he speaks to about 2 of them.

              • Murray Olsen

                Key’s body language is not that of an honest person. I suspect there is a good reason for that.

                • SpaceMonkey

                  Aside of from the stupid grin and dismissive demeanour, another of John Key’s tells that he’s lying through his teeth is the sharp intake of breath at the end of the sentence.

      • mike 4.3.2

        Its interesting to get the general view of my politically diverse mates that WO is refreshing and bluntly direct. Makes a nice change from all the gutless, whining bucket of warm wallpaper paste that passes for “news” in the mass media these days.

        • mickysavage 4.3.2.1

          “general view of my politically diverse mates”

          So male dominated and you think that they will provide a representative view. Really?

  5. Ben 5

    It is gutter politics. It is amazing how in spite of all this dirty work, Key is still quite popular according to the polls. Strange!

  6. Pascal's bookie 6

    And take a wee squizz at the press conf, where Key is being asked how Whaleoil got an OIA request from the SIS dealt with so efficiently and well suited to his purpose, from about 3:30 on

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouf5aR-8lzE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  7. JustLikeTigerWoods 7

    Whilst you’re making yourself look even more foolish by shooting the messenger, be sure not to forget the heart of the issue.

    Winston and Russel visiting his dot.com-ness.

    What was discussed? What was arranged? Why the need for a non-disclosure agreement?

    Time for some transparency, chaps. In the public interest…

    • stever 7.1

      I hope you asked the same questions after the “cup of tea” episode. Especially as the police decided to prosecute someone who might have helped in the transparency you now so crave :)

      • JustLikeTigerWoods 7.1.1

        The difference is pretty obvious. We know exactly why Key and Banks were there.

        Meanwhile, I guess it’s just a total coincidence that Norman has waded into extradition matters, and that both have asked numerous questions about the GCSB as it relates to KDC.

        Nothing to see here, I guess. Just like Brash innocently meeting the Exclusive Bretheren. Just a friendly chat. Many people on here saw nothing in that either, of course.

        All very innocent.

        • Pascal's bookie 7.1.1.1

          So you’re saying National obviously agrees with the Exclusive Brethren about stuff then, rightio. That they have longstanding well known set of beliefs that would make it obvious why they’d be talking to the EBs.

      • Paw prick 7.1.2

        Didn’t have too as it was illegally recorded …….oh the irony

    • Pascal's bookie 7.2

      laugh.

      What do Key and Whale regularly discuss? In the public interest.

      Key now looks to be Whale’s main ‘tipline is running hot’ source for all the dirt he spills. The PM, on our dime, uses a guy who’s currently facing defamation proceedings, and has previously breached court orders, to dish dirt on his political opponents.

      • SpaceMonkey 7.2.1

        Doesn’t surprise me… being a bankster, Key will find common ground with a blogster like Slater. Filth rolls with filth.

    • weka 7.3

      Pay attention Tiger. Norman’s transparency:

      Thirdly, did I discuss [with Dotcom] blocking extradition if we were in government? No. I discussed some of the issues around his multitude of court cases but not the government’s role in the extradition process. I wasn’t even aware of the role of the Minister of Justice until recently, and anyway, my opposition to the Govt approach to Dotcom has been well known for many months. I did urge him not to proceed with his party, but he carried on regardless! The Greens already lead on issues like the internet economy, digital freedom and privacy; the risk is that the Internet party could actually help National get re-elected by wasting votes. But don’t expect any of these facts to get in the way of a national Party smear campaign.

      Full text needs FB login https://www.facebook.com/dave.kennedy.1610/posts/10203049641582800#_=_

      • Bob 7.3.1

        “I did urge him not to proceed with his party, but he carried on regardless!”
        And yet all of a sudden Dotcom is going to drop his party if he isn’t polling at the 5% threshold ahead of the election……what did Russell Norman offer for him to agree to this? Is this the reason for the sudden renewal of interest in his case and now a proclamation that both Labour and the Greens will help to fight the extradition if voted into power?
        Imagine if National or specifically John Key was involved in this situation!
        These back room dealings have done no-one on the left any favours, despite the obvious attempts at deflections, like this post. NEWSFLASH – The leader of NZ’s largest right wing party has had discussions with NZ’s largest right wing blogger…….wow, what a scoop that is!
        Hasn’t David Cunliffe had guest posts on The Standard before? It’s an outrage!!!

        • Pascal's bookie 7.3.1.1

          “And yet all of a sudden Dotcom is going to drop his party if he isn’t polling at the 5% threshold ahead of the election”

          Shocking, that a German would understand how MMP works. Politicians pulling out of a race and endorsing another candidate is hardly an inexplicable thing.

          Likewise, the Greens have been all over the Governments failings in due process towards Mr dotCom since the story broke.

          Do you think Norman would have answered the question any differently if the Internet Party had never been dreamed up?

          There’s no real there there, in this ‘deal theory’. It all comes down to ‘Oh it looks bad, if you assume it is bad’. But the theory doesn’t actually explain why people are doing things. Both people are doing what you could reasonably expect without there being a deal, or even without the other side of the alleged deal even being an issue.

          ie:

          If there was no Internet party, would the Greens be quite likely to look more favourably on declining to extradite DotCom than National? Yes. So there is no need for a deal to explain this side of it

          Would DotCom be likely to pull out of a race if it became obvious that by staying in the race it would be counterproductive? Yes. So again, there is no need for a deal to explain his behaviour.

          The deal theory, in short, explains nothing, and has no evidence to support it..

    • Hami Shearlie 7.4

      As private citizens who are not Dot.Com’s local MPs’ and who are not Government Ministers spending Government money, I wouldn’t have thought that what they discussed with Dot.Com is anyone’s business but theirs! Dot.Com is now a political party leader and it’s normal for party leaders to meet with each other from time to time, just like John Key meets with Act’s leader and Colin Craig!

  8. Disraeli Gladstone 8

    Danyl also tweeted:

    “I sometimes talk to the rats in the gutters but that doesn’t mean I endorse plague”.

    That sums up what I think on the matter.

    • weka 8.1

      Not sure who the rat in the gutter is in this case, but Key isn’t talking to Slater sometimes. He’s having regular weekly briefings with the guy.

      • stever 8.1.1

        Perhaps they share the gutter. Rats can be sweet, you know.

      • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 8.1.2

        +1 Weka

        Makes me view Disraeli as a shill – minimising and dismissing the matter – ‘nothing to see here, let’s move on now

        Pathetic that these people pander to interests that don’t serve any of us – including themselves.

        • weka 8.1.2.1

          Not sure about completely dismissing someone on the basis of one comment though bl :-)

        • Disraeli Gladstone 8.1.2.2

          Does that make Danyl a shill as well even though he was used in the post itself as an example of Whale’s vileness?

          It’s simple really.

          From what I’ve seen of his blog, Slater is not a nice person. He is cruel and vindictive. However, due to the media wanting to talk and play off him (for reasons unknown), he has become a player in the political world. He is quoted by actual journalist and can set a news agenda.

          John Key is a pragmatist. We’ve seen that since his first day as party leader, if not before. So it doesn’t surprise me that Key is holding his nose and is now talking directly to Slater (as well as others) to help shape news agenda and pick up on salacious bits of gossip.

          It’s not particularly nice. It’s not cricket, that’s for sure. There’s no fair play involved. But it’s also not Key endorsing Slater’s brand of hatefulness. He’s using him. And when he’s not hot property, he’ll be dropped that quick as possible.

          Boiled down to its roots: it’s good politics, bad humanity. And politics will trumps humanity until the wider public cares and let’s face it, most people don’t have a clue who Slater is.

          • Clemgeopin 8.1.2.2.1

            To me, MOST IMPORTANTLY, this is not the New Zealand way.

          • Pascal's bookie 8.1.2.2.2

            Slater isn’t talked to by the ninth floor because he gets newsworthy stuff. That’s bass akwards.

            Jason Ede wasn’t hired to work in the PMs office in spite of him previously blogging on WO.

            The PM isn’t holding his nose, ffs.

          • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 8.1.2.2.3

            @ Disraeli Gladstone

            However, due to the media wanting to talk and play off him (for reasons unknown), he has become a player in the political world. He is quoted by actual journalist and can set a news agenda

            Why are you painting such a neutral and innocent picture here?

            “For some unknown reason”?

            Slater is the son of a former National party president and he just ‘happens’ to gain political influence with his highly questionable blogsite.

            Oh really?

            Then Key ‘admits’ to speaking with the guy on a regular basis just when there are accusations about where Key got the information about Winston Peter’s activities from.

            And you really think there is nothing to see here?

            Key is creating a dishonest distraction to a pretty serious issue – that he is using our secret services for his own party’s political agenda while he is PM.

            And you (along with a large majority, no doubt) believe Key when he swears on his life that our secret services are not being abused in this way?

            Well you are a bigger and more naïve fool than I am.

            Put it this way is Key’s life ‘worth much’ if he were found to be abusing our system in such a way while PM?

            Pretty cheap to swear on such a life, is my view.

            “Boiled down to its roots: it’s good politics, bad humanity.”

            Boiled down to its roots good politics cannot be bad humanity.

            Is it that you are meaning to say that it is ‘good political strategy’ -dishonest and deceptive as it is – doing something (anything) that will effectively fool people into voting against their own interests and get National into power again?

            This above approach is not an authentic expression of democracy – it undermines sound democracy and therefore I very much disagree that it is ‘good politics’ – it is very bad form – and very bad ‘politics’ – and I don’t see any room for viewing this as good for our society in any way.

            Why are you apologising for and minimising the real issue of this recent announcement?

            Because it gets who you want into power?

            To hell with what is really good for the greatest number of people in the long run?

            ??

  9. Ad 9

    LPrent will be looking forward to his weekly chats with Prime Minister David Cunliffe.

    The gossip won’t be as good, but the collected Labour wisdom far greater.

    • lprent 9.1

      LPrent will be looking forward to his weekly chats with Prime Minister David Cunliffe.

      Highly unlikely. I’m too damn busy to waste time chattering with charming people. Besides I’d be worried that some of that political affability would disturb my carefully cultivated abrasive personality. Ask many Labour politicians over the last few decades and they’re confirm that I seldom deign to talk to them – even when I’m working with them. After all they’re neither programmers nor activists – the two groups I tend to like spending time with, and they aren’t family.

      With Key and Slater, well… The good thing about having two arseholes rubbing against each other and you can’t tell where the brown stains came from.

  10. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 10

    Looks like Judge Blackie got it correct after all when he ruled Whale Oil as ‘not a news medium’ in that court-case – it is the Nat Party propaganda site – like so many people already suspected.

  11. bad12 11

    Slippery the Prime Minister tosses us all a bone in the form of Blubber boy from ‘wail-oil’ and laughs like a loon as we all fall all over each other snarling about the filth,

    Really tho??? when has the Liar occupying the 9th floor ever once told New Zealand the truth while extricating Himself from the latest bout of self induced ‘foot’n’mouth’ disease???,

    i would suggest that the latest uttering of an excuse from Slippery is simply number one hundred and something to be added to Blips long long list of the PM’s litany…

  12. chris73 12

    So not the GCSB then :)

    • stever 12.1

      No :)

      Far worse.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2

      No, a man who mocks dead children for money.

      If you can’t see the problem for National here, that’s all good with me.

      • chris73 12.2.1

        I’m loving the impotent gnashing of teeth and howls of indignation when all everyone will remember is Norman selling out the Greens principles to KDC :)

        • karol 12.2.1.1

          Ah. But just think. Next time WO breaks a sleazy politically charged story, people will be asking if he got it from Key in one of their chats.

        • stever 12.2.1.2

          Hmmm..I think you need to read the accounts of the meeting..which do exist out in the open…unlike some tea parties we saw but were not allowed to hear :)

          • chris73 12.2.1.2.1

            As Kiwiblog puts it:

            [Also of interest are the two dates that Russel Norman flew (at taxpayer expense, like Winston) to meet Dotcom. He met Dotcom on the 1st and 29th of November 2013.

            On the very same day he met him on the 1st, he attacked the Police on Radio NZ over Dotcom’s case. Shouldn’t the leader of a party that believes in transparency have revealed “Oh by the way I just met with my buddy Kim this morning, and tried to persuade him not to set up his own political party, and instead endorse the Greens”

            And then again on the 29th, when he again met Dotcom, he was again in the media talking about his case – again with no mention of his meetings, and attempt to get Dotcom to endorse the Greens instead of set up his own party.]

            and of course the Greens loved talking about Sky City deals with no mention of the deals they were doing with KDC

        • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2.1.3

          Chris73 [citation needed]

          How is policy made in the Green party? How are the leaders chosen?
          How is policy made in the National Party? How is the leader chosen?

          Was it you who described this government as a “hypocracy”?

          • chris73 12.2.1.3.1

            How is policy made in the Green party? How are the leaders chosen?

