Cohen Testifies: LIVE

Written By: - Date published: 7:44 am, February 28th, 2019 - 106 comments
Categories: Donald Trump, International, us politics - Tags: ,

Donald Trump’s former attorney Michael Cohen is testifying to the House Oversight Committee.

Cohen has claimed that Trump is a racist, lying conman. Significantly, Cohen claims Trump knew in advance of Wikileaks’ intervention in the election. He says that information was confirmed by Roger Stone.

The best line so far comes from Democrat Jamie Raskin to Cohen about Republican’s grandstanding:

“Our colleagues aren’t upset because you lied to Congress for the president, they’re upset because you stopped lying.”

The Guardian has a summary of Cohen’s testimony so far here.

Cohen has provided documentation of illegal payments to women Trump had affairs with here.

Live coverage here.

And via Youtube below:


106 comments on “Cohen Testifies: LIVE”

  1. Andre 1

    To the surprise of precisely zero sentient beings anywhere in the entire universe, the questions Repugs asked had nothing at all to do with the turd tornado currently spattering the walls of the Oval Office and focused entirely on Cohen’s own previously admitted crimes, lies and other misbehaviour. All the best people …

  2. Adrian Thornton 2

    As usual Cohen tells us nothing that we didn’t already know (although now with a bit more salacious detail) namely that Trump is the complete prick, a full blown racist, unfaithful in his relationships, a serial lair etc etc…isn’t it strange then that this non story would would take the lead over Trump meeting with Kim Jong Un, which is actually real news…just shows how low brow our media has got.

    • The Al1en 2.1

      A “non story” you say. “Low brow” media. Well colour me surprised 😆

      • Sam 2.1.1

        Ha. Y’know if Trump had of been a kind, abolitionist, faithful to his wife and told the truth so help him God. We would have a different president right now. Guys still learnt zip nada from Trump and BREXIT.

        • left_forward

          Trying to understand – are you saying that the Trump and Brexit phenomena demonstrates that there is a large part of the US and UK electorates that want leaders who are unkind, pro-slavery, unfaithful, blindly religious, and lie?
          Or are you being ironic or sarcastic? – hard to tell.

          • The Al1en

            That AT thinks it’s a non issue and blames the media. I should have written quelle surprise and added a roll eyes.

            • left_forward

              No, I understood what ‘The Al1en’ was saying, and liked your turn of phrase.
              Trying to ‘learn’ what Samwise from Bagends is on about.

              • The Al1en

                Oops, comment tree fail.

              • Sam

                Adrian’s been banned. There’s usually a rush to get some free hits in while they can’t respond. Is a dick move really.

                • The Al1en

                  That comeback only works if you know someone has been banned when you post, but I’m sure AT will find comfort in your defence.
                  Regardless, it’s nothing I haven’t posted before, and no doubt will find further cause to do so again.

                  • Sam

                    I’ll admit I use Trump as a stick to beat woke social justice worriers with because Hillary stole the presidency from Bernie Sanders. Social Justice Worriors go nuclear in any message board I’m on. Is glorious.

                    • The Al1en

                      Whatever floats your sinking dinghy

                    • Sam

                      If a Green Party member funded there (gender not assumed of course) own campaign, became prime minister, stopped the Korean War, lowered unemployment, stimulated the economy through tax cuts, members of the standard would call that person a hero.

                    • Gabby

                      Woky woky?
                      That you sanky?

                    • left_forward

                      Pretty limp stick… I didn’t feel anything.
                      What have you got against social justice FFS?

                    • Sam

                      This could be huge. Seems project Veritas has uncovered an American Cambridge analytica. Sorry, no putins bots>>>

                    • JohnSelway

                      “If a Green Party member funded there (gender not assumed of course) own campaign, became prime minister, stopped the Korean War, lowered unemployment, stimulated the economy through tax cuts, members of the standard would call that person a hero.”

                      *Trump didn’t self fund his campaign (he did put some of his own money in)
                      *Trump hasn’t stopped N. Korea doing what it has always done and he certainly didn’t stop a war
                      *The tax cuts are going to add billions, then trillions to the national debt. That isn’t “stimulating the economy through tax cuts”

                      What else ya got?

