Chicken

Written By: - Date published: 3:42 pm, April 15th, 2014 - 133 comments
Categories: david cunliffe, election 2014, housing, john key - Tags:

John Key with hat

On the weekend David Cunliffe criticised the Government’s handling of housing issues.  He said that in his own electorate of New Lynn housing is the number one electorate issue facing people, and that there are not enough affordable homes.  He also expressed concern at the impact housing affordability would have on his kids’ ability to house themselves.  The video is here and is worth watching.

Yesterday John Key challenged Cunliffe to a debate.  According to TVNZ Key said:

David Cunliffe wants to have a bit of chat on nationwide TV about it, more than happy to do so, we can call it the first debate, more than happy to do so,” says Mr Key.

Cunliffe quickly accepted the challenge.

Today it is another story.  Stuff is reporting:

Prime Minister John Key is refusing to debate housing policy with Labour leader David Cunliffe until the election campaign proper after yesterday signalling he was happy to have a head-to-head clash.

What is that word starting with “C” and ending with “hicken”?

133 comments on “Chicken ”

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  1. Populuxe1 1
    15 April 2014 at 3:48 pm

    And yet Cunliffe was a no show for two pre-booked Campbell Live interviews. I do wish everyone could sort their shit out.

    • mickysavage 1.1
      15 April 2014 at 3:52 pm

      And the relevance is?

      • shorts 1.1.1
        15 April 2014 at 4:00 pm

        backing out of what is perceived to be a commitment to appear – lets not let The Standard’s standard only apply to one side

        • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.1
          15 April 2014 at 4:04 pm

          Was Key going to be on Cambell debating with Cunliffe? If not, there is no similarity between the two matters.

          • Tracey 1.1.1.1.1
            15 April 2014 at 4:09 pm

            dancing on the head of a pin

            • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.1.1.1
              15 April 2014 at 4:36 pm

              Bollocks. Cunliffe a) didn’t ask to be on Campbell and b) will actually do the show when a mutually suitable date can be found. Your hero, on the other hand, talked the talk, but has declined to walk the walk.

              • Enough is Enough …
                15 April 2014 at 4:47 pm

                when did he say the debate would be held?

              • Tracey …
                15 April 2014 at 4:52 pm

                lol @ you thinking john key is my hero.

                cunliffe agreed to go on the show and did a no show. you are spinning as much as you accuse righties here of doing. cunliffe made you and others look stupid. key has done the same to his.

                • Stephanie Rodgers …
                  15 April 2014 at 5:04 pm

                  There’s a very obvious difference between a no-show on something someone else instigated, and reneging on something you (i.e. Key) proposed. Especially when he proposed it to attack Cunliffe’s credibility on the topic.

                  • Tracey …
                    15 April 2014 at 5:09 pm

                    obvious yes, meaningful? not really
                    but the similarity is they both reneged, leaving those defending them looking foolish… in mr keys case hes been doing that to them since 2008.

                    • geoff …
                      15 April 2014 at 6:48 pm

                      Well the only difference I’m interested in is that the Campbell Live thing is a complete puff piece whereas a meaty debate between Key & Cunliffe over perhaps the central election issue on live tv would be a significant thing.

                    • Stephanie Rodgers …
                      15 April 2014 at 9:11 pm

                      Of course it’s meaningful. Saying ‘well the similarity is they both reneged’ is like comparing someone who accidentally uses past-expiry milk in their baking with the Borgias and saying ‘well the similarity is they both poisoned people’.

                    • Tracey …
                      16 April 2014 at 8:49 am

                      your analogy has no bearing. they both backed out… that is one thing the public will remember.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  15 April 2014 at 9:09 pm

                  Key has issued a challenge, that challenge was accepted. Key has now backed down from that challenge.

                  It’s the fact that it was a challenge issued by Key that makes Key a coward for backing down.

              • David H …
                16 April 2014 at 8:12 am

                The usual TricKey ploy. Shoot from the lip, then run, when called on your bullshite.

    • Pete George 1.2
      15 April 2014 at 4:03 pm

      Key seems to have spoken without thinking and now he’s thought and backtracked. Cunliffe seems to have spoken and thought and backtracked, twice according to Campbell.

      I’ve got more sympathy for Cunliffe on this. Bringing media into your private space is a big thing for a politician, especially when other family members are involved.