            – Like the PM (and unlike Norman) I don’t have KDCs phone number (or do I and I just forgot?) so I can’t ask him

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 12.3

      @ Chris73

      Who is to say that John Key got the info from Slater?

      JK could have passed the info that he got from the GCSB to Slater.

      • chris73 12.3.1

        Really? You still think the GCSB is involved in this?

        • weka 12.3.1.1

          Where do you think Slater got the info from chris?

          • chris73 12.3.1.1.1

            I think (like most things) the simplest explanation is the most likely:

            A. so its either the PM of NZ set the GCSB to spy on Winston Peters or something similar

            B. one or more disgruntled ex-employees or people owed money by KDC have spoken to someone whos then passed it onto Slater (or something similar)

            Considering how often the tip line gets used I’d say its B

            • One Anonymous Bloke 12.3.1.1.1.1

              Who cares? John Key has confessed his part in the mockery of dead children. Metaphorically speaking, he is about to be very slowly ripped apart by dogs, and then vultures will pick his bones clean.

              Watch and learn, Chrissy.

            • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 12.3.1.1.1.2

              Um – B isn’t the simplest explanation though chris, it requires a backstory ‘one or more disgruntled ex-employees.

              whereas it is already known that GCSB spy on NZers – infact wasn’t that made legal just recently?

              I’m unclear why it is such a big issue that a political leader would talk to another political leader

              …whereas Mr Key talking on a regular basis with that sleazy website operator….well that smacks of Key interfering with news-like information… i.e. propaganda….that is a big issue – big news.

              • chris73

                “I’m unclear why it is such a big issue that a political leader would talk to another political leader”

                You don’t understand why Norman asking KDC to not run and then state he’d fight against his extradition is a big issue?

                Is it Norman (allegedly) asking for KDCs support and in return saying you’ll fight for him?

                Is it Norman being on the ISC which has been dealing with KDC and the GCSB all the while Normans (allegedly) doing deals with KDC?

                Is it the Greens being scathing about deals being done with rich businessmen then going off and (allegedly) doing a deal with…a rich businessmen

                • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                  Nope, that is all nonsense.

                  I guess I am simply not afflicted with the right wing projection-cum-delusional-fantasies that you are.

                  Top marks for garbled fantasy there, though, c73 – I do believe you exceeded yourself.

                  • chris73

                    So what was nonsense then?

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      The lot of it – sorry if I didn’t make myself clear.

                    • McFlock

                      fuckwit, can’t you read? All of it.

                    • chris73

                      Oh I understand, you don’t like how it sounds so you dismiss it and thats cool because whats said and posted on this site changes virtually nothing but what does matter is the view of the voters and in this case I think more people will agree with my sentiments (Norman screwed up big time) then yours

                      Of course we can only wait and see what happens at the next election to see whos right

                    • McFlock

                      the clue is when even a deranged propagandist like yourself needs to use the word “allegedly”. This demonstrates that someone with an already fractious and combative relationship with reality has lack of any hope of evidence of the muck they’re shoveling.

                    • chris73

                      Well no McFlock the reason I used it was I know that if I didn’t use the phrase “allegedly” I’d get a two week holiday for besmirching Normans good name

                    • McFlock

                      Golly, so you’re actually learning how to avoid outright defaming people you don’t like.
                      Good for you.

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      “Oh I understand, you don’t like how it sounds so you dismiss it and thats cool because whats said and posted on this site changes virtually nothing but what does matter is the view of the voters and in this case I think more people will agree with my sentiments (Norman screwed up big time) then yours” – Chris73

                      No, apparently you don’t understand –

                      Despite sounding like a small pig when it has been picked up; this is not why I dismiss it.

                      I dismiss it because it sounds like rubbish – the type of exaggerated, frothing at the mouth, nonsense, made up by some bored jonolist-cum-spin doctor (I do apologize but I’m having difficulty telling the difference between them these days)

                      Of course we can only wait and see what happens at the next election to see whos right

                      We already know whose ‘right’ and an election doesn’t decide between ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ , you noddy, so there you go, wrong again.

                • Murray Olsen

                  “You don’t understand why Norman asking KDC to not run and then state he’d fight against his extradition is a big issue?”

                  Any honest Kiwi politician who lubes themselves up for Washington and refuses to fight against KDC’s extradition is a big issue. It’s called national sovereignty, and despite having kidnapped half the name, NAct have no idea what it means.

                  • Paw prick

                    Sigh.
                    NZ has a extradition treaty with the US

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Which does not allow authoritarian behaviour and arbitrary rule of law, one hopes.

                    • Pascal's bookie

                      We also have laws governing the use of the GCSB.

                      We have a PM who was conveniently watching his kid play rounders in the US when the GCSB got bIll English ot signa warrant in an attempt to cover up the fact they had been breaking those laws.

                      English, the PMs chief of staff, and the GCSB all ‘forgot’ to tell the PM that this once in a decade warrant to hide the GCSB’s tracks had been signed.

                      Just one of several ‘coincidences’ that happened to keep the PM out of the loop in what turned out to be a highly political extradition, for actions that are not crimes in NZ.

                      So you can sigh your extradition treaty with the US, which you clearly don’t understand anyway, and toddle off back to laughing-at-dead-babies-land son.

                    • Murray Olsen

                      Thanks for proving my point, Mr. Prick. Now give me a case where we have extradited someone to the US and A on a civil matter.
                      Then tell me what “fruit of a poisonous tree” is.
                      Then show me the section of the extradition treaty that allows US agents to remove evidence from a Kiwi court without authorisation.

                      After that, you can sigh as much as you like.

                • framu

                  “nd then state he’d fight against his extradition is a big issue?”

                  thats just bullshit – the greens have pub;icly and unchangingly stated their position on the KDC case for ages

                  is time a tricky concept for you?

            • bad12 12.3.1.1.1.3

              Or (c), the SIS have had DotCom under surveillance all the time, knowing who goes to the Coatsville Mansion and knowing who DotCom meets when He is out and about,

              My pick is (c)…

              • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                +1 bad12

              • chris73

                Sure it wasn’t the GCSB?

                • McFlock

                  well, they do have a habit of illegally spying on new zealanders, so we’d best not rule it out completely yet…

                  • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                    I thought it had been made legal?

                    • chris73

                      Do you mean retrospectively changing the law? Can’t think of any party that would do that…

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Glad you are taking the creation of a legal framework for a surveillance state so co-operatively.

                      Youll find it great when a Labour Govt gets to use those same powers.

                • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                  How the heck are we supposed to know which one it is? They are secret services, remember?

                • bad12

                  Yep, pretty sure, the GCSB are more involved in the electronic stuff, you know monitoring internet contacts and cell phone conversations/txts,

                  If physical observation of a premises or a person are required the SIS do the slog, i don’t know the topography around DotComs place but i could probably pick out the likely location they watch His place from in 5 or 10 minutes with some accuracy if i got a look at the area surrounding the DotCom Mansion,

                  Slippery of course is telling half the truth about the info and ‘wail-oil’s’ Blubber boy, the phone call didn’t pass info from Blubber boy to Slippery, the reverse is the case…

                  • Anne

                    i don’t know the topography around DotComs place but i could probably pick out the likely location they watch His place from in 5 or 10 minutes with some accuracy if i got a look at the area surrounding the DotCom Mansion,

                    Don’t think they have to do that anymore Bad 12. They have highly sophisticated microwave equipment they can train on any site and sit and watch the comings and goings from a remote location. The GCSB are quite capable of such activity as is no doubt the SIS. The necessity to be ‘close’ to the site under surveillance has long gone.

                    • bad12

                      Anne, i have seen the microwave system you speak of being operated, it requires line of sight to be effective and those operating it to be dressd in protective clothing,(presumably from the micro-waves), the one time i seen such an operation in progress the protective gear being worn was hilariously snow white,

                      Perhaps these days, my view was some 10 years ago, the spooks have become a bit more sophisticated and wear orange gear to blend in with the myriad tele-comms crews that pop up irregularly,

                      When following DotCom when He is not at home such gear would be pretty much useless which is why i suggest that it is the less technical SIS that has the main role in the surveillance of DotCom…

                    • Colonial Viper

                      And who says the govt services cant give people cancer. Several of the surveillance techniques revealed by Snowden involve irradiating target rooms or equipment with significant microwave and radio energy. Which has never been tested for health effects.

    • Puddleglum 12.4

      So not the GCSB then

      Hard to say.

      Slater has regular chats with John Key (Minister in charge of the GCSB) and, according to Slater:

      He described his relationship with Key as “professional … where I ask questions and he gives me answers“.

      Oddly, Key seemed to think that his regular chats involved him finding out what was on Slater’s site and what Slater was thinking about:

      Key said he regularly called Slater, who broke the story of the Len Brown affair, “to see what he’s got on his site and mind.”

      They don’t seem to communicate very well with each other – quite muddled views from them on what’s going on when they talk.

  13. Paul 13

    This is a disgraceful admission when a government leader admits his sources news from the sewer.

  14. Ron 14

    Whilst on subject of WO can anyone confirm that his recent problems with website that he made a big thing out of suggesting it was a DDOS attack was actually just himself messing up a change on his domain record and he forget about reducing his TTL on domain record way before he made the changes so the replication happened quickly
    In other words there was no DDOS attack just a snafu by Chief Blubber

    • lprent 14.1

      I’ve done that myself. But I didn’t have anything above a 3 hour (seldom have it above a small number of minutes these days to make for rapid fallbacks). I didn’t check the TTL.

      But it’d be unusual to change suppliers because of that. Unless they were changing anyway.

    • chris73 14.2

      I can confirm it wasn’t a snafu

      • andy (the other one) 14.2.1

        Do you have regular chit chats with Whaleoil?

      • Ron 14.2.2

        Elucidate? please

        • chris73 14.2.2.1

          The reason has been answered on his website

          • McFlock 14.2.2.1.1

            So your ability to “confirm” is based on a story from WO?

            Shit, that’s like taking Colin Craig and going too far the other way. The infantile panty-sniffing sleaze-merchant stalker said that he didn’t make a mistake, so it must be true. Good luck with that.

      • Tracey 14.2.3

        Being a parent doesnt mean you are a teacher. Knowing what a law means doesnt make you a lawyer.

        Can you post your evidence

  15. idlegus 15

    the nats are accusing the greens & labour of been paid to ask key questions, maybe key/nats have been paying whaleoil to publish articles…

    • chris73 15.1

      The difference is theres a time line of Norman visiting KDC and then stating they’d fight the extradition whereas theres still no proof of the Nats paying Whaleoil

      • North 15.1.1

        You’re still not happy about it though are you Chris…….in your heart of hearts…….you know, your idol…….slumming it ? With “feral”…….you’d rather it not be so what ?

        • chris73 15.1.1.1

          You could exactly the same thing about Norman making the pilgrimage to KDC, kowtowing to a millionaire businessmen, dealing all sorts of nudge-nudge wink-wink deals.

          The Greens are all sanctimonious about National doing deals like Sky City, the left love going on about the hollowmen, T. Mallard was banging on about american bagmen and yet Norman gets a whiff of power and all the goodwill the Greens have built up has been blown out

          The Greens are just like every other political party in NZ, they’d sell out in a second just to get into power

          • idlegus 15.1.1.1.1

            the difference is this has blown up in keys face, & proves the media is right wing, & basically anything you say chris73 has been proven again & again to be BS. (tv3/gower didnt run this story at all…they cant protect key forever)

            • chris73 15.1.1.1.1.1

              Really? The story was Norman doing a deal with KDC and thats still current then the story was JK using the GCSB to spy on Winston and thats been proven false and now the story is JK talks to bloggers?

              Wow the left must be desperate (well yes I know they’re always desperate) but if you think spraying and hoping is the way to go then you’re going to be dissapointed

              • idlegus

                emphasis on ‘story’, yep. no, im not hoping it will go away, key is in deep shit, talking to ‘blogsters’, lol!

              • Crunchtime

                The article doesn’t mention Russell Norman. It’s an interview with John Key. You’re obviously ok about making stuff up about Russell Norman, while accepting everything that Slater says as gospel. Making you a reliable source of truth. NAAAAHHT.

      • andy (the other one) 15.1.2

        Did you imagine that, like above?

  16. North 16

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9723130/Looks-like-Slater-is-Keys-Peters-source

    How ferally verily instructive…….scum slops up together. Great look for the mana of the office of prime minister what ?

    What a royal fuck up…….given SlaterPorn imploring Winston to tell the truth for “once in his life” (see article), can you see Winston ever going with a National Party led by ShonKey Python ? Damn…….this is getting more visceral than Toryana Torya re Helen.

    Hang on…….what about a National Party not led by ShonKey Python ?

    Who’s put a price on whose head here ?

    • Ron 16.1

      Winston for PM??!! he is really a Tory at heart

      Hang on…….what about a National Party not led by ShonKey Python ?

  17. Crunchtime 17

    Well well well, the cat’s out of the bag.