                    • joe90

                      project Veritas

                      But did wee Jimmy O’Keefe and the Project Veritas truthiness crew use his novel journalism kit to expose the truth?

                      CNN is doing a documentary on the three or four people who are young American conservative activists, so they decided they would follow around that criminal James O’Keefe, the guy who made those ACORN videos and tried to rape Mary Landrieu’s phones. But you know the one thing theyweren’t expecting? They weren’t expecting James O’Keefe to try to lure CNN reporter Abbie Boudreau alone onto a boat filled with dildos and lube and a “condom jar” and “fuzzy handcuffs” and “an obvious sex tape machine,” so this is precisely what he did. Presumably it was to record himself raping her, of course, but O’Keefe says it was just a goof. Huh


                      Also included in this story? This hilarious list of items in the boat!

                      Equipment needed
                      a. Video
                      1. hidden cams on the boat
                      2. tripod and overt recorder near the bed, an obvious sex tape machine
                      b. Props
                      1. condom jar
                      2. dildos
                      3. Music
                      a. Alicia keys
                      b. 80s romance songs, things that are typically James
                      c. avoid Marvin Gaye as too cliche
                      4. lube
                      5. ceiling mirror
                      6. posters and paintings of naked women
                      7. playboys and pornographic magazines
                      8. candles
                      9. Viagra and stamina pills
                      10. fuzzy handcuffs
                      11. blindfold

                      Looks like journalism to us, James O’Keefe


                    • Sam

                      The implication is Zucks lied to congress.

          • Sam

            Let me see if I can illustrate it for the normie verse.

            Ok so New Zealand, 1984, inflation at 17%-20% (want accuracy check your dam self) that produced a narrative for talking heads to sell there policy perscrtions and get out of debt. Since then inflation has gone from the top right hand corner to the bottom left, so that’s produced a narrative in which people live there lives, work, have a family, so going from housing price for example at 3 times the average to 10 times the average wage today. Now that inflation is at the bottom the graph, it’s going to head back up. That’s called the inversion narrative. So if your policy prescriptions ain’t resonanting and your poking in the ones and tens then flip your set of policies upside down and change your fortunes from let’s say for example.

            Labour under Andrew little (guy) was polling 20% when he resigned. 7 or 10 weeks later they where poling 40% under Jacinda (girl) So inverted. I don’t expect below 120 IQ individuals would understand.

    • left_forward 2.2

      Well, I for one am 100 times more interested in this than the KJU meet.

  3. JohnSelway 3

    An admitted liar talks about another liar.

    I approach everything and anyone connected to Trump with cynicism. Hard to see the truth through all the murkiness.

  4. joe90 4

    Cohen was the deputy finance chair for the RNC until last June.

    Image the goodies he dished up to negotiate 3 years in prison down from the maximum he was facing.

    • joe90 4.1


      • RedLogix 4.1.1

        And that has a very strongly authentic feel to me. It could be a sophisticated play; but either way it’s fundamentally true.

    • Sabine 4.2

      yes, that too, someone should have touched on that today, if only for the laughs.

      “Here, for example, is one of the messages the Republican National Committee published to Twitter this morning:

      “Michael Cohen is a convicted felon who has consistently engaged in deceptive and misleading criminal behavior including tax evasion, lying to financial institutions, and lying to Congress.”

      Every word of that, for what it’s worth, is completely true. It’s one of several items published by the RNC this morning – some of which were more accurate than others – targeting Trump’s former fixer across multiple media platforms.

      There’s just one important detail the RNC keeps overlooking: up until fairly recently, Cohen used to enjoy a prominent leadership role with the Republican National Committee.

      As regular readers may recall, in April 2017, the RNC issued a press release introducing the members of its finance team. Casino mogul Steve Wynn would serve as the Republican National Committee’s finance chairman, while Elliott Broidy and Michael Cohen were among a small handful of Republicans who would serve as national deputy finance chairmen.

      Wynn was forced to resign from the RNC earlier this year following sexual misconduct allegations. (The RNC refused to return his money.)

      Broidy, who’s at the center of multiple, ongoing controversies, also resigned in the wake of an unrelated sex scandal.

      And then there’s Cohen – the “convicted felon who has consistently engaged in deceptive and misleading criminal behavior including tax evasion, lying to financial institutions, and lying to Congress” – who stepped down from RNC post just eight months ago.

