Open mike 12/10/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 12th, 2024 - 44 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

44 comments on “Open mike 12/10/2024 ”

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  1. gsays 1
    12 October 2024 at 7:07 am

    A fairly balanced Marxist analysis from Roosevelt's New Deal to Neo-liberalism.

    I learnt that the New Deal, in part, was to offer an alternative in case all the unemployed during the depression found out about communism’s claims of full employment.

    Roosevelt's 2nd Bill of Rights sounds a bit like Aotearoa in the '70s.

    Around 45 minutes.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oYxnrNkYx-U&t=969s

  2. Morrissey 2
    12 October 2024 at 8:29 am

    Another trouble-maker from The Grayzone offends our allies in Tel Aviv

    Jeremy Loffredo should have taken a lesson from the likes of our brilliant RNZ reporters and newsreaders, and simply regurgitated U.S./Israeli propaganda, instead of getting himself arrested and beaten up by Israeli security forces.

    Personally, I don’t understand why any journalist would feel uncomfortable repeating Israel’s authorised version of events. It’s so much better for your career to gloss over the build up to World War III and the possible extinction of the human race. All you have to say is “Yup, that school was definitely exploded by a stray Hamas rocket” or “Sure, Israel sniped that toddler, but it has a right to defend itself”. You see how easy that was? Anyone who can’t lie for Israel gets no sympathy from me.

    If Israel doesn’t want people to know that rockets are reaching Tel Aviv, it’s because that information is not in the public interest. You’re not allowed to know the truth about Israel because the truth would make Israel look bad.

    I’m sure you will agree that journalists who don’t comply with Israeli censorship demands should be jailed for the rest of their lives, or even sent to death row. Jeremy Loffredo must be punished in the strongest way possible for telling the truth about Israel. It’s time to make an example of him so no one ever makes this mistake again.

    If you’re American, do not under any circumstances call the US embassy in Israel on +011-972-2-630-4000 or email them at JerusalemACS@state.gov to demand Loffredo’s release because this would make you a decent person who cares about journalistic freedom and human rights and we don’t do those things anymore, do we? x

    https://www.normalisland.co.uk/p/israel-hopes-to-put-american-on-death

    [Your infamous copy & paste skills appear to have gone downhill and you appear to have forgotten basic TS etiquette of using quotation marks. If you want to keep your commenting privileges here then lift your game above and beyond what we’ve come to expect from you; don’t waste Moderator time – Incognito]

    • Nic the NZer 2.1
      12 October 2024 at 11:14 am

      Jeremy Loffredo has been released according to the intercept.

      Israel likely acted here as he was investigating the actual damage to military (including Mossad) sites and that is considered a military secret (knowing where rockets fell being able to allow better future targeting).

      Clearly the positioning of the Mossad headquarters in the middle of Tel Aviv makes it very difficult to keep people away from observing where missiles landed.

    • Incognito 2.2
      12 October 2024 at 11:20 am

      Mod note

  3. Jenny 3
    12 October 2024 at 9:26 am

    In a just world Chai Hamo could expect to receieve a summons from the ICC in his inbox.

    From Wikpedia the online encyclopedia:

    Incitement to genocide

    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Incitement_to_genocide

    Incitement to genocide is a crime under international law which prohibits inciting (encouraging) the commission of genocide.

    An extreme form of hate speech, incitement to genocide is an inchoate offense and is theoretically subject to prosecution even if genocide does not occur, although charges have never been brought in an international court without mass violence having occurred. "Direct and public incitement to commit genocide" was forbidden by the Genocide Convention in 1948…..

    I don't think even Belladonna or even SPC would deny that mass violence hadn't occured.

    But if I think Chai Hamo will be summoned by the ICC?

    Based on the reluctance of the ICC to seek summons for Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Galant, I would say, not a chance. And Hamo knows it.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vkCAj4gKXgk

    [It’s overdue for reminding you to stop personalising your comments because this tends to aggravate others and lead to flame wars. You have a bad habit of conflating context and content, i.e., you attack the messenger instead of the message. Unfortunately, you’re not the only one here doing this.

    I don’t think even Belladonna or even SPC would deny that mass violence hadn’t occured. [sic]

    FYI, mass violence and genocide are not equivalent terms, so when you criticise comments, it may pay to read them properly before you launch into your idiosyncratic tirade of quotes, links, and YT clips.