    Key confirms he slums it with offensive misogynist hateful muckraking assholes. What a surprise.

    • chris73 17.1

      Well well well, the cat’s out of the bag.

      Norman confirms hes willing to sell NZ out to someone convicted of computer fraud and data espionage, insider trading and embezzlement. What a surprise.

      Fixed it for you.

      • McFlock 17.1.1

        nah, see the first version was an accurate depiction of reality.

      • framu 17.1.2

        “Norman confirms ”

        confirms what exactly?!

        the bit you keep forgetting is your basing everything on a single accusation from an opponent who is neck deep in his own problems on the same issue

  18. the pigman 18

    Stuff is very good at burying its stories from even 24 hours ago…

    But didn’t Keyes say something yesterday along the lines of “the person I heard about the visits from couldn’t be said to be affiliated with the National party” or words to that effect?

    And it’s Cameron Slater… the son of the former National Party president, John Slater… ?

    Hmm.. where’s the hysterical, spit-taking laughter smiley when you need it?

  19. Sanctuary 19

    Now we know what Slater’s “tipline” is.

    • andy (the other one) 19.1

      Key also talked about bloggers plural. I am sure that Key/Eade/Whaleoil and Farrar talk daily.

      Farrar used to work in the Nats research unit…Seems he is still on the internal mailing list.

      • Pascal's bookie 19.1.1

        Lol. His office is in the same building as Nat hq.

        • andy (the other one) 19.1.1.1

          Jeabus..

          I have to say, Farrar is good. He uses the same bullshit as teh Herald. Bury the truth stuff below the fold. He always post a massively long screed when the nats are in trouble, banking on the fact that the drones will not read beyond his first paragraph of lies and innuendo. Then comment accordingly like a conga line of stupid.

  20. Polish Pride 20

    Wow! I see the Left vs Right political paradigm will remain alive and well for many decades to come due to a complete and utter failure of either side to bother to take the time to understand what it is that the other side actually want and why.
    Truly sad as it will simply mean neither side will get what it is that they really want for the foreseeable future.
    Whats sadder is that when you read some of the vile comments on here one begins to see quite clearly that on some level there isn’t a great deal of difference between posters on either site.

    • McFlock 20.1

      it’s okay, robots will save us. /sarc

      • Polish Pride 20.1.1

        Yeah McFlock I guess we could just keep doing things the exact same way we have for the last 100 years and expect a different result….. and you can continue to whinge and moan about all of the problems you see from the comfort of your keyboard because afterall if your not prepared to look at change then are you really anything more than a whinger and a moaner in the bigger scheme of things….?

        There’s plenty of guys just like you over on Whaleoil too.

        • McFlock 20.1.1.1

          I look at realistic change, not fantasy.

          Maybe in another few hundred years we’ll be close to your ideal – then we have to figure out how to satisfy the people who want something other than what your slide-rule says they should want. Because they’ll be the majority.

          • Polish Pride 20.1.1.1.1

            I think perhaps its you that’s not ready for that magnitude of change.
            You say you look at realistic change.. What? by commenting on a left wing blog and preaching to the converted!?
            You’re not about change.. You’re all about staying in your comfort zone.

            The stuff I and others like me are talking about can be proven to be the best system for every single individual and the planet itself using systems analysis. It also through the same theory disproves Capitalism.

            • McFlock 20.1.1.1.1.1

              … because commenting here is the only thing I do?

              That depth of analysis is exactly why you’re in a dreamworld, no better than morrissey or philU.

              • Morrissey

                That depth of analysis is exactly why you’re in a dreamworld, no better than morrissey or philU.

                Could you back up your statement that I am “in a dreamworld”?

                Thanks for that, my scholarly friend.

                • McFlock

                  I’m not your friend, guy.

                  Why would I bother either linking to arguments we had only three or four months ago, or repeating the exhaustive process of demonstrating that what you have said more recently is merely a dadaesque caricature of reality? You’ll only paper over it with extreme cognitive dissonance (yet again), probably as a method of avoiding the fact that you’re not the genius leader of the modern revolutionary zeitgeist.

                  • Professor Longhair

                    “Why would I bother either linking to arguments we had only three or four months ago?”

                    TRANSLATION: This chap is unable to argue his case.

                    • McFlock

                      which chap – me?

                      The point was that we’ve only just finished an extremely long argument to demonstrate to morrissey’s satisfaction that morrisseys “accurate” “transcripts” turned out to be neither accurate nor transcripts. Now he’s apparently forgotten all about that, so we’re expected to repeat the process from scratch? Or I should trawl through each of our comments until I find it, at which point we will still repeat the process?

                      I love a pointless argument as much as the next chap (possibly more than), but I prefer different ones rather than repeating the same one over and over again, weeks apart.

                  • Morrissey

                    This fellow’s attacks on me have been repeatedly exposed as spurious, dishonest, and driven by nothing more than politically motivated rancour. This all stems, I would remind readers, from my calling him on his craven support for the brutal campaign of lies aimed at, first, Julian Assange, then at Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden.

                    I am happy to post up any of the arse-kickings I have dealt out to him over the last few years, but readers who are interested in seeing someone out of his depth get a spanking (of the non-salacious variety) should peruse the most recent….
                    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23012014/#comment-761727

                    Professor Longhair summed up our friend’s predicament nicely this morning: “This chap is unable to argue his case.”

                    • McFlock

                      “Arse kicking”?

                      That would be the one where you equated calling Snowden an “IT drone” with taking active part in a genocide.

                      You’re in a dreamworld.

                    • Morrissey

                      “Arse kicking”?
                      Humiliation, comeuppance, manhandling, rogering—call it what you will.

                      That would be the one where you equated calling Snowden an “IT drone” with taking active part in a genocide.
                      Not quite right. Again. As you know perfectly well, I placed his (and your) craven, credulous, unquestioning acceptance of the official lies peddled by the Washington/Whitehall axis on a continuum that, in another context, includes the obedient wielding of machetes against designated state “enemies”. Your affectation of outrage at that suggestion lacks credibility; I do not believe that either you or he would have resisted THAT particular government campaign if you had been a couple of obedient and self-deceiving Hutus liable to be killed if you resisted the calls, instead of a couple of obedient and self-deceiving Kiwis under no threat whatsoever.

                      You’re in a dreamworld.
                      I did not dream up your viciousness or your hypocrisy. They are on permanent record, much to your shame.

              • Polish Pride

                “… because commenting here is the only thing I do?”

                and the other things you do are…..?

                • McFlock

                  … in real life.

                  And no, I’m not going to print out my liberal curriculum vitae for you to judge. 1) it’s unique to me, and can therefore identify me; 2) you’ll just say I should sponsor more starving kids or something; a 3) I don’t actually have to justify my existence and my choices to you.

                  Funnily enough, #3 is pretty much what your system would demand I do on a daily basis: both announce and justify my resource uses for the “scientific” system to evaluate and grant or deny.

                  • Polish Pride

                    Not at all McFlock.
                    It would system designed to work for each and every individual. The whole premise behind it is that the goal is to have the system work for Man and to enable him to be happy.
                    An out their example to illustrate the point would be that if there is demand for super yachts, some would be built and put in the harbour for people to book and use.
                    The fact that you can see potential issues and interpret things differently I see as a very good thing because if nothing else you know what you don’t like in a system.
                    If you think more about the things that you do want then this should be fed into how a Resource Based Economy would take shape over time.
                    Afterall I don’t think anyone myself included would like to live in a system where you have to justify your existence in order to get resources. In fact I think it would be vitally important to ensure that this doesn’t happen.
                    This should be a system for the people supported by government and not a system for government to control the people as we have now.

                    • McFlock

                      Afterall I don’t think anyone myself included would like to live in a system where you have to justify your existence in order to get resources.

                      that’s not what I said. I said one would have to justify their request for resources.

                      basically, the problem of resource distribution is one of scarcity. People want more than is being produced, and possibly need more than is being produced. Let’s say there are communal superyachts that can be booked – sooner or later somebody will want a long booking to sail around the world. That booking needs to be balanced against the daytrippers. Who does that balancing? People. So you get at the very least the requirement for a large bureaucracy and planning office that is imbued with great power, and at the worst you get myriad opportunities for corruption. Or if machines do the balancing, you get a problem where the logical solution might not be the humane solution (medical care, for example). So it needs to be overruled by people, and you’re back to corruption.

                      And then you get fashion, where the desire is for off-plan goods, so the system produces those arbitrary things and because of that the goods are passe and the fashion moves to something else.

                      My preference is for a system that provides needs and rights and leaves the rest up to the people theselves to provide.

                    • Polish Pride

                      No justification for the majority of resources just by and large there isn’t now under the current system.
                      If you want enriched uranium or C4 then you’d probably have to justify your request for those resources.

                      Believe it or not I don’t actually think we are too far apart in our thinking.
                      Having the system designed to work for mankind and to serve people means that diversity and creativity is encouraged and the tools made readily available for this to happen.
                      This is certainly not about the system churning out one size fits all products or cars, TVs or whatever.
                      Imagine it more like trademe or amazon where you can order what you want but without having to pay. The premise would be to have very short planning lead times like under Capitalism but without the profit motive or planned obsolescence. You could have design portals or you could go to a designer, engineer or architect who could design what you want and have the system build it. Sustainability would be a key part of the process so design would change fundamentally for many products. New technology comes out for televisions…rather than getting rid of the old one and getting a whole new one you might just order certain inter-changeable parts that are designed to be easily swapped in and out.
                      Scarcity becomes less and less of an issue in fact you will get to the point where (and there will be exceptions) that through good design and encouraging innovation you get to the point where we find sustainable ways to produce nearly everything. At that point Resource Scarcity becomes a thing of the past.

                      The example you have come back with on the Superyacht example is great and is pretty much where I am now with many things. The question is that in knowing what we don’t want, what is the solution that eliminates these issues? That’s the sort of thing that needs to be figured out. But its a bigger discussion that should involve more people. In my experience there is always an acceptable solution to any problem, you just have to find it.

                      “My preference is for a system that provides needs and rights and leaves the rest up to the people themselves to provide.”
                      I agree with this and this is the point I’d want to transition to from where we are today.
                      I would see the system being developed/evolved overtime to serve Mankind more and more with the primary goal to enable man to be happy and over time find solutions that enable more and more to be free from having to work. I don’t expect this to happen in my lifetime but I do see it being possible to change direction so that we are on a path towards it.

                      A key premise behind this is that people should have the right to live their lives by and large how they want to provided they do no harm to others and are mindful of their impact on the environment.

                    • McFlock

                      On the one hand I’m seeing things like the star trek replicators, where you go “give me food” and it will instantly produce a meal. But then with the sustainability thing, you’re talking about folk swapping internal parts of tvs?

                      Frankly, if you can produce goods on an “as desired” basis, you don’t need sustainability. Maybe recycle bins for no longer wanted goods (i.e. you chuck your gen2 TV in one end of the replicator, it gets stripped into component bits, then outputs a gen3 TV), but that would be it.

                      But we’re very very far aways from that (3d printers are promising, but won’t be the elixir of eternal society for a time yet).

            • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 20.1.1.1.1.2

              …er…yeah… Polish Pride, if you really think that you have found the answer to all our problems I strongly recommend finding a way of communicating that more persuasively than “if you don’t agree with me or understand the obscure comments I make you are not ‘ready’ for the brilliant change that I herald”

              That really just sounds like a very egotistical, divisive and vile type of a comment that is going to put people off what you have to offer.

              • McFlock

                The funny thing is that I’m really a big fan of systems-oriented analysis and design. Can’t get enough of it. But one of the problems in recent history is when folks decide they can run society that way.

                • Polish Pride

                  Systems Analysis isn’t designed to run anything and shouldn’t be used to do so.
                  It is however designed to take any system, identify what is failing within it and why. It is then used to determine how the system should work. It is essentially for lack of a better explanation, a diagnostic tool.
                  The key though is to determine the purpose of the system and in this particular case, who the system is for.
                  In my view it is for everyone on the planet.
                  The goal…..happiness
                  The best thing I have found for this is Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs (not the methodology behind but just the contents of his pyramid).
                  Compare Capitalism against this criteria and it becomes easy to see just how pathetically it performs for a large percentage of the worlds population.
                  I have had a lot of fun on Whale oil with this as it is impossible for R wingers to formulate a valid argument against

                  • McFlock

                    Capitalism doesn’t work (agreed), therefore … what?

                    Who runs the system, what acts as a means of exchange or resource measurement, and how is that data collected, collated, analyzed and distributed for further planning and production by the system?

              • Polish Pride

                fair enough. certainly not how I intended to come accross but can see how it would have been taken that way on re-reading it.
                thanks.

                • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                  @ Polish Pride,

                  Thanks for such a decent response, PP. I am very pleased to see you and McFlock have gotten into a more constructive conversation. It is very interesting reading.

