Crazy Corbyn?

Written By: - Date published: 7:11 am, September 3rd, 2015 - 88 comments
Categories: accountability, journalism, making shit up, uk politics, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: , ,

Jeremy Corbyn’s popularity in the UK Labour leadership race has the political establishment in a tizzy. So of course, out come the dirty tactics. Private Eye has done a great job of showing up one of these…

corbyn-misquoted

88 comments on “Crazy Corbyn? ”

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  1. North 1
    3 September 2015 at 7:22 am

    The Herald must be consulting for these people in the UK……consider the headlining over Trev’s article in the Herald yesterday. Voting in the first flag referendum as one freely determines one will…….wow!……that’s engaging ‘gerrymander’ according to the Herald ??????

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1
      3 September 2015 at 11:13 am

      The Herald must be consulting for these people in the UK…

      More likely that they’re all owned by the same people and those people are calling the shots.

  2. Peter 2
    3 September 2015 at 7:28 am

    …… great article …. this should be a weekly Standard feature on our NZ MSM headlines.

    • greywarshark 2.1
      3 September 2015 at 12:20 pm

      Thanks Private Eye for putting this together fascinating reading. And thanks for Notices and Features for making it public here. Very instructive on the media.

      I saw something on the radionz web site about a drift towards colouring in for adults. It must be a deep set need by adults to have clear definitions, boundaries for once, after sampling the fudgy, sticky media once too often.

    • Brillo 2.2
      3 September 2015 at 1:06 pm

      Agree 100%.
      Who will volunteer to do it?

  3. Lara 3
    3 September 2015 at 7:31 am

    Interesting. So quantitative easing where money flows into the financial sector is okay, but QE where money flows into infrastructure would turn a country that tried it into Zimbabwe. Oooookaaaay……

    Does not compute.

    • David 3.1
      3 September 2015 at 9:05 am

      That’s because you have basic misunderstanding of how QE works. In effect, QE reduces interest rates and is reversible, pumping printed money into infrastructure is not reversible and will most certainly generate inflation. Use too much of it and you are walking the same road as Zimbabwe.

      • Lara 3.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 9:13 am

        I thought interest rates were set by the Fed in the US and the RBNZ in NZ.

        So where does the money go? It’s been created, and it goes where?

        It’s gone into the financial sector. It’s probably what’s been propping up the US stock markets for the last several years.

        It’s reversible how? Once the money is created and given how is it reversed? Taken back? I understand that it’s created as debt and when the debt is repaid it essentially ceases to exist. Is this what you mean by reversible?

        So if you tell me I have a basic misunderstanding of how QE works I would appreciate you being more specific on what you think this misunderstanding is. You’ve stated QE reduces interest rates, by my contention is that interest rates are set by central banks with our without QE, so if I’m missing something there I’d actually genuinely appreciate elucidation.

          • maui 3.1.1.1.1
            3 September 2015 at 10:44 am

            Quantitative easing (QE) is an unconventional form of monetary policy where a Central Bank creates new money electronically to buy financial assets, like government bonds.

            In other words this is an incredibly dodgy methodology that is exactly like creating money out of thin air for private banks to invest in the housing market and the stock market, all of which pushes prices of these items up, which means it is inflationary. It inflates the housing and stock bubbles (the exclusive part) in the economy that can only end up crashing. Meanwhile spending in the real economy is largely unchanged.

            • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1.1
              3 September 2015 at 11:19 am

              +1

              That’s it exactly. The present form of QE is creating even more problems that can’t actually be addressed while the form that Corbyn suggests won’t cause any problems at all – except that people would be employed and thus the private sector wouldn’t be able to force wages down as they’ve been doing.

              • greywarshark …
                4 September 2015 at 6:53 pm

                I just remembered reading a novel about the start of the iron working in the Industrial Revolution in Brit. The large companies taking this ground breaking venture forward were in the hands of Quakers. That is an interesting fact. Quakers, deeply religious, but not too spiritual to get money together to invest.

