Andrew Little At Labour Conference

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1. Richard Rawshark 1

   8 November 2016 at 12:40 pm

   Watching now, audio needs syncing (out of sync) while Andrew speaks.

   The start got me hot and almost ready to start marching.. we need to change this government. Hell yeah!
2. Richard Rawshark 2

   8 November 2016 at 1:18 pm

   So I watched Andrew Speech now. Here’s my opinion.

   There are some rough edges to Iron out. To me public orating, music , it’s kind of similar.

   By this I mean Andrew had set talking points, passionate pieces where you could not help be moved as he punctuated those points he was almost perfect. Then you bring the audience back down and gently build them up to the points you wish to make for the next piece, here we had four, with him using some examples to lay foundation for the next talking point emphasised with a rising voice and passionate delivery in between.

   He was too long on the chorus and not enough on the crescendo. IE the quiet calm to build up the drama was just to long, not even sure examples are a good break between them, perhaps more reference to what current policies that national has introduced and how it has done harm before building up the audience with his Labour parties policy points and what they will do.

   The finger pointing, really good use of emphasis with the hands but less pointing with that finger.

   Polished up and a bit more practise he’ll be one leader who can bring a crowd to a roar, he just has to keep them focused I was drifting off during those drawn out examples.

   Couple times he lost his lines, minor, once at the police numbers, couple minor times..

   It was a difficult and long speech so I can understand that.

   The beginning was fantastic.. it really was, it just drifted of course a little as it went on.
3. fisiani 3

   8 November 2016 at 1:47 pm

   From Radio NZ

   The jobs policy would be for those on the Jobseeker benefit for more than six months, and would not be compulsory.

   But that’s where the policy could get tricky for Labour as Mr Little said there were already sanctions in place for those on the Jobseeker benefit who did not fulfil their obligations; sanctions Labour has previously described as punitive.

   When Mr Little was asked about how young people would be made to do the paid work if they flat out refused, he referred to the sanctions, and in the next breath reverted to the criticism of them as punitive.

   Then he settled on young people being “actively managed” after their six months on a benefit, which left reporters none the wiser about whether those young people would have a choice about whether they would take up the six months work, or how much pressure they would come under to do so.

   or in other words Yeah…..nah
   • Richard Rawshark 3.1

     8 November 2016 at 2:02 pm

     RNZ

     yeah nah
     • fisiani 3.1.1

       8 November 2016 at 2:37 pm

       RNZ Yeah ..nah for reporting what Little said?????
       • Richard Rawshark 3.1.1.1

         8 November 2016 at 2:57 pm

         Is that what he said what you have posted?
   • Enough is Enough 3.2

     8 November 2016 at 3:11 pm

     Labour is in serious need of some decent Coms staff.

     What is a good policy has become a cluster fuck because no one can explain it in simple terms that don’t confuse journalists or provide the Nats with any ammunition.

     It is pretty simple shit. When you are about to announce a new policy, stress test it by getting a devils advocate in the room and try and work out every Tory attack line. Don’t leave any announcements open to those attack lines.

     If you get to the position when you need to clarify points with journalist or explain how the policy operates for days on end, then you probably fucked up the initial announcement.
     • Richard Rawshark 3.2.1

       8 November 2016 at 3:54 pm

       NO

       it was costed AND explained to that very Media and now they are on a proper hatchet job. Pretending and ramping it up.

       Newshub TV3..Henry gone 7 sharp gone. Yep doing well.

       TV3 are DESPERATE to survive.. carry on like this they will end up buried.

       They disgust me. Don’t blame Andrew or anybody else for this.
       • Infused 3.2.1.1

         9 November 2016 at 2:20 am

         No it wasn’t and has been proved today. Labour are idiots
         • Sigh 3.2.1.1.1

           9 November 2016 at 9:25 am

           Actually the policy was costed along orthodox lines. The offer is for six months’ work. Not everyone will complete that work as a number will go off and find alternative work or training, which is as the policy is intended. That’s why you cost on an average length of time people are expected to be in the course. Based on existing Jobseeker numbers, the average time would be four months.

           To have costed at six months would have been absurd, and it’s not how costings are modelled. Have a look at Paid Parental Leave, which does not assume all parents taking it take the full 18 weeks. Have a look at student numbers, where universities do not assume all students finish their course. Have a look at Superannuation, which does not assume all citizens live to 65. This is utterly orthodox, and all that has been shown is that the press gallery do not understand how to do costings.

           To blame this on Labour’s comms is a cop out. What we have is a press gallery that takes the Nats’ spin on face value and refuses to admit when it’s wrong.
         • Richard Rawshark 3.2.1.1.2

           9 November 2016 at 9:46 am

           repeat lie, ad nauseum there’s spew all over the place. we need a cleaner.
     • Chuck 3.2.2

       8 November 2016 at 5:44 pm

       “Labour is in serious need of some decent Coms staff.”

       They have had a revolving door for Coms staff, just managing to hire a couple more the other month.