                  One thought re the left/right divide – From reading previous comments of yours, it may be that you view the difference between the two ‘sides’ as that of ‘to tax’ or ‘not to tax’ – however a major defining difference for me is not that at all – it is that the left tend to be more ‘people before profits’ focussed whereas the right appear to hold profits as the pivotal thing to aim for (with the belief that as profits rise people issues get addressed).

                  This difference in interpretation may trip you up – because if you put forward the idea that ‘both sides are wrong’ you may be objected to on the grounds that you are saying ‘people before profits’ is wrong – which, having read some of your comments here and elsewhere, does not appear to be what you are suggesting at all.

                  • Polish Pride

                    yes very interesting point. That is definitely not what I am trying to say. I am going further and saying that profit is an unnecessary construct in a system that is for mankind (and it can be proven through systems analysis. In fact the need for profit and money has reached a point where on a number of fronts it is holding society back. Profit can be shown to be the reason for much of the environmental destruction we have in the world along with War, Human trafficking and child pornography. It can be shown to be a big part of the reason that we have an obesity problem in the west while people in some third world countries barely have enough to eat.

                    The fact that you have put it that way is quite good. From spending a lot of time on WO I see a distinct difference between the R wing ideaology of profit before people which drives concepts such as the ‘trickle down effect’ and the right wing voters many of whom have worked hard to get to where they are and just want to pay as little tax as they can resulting in wanting smaller government and to move away from policy that encourages a section of society to become used to living off the state. It doesn’t matter whether their concerns are based in reality or not. It is their belief and as a result they will always vote for National who do pretty much believe in Profit before people. As a result those are the kinds of policies you get whenever National is in power.
                    The Left voters and the Left wing ideaology view of people before profit is pretty much the same message.
                    The problem for both sides is that there is an almost equally opposing amount of voters that will vote for policy that is in direct opposition to what they want.

                    At the risk of oversimplifying it, When Labour gets in and starts to implement policy that is people before profit, they do this using Taxation and redistribution of wealth. (Ignoring the fact that the Right do exactly the same using different mechanisms). This is of course the complete opposite to what the R wing voter wants. Eventually National are voted back in etc. etc.

                    So it is not that either side are wrong (well more accurately it just doesn’t matter) it is the fact that it is impossible for either side to achieve what they want to. At least not under the current system. This is because there is always an equal and opposing force voting against for a party who will implement policy that is the opposite of what they want.
                    Under a different system both can have what they are after. That is if they are prepared to start looking at things a little differently.

                    The thing is the best argument I have had against an RBE type system in 2-3 years of commenting on W/O is ‘show me a country where it is working’ says a lot in my view and makes it on that basis alone worth a closer look.

                    I would love to be proven wrong on my thoughts on this system (I would dearly love to be proven wrong) because at that point I could go back to just living my life and I’d could just ignore politics altogether.

          • Polish Pride 20.1.1.1.2

            then we have to figure out how to satisfy the people who want something other than what your slide-rule says they should want. Because they’ll be the majority.

            Thought I should address this point because its an important one.

            I have no slide rule. Based on the systems analysis the system should be designed to meet the needs and wants of the individual provided no harm is done to others and it is done in the most sustainable manner possible.
            Its about setting up the system to work for mankind rather than the other way around.

            • McFlock 20.1.1.1.2.1

              You really should watch this series: Pandora’s Box, A Fable From the Age of Science.

              Six episodes. From the youtube description “The episodes deal, in order, with communism in The Soviet Union, systems analysis and game theory during the Cold War, economy in the United Kingdom during the 1970s, the insecticide DDT, Kwame Nkrumah’s leadership in Ghana during the 1950s and 1960s and the history of nuclear power”.

              • Polish Pride

                You do know that RBE is a very very different system to Communism. But we are talking about overarching systems so there will be some similarities. There are arguably however more similarities in key areas between Capitalism and Communism than there are between Capitalism and RBE or Communism and RBE.
                Big Government is a good example of this.

                • McFlock

                  Well, actually there doesn’t seem to be that much difference in application, but that wasn’t the point anyway.

                  The point of the entire series was that overly scientific approaches to macro-level issues tend to regard that which cannot be calculated as irrelevant, and that then leads to major problems further down the line, and the end result might or might not be better than the previous situation. Couple that with the realities of people, and unforeseen failures are practically a certainty.

                  • Polish Pride

                    I will watch it (quite interested now)
                    But am interested in who you think the System we live under should be for and even just as importantly what the purpose of the system should be.
                    I have no doubt there will be a number of challenges and issues that arise but like with any system we need to find ways of dealing with them.
                    Although science, technology and automation will solve many problems, I am under no illusion that it will solve them all.

                    Perhaps the fact that I often use RBE as the system to describe what we should have is possibly a little misleading especially for someone who has a better handle than most on what that means (something I’ll keep in mind for the future).
                    I guess that to better illustrate what I am referring to It would be RBE designed to work for you and what you want in a sustainable manner. Anything you as a reasonable individual wouldn’t want to have in there simply shouldn’t be.

                    When you first start looking at this and look at where we are now, it will seem stupidly unrealistic. But as you start to think more about it and how you would like such a system to work for you (and others), it becomes a very clear (more so over time) that the path that we are on currently will not give us the outcomes we want and the reasons why that is.

                    • McFlock

                      The objectives of the system aren’t really in dispute by anyone, from neolibs to communists to folk in between to folk who think they are outside that continuum.

                      Maximise “good” (generally happiness, satisfaction, but can involve other ideals of mental and physical development), minimise “bad”.

                      What you consistently avoid is the detail of how you will achieve that objective. Communism followed “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need”. Capitalism trusts the market to sort out needs and desires. Both fail. How will your resource-based economy be different to communism, and how will it be administered, and how will it avoid the pitfalls of previous systems?

                    • Polish Pride

                      Well we might have had a somewhat rocky start to this conversation. But this is a question I have been putting out in various forms for a long time. You are the first person to give me an answer and a very good one at that so thanks.

                      I will think more about it but off the top of my head my initial thought on how it different to communism. It recognizes and serves the needs and wants of the individual as opposed to everything being geared to be for the good of the state. The state is largely their to ensure that those needs and wants of each individual are served. This is not as difficult as it sounds and by and large this diversity is met under Capitalism. But then because of the monetary system as you will know people profit from more insidious things, war, human trafficking, child pornography etc. etc. Add to that the number of people who don’t even have basic needs met…..
                      I think this focus on and building the system around the needs and wants of people (including catering for their diverse needs and wants is a big part of how it will avoid the pitfalls of both systems.
                      On the how it will be administered. This is where I am at now and what I am trying to work through. Unfortunately it is a much bigger discussion and actually needs input from guys like yourself who can get their head around different concepts very quickly. I can’t get past an ERP system on a massive scale (from my IT background).

                      From a governance point of view I see a robust constitution designed to protect peoples rights and enshrine the goals of the system in legislation.
                      I’d see this backed by a Senate type function and some form of direct democracy (but need to find a way to avoid mob rule). The Senate is in my head pretty much limited to ensuring any legislation adheres to the constitution and may go part way to dealing with the mob rule issue.

                      I can pretty much explain how I’d see any part of our current society working (eg. buying food from supermarkets with self serve checkouts and automatic reordering). But you don’t see what you don’t see just like your reply re super yachts. Its at that point that more minds wanting positive change would be good to solve some of these issues.
                      After all you can only build so many super yachts before the harbor is full. Then you are back to how do you deal with what is essentially a limited resource without reintroducing money and having a solution that is deemed acceptable by the people within the society.

                      One more thing – over time I do see the issue of resource scarcity becoming less and less as future generations become more comfortable with not having to own everything provided it is available to use as and when they need it.

                    • McFlock

                      It recognizes and serves the needs and wants of the individual as opposed to everything being geared to be for the good of the state.

                      That’s what the idea behind commun;sm was: from each according to their ability, to each according to their need. And right up until the end, the planners thought they were handling it.

                      Automated resupply and ordering goods is fine, but the test is not on whether the system can order things. The test is whether the system can supply things as needed, with a lower priority on as wanted. This especially applies to non-universal needs: aircon in warm areas vs down jackets for cold areas, for example.

                      It seems to me that a UBI, for example, would largely take care of the needed part, and the resource allocation would be distributed largely via the private sector rather than using a central system of ordering.

                      If the UBI and distributed planning is a valid iteration of your RBE, I suggest that rather than being a new paradigm your RBE (from a certain point of view) is simply the collective term for both centrally-planned (commun;sm) and distributed-planned (capitalist and anarchist) economies.

                      If the RBE needs to be centrally planned, I’m not sure there is much of a difference between your approach and the dreams of at least the first implementers of the big-C. Which then raises the question of how your plan will avoid the pitfalls that they fell into – power concentrated into the hands of the administrators and subsequently breeding corruption, as well as the lag between current needs and wants of each individual of the population and the ability of the system to fulfill them.

                    • Polish Pride

                      Thats where I probably need greater minds than mine….

                      “If the UBI and distributed planning is a valid iteration of your RBE, I suggest that rather than being a new paradigm your RBE (from a certain point of view) is simply the collective term for both centrally-planned (commun;sm) and distributed-planned (capitalist and anarchist) economies.”

                      I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head as yes UBI would be a valid iteration
                      When I have explained the thinking in the past, I have put it in the most simple way I could think of and explained it as follows:

                      Imagine the system we have now. Imagine your life as it is now. Then remove the money.
                      You still go to the supermarket for food, the gas station for petrol, and so on.

                      It sounds like a ridiculous oversimplification but their is probably some truth in that I am not talking about shifting everything under government.
                      I think that the transition should look to make the move as seamlessly as possible, not recreating existing services but transitioning key industries first with contracts for those who transition that enable things to resort back to the status quo should it fail.
                      example farmers given equipment to automate their farms,
                      Houses built for workers to run the farm
                      Farmer works six months on six months off. Worker Works six months on six months off.
                      If possible everything they want is supplied

                      To help enable this
                      I did envisage construction of manufacturing plants set up to be as automated as possible. Paid for by the companies using it where the selling point initially becomes the elimination of wages altogether. Add to this management and maintenance of the plant in exchange for free product produced from the plant.
                      The thing I find interesting about this is if implemented and up and running how do other countries compete against something that is free.
                      You would probably find that the other countries would be forced to follow suit.
                      Add 3D printing technology into the mix and invest heavily into advancing it and the switch becomes easier and easier.

                      Set up trade agreements with countries we want goods and services from but trade in resources. Our primary industry products in return for electronic goods for example.

                      Sorry am probably rambling a bit.
                      I do agree that UBI would take care of the need and be an easier transition

                      Even if you ignore everything I have said and put it in the maybe one day basket…..
                      The systems analysis can be used to prove Left wing theory and UBI (it also opens the door to the world I am talking about) and it should be used because it is pretty much irrefutable.
                      The only problem is that if it involves increased taxes there is a section of voters that will vote against it and we are back to being stuck in the L vs R paradigm.
                      If a long term plan was put up along side it showing a potential future without taxes where needs and wants are met without taxes, I think you’d also get buy in from many on the Right. But there is a lot that would need to be done before things could get to that point.

                    • McFlock

                      You genuinely think that the transition to a cashless, shortage-less society involves regression to a barter economy?

                      While there are shortages, you need a means of exchange. That’s money. As for asking companies to cooperate in their own demise – that ain’t gonna happen.

                      But the real problem is scarcity – your system works fine as long as there is no scarcity in needs or wants. When do you think that will happen? Timeframe. Because I think it’ll be centuries, if at all. And as soon as you have scarcity, you have people looking to get stuff at the expense of others.

                    • Polish Pride

                      “You genuinely think that the transition to a cashless, shortage-less society involves regression to a barter economy?”

                      We would certainly have that as an option as a means of dealing with countries still using Capitalism that we want products or raw materials from. Its either that or you retain a monetary system for these sorts of dealings and it may be simpler to do that. What ever option we need have something as we will be dealing with countries not ready for a gift economy and they certainly aren’t likely to give us the resources we want for free. I do think that barter to solve this particular problem gives us an opportunity to get more in return for our primary product than we’d get using a monetary system. Besides I reckon that if you have made the decision to transition then there will be much greater risk of your transition failing by retaining a monetary system.

                      “While there are shortages, you need a means of exchange. That’s money. As for asking companies to cooperate in their own demise – that ain’t gonna happen.”
                      But the real problem is scarcity – your system works fine as long as there is no scarcity in needs or wants. When do you think that will happen? Timeframe. Because I think it’ll be centuries, if at all. And as soon as you have scarcity, you have people looking to get stuff at the expense of others.

                      Thats the thing though, What true shortages are you faced with in this day and age. If anything as a society we have massive overproduction and massive waste. But I don’t think we have any true and genuine shortages anymore. If there was it might just mean having a different mechanism for dealing with that particular product (Library type system)… at least until any shortage is resolved.
                      I accept the part about companies but you are not going to lay it out like that for them. You are simply giving them a proposition thats too good to refuse.
                      They supply the raw materials and we will build the product using automated systems. No wages, No cost, No Tax.