            • David 3.1.1.1.1.2
              3 September 2015 at 3:48 pm

              “incredibly dodgy methodology that is exactly like creating money out of thin air ”

              All money is created out of thin air.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                3 September 2015 at 6:42 pm

                So, what exactly was your complaint about the government creating the money and spending it?

                • David …
                  3 September 2015 at 7:16 pm

                  Well, just for a giggle I’d love to see what happens if Corbyn gets a go at this idea. Lucky I can lol from a distance.

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    3 September 2015 at 9:35 pm

                    Ah, so you’re saying that you don’t have problem and are just parroting off without an argument.

          • Lara 3.1.1.1.2
            3 September 2015 at 4:19 pm

            So I’ve just read a doc on the Bank of England site, Quarterly Bulletin: design, operation and impact (of QE).

            I see how they expected QE to increase interest rates and inflation. But nowhere in that document does it explain how it’s “reversible”. But then I do know that the Bank of England has admitted that new money is created when banks make loans, and that when loans are repaid that money effectively ceases to exist. So yeah, I understand how it’s reversible.

            But nowhere on their website, in that document or in your comment is an explanation of why QE (pumping money into the financial sector) is only mildly inflationary (and lets be honest here, the inflation was minimal, and it required trillions of dollars to achieve it) and yet pumping money into the productive sector (as opposed to the financial sector) by employing people to build infrastructure would lead to runaway inflation aka Zimbabwe.

            I don’t think conditions in the USA or Britain are equivalent in any way to Zimbabwe.

            Did you know that creating new money out of thin air and using it to employ returned servicemen after WWII was exactly how the government of the day in NZ built our state housing stock? That wasn’t inflationary. In fact, it led to the most prosperous period in NZ’s history.

      • greywarshark 3.1.2
        3 September 2015 at 10:31 am

        David
        That sounds glib. I don’t think you know what you are talking about. If so please quote textbook date of publication, author and chapter and page number.

        As I understand it, QE put into infrastructure would not create inflation because it is providing something that is not of a consumer nature and therefore not encouraging more spending and production on non-durable products.

        The Bank of England doesn’t have much to say about useful things for the country that can arise from QE, it seems just a way of putting money in and taking it out to control the inflation rate target wthich is 2%. A low inflation rate that is more important than having a country working and people able to live and be happy. It is acting to bring in post WW2 austerity again. Great BOE.

      • half crown 3.1.3
        3 September 2015 at 10:50 am

        “and is reversible,”

        So when can we expect the bankers to pay back the massive bonuses they got?

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.4
        3 September 2015 at 11:15 am

        It seems that you’re the one with the basic misunderstanding. If one form of QE is reversible then so is the other.

        Of course, the QE that is presently artificially inflating stock markets and house prices won’t be reversed as a few people are getting rich out of it.

      • Colonial Viper 3.1.5
        3 September 2015 at 6:03 pm

        In effect, QE reduces interest rates and is reversible, pumping printed money into infrastructure is not reversible and will most certainly generate inflation.

        BULLSHIT
        BULLSHIT
        BULLSHIT

        eg. issuing credit to build many more houses will cause house prices to fall as supply goes up. No inflation. In fact you will get asset price deflation. That’s how the Labour Govt did it in the 30’s and 40’s.

        And of course they will NEVER “reverse” QE and go into money tightening because the bankers have fucked the markets and they cannot afford to.

  4. Clemgeopin 4
    3 September 2015 at 8:20 am

    Corbyn…What a great leader!

    • greywarshark 4.1
      3 September 2015 at 12:11 pm

      Matthew Parrish UK radionz correspondent said this morning that Corbyn came over with refreshing integrity or the like. And I thought he had pinned it.