       And it shows…
       • Ian 3.2.2.1

         8 November 2016 at 7:29 pm

         Little is a union stooge with the mentality of a union stooge. A turd needs to be flushed as no amount of polishing will improve a turd. He has destroyed the labour party as an electable party capable of governing. Well done Andrew.
         • One Anonymous Bloke 3.2.2.1.1

           8 November 2016 at 7:45 pm

           🙄

           Ian’s little hate is boiling over!
           • Ian 3.2.2.1.1.1

             8 November 2016 at 7:54 pm

             Not really. Just saying it as it is.
             • Leftie …

               8 November 2016 at 8:39 pm

               No you’re not.
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               9 November 2016 at 5:57 am

               Thank you for displaying your symptoms so openly so we can get a good look at you.
           • GregJ 3.2.2.1.1.2

             8 November 2016 at 10:38 pm

             I find it hard to believe that any genuine Labour Party supporter uses the term “Union stooge”.

             I sense a RWNJ concern troll who has probably never voted for Labour anyway.
       • Stuart Munro 3.2.2.2

         8 November 2016 at 11:00 pm

         No.

         Labour need to bring the hammer down on media liars.

         Boycott the Herald – declaring it Black would be even better.

         Give Gower and Vance a year in Coventry each. Fuck ’em.

         Fuckwit reporters are not the story. “Gotcha” news is not the story.

         Meltdown – Key wants to talk about meltdown?

         Home ownership headed for 40% is a meltdown John.

         Giving our money to Clinton and the Sheikh is a meltdown John.

         8 years of unremitting failure is a meltdown John.

         You want Little to lie down because its the only way you can beat him.
         • Leftie 3.2.2.2.1

           8 November 2016 at 11:58 pm

           +1 Stuart Munro
         • Sam C 3.2.2.2.2

           9 November 2016 at 10:47 am

           “You want Little to lie down because its the only way you can beat him”.

           I was having an average morning until I read that. You should get involved in comedy Stuart.
     • Wainwright 3.2.3

       8 November 2016 at 7:59 pm

       Amen, also the need to stop obsessing about costings. Forecasting the costs of any policy is so subjective the Gnats will always be able to rip it apart so why give them ammunition?
       • Nic the NZer 3.2.3.1

         8 November 2016 at 9:43 pm

         “Amen, also the need to stop obsessing about costings. ”

         Spot on. The simple facts need to be put forward. First the costings are about as accurate as any treasury forecast (e.g not very accurate at all). There are many components which are just guess work, like how many will take up the scheme, or how much gst will they pay due to their extra income. Also the more effective your scheme the further the economy leaves status quoue and so the more up in the air your forecast is anyway. and at the end of the day the government cant run out of money anyway so its pretty inconsequential exactly what forecast numbers are put up.

         How accurate are treasury forecasts?
         http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11561359

         Or to quote the finance minister “It’s not disappointing; it’s just another Treasury forecast”.

         They are typically pretty close give or take a billion dollers.
       • Richard Rawshark 3.2.3.2

         9 November 2016 at 9:50 am

         When they ask next time for costing you say, well we got a few billion of Bills borrowing to work with haven’t we? so no problem really.
   • Bill 3.3

     8 November 2016 at 3:16 pm

     Just because Andrew Little has a moral framework that suggests having a job is a good thing and somehow neither demeaning nor an affront to basic notions of human decency – where does he get the notion that it’s okay to foist all that onto others?

     I don’t know any unemployed people who are idle. There should be no sanctions. No compulsion. Nothing.

     If Labour was talking of a living wage as opposed to a minimum wage and doing that alongside a commitment to reverse the benefit cuts instigated in the 90’s as well as a reversal of those imposed by the last Labour government, then it just might be a worthwhile policy, except…

     …beyond the ‘pretend and extend’ and in spite of all this guff about ‘the future of work’ being about mechanisation and computerisation, the global economy is set to be sent reeling by the impacts of climate change.

     So to hell with the DOC work and the community service – pay people a living wage to begin the process of making our homes and other pieces of infrastructure resistant to the likely impacts of global temp rises in excess of 2 degrees. (Working to an assumption of 4 degrees would be prudent)

     And while we’re at it, re-purpose the army to the same ends.

     Alarmist? Ridiculous? No. It’s called getting real.

     A few months back Adam posted a link in comments to a Stein interview where she said that the US’s ‘National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) were now predicting a 3m rise in sea level by 2050 off the back of preliminary data coming from Antarctica. I chased that down. A senior advisor within NOAA is indeed telling the insurance industry that bar some glitch in the data, it’s possible that we’re looking at 3 by 50.

     How much of NZ’s roading, port facilities, rail, housing, power distribution, reticulated water supplies etc are going to be able to be left where they are right now in that scenario?

     Don’t give it any thought. Let’s have thousands of people tasked with killing possums and working in food banks. She’ll be right.