                      Small and Medium Business owners would be even easier to transition with the right incentives..

                      As for when I think it will happen – when Gen Y become older and more interested in and active in politics. Thats when I think change will begin.
                      I do think UBI will come first though before then.

    • karol 20.2

      I think you will find the level of misogyny, homophobia, racism, bennie-bashing on the other site – the sleazy smears, etc, differs a lot from this site.

      There are right wingers I’d listen to well before the manipulations of WO.

  21. Brian 21

    Hard to be certain which of them is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

  22. BM 22

    Good o’l whale oil, the way he gets all you lefties leaping up and down tsk tsk tsking,waggling your fingers and getting all pious really makes me laugh.

    It’s like a weasel in a hen house, keep up the good work.

    • Hayden 22.1

      Yeah, I know, it’s almost as if there’s something slightly distasteful about profiting from dead babies and sexual abuse victims.

      • BM 22.1.1

        Not that I’d really care if he was making coin of corpse felching.
        What are the incidents you’re referring to?

        • Hayden 22.1.1.1

          I don’t know about the first one as I don’t read that shit any more (although others apparently do) but for the second one he revealed the name of at least one sexual abuser, and by association his victim.

          • BM 22.1.1.1.1

            Is that the one to do with “The Comedian”.

            • McFlock 22.1.1.1.1.1

              If you already know of a specific case where WO outed a sexual abuse survivor, you don’t need further cases to validate the point.

              Especially in a public forum.

        • Psycho Milt 22.1.1.2

          Not that I’d really care if he was making coin of corpse felching.

          So, if I understand this correctly, in BM-world (not a pleasant-sounding place at all, now I think about it), corpse-felching = no problem, vaguely left-wing politics = moral turpitude. Explains a lot – thanks for sharing.

          • fender 22.1.1.2.1

            BM doesn’t give a shit, he’s too much like Slater to recognise the toxicity that offends any normal person. Having the PM confess to being so cosy with this scum will just be extra encouragement for the warped and toxic throwbacks.

            On the plus side there will be many people concerned that they voted for someone who is so up to his neck in sewerage. Key is mistaken if he thinks that the “most popular blog” is the most admired blog.

            • Ben 22.1.1.2.1.1

              I agree. Key has cunningly managed for 5 years through smiles, BS, bluster and spin, but now he seems to be getting rattled, slipping dramatically in his right wing sewerage slime and being found out slowly and steadily by the general voters.

              • fender

                That video is one of his better displays of the slippery, evasive “would have to check my files” bullshit efforts that confirms he thinks it’s all a game.

    • joe90 22.2

      Yup, good o’l oil, another scalp to add to his everything he touches turns to shit collection.

    • the pigman 22.3

      Laugh it up BM!

      Meanwhile I noticed a “wee shift” in the ipredict market following the revelation today with the probability of there being a National PM after the 2014 election dropping by 5%.

      Clearly your mates aren’t enjoying this filthy relationship being eviscerated in the media for all to see.

  23. Ben 23

    COMMENT OF THE DAY Re KEY and SLATER:

    Iprent : “The good thing about having two arseholes rubbing against each other and you can’t tell where the brown stains came from”

    • bad12 23.1

      It’s actually quite an insightful comment, which of the aresholes leaked the brown over whom first is really the question,

      Slippery the Prime Minister known through-out the land for being stolidly truthful and honest,(yes of course i am taking the piss), or the scum of the internet Blubber boy,

      i pick Slippery to have handed this particular rancid pile of stench to Blubber boy and a number of others to ‘leak’,

      It’s all part of National’s campaign of generating fear and loathing leading up to election 2014, part 1 of this being the Tolley attack on Metiria Turei which failed miserably after the truth of Mets real lifestyle was revealed,

      i also pick that the SIS didn’t tell Slippery directly who DotCom had contact with, when these things are set up a system of intermediaries is established so as to keep the likes of Slippery at arms length,

      my guess is that once armed with the info Slippery or one of the minions from the 9th floor have started the leak to various media and if Slippery is as cozy with Blubber boy as He claims then it would have been He who picked up the phone to tip the blogger of sewerage off…

  24. tricledrown 24

    Key consults with 2x convicted criminal.

  25. irascible 25

    One now asks “Can the dots be connected between Key, Slater, Palino and the Auckland Five in the quest to destroy Len Brown and the Auckland mayoralty?” or is this drawing a long bow in the quest to track the dirty trickery we have senn in NZ politics lately?

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 25.1

      Doesn’t seem like anything is too horrible to assume about this piece-of-shit sham of a government – they are an utter disgrace.

    • McFlock 25.2

      It is an interesting question – key talks with him frequently, there does seem to be a mutual exchange of political information, so what did the convicted slimebag tell the should-be-convicted slimebag about their slime-job?

    • Ben 25.3

      While your assumption is perfectly reasonable and highly likely to be correct, I think the idiot Brown destroyed himself and his reputation by wallowing in filth and filthy carry ons including compromising himself with the crooked corporates..

      • McFlock 25.3.1

        A bit like key’s damaged his reputation by being in cahoots with a sleaze-merchant.

        Even Act had the sense to not let Steve Crow be a member.

        • Ben 25.3.1.1

          I think ACT had an MP who was making money from a brothel. Remember that? She was a female MP. I know prostitution is legal. But still, yuk, for an MP and a political party!

          • McFlock 25.3.1.1.1

            lol nah, she just owned the building and was the model for the billboard (scary eyes…)

            • Ben 25.3.1.1.1.1

              Wonder what her name is,

              They also had other shady discredited characters as MPs, such as Prebble, Douglas, Brash, Garret, Huata and Banks!

          • Psycho Milt 25.3.1.1.2

            I think ACT had an MP who was making money from a brothel. Remember that? She was a female MP. I know prostitution is legal. But still, yuk, for an MP and a political party.

            “Yuk?” As in, “Yuk – what kind of respectable person would allow themselves to be associated with filthy, disgusting, pox-ridden whores?” There’s a ‘yuk’ factor in that alright, I’m just not feeling it for Calvert (well, not in this particular context at least).

            • Colonial Viper 25.3.1.1.2.1

              MPs probably shouldnt make an income from gun running or from prostitutes.

              • It’s no secret that I’m not feeling the love or sexy times for ACT or it’s MPs, but, to be fair, Calvert didn’t actually own the brothel She simply leased the premises to the business. And allowed her eyes to be used for the brothel’s advertising.

                But nothing else. (As far as I’m aware?!).

                I concur with ‘Viper – the corporate arms trade is immoral.

          • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 25.3.1.1.3

            I know prostitution is legal. But still, yuk

            Demonising sexworkers, yep we got ourselves a Colin Craig fan here

  26. mike 26

    yep,who cares if JK talks to a blogger sometimes. The story here is that Winston Last is a lying snake, and just sits around, making shit up like this great “GCSB” conspiracy. HAHAHAHA. Good one Winston, you fucking LOSER. MISSED THE MARK AGAIN! Go swill another sherry, you nasty drunk.

    • McFlock 26.1

      What lie has winston told this time?
      cite pls.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 26.2

      Not at all the way I see things mike
      Sounds and looks like JK is under stress

      Who are you trying to kid?

    • fender 26.3

      “yep, who cares if JK talks to a blogger sometimes.”

      This isn’t just a blogger, this is one of the most despised creeps in the country!

    • Pascal's bookie 26.4

      “The story here is that Winston Last is a lying snake, and just sits around, making shit up like this great “GCSB” conspiracy. HAHAHAHA. Good one Winston, you fucking LOSER. MISSED THE MARK AGAIN! Go swill another sherry, you nasty drunk.”

      That’s pretty harsh language for John Key’s next great hope. Haven;t noticed Key saying he’s reconsidered being opem to dealing with Winston, but given the company Key keeps, I guess it’s not surprising. Can’t recall Winston making jokes about recently dead babies to get hits on a blog.

      • idlegus 26.4.1

        gower on thursday said the next govt was likely to be a nz first/nat govt, was bloody bizarre how he slipped that in.

    • Tracey 26.5

      The wo readers keep bringing up kdc convictions to show how despicable he is. They seem to be oblivious to slater’s

  27. North 27

    Happy Snappy Chappy Mike. You realise of course that at the very best for ShonKey Python, the “fucking LOSER” Winston Peters is the man who OWNS ShonKey Python’s prospects of getting a third term. Suck on that, you nasty punk.

  28. well I never 28

    Oh Mike, you are really embarrassing yourself now mate.

  29. middxkea 29

    Lets all remember Slater photoshopped Helen Clark on to pornographic images
    He also photoshopped a pornographic image on a young labour activist here.
    This was in the days when he and Farrar were as thick as thieves ,Kiwiblog was at it mysoginist worst. and Slaters blog was all guns and porn

    These are the bloggers that the MSM now use and quote.
    And now the PM is associated with.
    I am appalled