  5. fisiani 5
    3 September 2015 at 9:24 am

    Corbyn is just a symptom of the increasing irrelevancy of the Centre Left worldwide in the 21st century. Labour in New Zealand could learn from this and elect a potential winner like Kelvin Davis or Stuart Nash as leader but given the fact that caucus no longer chooses the leader it looks like they are doomed to be in Opposition in 2017,2020 and 2023. So many assume that the old pendulum principle still applies and that the public will eventually give the other side a chance to govern. Given the roaring success in every area of life we have had 2008-15 and with economic growth predicted to exceed 2% and our inward migration booming, housing construction aplenty, record employment levels and educational reforms I see no evidence of any popular surge to the Far Left other than here. The Greens have never been in government ever and Labour have no right to be a government. Oh well. The next Roy Morgan might raise a few spirits for a few days.

    • les 5.1
      3 September 2015 at 9:32 am

      what actual policies has the National govt implemented that have directly contributed to ‘the roaring success in every area of life we have had 2008-15 ‘?

    • weka 5.2
      3 September 2015 at 9:55 am

      “I see no evidence of any popular surge to the Far Left other than here.”

      None so blind as those that won’t look. Try Bill’s posts on Scotland for a very obvious example.

      • fisiani 5.2.1
        3 September 2015 at 10:40 am

        The SNP are not a part of the British government. You confuse seats with support for Far Left. Carry on with your delusion. I was in Scotland last week and there is no evidence of any Far Left policies affecting the people despite the SNP being in power for years in the Scottish Parliament. The collapse in support for Scottish Labour had to go somewhere. That is not the same as a popular lurch to the Left. Please keep on believing that is so. This is classical Corbynmania. It will soon appear in the DSM.

        • weka 5.2.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 10:45 am

          well of course you are going to say that. You will say that no matter what the evidence. Bill has covered this in his post, what the left wong policies are of the SNP, enacted in Scotland.

          Support for Corbyn wihin UK Labour would be another example.

    • Detrie 5.3
      3 September 2015 at 9:59 am

      The fact that most people [sheep] here tend to vote on personalities, not their policies doesn’t help. And labour NZ is still a centrist partly not providing a clear alternative to national. Things will have to get much worse here economically and socially, before we get another labour government. A fourth term national government is very likely.

      • David 5.3.1
        3 September 2015 at 10:21 am

        If people here are [sheep], why do you have such a hard time convincing them to vote the way you want them too?

        • maui 5.3.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 10:32 am

          Detrie doesn’t have large scale media supporting her or the establishment, kinda makes things difficult…

    • Draco T Bastard 5.4
      3 September 2015 at 11:22 am

      Corbyn is just a symptom of the increasing irrelevancy of the Centre Left worldwide in the 21st century.

      Actually, Corbyn and those of us who think like him are a result of 30+ years of the failure of RWNJ policies. We now know that such policies don’t work and are really designed to enrich the few at everyone else’s expense and so we’re looking for better ways to do things.

      • Clemgeopin 5.4.1
        3 September 2015 at 11:31 am

        +1

        Only clever crooks and stupid fools support the right wing pro-wealthy, pro corporate, anti-worker, anti-family and anti-environmental policies.

        • greywarshark 5.4.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 6:07 pm

          You missed an important group = the complacent, they are not stupid though they are fools. They have got everything right for themselves, and don’t want to take on other people’s problems. And yes they are pro-wealthy.

          And hunger, homelessness, that is not in their purview. Lack of opportunity – get education, go and look for a job, keep at it you will get there. The unsolvable macro problem can be fixed by one person succeeding in their eyes, or the problem is personified by the one failure they see on tv. They constantly see the particular and ignore the general.

    • Clemgeopin 5.5
      3 September 2015 at 11:23 am

      The post is about the dirty politics, LIES and misrepresentations indulged in by the media and the RW towards Corbyn. You are doing exactly that here by hijacking the post rather than addressing the real issue of the points made in the post. The post is NOT about Corbyn but about the misinformation/lies/distortions done by the MSM on his actual statements. Did you not understand what the post is about?

  6. Glenn 6
    3 September 2015 at 9:51 am

    The Daily Mail had a piece vilifying Corbyn over what he may have said about the killing of Bin Laden a couple of days ago. Nothing unusual there in that conservative rag but what was unusual was the comments section where over 95% of the comments were supportive of Corbyn and very critical of the paper running him down.