      Other party leaders have also declined his intrusion into their home life, I think Peters and Dunne turned Campbell Live down.

      I think Campbell should give the leaders options as to what sort of insight into their lives they are comfortable with, especially the choice to exclude their homes and families from public scrutiny. They get enough exposure as it is without having to give away their family and family’s privacy.

    • Tracey 1.3
      15 April 2014 at 4:05 pm

      agree. both sides leaders have made their supporters look stupid over these tv appearances.

      over on open mike james, puckish rogue and bm were crowing over what a great debater key is which is why he challenged cunliffe… now they just look foolish. cunliffe makes his defenders look stupid by not turning up. but both groups will vote for them still, and wonder why nz is going to an uncaring hell in a handbasket

      egoes rule, and apparently not for the greater good.

    • Pete George 1.4
      15 April 2014 at 4:18 pm

      Cunliffe has just been reported on this:

      TV3 has also revealed problems getting Mr Cunliffe to take part in a series in which John Campbell interviews the political leaders and their partners over a home-cooked meal, and he had pulled out of two proposed dates.

      The broadcaster began organising the series in November last year and it took two phone calls to organise the Key breakfast, at his Omaha bach with Bronagh.

      It prompted National MPs to accuse Mr Cunliffe of being “chicken” and “running scared.”

      Mr Cunliffe said he hoped to do the Campbell Live gig but was still in discussions with the broadcaster over a suitable date.

      Having previously said he was hoping New Zealanders would get to know him better, he said he was not trying to avoid pieces that touched on his personal life. “I’m looking forward to it.”

      He said the first scheduled date had to be cancelled because of a family illness. There was a misunderstanding over a second night which Campbell Live believed was confirmed but Mr Cunliffe’s office did not and had a diary conflict.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11238712

      Campbell Live have a bit of a habit of getting snarky if things don’t happen for them but whatever, it sounds like communication hasn’t been the best on this.

    • Naki Man 1.5
      15 April 2014 at 5:41 pm

      Cunliffe backed out of the interview at his home with Cambell because he realised that his lies about his home being a do up and the worst house in the best street would be exposed.

      Bob Jones says in the Herald today

      “In the office I received a call from a Labour MP friend and I expressed my concern at such dishonesty by someone who might be Prime Minister by year end. It’s the same with his line about living in the worst house in the street in one of Auckland’s plusher suburbs, he told me. In fact, he said, it’s arguably the best, the previous owners being an architect and decorator who’d completely gutted it and did an impressive rebuilding job”

      • Draco T Bastard 1.5.1
        15 April 2014 at 9:18 pm

        Stop lying.

        • Colonial Viper 1.5.1.1
          15 April 2014 at 9:23 pm

          Sociopaths don’t know how to because they don’t find the difference between truth and lies of any importance.

      • AB 1.5.2
        15 April 2014 at 9:37 pm

        Criticisms of Cunliffe for having an expensive house tell us much more about those levelling the criticism than about Cunliffe.
        What underlies the criticism is the implicit belief that people who have been financially successful can’t really care about those who are less well off. i.e. if they say they care, they must be hypocrites.

        Translated this means – no emotion or principle other than self-interest is possible or genuine. It’s nonsense, but it might just be an accurate description of the psyche of right-wingers. There is a major empathy-deficit going on with most of them.

      • Benghazi 1.5.3
        15 April 2014 at 10:32 pm

        Bob Jones’ unnamed source is Trevor Mallard. Trevor is just stirring this time with “leaks” to Bob Jones instead of his usual route to Steven Joyce. Neither Trevor or Bob has been to Cunliffe’s house. The previous owner was not an architect and decorator. The rectification works to structural walls took over six months and many trucks of concrete. But Bob’s never been one to let the facts get in the way of spreading his nastiness.

      • Pascal's bookie 1.5.4
        16 April 2014 at 8:53 am

        Bob Jones isn’t the cleverest writer out there, but it’s pretty obvious that that whole piece is an excerise in bullshit.

        See how the set up is Colin Craig and defamation and how Bob Jones thinks you should deal with bullshit in the political arena?

        Making sense yet, Naki man? Slowly dawning that maybe Jones was trying to make a point? See how he admits, right there in the piece, that he likes to bullshit about politicians?