    This is your warning – Incognito]

    • SPC 3.1
      12 October 2024 at 9:53 am

      How many groups have you accused of genocide? Surely not even the most fixated of cause activists fail to see history and context.

      The Israeli judge on the ICC, was concerned by incitement to genocide and of any obstruction to aid (for reasons cited by Lancet, war can lead to more death by disease and famine than the original violence).

      But generally individuals with no standing/position of authority would not be on the ICC radar, though many have faced an employer investigation for less.

      • SPC 3.1.1
        12 October 2024 at 10:09 am

        From that, the ICC could ask the employer (IDF) about it (and their policy on soldiers use of social media), given some actions resulting from such attitudes could be a war crime.

      • Jenny 3.1.2
        12 October 2024 at 11:06 am

        SPC @3.1

        12 October 2024 at 9:53 am

        How many groups have you accused of genocide?

        And the answer to your question SPC is; Three

        1. I and many others have accused the Zionist regime of Benjamin Netanyahu of committing genocide.

        2, I and many others have accused the Fascist regime of Bashar Al-Assad of committing genocide.

        Jenny @13

        11 February 2017 at 2:25 pm

        Hero singer throat cut and voicbox and tongue cut out…..

        http://freemuse.org/archives/5054

        [Sick and tired of you habitually posting mostly irrelevant comment upon comment on the bottom of threads that mention Syria in any way. I’m banning you for the weekend so I don’t have to keep an eye out, and I’ll ban you for a very long time if you ever pull this bullshit again.] – Bill

        Jenny @13.1.1.2

        14 February 2017 at 5:36 am

        Jenny posts those same tired links time after time after time (two others have already been shunted to OM) and always or usually after a thread is ‘finished’ and as a block of ‘spam’ that has got nothing to do with engaging or debating.

        Bill

        This accusation is unfair and untrue. That I am not interested in engaging or debating is the opposite of the case, it is you and the other supporters of the Syrian regime who refuses to engage or debate.

        …..So despite your threats Bill I will repost this question again. And make it as simple as possible.

        Who did this?

        And is it not evidence of genocide?

        1. I and many others have accused the Fascist regime of Adolf Hitler of committing genocide.

        SPC, I have done you the decency of answering your question. How about you do the same, and answer a question from me, And I would like an answer.

        What other groups have you denied of committing genocide?

        Do you deny the genocide committed in Syria by Assad?

        Do you deny the genocide committed in Europe by Hitler?

        Just trying to get an idea of how deep your genocide denial goes.

        • SPC 3.1.2.1
          12 October 2024 at 2:20 pm

          I generally distinguish between war crimes and genocide, as would any legal body making a determination.

          I would regard Putin as guilty of war crimes (the invasion and the practice of war), but not genocide (I am unsure how one categorises removing people from Ukraine to populate Russia against their will – but for now in a time of war, it can still be posed as offering a safe refuge).

          I would regard Assad as guilty of "civil war" crimes (prisoner abuse) and also the indiscriminate (and illegal) bombing of urban areas (he would use the excuse that rebels were there rather than in the field). As he is leader of a secular "socialist" party backed by both Iran and Russia, I am not sure, if one can pose it as a war of genocide against Moslems (even if against those seeking a Moslem order to government), a tyrant using force to stay in power, sure.

          For mine, perspective on this ("genocide") is informed by what happens to those who fled the violence – if he wants a depopulated managed Syria to rule over – the effective mass expulsion of those not supporting the regime (then and now), then that places the many deaths of civilians in the rebel held areas in another context.

          https://voicesforsyrians.org/is-syria-safe-for-return-returnees-perspectives/

          And this, perspective on Syria.

          https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/dome.12304

          The Islamic State seem to have been guilty of attempting to kill non Moslems, a genocidal course.

          The actions of a group in Sudan, against Africans in the south of the country, have been genocidal at times (2003-2005 and since).

          There were war crimes recently in Ethiopia, but not really an attempt at genocide of the Tigray people over secession (more regional self-government). Nor was the Saudi bombing of the Houthi in Yemen.

          20th C cases, well early on the Turk was known by Arabs for the "flea on a camel" collective punishment system etc (mainstream imperial) and when moving to nation from empire, by not including those neither Turk nor Moslem (Armenians got Armenia). Lucky to be a Kurd there instead … unless linked to foreign Kurds in Syria or Iraq or Iran and wanting their own identity or nation…

          Greeks and Turks, Moslems and Hindus, Zionist Jews and Palestinians sorted out border arrangements.