  7. The lost sheep 7
    3 September 2015 at 11:40 am

    Even if you’re not a fan of Corbysocialism specifically, you’ve got admire what is happening with U.K. Labour.
    Clearly, a section of the population have decided that for their interests to be represented, the political dynamic of The Left must change.
    So they have organised, formed a plan, and executed it brilliantly.
    It’s just great to see that at least some portion of the Left have grasped the concept that you can’t just keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
    So more power to them. Even if this change turns out not to be the right one, once they have broken the inertia and got the ball rolling all sorts of options are likely to spring out of the flux.

    So. The big question.
    What are the chances of something similar occurring in NZ?

    I can’t see any difficulty.
    The Far Left Networks could easily organise for large scale membership recruitment to the Labour Party, and you’d only need about 20,000 new members to control the Party Member vote….
    And then the balance of power would lie with The Unions, who you would think would favour a jump Left?
    And you’d quickly have the Old School Centrists outflanked and playing the stunned Mullet just like their equivalents in the UK. .

    Honestly, I’d love to see our tired old grey suited political landscape get some kind of kick up the arse. It really is painfully dull at the moment.

    • Bill 7.1
      3 September 2015 at 11:54 am

      So. The big question.
      What are the chances of something similar occurring in NZ?

      I’ve thought about this and…didn’t come up with a comfortable answer. Messily put…

      In the case of Scotland, a major party that could take the ground abandoned by Labour already existed (The SNP). In England and Wales, due to the fpp electoral system, a sizable genuine left wing remained within the Labour Party. (Corbyn was first elected in the 80s)

      In NZ, there is no existing major party that can step onto the ground abandoned by Labour and no (as far as I know) sizable and solid left wing component to NZ Labour.

      Labour contributed to the demise of a fairly nascent Mana Party as well as others. And when there was ideological differences in NZ Labour, NZ Labour split and the break away party withered.

      The Greens can be said to sit to the left of Labour, but I’d say that they are currently to the right of where Labour ought to be positioned. Said it before. NZ politics will just belatedly bob along in the wash of any new international political consensus that emerges on the left.

      • The lost sheep 7.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 12:07 pm

        “In NZ, there is no existing major party that can step onto the ground abandoned by Labour”

        Only Labour itself? The vehicle that already exists.
        All you need to do is find 20,000 people who want to have a major platform for a Far Left Political platform, and carjack it.
        That is exactly what has happened in the UK?

        • weka 7.1.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 12:23 pm

          NZ Labour doesn’t have Corbyn. Nor does it have an SNP to wake Labour up via elections.

          If NZ left wing voters had the sense, they’d vote GP. If the GP were sitting on 20% and starting to get electorate seats by now, we’d be in a different situation. Too many times I’ve seen left wing people at elections either waste their vote (IMP etc) or vote Labour out of fear.

          I also think that there is no UK equivalent of the 1980s betrayal of NZ by the Labour party. We still haven’t recovered from that. It will take a lot more in NZ to get people starting to trust Labour again. Little unfortunately isn’t inspiring confidence that anything much is going to change. He’s doing some good things for sure, but ultimately I don’t see how the next election will be that much different than the last. This doesn’t mean National will get a 4th term, but I doubt we will end up with an actual left wing, socialist govt.

        • Bill 7.1.1.2
          3 September 2015 at 12:29 pm

          That is exactly what has happened in the UK?

          Well no. There was a contender for the leadership who came from the left of the party – an internal left that I’m thinking doesn’t exist within NZ Labour.

          After Corbyn stood and people heard what he had to say, people paid to take part in the election. That can’t happen in NZ.

          First up, in NZ, there is no ‘supporter’ levy (only members can vote). There is also a cut-off date for voter eligibility that would pre-empt any Corbyn type scenario. Then, in NZ, a single MPs vote counts the equivalent of (potentially) thousands of ordinary members votes (the 25%, or whatever it is, weighting of caucus) whereas in the UK an MPs vote only counts as one vote.