      When Republican National Committee officials turn their rhetoric guns on Cohen, the party is targeting one of their own.”

  5. Peter 5

    I would’ve been prepared to bet $US413 million that the Republicans at the hearing would go on about lying and how it was a really terrible thing and how you can’t trust liars.

    Pity The Don was away and occupied, he’d have taken the bet. He’d have paid his mob $50 million to not take that line and he’d come out with a big profit.

  6. News Flash…American President exposed as a Racist Sexist Adulterer…how can that be…he’s an AMERICAN for Gods sake…

    I for one am shattered, absolutely shattered.

    I think its time we all just made that leap and decided Hilary Clinton is now the President of America. We can maybe send in some medical aid to the South to try and win over any resistance. Maybe hook in to the agency that did the awesome facebook posts for Russia that totally blew the election. I’m sure they are available for hire.

    • left_forward 6.1

      Trying to make sense of this – I guess you are saying that it is not relevant to you whether Trump is racist, sexist or an adulterer – what’s new in America?
      I cannot make any sense of your last para though – I haven’t a clue what you are saying, but can only guess from your previous posts on this subject that it is related to the crowd pleaser chant heard at the Trumpist rallies.

      • Siobhan 6.1.1

        swoooosh!!!…the sound of anything other than the most simplistic world view flying over left-forwards head…

        • left_forward

          Ooh, I got that Siobhan. Not helpful though – I haven’t got a doubt that the opposite to what you might call simplistic has indeed flown over my head.
          I was just being honest that I couldn’t work out what you were saying – happy to go back to my gardening if you can’t be bothered trying to explain yourself.

          • Siobhan

            ah, sorry if i misunderstood a genuine query….I had hoped you were being facetious to save my very long winded explanation…The second paragraph was pure sarcasm, but with a serious message.

            The sarcasm bit being I have zero desire to see Hilary as POTUS…I would rather Bernie, in fact if I were to write the answer again I’d say “Bernie’, but I was signaling my ‘tone’.

            The second point I was making, the desire of some to decide who the ‘true’ winner of an election is. Mainly to decide that the person who actually won is somehow a mistake when its not the ‘right’ person.
            Be that Maduro in Venezuela, or Trump in America.
            A situation made even more farcical when you have the Liberals on board with Trump, the ‘stealer’ of the Presidency, accusing another leader of ‘stealing’ power.

            Point three…America is heading towards Developing (devolving) nation status thanks to the mismanagement of both Democratic and Republican governance. Its just a matter of time before a foreign power gets in their and starts bribing the poor with aid and political propoganda.

            In fact, people who believe Russia interfered effectively and decisively with the US election should maybe stop crying foul over the interference (after all America is the master of foreign interference)..and instead start a bit of soul searching as to why that interference would find such ready and clearly desperate takers in one of the wealthiest nations in the world.

            Have fun in the garden…I’ve just put down my first wave of Autumn veggies after a disastrous run with the tomatoes this year…

            • left_forward

              Thank you for taking the time to explain.
              It is sometimes a challenge to navigate between the literal and the facetious and the sacasm / irony.
              I have no doubt that Russia intefered with the US election and that Trump is a conman, but I can still hold this view without being naive about US imperialism and intrinsic hypocracy.
              I think it is time way over time to move on from hilary however and get over what happened in the last democratic primaries.

              I will be planting my winter veges soon too – tomatoes were OK this summer.

              • Siobhan

                I think it is time way over time to move on from hilary however and get over what happened in the last democratic primaries…. I would love to agree…however Hilary was simply a manifestation of a deeper malaise… I can Guarantee a tedious replay of last years DNC and MSM shenanigans should Bernie look like a likely candidate.

    • francesca 6.2

      Very good Siobhan
      After all, we would be restoring democracy wouldn’t we , just like the US and allies are doing in Venezuela
      And what kind of fascist regime is it that over decades denies its poorer citizens medical care?
      The outrage!
      Time to push shipments from Russia and China and breach the Mexican border

  7. Ad 7

    Nice quote from a CNN columnist:

    “The takeaway that is emerging: People are getting involved in their democracy because they still believe it can be a pathway to change.

