Snakeheads

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1. One Anonymous Bloke 1

   15 June 2015 at 12:26 pm

   When he says “I haven’t seen anything to suggest that”, he means he was briefed over the phone.

   When he says “I haven’t heard anything to suggest that”, he means he got the email.

   And of course there’s always the question of the meaning of the word “I” at any given moment.
   • Kiwiri 1.1

     15 June 2015 at 1:41 pm

     If he starts learning Braille asap, he will have another way out by saying he hasn’t seen nor heard anything to suggest blah blah balh.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1

       15 June 2015 at 1:45 pm

       Ka-ching! There’s a space for you two doors down from his office.
   • BLiP 1.2

     15 June 2015 at 2:28 pm

     When he says “I haven’t seen anything to suggest that”, he means he was briefed over the phone.

     When he says “I haven’t heard anything to suggest that”, he means he got the email.

     And of course there’s always the question of the meaning of the word “I” at any given moment.

     ^^^ QFT

     What we see happening now was carefully explained to National Ltd™ way back in 2013 when John Key’s pernicious Immigration Amendment Bill was debated. He was, at that time, caught in one of his most blatant lies . . .

     New Zealand has an arrangement to have asylum seekers processed in Australian detention camps

     . . . and still the lies go on.
2. Brillo 2

   15 June 2015 at 12:43 pm

   This is a wondrous new business model for enterprising boat-owners or boat-leasers from any country near Australia.

   Sell “cruise” or “excursion” tickets to a boatload of locals, provide a picnic lunch, sail to Australia, pocket the Abbott payoff, sail back.
   Repeat ad lib.

   We’re a country near Australia. What do you reckon?
3. Tracey 3

   15 June 2015 at 12:45 pm

   Given that the boat was allegedly heading to NZ, why would the Aussies have bothered with them at all, and not simply sent them on their merry way to our shores?

   Why not bring in death sentence for people smugglers, then the Aussies could board the boats, capture the smugglers and exchange them for their drug dealers
   • RJL 3.1

     15 June 2015 at 1:08 pm

     @ “Given that the boat was allegedly heading to NZ, why would the Aussies have bothered with them at all…”

     Boats (from this area, anyway) heading to NZ have to pass by Australia. Regardless of the humanity (or not) of the Australian responses, they would have to deal with many of the consequences of people smuggling into NZ (boats wrecked on route, etc). It also wouldn’t be clear that a boat was actually travelling to NZ and not planning on diverting and stopping in Australia.

     And it is probably safer for everyone to engage with the smuggling boats when they are in the Timor Sea / Arafura Sea or wherever it is that they are, instead of waiting until they are in the Tasman Sea / Pacific Ocean.
     • Tracey 3.1.1

       15 June 2015 at 1:14 pm

       but it was clear RJL, John Key said the boat was heading to NZ that is why NZ officials were in contact with Aussie over it’s route… he / they must have known something t make this boat of people different to all the previous.
       • RJL 3.1.1.1

         15 June 2015 at 1:29 pm

         @Tracey:

         A week elapsed between the boat being intercepted and turned around by the Australian Navy and then subsequently becoming stranded near Rote Island (John Key was talking about it after that). So, the knowledge of the boat’s claimed, intended destination may simply come from what the people on the boat told the Australian Navy when it was initially intercepted.

         Alternatively, our (Oz and / or NZ) intelligence agencies might have intercepted communications including cellphone transmissions from the boat that indicated its location. Presumably, all radio transmissions from all boats are intercepted.
         • RJL 3.1.1.1.1

           15 June 2015 at 1:53 pm

           “… indicated its location.”

           Sorry. “Indicated its destination.”
4. T Chris 4

   15 June 2015 at 12:54 pm

   Why would he know?
   • Tracey 4.1

     15 June 2015 at 12:59 pm

     Good question. However once he found out over the weekend, he would immediately send the word out to his cabinet to find out “yesterday: if anyone knew, right?
   • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2

     15 June 2015 at 1:02 pm

     I think “we’re going to become people smugglers” would come under the “no surprises” policy.

     He says he first heard about it in media reports over the weekend. Let’s just think back to when he said he first heard about Mike’s Sabinism, and ask ourselves whether we can trust his word, since it proved so false on that and other occasions.

     The details will come out. If the Aussies paid for those people to be re-routed, there are going to be criminal proceedings, and our Prime Minister says he doesn’t know to what extent we’re involved.
   • te reo putake 4.3

     15 June 2015 at 1:10 pm

     Key has known about the boat for at least a few weeks, saying on the 2nd of June that he knew “a while ago, but I can’t really go into all the details for some obvious reasons, but yeah, I knew some time ago.”