          Then Cambodia, the Balkans and our involvement UNSC – 1990's.

          https://airforcemuseum.co.nz/blog/the-right-people-at-the-right-time-the-rnzaf-mission-to-rwanda-in-1994/

          This is pertinent.

          But when it began, the slaughter was portrayed as a civil war rather than genocide – a distinction which delayed UN intervention.

          Of course, there was Hutu committing genocide against Tutsi.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-in-hot-seat-over-genocide-in-rwanda/KDEF5AVOTOIS5YX4U6PRYGXJJA/

          The UN at the time was focused on the "ethnic people" disputes in former Yugoslavia, Cambodia aftermath (one party state vs the people).

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide

          Lebanon – the purpose of UNSC Resolution 1701 was to spare Lebanon from becoming mired in conflict between Iran and Israel.

          Iran wants to end Israel as a nation. Yet, Iran, while posing as against non Moslem governance in the region, they aided the continuance of the secular socialist Baath Party in Syria.

          if someone tells you want their goal is believe them

          BN opposed the Oslo Accords process to establish two states, thus the continuing expansion of the settlement of the WB.

          It seems Iran the revolutionary Islamic republic will work with secular Arabs and Russians vs Zionists.

          For mine, it is important the Arab League bring Iran into the two state peace camp and leave Israel no choice but to move on from the current government. If that requires two ministers, even BN does not in his war cabinet, cited for incitement for genocide – so be it.

      • Nic the NZer 3.1.3
        12 October 2024 at 11:23 am

        There are legal cases being taken all across Europe attempting to prosecute dual citizens for potential war crimes committed while serving in the IDF. Most court systems in the world, including New Zealand, have ways for cases to be taken against individuals even when dealing with citizens serving overseas.

        Though the impact of this will take time to observe Israel has become a much less international, much more isolated group of citizens, as a result of this.

        • SPC 3.1.3.1
          12 October 2024 at 12:44 pm

          I suspect their social media accounts would generally be the more circumspect ones. Though it might impact some of those more extremist dual citizens of the WB settlements.

    • Incognito 3.2
      12 October 2024 at 12:24 pm

      Mod note

  4. Jenny 4
    12 October 2024 at 9:55 am

    '

    'Justice Delayed Is Justice Denied'

    And never has that legal mantra been proven more true than by the stalling tactics of the ICC

    In the cases of the ICC warrants being sought by the ICC prosecutor Karim Kahn, for the arrest of Benjamin Netanyahu, Yoav Galant, Yahya Sinar, Ismail Haniyeh and Deif.

    Kahn had first approached the court to issue a summons for the arraignment of the three leaders of Hamas for the war crimes committed on October 7 in Israel.

    After an outcry from the global south, and human rights groups, summons for the much larger war crimes committed on the orders of Netanyahu, and Galant in Gaza were also sought by the ICC prosecutor.

    The ICC couldn't issue warrants, for only just the three Hamas leaders, without discrediting themselves in the eyes of the majority of the world's countries. So the ICC has to issue arrest summons for the Israeli leaders as well. Something, apparenty, they are very reluctant to do.
    And until they do, they can't issue arrest summons for Sinwar, Haniyeh and Dief either.

    Two of the three Hamas leaders, Dief and Haniyeh, that Karim Kahn has sought arrest summons for, have been killed.
    If the last Hamas leader Khan is seeking a warrant for is killed, the ICC's dilemma is resolved.

    The ICC is waiting for the death of Yahya Sinwar, apparently.

    Following the succefful assassination of Yahya Sinwar by Israel, the ICC will……

    [Watch This Space.]

    • SPC 4.1
      12 October 2024 at 10:30 am

      Neither the United States of America nor Israel accept the jurisdiction of the ICC (and a range of other nations).

      But its decisions would influence where people travel (Putin not going to South Africa because of an ICC arrest warrant). After an arrest warrant BN could go to the USA or Russia, but not that many other places.

      That said the ICC would be smarter to focus on two Cabinet Ministers (Finance and Security) for incitement, much easier to verify the case for it.