    Indeed, the most exciting and telling story of America at this moment is not who’s running, but how many people are throwing their hats in the ring. One logical explanation: Donald Trump has eroded our institutions and our trust in the presidency. But he may also have, perversely, increased many Americans’ collective dedication to the democratic process.”

    Terrible pathway to a US political renewal, but here it is.

    • RedLogix 7.1

      Yes, the remarkable thing about the USA is that they may yet emerge from this crisis bloodied but unbowed.

      There is nothing I can say about Trump that has not already been said, except that I still think he was a necessary circuit breaker. Sanders would have been a far more benign President, but either way the US was going to vote for an outsider.

      Trump is finished, there will now be serious momentum to impeach. The big question is what next? The cultural conversation is extremely vibrant and the outcome is not obvious.

      • Anne 7.1.1

        I still think he was a necessary circuit breaker.

        That is starting to look like it’s true but imo it was pure coincidence. He was not foreseen as a “circuit breaker” by anyone at the time, and I’m sure it wasn’t why people voted for him.

        The person on this site who probably came the closest to defining Trump was CV
        (Colonel Viper) but he went several steps too far and copped a permanent ban.

        • RedLogix

          I was working in Canada at the time, and the majority of people I spoke with either expected Trump to win, or were not surprised he did. And subsequently I’ve had some really interesting conversations with Trump voters on why they went with a President they all acknowledge is a deeply flawed man.

          The best way to look at that election was not left Vs right, but insider Vs outsider. In that light it makes perfect sense.

        • Andre

          Was CV’s ban permanent? I had thought it was for one year, and his time to get let out of the naughty room is coming up really soon.

          If that’s so, maybe we should have a pool on how long it takes him to earn a trip back to the naughty room.

          • RedLogix

            I am aware that CV’s life has expanded in the past year and I’ve no sense that he’s either interested, nor has the time to participate at the same level he did in the past.

            Plus he’s aware that on too many occasions he didn’t step back when it would have been wiser to do so; but then I’m on record as being strongly critical of the moderation regime in play at the time. It was not a good combination.

            If CV does choose to return I’d like to think we might engage on the merit of his ideas, rather than personality driven mobbings.

            • left_forward

              If you think that commentators being critical of the rubbish he usually spouts (being an even more manic combo of Gooseman, Shadders, and BM) is personality driven then get ready for more mobbings.

            • Sabine

              Trump being an outsider? yeah, right Tui.

              Trump is the republican party, he is the only logical conclusion to the shit that went down in the last two years of the Obama Presidency + the 8 years under Bush the younger. But the two years of Mitch McConnell not appointing Judges, 115 open positions to be precise, one Supreme Court Judge – maybe two if I could see Ruth Bader Ginsburg having retired if Judges would have been nominated, gotten their hearing and then appointed – is what will transform the US in the image of the godly republicans..
              I think its time to admit that Trump is only where he is because the Republican Party allows him to be. Not because they don’t know that he is a cheat, a conman, a raw dogger, tax fraud, insurance fraud, and racist, but simply because he is. He is all that stuff that many would like to be if only they were allowed by morals, not constraint by lack of money, by status. And so as long as he appoints judges, cuts taxes, screams build that fucking wall that Mexico ain’t paying for, screams punish those women for having sex without being married, etc they are not going to do anything about him. Because he does what they want him to do. In the meantime he gets to loot the treasure for personal gain, gets to house foreign dignitaries in his hotels for personal gain, gets hist trade mark in china – i like the Trump Escorts 🙂 – and so on.

              And i really really enjoy the whinging of Trump voters that are finally waking up to the realism of still having to pay taxes (especially those in the blue states… talk about being taken to the milking shed), of still being only ‘white trash’, of not getting jobs, of loosing their medicare cause they now have to work to get it in an economy that does not have jobs, and so on. Voters beware, voting has consequences and it is only ever the voter who pays the bills.

              Trump will be dead when the Republican Party has no more use for him. Until then he can pretend to be President of the US.

            • veutoviper

              Well said RL.

        • KJT

          A circuit breaker is exactly why many people voted for Trump.

          Same as we voted 1984 Labour out, after only two terms.

          And why we supported MMP.

          Unfortunately, National just continued with the wrecking ball.

      • JohnSelway 7.1.2

        “Yes, the remarkable thing about the USA is that they may yet emerge from this crisis bloodied but unbowed.”