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/69027808/peoplesmuggling-boat-credible-risk-and-threat-to-nz

     And about the payments for at least one week:

     http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/275651/claim-officials-paid-for-boat-to-leave
     • One Anonymous Bloke 4.3.1

       15 June 2015 at 1:20 pm

       That’s even worse: after all this time he’s still unable to give an unequivocal assurance that we aren’t involved in this crime.
   • RJL 4.4

     15 June 2015 at 1:18 pm

     @Chris:

     Key *should* know, because (as Te Reo Putake says) Key’s been busy telling us for a fortnight about the boat and how he knew about for sometime and there was “a list of options” for dealing with them.

     http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/69027808/peoplesmuggling-boat-credible-risk-and-threat-to-nz
5. Bill 5

   15 June 2015 at 1:04 pm

   The NZ and Oz states should be sending luxury liners to pick up these poor bastards from their points of departure, not fucking them around while on the open sea in rickety craft.
   • Tracey 5.1

     15 June 2015 at 1:16 pm

     Key spoke about the vulnerability of the people etc… for a moment I thought of the poor of NZ and hoped Guyon would call him on it…
6. Paul Campbell 6

   15 June 2015 at 1:22 pm

   This event was different for two reasons, the Aussies paid off the people smugglers, they claimed they were going to NZ.

   What no one seems to be asking is “did Key’s govt pay of the people smugglers? (through the Aussie govt)”
   • Molly 6.1

     15 June 2015 at 1:36 pm

     The other vastly more suspicious question – did the Key government need another diversion and so collude with the Abbott government to have the paid off smugglers indicate their destination was NZ? (Bonus payments allocated for getting the spelling of our country right)
     • miravox 6.1.1

       15 June 2015 at 5:08 pm

       I’ve been wondering about the diversion too. Did the Prime Minister make up a threat to NZ to cover for some other idiocy that was going on with the government at the time?

       That explanation, bad as it is, is way less disturbing than the gaps in the story that people smugglers may have been paid off.
7. Sabine 7

   15 June 2015 at 1:38 pm

   I am at the point, where all i can say is: One can’t make this shit up.

   and just for once, Please dear National voter, please, enlighten me as to why (other then taxes) did you vote for National. What did you expect and was it delivered?

   Shameful is the word that comes to mind. Just simply shameful.
   • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1

     15 June 2015 at 1:52 pm

     Yes, but think of the profits available. Now, if you take fifty tonnes of people, at say, $1k per tonne, that’s a lot of moolah, sure, but think how much it costs to send them to Australian death camps.

     Perhaps Paula Rebstock can work something out.
8. hoom 8

   15 June 2015 at 2:09 pm

   Its worth noting that the trip from West Timor where they landed to NZ is 6,000km past a whole heap of other countries.

   Its a reverse Bligh but where the 2nd half is going into open cold sea.
   • the Pink Postman 8.1

     15 June 2015 at 4:16 pm

     And while all this horror is going on Key and his Right-Wing mates go home to their mansions and their classsy food . Key’s mother a Yidish refugee must be turning in her grave. He (Key) insults the proud record of Yidish peoples history on human rights. However what do we expect from Tories where -ever they come from.
     Uk ,Ausie and New Zealand Tories are all showing their true colours.
     But the poor sods in those rust buckets are still in hell. What can we do I’m ashamed at the ghastly remarks and actions of outr own people in Aotearoa.
     Our proud record of decency is also being abused under this far Right government.
     The way Key and his mates are reacting to this crisis is bordering on Fascism .
9. marty mars 9

   15 June 2015 at 4:55 pm

   What a pile of shit this is – if proven then they have just created another way to make more money from this evil. If proven then there is no moral distance between these people smugglers and the governments who pay them. I am beyond disgusted or disgusted beyond belief that this shit could happen – meanwhile more people in these boats suffer and are exploited. And to those who want fortress oz or nz – this is your future or the future you are complicit in creating. I doubt key is concerned – he admires money making.
   • Clemgeopin 9.1

     15 June 2015 at 11:42 pm

     Besides, at the end of the day, Key will go off to Hawaii, USA, leaving us, the poor suckers and our future generation to deal with the crap perpetrated by his goofy government. Mark my words, marty mars.
10. emergency mike 10

    15 June 2015 at 8:08 pm

    So the more desperate people you can con into giving you money for your boat ride, the more money you can expect to be paid from the Oz govt to turn around at some point.

    Has the ring of a typical Tony Abbott solution to me.
    • Clemgeopin 10.1

      15 June 2015 at 11:45 pm

      The RW capitalist governments that primarily work for the wealthy think that money solves everything. It doesn’t. In the end, It is the love of money and excessive greed that is actually the root of all evil.
11. Grantoc 11

    16 June 2015 at 7:42 pm

    Perhaps you should engage that serial litigant McCready. He’d like nothing better. He could even try serving a summons on Abbott to force him to testify against Key.

    Maybe McCready might uncover ‘facts’ that Key instigated the whole thing, and that Abbott was simply a naive and willing accomplice helping out a ‘mate’.

    Or maybe you could get real and accept that the payment of people smugglers had nothing to do with Key.

    BTW it was interesting to learn today that the Australians have been paying people smugglers for at least 4 years, including during the time when their last Labour government was in office.

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