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Collins ducks the questions again

Written By: - Date published: 11:39 am, November 12th, 2013 - 22 comments
Categories: child abuse, Judith Collins, law, Metiria Turei, uncategorized - Tags:

In a wordy op-ed piece in today’s Herald, Judith Collins once again sidesteps the questions posed to her in Parliament last week on pre-trial and trial processes for sexual abuse cases by Jan Logie and Andrew Little. The Minister for No is now dead keen to be seen to be doing something, but takes a long time to say very little.

The two key question posed to her were whether she would look again at the Law Commission’s Inquiry into alternative court procedures, specifically a specialist sexual violence court and an alternative process for sexual offence cases; and to the same Commission’s recommendation that a judge may decide which questions should be presented to the victim in cases of sexual assault.

Collins avoided both issues today, as she did in Parliament last week. She reverted to her default position on the Inquiry that an inquisitorial approach to these cases would be a bridge too far for the judiciary and the law profession.

No doubt the questioners will try again in  Parliament today. Perhaps it would be wise for the Minister to take up the suggestion of Metiria Turei and join with the Minister of Police in setting up an all-party Parliamentary group to consider what is a complex issue.

One thing is absolutely clear; all wisdom does not reside in the mind of the Minister.


22 comments on “Collins ducks the questions again”

  1. greywarbler 1

    Probably everyone else has read this piece by barrister Catriona MacLennan but she is always good and really has something useful to say about the sexual attack matters.


    Police force fails NZ’s women … again
    Friday 9 November 2013
    But some charges the police could investigate laying are:
    • Section 128 Crimes Act 1961 – sexual violation.
    • Section 134 Crimes Act 1961 – sexual conduct with young person under 16.
    • Section 135 Crimes Act 1961 – indecent assault.
    • Section 194 Crimes Act 1961 – assault on a child.
    • Section 197 Crimes Act 1961 – disabling (stupefying).
    • Section 208 Crimes Act 1961 – detention without consent with intent to have sexual connection.
    • Section 216G – making an intimate visual recording (if pictures were taken).
    • Section 160 Sale of Liquor Act 1989 – purchasing or acquiring liquor with the intention of supplying it to a person under 18.

    The police failure to act in this situation once again undermines the trust of women in the New Zealand Police.
    How many additional young women have suffered sexual assaults in the past two years because the police failed to do their job?

    Something from September – Stop blaming the victims

    • weka 1.1

      Thanks Mike.

      And thanks Grey, that’s a great article. There is also this, for the people who want to know what can be done and why it is important to still focus on the offenders as well as other strategies –

      Here is a list of actions the police could have taken in response to the Roast Busters’ activities:

      1. Conduct a full investigation, rather than simply monitoring the situation.

      2. Contact Facebook and arrange for the page to be removed so the girls did not continue to be revictimised in cyberspace for two years.

      3. Act on the complaint laid by the 13-year-old woman two years ago and lay charges.

      4. Have Police Youth Aid visit the boys to warn them about their behaviour and explain the law.

      5. Visit the boys’ parents and speak to them.

      6. Visit the school and speak to the principal and have him or her speak to students to explain the law and the proper way to treat young women.

      7. Publicise the Roast Busters’ activity two years ago to put a stop to it.

      8. Meet young women in the local area to warn them about what was happening and teach them to keep themselves safe.

      9. Meet the parents of young women.

      10. Obtain search warrants and search the boys’ homes to check what evidence there is.

      • joe90 1.1.1

        Looks similar to the Differential Response Model.

      • Huginn 1.1.2

        11. A restraining order to stop the perpetrator re-victimising the 13 year old after she went to the police.

        12. A Family Group Conference (FGC).

        ‘The FGC lies at the heart of the youth justice system, which has a dual focus on accountability and rehabilitation. An FGC involves the child or young person, his or her advocate (where one has been arranged), family/whänau or family group members, the victim(s) or their representative, the Police and the Youth Justice Coordinator (YJC). The role of the FGC is to hold young people accountable for their offending and encourage them to take responsibility for their behaviour. FGCs for child offenders will also focus on care or protection issues present and family/whänau issues contributing to the offending. To this end, the FGC formulates a plan for the child or young person making recommendations as it sees fit (which, for young persons, may include prosecution). Common elements of FGC plans include an apology, reparation, work for the victim or community, a donation to charity, curfews, counselling or training programmes. The FGC may also recommend that proceedings be discontinued or that a formal Police caution be issued.

        • RedBaronCv

          I don’t know that a FGC would be much good here. Where did the kids get their attitudes from – possibly relatives?

          • Rogue Trooper

            lol, and I reviewed the FGC legislation (Butterworths ref etc) and outcomes in a Community Psych paper at uni; sadly, it has it’s critics, Mick Brown for example.