          • The lost sheep 7.1.1.2.1
            3 September 2015 at 12:54 pm

            So to sum up, you don’t think the NZ Left is capable of instigating change?

            That’s not much of a vote of confidence eh, and it does make me wonder why the average voter would have any confidence in the effectiveness of the Left if someone like you doesn’t?

            Surely there’s a bit more spark going than that!

            • Bill 7.1.1.2.1.1
              3 September 2015 at 1:37 pm

              Not quite. The summation would have been more accurate if it said ‘NZ Parliamentary Left’ in place of ‘NZ Left’.

              For me, it’s always been a case of affecting change beyond the bounds of the social democratic parliamentary sphere. Their only part – I say ‘only’, but it’s not minor – is to be ‘on to it enough’ to create the spaces where change can then occur.

              That aside, I thought the discussion was about the likelihood of parliamentary politics taking a turn in tune with developments in the UK Labour Party or with the more broadly based political developments in Scotland?

              • weka …
                3 September 2015 at 1:44 pm

                would it be fair to say that the changes in the UK and Scotland are to do with the broader left but it just looks like a parliamentary thing because of distance and we don’t see what the people are doing? Or do you think in both, or either situation it was party or MP/staffer driven?

                • Bill …
                  3 September 2015 at 2:10 pm

                  Well, the independence referendum came about because the SNP had it as a commitment in their Holyrood election manifesto. So they were forced into a corner when they unexpectedly won an overall majority in an electoral system that was geared to prevent majorities.

                  Alongside that, they had already moved to occupy the ground abandoned by a Blairite UK Labour.

                  Referendum comes along and people engage, meaning that the broader left got energised. After that, people just didn’t go home.

                  With UK Labour it’s been an internal fuck up by the party (its dogs dinner of a democratic process) that’s resulted in Corbyn having a punt at leader and resulted in a cross section of the population in England and Wales ‘waking up’ – getting energised, enthusiatic and engaged. I don’t think it’s too dissimilar to what happened in Scotland.

                  In both cases it came about as an unintended consequence of parliamentary processes. I just can’t see the parliamentary vehicles people would/could hitch their hopes to and that would smash through any parliamentary fuck up in NZ . Where is the anti-austerity (anti- neoliberal) party or figure or the principled left parties or figure?

                  • Jeremy …
                    3 September 2015 at 3:41 pm

                    Where is the anti-austerity (anti- neoliberal) party or figure or the principled left parties or figure?

                    Currently outside parliament, having lost Te Tai Tokerau.

                    • weka …
                      3 September 2015 at 4:46 pm

                      The GP are still there.

                    • greywarshark …
                      3 September 2015 at 4:55 pm

                      Have you lost your way Jeremy? What is the name of the person you are fumbling for? And do they live in Te Tai Tokerau. You seem confused. Which way did you come in? We can help you out.

                    • Bill …
                      3 September 2015 at 6:16 pm

                      Indeed. And that means NZ is kinda screwed with regards emulating the road map presented by the UK and/or countries within it.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      3 September 2015 at 7:17 pm

                      Which suits Tory Labour just fine.

                • The lost sheep …
                  3 September 2015 at 2:15 pm

                  If the sudden rapid and huge influx to Labour Party membership in the UK is the evidence Weka….then it looks to be the broader left outside of the current political structure seeking to drive change?
                  But the crucial point is Bill, that they are specifically targeting Parliamentary Politics as a vehicle for change.
                  This seems a perfectly sensible tactic to me. From what ‘space’ could you more rapidly and effectively create change than from the position of being in Government?

                  I have seen much comment that the ‘broader left’ moving into UK Labour contains many people who were active supporters of the Occupy movement, and I think it entirely possible those people have gone away and thought about the degree of change Occupy thought it could accomplish in it’s early days, and yet how little it did actually change in the end….and so the movement is now aligning around a new tactic in the hope it will be more effective in achieving change?