  30. jcuknz 30

    Just testing

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    Gordon Campbell | 22-10
  • MIT chaos following job cut announcement
    Chaos reigns at MIT following last week’s announcement that the polytechnic will cut 68 full time equivalent jobs, according to local TEU organiser Chan Dixon. Over a thousand people have signed a petition opposing job cuts at the polytechnic. Staff are...
    Tertiary Education Union | 22-10
  • Auckland staff call for Living Wage
    The Living Wage Network held a rally and barbecue this week calling on the University of Auckland to become first New Zealand’s Living Wage university, by paying all staff, both directly employed and contracted staff, a living wage of $18.80...
    Tertiary Education Union | 22-10
  • Otago debates one off lump sum
    The University of Otago has not offered its staff a pay rise on their rates at collective agreement negotiations, opting instead to offer a one-off lump sum of $1000, which will not go ‘on the rates’. TEU members at the...
    Tertiary Education Union | 22-10
  • Speaker: David Fisher: The OIA arms race
    Good afternoon everyone. I am David Fisher, a reporter with the New Zealand Herald. I have worked as a journalist for 25 years, mainly in New Zealand but across a number of other countries.I think there's some value before I...
    Public Address | 22-10
  • Employment law first act of new government
    As the prime minister promised, his government has rushed to push through its Employment Relations Amendment Bill as one of its very first actions this week. The bill, which union members and workers have actively opposed for the last year,...
    Tertiary Education Union | 22-10
  • 7 inspiring stories of communities taking action for climate
    Stories of communities taking action for the climate and refusing to accept the plans of polluting fossil fuel companies are happening more and more. Here are just a few inspiring climate acts of courage taken by doctors, villagers, students, farmers,...
    Greenpeace NZ blog | 22-10
  • Blowin’ in the wind
    Wind power has a pivotal role to play in the world's energy supply over the next few years. By providing huge amounts of clean, affordable power, it can buy us time in the fight against global warming while revolutions in...
    Greenpeace NZ blog | 22-10
  • Wanted: more fertiliser and horse manure
    Equality enriches the soil, just like manure, but a lot less stinky (For our opening week, we asked all our contributors to think about why they’re On The Left, and what the next three years holds for the left, the...
    On the Left | 22-10
  • PM gets it right about Auckland, mostly
    Prime Minister John Key is dead right when he said: First home buyers in Auckland might have to consider an apartment in order to get onto the property ladder, Prime Minister John Key says. After all, the locational efficiencies of...
    Transport Blog | 22-10
  • John Key’s Multiple Identities
    Question to the Prime MinisterRussel Norman: How many times since November 2008 has he spoken with Cameron Slater on the phone and how many times, if any, has he txted him?Prime Minister: None in my capacity as Prime Minister.John Key...
    Local Bodies | 22-10
  • Where is the Middle?
    When Labour decides who will be the next leader, it is of interest to all of us involved in politics. After all the person chosen could be New Zealand's next Prime Minister. So the debate on the nature of the...
    Pundit | 22-10
  • Labour Needs A Civil Union With The Greens
    Much has been written about where Labour needs to go from here. One issue which doesn’t seem to have generated much interest is what do they do with the Greens?...
    Pundit | 22-10
  • More Latté Than Lager: Reflections on Grant Robertson’s Campaign Lau...
    The People's Flag Is ... Mint Green? Grant Robertson and Jacinda Ardern (whom Twitter immediately dubbed Gracinda) pose in Mint Green for one of the glossy women's magazines. In a non-revolutionary era, superficial is about as deep as it gets. BIKERS?...
    Bowalley Road | 22-10
  • Auckland’s disturbing panopticon
    Earlier in the month, we learned that Auckland was planning to install a creepy panopticon, complete with ANPR and facial recognition, for vague and undefinied purposes. This produced a flurry of OIA requests via FYI, and one of them (for...
    No Right Turn | 22-10
  • How to Sell a House: Free Advice from a couple of experts. (Self-Described!...
      In the 32 years that Judy and I have been together we have bought and sold quite a few houses. Six years is the longest we  lived in any one of those houses.  Our friends regard us as gypsies. The...
    Brian Edwards | 22-10
  • Judith Collins’ two-tier OIA service
    Back in August, we learned that sewerblogger Cameron Slater was receiving extraordinary OIA service from then-Minister of Justice Judith Collins, in one case receiving a response to a request within 37 minutes. But it wasn't just extraordinary for its speed;...
    No Right Turn | 22-10
  • Fluoridation – a racist conspiracy?
    Political activists campaigning on health issues often resort to scaremongering. This can be dangerous – especially when their stories have no real basis but rely on selective and distorted information. Paul Connett’s Fluoride Action Network (FAN) often resorts to this sort of scaremongering. Now...
    Open Parachute | 22-10
  • What have people in Africa been doing since the Ebola outbreak started?
    by Andy Warren In a word – dying.  But not from Ebola. According to WHO data it looks like this: However, fear and anxiety are the sexiest ingredients of any story today – rather than boring facts. Ebola fits perfectly...
    Redline | 22-10
  • What have people in Africa been doing since the Ebola outbreak started?
    by Andy Warren In a word – dying.  But not from Ebola. According to WHO data it looks like this: However, fear and anxiety are the sexiest ingredients of any story today – rather than boring facts. Ebola fits perfectly...
    Redline | 22-10
  • Unbelieveable
    This week we've seen the Prime Minister desperately trying to cover up his war plans by pretending that Obama's war-planning meeting was just a "regular" meeting of defence partners which we just happened to be attending. Over on Kiwipolitico Pablo...
    No Right Turn | 22-10
  • Are the police using ANPR to target the disabled?
    The media this morning is full of stories of the paralysed man caught driving using a walking stick to reach the pedals. Its good that he's off the road, but there's one point in the story which raises questions:The driver...
    No Right Turn | 22-10
  • Like a cult…
    When a party loses badly, the public expects a bit of sorrowful wailing and beating of breasts. To say “This is what we did wrong, and this is how we’ll fix it” is an important part of restoring trust with...
    Occasionally erudite | 21-10
  • How low can you go? Mining the depths
    The company says there will be economic benefits, which the EEZ Act says the EPA must consider, but even these benefits are in doubt. The royalties while not set will be tiny, the profits will flow offshore, and whatever phosphate...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Fed Farmers defend GE Agriculture
    Federated Farmers, which represents a minority of farmers, appears to be captured by a pro-GE clique hell bent on increasing unsustainable technologies for the benefit of the herbicide and patent controlling seed companies. That there are better more sustainable farming...
    Greens | 23-10
  • Government loses the affordable housing race
    Nick Smith is dreaming if he thinks he can deliver affordable housing to Cantabrians on his current figures, says Labour’s Associate Housing spokesperson Poto Williams. “The Minister’s announcement that the Government will build 237 new homes, most of which will...
    Labour | 23-10
  • Labour’s thoughts with Canadians
    Labour has offered its sympathies to the family and friends of the Canadian soldier who died in what appears to be a premeditated and unprovoked attack while standing at guard at the Ottawa National War Memorial. “Our thoughts are also...
    Labour | 23-10
  • What next for TVNZ? Outsourcing the news?
    Television New Zealand’s decision to outsource Māori and Pacific programming is a real blow to the notion that our state broadcaster is a public broadcaster, says Labour. “CEO Kevin Kenrick has said today that TVNZ has ‘a very long and...
    Labour | 22-10
  • Green Party expresses sympathy for Canadian shooting victims
    The Green Party expressed its solidarity with Canadians and the Canadian Parliament today, offering its sympathy for family and friends of the soldier killed in the attack. "Our thoughts are with all those caught up in the shooting in Canada...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Prime Minister must honour his promise
    It’s time for John Key to honour his promise to the Pike River families, says Labour MP Damien O’Connor.  “International mine experts have confirmed the view of WorkSafe New Zealand and many miners on the West Coast that it is...
    Labour | 22-10
  • EPA finds Shell Oil illegally drilled two wells
    The Environmental Protection Authority (EPA) has concluded that Shell Todd Oil Services (STOS) broke the law by drilling two wells without a marine consent off the coast of Taranaki, the Green Party said today. The EPA conducted an inspection of...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Soaring rail use in Auckland shows need for rail link now
    News that Aucklanders overtook Wellingtonians as the biggest train users is further evidence the Government needs to start work on the Auckland City Rail Link now, the Green Party said today.Auckland Transport said today that in the year to September,...
    Greens | 22-10
  • Tea breaks gone by lunch time
    Labour is calling for an eleventh hour reprieve to employment law changes which could see thousands of Kiwi workers not covered by collective agreements lose their smoko breaks, its spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says.“How cynical that on the...
    Labour | 21-10
  • Metiria Turei to lead fight on feeding hungry children
    Green Party Co-leader Metiria Turei is urging all political parties to support the Feed the Kids Bill which she inherited today from Mana leader Hone Harawira.Mrs Turei, who leads the Green Party's work on child poverty, will pick up Mr...
    Greens | 21-10
  • Otago dairy farms fail basics
    I’m really privileged to take on the responsibility of the water portfolio. Eugenie Sage has done excellent work in this area in the last term of parliament and provided a great platform for further work. Last Parliament my bill to...
    Greens | 21-10
  • A mighty totara has fallen across the Tasman
    The New Zealand Labour Party expresses deep sadness at the death of former Australian prime minister Gough Whitlam, aged 98. “Today a great totara has fallen across the Tasman,” Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says....
    Labour | 21-10
  • Note to National: Must deliver on child poverty
    John Key and his Government will be held to its promise to make child poverty a priority, Labour’s Acting Deputy Leader Annette King says. “In its priority-setting speech today the Government stated child poverty would be a major focus for...
    Labour | 21-10
  • New Analysis show Government cut tertiary education funding
    New analysis done by the Green Party today shows the Government has made cuts to funding of tertiary education since 2008.Figures compiled by the Parliamentary Library show that between 2009 and 2015 Government funding to Tertiary Institutions dropped by 4...
    Greens | 21-10
  • Students doing it tough as fees rise again
    The Government is making it increasingly difficult for Kiwis to gain tertiary education as fees continue to rise and access to student support becomes even more restricted, Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Steven Joyce is shutting a generation...
    Labour | 20-10
  • Key misled New Zealand on Iraq deployment
      John Key was misleading New Zealanders prior to the election when he ruled out New Zealand special forces being deployed to Iraq, says Labour Defence Spokesperson Phil Goff.  “Post-election he has cynically disregarded that by saying that deployment of...
    Labour | 20-10
  • Swearing about swearing the oath
    Yesterday, I was swearing. Swearing the Parliamentary oath, that is. But, under my breath, I was also quietly swearing about the archaic, colonial form of that oath and its inappropriateness for today’s Aotearoa New Zealand. To be permitted to speak...
    Greens | 20-10
  • Damning report on Ruataniwha dam numbers
    When I presented my submission to the Board of Inquiry on the Tukituki Catchment Proposal I compared the proposed 83 metre high Ruataniwha dam with the Clyde Dam and noted the risk of cost blowouts in the construction process.  The...
    Greens | 20-10
  • Church congratulated on child poverty stand
    The efforts by the bishops of the Anglican Church to ensure that the issue of child poverty is not forgotten is a call to all New Zealanders to take action, says Labour’s Interfaith-Dialogue Spokesperson, Su’a William Sio.   “I think...
    Labour | 19-10
  • Labour names Review Team
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has appointed Bryan Gould as Convenor of its post-General Election Review.  He will be joined on the Review Team by Hon Margaret Wilson, Stacey Morrison and Brian Corban (see further biographical details here). The Review Team...
    Labour | 19-10
  • Labour backs urban development plans
    Auckland Council’s plan to set up an urban development agency is to be applauded and central government should get behind it to make it a success, Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford says. Auckland Council CEO Stephen Town has indicated plans...
    Labour | 18-10
  • New Zealand can be rightly proud of seat on Security Council
    Gaining a seat on the United Nation’s Security Council shows the sort of standing that New Zealand has in the world and the quality of the long campaign that we ran over nearly a decade, says Foreign Affairs spokesperson David...
    Labour | 16-10
  • NZ has opportunity on UN Security Council
    New Zealand has an opportunity to make a major contribution to the strengthening of international law and institutional capacity through its upcoming two-year tenure on the United Nations Security Council, Green Party spokesperson on global affairs, Dr Kennedy Graham said...
    Greens | 16-10
  • MPI still dragging the chain over causes of food bug
    The Ministry of Primary Industries’ release of Environmental Science and Research’s initial reports regarding the sources of a nasty stomach bug will be little comfort to the 127 people affected by it, Labour’s Food Safety spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “This...
    Labour | 16-10
  • Treasury officials should try working without food
    The Green Party is challenging Treasury officials to work for a week without eating properly, in light of their advice to Government that a food in schools programme is not needed."Treasury's advice was that providing food for children in schools...
    Greens | 15-10
  • Councils need to better protect our drinking water
    Environment Canterbury (ECan) is proposing several variations to its regional land and water plan that will allow for increased nutrient and other pollution from irrigation and intensive agriculture on the Canterbury Plains. Commissioners are hearing submissions on Variation 1 to...
    Greens | 15-10
  • National needs to commit to making NZ workers safe
    The National Government must do more to help make New Zealand workplaces a safer place to work in, Green Party industrial relations spokesperson Denise Roche said today.Data released by Statistics New Zealand today showed that workers in the fishing and...
    Greens | 15-10
  • Key commits to deployment before consultation or analysis
    John Key’s offer to consult Opposition parties on whether to deploy New Zealand forces against ISIS looks increasingly like a PR exercise only, says Labour’s Defence spokesperson, Phil Goff. “The presence of New Zealand’s Chief of Defence Force at a...
    Labour | 15-10
  • National must end ideological opposition to raising income
    If John Key is serious about tackling child poverty he must approach it with an open mind, and overcome his ideological block to raising incomes as a solution, the Green Party said today.Papers released to Radio New Zealand today show...
    Greens | 14-10
  • Pentagon links climate change and terrorism
    Yesterday the Pentagon launched a plan to deal with a threat that “poses immediate risks to national security”; one that “will affect the Department of Defense’s ability to defend the nation”. It wasn’t referring to Ebola or ISIS. It was...
    Greens | 14-10
  • Four Nominees for Labour’s Leadership
    As at 5pm today four valid nominations had been received for the position of Labour Leader, as follows: Andrew Little(nominated by Poto Williams and Iain Lees-Galloway) Nanaia Mahuta(nominated by Louisa Wall and Su’a William Sio) David Parker(nominated by Damien O’Connor...
    Labour | 14-10
  • Green Party calls for consultation over terrorism law changes
    The Green Party has today written to the Prime Minister asking him to engage in wider consultation prior to changing any laws as a result of the recently announced terrorism law reviews, said the Green Party today. In a letter...
    Greens | 14-10
  • MPI must name product and supermarket chain
    The Ministry of Primary Industries must name the product responsible for severe gastroenteritis affecting people around the country, and the supermarket chain distributing it, Labour’s Food Safety spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “The Ministry seems to be more concerned about protecting...
    Labour | 13-10
  • John Key dishonest about reasons for wanting to change terrorism law