  2. weka 2

    Just picked this up from the RSS feed from Tumeke

    Is that what the PM said at his post-cab presser yesterday afternoon? Sounded like he was saying either he or the police think there is some ambiguity around whether a gang of older boys is drugging and raping 13-15 year olds is ‘truly rape’. It was rape question mark.


    Did anyone hear that?

  3. Chris 3

    Just an aside to this issue…

    Operation “Clover”. You have to wonder if anyone gives serious thought to the names they give these operations.

    Anyone + 40 will remember the song “Roll me over in the Clover” and if you don’t a small sample of the lyrics…

    I took me trousers down
    As we lay upon the ground.
    Roll me over, lay me down and do it again

  4. weka 4

    Here’s why you don’t focus on what women are wearing or drinking.

    Trigger warning for details of rape.

    The woman said she was attacked after going to a party in West Auckland. She was handed a beer as soon as she arrived and she believes the beer was spiked with the date-rape drug Rohypnol.

    Her next memory was slumped on the toilet with her jeans down and two guys pulling her on to the floor. “I remember being all floppy and saying ‘no’ and trying to push them away but not having any strength,” she said.

    One after the other the men filed in, she said, taking turns to rape her. She was later told photos were taken.

    The next morning she woke up naked, in bed, next to a man she did not know. “He told me he had saved me, he found me some clothes and then drove me home.

    “I had bruises on my arms where I had been held and bruising and a bump on the back of my head, I was sore and I knew I had been raped.”

    She told her flatmates about her ordeal and was shocked with their lack of concern. “They basically asked me ‘what did you expect’?”

    The woman figured she’d get a similar response from police, so she never laid a complaint. “I was scared they’d say ‘what were you drinking, what were you wearing?’ I just wanted to forget it.


    My emphasis. It’s also why you can’t run the “she put herself at risk” argument, unless you think that women now need chaparones to go to parties.

    • greywarbler 4.1

      You may be right. Perhaps women should stop going to parties. Things have got pretty bad when this sort of thing can happen. Where is the fun, and who would be there that you would want to meet? Such parties are just not friendly places. Why were the people she lives with so callous? Is there no-one out there who has any caring friendly feeling for others?
      It would be sad if that were so today and you have to live amongst virtual strangers, geographically close but not relating as friendly humans.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1

        It would be sad if that were so today and you have to live amongst virtual strangers, geographically close but not relating as friendly humans.

        That one was 20 years ago. IMO, it’s just the same today if not worse:

        During her short call, Carol told Plunket how she had been sexually abused and explained that without having counselling available to her it had damaged her self-worth.

        She then went on to tell Plunket that her daughter had been sexually abused as a child by her former partner.

        Plunket then told the woman the story was fabricated and called her a “moron”. He then cut her off.

        • Rogue Trooper

          Oh Dear. Sean, it may have been better for everybody if you had taken up gardening in your retirement .

          ps. this is just the beginning of ‘rape’ revelations, particularly those carried out by, now , adult men. 😎
          Still, it is gonna be a torturous road.

        • Colonial Viper

          That’s extremely frickin crappy of Sean Plunket. And even if he sincerely suspected that he wasn’t being given the whole truth, he could have managed it very differently.

        • Huginn

          I once heard Leighton Smith tell a woman who complained that she had caught her partner’s friend molesting her little girl NOT to go to the police.

    • Huginn 4.2

      In many situations it is good manners to let a woman open her own drink or at least to let her see you pour it.

  5. Tracey 5

    So collins without a hint of a smile said she is taking sexual assault seriously… only an hour or two after her pm refused to fund rape prevention education in all high schools.

    20m to uncovered scf foreign investors
    30m to rio tinto
    20m to warners

  6. Tracey 6


    sadly her story is just the tip…

    I hope many will march this weekend to show victims they have support out here.

    already the pm is behaving as tho it will all blow over. Sadly he is probably right and it will leave the public consciousness.

    As for behaviour… he needs to be very careful what he says about parents and boys needing to grow up.0 Auckland is small and kings and auckland grammar students past and present socialise together… their are no secrets.

  7. Tracey 7

    ” It is a very delicate balance and we have got to make sure that that balance is held in the right place.”Asked about rape prevention education he said the Government was taking advice on where it might go next on the whole issue.”All I’m saying is that in that whole area, it’s a delicate area that we need to feel our way through carefully.”

    I presume he means poll the public and talk to pr people cos rape prevention education is running courses in south auckland in high schools. Perhaps he should attend one?

    Sounds like hes scared to offend mr craigs sensibilities while he courts him

    • Rogue Trooper 7.1

      *snap* Tracey (oh how I was smitten by Tracey P., yet, I digress) (she was a nurse, now she is a teacher), anyway,
      Key [on rape prevention education] “All I’m saying is that, in that whole area, it’s a delicate area that we need to feel our way through carefully”.


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