                  And I still don’t see why something similar would not be a completely valid and possible tactic here in NZ?
                  If it’s not that then what is the plan for the Left?
                  FFS, something needs to change the current dynamic.

                  • Bill …
                    3 September 2015 at 6:25 pm

                    I think a lot of people are targeting parliamentary parties, not for change, but to get some relief and maybe also in the hope that the space I talk of opens up.

                    I’d suspect if the space doesn’t appear, then they will push for it.

                    If they were just looking for, or hoping for enough change to come from parliament then, for example, the people in Scotland would have gone off home after the referendum. That they didn’t, indicates to me a rejuvenation of politics at the grassroots.

                    It’s not an ‘either/or’ type scenario – more a recognition of the limitations inherent to some vehicles for change and the need for a generally more sympathetic environment so that the other (extra-parliamentary) stuff can get traction.

  8. Alan W 8
    3 September 2015 at 12:01 pm

    um, isn’t that what Labour NZ has now, a union appointed leader?????

  9. RingoStarck 9
    3 September 2015 at 12:46 pm

    With an overtly socialist leader we at least stand to gain back the GreenGround.

  10. Brillo 10
    3 September 2015 at 1:19 pm

    It’s worth noting that the DomPost gets much of its UK news and some of its lifestyle and general features reprinted directly from the Telegraph – which features so strongly in these misrepresentations here.

    For further entertainment, Google the Barclay brothers who own the Telegraph. For irrelevant fun, try to find a photo of the formerly very famous wife of one of them – he tried to buy up every photo of her on the internet.

    • swordfish 10.1
      3 September 2015 at 1:37 pm

      Yep, the Dom Post largely relies on the right-wing Telegraph Group and Rupert Murdoch’s The Times for its international coverage and, above all, Op-Ed Opinion Pieces. Hence, the Dan Hodges crap on Corbyn in yesterday’s edition.

      Wellington is one of the most politically progressive, Left-leaning places in the Country (second only to Dunedin in its Left Bloc vote) and yet we’re stuck with newspaper opinion on international affairs that is well to the Right of what you’d find in The Herald and far less diverse.

  11. swordfish 11
    3 September 2015 at 2:07 pm

    And yet, despite all the caricature and misrepresentation and demonization, the tidal wave of Corbymania just continues to sweep relentlessly through the UK.

    Here’s a tweet from the BBC’s Economics Editor on the fervour in the East Anglian city of Chelmsford, a Tory stronghold since 1950 (Tory majority 2015: 18,000) …..

    Tory Chelmsford's main theatre. There is overflow in bar and people are asking for returns. Something is going on pic.twitter.com/ymQgL6duau— Robert Peston (@Peston) September 2, 2015

  12. Wayne 12
    3 September 2015 at 4:24 pm

    I think the Corbyn effect should be laboratory tested in New Zealand.

    New Zealand is not Greece, but a country that at least on OECD measures is doing moderately well. So we will know if the Corbyn effect has real appeal in New Zealand, and other similar countries in circumstances other than crisis.

    NZ Labour should therefore adopt all the Corbyn policies, themes and political rhetoric (adapted of course for New Zealand conditions), and test run them for the 2017 election. It will require real discipline by Labour MP’s. They all have to sign up for this test. No wimping out and going to dinners for charters schools. And no cozy dinners with CEO’s and private boxes at Eden Park.

    The next election is only two years away, so if the Corbyn effect is real, then it can be implemented by an incoming Labour led government in just two more years. Conversely if it is not real, then Labour only has to wait till 2020 to have a more appealing programme.

    Of course Labour (and Standardnistas) will have to put up with the swingeing attacks on them from the Nats, and their tame friends in the MSM. Cam Slater and David Farrar will have a field day.

    But that is to be expected; it is all part of the Lab test. After all, the Corbyn effect has to be able to triumph against a vicious Crosby Textor campaign.

    My only questions:

    Does NZ Labour have the courage to run such a campaign?