        Who knows – that might also learn a lesson and change some aspects of the social and economic policy (as well as the presidency itself) so this sort of shit doesn’t happen again

      • Stuart Munro 7.1.3

        I’m not too sure about the unbowed bit.

        America’s time as hegemon is coming to an end. There’s an awful lot of Asian capital propping up the illusion of the US economy, and other competing states have for the most part more functional ruling cabals even without considering the tangerine nightmare.

        I’m not too sure how the diehard MAGA fans will take impeachment, but I wouldn’t expect them to lose their liking for Trump overnight, conspiracy theories and deep state narratives seem to be a more instinctive response for them.

        • JohnSelway

          “America’s time as hegemon is coming to an end.”

          It might not be over yet and it might pull through but it is definitely teetering on the brink

          • Bewildered

            I disagree the 21dt century as was the 20th Will be the US century Thr US does not need the world it just keeps o. keeping on, Who is in Washington does not really matter that much by way of their constitution, 3 levels of government and the Supreme Court in regard to division and checks on power
            This is unlike China Russia, Germany Turkey France etc where who is in power and the state has s massive influence China is basically rooted it can’t afford or consume what it manufactures so is highly reliant on global trade , it low cost advantages has basically ran its course and is now favi the reality of totalitarianism and pseudo capitalism doesn’t reality work The party and its leaders are shitting bricks it will all fall apart if can’t msinysin stability with growth Hence it bowing to US pressure and increase totalitarin authority at home to suppress dissent Russia is just a third world petro state with Nukes run by gangsters pretending they are something they are not ) their eco pay is not much bigger mthsn Californis The Us by far is the predominant world power militsry , financially and scientifically, it is also the most robust in regard to managing shocks , recalibrating ( think 2 world ests, Korean? Loosing Vietnam war, 1930 depression, GFC, Cold War, JFk assanation, Nixon and watergate…..) and keeps on keeping on In essence it is not perfect but is the zenith of western civilisation, Christian and Judean thought and ethics that just happens to better than anything else

            • Stuart Munro

              A bit hard to follow, mate, the odd paragraph break wouldn’t hurt.

              It’s true that it may take a lot to bring the US down, but it has been being hollowed out for quite a while – Trump is just the latest maggot rattling around in the carcass.

              But you’re feeling it yourself – you think the US is the zenith of western civ – well, after the zenith things decline. Might take awhile, Rome declined for centuries before it got sacked. But the US ain’t what it used to be – part of the reason MAGA resonated with punters.

  8. joe90 8

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, prepared, focused and direct. So much for her being out of her depth, or worse.

  9. Macro 9

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders Warns Michael Cohen to Leave Lying to Professionals
    WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—As he prepared to testify to Congress on Wednesday, the former Trump lawyer Michael D. Cohen received a thorough scolding from the White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who warned Cohen to “leave lying to the professionals.”

    “You probably think you can step up to the microphone and lie like it’s the easiest thing in the world,” she said. “Well, you should try doing it each and every day, and then tell me how easy it is.”

    Sanders drew a sharp distinction between professional liars who take pride in their work and liars like Cohen, whom she called “strictly amateur.”

    “Michael Cohen has never demonstrated that he is willing to put in the hard work, practice, and sheer drudgery of becoming a great liar,” she said. “This is definitely one of those ten-thousand-hours things.”

    She said she hoped if American children watch Cohen’s “pathetic performance” before Congress that they do not get the wrong idea about America’s liars. “Kids need to know that there are many well-trained and highly professional liars in this country, and many of them are right here in the White House,” she said.

      • Macro 9.1.1

        I find Andy Borowitz always good to read. Not only is he very funny, but he “nails it” as some here used to say.

        • greywarshark

          Looked up Andy Borowitz – good.

          “I propose a Constitutional Amendment requiring a President to be a taxpayer.” -Andy Borowitz

          “Next time someone says, ‘Where has big government ever gotten us?’ the correct answer is ‘Mars.'”

          “When Tea Partyers say, “I want my country back,” ask if they can identify it on a map.”

          “As we go from Abraham Lincoln to Theodore Roosevelt to Mitt Romney, I now understand why the Republicans don’t believe in evolution.”