    John Key is misleading the public to push through terrorism law changes under urgency, the Green Party said today. On Sunday, John Key stated that it is not illegal for someone to fight overseas for a terrorist group, such as...
    Greens | 12-10
  • Law changes shaping up to be worse than first thought
    The Prime Minister needs to be up front about exactly what changes he is planning to make to the Employment Relations  Amendment Bill, Labour's spokesperson on Labour Issues Andrew Little says.Interviewed on Q&A yesterday John Key said he did not...
    Labour | 12-10
  • Rapists, not Tinder, the threat to women
    Blame for rape and sexual assault should only ever be laid at the door of the perpetrator, not dating services or the actions of women themselves, Labour’s Associate Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. “Tinder is not the problem and women...
    Labour | 09-10
  • Safer Journeys For People Who Cycle
    You have a rare opportunity to tell the people who are making the decisions on cycling how to make it better. The Cycling Safety Panel is seeking feedback on their draft recommendations for improving the safety of cycling in New...
    Greens | 08-10
  • Subsidising more pollution will undermine water clean-up plan at Te Waihora...
    In 2010, NIWA found Canterbury’s Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere had the worst nutrient status of 140 lakes around New Zealand that it measured. In 2011, the National Government committed to spending $15 million across the country through the Fresh Start for...
    Greens | 08-10
  • Adding value not herbicides
    The HT swedes, and other brassicas, might seem like a good idea to farmers struggling against weeds but like the GE road, is this the path we want our agriculture to be treading? The Federated Farmers President, Dr William Rolleston...
    Greens | 07-10
  • ‘Blame the Planner’ bizarre approach to child poverty
    The National Government is stooping to a bizarre new low in blaming "planning processes" for poverty and inequality, after spending six years doing nothing about either the housing market or child poverty, the Green Party said today. Finance Minister Bill...
    Greens | 07-10
  • Media Advisory
    MANA Leader, Hone Harawira will not be available to speak with media today regarding his release “Recount Just One Step To restoring Credibility”. He is however available for media comment tomorrow, Tuesday the 8th of October, all media arrangements are...
    Mana | 07-10
  • RECOUNT JUST ONE STEP TO RESTORING CREDIBILITY
    “I have applied for a judicial recount of the votes in the Tai Tokerau election because it is one step in trying to restore credibility to the electoral process in the north, and, I suspect, in all other Maori electorates...
    Mana | 07-10
  • MANA SEEKS TAI TOKERAU RECOUNT
    The MANA Movement is supporting Leader Hone Harawira’s application for a judicial re-count in the Te Tai Tokerau electorate for the 2014 general election. President Lisa McNab says there are a number of serious issues of concern regarding the ability...
    Mana | 07-10
  • MANA to fight mass privatisation of state housing
    Announcements over the past 12 hours from the Minister responsible for Housing New Zealand, Bill English, and Minister for Social Housing, Paula Bennett, make clear the government’s intention for the mass privatisation of state housing. This comes during the middle...
    Mana | 07-10
  • Journalists have right to protect sources
    Legal authorities must respect the right of journalist Nicky Hager to protect the source of his material for his Dirty Politics book under Section 68 of the Evidence Act, Acting Labour Leader David Parker says. “It is crucial in an...
    Labour | 06-10
  • It shouldn’t take the Army to house the homeless
    National’s move to speed up its state house sell-off shows it is bankrupt of new ideas, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “National has been in office for six years, yet the housing crisis has got worse every month and...
    Labour | 06-10
  • Government must lift social housing supply, not shuffle the deck chairs
    National's decision to shift the state provision of housing to third parties is a smokescreen for the Government decreasing the provision of affordable housing, the Green Party said today."What National should be doing is increasing the supply of both social...
    Greens | 06-10
  • Election 2014 – the final count
    While we have to wait for the final booth level counts we can now see how well we did in the specials and look at electorate level data. First off special votes (and disallowed/recounted votes etc). There was a change...
    Greens | 06-10
  • We need more houses, not Ministers
    The Government’s decision to have three housing Ministers will create a dog’s breakfast of the portfolio and doesn’t bode well for fixing the country’s housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New Zealanders need more houses, not more Ministers....
    Labour | 05-10
  • Review: Perfect Place
    I went to a Perfect Place on Tuesday night, and what a delight it was. The marshmallows sweetly (and forcefully) handed out pre-show, set the tone for the next hour. Walking up the stairs at The Basement was a complete...
    The Daily Blog | 23-10
  • 5AA Australia – NZ on UN Security Council + Dirty Politics Lingers On
    5AA Australia: Selwyn Manning and Peter Godfrey deliver their weekly bulletin Across The Ditch. General round up of over night talkback issues: Thongs, Jandals and flip-flops… ISSUE 1: New Zealand has been successful in its campaign to become a non...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • When I mean me, I mean my office & when I call whaleoil I mean not as m...
    This. Is. Ludicrous. Green Party co-leader Russel Norman put the first of what are likely to be many questions about Mr Key’s relationship with Slater, asking him how many times he had phoned or texted the blogger since 2008. “None...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • A brief word on describing the Government as ‘boring and bland’
    The narrative being sown is that this Government will be a boring and bland third term. Boring and bland. Since the election, Key has announced he is privatising 30% of state houses without reinvesting any of that money back into housing society’s most...
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • More Latté Than Lager: Reflections on Grant Robertson’s Campaign Launch.
    BIKERS? SERIOUSLY! Had Grant Robertson’s campaign launch been organised by Phil Goff? Was this a pitch for the votes of what few Waitakere Men remain in the Labour Party? Was I even at the right place? Well, yes, I was....
    The Daily Blog | 22-10
  • About Curwen Ares Rolinson
    Curwen Ares Rolinson – Curwen Ares Rolinson is a firebrand young nationalist presently engaged in acts of political resistance deep behind enemy lines amidst the leafy boughs of Epsom. He is affiliated with the New Zealand First Party; although his...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kelly Ellis
    Kelly Ellis.Kelly Ellis – As a child, Kelly Ellis didn’t so much fall into the cracks, but willfully wriggled her way into them. Ejected from Onslow College – a big job in the 70s – Kelly worked in car factories,...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • About Kate Davis
    Kate Davis.Kate Davis – Having completed her BA in English and Politics, Kate is now starting her MA. Kate works as a volunteer advocate at Auckland Action Against Poverty and previously worked for the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective. Kate writes...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Parker does a Shearer – oh for a Labour Leader who can challenge msm fals...
    Sigh. It seems David Parker has done a Shearer… Like a cult and too red – Parker on LabourLabour leadership contender David Parker says Labour borders on feeling like “a cult” and must look at its branding – including its...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • A brief word on the hundreds of millions NZ is spending on the secret intel...
    The enormity of the mass surveillance state NZ Government’s have built carries a huge price tag… Kiwis pay $103m ‘membership fee’ for spyingThe $103 million taxpayer funding of New Zealand’s intelligence agencies is effectively a membership fee for joining the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Where. Is. Jason. Ede?
    Where. Is. Jason. Ede?...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Labour’s Din of Inequity
    Watching Labour’s leadership candidates on Q+A on Sunday, I noticed the ongoing use of terms like “opportunity” and “aspiration”, and “party of the workers”. What do these mean? We glean much from Labour, and from the media about Labour, but not...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • “Blue-Greenwash” fails the test when it comes to endangered dolphins
    National’s pre-election promises saw some wins for the environment – perhaps as the party sought to appease its “Blue-Green” voters and broaden its popular appeal. Some of the ecological gains were a long time in the making, overdue even– such...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • Reasons not to be cheerful, Part #272b
    Why don’t you get back into bed? The next few years — the rest of this century — are not going to be pretty. There is an obvious disconnect between any remaining political ambition to fix climate change and the...
    The Daily Blog | 21-10
  • OIA protocols and official advice ignored to hide Child Poverty
    It might not seem so now, but child poverty was a major election issue. What a pity we did not have the full debate. In that debate it would have been very helpful to have seen the Ministry of Social...
    The Daily Blog | 20-10
  • Previewing the 4 candidates for Leader of the Labour Party
    The extraordinary outbursts by Shearer last week highlights just how toxic that Caucus is. Shearer was on every major media platform as the ABC attack dog tearing into Cunliffe in the hope of diminishing Cunliffe’s support of Little by tearing...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – the sudden explosion of ‘left’ blogs
    Time to Teach or more people will suffer from P.A.I.D. Political And Intellectual Dysmorphia.I was on the Twitter and a guy followed me so of course I did the polite thing and followed him back. He wrote a blog so...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Ego vs Eco
    Ego vs Eco...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • We can’t let the Roastbuster case slip away
    Those of us (like me) left with hope that the police would aggressively follow through on the large amount of evidence on offer to them (let’s not forget they forgot they even had some at one point) in the Roastbusters...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Food, shelter and medicine instead of bombs and bullets
    The on-going conflict across the Middle East – due in large part to the US-led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq – has created another humanitarian crisis of biblical proportion. The essentials of life are desperately needed in Iraq and Syria...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • The politics of electorate accommodations
    National’s electorate accommodations with ACT and United Future were a big factor in it winning re-election. Interestingly, there is another electorate accommodation scenario whereby the centre-left could have come out on top, even with the same distribution of party votes....
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Why you should join the TPPA Action on 8 November
    On 8 November 2014, thousands of Kiwis will take part in the International Day of Action to protest the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA). The rally cry for us is TPPA – Corporate Trap, Kiwis Fight Back. Why should you join...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • GUEST BLOG – Patrick O’Dea: no new coal mines
    Green Party and Mana Party policy is “NO NEW COAL MINES!” Auckland Coal Action is trying to put this policy into action on the ground. ACA after a hard fought two year campaign waged alongside local residents and Iwi, in...
    The Daily Blog | 19-10
  • Comparing Police action – Hager raid vs Roast Buster case
    This satire had the NZ Police contact TDB and threaten us with 6months in prison for using their logo.   The plight of Nicky Hager and the draconian Police actions against him has generated over  $53 000 in donations so...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Malala Yousafzai, White Saviour Complexes and Local Resistance
    Last week, Malala Yousafzai was the co-recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. Since her exposure to the worldwide spotlight, her spirit, wisdom and strength have touched the hearts of people everywhere. However, there have been cynics who have argued that...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • Jason Ede is back – but no media can interview him?
    Well, well, well. Jason Ede, the main figure connected to John Key’s office and the Dirty Politics black ops is back with a company with deep ties to the National Party. One thing you can say about the right –...
    The Daily Blog | 18-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – Leadership Transitions In Other Parties: A ...
    As cannot have escaped anyone’s attention by now, the country is presently in the grips of an election and campaign that will help determine the fate of the nation for years to come. It’s gripping stuff – with clear divides...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • SkyCity worker says she faces losing her house
    SkyCity worker Carolyn Alpine told the company annual shareholder’s meeting today that she faced the prospect of losing her house because the company had cut her shifts from two a week to one without consultation. The solo mother, has worked...
    The Daily Blog | 17-10
  • Greg O’Connor’s latest push to arm cops & 5 reasons not to
    I was wondering at what point within a 3rd term of National that Police Cheerleader Greg O’Connor would start trying to demand cops be armed. O’Connor must have thought to himself, ‘if bloody Key can get us and the GCSB vast new...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • You can’t have crisis without ISIS
    So the new scary bogeyman ISIS might have chemical weapons that the US secretly found in Iraq, but America didn’t want to expose this find because the WMDs were actually built and made by the US and Europe, the two powers...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • NZ WINS UN SPIN THE BOTTLE! Privately sucking up to America for a decade me...
    Oh, we are loved! Little old NZ, the 53rd state of America after Israel and Australia, gets to sit at the adults table for the special dinner party that is the UN Security Council. How delightful, a decade of privately...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • MEDIA BLOG – Myles Thomas – A World Without Advertising
    Non-commercial broadcasting and media. It’s a solution for all manner of problems ailing our tender nation… voter engagement, unaccountable governance, apathy, stupefaction, public education, science in schools, arts appreciation, cultural cringe… But no-one could’ve guessed that non-commercial media might solve...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October
    March against war – 2pm Saturday 25th October...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • Whack a mole as US govt foreign policy
    Whack-A-Mole was a popular arcade game from my youth.  It consisted of a waist high cabinet with holes in the top. Plastic moles seemingly randomly pop out of these holes. The purpose of the game was to hit as many...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • In Paean of Debt
    This week is ‘Money Week’. It’s an opportunity to promote to the middle classes, and anyone else who will listen, the virtues of wise ‘investment’. The aims are to promote the mystical (and indeed mythical) virtues of saving for the...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • The last 48 hours – Poverty denial, war denial and unapologetic abuse of ...
    The bewildering speed of events that simply end in Key shrugging and proclaiming he doesn’t really give a shit is coming think and fast as the Government suddenly appreciate the full spectrum dominance they now enjoy. Here is Radio NZ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – Mana 2.0 Rebooted
    Internationally the news is that Evo Morales of Bolivia won big with Left Wing policies But what are the chances that the Left will make a resurgence in this country? As the internecine struggles between the Left and the Right...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • The Blomfield IPCA letter – Has Dirty Politics leaked into the NZ Police ...
    It’s difficult to know what to make of the IPCA letter to Matthew Blomfield over Slater’s continued insistence that the hard drive taken from Matthew wasn’t stolen.  Slater has selectively cherry picked the Police referring back to his claim that Blomfeild perjured...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • ​Media release: Rail and Maritime Transport Union – Auckland move for K...
    The Rail and Maritime Transport Union is questioning a KiwiRail proposal to progressively relocate its Zero Harm personnel from Wellington to Auckland. “The purpose of the Zero Harm team is to drive KiwiRail’s performance in health and safety.  Rail is a...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Amnesty International – Friend request from an IS militant
    There’s always that one person, that one Facebook friend, usually a musician or event promoter, who, when you so foolishly accept their friend request, will completely inundate your news feed with copious event invitations and promotions. The person who, despite...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • NZ should follow the UK and recognize the Palestinian state