    Or will they sell out to third wayism?

    • miravox 12.1
      3 September 2015 at 4:42 pm

      “I think the Corbyn effect should be laboratory tested in New Zealand.”

      I’m trying to think of the person who is as genuine in such “policies, themes and political rhetoric” as Corbyn to front them. Because that’s the bit of the Corbyn effect you missed in your imagined laboratory test.

      • Chris 12.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 5:18 pm

        Steve Maharey?

        • miravox 12.1.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 6:54 pm

          I’m not sure he has the down-to-earth touch. Would be good if he did. In any event, he’d have to be discounted due to no longer being in parliament.

          • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1
            3 September 2015 at 7:15 pm

            Maharey ain’t the right guy for this any more; maybe 20 years ago. No way would he go back into Parliamentary politics.

            • swordfish 12.1.1.1.1.1
              3 September 2015 at 7:36 pm

              He used to be touted as a future figurehead of Labour’s Left. But, apart from an apparent tendency towards pointless, pleasant-sounding waffle, (after conversing with him for half an hour, people would apparently come out none the wiser), he was also known to speak very fondly of the Blairite ‘Third Way’.

              Maharey aint no Corbyn. Never was.

              • Grant …
                3 September 2015 at 7:55 pm

                “Maharey aint no Corbyn. Never was.”

                Never a truer word was spoke.

              • Chris …
                3 September 2015 at 10:42 pm

                Yeah, I know he was into blairite third way, but so were a lot of us at the time. It was only when the neo-liberal underpinnings were properly exposed that things became clearer. I think Maharey was duped by the initial rhetoric but quickly saw it for what it was. There were obvious reasons why Maharey left politics but I think his disillusionment with Labour’s social policy direction was more significant a reason than many think.

            • Chris 12.1.1.1.1.2
              3 September 2015 at 10:35 pm

              Yes, I agree he wouldn’t go back into parliamentary politics. But if he did, would he be the right guy?

    • Olwyn 12.2
      3 September 2015 at 5:16 pm

      I think the Corbyn effect should be laboratory tested in New Zealand.

      What is significant about the Corbyn effect is that it has come from the grass roots up rather than in the form of a top down experiment. Corbyn was included in the leadership ballot with amused disdain, so that no one could complain that there was no left wing presence. And it has turned out that people were hungry for what he had to offer. You never know Wayne – it is not the case that everyone worth bothering about is now happily middle class, and you too could find yourself taken by surprise.

      • The lost sheep 12.2.1
        3 September 2015 at 7:09 pm

        There are lots of old school Socialists in the UK, and most of them attract diddly squat attention.
        The crucial difference with Corbyn is that he may become leader of the Labour Party.
        It is the power of that long established major ‘brand’ that makes him such a potent force.
        Without Labour he would be insignificant.

        As Weka pointed out, Hone is a Corbyn-like figure here in Aotearoa. So yeah, ho hum. But if he rejoined the Labour Party and 30,000 Far Left supporters joined the Party in order to push for his leadership?
        That would generate some interest I’m picking.

        But anyway, as far as NZ is concerned, I have a wee feeling that all the ‘Corbynist’ fervour is a touch vicarious.
        I’m willing to bet that we continue to have many discussions about it here on TS, but the one discussion that will not fly is the one about actually replicating something similar here in Aotearoa….

        • weka 12.2.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 8:04 pm

          It wasn’t me that said that.

          One distinguishing feature of Corbyn is that he’s been part of UK Labour for a long time and has always been left wing (as far as I can tell). We simply don’t have anyone like that in NZ.

          “I’m willing to bet that we continue to have many discussions about it here on TS, but the one discussion that will not fly is the one about actually replicating something similar here in Aotearoa”

          Not sure where you have been, but we’ve been having those conversations already. It’s not about replicating (as has been pointed out there are very good reasons for why it’s not happening here), it’s about finding the NZ equivalent. From reading Bill’s posts and comments thing thing I understand about Scotland is that there was a cause that untited people and repoliticised them (and I assume that the shift in the UK Labour is a result of that). So what’s the issue in NZ?