      • Tracey 1.5.5
        16 April 2014 at 8:53 am

        can you link to bob jones berating key following all his well documented lies? thanks

      • Roy 1.5.6
        16 April 2014 at 10:09 am

        As if Bob Jones is a reliable source of information! GMAFB.

    • North 1.6
      15 April 2014 at 7:33 pm

      Pops’ I wish you’d piss off claiming to be a leftie when in truth you’re nought but a tory troll.

  2. fender 2
    15 April 2014 at 3:52 pm

    Yeah the Key is rather busy at present, he’s got his nose stuck between some royal butt cheeks..

  3. captain hook 3
    15 April 2014 at 3:58 pm

    I guess thats a no then.
    He too busy fixing his portfolio on the currency markets.

  4. karol 4
    15 April 2014 at 4:01 pm

    David Parker to John Key today in Question Time:

    Hon David Parker: Was his decision to abandon yesterday’s challenge to debate housing policy with David Cunliffe on national TV a result of overnight focus groups and polling showing—[Interruption]

    Mr SPEAKER: Order! I heard the first part of the question; I am struggling to hear the second part and I need to, so I require a little less interjection. Would the member please start his question again.

    Hon David Parker: Was the Prime Minister’s decision to abandon yesterday’s challenge to debate housing policy with David Cunliffe on national TV a result of his focus groups and polling overnight showing that New Zealanders know that his housing policy is such a shambles that he is best to leave it to Nick Smith to take the rap?

    Rt Hon JOHN KEY: For a start-off, I would be happy to debate with David Cunliffe in Parliament if he would like to turn up. That is the first thing. The second thing was I made it quite clear, actually, that we were more than happy to have that debate, which we will be having in the first debate on Television One. And if we want to get into polling, I hate to tell the Labour members but, in our polls, Labour was at 26 percent last week.

    I guess Jonkey needs a lot of time to prepare adequately for such head to head debates…?!

    • Pete George 4.1
      15 April 2014 at 4:08 pm

      Cunliffe could catch Key off guard then and turn up in Parliament tomorrow and use his Question Time on it.

      • scotty 4.1.1
        15 April 2014 at 4:32 pm

        Key – answer questions in question time?

        What parliament have you been watching for the last 6 years?

        • Tracey 4.1.1.1
          15 April 2014 at 4:56 pm

          lol… i thought it was ironic for key to make a dig about not being at question time.

        • David H 4.1.1.2
          16 April 2014 at 9:39 am

          Well at least TricKey should be there as it’s only Wednesday. However you never know with TricKey, some ‘Urgent’ business or other, may take him elsewhere. Yep real TricKey.

      • Stephanie Rodgers 4.1.2
        15 April 2014 at 5:10 pm

        Except for the pesky issue of having to notify primary questions well before Question Time begins, and supplementary questions having to be related to primary questions, and the Prime Minister’s prerogative to transfer questions to other Ministers or simply have Bill English answer them for him.

        • Pascal's bookie 4.1.2.1
          16 April 2014 at 8:56 am

          and the QT isn’t a debate, and that actual debates aren’t things the PM bothers with AFAICT.

          When was the last time the PM made a speech in a debate, on a policy issue, when he wasn’t constitutionally obliged to?

          Maybe he has, but nothing that made the news.

          • felix 4.1.2.1.1
            16 April 2014 at 6:07 pm

            Never seen it, not since he became PM.

            He has a lot of fundraising duties though and can’t be everywhere at once.

  5. Tracey 5
    15 April 2014 at 4:08 pm

    i knew he was going to pretend he meant the first debate of the campaign…

    he thought he was bullet proof cos his glamorous second family is touring but the WTF looks on his advisors faces quickly made him realise he is not actually a member of the Windsor family… the queen is very conservative but she isnt adopting dohn key anytime soon.

  6. TightyRighty 6
    15 April 2014 at 4:09 pm

    Something about not turning up to pre arranged media moments with John Campbell springs to mind when you post this Mickey. Pot, kettle and all that

    • Tracey 6.1
      15 April 2014 at 4:13 pm

      agreed. look forward to your open mike posts to bm, james and puckish rogue in the same terms. some of both leaders supporters have been made to look foolish, but they will still support their fools in chief

    • Ant 6.2
      15 April 2014 at 4:23 pm

      Bit of difference between not prioritising a fluff piece and bailing on a debate.

