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- Date published:
8:26 am, September 20th, 2024 - 19 comments
Categories: Christopher Luxon, crime, making shit up, mark mitchell, paul goldsmith, police, spin, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, you couldn't make this shit up -
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Unless you have been living under a rock or have been in an intense coma during the past few years you would have heard National spokespeople saying that gang membership numbers have surged under Labour many, many times.
Labour was allegedly soft on crime and the gangs were recruiting faster than the police.
Over the past five years gang membership numbers increased markedly.
Or so we were told.
Labour and others tried to explain what was happening.
The influx of 501s from Australia, beyond Labour’s control, bolstered gang membersip numbers.
The list was weird. Like Hotel California gang members could check in but they could never leave.
People leaving gangs were not necessarily taken off the list. Even dead Gang members stayed on the list. Police conceded that the list was “not for the purpose of counting membership numbers”.
And the process of identifying gang members appeared to be pretty haphazard.
This Stuff article, analysing a claim that Gang membership had increased by 66% under Labour, lays out the issues. From the article:
The first question to answer is how gang membership is measured. As you might imagine, it’s not straightforward.
Luxon [who had made the claim] appears to be quoting figures from the National Gang List. As at April, 2023, there were 8875 individuals recorded on the list. In April, 2017, there were 4915. That’s an increase of 3960 or 81%.
But the list, maintained by the Gang Harm Insights Centre, was established for “intelligence purposes”, police told Stuff – “not for the purpose of counting membership numbers”.
“The information is collected for the purpose of maintaining oversight of the gang environment to enhance understanding of the scale of social harm caused by, to, and within the New Zealand adult gang community.”
It is simply “one tool” helping agencies to understand gang-related harm.
A Gang Harm Insights Centre report from June, 2023 also notes: “[The National Gang List] holds limited information regarding patched or prospect members of New Zealand adult gangs only and is not intended as a reporting tool.”
This has been a long standing problem with the list and with the use of the list. Everyone knew it. But for political purposes National has insisted on claming that the list was evidence of swelling gang membership numbers and blamed Labour.
Until yesterday. At a press conference National effectively conceded that the list was not fit to be used for counting gang membership by announcing a change.
Under questioning Police conceded they had been doing “validation” of the list to make sure that only current members were on the list. No doubt significant political pressure has been exerted on the Police to do so. Without affecting the underlying ssituation and by altering the data National can then claim to have reduced gang membership numbers.
The press knew what was happening.
Christopher Luxon knew the press knew what was happening.
I am not so sure that Mark Mitcell understood what was happening but everyone else did.
This passage from the Herald shows clearly what was happening.
Luxon, Police Minister Mark Mitchell and Police Deputy Commissioner Jevon McSkimming spoke to media from the Police National Headquarters after today’s announcement of extra anti-gang police officers.
But when a reporter questioned Luxon and Mitchell about police removing gang members off the national gang list as part of “sanitising” it – including the removal of deceased people – Mitchell and Luxon appeared to become visibly frustrated.
The reporter suggested it was “convenient” for the Government for gang numbers to reduce and questioned if the Government had asked police to do it.
“Guys, guys, no disrespect,” Luxon said.
“It’s not about the frickin targets, it’s about outcomes.”
Luxon said the outcomes were reducing violent crime incidents.
Another reporter asked if the Government would start celebrating that the number of gang members on the national gang list were going down.
“You haven’t heard us do that,” Mitchell said.
“We’re not celebrating anything,” Luxon added.
Of course National have not celebrated gang membership numbers going down yet. They have to get enough off the list and also let the anti Gang Legislation be in force for a while before they can then celebrate.
For a Government that is obsessed with targets it is strange that they should claim that when it comes to gang membership it is not about the targets.
And at the same time that the Government conceded that the list was not fit for purpose Paul Goldsmith in Parliament yesterday, no doubt using the same dodgy statistics, said “Gang membership has increased by 51 percent over the past five years”.
On the same day that Luxon loses his cool for having his misuse of the gang list statistics rumbled Goldsmith continued to trot out the party line.
Run DMC said it best.
There are lies damned lies and statistics.
And politicians know this and have been using bullshit statistics to lie to the public for decades. Some sectors of the political debate have more honesty than others. We just need to figure out which. It's becoming more obvious by the day who are guilty of telling porkies
It is not easy for Jo Public to figure out what is BS and what is not????
As Micky links to in the Post above – the public are now being informed https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-whole-truth/132478912/national-says-gang-membership-is-rising-is-it
But this is not the only "statistic" being misused by this current shower.
144 levels of management , Renaming road maintenance budget to "Pothole fund", the list can go on… We are being lied to on a daily basis by this "govt" . Pity the PM who is allegedly a member of "The Upper Room" christian group doesn't read the daily bible reading for the past few days"- James 3: 3 – 6
IMO
As they are working in the service of evil I would remind them of Romans 6:23
So Look! They are working intensely hard right now*. So they should should expect some really amazing wages.
* They are looking this, and they are looking at that, and in some cases they are even looking into it!
Are Political Party Gang Patches included? I gather they have been banned from the House. But can Luxon now be arrested from wearing one in his Tesla?
Provisional list of porkie tellers:
Chris Luxon
Nicola Willis
Paul Goldsmith
Simeon Brown
Mark Mitchell
Simon Watts [climate]
David Seymour [double whammy]
Nicola McKee
Karen Chhour and last but not least
Winston Peters.
Feel free to add to list.
You omitted one of the most natural born bs artists in their ranks, chris bishop.
Hes made a career out if it.
Yeah I did. Black mark for me. 🙁
Louise Upston
With respect, it might be easier to identify who is not lying
To your list, I add Matt Doocey (health practitioners shook their heads), Shane Reti (more shaking of heads by medical practitioners and fact checked by multiple journalists), Brooke Van Velden (reprimanded by Parliamentary Commissioner), Casey Costello (found to be dishonest and deceptive by Chief Ombusdman).
😳
Shane Reti…I see Tui has also added him above.
Will a government that lies its way into power inevitably finish by lying their way out of power? Does any mechanism still exist that makes us confident that this will always be the case? Personally, I'm not confident at all.
Single issue voters – Tick their box and they will do a great three monkeys impression.
There is another simple explanation for some of the increase in gang numbers after 2017 – the police and the new government made a point of targeting gang crime, and gang monitoring.
The 501's contain many motivated recruiters
The trajectory of society helps with recruiting too.
Growing inequality, war on workers wages, conditions and rampant migration, housing inaffordability….
Great article, Mickey.
My notes from today:
Luxon is making headlines today for blowing his cool when asked by Benedict Collins why the government was reducing numbers on the gang list.
Gang list numbers were unceasingly used by National in opposition to justify why Labour “is weak on crime”.
National and NZME touted this constantly when Labour was in government. Here is Mitchell in 2022 with NZME’s Rachel Maher highlighting an explosion in gang numbers.
Mitchell: Clearly, Labour are “soft on crime” and have “failed to keep gangs under control, and tougher measures are needed to get on top of the problem.”
Despite being told by Labour and police it was not absolute proof of crime management nor gang numbers, National persisted in attacking Labour as ‘soft on crime’ with the gang list. So it was rich to see Luxon and Mitchell defend the gang list yesterday as unimportant and not necessarily always accurate.
Note: Dirty politics harms everyone – PLUS: As a regular observer of Luxon at press conferences, I can assure you he frequently gets angry and goes on the attack when faced with evidence or questions he doesn’t like. This is why the term “bully pulpit” frequently emerges in my mind when watching him in action.