     Margaret Davidson, NOAA’s senior advisor for coastal inundation and resilience science and services, and Michael Angelina, executive director of the Academy of Risk Management and Insurance, offered their take on climate change data in a conference session titled “Environmental Intelligence: Quantifying the Risks of Climate Change.”

     Davidson said recent data that has been collected but has yet to be made official indicates sea levels could rise by roughly 3 meters or 9 feet by 2050-2060, far higher and quicker than current projections.

     http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2016/04/12/405089.htm

     It ain’t the young unemployed who need a kick in the pants Andrew.
     • Chris 3.3.1

       8 November 2016 at 7:45 pm

       Absolutely bloody spot on.
     • Nic the NZer 3.3.2

       8 November 2016 at 9:23 pm

       Its not that young people need a kick in the pants, thats not what this policy is about at all. Its simple math, when there are not enough jobs (suitable for young people) to go around then some of them must go without and be unemployed. Without sufficient jobs that outcome always happens regardless of how hard they try (just like in musical chairs). This is especially hard on the unemployed as they find it harder to get a job than for an employed person to change jobs.

       And yes the proposal is far far too small. It should be unconditionally available and to all unemployed (and under employed) for as long as they want it. With a much broader range of occupations taking part in the scheme as well.
4. Richard Rawshark 4

   8 November 2016 at 3:50 pm

   So he say. Right i’m going to increase the minimum wage to say 20 dollars.., just a figure for example.

   We get a hostile media attacking him till the election, how much this going to cost, businesses moaning everyone attacking Labour.

   Give me a break, everything labour says, the media think it’s news to rip to shreds.

   You can raise the minimum wage. It just does not need to be announced.

   Do you think he should politic with extreme policy when Labour are centre left. ?

   Morgans doing the UBI, so covered.

   Greens doing environment and remember a thing called the memorandum of understanding.. consequences of conflicting policy losing both parties votes.?

   I think your not being fair.

   I’m waiting for the Greens to solve your issues of the environment.., not Labour.

   You JUST cannot please all the people all time.

   /sigh
   • Leftie 4.1

     8 November 2016 at 8:52 pm

     Know what you mean. I hear you Richard.
   • Nic the NZer 4.2

     8 November 2016 at 9:44 pm

     Whats this Morgan stuff I hear going around? Is he starting a political party?
     • Craig H 4.2.1

       8 November 2016 at 10:34 pm

       Yes, The Opportunity Party.
5. fisiani 5

   8 November 2016 at 9:46 pm

   That rousing speech will rally the troops and I expect the next poll to show Labour over 40%. Then I woke up. The general opinion of thepublic is that the dodgy numbers and conflicting statements about enforcement and of course taxing businesses who dare to employ a refugee or immigrant confirms that Labour could not even organise a piss up in a brewery. This will be the talk of the summer barbeques. The meme ‘Angry Andy’ is taking root in the public. How low can limbo Labour go?
   • Craig H 5.1

     8 November 2016 at 10:36 pm

     The training levy on employers of migrants is a recent UK Tory policy…

     However Labour only suggested it for occupations on the Skill Shortages Lists.

     Refugees get resident visas so would not require levies.
     • save nz 5.1.1

       9 November 2016 at 10:10 am

       I’d like to see a move to the Australian system (not sure if they still use it) but if you migrated to Australia you had to have a profit (not turnover) over $50k for your business and employ two Australian workers and keep that up for 5 years or so to get residency. That way only the successful entrepreneurs got residency.

       In NZ migrants can come over, get a job and then be made redundant and then go on the dole or do a business that loses money. Not sure how that is good for the economy here.

       You could easily invest 10 million in property (farm/residential) and then lose money on it on paper, leave the country, employ nobody or other migrants and that seems to be ok in NZ.

       Not to mention the $20k bribes for someone to be employed or the $2 p/h, $8 p/h wages some employers are paying. Yep they get caught but what’s the deterrent – the employeer should have to pay massive fines to the employee and the government, be deported if they are not resident and maybe a jail sentence if it is widespread over a lot of employees or businesses.

       On the flip side we have real skilled migrants trying to settle in NZ and the leave because working conditions and wages are so ridiculous, here we can’t keep them such as Wellington Hospital lost its leading cardio-electrophysiologist, Dr Alejandro Jimenez Restrepo. Clearly there is a problem attracting quality migrants (and also keeping NZ talent) when employees are not valued and feel they can not make a difference in NZ and employers are encouraged to think of workers as commodities, ship em in or employee them cheap, don’t listen just pretend to, and if that doesn’t work out, who cares.

       http://werewolf.co.nz/2014/12/public-health-the-silent-crisis/

       Really there is a balance but NZ clearly has it horribly wrong.
   • Richard Rawshark 5.2

     9 November 2016 at 8:41 am

     It’s stil 2km higher than Key and McCully..

     there’s robust debate, and there shit stirring which camp do you BM and Chucky fall into..

     I hope the admins return shortly because while they have been busy at the Labour conference your little fucks have been taking the piss.

     Right now fifi, yep you got me, proper.

     it worked, well done, now fuck off.

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