      Not even BN would have those two in his war cabinet.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_cabinet

      • Belladonna 4.1.1
        12 October 2024 at 2:57 pm

        Most of the Middle East doesn't accept the ICC jurisdiction, either.

        https://asp.icc-cpi.int/states-parties

        Specifically, Iran, Qatar (which is home to Hamas headquarters), Egypt (where Sinwar was born), and the UAE do not. Sinwar might have a problem if he travels to Jordan (although, in practice, I'd suspect that his chances of being handed over are minimal).

        In reality, of course, given that he's in Gaza – which is a war zone – the chances of any official criminal trial happening are minuscule. It's a piece of theatre to make the ICC feel relevant, when they have no actual jurisdiction or control over anything to do with the situation (none of the parties in the case come from countries which are signatories). Pretended justice is even more denied than real justice.

        • Nic the NZer 4.1.1.1
          12 October 2024 at 4:34 pm

          The ICC has jurisdiction, this has already been determined.

        • Nic the NZer 4.1.1.2
          13 October 2024 at 5:01 pm

          Probably is important that Israel doesn't accept the ICC jurisdiction of course. Otherwise, it seems it would be viable for a case to be mounted against the IDF for the killing of Israeli captives on October 7th 2023.

          The execution of captives (military or civilian) being well established as a war crime. I don't see why a distinction would be drawn for the execution of Israeli captives, though clearly the case would have to prove intention, rather than them being killed accidentally in cross-fire.

          The extra hurdle doesn't seem difficult to cross, regardless of how IDF regulations are actually written, the understanding of the commanders executing these orders was that the captives ought to be killed rather than captured. The use of high explosive here also making that intentionality quite clear.

          The use of this directive on October 7th strongly resembles previous applications of this or similar IDF directives where the only reasonable expectation is that the captives are killed by IDF fire.

    • Anne 5.1
      12 October 2024 at 12:55 pm

      Reminds me of those two middle aged women at the Parliament grounds protest who were wearing tin-foil hats to ward off the "electro magnetic waves" – or whatever – that the police had inserted inside the large concrete blocks/bollards along the front of parliament buildings. 😮

      • Macro 5.1.1
        12 October 2024 at 1:20 pm

        Yeah – but it just keeps on coming…

        Good OpEd on the bull that just keeps on giving here

        Hurricane Milton has left two worlds in its wake. Elon Musk lives in one of them. The other is called reality

        I increasingly wonder why Elon Musk is bothering trying to establish himself on Mars, and not just because it looks like a complete dump up there. (Seriously, if you think that’s beautiful, I have around a hundred thousand disused quarries I’d love to show you right here on Earth.) Watching Hurricane Milton play out on Musk’s platform and elsewhere cemented the notion that the goal of being on another planet along with millions of people had already occurred. The only problem is that this whole other planet is here, sharing meatspace with what we used to call “reality”. …

      • gsays 5.1.2
        12 October 2024 at 6:40 pm

        I've gotta ask Anne,

        "…Parliament grounds protest who were wearing tin-foil hats to ward off the "electro magnetic waves" – or whatever – that the police had inserted inside the large concrete blocks/bollards along the front of parliament buildings. 😮"

        Do you know their motivation as a fact?

  6. aj 6
    12 October 2024 at 11:09 am

    IT's good to see large sporting clubs taking the initiative on mental health issues. Would we ever see something like this from our leading codes? I'd love to think it could happen. Talking saves lives.

    https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2024-10-04/club-to-hold-minute-unsilenced-for-mental-health

    In the UK someone dies by suicide every 90 minutes, but it doesn’t have to be this way.

    https://x.com/NorwichCityFC/status/1844340829013369161

  7. joe90 7
    12 October 2024 at 12:29 pm

    A year ago Russia kidnapped Ukrainian journalist Viktoria Roshchina while she was reporting from the occupied Zaporizhia region.

    They killed her in prison because she was a journalist.

    /

    New York, October 10, 2024 — Russian authorities must immediately disclose the circumstances surrounding the death in Russian captivity of 27-year-old Ukrainian journalist Viktoria Roshchina, the Committee to Protect Journalists said Thursday.