    Over the past two weeks, the United Kingdom and Sweden have made headlines through their decisions to recognize the state of Palestine. They are hardly the first nations to do so. Indeed, 134 countries have, in various ways, given formal...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • The Discordant Chimes of Freedom: Why Labour has yet to be forgiven.
    WHY DOES THE ELECTORATE routinely punish Labour and the Greens for their alleged “political correctness” but not National? It just doesn’t seem fair. Consider, for example, the Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Act 2007 – the so-called “anti-smacking legislation” –...
    The Daily Blog | 15-10
  • Hosking or Henry – Which right wing crypto fascist clown do you want to w...
    So Mediaworks are finally going to make some actual money from their eye watering contract with Paul Henry by launching a new multi-platform Breakfast show over TV, Radio and internet. This is great news for Campbell Live who have dodged...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Families need more money to reduce child poverty
    Prime Minister John Key is mistaken to rule out extending the In Work Tax Credit to all poor children (The Nation 11th Oct) and Child Poverty Action Group challenges government advisors to come up with a more cost effective way...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – Don’t shit on my dream
    Once were dreamers. A large man, walks down the road and, even from 200 yards there’s light showing between his big arms and bigger body. It’s as if he’s put tennis balls under his arms. Two parking wardens walk out...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Labour and ‘special interests’
    The media narrative of Labour is that it is unpopular because it’s controlled by ‘special interests’. This ‘special interests’ garbage is code for gays, Maoris, wimin and unionists. We should show that argument the contempt it deserves. The next Labour...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Ru...
    . . Continued from: Housing; broken promises, families in cars, and ideological idiocy (Part Tahi) . National’s housing development project: ‘Gateway’ to confusion . Perhaps nothing better illustrates National’s lack of a coherent housing programme than the ‘circus’ that is...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • Here’s what WINZ are patronisingly saying to people on welfare when they ...
    Yesterday, a case manager from WINZ called to tell me that I needed to “imagine what I would do if I did not have welfare”. I replied “Well, I guess if I couldn’t live at home, I would be homeless.”...
    The Daily Blog | 14-10
  • David Shearer’s ‘no feminist chicks’ mentality highlights all that is...
    Mr Nasty pays a visit Shearer’s extraordinary outburst last night on NZs favourite redneck TV, The Paul Henry Show, is a reminder of all that is wrong within the Labour Caucus right now… He said the current calls for a female or...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • Greenpeace 1 – Shell 0
    Greenpeace 1 – Shell 0...
    The Daily Blog | 13-10
  • Unanimously Call for Commissioner to Arm Police Full Time
    In the wake of a series of recent armed offender incidents, delegates to the Police Association Annual Conference today called unanimously on the Commissioner to arm Police full time....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Bank gets behind NZ wildlife icon with sizable donation
    It will be easier than ever this summer for holiday-markers to dip into their pockets to support the yellow-eyed penguin....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • WorkSafe report raises concerns about asbestos
    The union representing construction workers in the Canterbury rebuild is surprised at WorkSafe’s conclusion that no action needs to be taken against EQC and Fletcher EQR over asbestos exposure in Canterbury homes. “This report was an opportunity...
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Union accuses SkyCity CEO of misleading public
    Unite Union has accused SkyCity CEO Nigel Morrison of misleading the public over the cut in hours for a staff member who raised the issue at the company's AGM....
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Last Hurrah on the Taxpayer
    Responding to the NZ Herald report that Hone Harawira spent up $54,000 on the taxpayer in his last three months as an MP, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “It is absolutely disgraceful that an MP managed to rack...
    Scoop politics | 23-10
  • Press statement in relation to search of Nicky Hager’s home
    On 2 October 2014, Nicky Hager's home in Wellington was searched by police. Mr Hager asserted that documents kept at his house were protected by privilege, including because they contained information that might identify confidential sources....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • The Sam Simon arrives into Auckland for new campaign
    This morning Sea Shepherd ship, the Sam Simon, arrived into Auckland harbour after its journey from Melbourne. The ship and its 25 crew from around the globe have come to New Zealand to source supplies and prepare for the upcoming...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Low inflation – time for meaningful wage increases
    With inflation low, now is a good time for workers to negotiate for pay increases that outstrip price rises and deliver real increases in wages and salaries. “For too many people, real pay increases have been missing for several years...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Auckland Rates Rises Out of Control
    Responding to the NZ Herald report that Auckland ratepayers will face an average of a 29 percent rates increase, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says: “These rate rises show that Len Brown's spending is out of control.”...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Protest at New Plymouth Oil and Gas Expo
    About 30 protesters from Climate Justice Taranaki, Frack-free Kapiti, Te Uru Pounamu Action Group, Oil Free Wellington, Frack-free Manawatu and the east coast protested yesterday outside New Plymouth's biennial Oil and Gas Expo at the TSB Stadium....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • FMA warns consumers about cold-calling investment offers
    The Financial Markets Authority (FMA) is warning New Zealand consumers and investors to be wary of cold-calls asking them to buy shares or put their money into offshore firms....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Comprehensive plan needed to end child poverty
    Child Poverty Action Group says it is vital the newly re-elected National government takes a planned and comprehensive approach to reducing child poverty in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Metiria Gets Feed the Kids
    Yesterday the Speaker of the House advised that he had accepted my request to transfer my Feed the Kids (Education (Breakfast and Lunch Programmes in Schools) Amendment) Bill to Metiria Turei of the Green Party....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • DIA undercover investigation leads to jailing
    An undercover Internal Affairs investigation has led to a Hastings man being jailed for three and half years....
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of Balibo Five
    Media Information: Call on Minister McCully to pursue the case of journalist Gary Cunningham and the Balibo Five...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Australia and NZ actions on press freedoms alarming
    Global support for investigative journalism in Australia and New Zealand is a welcome response to law changes and a police raid, says the Pacific Freedom Forum...
    Scoop politics | 22-10
  • Call for release of French journalists in West Papua
    West Papua Action Auckland, the EPMU Print and Media Council and the NZ Media Freedom Network call on the Minister of Foreign Affairs to speak out in support of the two French TV journalists whose trial has just begun in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Court of Appeal: Dotcom v 20th Century Fox Film Corporation
    A The appeal is dismissed. B The 20 August 2014 order of the High Court dealing with confidentiality and the 29 August 2014 order of this Court dealing with confidentiality are set aside. C The confidentiality orders set out in...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Glassons Blasted For Glamourising Animal Cruelty
    Clothing brand Glassons have found themselves embroiled in another controversy after launching a new advert featuring a girl riding a bull. Animal advocacy organisation SAFE have asked them to remove the ad immediately as it glamourises animal cruelty....
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet
    Smuggling honey into New Zealand isn’t sweet Federated Farmers Bee Industry Group applauds the tough line taken by Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) Border Staff at Auckland Airport. In deporting the couple found trying to smuggle bee products...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Taxpayers’ Union Responds to Joyce on Corporate Welfare
    Responding to Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce’s defence of corporate welfare , Jim Rose, the author of Monopoly Money , a Taxpayers Union report on corporate welfare since 2008, says:...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech from the Throne brings welcome focus on children
    Today’s speech from the Throne confirms the Government’s focus on children, youth and their families in the areas of health, education, youth employment, poverty alleviation and Whānau Ora; now the challenge is to ensure every child in New Zealand...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • John’s Job Fairs no fix for unemployment and poverty
    “John Key has clearly been looking to the US for his latest bright idea on dealing with employment issues,” says Auckland Action Against Poverty coordinator Sue Bradford. “Job fairs where the desperately unemployed queue in their corporate best to compete...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Speech From the Throne Foreshadows More Corporate Welfare
    Responding to the Governor General’s Speech from the Throne, which outlined that the Government’s intentions for the next Parliamentary term would include further Business Growth Agenda initiatives, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan...
    Scoop politics | 21-10
  • Green MP to speak at panel on Rainbow Mental Health
    Hamilton, New Zealand: Recently re-elected Green Party MP Jan Logie will be a guest speaker at a panel on the mental health of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Trangender, Takataapui and Intersex people taking place on November 1st as part of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Evidence Supports GE Moratorium
    Federated Farmers spokesman Graham Smith's call for a 'rethink' on release of GeneticallyEngineered organisms is misguided, and instead it is time for a formal moratorium on GMOs in the environment.(1)...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Chatham Rise mining could have impact on whales and dolphins
    Wellington, 21 October 2014--Mining phosphate on the Chatham Rise, off the east coast of New Zealand’s south island, could potentially have many impacts on marine mammals like whales and dolphins, the Environmental Protection Agency was told today....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Council endorses Nanaia Mahuta as the next Labour leader
    Te Kaunihera Māori, the Māori Council of the New Zealand Labour Party, have passed a resolution to endorse the Hon Nanaia Mahuta as the next leader of the Labour Party...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Kaumatua to organise petition to end Maori seats
    Ngapuhi kaumatua David Rankin has announced that he will be organising a nationwide petition to seek support from Maori voters to end the Maori seats. “These seats are patronising”, he says. “They imply we need a special status, and that...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Announcing a New Voice for The Left
    Josh Forman is pleased to announce the creation of a new force on the Left of politics in New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Public services held back by poor workplace culture
    A new report by Victoria University’s Centre for Labour, Employment and Work shows that public servants are working significant unpaid overtime to ensure the public services New Zealanders value are able to continue....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • iPredict New Zealand Weekly Economic & Political Update
    Andrew Little’s probability of being the next leader of the Labour Party has reached 70% and Jacinda Ardern is favourite to become his deputy, according to the combined wisdom of the 8000+ registered traders on New Zealand’s predictions market, iPredict....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Prison Drug Treatment Unit marks a milestone
    Christchurch Men’s Prison’s Drug Treatment Unit (DTU) celebrated the completion of its 50th six month Drug and Alcohol Programme today, with the graduation of a further twelve offenders....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Security Council seat a chance for NZ to empower women
    The UN Women National Committee Aotearoa New Zealand (UN Women NCANZ) welcomes New Zealand winning a seat on the United Nations Security Council and is calling on New Zealand to use its position to proactively promote effective implementation of the...
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Waipareira and ACC sign Partnership
    Waipareira and The Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) have signed a Memorandum of Understanding at Whanau Centre, Henderson – marking a special day for the West Auckland Urban Maori organisation....
    Scoop politics | 20-10
  • Humanitarian aid desperately needed in Iraq and Syria
    Global Peace and Justice Auckland is calling on the government to provide humanitarian funding for non-aligned NGOs (non-governmental organisations) in the Middle East rather than give any support whatever for the US-led military campaign in the area....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Court Judicial Decision: Dotcom v The USA: 17 October 2014
    The United States of America is seeking the extradition of Messrs Dotcom, Batato, Ortmann and Van Der Kolk. The matter has been before the Courts on numerous occasions, and no further recitation of the facts is needed....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Marshall Island poet speaks at UN climate summit
    “The fossil fuel industry is the biggest threat to our very existence as Pacific Islanders. We stand to lose our homes, our communities and our culture. But we are fighting back. This coming Friday thirty Pacific Climate Warriors, joined by...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Many tourist car accidents preventable
    Simple steps could dramatically reduce the number of accidents involving tourists, says the car review website dogandlemon.com ....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • RainbowYOUTH: 25 Years, 25 More
    In 1989, a group of young people in Auckland got together to form a support group for LGBTIQ youth. They called it Auckland Lesbian And Gay Youth (ALGY). After 25 years, several location changes, a name change, a brand reboot...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Outdated Oath shows need for Kiwi Head of State
    MPs are sworn in today and New Zealand Republic has written to MPs asking them to talk about why 121 New Zealanders elected by the people of New Zealand and standing in the New Zealand Parliament swear allegiance to another...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Council shouldn’t revenue grab from windfall valuations
    Auckland Council should state clearly they will not try and capture revenue as a result of the latest valuations and needs reminding that the City’s skyrocketing property values doesn’t change the level or cost of Council’s services, says...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • EPMU endorses Andrew Little for Labour leadership
    The National Executive of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union unanimously endorsed Andrew Little for the role of Labour leader, at a meeting held yesterday. “I have been speaking to our workplace delegates at forums across the country over...
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • World Food Day promotes Agroecology not GE technology
    The UN has stated that agroecology is a major solution to feeding the world and caring for the earth....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Labour Names Review Team
    Labour’s New Zealand Council has appointed Bryan Gould as Convenor of its post-General Election Review. He will be joined on the Review Team by Hon Margaret Wilson, Stacey Morrison and Brian Corban....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • Contenders for Labour leadership debate for first time
    The contenders for the leadership of the Labour Party debated for the first time on TV One’s Q+A programme today....
    Scoop politics | 19-10
  • UN Ambassador Jim McLay on TV One’s Q+A programme
    New Zealand's United Nations Ambassador Jim McLay on TV One’s Q+A programme....
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • The Nation: RSA President BJ Clark & Ian Taylor, New NZ Flag
    Lisa Owen interviews RSA President BJ Clark and tech innovator Ian Taylor about changing the NZ flag...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • The Nation: RSA President BJ Clark & Ian Taylor, New NZ Flag
    Lisa Owen interviews RSA President BJ Clark and tech innovator Ian Taylor about changing the NZ flag...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
  • Lisa Owen interviews Foreign Minister Murray McCully
    Murray McCully says New Zealanders can expect a 5-10 year engagement against Islamic State if we join military action in Iraq and the government will take that “very carefully into account”...
    Scoop politics | 18-10
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