      • Te Reo Putake 6.2.1
        15 April 2014 at 4:33 pm

        Exactly, Ant. One’s lightweight and personality driven, the other is policy driven politics where elections can be won and lost. I think we know which Key prefers, on the whole.

  7. Markymark 7
    15 April 2014 at 4:37 pm

    Another classic half-witted post from Micky Savage, reeking full of hypocrisy (ala the Secret Trust fiasco, and the recent crony appointments post – where a commentor later astutely exposed Micky’s own dubious politicised appointments to various Crown entities)

    Do you ever think about basic stuff like stones and glass houses, before posting?

    Cunliffe has not been in the news for weeks, he has snubbed Campbell twice for interviews (i suspect because he doesn’t want South Auckland to know he is filthy rich) and now he choses to speak before a group of right wing capitalists, rather than take Key on in parliament.

    The only other news for Labour, seems to be some idiotic “truck ban”, which is supposedly the party’s new transport policy.

    I mean seriously? Is it any wonder Labour is polling at 31%??

    • Tracey 7.1
      15 April 2014 at 4:58 pm

      and you thought the best way to respond to a classic half witted post was to make a classic half witted response.

      • mickysavage 7.1.1
        15 April 2014 at 5:59 pm

        Is this a Green beat up on Cunliffe thing?

        • Tracey 7.1.1.1
          16 April 2014 at 8:57 am

          hardly. its my opinion that they have both been stupid and their supporters look stupid. you are a chicken. no you are. I said it first. no I did. it took cunliffe and his team far too long to say there was a family illness .john campbell tends to give the left a fair shake compared to others.

    • mickysavage 7.2
      15 April 2014 at 5:43 pm

      Memo from Crosby Textor

      To all RWNJS

      Code Blue

      John Key has stupidly challenged Cunliffe to a debate on housing. This is a very stupid thing to do as not only is Cunliffe a superior debater than Key but the subject is one which this Government is particularly vulnerable. We have therefore urged Key to withdraw his offer and he has done so. Even though there will be considerable repetitional damage caused this pales to what would have occurred if the debate had gone ahead.

      Any blog posts that are put up need to be countered as quickly as possible. We suggest the following:

      1. Talk about Cunliffe not wanting to have his house filmed. We know this was a mistake and we know it is utterly unrelated but it may divert attention.
      2. Attack the blog posters. Call them hypocrites because of XYZ even if it does not apply.
      3. Talk about Labour’s polling.
      4. Say Cunliffe has not been in the media for weeks even though it is of concern that he is getting some cut through.

      Finally under NO circumstances are you to debate or mention Key withdrawing the offer of a debate. This must be avoided AT ALL COSTS.

      Ends …

      • Paul 7.2.1
        15 April 2014 at 5:48 pm

        This is what happens to Key without Farrar to help him.
        Clueless.

      • Anne 7.2.2
        15 April 2014 at 6:00 pm

        PS. And if you feel those pesky TS bloggers are getting the better of you:

        Don’t forget Helen Clark”s forged painting for charity and her speeding convoy.

        Some of you are known not to be very good at thinking so: please don’t mention they happened nearly 10 years ago.

      • Naki Man 7.2.3
        15 April 2014 at 6:08 pm

        1.Talk about Cunliffe not wanting to have his house filmed. We know this was a mistake and we know it is utterly unrelated but it may divert attention

        That is bullshit read my post above

        • Paul 7.2.3.1
          15 April 2014 at 6:14 pm

          What’s more important…the issue of housing in New Zealand or the private houses of NZ’s political leaders?
          Which story is more important?
          Which one does Key and RWNJs like yourself want to avoid at all costs?

          That’s why you campaign on slogans like ‘a brighter future’ as the elite 1% that you represent doesn’t have an argument that would stand the light of day.

        • blue leopard 7.2.3.2
          15 April 2014 at 6:28 pm

          Naki Man,

          Did you mean ‘if you want to read bullshit then read my post above’?

      • TightyRighty 7.2.4
        15 April 2014 at 8:51 pm

        you got hoist with your own petard, shit even lefties are calling you on it and you start insinuating we can’t think for ourselves and we all march to the tune of crosby textor. if this is the standard of senior party officials in the labour party, you should be patting yourselves on the back for breaching 30%.