        • Draco T Bastard 12.2.1.2
          3 September 2015 at 9:51 pm

          As Weka pointed out, Hone is a Corbyn-like figure here in Aotearoa.

          Not really. He’s got a few similar views but I think you’ll find that Hone is far more authoritarian than Corbyn and that puts people off.

    • RedBaronCV 12.3
      3 September 2015 at 7:35 pm

      Thinking of some one like say “David Cunliffe”, that looked like he attracted a smear campaign here? But then smear campaigns are looking like what the right in the UK is most interested in – panic setting in is it??

  13. swordfish 13
    3 September 2015 at 7:28 pm

    (Reply to The lost sheep with the unsightly dags)

    Ah, right. So Corbyn’s on target to win the leadership because a whole lot of “Far Left” supporters have just joined the UK Labour Party in some sort of ‘Entryist’ conspiracy ?

    Putting aside the fact that most of the people enthused by Corbyn are of a decidedly social democratic disposition, the fact is polls suggest Corbyn is on course to win not only among newly signed up supporters and affiliates but also among the pre-2015 membership.

    Hone is a Corbyn-like figure ?

    Bollocks, nowhere near as likely to scare the horses as Hone.

    • The lost sheep 13.1
      3 September 2015 at 9:03 pm

      Labour had already uncovered evidence of infiltration by members of hard left groups who oppose the party, such as the Trade Union and Socialist Coalition….
      Labour has confirmed that 65,000 of its 275,000 full members joined since the general election. Another 35,000 have paid £3 to become registered supporters, which gives them a leadership vote. A further 35,000 trade union members have signed up as affiliated supporters. It is understood another 20,000 members have joined since these figures were released – including 7,000 over the weekend before last.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-100-green-party-candidates-have-joined-party-in-latest-evidence-of-entryism-10441692.html

      • swordfish 13.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 9:43 pm

        Just to be clear:

        We’re talking about 200 Greens and some very minor “infiltration” by members of a Left group (37 members of the Trade Union and Socialist Coalition). Along with 13 Tories, 7 Ukip supporters and 1 bloke from the BNP.

        The final 5 lines of your quote have nothing to do with entryism. They simply set out the huge influx of post-May 2015 members and supporters, most of them enthused by Corbyn (although the other 3 candidates collectively receive a-by-no-means-paltry
        40-ish % amongst them as well). In case you haven’t noticed, a tidal wave of Corbymania has just swept through Britain, mobilising and re-energising tens of thousands of previously-dispirited traditional labourites and social democrats.

        Meanwhile, as I said, you’re very conveniently ignoring the fact that polls suggest Corbyn is also winning among the Pre-2015 Labour Party membership.

  14. Wayne 14
    3 September 2015 at 7:34 pm

    Realistically it has to be Andrew Little who runs with this experiment. He needs an obviously radical Deputy Leader.
    I don’t really mind if he succeeds, after all in NZ political mistakes can be corrected in just three years. And if it is a great success as per 1935, well, Labour gets re-elected.

    • weka 14.1
      3 September 2015 at 8:13 pm

      I reckon Little would work, which begs the question of why he is not doing it.

      • The lost sheep 14.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 9:01 pm

        Good question. Why not?

        And regarding the discussions about ‘finding the NZ equivalent’, what progress has been made? I seem to have missed that.

  15. newsense 15
    4 September 2015 at 1:14 am

    Would have to be a Labour electorate MP with 30 years of community activism, Wayne. Short on the ground.

    Thing is though, UK Labour is trying to deal with the odious and smarmy legacy of the Iraq war and Bush.

    In NZ Helen Clark was a long serving and mostly very moral politician who kept us well clear. She was fairly clear on sport and politics and where she was in 1981.

    Peters perhaps is another analogue for the protest and long serving vote.

    If anything it is the National party who are struggling with message diScipline and marketing hype (well done) v. genuine and sincere opinions.

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