    “CPJ is shocked by the news of Viktoria Roshchina’s death during her unlawful imprisonment by Russia. We extend our deep condolences to her family and loved ones,” said Gulnoza Said, CPJ’s Europe and Central Asia program coordinator. “Responsibility for her death lies with the Russian authorities, who detained her for daring to report the truth on the Russia-Ukraine war. Ukrainian and Russian authorities must do everything in their power to investigate Roshchina’s death.”

    https://cpj.org/2024/10/ukranian-journalist-viktoria-roshchina-dies-during-russia-prisoner-exchange/

  8. SPC 8
    12 October 2024 at 2:49 pm

    Can she please wear a paint on moko and mention the Treaty and UNDRIP, as per He Puapua and being a bi-national state with a multi-cultural society by 2040 …at Windsor Castle.

    Make the now Prince William proud to be in her presence.

    https://64.media.tumblr.com/eb45d98a5e0fba8589473d3bfbace771/a4dab2d2ded8d95e-f9/s1280x1920/8fd5535f77abb4f5a6d962481dab45f09be74a85.jpg

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350449290/jacinda-ardern-receive-damehood-prince-william-windsor-castle

  9. lprent 9
    12 October 2024 at 3:50 pm

    Oops – broke the layout on the search widget whilst doing the merge. Oh well guess that will be in the third fix.

  10. SPC 10
    12 October 2024 at 5:11 pm

    Has New Zealand First been convinced NZ Incorporated needs more foreign investment, not in the ownership of school and hospital buildings favoured by ACT, but in the productive economy?

    And what does this mean, in terms of economic growth advocacy?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nz-first-conference-winston-peters-promises-major-overseas-investment-policy-announcement/6JBLAS2O4ZFKFIWVIGJ65JZRFY/

  11. joe90 11
    12 October 2024 at 7:17 pm

    It has to be something in the water.

    /

    .

    I’m Running Out of Ways to Explain How Bad This Is

    What’s happening in America today is something darker than a misinformation crisis.

    […]

    The truth is, it’s getting harder to describe the extent to which a meaningful percentage of Americans have dissociated from reality. As Hurricane Milton churned across the Gulf of Mexico last night, I saw an onslaught of outright conspiracy theorizing and utter nonsense racking up millions of views across the internet. The posts would be laughable if they weren’t taken by many people as gospel. Among them: Infowars’ Alex Jones, who claimed that Hurricanes Milton and Helene were “weather weapons” unleashed on the East Coast by the U.S. government, and “truth seeker” accounts on X that posted photos of condensation trails in the sky to baselessly allege that the government was “spraying Florida ahead of Hurricane Milton” in order to ensure maximum rainfall, “just like they did over Asheville!”

    https://archive.ph/gh6Sq (theatlantic)

    • adam 11.1
      12 October 2024 at 10:05 pm

      The thing that stocks civil wars is magical thinking. Seen magical thinking play itself out in all the ugly civil wars across the globe the last couple of decades.

      We seemed to have made the problem much worse with social media, or as one of my friends said. "We have this really bad idea – bet we can make it a really big bad idea with social media" . Not forgetting the rise of nut bag social media celebrities like alex jones.

      I worry for the people inside the USA, I really do.

      • joe90 11.1.1
        13 October 2024 at 12:10 pm

        More bad people than magical thinking.

        .

        Lara and Eric Trump-backed “prophet” claims God told her the hurricanes were “man-made” and “they” will also “set off” an earthquake

        Prophet” Julie Green told followers that the Lord told her that the recent hurricanes were “all man-made” and that the weather events were deliberately created or manipulated as a form of “election interference.” She added that “they” will “set off” an earthquake at some point.

        Green isn’t a random grifter: She’s connected to Trump’s inner circle and has been heavily endorsed by Eric Trump. The former president’s son told Green that she’s “so incredible,” stated that he’s saved one of her messages, called her a “warrior,” and thanked her for their “friendship.”

        Green has also spoken with Republican National Committee co-Chair Lara Trump, who told Green that she was “so honored” to be on her podcast. She also said: “On behalf of our whole family, thank you for all of the prayers, thank you for believing in my father-in-law, and for fighting alongside of us.”

        During a recent podcast appearance, Green — as she does — pushed far-right conspiracy theories while telling people what “the Lord had talked about” regarding the country, including that the Lord supposedly said that the recent hurricanes were “deliberate,” “man-made,” and “another form of election interference”

        https://www.mediamatters.org/hurricanes/lara-and-eric-trump-backed-prophet-claims-god-told-her-hurricanes-were-man-made-and-they