        • Tracey 7.2.4.1
          16 April 2014 at 8:59 am

          I bet housing affordability is only a small part of their first televised debate rather than THE debate

          • TightyRighty 7.2.4.1.1
            16 April 2014 at 9:07 am

            as it should only be. the government should be trying to grow wages while keeping house prices static. that way they aren’t destroying wealth and are growing incomes. might even reduce inequality as a side benefit.

      • Tracey 7.2.5
        16 April 2014 at 9:11 am

        memo to mickey savage

        you chose the tone of your post for this thread. I think for myself. always have and hope I always will.

        populuxe and I seriously disagreed over dotcom and his memorabilia and yet have agreed on some things since. adults can disagree it doesnt make it a green thing if I disagreed with you today on this. ×I× disagree with your post and how you framed it. its the stooping that turns me off politics the most… that and the my team must always be right even when wrong mentality.

  8. Tanz 8
    15 April 2014 at 4:48 pm

    But Key does not care if young Kiwis can’t buy a home, the guy is an empty suit, an ex mnney trader, he is there for selfish gains. He is playing games, simply cause he can.
    He is a commodity in politics, so transparent.

    • Naki Man 8.1
      15 April 2014 at 6:02 pm

      Young kiwis can buy a house. If they are going to cry because they can’t afford a flash house in an expensive suburb in an over priced city that is too bad. There parents first house would have been a dump by todays standards, these people need to wake up and get real.

      • Paul 8.1.1
        15 April 2014 at 6:07 pm

        Most can’t buy a house in Auckland.
        Connect yourself to reality and Maths.

        “these people need to wake up and get real.”
        What an insightful comment.
        Do you ever write without using cliches?

        • Naki Man 8.1.1.1
          15 April 2014 at 7:52 pm

          It is not compulsory to buy your first house in Auckland.
          There is nothing wrong with my maths.
          There is plenty of affordable housing in this country, when I bought my first house the mortgage interest rate went up to 20%. Young people just want to buy houses that they cant afford. Some of the young people I work with earn around $90k and they still struggle to save.
          I have no sympathy for them.

          • Populuxe1 8.1.1.1.1
            15 April 2014 at 8:20 pm

            That kind of depends where the work is, doesn’t it?

          • weka 8.1.1.1.2
            15 April 2014 at 8:52 pm

            “There is plenty of affordable housing in this country, when I bought my first house the mortgage interest rate went up to 20%”

            yeah, back in the day when you could buy a house and quarter acre for a few thousand.

            Try doing the maths dude and then presenting it here. Some actual figures. Where exactly are all these houses that someone can afford?

          • Weepu's beard 8.1.1.1.3
            15 April 2014 at 9:09 pm

            What was the average annual income to average house price ratio then, Naki Man? 1:12, like it is now? You old folk like to pick stats to show how hard it was for you in your day but the reality is much harder for today’s youth. You didn’t have to contend with foreign property speculators like we do.

          • Tracey 8.1.1.1.4
            16 April 2014 at 10:41 am

            what?????you think people should buy their first home somewhere other than they live? that makes it a property not a home.

          • Tracey 8.1.1.1.5
            16 April 2014 at 10:46 am

            my parents and in laws bought their first homes in the cities they lived. neither house was a dump.

            but a drafty, crumbling dump is what a 28 year old friend of mine just paid 520k for a 2 bed home in blockhouse bay/new lynn. my parents and in laws bought their first homes when they were 26 and 25 respectively

            on this topic naki man you are lacking knowledge.

          • Tracey 8.1.1.1.6
            16 April 2014 at 10:48 am

            ”  when I bought my first house the mortgage interest rate went up to 20% ”

            if you didnt have to sell it that probably suggests it took less of your disposable income than it does now… hence housing affordability.

            rents in auckland are crazy

        • srylands 8.1.1.2
          15 April 2014 at 7:57 pm

          Auckland has 1.4 million people. They all live in dwellings. All the dwellings are owned. So people can buy them.

          If you are concerned with affordability the policy prescriptions are well known.

          There is nothing special about houses. The restricted supply is a choice we have made as a society. Existing owners with high equity benefit from these policies. I don’t see either Labour or National taking to these folk with a stick.

          • Populuxe1 8.1.1.2.1
            15 April 2014 at 8:23 pm

            Don’t you mean that some people own a lot of houses and rent them out?

            • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.2.1.1
              15 April 2014 at 9:27 pm

              Of course that’s what he means. He’s fully in favour of rentiers taking everyone else’s wealth.

          • McFlock 8.1.1.2.2
            15 April 2014 at 8:27 pm

            You fucking tool sspylands.

            You can’t see the difference between the security of owning your own home and merely renting it. And you can’t see the difference between “Most can’t buy a house in Auckland” and ” All the dwellings are owned. So people can buy them.”

            If you really do live in Aus and NZ, that’s just proof that shit floats in a neoliberal economy.

            Meanwhile, the percentage of NZ children living in poverty has doubled since 1982.

            • Stuart Munro 8.1.1.2.2.1
              15 April 2014 at 10:38 pm

              Writers as diverse as Darwin (in In Patagonia) and Piketty have observed that owning your own home is the first step to financial independence.

              The dramatic decline in NZ home ownership reflects and reinforces the deteriorating outcomes for New Zealanders since neo-liberalism.

              As a RWNJ troll, Sorrylands will of course deny this.

          • Weepu's beard 8.1.1.2.3
            15 April 2014 at 11:05 pm

            Overseas residents have been invited to participate in this market, for whatever reason. The current government and real estate companies downplay this involvement in order to further their own ends. They (Judith Collins and her 1ZB sycophants) dismiss reports of increasing foreign speculation as anecdotal (one wonders how hard it would be to get the actual numbers). They say it’s 6% at most. Then they pull the racism card.

            Real Estate agents downplay it in order to get the latest Mercedes, and the current government downplays it in order to haul cheap money into the country to make the books look good.

            None of these people consider what a fair solution to current home owners and to future homeowners might be. Let’s hope the opposition can get a message like this across to NZ’s young.

          • Tracey 8.1.1.2.4
            16 April 2014 at 10:36 am

            moran

      • McFlock 8.1.2
        15 April 2014 at 6:16 pm

        If that’s true, why is key running away from the debate? Get labour going in to the campaign with 25%, why doesn’t he?

      • geoff 8.1.3
        15 April 2014 at 8:02 pm

        There parents first house would have been a dump by todays standards,

        I see this line all the time from the muppets like Naki Man.

        The houses of the past weren’t dumps compared to the other houses of the same era.

  9. TightyRighty 9
    15 April 2014 at 4:53 pm

    @ antz& trp, the prime minister will debate with Cunliffe. He said it would. What’s the big deal? Why is Cunliffe so scared of appearing in the media? First the msm don’t pay him enough attention, then he doesn’t need it. Shit get your stories straight

    • Tracey 9.1
      15 April 2014 at 5:00 pm

      spin baby spin… all you do is fall over and get a headache… while the rest of us get the govt you and other spinners deserve.

      • TightyRighty 9.1.1
        15 April 2014 at 8:54 pm

        rich coming from the queen of “it’s not our fault, it’s the media’s!!” i’m still waiting for the day you propose turning off the kiwipower to any media outlet that dares to present an alternative message to what you approve of.

        How’s your revolution coming along by the way?

  10. fisiani 10
    15 April 2014 at 5:00 pm

    John Key will wipe the floor with The Cunliffe like he did with Shearer. Goff and Clark.

    • Enough is Enough 10.1
      15 April 2014 at 5:15 pm

      Clark destroyed Key on every occasion.

      Goff didn’t have any internal support but stood his ground to Key.

      Mumblefuck was well….you have me there.

      • fisiani 10.1.1
        15 April 2014 at 7:14 pm

        Which was why support for Key rose after every debate. He totally wiped the floor with Klark.
        He blew away Goof -Show me the money!!!
        Shearer nuff said.
        The Cunliffe is despise by two thirds of his own caucus because he is a pretentious git.
        Come on. Labour’s poll figures will only get worse especially after today’s clustertruck.

        • McFlock 10.1.1.1
          15 April 2014 at 9:35 pm

          And yet key is still reluctant to step into the ring with him.
          By the sounds of it, he could dispatch cunliffe in five minutes before tea. And yet he’s putting it off. Why?

    • McFlock 10.2
      15 April 2014 at 5:21 pm

      well, why suddenly wait until the campaign?

      He talks the talk, but key backs away when called on it.