          “If you buy your July 4 supplies at Walmart you can celebrate our independence from Britain and our dependence on China at the same time.”

          “Under Obamacare, to qualify for benefits you will be forced to smoke medical marijuana until you are gay.” — Republican talking point

          “Let’s withdraw from Afghanistan and have the army invade America – that’s the only way we’ll get new schools and roads.”

          “We invaded Afghanistan to find bin Laden. We found him in Pakistan, and we’re still in Afghanistan. We need better GPS.”

          • Macro

            Here is his latest.

            Mueller Says He Has Obtained Trump’s SAT Scores
            By Andy Borowitz

            WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—The special counsel’s office has obtained Donald J. Trump’s long-suppressed SAT scores, Robert Mueller confirmed on Thursday.

            After the SAT results were retrieved, a forensics lab examined the microscopic scores and positively identified them as Trump’s, the special counsel explained.

            Mueller said that he did not seek Trump’s SAT scores because he thought that they would have any bearing on his investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election. “My team has been putting in long hours and working very, very hard,” he said. “I just thought they deserved a good laugh.”

            Although he refused to divulge Trump’s exact SAT scores, Mueller hinted that they did reflect well on Trump in one respect. “From these SATs, it’s evident that he did not cheat off anyone else’s paper,” he said.

  10. greywarshark 10

    Ware – word whoopsy. I keep seeing testify and think for some reason ‘testicle’.
    Then I thought ‘What a balls-up’. The mind jumps from one thing to another sometimes.

  11. Peter 11

    Elijah Cummings summed up with a lot to reflect on.

    He spoke to us and our ways with his ‘back to normal.’ Was there a ever a normal when the National Party Dirty Politics and Jason Ede would have enraged the nation?

    Was there ever a normal when such a threat to our democracy would have been cheered and championed by ordinary people?

  12. I am rapidly coming to the opinion that Hiliary Clinton is the legitimate president of the United States.

    Unlike that bloke in Venezuela, she did contest the election, and won more votes than Trump.

    If the yanks can declare him (whatever his name is – of Venezuela) the legitimate president, then I think I’m quite within my rights to state Hiliary is the winner of the 2017 election.

    I now call on all states to impose sanctions on the USA to help rid the American people of this blot to democracy, who has no legitimacy.


    • McFlock 12.1


      Two more years. The world has survived this long with dolt45, and I suspect now knows how to contain him.

      • Sabine 12.1.1

        no they don’t.

        they have no idea what to do with trump and it would be foolish to say they do.
        it would be equally foolish to pretend that in 2020 should the orange turd loose that he will concede and make way for a peaceful transisiton.

        i am amazed how people believe that the president sets the agenda, he does not. its senate and congress, and so as long as he has the senate he can pretty much do what he wants.

        • McFlock

          Pelosi showed different.

          But more importantly, world leaders know to ignore him if they don’t want anything from him, and simply to flatter him to get him to roll over.

          There had been a real risk that international leaders would take his bluster seriously, especially comparing button sizes with NK. We all got past that, and now he’s just a joke to US enemies, and a vacuum to US allies.

          • Sabine

            flattery gets you now where with the short fingered vulgarian unless it comes with a big fat check and his name in gold letters, that is what world leaders learned.
            Pelosi can do diddly squat without the senate. she can pass resolution upon resolution but if it does not pass senate, nothing is going to happen. nada, zilch, nix.
            international leaders are taking his bluster serious as the bluster is nothing more then smokescreen and mirrors.
            the current lot is extremely apt at affirming judges, 154 + 1 supreme court + the replacement for Justice Thomas should they get him to resign. that is just the one thing, then the stacking of every department with republican loyalists, forced birthers, climate change deniers, party planners and neuro -surgegions for public housing, etc etc etc. And no matter what the US in two years time will be changed until the last one of these very conservative, very christian evangelic white male anti abortion anti family planning anti public education pro corporation are people judges are dead or retired.

            It is the left that is so happy to scream incompetence, but don’t they see, but don’t they understand, they are this dumb/stupid etc etc that don’t see that are to blind to see what is happening. While you are discussing what they say, you are not paying attention to what they do. The alternative that you discuss is alternative to them, the alternative they create is the only one that matters.

            i said it before the election of the shitstain, he is one thing, but he company he keeps is truly frightening.

            but then, there are those that don’t care about these things, they just want the system shook up, destroyed even, and any collateral damage is just to bad, right?