  11. irascible 11
    15 April 2014 at 5:27 pm

    When Key issued his challenge to Cunliffe my immediate reaction was that immediately Cunliffe accepted Key would do his usual bluff, bluster, smnile and scuttle and run routine that uses whenever the going gets hard or his bluff is called. Key knows he has no credibility except as either a BBQ cook on a throwaway show or as a performing monkey at fund raising diiners for Chinese Milk companies or fringe support groups that he needs to buy in order to find support in Parliament. A debate with Cunliffe would simply exposehim to a scrutiny he does not want and can illafford to allow.

    • srylands 11.1
      15 April 2014 at 8:00 pm

      Seriously it is 5 months to the election. Who wants political debates now? Keymay have been unwise to have made the comment. But you should recognise that and understand you are being stupid by seriously suggesting such a debate should happen at this time. It was never going to happen. So stop pretending this is a backdown.

      • McFlock 11.1.1
        15 April 2014 at 8:29 pm

        Where’s the law that says we’re only allowed to see the mettle of our leadership for two months in every three years?

        Key’s a bar-room bully, full of bluster but in reality a fucking coward. I saw a hundred of him when I worked hospo.

      • Puddleglum 11.1.2
        15 April 2014 at 9:17 pm

        So you agree that Key was lying – since, according to you, EVERYONE knows that we won’t be having any debates now?

        This is pathetic. Key’s comment (quoted in the post) clearly indicated that he was responding to Cunliffe’s suggestion that the two debate housing affordability NOW. Read it.

        That’s also why Key said “let’s call it the first debate” – ‘call it the first debate’; think about that. Notice that he is NOT referring to the ‘first debate in the campaign.

        Key made the comment, was told in no uncertain terms by his minders that it was stupid of him to have done so and now he’s backed down. It was a discursive ploy that just backfired on him.

        End of story.

        Sometimes I get really irritated with the twisting of the plainly obvious.

      • Tracey 11.1.3
        16 April 2014 at 9:04 am

        seemingly mr key did slylands. thats who wanted a debate now until it was pointed out it takes 5 months of pre paring questions and training before key can “debate”

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.4
        16 April 2014 at 9:20 am

        We’re not pretending – it’s obviously a back down on Key’s part.

        And there’s no reason why a debate can’t happen now – everyone knows that we’re already into electioneering mode.

  12. Paul 12
    15 April 2014 at 5:37 pm

    And the Herald frames it this way.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11238712

    “David Cunliffe has dismissed claims he is running scared from John Key and playing hard to get over a Campbell Live series featuring political leaders at home.”

    This is why the left should challenge the media’s bias.

    • Olwyn 12.2
      15 April 2014 at 8:57 pm

      What a load of crap! This is a “leaders at home” thing – not a politically daring move to be explained, or anything like it. Running scared of what? Having his mayonnaise split in front of the camera? Forgetting to tidy up the living room for the grand occasion? Put this alongside the nonsense about Key’s supposedly being great mates with the royals, and it looks as if the NZ Herald is trying to drive the election debate along the lines of a high school popularity contest.

      • Draco T Bastard 12.2.1
        16 April 2014 at 9:23 am

        and it looks as if the NZ Herald is trying to drive the election debate along the lines of a high school popularity contest.

        that’s what it is trying to do.

    • Tracey 12.3
      16 April 2014 at 9:01 am

      its not key at home. tv3 should be taken to the comm comm for misleading and deceptive conduct. just bow many nights did key sleep there in the last 12 months. 6 years?

  13. captain hook 13
    15 April 2014 at 5:38 pm

    yes key is a real boss type.
    great when issuing the orders when he is holding the purse strings but a gutless piece of crap unable to go toe to toe with anyone on a level playing field.

  14. ianmac 14
    15 April 2014 at 5:41 pm

    Regardless of the outcome of a housing debate, the message to viewers would be that David exists and is important enough to debate with Key. Pity that Key chickened out really as David would have more to gain in the big picture. (I think that Davids low personal polling is more because he is yet largely unknown to the masses.)

  15. aj 15
    15 April 2014 at 6:09 pm

    Ref Key’s housing claim in parliament today

    ‘Labour 50% over 9 yrs, us only 25% in 6’

    What would this be in dollar terms per annum I wonder. Starting from a much higher base value than in 2001, I wouldn’t be surprised if National’s 25% was a larger annual number.

    • Paul 15.1
      15 April 2014 at 6:16 pm

      Both are neoliberal parties.

    • fisiani 15.2
      15 April 2014 at 9:10 pm

      Labour 100% over 9 years actually

      • aj 15.2.1
        15 April 2014 at 10:22 pm

        To answer my own question. Not using any particular figures, since they vary from region to region, but these illustrate the fallacy of National’s spin on housing prices:

        Labour rise 50%

        Start $350,000.00 End $525,000.00 Total rise $175,000.00

        = $19,444.44 per yr for 9 years

        National rise 25%

        Start $525,000.00 End $656,250.00 Total rise $131,250.00

        = $21,875.00 per yr for 6 years (it’s not even 6, actually so this figure will be higher)

        Use any of the regions with highest prices and you’ll find the outcome is similar. House prices have risen considerably more quickly under National than they did under Labour.

        • ianmac 15.2.1.1
          15 April 2014 at 10:34 pm

          Tricky John likes to use percentages to mislead.

        • Herodotus 15.2.1.2
          16 April 2014 at 2:35 pm

          Links to you data source, or is it made up??
          http://www.knowledgeauckland.org.nz/knowledgeAuckland/app_templates/download.cfm?id=4388C699-145E-173C-98D0-7E3548597DA9
          1999 = 229,500
          2008 = 440,000
          92% increase
          Then if we use affordability index that takes into consideration interest rates this peaked under the last labour govt.
          Such a debate is useless 2 rich guys from political parties that are unwilling to find solutions that have a real day to day impact on the voter ( unless you are a multi property owner).
          Don’t kid yourself labour has as many valid solutions to the problem as national. Only the cheer leaders here are unable to see with both eyes open.
          http://www.interest.co.nz/property/house-price-income-multiples
          The drop in affordability was attributed to the dramatic reduction of interest rates after the GFC nothing to do with any govts policies.

          • aj 15.2.1.2.1
            16 April 2014 at 6:38 pm

            Did you read my post?
            “Not using any particular figures”

            I am using Key’s percentage values for the sake of comparing apples with apples. I am demonstrating that it is possible to draw completely valid and different conclusions from his own arguement

            • Herodotus 15.2.1.2.1.1
              16 April 2014 at 10:28 pm

              Well your example had no basis of reality, so the example isnd conclusions are worthless.
              Did have a laugh of MS’s link of David trying to be ascertive on TV re CGT. Pity it is all bluster, if labour was real then a cgt would be pitched at the top tax rate and claim able expenses would be revisited. IMO by pitching it at a level below the lowest PAYE tax rate it demonstrates that labour is still protecting those multi property owners. So these owners can still claim interest and other expenses that a owner occupier is unable to, still allowing advantages to this same group as david is painting as the cause of the problem. Croc tears are bring shed.

              • aj …
                17 April 2014 at 8:21 am

                I’m happy for readers to take what they might out of it,
                The ‘reality’ is that using John Key’s own statistics – no matter what number you wish to use as a base starting point – prices have risen more quickly on an annual basis under the National government than under Labour.

  16. tc 16
    15 April 2014 at 7:05 pm

    Farken depressing, in democracies of old if the PM even sighed such a suggestion the msm would bully him into keeping his/her word asap.

    Then we’d all enjoy the machinations of a working democracy and maybe learn something about these folk that want to govern us etc etc

    Key knows he can say any old shit and his mates cover up the cock ups with spin and diversion.

  17. dave 17
    15 April 2014 at 8:56 pm

    so slippery gets the white feather award for 2014 hes yella

  18. captain hook 18
    15 April 2014 at 10:38 pm

    yeah he is a big cream puff witth a yellow streeeak.

  19. ffloyd 19
    16 April 2014 at 7:34 am

    Moonwalk away while singing “they call me mellow yellow”

  20. Roy 20
    16 April 2014 at 10:13 am

    It seems to me the most likely thing is that Key, being a cocky idiot, went off-script and laid down the challenge, but then his minders told him to STFU.

  21. the voter 21
    18 April 2014 at 1:06 pm

    Got a NEW INITIAL for Key’s first name, F

  22. Martin 22
    21 April 2014 at 11:40 am

    book book book book bookAAARK!