            • McFlock

              That which executive power creates, executive power can tear asunder.

              What Pelosi has done is put the brakes on legislative change, and showed him to be weak at the same time.

              And as for world leaders, in the beginning it looked like he might nuke NK. Then they found out that if they made it looked like he’d won, he’d make concessions no US president has made in 60 years.

              So yeah, his political appointments are corrupt fuckbuckets. They serve at the pleasure of the fuckbucket in chief. When he goes, they go.

              • Sacha

                They all serve at the pleasure of big donors like the Kochs.

              • Sabine

                yep, that is what we are saying here, right?

                how well is that going in MBIE? or any of the other areas where loyalty to the Nationalistas were more important then serving the public. The damage is done, and will take more then one serve of Labour to fix. And the same counts for the US, which is a much larger country, more volatile i would add, and just for good measure is armed with nukes, and is the only country so far that has used them.

                ‘when he goes’ – should be ‘if he goes. I have yet to be convinced that he would go should he loose. the only way i see him going is the republicans cutting him loose because he served the cause and now is surplus or he dies in the arms of his daughter wife and she will be Queen Ivanka.

                And those judges? They are for live. and they will bring the gifts of the orange vulgarian for a long time to come.

                • McFlock

                  Comparing MBIE with a US presidential appiontment is farcical.

                  In NZ, we have governance separation. They’re nats because they’re high-income upper middle class folks far removed from any income worries their parents had.

                  In the US, the problem officials are literally picked by each president. Many go through hearings, but they are explicitly politcal appointments.

                  When he goes is a maximum of six years from now. That’s the beauty of constitutional term limits.

                  Yes, judicial appointments at all levels are a problem. But the main problem are the elected repugs who have overextended themselves with their support for dolt45. That’s why they lost the House. In two years a lot of senate republicans are up for re-election.

                  Shit is still bad, but it’s much better than it was two years ago.

                  • Sabine

                    i don’t compare.

                    I used a symbol. MBIE is a government agency that at best provides a needed services to the country, for which we are funding it, or at its worst is staffed by Party flunkies that uses the office to advance their own needs. Which has happened under National, which Labour now has a short time to reverse, and then when National is back in power cause it will – there will always be a new generation of greed heads that want tax cuts for their lifestyle, after all pulling boats across the country side to find a cheap affordable body of water has its costs.

                    The only things special about the US is that they have nukes, are readying themselves to build more, and have a shortfingered vulgarian who might press that button just to once more be able to have a stiffy and feel young and virile.

                    As for ‘packing’ no, many of the grunt workers and middle managers in the US go through many governments of all stripes irrespective of who is running. It is the head of the agency and higher management that can be changed, and often is. And currently the swamp was moved in bigly, and this damage will take many many years to undo.

                    I say it again, the “left” looses because they believe their own bullshit. You still think that the ‘rule of law’ means something, you still think that in two years time someone has an election, you still think that there will be a peaceful transition of power? Based on what? The right wins, because they have only a few goals, women out of the work force back to the kitchen pregnant – in fact constantly pregnant, men back into labour but with little pay, god rules the world, and a omnipotent ‘god emissary’ in form of the president that rules them all. Oh and money lots of money for the white male working class that makes up the Republican Party for the largest extend. And they have been working for this ever since the 60s. They have time, vote lockstep, while we are discussing how much damage they might do and if we could survive this damage.

                    In the meantime, the right creates new facts on the ground. Non so blind as those who don’t want to see.

                    • McFlock

                      Higher management is changed, down to under-secretaries. The ones who dictate the direction of your “middle managers”. 1200-1400 positions, apparently.

                      But before we start tearing our hair out at the imminent US coup d’etat, even most of the conservatives on SCOTUS would have issues with changing the term limit rule or changing the constitution to keep dolt45 in power. Sure, they might find some excuse to ignore the actual Florida result again, but that was bending the rules rather than outright breaking them.

                      Checks and balances.

      • gsays 12.1.2

        I would not be surprised to see Trump serve a second term.

        What the opposition looks like probably will not make a difference.

        • McFlock

          Maybe. But at least there’s a chance to hiff him in two years.

          And this time the resistance seems a lot more practical and effective than hippies clicking fingers in a park.

          • Im right

            Democrats are not helping their chances of winning 2020, they have a very vocal far left element that will frighten the middle voter (swing?) with this AOC promoting green deal. Getting rid of cars and air travel and having train use only, upgrading ALL buildings in USA to be environment friendly… In 10 years!😆. Now we all know this is a rough draft document and as such will be watered down so much as to be able to have certain aspects workable and some aspects quietly taken out the back and shot…. BUT the current Democrats who have said they will run for president have almost all agreed with the Green Plan as well as Medicare for all. THIS is what will hamstring Democrats from the 2020 presidency. Not saying they won’t win, but what should be a foregone conclusion will now be a closer race due to socialism!

            • Sam

              The only authority we have to go by as to the falididty of the claims you just made is a little smiley emoji. Got anything a bit more concrete?

            • left_forward

              AOC far left – hahaha!
              Oh no, not Medicare for all!!! Including the poor! Bloody socialists.
              Are you living in NZ with the benefits of our partly universal health service?

            • McFlock


              The reason the dems who are running have supported the green plan is because there are votes in it.

              The leftward tilt in the democrats is because rightwing dems got voted out.

              So the ones who can see themselves as president want a share of those votes, bacause the people the green plan alienate would rather vote for a racist, corrupt piece of shit and his sycophants than they would vote democrat.

        • left_forward

          Do your tea leaves tell you that America now much wiser to the lyin’, cheatin’, connin’, mysoginist, narcissitic, racist, corrupt, self-centred, treacherous gangster will make the same mistake twice?
          What can of tea are you drinking?

          • Im right

            Are you telling me you have not red the ‘green way’ document? All of the items in my post above ARE proposals (ideas only I agree), can I assume if National or Act came up with a similar document you guys on the left would not jump in boots n all and decry it? But it’s proposed by AOC so let’s just soft soap it! Pfffft

            • left_forward

              National and Act couldn’t possibly come up with such a visionary document – they are still denying the science of climate change FFS.

              So I guess you are saying that the lyin’, cheatin’, connin’, mysoginist, narcissitic, racist, corrupt, self-centred, treacherous gangster is a better option for Americans than an honest and caring leader, and one that is prepared to face and address the challenges that we all have ahead of us, wherever we live.

              And raspberries to you too!

          • gsays

            A couple of things left forward, I am not sure that your opinion of El Presidenta is shared universally among US voters.

            Yes, most media, social and otherwise, don’t have a high opinion of him.
            That’s called fake news dontyaknow.

            It was a homebrew cider rather than tea fueling that reckon.

            • left_forward

              It doesn’t need to be universal.
              Neither does it take too much discernment to work out which sources of information are deliberately short on the truth, fake if you prefer. More people by far in the US will make the right call on this, and contrary to your cidertalk, Trump will be gone in 2020 if not well before.

  13. Siobhan 13

    “WikiLeaks to publish more Hillary Clinton emails – Julian Assange”
    Headline, the Guardian, June 2016

    Date Trump found out…JULY…Trump was finding out exactly one month AFTER anyone reading the Guardian…ffs

    “Cohen promised in his opening testimony that he would discuss WikiLeaks.

    As I earlier stated, Mr. Trump knew from Roger Stone in advance about the WikiLeaks drop of emails. In July 2016, days before the Democratic convention, I was in Mr. Trump’s office when his secretary announced that Roger Stone was on the phone. Mr. Trump put Mr. Stone on the speakerphone. Mr. Stone told Mr. Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange and that Mr. Assange told Mr. Stone that, within a couple of days, there would be a massive dump of emails that would damage Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect of ‘wouldn’t that be great.’

    To keep saying ‘Trump knew in advance” is, BY OMISSION fake news.

    Its a sad day for a supposedly independent political blog to be complicit in this sort of nonsense.

    Fight the moron Trump with facts not ill conceived rantings from a known liar, being promoted by slightly more sophisticated liars, otherwise the battle is lost.

  14. greywarshark 14

    Hillary Clinton’s emails – will they result in a nickname for her of: Hilarious? Being laughed at is probably more damaging for a pollie than being dissed.

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